The Absurdity of iRacers: Criticizing Speed While Ignoring Physics

[@GamerMuscleVideos]

1) I enjoy iracing 2) They are improving physics and I love that they are working on things 3) ironically the speed issue is likely from them trying to make sim more realistic 4) I don't disagree with the cars being to fast 5) I explain why it's a more complex issue 6) I wanted to highlight the absurdity of people being this worked up over the speed but not the underlying physics at the limit that have been insane for over a decade. 7) CONSPIRICY What if they made it stupidly fast for week 13 so they could then reduce it and be like "we listened we the best" ? lol Its interesting what people latch onto and what different people focus on and for why, I myself will focus and fixate on stupid things or on things disproportionately or for what is more or less relevant to me specifically and not to other people or other use cases as will everyone so its fun to try and think about what those things are for yourself and others. Videos from real drivers being very clear about iracing insane handling - kzbin.info/www/bejne/eJmTi4SDmq-plZo&ab_channel=AustinOgonoski kzbin.info/www/bejne/p2nKaqxqqZmAq9Usi=oXeJfKUZhxM2RkNZ&t=1021

[@valter_vava74]

I really won't overrule this as being a publicity stunt and a whole new version coming soon.

[@zdrboyz]

When people talking about 'unrealistic'', it is like - compared to what? To real life - we should be glad that sims aren't super realistic, cause we will never have all the feedback about conditions that we are getting in real life - without feedback it would just feel inconsistent. The level of detail we already have is a lot. Compared to other sims? - I don't know - ACC that gets praised for super complex tire calculations and realistic gt3 physics, doesn't have a tire wear at all, you push those cars flat out for an hour in Hungaroring and get faster - is that realistic? For the part about pushing slip angles and going bit over limit - it might be an issue for gt3 and other more mechanical grip sports cars more than an gtp which is very high downforce car, it should loose a lot of grip as soon as it gets sideways - you don't see formula cars using high slip angles in corners. But maybe my assumption that gtp is closer to formula car than gt3 type car is wrong.

[@John-ok8ts]

The big difference is the way you have to drive to be fast in iracing is still a valid style of driving. How you have to drive to be fast in every other sim is unrealistic even if there are aspects especially not at the cutting edge that are more realistic. Fuck that sounds like a GM sentence.

[@mbgmadbull1141]

great news tho is that the tires do feel like tires now. bad news is people won't be happy regardless XD I'm still gonna drive harder and harder till the wheels fall off and go again. hopefully the oval side gets the new tires before the NIS series goes up, might make the NASCAR next gen cup cars actually good for once and I mainly drive them lol

[@AtomicAndi]

as usual people cannot distinguish between a realistic physics model and realistic parameters

[@numbersevenhull2540]

I've done 482kph in the MX5 on iracing. Admittedly it was vertically.

[@hpisloud1]

973 mph in a NASCAR truck for me. Get gud.

[@arranmc182]

@@hpisloud1 wasnt the pickup cup was it had a car go to the moon the other day when the big one happened I saw the crash and one car took off like a rocket 😂

[@mbgmadbull1141]

@@numbersevenhull2540 late model stock could go like 345 mph with a super specific setup at iRacing superspeedway a while ago before it got patched

[@dinkidink5912]

What I've seen is people are not worked up purely about the speed, but that this is a symptom of the physics being off, the speed differentials are so great that it's undeniable that something is significantly wrong. It's also not helped by the fact that the hybrid system is completely wrong.

[@pf296]

Iracing is the benchmark for real life. Real life needs to fix its physics. I mean we're already paying for content and have many many subscriptions in real life, only the physics now need a overhaul.

[@mrangry1461]

fr man. I will switch to irl when they offer what iracing does in terms of racing other people any time of day.

[@naspotsev4658]

I think there is such an outburst for the GTPs because it is The Smoking gun that illustrate without the shadow of a doubt that there is indeed a problem with iRacing. People, except some bald youtubers are generally well behaved and good little abiding simracers. And it is so well known that iRacing is the pinnacle of simracing, that people aren’t sure if its them or the sim when something is off. Now, it is clear that it is the sim that is off. Ence, why it is such a big deal

[@RacingAnt]

GTPs being faster says NOTHING about the accuracy of iRacings physics. It says that they've mucked up one of the hundreds of parameters used to map the characteristics of the GTP. My guess is the drag to downloaded mapping. I.e. the GTPs create crazy amounts of downforce for very little drag.

[@MCOGroupNews]

This is reductive at best, inaccuracies happen all the time even in the most well kept and crafted scholarly experiments. This does not mean the product is bad or dysfunctional as a whole. It just means that yes, humans and software are not flawless, which we knew all along. To call this a smoking gun and dismiss their achievements and careful curation up until now is ridiculous.

[@silverfoxvr8541]

@@MCOGroupNews No, the over all physics are trash. Iracing tire models and loss of grip mechanics ie sliding and catching slides is insanely unrealistic.

[@S2GUnit]

@@MCOGroupNews Iracing's tyre models are nowhere near realistic. They tyres go from a wide slick tyre to a thin wooden, low grip tyre in hundreds of a second for almost no reason if you don't adhere to their shitty driving physics. Driving a normal car or race car on iracing tyres in real life would create the biggest lawsuits from the insane danger.

[@NielsHeusinkveld]

Someone has to do it. GTP.

[@GamerMuscleVideos]

You are living in the past LLM GPT racing is where its at now. Also lol no way my dyslexic brain can cope with 3 letters that are used in different orders for a bunch of things and sound mostly the same GAME OVER !

[@blacknovella]

pretty sure he did it on purpose

[@GamerMuscleVideos]

@@blacknovella Lol my brain processes words in ways that I don't even understand or expect , though there is often some logic to it just not one that's English lol.

[@davecamyt]

Thank you. Saved me typing a comment.....wait....shiiiiiit

[@cirjanionutsim]

You are just retarted just like all of You irenting idiots! You dont even know the classes that You are racing . Jesus! Idiots!

