The Ancient Neo-Platonist Attack on Gnosticism - Plotinus Against the Gnostics

[@TheEsotericaChannel]

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[@beepboop204]

it is interesting to think about modern capitalism and how very Platonist it can get. it really does seem that Plato's ideas and methodological approach casts a very long shadow indeed 👀

[@patientdiligence2783]

Where do we go for the shirts?

[@TheEsotericaChannel]

@@beepboop204 Plato would hated capitalism for all the reasons he hated democracy

[@colorpg152]

Plotinus sounds like absolute fool how can a world with so much evil be considered beautiful, the men's ignorance must have been without limit

[@TheAngeloMichael]

Justin, ❤ this channel, could you explain the differences in these stories about Pistis Sophia? The Gnostic interpretations and many people’s interpretations of Pistis Sophia don’t reconcile with the actual discourse in The Pistis Sophia 1-6, in this manual it was clear she was run out of the 13th and lured into the chaos, that was formed by Adamas/self will/ 3rd triple light power. He despised her for pursuing the mysteries of light and not his mysteries of Congress. It was he that emanated the chaos and yaldabaoth, the light that lured her. Adamas is the demiurge in this discourse of 1st Mystery. In further her plunge into the chaos and error was by the will of the 1st commandment . It is the story of faith,wisdom,power and grace for today’s generation to unlock the embedded vestures within the soul. It is about how we got here and how we get home. It is a manual that few understand with a casual read. Can you do a deeper dive and a comparative ? The Pistis Sophia is a self stated source teaching, much deeper and more detailed than people understand. Thanks

[@LetsTalkReligion]

Such a fantastic and important video! There is a tendency to view all ancient "paganism" as basically the same, but this shows the internal diversity between a lot of schools of thought in a way that is much needed. Happy to be part of this project!

[@TheEsotericaChannel]

Yep, it really gives the lie to any monolithic conception of "Christian vs Pagan" because both were actually (1) internally diverse and (2) a species of one might be intellectually closer to a species of the other, e.g., proto-orthodoxy (Origen, etc., even though he got canceled later) and Plotinus are closer to one another (c.f., Augustine, Pseudo-Dionysius) than to Platonising Sethianism. But yes, it was a honor to work with you all - thanks so much for your brilliant exposition of a difficult topic. Here's to working together for years to come!

[@baying_of_the_hounds6513]

This is so true, not just in terms of elite philosophical schools, but on regional, urban, and rural levels. I think there's a tendency among classicists to present a pan-Mediterranean polytheism (I use polytheism in place of paganism here as I feel paganism is a tad anachronistic in the period). I recently started reading Frankfurter's Religion in Roman Egypt, he makes the point that just as there were Christianities and Judaisms, there was also a diverse and intersecting array of polytheism. This becomes especially pronounced in the wake of cultural interaction which happened through the spread of Hellenism.

[@smrtfasizmu7242]

@@AnnhilateTheNihilist pagan isn't atheist in modern speech. Atheists already existed at the time of Jesus and have most likely existed as long as theism has, additionally pagan religions still exist and are practiced currently and most certainly aren't atheists (not most of us anyway)

[@Texasgoldandsilvernetwork]

I do appreciate this guy in turning me on to areas I need to explore so I can connect the dots of TRUTH. Plotonic beliefs are one. Pluto is circling back around coincidentally. It is the first time in modern history and coincides somewhat with the “founding” of America (not discovery). Think LAND GRANTS and the demi-liars who received those grants. Our people were put out after being murdered and enslaved by invaders. The “Irish” were not treated so well. We mainly descend from those “Irish” Celts who were here FIRST. He also ALWAYS let me know what NOT to believe in. It is hard to watch his condescending scoffing attitude but you do have good presentations of documents and charts. People: The soul is the MATERIAL BODY & MIND. Worry about CONNECTION TO SPIRIT and your HIGHER SELF. We need to free ourselves from the shackles of the material and LEAVE this existence. That’s deliverance to the true promised land. People: FREE YOURSELVES FROM THAT HUMAN JEALOUS RAGING MURDERING RAPlNG MONSTER YAHWEH. ACTUALLY READ THE OLD TESTAMENT. He was no god! Same for his Wife, Ashera but they might actually have been one in the same. What god gets married, has children and gets DIVORCED?? Yahweh was just a man or woman who was basically some type of feudal Lord. DO NOT BE FOOLED! ESCAPE THE MIND-SOUL BONDAGE. Thank the most high Gods of the Universe that only 31% of Americans Trust the “Church” realizing it is NONSENSE to ENSLAVE. JUDEO & “CHRISTIAN” HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH EACH OTHER. We have become our own jailers and their conversion by the sword is no longer required. Stockholm Syndrome has a hold on us. We are Indo in origin. Hinduism is WAY CLOSER but it is actually Vedic belief we belong to. Look to the Sanskrit as Latinized “new” languages DID A 180 IN THE TRANSLATION OF KEY WORDS. The Avatar of Jesus Christ as a Risen Master, came to earth MANY times. Jesus Christ Superstar was created by those who killed him or her. Christ NEVER spoke Hebrew or Aramaic. If anything we would call his/her language OLD GREEK. The new languages are gutter language for the uneducated masses. You are TRAPPED only by the SOUL MIND and garbage belief systems. IT IS GIGO. The Kabbalah is closer but it is pure plagiarism as is New Age nonsense. Hermeticism and Vedic belief was there WAY BEFORE. I like to look to the ROOT & THE SOURCE.

