The Abrams in War Thunder has a MASSIVE problem... - M1A2 SEP V2 in War Thunder

War Thunder nerfed the Abrams in a way that really doesn't make sense. So, Is The M1A2 Abrams Is So OP that Gaijin Had To 'Nerf' It? Or is it just a really weird way of somehow balancing War Thunder? Let's find out!
↓ Social Links ↓
➤ Twitch: / panzerpaw
➤ Twitter: / panzerpaw
➤ Discord: / discord
---

[@Kwisss]

The biggest issues with it besides DU armor is the neck armor being only 50 mm when its about 250 mm LOS (this issue was addressed in a bug report) and how loud the Abrams is when in reality you hear the tracks first before the tank itself from a distance.

[@williamt.sherman2573]

you good ol' Americans yappin bout armor issues on your beloved patriotic Abrams is hella funny. One hand busy with cheeseburgers, the other hand firing off angry replies to the snake and leakin government documents lmfao. murica mains be tilted brooo 💀💀💀💀

[@hunter_0221]

I don't know about turbine engines, but I can say with utmost certainty that you will hear a Leopard's engine way before you hear the tracks, believe me. I genuinely don't believe that the Abrams would be any different. In fact, War Thunder is realistic enough in that you can spot enemy armor by the noise it makes, but in real life you can hear them from much further away - at least the big modern-day engines.

[@badluck-cp8bv]

@@williamt.sherman2573 WTH AREW YOU CTRL+C 'İNG THİS BRO??! YOU JUST SPAMİNG THİS ON EVERY COMMENT!

[@jonathanoriley8260]

​​@@hunter_0221 The Abram's turbine engine has a notoriously quiet sound profile when forward facing. It's specifically designed so that most of the noise is projected rearward, so you hear everything fairly loudly when behind the Abrams but it is _very_ quiet beyond about 50 meters when in front of the Abrams.

[@williamt.sherman2573]

@@badluck-cp8bv im joe

[@bittheproto8358]

The sad thing is the 2pl(2023) and the leclercs all use a 30 year old round that hasn't been in service for 25 years, that only the first leclerc should use, but the first t90, which is 30 years old, gets a round from 2016

[@williamt.sherman2573]

you good ol' Americans yappin bout armor issues on your beloved patriotic Abrams is hella funny. One hand busy with cheeseburgers, the other hand firing off angry replies to the snake and leakin government documents lmfao. murica mains be tilted brooo 💀💀💀💀

[@bruman182]

@@williamt.sherman2573 BRO IS JUST PASTING THE SAME COMMENT LMAO. HATE US BECAUSE CALIFORNIA EXCEEDS THE GDP OF YOUR ENTIRE COUNTRY. LOLOLOLOL.

[@KungFuWizardOfJesus]

@@williamt.sherman2573 The way you speak english doesn't match your name William.

[@williamt.sherman2573]

@@KungFuWizardOfJesus spicy burger. cmon dawg, burger cant resist. you sound like you are fumin rn my guy, keep that shit up

[@Epic_candle]

​@@williamt.sherman2573this comment isn't even talking about American tanks

[@jimdog8294]

Still wondering how the THICK ERA of the Abrams has way less effectiveness against kinetic and chemical rounds despite it literally being like3x the thickness of any Russian ERA

[@fernandoboeing1770]

Since when does more thickness mean more effectiveness when it comes to ERA?

[@Pawniac]

Since having a thicker block of ERA means more material has to be pierced by the dart? @@fernandoboeing1770

[@DaddysBelt92]

​@@fernandoboeing1770 era is basically an explosive sandwich of some sorts. You would expect a thicker era with more explosives inside and heavier plates would perform better but I guess if it ain't Russian it ain't working

[@fernandoboeing1770]

@@DaddysBelt92 Kontakt-1 ERA was smaller and better than the Blazer ERA, so what's your point?

[@notwofie]

I believe its more of what type of explosives you use in the ERA

[@bullreeves1109]

From what I’ve heard so far it seems that the problem is just that Gaijin should have added the SEPv3 that we know had these armor improvements instead of the more debatable SEPv2.

[@williamt.sherman2573]

you good ol' Americans yappin bout armor issues on your beloved patriotic Abrams is hella funny. One hand busy with cheeseburgers, the other hand firing off angry replies to the snake and leakin government documents lmfao. murica mains be tilted brooo 💀💀💀💀

[@B83N]

We know for a fact the M1A2 Sep had improved armor. It probably wasn't DU but still.

[@jonathanoriley8260]

​@@williamt.sherman2573 Okay Vatnik, keep coping over Ukraine proving your beloved Russian tanks aren't nearly as effective as the Russian MoD and War Thunder pretend they are.

[@badluck-cp8bv]

@@williamt.sherman2573 SHUT! it aint all americans !

[@thelegionisnotamused8929]

@@williamt.sherman2573 Where did America touch you?

[@stuthhamster]

"i think i just saw the tree move" every vietnam vet started rocking back and forth

[@icetea8946]

What doesnt make sense to me is that Irl the gen2 night vision and thermals of the abrams are literally as clean as Russian gen3 thermals/night vision but in game its like blubby like german first gen thermals.

[@FXIIBeaver]

It literally isn’t?

[@CruelSun69]

All generations of thermals are the same in war thunder across all nations.

[@FXIIBeaver]

@@CruelSun69 that is not true at all. There is a distinct difference between the generations.

[@stephenstowe9711]

@@FXIIBeaver there literally isn’t but sure bud

[@FXIIBeaver]

@@stephenstowe9711 yes there is. Gen 1,2, and 3 are distinctly different. You don’t play top tier so please be quiet.