[@slaphead90]

"This video is going to upset people" This is exactly why I'm here.

[@DimitriSovendas]

1) Death 2) Taxes ) GamerMossel complains about iRacing; Facts of life

[@GamerMuscleVideos]

Tea , grass , walking , helicopters , gliders , DD girls - these are the only things immune from complaints!

[@davedeja]

In my opinion, The GTP speed issue is just the latest in a long list of issues that people have complained about to the seemingly deaf ears of iRacing. People believe that iRacing appears to be ignoring the stupid penalty system that everyone knows is severly broken, The tire model that you have ranted endlessly about, The otheworldly general physics of the sim among many other issues. And this is probably why there is such a fuss. It's just the latest issue.

[@CrisHazzan]

The big problem is that people go around saying "it's the best...it's the best" and many confuse saying "it's the best" to include EVERYTHING and in its physics FOR ME it's not the best... It has the best online competition system BUT IN DRIVING it's not the best even close. I agree 100% with what you say in this video.

[@TheFrontyer]

It does without a doubt has the most realistic ffb and physics.

[@Bmoncrief]

But it is the best 🤷🏾‍♂️ coming from someone who plays all sims and is unbiased. There are more professional drivers in iracing than other sims. There’s a reason for that.

[@CrisHazzan]

@@Bmoncrief That is very relative, for example Max Verstappen runs in Iracing but for HIM the best FFB is AC and he says it in a video... It is also true that there are many drivers who have not even tried other sims, they only know about Iracing through comments and because as I said before it has the best online system (that is not up for debate) there are also other drivers in other sims like Rf2 or LMU. There are many people who invested a lot of money in Iracing and do not like the idea of ​​going to another SIM because they feel that they lose everything they spent... but I insist, just as there are many drivers who speak highly of Iracing, there are also other drivers who say that it is not a big deal but well, the fans will only pay attention to "such driver is racing here..." and the driver who is in another sim does not count?

[@mikecoates5574]

Because it's about RACING not DRIVING. That is the simple answer why iracing is in the position it is in without any real competition.

[@ThatLoudLad]

@@TheFrontyer Bruv you can't feel shit, it's only what's happening to the front wheels and not the rest, you drive with your ass and not your hands. EVERY sim has ffb for each wheel to give you feedback of what's happening, apart from iracing.

[@the_OG1893]

Iracing tire models and loss of grip mechanics ie sliding and catching slides is insanely unrealistic.

[@richmachin6741]

It was about 4 or 5 years ago that either JP Montoya or H Castroneves said “Driving an Indycar on iRacing is like driving a Miata on ice in real life”; and before that everyone who had ever driven a real car has said the same thing. I guess the iRacing fanboys had already sunk too much money and time into the sim to accept that it was wrong so went into defensive/ head in the sand mode…

[@rallytainment]

You nailing it again. Thank you

[@rouxf13]

I play and enjoy iRacing but that's strictly because of all the things it does around racing well - the spectator modes, the series, log in and go nature, and the large number of players. From the driving perspective (and I'm not quick) I feel like there's a lot to improve on. I think it was Random Callsign who said "iRacing isn't a simulator you pay for, it's a racing service that has a simulator attached." Bit of a generalization but I agree.

[@_wyans]

I must say, after being an iRacing subscriber since about 2010, I love it. The worst thing that ever happened to me in regards to iRacing is I drove a real car competitively. I find it so incredibly frustrating to enjoy in almost all the cars now. I still go there for the things you can't get anywhere else, but race there less and less. You are right, it's flawed and impossible to communicate. This horrible GTP oversight has been a breath of fresh air in online discourse because it seemed iRacing detractors have been fighting an uphill battle for over a decade. If anything, the "meme" of the GTPs should serve as a cornerstone in discussions moving forward regarding iRacing's "realism", it acts as a conversation starter and eye-opener to all the things they get wrong. And if the focus is on that, they'll hopefully be motivated to fix it of the public is talking about it and not just some balding dude in his spare room who can't say "GTP"

[@RacingAnt]

Funny thing is, GTP cars have the latest tyre model, and this fixes most of the complaints with iRacing's physics. Gamer Muscle is on the money when he calls out how ridiculous the community is for calling out iRacing for completely the wrong thing.

[@_wyans]

@@RacingAntmost of my frustrations have been with the utter lack of proper hybrid which is being overshadowed by the insane corner speeds

[@Marco-mc6kp]

A friend of mine and I were discussing LMU GT3s and iracing GT3 and their differences , and I said “the problem with iracing is that the car has no weight, it is like a sphere in vacuum” 😅

[@MrTomWaffles]

Iracing's only real big reason its so poplar over other sims is the matchmaking

[@AndrewGeierMelons]

Lap times are the one metric that sim racing drivers can actually compare to real life to validate the authenticity. Me? I went way too far in depth on simulating my real life race car, in Assetto Corsa, choosing specific tires, gear ratios, engine, etc. that matched the speed exactly, km/h to km/h. I was able to get the same lap time in Assetto Corsa that I was able to get in real life, down to the tenth of a second, by getting the exact speeds right. Sim racing is ridiculously accurate when you remove aerodynamics from the equation and actually tune the grip way down to match real life. I found that I was able to brake at the exact same marks, turn at the exact same marks, etc., and, rain or shine, I was able to run the same lap times on the same lines with the same speeds. The problem I have with sim racing is, it always feels like the cars either have too much grip (Gran Turismo 7's the closest in terms of snow and ice that I've ever felt, having done rally school, even better than iRacing in dirt, but Gran Turismo on tarmac is way too much grip), not enough grip (did someone say BMW M2 CSR in iRacing? I've been in an M2 CSR in real life and it's not that slippery), or just too stiff (my real life race car tipped over on bumps I was able to hit in real life due to the suspension being slightly too stiff in-game in Assetto Corsa.) No one ever gets the grip itself just right, except Assetto Corsa who screwed up suspension and crash physics... Everything is extra stiff, extra solid, with no give or compliance. You end up with none of the sims being identical; iRacing too fast, too grippy, or not grippy enough depending on tire model, Gran Turismo being too grippy every time unless you turn down the tire compound, which actually makes it one of the better sims these days except for the force feedback not feeling perfect and I assume they still haven't fixed clutch physics. Forza, don't even get me started. If these are all meant to be simulations, why can you tell which sim is which by the way the cars go over bumps, or lose grip? ...because they're not perfect sims yet. We're just doing the best that we can with things that are provided. If you want to match lap times, you need to go into Assetto Corsa and mod the actual grip values of the tires yourself, giving, say, a 0.82 friction multiplier to the tires in a .ini file buried deep in the car files, and then change the gear ratios, spring rates, etc. Or, you could just say to hell with it and make it close enough to the lap times and top speeds and watch as the corner speeds fall into "close enough" territory. Close enough is fun enough. Don't make iRacing unrealistic with lap times that are 10 seconds per lap faster than reality, sure. But just get it close enough, and go drive and have fun.