[@Texasgoldandsilvernetwork]

@@AnnhilateTheNihilist Doesn’t mean Atheist. FAR FROM IT.

[@drangelapuca]

This was so interesting, friend! I'm so grateful we have your educational content here on KZbin! 🥰

[@TheEsotericaChannel]

Thanks, friend - It's wonderful to share this platform with you. Looking forward to working together more in the new year - hope you are enjoying being home!

[@heterian97]

Gnostics: the material world is tainted, corrupt and the source of suffering. We have to trascend it despite it. Neo-Platonists: The material world is a reflection of the One, and beautiful though imperfect. We have to trascend it through it. Mahayana Buddhists that accept both Sutra and Tantra: Why not both?

[@SeekersofUnity]

What a superb episode Dr. Sledge. This one felt personal ;) It’s a real honour to be creating content alongside you and the rest of the wonderful gang. Glad to be giving Neoplatonism its proper place in intellectual history.

[@TheEsotericaChannel]

Thanks, I'm just blessed to have such a wonderful community of creators to work with. And, yes, I think Irenaeus and Plotinus are on the money ;)

[@simonmagus2199]

had no idea your channel existed, subbed

[@TheModernHermeticist]

@@simonmagus2199 the power of collabs revealed!

[@silentobserver888]

@@TheModernHermeticist the best collabs on KZbin for a fact!

[@beanndip]

@@simonmagus2199 this channel is insane. The historical accuracy, the quality scripting, the wit and humor, the video aesthetic is all superb. And the content itself of course is always highly interesting.

[@GR-kt4le]

0:01 Introduction 3:28 Gnostics 11:23 Plotinus’ critique 12:30 Metaphysical arguments 16:00 Cosmological arguments 19:52 Ethical arguments 26:26 Conclusion 28:15 References

[@logike77]

Thanks for the explanation. I have some gnostic friends who say there is no difference between Neoplatonism and Gnosticism, which simply isn't true. They don't understand the force behind Plotinus' criticism. In spite of the imperfection of matter which is almost non-existent absent form, with some exceptions the Greek philosophers in general had an optimistic view of the universe. Reality is ordered in a hierarchy, and it all emanates from the the One, the Good, from absolute perfection in order of grades to what is less perfect; it was not a dualism between pure good and pure evil. That difference in metaphysics and attitude toward matter is what persuaded me to Neoplatonism. Great channel!

[@okasa64]

"If you want Aeons, they got Aeons. They got Aeons for days around here." ~ Dr. Sledge

[@Yamikaiba123]

What's the history of having no distinction between Soul and Spirit? Was there no distinction? Did the notion of the Torah's living soul (the interaction of breath and earth) survive in any philosophy during this period? וַיִּ֩יצֶר֩ יְהֹוָ֨ה אֱלֹהִ֜ים אֶת־הָֽאָדָ֗ם עָפָר֙ מִן־הָ֣אֲדָמָ֔ה וַיִּפַּ֥ח בְּאַפָּ֖יו נִשְׁמַ֣ת חַיִּ֑ים וַֽיְהִ֥י הָֽאָדָ֖ם לְנֶ֥פֶשׁ חַיָּֽה׃

[@Yamikaiba123]

As an aside, I figured out how to get Google's TTS engine to correctly recite the Masoretic accentuation and punctuation for this verse by replacing the cantillation signs with spacing, line breaks, and English punctuation. וַיִּ יצֶר יְהֹוָה אֱלֹהִים, אֶת־הָ אָדָם: עָפָר, מִן־הָ אֲדָמָה; וַיִּפַּח בְּאַפָּיו, נִשְׁמַת חַיִּים: וַ יְהִי הָ אָדָם, לְנֶ פֶשׁ חַיָּה.