[@jameshoch8519]

Abrams weight in game is not accurate for sep v2. Now gaijin is right that the protection isnt that different in armor layout. A lot of that added weight doesnt come from electronics like some are saying although alot of electronics is packed into it and does increase weight. Alot of that weight people are sighting comes from trophy aps system which is not represented in game on the sepv2 even though it uses it if it is fully deployed in combat on paper and has for at least a decade. In 2013 our sepv2s had trophy systems in 1AD. Trophy adds 2.5 tons and counter weights added to the tank to stabilize the turret and ensure it remains accurate. Normal abrams sepv2 aren't 67 68 tons. v2 with trophy should be around 64 to 65 tons. So im thinking they took that weight without thinking about the aps weight and added tusk II to it increasing it further without ever actually giving it trophy. Bottom line is the in game v2 shouldnt be nearly that heavy

[@SCComega]

Thing is, the SEPv2 doesn't include any armor improvements over earlier A2 Abrams; most of the weight I'd coming from things that don't effect warthunder; new radio and networking equipment, battlefield management system, new computers and fire control, improved and new night vision / thermals, displays, auxiliary power unit (Which let's it run the electrical system with the turbine off), air conditioning, changes to internal ergonomics, the new CROWS, and yes, the one thing that should matter, the TUSK2 ERA package. And the TUSK2 should be more effective than we have in game, ~600mm vs HEAT square-on. But the rest of the base armor package is as with the earlier service extension package and the base A2. (As the DU was introduced in the A2 package, and prototyped on the A1HC)

[@localdrugseller6431]

Not true. M1-A2 had DU in only the turret and army was restricted to only use it on the turret because DU was still slightly radioactive and its effects was totally unknown to people using the vehicle. In 2006 (before SEPV2 was developed) Army amended to this restriction and renewed their DU license allowing them to use DU in both turret and the hull.

[@Goddamndan200]

​@@localdrugseller6431 Still only 5 non SEP 3 hulls with DU armour

[@localdrugseller6431]

@@Goddamndan200 Yeah the video is about SEP variants not base M1A2

[@Simon-tr9hv]

​@@Goddamndan200still 2s38 was only a prototype and never entered service, what's your point

[@darkhammer2078]

The armor was upgraded from the original sep series without tusk tn the hill is about 5in or sum like that thicker idk for shure id have to ask my MG again

[@nickkozak4763]

you get a solid 31.75mm of protection with the tuskV2 and 26.75mm with the V1 you never realized there’s a 6.75mm plate holding the armor on.

[@madmullets]

wow you saw the ultra rare event... a LAV AD actually tried to kill CAS not just running around making noises.

[@BrezhnevStan]

If you're wondering why the abrams ERA can't do what kontakt-5 and relikt do it's because in war thunder you mainly fight against APFSDS, which western ERA isn't designed to counter

[@williamt.sherman2573]

all you americans yappin bout armour issue on your abrams is hella funny. one hand eating cheese burgers, the other hand to write angry replies to the snake and linkin gov documents lmfao brooo💀💀💀💀

[@lovelyhippo7826]

​@williamt.sherman2573 you must be fun at parties

[@fail22737]

​@@williamt.sherman2573rent free

[@michaelmoreno1683]

@@williamt.sherman2573how about you stop copying and pasting the same comment over and over again and actually have a productive conversation you sit there and try to make fun of people who are complaining about a problem but when your asking for a problem to be fix I’m sure you want it to be taken seriously so give that same respect to others

[@williamt.sherman2573]

@@michaelmoreno1683 i'm famous

[@USSWisconsin]

Ive got two main issues with this thing, 1. They made it heavier without actually upgrading armour so its just overall worse And 2. The lack of a spall liner.

[@innelator6941]

It doesn’t has spall liner. Watch RedEffect video about it.

[@IronicSM]

Most of the weight is attributed to new computer and operating systems that have zero effect in War Thunder, and it’s been proven the Abrams doesn’t have a Spall Liner, Instead the crew uses Kevlar Armor or something along those lines. But once the SEPv3 is added, We will have an increase in armor to the Hull.

[@exoticdachoo007]

No Abrams variant has a spall liner, sure they should've added it to compensate for the extra weight (because if you wanna talk realism then half of the russian tanks would be completely different) but in reality no variant actually had one, and the ones that had anything close to a spall liner had an RHA plate behind it, which would still spall regardless of how small the spall would be

[@CruelSun69]

​I think the russian tanks are just good in the setting of this game. The biggest strength of western armor is the situational awareness they have and military doctrine. Which goes out the window when the game is third person.

[@pilotman9819]

It basically boils down to the the fact that Gaijin should've added the Sepv3 which has the DU on the Hull even though that basically still doesn't do anything since no one shoots the Abrams in the Hull. Its a waste of a Dart since all you'll do is kill the driver and potentially the engine. Its that small tiny slit above the Driver port where the turret ring sits is where the money shot is.

[@williamt.sherman2573]

all you americans yappin bout armour issue on your abrams is hella funny. one hand eating cheese burgers, the other hand to write angry replies to the snake and linkin gov documents lmfao brooo💀💀💀💀

[@ZGD-yy9oy]

⁠@@williamt.sherman2573”yappin” yet you’re spamming copy and paste?

[@ancientsnail6360]

14:00 - 14:50 that was really impressive how you handled that. well done man!!

[@jaspersiron1041]

ayyy now i have a video to watch while eating before playing wt. thanks panzerpaw!!! i love your vids sm

[@theonlylechuga]

4:31 the M1A1's mantlet is thin enough for most KE penetrators to go through and that T-80UK probably had a dart

[@ConnorGadson]

I think people are underestimating the power of the latest ERA against kinetic penetrators. The latest ERA functions as a row of shape charges that effectively slice the dart into little chunks before it makes contact with the armor, thus losing the vast majority of its penetrating capacity.