[@AndrewGeierMelons]

Now, how, Drew, did you recreate your own race car, one-to-one, to the point that every corner had the exact same speed, to the nearest km/h? I used my real world data, Honda forums for the engine and gearbox info, my buddy's windtunnel CFD simulation software, my buddy's "DIY backyard engineering degree", my own "DIY backyard hodge-podge engineering degree", and intuition. I have 6 years' experience in that car. I set everything up for one track, with one car, with 6 years' worth of data. It would take 6 years of data to make one car and track combination work to the point of being a true simulation. For some reason, the modder whose model I used, he had cranked up downforce and reduced air resistance unrealistically. This car generates 400 pounds of lift at 150 km/h, and has a drag coefficient of 0.37 with the driver and passenger windows removed, not a downforce of 80 pounds at 150 km/h and not a drag coefficient of 0.31 (windows closed). The engine actually makes ~182 bhp at 6726 RPM in as-raced condition, not 190 bhp at 6750 RPM. The tires are actually 235/40ZR17, not 245/40ZR17. However, the tire size was slightly wider because not all 235mm wide tires are actually 235mm wide. Some tire companies make their 235 fit a little wide, like a 245mm wide tire but the difference is 7 mm - the tire is 242 mm wide. The car actually weighs less than the mod, particularly thanks to the smaller diameter brakes - so score one for the real life car actually being slightly faster, for once. Oh, and the steering rack is quicker in real life than in the mod, meaning that your 1080 degree steering rack in the mod was actually 540 degrees in real life. Small difference, right? Huge difference when you're spinning on a wet track. Once I finally got it perfect? I drove 100 laps and I was already bored. The car topping out at 196.7 km/h after 22.6 seconds of full-throttle acceleration meant that you could just about write a novel on the straightaway. Not exciting in the slightest. The AI couldn't keep up, even when cranked up to 100% or whatever. I couldn't set up a race because I had so many modified files in the car that it was not going to be something people would download... particularly when they find out that a full-tilt time attack style lap rewards you with a 1:40.1 at Mosport. No one wanted to race or drive that car, as it turns out. Or we could spend a month using one day's worth of data to get it good enough. I know which one would be more popular as a racing platform. Let iRacing adjust it to the same ballpark, but don't chastise them over a few km/h (1, 2, maybe 3 km/h) because I don't want them developing one car and track combination for 6 months.

[@Picks_Productions]

People will keep paying for iRacing even if they don’t enjoy it.

[@ZPS_STG]

I think the main reason why the GTP speeds have gotten way more attention than other physics issues is because they're obvious and measurable. Most of us have never driven a real race car, so we don't know what they're supposed to actually feel like. However, we have enough data that anyone can compare lap times and cornering speeds between iRacing and real life in a quantitative way.

[@OCinneide]

Exactly what I was thinking. And also, even if I think the feeling through my wheel feels "wrong" or my pedals feels "wrong" people will just say it's because I'm using a G29 and need to upgrade my kit. (and they wouldn't be wrong!)

[@renereiche]

Didn't Forza Motorsport 5 do this? Compare lap times and real life driving to gameplay to show how realistic the game was? They even hired a driver and a sim racer, set the sim race rig at the Nürburgring Dottinger Höhe, and have the race driver and the sim racer (in FM5) have a go at it and they both were very comparable in split screen. So, yes, lap times says basically nothing. Though, I have to say, comparing stuff like brake distances and drag times from of production cars in real life (taken from car magazine tests) and compare them to different sim racing games is pretty interesting in my opinion.

[@Schmawlik]

There is quite a number of people that I know that should probably watch this video. Utilizing lap time as a gauge to determine whether or not something is realistic, is a losing approach. If a sim car hits realistic lap times, but does so due to lowered engine power, reduced tyre grip, increased drag, no regenerative torque, etc, then is the sim car even really trying to simulate the real life counterpart? Also, excellent points you brought up about the varying conditions present in real life vs simulators.

[@danielebrambilla2290]

Yeah man, in fact the laptimes are not the issue, only the proof the issue exists.

[@Schmawlik]

@@danielebrambilla2290 I wasn't saying there aren't issues present, but lap times in general are only a good indicator if they are so significantly different than real life. It's not a catch-all flag.

[@danielebrambilla2290]

@Schmawlik I didn't say that, I was actually agreeing with you 🤷🏻‍♂️ The thing is feeling is subjective, laptimes and cornering speeds aren't, which is why they are good enough indicators. Not a one fits all solution but surely it's better than just saying "I think this is not realistic".

[@Schmawlik]

@@danielebrambilla2290 I was just disputing the 'proof the issue exists', portion of the comment. Cornering speeds are definitely a better metric, in which case we know iRacing is off in this regard, which will lead to that significant delta to the real life lap times.