[@CaitlinElm]

I’m a scholar of modern English language literature, and these close readings and explorations of foundational written texts give such great context for reading modern texts and exegeses thereof. Thank you again for sharing, Dr Sledge!

[@metaexile]

"If you want aeons, they got aeons. They got aeons for days around here" 😂 That cracked me up!

[@MK0118]

Man, this collaboration is amazing!

[@samuel56551]

It is very gratifying to see highly intelligent , erudite and articulate commentaries upon esoteric , Hermetic and occult topics here on KZbin. Hopefully , this will serve as some counterbalance to the dumbing down or outright denigration of these subjects , which is so rife across all media .

[@michelleburkholder2547]

Got the whole gang on this. Already watched Philips episode on the subject. Going to check out Angela's show now. Love you guys.

[@KushDaddy333]

This is where I come when I need a break from the hectic pace of my life. Always interesting, intelligent and thought provoking. It takes me far away from my day to day routine and into the realm of historical figures, magic, religion and the arcane. Each episode is a feast for the intellect. Topped off with a smattering of dry humour from the good doctor himself. Thank You Dr. Sledge! Happy New Year.

[@mysticalmindstate9692]

Dude I literally just picked up a copy of the apocryphon of John. Well, that and like 15 or so other texts but still. Thank you for giving us a starting point as to where to research. Love your channel. You’re a gem of the community

[@forgetful9845]

Does anyone ever notice the similarities of Puritanism and Gnosticism? A view of the world as evil, a specific class of individuals destined for salvation, etc, its pretty interesting

[@spiritnone2818]

Puritans honored material success, wealth was a reward. The sexual restrictions we associate with Puritans were actually the Quaker's; the Puritans actually considered a fulfilling sexual life a necessary aspect of marriage. I think our commonsense view of Puritanism is ahistorical.

[@vegadog3053]

Thanks!

[@TheEsotericaChannel]

Many thanks!

[@vegadog3053]

@@TheEsotericaChannel thank you for all the wonderful content and resource recommendations. You need to produce a syllabus btw.

[@bloglivethehighve]

So good to have you to share the last Friday of 2022,with! Thk you Doc for all the explained Ism's along the way! May you have a blessed and prosperous 2023!🎊🌟💜

[@ewantaylor2758]

It was actually this Polemic that drew my attention to Neoplatonism for the first time. I had an issue with how Gnosticism seemed to consider the world fundamentally evil, it's certainly imperfect but I just couldn't justify seeing it as evil, nor justify rejecting the material world entirely. So I was very happy to see that others had the same objections.

[@spiritnone2818]

The valentinians didn't see the demiurge as evil but simply misguided, so they didn't consider the material world evil but simply imperfect. But they did think it had to be rejected entirely because it was an imperfect _mistake,_ with no positive purpose. Just saying that maybe your view of gnosticism is a bit reductive, though you're not fundamentally wrong.

[@ewantaylor2758]

@spiritnone2818 True, these were first impressions when I was pretty new to the subject, and more about my own opinions than totally detached study.

[@J_Z913]

Another amazing video with some awesome collaboration partners. I'll definitely be watching those next. I may even have to listen to the SHWEP episodes on Plotinus again to get my full fix of Neoplatonism/Late Platonism.

[@sethcable2322]

Yes! I've long been hoping for something that would trace the influence of Plotinus and Neo-Platonism through Western/Abrahamic Esotericism & Mysticism!! This is fantastic!

[@DeaconOfTheDank]

Gotta love this channel. Always leaves me with curious questions to ponder and the desire to learn more. Keep doing what you're doing!

[@OolongTeaGreen]

Thanks for that. Great exposition and you make a compelling case for Plotinus' criticisms of sethian gnosticism. Especially the later ones such as spiritual elitism and disdain for the material world. Happy New Year! Looking forward to more great content and awesome collaborations like this in 2023.