[@nicolaskielblock8296]

tbh the us line has bigger issues then having a bad top tier tank, such as the fact that from 6.3 above it starts being obsolete in every aspect of the game

[@dominuslogik484]

Yeah, heck even at 5.0 the US tree starts having a lot of issues. the Pershing should never have to face off against anything higher than T44-85 as they are about identical but getting up tiered against the T54 and leopard 1 is absolute insanity since the Pershing unironically struggles to pen the Leopard 1 sometimes. or the fact that the BMP-1 with ATGM shows up a whole BR lower than the US is able to get its first ATGM so you are stuck grinding to 8.0 before getting ATGMS in the US tree and by that time everything is already starting to get covered in ERA. also the BMP-1 came out the same year as the M60A1 yet was a lower BR.

[@V3ry_Ep1c]

i would say all ranks except for low tier, mostly just because Germany gets really op

[@dominuslogik484]

@@V3ry_Ep1c The Sherman is a good tank but the fact that the first sherman is only .3 BR lower than the Panzer IV F2 makes it so you will never feel like anything has any armor. that and for some reason the 76mm armed shermans are so high in BR that they have to face almost exclusively Panthers.

[@V3ry_Ep1c]

@@dominuslogik484 yeah the only exception is like the first jumbo it has armor and Arment that are equal at its br

[@dominuslogik484]

@@V3ry_Ep1c first jumbo struggles to pen anything but thankfully it's armor gives you the ability to tank shots while you aim carefully.

[@burnmoto2939]

The type 10 i think mainly needs a hull down position

[@carkawalakhatulistiwa]

0:01 war thunder pliss M829A3. Everyone knows it's not very useful against relics but it can penetrate contact 5. This lack of ammunition makes the M1 difficult even at low tier

[@carkawalakhatulistiwa]

0:38 Russia is, giving the t90/t80 armor design to the public. Ukraine even gifve a duplet 4gen explosive reactive armor (ERA) design. why America is so stingy in explaining the design of their tanks. we need the m1a2 Abrams Sepv2 tank commander to leaking the tank design of tank armor

[@bluebud169]

So you want to be able to pen Russian and Chinese tank anywhere while having on average 2 second faster reload? This the problem I have with German mains too. They complain about Russian bias but they are inexperienced and bad as hell. They got so used to point and click gameplay from PZ. lV to Leopard 2s. A 3.3 medium tank having 139 mm of pen on shell that has explosive filler is so easy. Long 88 can deal with almost anything except IS-7 and Object 279 that you don't even see that often because of BR brackets and rarity of such vehicles. Then Leopard 1 comes into play and everything else is your skill issue. You can frontally one tap T-90M with DM23. DM53 is like butter. And now you want M829A3 that will break the balance of the game in your favour just because you are bad? You also got best CAS together with Isreal. Helicopters are mediocore but still usable, navy is also decent. I'd vouch for Italy to be buffed. Strongest country right now is probably Sweden and Germany. T-90M is outclassed by Leopard 2A7AV and Strv 122B+. Only good thing in USSR tech tree is Su-2 and Panstir. You could only get spall liners and DU armor only in turret. Literally Only few tanks were equipped with DU on hull and it never went into production

[@Luisasophie163]

never seen such bs in my whole life XD@@bluebud169

[@russianreaper7716]

@@bluebud169 my only rebuke with what you said is that its not that DU hull on the Abrams never went into full production. Its that it didn't go into production on the SEP V2 it is however standard on the SEP V3 which i doubt we will see in the game unless we get to 12.7 for ground.

[@russianreaper7716]

A3 would slice right through relict just like DM63 due to the fact that relict is based around the idea of shattering the penetrators of sabots both the rounds have a steel tip which makes the affect of this negligible

[@inkycat191]

Panzer paw, about unload the gun, last i checked some one said you can if you right alt and right click the shell you want to load in, not sure if it works or not

[@DrDork80]

The problem is most of the info retaining to the Abram’s is all classified and not out for public view so things that should be on the tank in game can’t be represented with the lack of info to build off of. So most things in the game will contribute to the appearance of the tank but the functionality of the tank will forever be limited until declassified info come to light

[@Tuck-Shop]

Russia wants the top secret information so a WT controversy about it will yield results soon enough.

[@Andrew-iq4qh]

Mind making a video on the Arietes they are missing quite literally their armor and their DU modification made in the iraqi war.

[@zlounberg6958]

Yeah they might not be up to spec but it's not the reason for 38% winrates US has there. Selling premium toptier vehicles is.

[@dominuslogik484]

Russia has Premium top tiers too but their win rates aren't nearly as bad as US. then again US win rates are pathetic across the entire range compared to others.

[@zlounberg6958]

@@dominuslogik484 russia has no toptier premiums

[@thanatosstorm]

​@@zlounberg6958Doesn't matter. Less battles at top tier and still low win rates.

[@daftcow706]

@@dominuslogik484 if you mean the turms you usually loose the game if your team has more than 5 of em

[@cc-bk3tx]

The clickbait isn't top tier it's not a 12.0 tank/s

[@imexampleofbroke5999]

I am pretty ure it doesnt have enough.i can literally front pen its turret cheecks with a t72.i dont think thats possible irl

[@davidvondihhar4721]

I got the abrams highest br I’ve ever been in and it literally feels like I’m driving a World War One tank vs modern tanks I can’t tell you the amount of non penetration shots this thing will get

[@Cam-Is-Cool-2009]

Until you get 3BM60 I get the same thing also I like to use the atgm it is really good

[@thisransomguy8533]

Quick question is the sep v2s back armor able to be penned by high caliber machine guns?

[@djjam4340]

Pan: When it come's to the game, each tank has to be balance soo.. T-80: WTF Ya'll Looking At Me For!?