[@pornhubmante]

well the main issue is that these cars are driving as fast as an LMP1 was around le mans. This is an unacceptable release state for a game that costs this much, a big QA hole where no sane human could expect a realistic feeling on the new tyre model at release when you're giving GTP cars the speed of LMP1s. First of all, iRacing MARKETS ITSELF as realistic, its not just a tag people started giving it due to some features. Being an entire regulation set behind as far as car speeds go is insanely bad, because as someone else that i cant remember said in a video about this issue, a car should be fun in a sim because the real life counter part is. Le mans Ultimate is to me the best sim out there at the moment because the cars are exact replicas under all aspects of the real thing. The electric system of the LMHs is so advanced in the sim that you can literally adopt real life strategies in both the braking phase and the high speed corners playing around the electric system, especially by using that front tyres electric grip. You are on the limit and have to rely on that extra stability gained by using 10% throttle so that only the front wheel electric motors come in and save your ass, it's so noticeable in the Porsche curves at le mans. When iRacing gives it prime LMP1 era grip and aero, they're taking away the entire point of releasing for 14 dollars a car that is 80% different than anything else in that LMDh class. You cant even notice the main differences. I really suggest anyone playing iRacing to buy le mans ultimate, play offline for an hour or so trying at least 2 LMHs and 2LMDhs and feel the insane difference between all of them. That is what a sim should feel like, it could have the worst balanced cars ever but the sole fact that there is such a difference between cars and each adapt to a different driving style as real life ones do balances for that. A simulator should make me feel like i'm there, iracing makes me feel likes i'm part of something bigger than anything else in the sim space, but it never gave me the feeling of being in a real car as even assetto corsa can

[@robingerhardpopma2587]

Subscribed! ;-) I've been an iRacing member for '15 years' or so, doing real life trackdays and driftdays for over 20 years and I couldn't agree more. Take the good (also already 10 year) old AC and you know what real life physics are. Cheers Robin

[@bual9632]

6:09 "GPT stuff" so iRacing physics are written by Chat GPT, now that explaines everything

[@GamerMuscleVideos]

Everything is AI these days

[@DiariesOfABadDriver]

​@@GamerMuscleVideosexcept the ai racing, that's scripted by Forza players

[@FcoEnriquePerez]

@@GamerMuscleVideos Not yet in the best sim, AC(1) where the good modders still do their stuff, some of them don't even like the "ai physics" that a certain group is doing lol

[@ADX77]

Seems like GTPs are a step in the right direction. Ill patiently wait another 15 years while the iron out the kinks.

[@MadMike991]

I hear you but things like tire models and handling can’t be boiled down to a single number like lap times or corner speeds. If there was an easy benchmark for the tire model that showed how bad it was, people would be just as upset!

[@BigDuke6ixx]

Is it a tyre model problem? They've had countless 'new tyre models'. I gave up with it years ago.

[@lunarazoris41]

iRacing for me is more about the dirt aspect of things. all of the dirt cars feel 1 to 1, so i dont understand the delay for asphalt to do the same.

[@lukede6555]

I love iracing for the racing. If I want to enjoy ragging any car at the limit at any track I go to raceroom or AC1. If I want to do crazy scenario races with mates I go to AMS2. I’d love iracing to have better tyre behaviour at the grip limit but I’m more than happy for the distinctions between the sims that makes them all enjoyable in their own way.

[@martin-hall-northern-soul]

Perhaps the glacial speed of development at iracing has caught up with them, other sims are tearing along at a pace of knotts whilst the iracing devs literally spend years on features that other sims roll out in a quarter such as rain and a new UI. More than that, they seem to have a knack on spending years on features which dilute it's USP a.k.a. it's playerbase for online racing. Indirectly connected comments to the tenet of the video, admittedly, but perhaps a contribution to an explanation as to why the narrative is shifting around the product over the past several months.

[@ShadowFalcon]

Honestly, Ive had this rule, ever since I started burning bridges with the sim community over PCARS 3. None of us know how the steering rack of an LM Hypercar feels, while going through Tertre Rouge, so any talk about whether FFB is good, is honestly moot imo. And if you can't even put together a simple Free-Body-Diagram, and a few static friction and Newton's second law equations, then your argument is a bit wishy-washy. Basically, in summary, I believe the sim-community is fooling themselves about what's "arcade" and what's "realistic", and that honestly, they're all just games.

[@jonhartley7238]

Why couldn't you have said this years ago, GM? C'mon, you've been holding out on us; you knew iRacing tyres were broken but you kept it to yourself. For shame!

[@charlesgutscher1923]

I guess what's funny to me is, the same people that are calling this out and are up and arms are also slobbing on the knob of LMU as the latest king, the most accurate and most realistic thing ever. Meanwhile, at spa, last week. The Top split guys were running low 2:17s in LMGT3 spec cars. The world record lap at spa in LMGT3 is 2:20.5 and some change. 3.5 seconds slower than top split race pace in LMU. Crickets.

[@BIGFOOTsim98]

biggest downside to LMU is the fact the game allows you to run extra assists than what the car gives you. So maxed out stability control coupled with ABS allows for less traction control dependency in car which enables faster lap times. Game pad supports is also well more optimized than iracing and i actually see a slight comp advantage there though i may be wrong with that. If LMU would disable assists for online comp I think it would benefit. iRacing to LMU..... I've been on iracing for 13 years and i can say LMU drives far better.... I can see LMU taking on professional sim racing comp once they get everything 100% dialed in. May even be able to get an official professional esports league that shadows WEC.

[@RyanHellyer]

I just don't see how an error like this could happen. If you were making a car mod, then surely your simplest metric to build it to, is the speed it can do at various parts of a race track. They clearly have all that information from the real life series, so not matching them up in sim, at least vaguely accurately, seems very odd to me. Like how does that even happen!? It's as if they didn't even bother checking the performance of the car before releasing it.

[@GamerMuscleVideos]

I don't know, sims are complex 😆

[@thebigcat499]

I want to complain about all those people complaining about people complaining . Drink more tea .

[@GamerMuscleVideos]

I'm sorry but I'm going to have to complain about this complaint

[@chriswright5016]

I realize that the European perspective tends to overlook this, but there's lots of American racing series that you can't do on PC any other way than iRacing. Although I have all the content, I do think that the stock car and dirt racing stuff is about the best thing in the sim. And I agree that as long as a car is fun to drive, that's usually good enough.

[@CatToaster]

Yes, that's so overlooked all the time. It's not even european if you throw just open wheelers to the mix or just anything that's not IMSA/WEC. There are simply no other cars in ACC, LMU, Rennsport. So there are only GT3 and LMP where you have choices on what Sim to play and that's it. I'd never signed up for iRacing in 2011 for "GT-Cars" (they had just the first McLaren back then and the Ford "GT"). It doesn't help if people point out "superior sims" (in there eyes), that do like 2% of the cars iRacing does and if a dev focusses on that, I really expect that they are really good at that!

[@louiienation8497]

Moral of the story: Every sim has its flaws. This one was about iRacing.

[@stevep927]

I have lots of iRacing content from years ago and signed for a month. The physics of the cars are horrible compared to GT7. People have to tell you it's better because they have a lot of money invested in it. Not to mention the graphics are so 1990.

[@RonaldRegain]

You know driving first corner in Sebring with 260kph instead 180kph like real life isn't fun on multiclass races. So I'd say if it was 20kph off novody cared. But its sometimes double the corner speed wich makes racing not easier. It's way more stressful esp. close racing.

[@robertbrown1778]

I want to complain about this video. I was mislead into subscribing on the promise that I'd be able to rage-unsubscribe, only to find that I am in total agreement with the observations made herein and therefore unable to. Isn't it just typical of the kind of underhand tactics we've come to expect from gm. Subscribed hostage.

[@Blacktop503]

Yes. I gave up Iracing in 2015 and it seems the the reason I gave it up still exists.

[@mikecoates5574]

The funny thing to me is physics seems like a fairly difficult problem to solve in the grand scheme of things. Whereas copying an online ecosystem seems kind of like a fairly easy thing to solve in the grand scheme of things. If iracings phyiscs were as bad as everyone elses attempt at online racing, it would have the physics of an early 90s handheld game like pole position.

[@olliebrown89]

Is this collection of videos a christmas special called the 12 rants of christmas?

[@haimmynz1903]

As someone who races at an amateur, who cars what the lap times are. Whats important is the feel of the vehicles and obviously, the fun aspect. I would argue that it is more important to have cars that handle well, can be driven fast by different driving styles, and to have fun competitive enviroments.......seems there are no sims that do that

[@GamerMuscleVideos]

Basically need AC1 tire physics and FFB , with iracing online , voice chat , RF2 suspension and tire ware / tire temps , GT7 user numbers , AMS2 graphics

[@matthewsanderson4882]

​@@GamerMuscleVideos so when is this sim being released?

[@yorha2j525]

Tried iracing for 3 months My biggest issue with it is how slick the tires are compared to assetto corsa I slip out so easily while feeling like I’m barely going 10 mph but I’m also a trash driver and have been sim racing for 12 months lol

[@GamerMuscleVideos]

You have to roll onto the limit and generally drive under it in iracing , AC allows you to push into the limit and counter steer on power more naturally or purposely go into corners too hot leaning on tires. Honestly iracing clicked for me when I started to think of the cars as bobsleds with a trajectory based totally on entry speed. It's a good skill to learn to be honest

[@8Tarkus8]

I just want to say I love how you "endorse" yourself at the beginning of the videos by encouraging people to subscribe and like the video, you still do it like everybody else but you do it in your own funny and unique way, which stands out.

[@RogerClotet]

Love the epic/dramatic background music, it helps set the grave tone of the accusations. Luckily we won't need to care about inferior simulators once AC Evo is released and humanity can be happy again.

[@JaegerLeo]

Extremely well said, iRacing community is incredible toxic and it does get pretty annoying no one pust them in their place.

[@GamingXPTV]

And if you deploy battery this video plays at 2x speed

[@lennart8700]

Iracing is more of a fast-driving school simulator. You get punished for everything bad for a car or a person in that car.

[@scubieroo05]

iracing finally has proper tires and they now realize how messed up the rest of their physics had to be to simulate the old tires in a reasonable fashion?

[@yanushkowalsky1402]

they focused on having exactly IRL breakpoints too much...

[@brandonchappell4030]

Still not even close to being proper. I am now sure they cannot fix them.

[@susswinnen]

I think if you want to race the GTP's in a more realistic way, just play LMU, if you want the competition system, play I Racing. LMU will continue to improve and with the userbase growing and the split system starting to work, and driver swaps comming, it will eventually become as competitive as Iracing. however That's only one series with 3 classes. I racing has a lot more to offer. I'll be able to simrace again in february. I'll buy both games and just enjoy both, one for the fun and competition and one for the fun and realism. It doesn't have to be only A or B look at blood types AB exists as well !

[@jenscee7679]

The speed thing is truly silly on the new iracing car…but I did league races at Snetterton in the rain on iracing last night and it was loads of fun. But you can’t help thinking it would be better with better tyres. It still has that “I spun but have no idea why” feel. As a fellow Brit, I appreciate the tea jokes and self deprecation.

[@murfenator82]

Somehow i knew before the video started that he'd be complaining about iracings tire model lolol

[@jasonoak4564]

The current thread on the iRacing forum is hilarious. People are DEMANDING this gets fixed immediately and are acting as if iRacing is manufacturing faulty baby car seats. People just need to chill.

[@HDRGamingHub]

They have all the right to do so because most people spent more than £1000 in Iracing.

[@ogpeekhal]

How you know chatGPT wrote his script

[@marcusmiller8267]

I quit iRacing because of that physics issue, as well as the driving standards. I saw where they were taking steps to improve those things. So I signed up for another year. I must say, I was very impressed with the Lotus 79 (new tire update) and very much enjoyed a 20 lap race at Watkins Glen! Can’t wait for the full tire update.