[@daniel_f4050]

If they up the lower glacis on the SEP 2 and fix the auto ricochet into the turret from the upper glacis on all of the M1 models I think they’ll have something that everyone can live with. As it stands having only the late T series tanks with any chance of surviving an APFSDS to the upper glacis just feels off. Whether it’s because of giving way too much of a benefit of the doubt to ERA effect against darts or being to harsh on the ability of the darts to ignore that effect I don’t know. But it’s just feels very off. Oh yes, and death to the stupid sabot waste of disk space. Worst chrome ever added to the game tied with open canopies.

[@williamt.sherman2573]

you good ol' Americans yappin bout armor issues on your beloved patriotic Abrams is hella funny. One hand busy with cheeseburgers, the other hand firing off angry replies to the snake and leakin government documents lmfao. murica mains be tilted brooo 💀💀💀💀

[@dominuslogik484]

@@williamt.sherman2573 so you really copy pasted this reply multiple times, are you a bot or someone trying to ragebait on behalf of a foreign government? either that or you are just particularly dim witted.

[@badluck-cp8bv]

@@dominuslogik484 OK dont worry im reportin' him 4 spam

[@williamt.sherman2573]

​@@dominuslogik484 spicy burger. cmon dawg, burger cant resist

[@123asap6]

He is a bot. Probably one trying to compensate for something.

[@ITzzMike96]

All they need to do is make the turret ring not spall hard and upper hull doesn’t ricochet into the turret ring either and make the breach slightly stronger that’s all they need to add as far as the actual armor values

[@himhig]

Maybe some sort of progression with the hull armor, not DU, just make the armor actually improve to match the weight increase

[@danielszabo4534]

thank u man as a us main i love that

[@uniquescorpions4802]

When Sep V3 gets added you’ll get your added hill armor, but it terms of turret armor, that’s already correct

[@PSC4.1]

Ironic how Gaijin prides itself as being realistic, despite the fact that TUSK armor upgrades proved in the middle east that RPG rounds can be made less effective, yet every single time you get hit, its front on, despite the fact that the armor plates are made out *DPU* which has greater armor density than steel and still get penned by russian HE rounds.

[@seraphclion8356]

You can look up the specific documents, the depleted uranium lower plate armour was just tested on a small batch of vehicles, just an example of what people wrongfully say the Abrams has but actually is most likely not equipped with. I'm not saying that Gaijin isn't doing the Abrams no wrong though, they definitely make stuff like the pen and spaulling far from how it should be, which is most likely due to their Russian bias.

[@Helix597]

To be fair there are things in the game that have features they should not have like the T-80B with its thermal upgrade and the leclerc Azur which had a single example, while we can see that at least 5 Abrams had DU hulls. I think we could use wait for V3 which has an actual armor upgrade we can prove exists

[@donthunder5288]

all that weaknesses the team it self in incompetence with half of the team being 1 dead leave sq/premiums vehicles in all games. german tanks with their brand new improved armor just stomp as i watch my team perished into the abyss

[@RogueGMR]

So, they said and proved that only few training Abrams got a DU hull for medical research, basically because the DU is dangers if uncontained. But I'm 100% sure that the SEP V4 got a DU in the hull armour.

[@Train115]

The Merkava is VERY good at hull-down.

[@peggygawel7244]

Time to leak some more documents 😤

[@denislavventsislavov2078]

Bro expects to stop apfsds with his aide armor

[@skyguy11]

It's an obvious bait for another classified leak

[@ionizer8961]

Am i tripping or what? Cuz i remembered watching about the spall liners and why abrams doesn't have spall liners?

[@pilotman9819]

Its because the US Army was already annoyed by the weight of the Abrams. (70 going 90 tons in the most latest of versions with APS) and Spall Liners would add an additional 4 tons. So they didn't want it.

[@completionofcomplex]

For the game I think making the armor a bit stronger for the sake of balance is definitely the choice. Even if It's not realistic.

[@wolfaja755]

I mean they just add American vehicles pre nerfed. Look at things like the f4c not having countermeasures in game but having them irl. The Abrams is victim to the same type of stuff with systems not implemented in game as they are irl and the armor effectiveness being heavily nerfed. DU is harder than tungsten and it’s in a composite spaced configuration giving it less hardness and more shape charge protection. Abrams in game don’t have spall liners lowering survivability and making the tank feel like it gets one shot far too many times. Even the shells the tank fires is debated and are almost certainly understated in the game because that’s how the snail works, except for select vehicles. The era effectiveness on the t series is outperforming especially when you consider the shells used in the Abrams were specifically designed to defeat the t series with era and all. The assistance on all Abrams systems is insanely good which isn’t and probably can’t be depicted in game and the engine noise for the Abrams is way too loud. It’s a gas turbine engine producing a really high frequency of noise which doesn’t travel very far and from talking to people you can hear its tracks far before you can hear the engine. American vehicles in general aren’t depicted very good in game leading to vehicles that don’t perform like their real life counterparts in any way. Missiles in air rb don’t go as far or track as good as their real life counterparts do too. All around American vehicles are nerfed pretty dramatically with everything adding into one big nerf. I think the most accurate performing aircraft is probably the f5e and c but outside of that most other aircraft has big disparities in turning capability, speed, acceleration, and entertainment retention and that’s for all vehicles. Sure you can’t make all vehicles accurate but some of these are just absurd. Like the me163 turning its pilot into a soup every time you turn in game. I just think they need to face the light and fix the vehicles that need to be fixed like the Abrams.

[@dangelomccauley16]

Then thermals are not exactly the same thermals idk what's going on in Warthunder

[@TheMalarz1989]

Whenever you see a design issue like this you need to understand that it is by design, it is intentional. Bad design, lack of balance, all of this leads to player frustration, and that leads to increased spending. This game is using every single trick in the book for milking all the money out of its customers.

[@fernandojohnsen7639]

The Abrams with the M1A2 Tusk have only 5 Variants of DU Armor but nothing more. This 5 Variants are Prototypes for the Upgraded M1A2V3 Variant wich is not Ingame and use as Only Abrams variant DU Armor. The Abrams is in the Right place and dont need to get buffed only fixed with his Gun Breach no damage Problem and Lower Hull Fix where even 500mm Apds can pen the Armor cause this Tank suck af.

[@epicgamer6419]

Weakspot still go boom

[@iancornelsen9000]

just so you know when you press 2 to switch ammo types the ammo previously selected ammo stays in the breach so you have to fire the one in the breach to load the selected ammo PS great vid

[@Rempai420]

I think the Abrams SEPV2 is absolutely gorgeous, it’s just a shame it’s got a massive weak spot that everyone and their grandma knows. I get one shot more in the Abrams than I do in the Chally

[@iimasheriiol222]

War thunder should simulate the cancer du rounds and armor cause you should lose crew randomly to the chemo therapy

[@ZGD-yy9oy]

That’s not how that works

[@SecuR0M]

based and heavy metal pilled 💪

[@funwithmagnus8570]

Yeah, that's not what DU does.

[@ThePadadada]

the armor that they could give it is useless either way with that turret weakspot they can buff the lower plate to infinity it will change nothing

[@Helix597]

That’s mainly a problem from up close where you can aim at weak spots easier like the T-72s LFP and driver hatch + Leopard UFP, I been killed through my LFP many times when I’m on the larger maps trading shots and even as I’m closing on objectives. It’s not going to unfuck the win rates but it would be nice to have. Turret ring is also getting buff from 50mm to around 250mm LOS, no stoping sabots but it will help with UFP ricochets and will help make the Abrams more survivable against autocannons from the front

[@captainvlad]

Almost like they should've stopped at tanks/vehicles you can actually get the information on???

[@Squid2650]

You don't unload the 120mm gun on the M-1A1 and A2 the case is semi combustible and you risk rupturing the case, spreading highly flammable propellant inside the turret (hint, bad idea) same for any opther NATO origin 120mm smoothbore gun

[@emortalelitegaming2667]

Still wondering why tow-2b is nerfed

[@ushiki2212]

even with the armour buffs the abrams will have the same weakspots. like when the t80uk at the start of the video, even with the buffs will still be able to take out your gun breach. Not saying that it shouldnt get a buff but like, don't expect the tank to play much differently. I am not specifically critiquing you im just letting ppl know.

[@lafosh7234]

With the edition of more armor or spall liners which was tested/added to a small amount of Abrams it will go a long way to increase your chances of not being 1 tapped by someone sneezing at your large American ass

[@williamt.sherman2573]

you good ol' Americans yappin bout armor issues on your beloved patriotic Abrams is hella funny. One hand busy with cheeseburgers, the other hand firing off angry replies to the snake and leakin government documents lmfao. murica mains be tilted brooo 💀💀💀💀

[@dominuslogik484]

@@williamt.sherman2573 5th time you have posted this that I have found....

[@williamt.sherman2573]

@@dominuslogik484 you are literally mega mind bro

[@lafosh7234]

@@williamt.sherman2573 everything you just said is the prime example about someone being “tilted” bro

[@alaskan_bigfoot9090]

Honestly it would be better if every other person who plays war thunder doesent think themselves as a tank and weapons expert and spend all their time arguing over things that hardly change the state of gameplay. I always see people complain about realism when it means making their favorite vehicles better, meanwhile they play a game where you can survive multiple hits from APFSDS within 2000 meters and half the players turn graphics way down to get an advantage. War thunder is an arcade game and if we all just treat it that way and ask for better maps and game modes we will all be better off, the game isnt realistic and it isnt worth getting upset over.

[@sarodorethedragon9865]

i took a 10 minute google search on sep v2 armor and found a restoration project that SHOWED THE TURRET ARMOR. im sorry but GJN is just wrong in this case, the sep v2 armor layout for the composites is wrong i get not wanting to add something "a-historical" but its a game, there comes a point where you WILL NOT have the answers and will have to assume , id rather best guess then the tank simply never being able to take a hit because they refuse to change the armor for gameplay because right now your either Russian or your dead

[@williamt.sherman2573]

you good ol' Americans yappin bout armor issues on your beloved patriotic Abrams and ruski bias is hella funny. One hand busy with cheeseburgers, the other hand firing off angry replies to the snake and leakin government documents lmfao. murica mains be tilted brooo 💀💀💀💀

[@pilotman9819]

Either Russian? Lol. Russia has the easiest MBTs to kill next to the US ones. Literally just shoot the Driver Port and LFP. German and Swedish MBTs is the crux of Top Tier.

[@dangelomccauley16]

All the armor in Abrams is messed up

[@Asgar1205]

all guns can be unloaded with a hand full of exceptions... well those exceptions are mostly russians... why implement something Soviets can't use?

[@mitri5389]

Yeah... spoken by someone who knows nothing... 120mm ammo is caseless like the soviet 125mm, it's better to fire than to unload.

[@Asgar1205]

@@mitri5389 better but 100% not impossible

[@mitri5389]

@@Asgar1205 it's done because they can rip making the vehicle dangerous and completely ineffective...