[@RacingAnt]

Lotus 79 is on the previous tyre model. But, you make a valid point. iRacing is constantly evolving and improving. If someone's basing their opinion of iRacing on how it drove 2 years ago, then they don't know what they're talking about.

[@marcusmiller8267]

@@RacingAnt Sorry, and I know you had good intentions. But the L79 is on an improved, if not the NEW tire model. This from the release notes: "Lotus 79 Tire parameters have been updated. The AI version of this car has improved its tire temperature modeling, making it more accurate and comparable to a player-driven car. This improves AI Drivers’ accuracy and performance, especially at extreme temperatures. iRacing setups have been updated." You might want to take it for a spin, I was pleasantly surprised!

[@ImLehwz]

@@marcusmiller8267what Marcus said is true. It wasn’t initially in the patch notes but they later said the Lotus got updated too

[@cbremer83]

Really, this could be as simple as a couple things. One, yeah, the core simulation has an issue but that will possible be hard to smoke out since everything is so interconnected. Like any complex software. Small tweak over here causes crazy issues over there in seemingly unrelated areas. The other "simple" possiblity is some typo is buried in the code. Either way, it will likely get sorted at some point. Main reason I play iRacing mostly is the service it's self. Not as much the simulation. So many other sims are a ghost town online unless your life schedule lines up with a league. I can find a quick 15-30 min race almost at any time of day on any day. That stuff makes up for the issues. At least for me.

[@RacingAnt]

Most likely reason is they've made a mistake in how they've configured the GTP cars. Nothing wrong with iRacing, just the implementation of that one car class.

[@joshjmilli]

I’m a prototype merchant in most sims; They’re typically my first choice of car to race. When the update came on Tuesday, my first reaction was “what the hell” after beating my pb on Daytona by 2 whole seconds. It felt like the devs just turned the grip dial up to 150%. You can smash the brakes without any repercussions. Missed the apex? Don’t worry! Just crank the steering a little more and you’ll be fine. I hope LMU takes off after the driver swap update, because man they’re so far ahead in terms of car feel, despite the flaws that game has. They actually feel dynamic and edgy like they seem in real life, unlike iRacing where they just feel static and shallow to drive.

[@BillyStrangeAutoModels]

I find if I criticize real life physics and speed, then iracing makes more sense

[@RobertLeclercq]

Looks much better aspect ratio wise!! Thanks mate!! I 100% agree the nuance should be considered. We got the hot fix today well see

[@DaveAdams222]

I wonder if people are forgetting to take into account the threat of death if you so much as blink incorrectly at high speed. I bet most pro drivers can run a given lap time around a circuit that would be seconds upon seconds faster than their IRL times. And most of that would simply boil down to knowing that if you enter a turn too hot in sim, you can just tap Escape and restart your lap.

[@GamerMuscleVideos]

I'd wager a good majority of real world pro drivers , are well past the point of being worried about the danger , they are focused on driving and racing. If they were genuinely on edge from the danger they would drive worse most the time , also race driving is way safer than isl of Man TT and TT riders are calm as cucumbers. Example I like to use , Super G skiing or Rock climbers , as a teenager I knew some kids that were training to be in Olympics and they honestly gave 0 shits about the danger lol and those ski slopes are insane , id happily drive around in a radical on any race track than even go down a super G track at half speed. I'm not saying real drivers are not worried or it plays no effect on things but you can watch a ton of racing up to F1 where drivers are clearly not thinking about there or other drivers safty lol its even worse in rookie series where you would think there would be more concern.

[@stig-osaurusrex2500]

Pro drivers are not leaving seconds of lap time on the table.

[@AndrewGeierMelons]

If you slow down because you are scared in a race car, I will drive faster without that fear. I've raced enough in real life, the fear doesn't get to me anymore until I watch a Senna/Rush/Jim Clark type film/documentary and they talk about drivers dying. I'll cry there, and then hop into a race car and drive at stupid speeds without a thought because it's adrenaline-assisted. I think you kinda have to be a bit fucked in the head to be a racing driver, so I had to basically brainwash myself into not feeling fear. It's the only way that you can convince yourself to stay flat in a Radical SR3 RSX like the one I drove this summer, for example... Although, having said that, I was bored in it because it handles way too well and never feels knife-edge. I think Ferrari 458 Challenge Evo II is more fun. And the best part? Giving a ride-along to a kid who's maybe 11, maybe 12 years old and you're driving at the absolute limit of what the car can do and the kid is just shouting "faster, faster, faster!" Kids don't realise the danger at all. Then you get in with an adult who has never driven on track and give them a lap, and they're not saying anything... Scared but too scared to say anything... or screaming like Augusto Farfus' wife. The average person gets absolutely terrified by riding along with a racing driver at racing driver speeds. Then you get the other racing drivers who are riding along with you, and there are two types - the ultra serious ones who are still going to try to find you lap times or secretly judge you, or the ones who are having too much fun to care. I'm thinking of that video of an MX-5 passing Liam Lawson and Yuki Tsunoda on the Nürburgring; they're just dying of laughter the whole time. Neither proper racing driver is actually afraid until they're about to end up in the wall. There's a split second when something snaps or the brake pedal goes soft, or you hit a slippery patch, where you feel pure terror but 99.99999999999999999999999999% of the time, as a racing driver, you just don't feel fear. It's not there. You're too in-the-zone, too focused. Racing drivers just don't feel it. The problem is, you either start young enough to not feel fear from the get-go and never develop the fear, OR you push yourself to the breaking point where you get over your fear. There's no middle ground. You either start young enough to never feel it, OR, you practice it out of your system.

[@JSmith73]

Kudos, earned yourself another proper (albeit entry level!) subscriber with this one. You're on a great run of videos now, having said that! 😊

[@JSmith73]

Oh and the new GTPs are an absolute hoot, awesome fun to drive. Never cared for them that much before, but yeah loving them! The new sideways supercars also.