[@user-dv5qx5kv2o]

Things Gaijin got wrong with the Abrams is the Turret neck is around 250mm of RHA and the Sound of the abrams isnt that loud it sounds like a leopard from a distance but when it stops then you can really hear the turbine How do I know this Very simple Look up Abrams mobility Test Demo Vid on youtube you will see how fast it is and how loud it is also what they got wrong is they say it doesnt get added armor when it does In Iraq War we welded added armor plate onto the Lower plate and the Turret cheeks for Added armor did a Lot of tanks get this No but many did we did it on the abrams that were going to see more rough combat than the others the others didnt get it because at most they would only see people with RPG's and IED's just like the HSTVL that tank has the same pen as the M735 someone provided official declassified docs to them and they said its for balance OK GAIJIN lets play your game so 2s38 gets like 200 sabots that does 200+ mm of pen it gets IRST track and Proxi shells and it can carry a LOT OF THEM and it sits at 9.7 How is that right while the HSTVL is like 11.3 has sabots that do about just the same but only gets like 15 sabots it gets no Proxi shells it has no IRST its engine is LOUD AF it has ZERO ARMOR a Fly could pop its turret ALSO lets not talk about how they said the M829A3 would do nothing for the M1a2 Sep v2 lets also not talk about how they force us to have the TUSK package so we can easily die by T80 T90 T72 Frag rounds This might be getting off track right here but lets look at the SU27 and F15 F15 Stock 2 Aim-9L's grind is HARD AF ! at first and F16 and almost any jet can run it down while SU-27 gets Stock 2 R-73's which makes the grind SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO EZZZZZZZZZ also lets not talk about how they Get R27ER R27R R27ET R27T they get 10 missiles while we cant even get 2 Aim-120A Early missiles only for the F15 to slightly even out the match and it only has a range of 25 miles 35G pull same seeker head as the Aim54A and close performance as the Aim-7M/E-2 USA and MANY NATO countries have Suffered Hell Look at Italy they have suffered the WORST out of us ALL and they DONT GET ANYTHING im thinking we need to boycott them for a solid 2 weeks to show them off that would smack them REally REALLY hard in the wallet

[@remoy6114]

Hey Panzer! I wonderd if u wanted to play full Russian bias for a video?

[@aNiceRusslan]

Theres more evidence for the tank not having that kinda armour in the lower plate than the tanm having it, but theres nothing to prove that it does so gajin made no mistake

[@superabcdet]

You should try German+Swedish team up vs all nation in top tirr 😂😂😂

[@user-dm7ql4sh3z]

I like it how people think Gaijin is out to sabotage the American Tree on purpose. One of the most popular trees for new players with the highest amount of PACK premiums to buy for grinding. They even got an M1A1 as premium now.

[@phillyfan118]

It's a strategy they're hoping for a leak. You can't tell me gov Intel isn't paying attention based on historical data of this game.

[@seanmonfared3525]

i wont even play it i skipped the tree after i unlocked the sep v2 w click bait because i was constantly on fire and disabled compared to russia so now im trying germany because gaijin moved to hungary from moscow just following their bias around the world

[@scorpbyt609]

Are you using M830A1 because it's a proxy round

[@PanzerPaw]

I pretty much only used sabots and heat

[@scorpbyt609]

Replace the M830 round with M830A1. less pen but have proxy

[@williamt.sherman2573]

you good ol' Americans yappin bout armor issues on your beloved patriotic Abrams is hella funny. One hand busy with cheeseburgers, the other hand firing off angry replies to the snake and leakin government documents lmfao. murica mains be tilted brooo 💀💀💀💀

[@scorpbyt609]

@@williamt.sherman2573 I was just saying just use the poxy round against helis to him , i wasn't complaining about armour lol read the comment before replying dummy

[@Ghent_Halcyon]

There are a lot of tanks with issues similar to the abrams in WT. Basically they are missing something they shouldn’t be missing. Unless your talking about literally any western vehicle. Nations like China or Russia. Then the problem is flipped, they have things they shouldn’t have and they over perform.

[@matthewgregory2871]

How are your thermals such good quality?

[@thanatosstorm]

Three diff generations of thermals. Top tier gets the highest resolution

[@matthewgregory2871]

Thank you @@thanatosstorm

[@towtruckaj]

I don't think the abrams has a problem taking a hit at all, I play mostly russian, some US and in my t80 Sometimes I one hit a abrams sometimes I get one hit, But most of the time we both take hits and it comes down to who places the next shots better and often who reloads quicker, Of which the abrams does by far, In fact most of my fights come down to who reloads quicker and it's almost never the t series tanks that do. This is why almost always when I go against an abrams I often chose breach or barrel shots over possible one shots because I know chances are that one shot isn't going to happen and they reload quicker so if it comes down to a shot trading fight I lose. This is the same problem I see you having in this video, You go for those one shots and when it doesn't work out as it almost never does when you need it to then you get killed when the enemy takes there shot, even though you had very easy breach or barrel shots available.

[@DracoSen21]

He could have shot the turret or the between the hull and turret, also I saw a few shots that were angled in a way it’d bounce. I use Russia and that’s how I die, 4/5 I’m dead in their first shot

[@sumikae7635]

All the armor values in game are pure fantasy because no one has access to these classified materials. The armor of the Abrams should just be buffed period because its impossible to model modern tanks accurately, especially when Gaijin devs are not engineers. They know jack shit about material science and engineering if the game represents the extent of their knowlegde. This talk about DU should just be flavor at this point and armor should be balanced around gameplay, not perceived realism.

[@dankaloww1067]

They follow publicly available information and Manuals. Even if its 100% not the same as real life, Gaijin and quite frankly most of the community doesn't want to drop the accuracy standards that war thunder still maintains. If there is no evidence (Also information being vague) Then the Vehicle won't be improved. I mean they got data on the German and Russian tank armors. So those vehicles are more realistic, However the Abrams does have hull armor information, But it doesn't have additional hull armor upgrade information. So buffing it would be more Fantasy then what the standards of the game currently is. Is why it will not happen.

[@sumikae7635]

@dankaloww1067 Accuracy standards are non-existent. Publicly available information doesn't paint the full specification of tanks and thus are inherently inaccurate. There's no difference in being inaccurate from having a partial picture to being inaccurate from making up numbers, fundamentally your end result is still an inaccurate representation of the performance of the tank. Gaijin may have "data," but it's not the full specifications of the armor and ammo, it could just be the dimensions and location of armor packages. The composition of composite armor is highly classified and varies greatly in performance. In the end, it's a literal guess as to what the RHA equivalent of these armor packages are, hardly accurate at all. Basically Gaijin only has a single of the puzzle, but it's literally anyone's guess what the full picture is. You can guess it's dog based on the piece you have, and I can just guess a cat based on the general knowledge its an animal puzzle; and in the end our guesses are both equally off because it turned out to be a fox.