[@GamerMuscleVideos]

@@JSmith73 Yah I had loads of fun driving them so far lol , I'd like them to have a bit lower grip in some ways or maybe lower downforce but i think they will be a blast to race lol.

[@hefewe1zen940]

Ok so the argument of the video is: just because lap times are wrong, it can still be a realistic simulator. The video ignores the fact that iRacing doesn’t only get the lap times wrong, it has also go unrealistic tyre physics and unrealistic handling. Then comes the ultimate argument: it doesn’t need to be realistic because it’s meant to be fun. Why can’t we acknowledge that iRacing is a poor simulation of motor racing??

[@GamerMuscleVideos]

No the video doesn't make that argument

[@DannyRhym3z]

Old tea drinking man shouting at cloud: STOP HAVING FUN GUYS! Love it. Good stuff

[@GamerMuscleVideos]

Lol my point would be have fun regardless , we have great time on iracing and flight sim

[@richardthompson8739]

Word on the street is that iracing physics are from ridge racer with a couple of patches .

[@brandonchappell4030]

Btw… the new tire model on the gen3 Supercars and new BMW… still are not even close. So I really have no hope for Iracing anymore. I have been on the service for over 10 years and have payed every year for it… frankly after this “new” tire model being an utter failure in my eyes.. I may just be done for a while. It is incredible they can’t produce something even remotely that feels like a real tire.

[@irpk239]

How do i go about seeing where the splits are on the course? The time splits. Can anyone help?

[@llavaert]

I played the porsche cup car all weekend, and I went insane. Every time I spun I was like NO WAY I could have avoided that unless I'd drive at 80%

[@pbshooter100]

I agree with your premise that it would be best if cars drove realistically and the realism of everything else, lap times, etc, was secondary. Also it is fact that he one thing that makes iRacing number one is its robust online racing environment period.

[@PaulMartIn-dm5oi]

I think you're unreasonable expecting iRacers to be reasonable.

[@SvalbardSleeperDistrict]

I think you're being unreasonable by hyperbolising and generalising about a section of the simracing community.

[@ne_mz]

@@SvalbardSleeperDistrict struck a nerve did it

[@SvalbardSleeperDistrict]

@@ne_mz If you think someone pointing out a problem in your judgement is about "striking a nerve" and not about you having a problem, that says more about you than anyone else.

[@ne_mz]

@@SvalbardSleeperDistrict you replied to someone else making a joke in all seriousness. That says alot about you my friend. Think first before you type, gunfingers

[@SvalbardSleeperDistrict]

@@ne_mz My replies are based on what the person says - their retroactive "oh it was a joke" attempts at presenting something in a certain way barely does anything post factum. I can do cynical "struck a nerve"s with your comments first and then go with "oh but was a joke" after you - rightly - respond in seriousness to that behaviour. Think first before you type, indeed.

[@MrNgray006]

NO BATTLEEEEEE!

[@spraynardkruger6426]

I think its pretty simple. The blatantly obvious speed differences make it clear that the work just isnt being done. Yes, the other problems are more important but harder to explain, this is just blatant. Of course youll get pitchforks. Nows the time for you to say "told you so"

[@vx220ukct]

The Morad thing was him comparing the GT3 car (with a setup) against the old one he drove (991), he admitted he hasnt driven the new (992)

[@GamerMuscleVideos]

Fair enough but the porsche cup car in iracing is insane , as is any car that tends to get right onto tires like Porsche tend to do. ironically porsche cup is the best car to drive in AC,ACC,RF2 lol due to how they need to be finessed and how they are sort of a dog of a car but also so drivable lol , needless to say they don't need to be driven like a brick laden bob sled in any other sim. There are amazing onboards of Porsche cup races and drivers massively over driving them or just driving them quickly in slip looks amazing to drive but also super hard to be fast in.

[@StuM91]

Maybe I need to try out the cup car in another sim. The old cup car was one of my favorites in iRacing, it felt like it was always on the edge but was driveable at the same time. The current cup cur feels like I'm steering a boat around the track.

[@vx220ukct]

I think the problem is this.. you cant feel the threshold braking in a non ABS car.. i track a non ABS car and have no problems what so ever. I think once we start to see the active pedals become more mainstream this will become less of an issue.

[@michael1]

Guy online can't understand why people are talking more about the latest release or update to a game rather than stuff that's been in it for ages...more at 11.

[@f1_onboardsAC]

The truth is that I do not see iRacers keep talking about other sims, but the whole community keeps constantly the eye on iRacers. You can enter to any LMU pro stream and see that they are 500% of the time speaking about iRacing, the basic stuff of your channel is making (often undocumented) iRacing hate comments.

[@hpisloud1]

You're really taking a controversial stance here....siding with real world racers is a bold move.

[@XavierGoncalves89]

T1 at Bathurst in the v8 supercars, drivers IRL are full throttle on second gear as soon the car is at the very exit of the corner, in racing, second gear is a recipe for fishtailing all over the track, "muh realism"

[@f1_onboardsAC]

You made this exact comment on the forums. Someone posted a video of an irl driver on this generation of Supercars in bathurst with telemetry. Throttle application was exact comparing sim and real in that corner. I really don’t think they are too difficult compared to real life.

[@XavierGoncalves89]

@ thx, will check it out

[@f1_onboardsAC]

@@XavierGoncalves89 check the thread on car’s subforum mate

[@usleadershipareliars]

Dear fellow iracers, Don't he salty, ita not his fault some of your wives are dating men with high T levels who go to ufc events, instead of Gamecon. Take it all in I love you

[@nickhitchcock3277]

Thank you for you insight!