[@huntsman0076]

The funny thing is, there is no balance in war so its not fair, but it's a game so💀

[@MindlessBoy-de5gn]

This may cause another leak 😅

[@Mgaming61]

plot twist: *that's exactly what they want...*

[@pheaktra_]

​@@Mgaming61 its actually what Trickzzter (not joking its his actual name) wanted hes a gaijin employee for bug reports he'll most likely "not a bug" to actual inaccurate and bugs for nato tanks while he also approves false bugs to russian tanks

[@williamt.sherman2573]

you good ol' Americans yappin bout armor issues on your beloved patriotic Abrams is hella funny. One hand busy with cheeseburgers, the other hand firing off angry replies to the snake and leakin government documents lmfao. murica mains be tilted brooo 💀💀💀💀

[@PhylisYeet]

"We DoN't HaVe A rUsSiAn BiAs!" -Gaijin

[@PhylisYeet]

@icezinho_ ok so every other nation has a skill issue against Russia? Idk it seems like there's a common factor...

[@PhylisYeet]

@icezinho_ While that may be true, look at examples like the Object 279 or IS-7, basically impenetrable. (if you have money to buy either one) While yes, skill does matter, being able to tank shots from any direction and survive is very much a bias on the side of Russia. There's also favoritism in terms of battle rating, with the Object 292, which has 695 mm of pen at 10.0 while the T80, which is the same exact chassis and turret as the 292 WITHOUT the 152 mm gun, is at 11.3. DELIBERATELY putting an overpowered vehicle at a lower br is pretty biased, don't you think?

[@PhylisYeet]

@icezinho_ Things the Russians have: The highest win rate at top tier (and many other tiers besides). The most vehicles. The lowest repair costs. Some of the best vehicles in their class (MiG-23MLD, MiG-27K, Ka-52, Tunguska, etc). Even when they don't have a best in class vehicle, they are still very competitive (T-80BVM). Artificial buffs to soviet vehicles, such as the lack of spall on top tier tanks. Completely under tiered vehicles like the BMP-2M and PT-76-57. Also, Gaijin, being a Russian company, has chosen to IGNORE the armor on the M1A2 SEP because they simply "don't have enough information." So yeah. That's a LITTLE ridiculous in my opinion.

[@PhylisYeet]

@icezinho_ Gaijin absolutely does NOT make the Leopard or the Abrams better, no matter if you know how to use it or not. Also, history has shown us time and time again that people, even within large organizations, do not always behave rationally. The Russian government is a totalitarian state, their interference cannot be ruled out. War Thunder serves as an excellent tool for propaganda, it wouldn't do well for the Russian military if it appeared weak. Speculation, but one based on sound logic.

[@MadGelo]

Abrams loud engine sound is single worst thing about it.

[@birdwithagun]

I love it

[@denislavventsislavov2078]

If they remove that stupid engine sound setting it won't be as problematic

[@Apache-ix2xu]

POV you get M1A1 and get killed by a 50 cal

[@oblivionwalker8611]

Bro honestly where’s the CHEEK ARMOR

[@torvic1236]

All Russian developers have some weird anti NATO equipment fetish.

[@D87468]

And why then are Swedish and German tanks the best in the game?

[@torvic1236]

@@D87468 They're not

[@Luisasophie163]

lol XD only the new leopard@@D87468

[@SovietUnion_]

​@@torvic1236they are bruv 💀

[@Registered_Simp]

@@torvic1236 Bro, they have the best win rate at Top Tier right now by a landslide. WDYM they aren't the best? They're tied for best survivability, gun angles/handling, and optics. They have some of the best shells and mobility as well.. There is nothing a T-Series does that a Leopard 2A7V or Strv 122 (series) doesn't already do, if not do better. Granted, the primary deciding factor is the players. But there must be a reason all the META slaves went to Germany and Sweden rather than Russia this patch...

[@WafflesShark]

Everyone's freaking out about the top-tier tanks, meanwhile my dumb ass has been playing for years and still hasn't made it past rank IV.

[@western-m1a2]

All the Abrams have the same problem the turret ring

[@isr4el187]

Which is also incorrectly modeled. It doesn't sit up nearly as high as it does in game and it has more armor there.

[@Iden_in_the_Rain]

⁠@@isr4el187it’s also not even volumetric right now, causing it to be *even easier* to penetrate. Not to mention that it is modeled to have 5x less armor than irl and that the turret ring itself is sloped and would likely shatter any APFSDS that hits it

[@pilotman9819]

If you Google photos of an M1A2 Abrams, you can clearly see the turret ring exposed.

[@Iden_in_the_Rain]

@@pilotman9819 there is a few millimeters of it exposed, of which are actually three dimensional (not 2D like in game), have 5x the armor protection as in game, and are sloped, further increasing the armor protection

[@williamt.sherman2573]

@@isr4el187 you good ol' Americans yappin bout armor issues on your beloved patriotic Abrams is hella funny. One hand busy with cheeseburgers, the other hand firing off angry replies to the snake and leakin government documents lmfao. murica mains be tilted brooo 💀💀💀💀

[@ForceOfChaos1776]

U saw

[@ufcplayer2444]

The chalengers all of them schudent BE able to get one hittet in a full hull down Position the challangers Armor exechali the turet Front IS way to weke in my opinion IT schud seryusly BE able to Tank more schots than IT Dose

[@RazrzWT]

its supposed to have m829a3 with 800 mm of flat pen but ya know

[@scorpbyt609]

or M829a4 with 1000+ pen

[@JamesVDBosch]

And T-90M is supposed to have 3BM-59 with 900mm flat pen. See? I can make shit up too!

[@denislavventsislavov2078]

Flat pen is kinda irelevan in top tier, very few tanks are flat and they usually have thin armor

[@orcsking4076]

go read some actual info from the publicly available information from the pentagon they haven't given sep v2 any DU armour at the hull because the only 5!!!!! that exist is in a military training school and will never be used in combat and the other reason why they can't make the armour better is because the publicly available information of the the abrams!!!!! is not!!! fully open so they can't find any and any of you who say "this wiki said this" check when it was last updated with factual information first fat check everything! P.S. stop crying about abrams being bad it's the pentagons fault not Gaijin go cry about russia being always OP in low rank instead.

[@memazov6601]

When they gonna add the leak documents of the Abram X

[@Honoer]

If the standard is leo2a7 and t90m/bvm is 11.7 ain’t no way the standard m1a2 deserves to be 11.7 it’s a 11.3 tank all day long, basically no difference from the m1a1. Infact I’d take the m1a1 aim over the a2 any day. Really good round and the gen 2 thermals. At 11.3

[@yazanalhawartheh4165]

try next challenger ds no one love the Brits so give them some

[@christianguzman8228]

Never forget, Gaijin knows a well trained Abrams crew can follow up a shot in 3 seconds, but for the sake of balance, they will not do so. Strangely the CROWS doesn't get the option to outfit the Javelin, Stinger, Mk19, M240B, or anything. It's just another .50cal. No I won't divulge sources, do not ask.

[@thybonheng1485]

Gaijin give a click bait a 60% down tier rate because i see it a lot at 10.3

[@Dapherrr]

PANZERRR

[@dwal3486]

Gaijin doesn't know how the DU armor was implemented to just randomly add it would be, lets just say odd. so lets say gaijin does decide to add some form of DU armor to the A2. well then i would expect that the Russian tanks should have their DU penetrators' added to the game. for all you Russian bias folks out there have you considered that while western tanks in the game have DU APFSDS all the Russian tanks have is Tungsten APFSDS. give the Abrams more armor. but it would only be fair that Russian tanks get to use there best Ammo as well.

[@bombabud]

Remember me?!

[@edgarviernes2532]

Yes

[@bittype2405]

some people already covered this and according to many the SEP isn't supposed to have DU in the hull, which a lot of people are arguing about (only 5 hulls had DU apparently) not saying it shouldn't be buffed, my leopard throws the abrams around like a toy and i almost never see them do too well in games unless it's like a level 100 with 2 kd or more lol

[@Pawniac]

The 5 DU hulls document has been amended over 10 times. In the 9th one, the 5 hulls limit is removed and changed to "as needed", aka, virtually unlimited. Gaijin is saying since there's no primary source document that *EXPLICITLY* states that the hulls received DU and exactly *HOW MUCH* armor they provide, they can't buff the armor, which is a bunch of bull.

[@thevortex6754]

I love my Abrams, and I do pretty decent with it, but damn you can just automatically tell it’s lacking armor when you play it. Heavy af, with no armor, love Gaijin logic

[@KarKenon]

So, I don’t play the Abrams, I’m a Challenger player. I regularly kill Abrams (+variants) with a disgusting amount of ease. I think top tier in general should be pulled out and fixed across the board, tanks, planes, ships all of it and then re-added to the game once everything works properly. To be fair I am also one of many player who think Ground RB should be Ground RB not Air RB with tanks, but Gaijin wont ever fix that either so the Abrams is probably going to stay Basically Useless

[@KarKenon]

For context I mean the Challenger DS not the Challenger 2

[@darkhammer2078]

Brother im a 19k and I won’t say to much but if you crack the turret hill or side skirts you gotta get GD to come have spcial ppl to get that armor yk if it’s a pink powder but that’s as much as you getting from me let context explain the rest

[@Danny__608]

"All tanks need to be balanced" "We can't add that because we don know exactly specifications" Meanwhile russian tanks:

[@pilotman9819]

What about Russian tanks? A shot to there lower glacis basically goes to the carousel which is an instant kill. There driver port is also an instant kill. So again, what about Russian tanks? Meanwhile Leopard 2A7V and STRV 122B+ has the best armor, mobility, penetrators, and thermals in the game right now.

[@williamt.sherman2573]

you good ol' Americans yappin bout armor issues on your beloved patriotic Abrams is hella funny. One hand busy with cheeseburgers, the other hand firing off angry replies to the snake and leakin government documents lmfao. murica mains be tilted brooo 💀💀💀💀

[@dominuslogik484]

@@williamt.sherman2573 This is the 4th time I have seen this exact reply from you, absolute bot behavior.

[@dominuslogik484]

@@pilotman9819 that is because the Abrams isn't a product so they don't publish up to date information on it. The export variant is basically identical to the original Abrams from the 80s so its like comparing a T72M with the T72B3. also believing Russian marketing material for their systems is what got us here.

[@williamt.sherman2573]

@@dominuslogik484 osas in da booshes

[@heroeacemoon1672]

Ok sooo Minecraft leaks time I guess

[@FXIIBeaver]

The abrams problem is the players.

[@hhale]

Gaijin has a long history of nerfing the M1 series and optimizing late Soviet/Russian tanks. They'll claim "play balance", but I can smell the bullshit from here.

[@prestongarvey2285]

look at the challanger they got it worse tbh

[@Cecil97]

lol what if war thunder was just a psyop to get real data on the vehicles by using terrible stats XD

[@19KiloM1A1]

I find it funny how everyone thinks these these tanks are true to life. Not even close. Play Steel Beast or Heat PC. The sights are wrong. There isnt a GAS sight there isnt a manual over ride. Yes it fun to play but this isn't even close to reality.