[@EndureRacing]

It's a bit difficult for us who have never driven a Hypercar to say it doesn't handle right or behave as it should. That's why the lap time and cornering speeds are what people are using. But, I'd rather have a realistic representation of a car. You can still have fun with that

[@jamisonleckenby2355]

I am confused by one of your points. While the outcry for the recent GTP change has been loud, the complaints of the tire model, driving under the limit and generally wrong physics have been there constantly for years. The forums, KZbin and reddit love to point these problems out. The only reason the current voices are so loud right now is because the GTP problem is so obvious and recent while the other problems have been around for a long time. Once this change is fixed I can guarantee you that the old complaints will come back into focus (assuming they aren't finally addressed by iRacing).

[@GamerMuscleVideos]

I agree with you the current "new broken" thing will get more hype behind it and that's why you dis prominently here about it but that in and of itself is quite an intresting thing that some issues people become apathetic to over time or just become accepted so long as they are more vague and complex issues. Most iRacers are like "yes tire model is not great but its ok and you just have to be carful" when in reality the tire physics and way you have to drive is honestly one of the most insane things in sim-racing on the grand scheme of things that a huge number of people just get used to and accept disproportionately because iRacing is the only sim that offers good competition and has great E-sports features and user base. Lol you even have high level promotional videos just waving off these physics issues where if the same promotional stuff were to use Project cars 2 or GT , forza or something else simracers would absoluty rip the shit out of them , but iracing largely gets a free pass. iRacing are doing there best obviously and are doing lots of work recently so that's fantastic its just funny this contrast and also the degree to which narratives are changing in the last year or two.

[@tomfranz8365]

I'm unsure if it's already been mentioned, though I did have a skim through the comments but couldn't see anyone with the same thoughts. I reckon the Ferrari has such high cornering speeds and grip because iRacing have no plans to BOP the GT3s currently in the sim down to the speed the LMGT3s run in WEC. I'm guessing (as I don't necessarily enjoy iRacing so stopped using the sim quite some time ago) the intention is for the Ferrari to join the LMDh's in their IMSA series (where IIRC the GTDs still run significantly faster than the LMGT3s) so as a result they've had to increase its performance relative to the cars it's going to run alongside. That's not to say though that the car in real life isn't capable of the speeds the car is achieving in sim. BOP is applied in both series but we've not yet seen an LMH run in IMSA and, I'm happy to be corrected on this, I don't think we've seen a current LMH be let loose completely in a publicised test session to see how fast this current crop of prototypes can actually run when completely unrestricted.

[@John-ok8ts]

To illustrate the point just look at the difference in practice sessions when the F1 is somewhere in the middle east however what pissed people off wasn't that it was faster but why it was faster.

[@leefisher816]

When you corner in iracing faster in the wet than you do in real life in the dry, the model is fubar

[@studlydudly]

I get the feeling this is iRacing elites unhappy at the direction the tyres are being developed. Can't have the Unwashed Masses (excluding GM) beating the Gentry at their own game.

[@EGaenzle]

Hey lad some of us have thick skin. Ain’t going nowhere!😂🎉😅

[@professorvitoralves]

Porsche Cup cars are terribles to drive, every time I try to drive that thing I remember why I don't drive it, I would like to get my money back on that car, I fell deceived bc I bough it, I can't cancel the purchase and it is a terrible experience racing on that car, you don't need to drive the real car to get that it is far away from reality.

[@flatscreenstevie124]

If you enjoy it!!! Enjoy it. It still is technically a game. I love sim racing, but its never going to be real world. Just enjoy it. Im stuck like a lot of people, just wanting it to be perfect!

[@Masterleechan]

I got in my real car after playing iracing, called Toyota. I told them they needed to fix the physics

[@RelaxSimmer]

KZbinr: Complains how he thinks he made a mistake in a video which will result in negative comments *Proceeds to post the video anyway. Wow

[@GamerMuscleVideos]

Sometimes language is not used entirely literally.

[@d4rkaraik]

Funny how people talk about the Porsche Cup car being unrealistic yet i have met irl drivere who think its pretty close. Even had a supercup driver work on the car. The more I read, watch and drive things myself this whole tyres, physics, aero there is a layer on personal subjective experience to it.

[@GamerMuscleVideos]

What you will probably find is that IRL driver has probably not given other sims much of a chance and has probably only really played i racing and yes in a sense its "prity close" if you then get into an actual in depth conversation about the nature of tires no iracing is not close at all , the tire behaviour is totally off hence why iRacing are working on changing the tires substantially. Yes all people have different opinions but oddly I have found of experienced sim-racers they generally agree on the main aspects they then just put up with different things or drive for different reasons , Online however you have a huge range of views due to people not really putting the time in with different sims or being at different levels with different equipment and random settings and never having being in real cars.

[@GarretSpenstHGF]

1:00 i unsubbed to re sub so i can unsub. might resub again

[@ettorebugatti6846]

It takes a bold man to make these statements 😁

[@GamerMuscleVideos]

Hair loss to 100

[@ettorebugatti6846]

@@GamerMuscleVideos look, i would never joked like this but it was you who started it with Dave. Just to be clear on that.

[@stevelow9225]

I think we all need to get over the iracing hype, they keep going on about how they are pinnacle of sim racing or a racing simulator. Its an upgraded expensive game. Yes the multiplayer matchmaking is without doubt the best out there at the moment. However if they wanted to make it more realistic how about :- proper qualifying with other cars on track, different tyre compounds, safety cars.... the three hours endurance should have safety cars...in fact all endurance races should have safety cars, Engine wear and some. At this moment in time I will carry on with iracing but soon another sim will take up these things and that will give me reason to change.... and save myself a fortune.

[@F1Jackz]

Personally the new physics are fundamentally better, all it kinda needs is just less grip, but it feels much more natural to drive

[@bringersbob]

I enjoy sim racing mainly because real life is expensive and I have a smaller chance of killing myself in a sim. If i drove the sim like real life I wouldn't be fast.

[@109benn]

Fun is the most important aspect of a Game. After all its a GAME for PLAYing.

[@smithp573]

I still don’t understand why there’s a WEC car in with the GTPs. But I’m thick.

[@hhistertheosis]

How dare you to call Morad nice? Unsubscribe.