[@SobekLOTFC]

Great job, Dr Sledge 👍 Seconded: 'Apocalypse of the Alien God' is 🔥

[@TheEsotericaChannel]

Great text.

[@nickgangadis8679]

Thank you for such a illuminating talk. You are putting so many puzzle pieces into place.

[@messnerkr]

always enjoy your talks. just FYI in case you are unaware, the (auto-?) captioning in some spots on this vid seems to mistake the word "esoterism" as "terrorism". in case you find your work inexplicably demonetized, maybe something to check on. (Though as they say, you can't spell "demonetize" without "demon".)

[@chrisradzion2148]

Brilliant as usual. One of my favorite parts of Esoterica videos are the little, subtle jokes and references (the hashtag perfectlygoodpagans, for example). Looking forward to the next one, keep up the good work!

[@johnphillips4776]

Nature is both beautiful and chaotic. The same goes for the foundation of the material world. That argument gets cleared up relatively easy with this explanation @26:51 the architecture aside, the gnostics are analyzing the *character of the architect.* The Demiurge is not good

[@geraldmeehan8942]

Thank you for your expertise and insight Dr Sledge

[@situationnormal2217]

I liked this video more than I had hoped. I love this channel already.

[@dougiescare]

Thanks for addressing the demiurge and archons which are hot new topics for people to discuss incorrectly in metaphysical/paranormal spaces nowadays.

[@TheEsotericaChannel]

How do you think people get it wrong, in your experience?

[@dougiescare]

@@TheEsotericaChannel in these cases, people are always looking for a new antagonist, or just a new source of spiritual power to revere. People who casually "chase" mythologies get burned out and then ultimately disillusioned as they miss out on any meaning or lesson and realize that it's yet another shadow that cannot soothe their existential loneliness. I see the internet getting more and more extreme with their "beliefs" which is why I love your channel so much because you give us meaning with "boring" schools of thought.

[@TheEsotericaChannel]

Yeah, that sounds really tiring. I'm glad I don't really have a dog in pretty much any of these fights.

[@simonmagus2199]

​​​@@dougiescare yeah I've noticed that too. it's like they're trying out these obscure esoteric religions like clothes, just because they think it would sound cool to be able to tell people "I'm a gnostic" or "I'm a hermeticist" after only skimming the wikipedia entry, and not even really understanding what it's about. the whole new age, anti-intellectual, anti-science movement is really bothersome, which is why having channels like this one - academic, scholarly, learned discussion - is so rare and valuable

[@vitkovitsmate7281]

@@dougiescare Thanks for perfectly summarising my experiences as well. Chasing mythologies is a good thing, but applying philosophy and using this information in a creative, meaningful way is a very hard task at hand. It needs a very broad perspective coupled with creative intellect, which is truly a divine Gift for those who search tirelessly for the highest Truth and higher, broader ontological levels of harmony. For me personally, the concept of Tikkun in Lurianic Kabbalah helped me find a meaning and a goal. Because abstract advaita metaphisics lacks concepts such as goal or meaning, but living as a human requires an eschatological goal as well.

[@toddtaylor4649]

Another wonder slice of scholarly content pie. Thank you Dr. Sledge.

[@mysteryneophyte]

I think it’s fascinating the way the cultures and deep spiritual thought and metaphysics and stuff all came together in Alexandria. I’ve always been so fascinated with it and Platanus and Neoplatonism especially. I’ve probably read and reread The Enneads like a dozen times or more

[@mat7083]

I do wonder. How is this in any way applicable to daily life?

[@Tom-sd9jb]

Try to live by the 4 cardinal virtues, introspect and try to find reconciliation between the opposites within yourself, think/reflect on it all ("everything"). Sit in silence and allow yourself to experience the devine. Learn your lessons and eventually get off the wheel and make your way back to The One. If you don't learn your lessons by the time you're dead, have another go. This is what I got from this in a nutshell.

[@gnostic_oblivion]

The presentation of your knowledge is a joy to listen to 😊

[@migueldantasguerreiro1911]

This video is great really congratulations! I came here to hear about neoplatonism but I was not disappointed! Scholarly!

[@Ekam-Sat]

Appreciate the highly knowledgeable and passionate teacher.

[@nena_DP]

Great video! Showing the differences straight from the horse's mouth so to speak is a great way of learning both of these schools of thought.

[@AlCapwn369]

This is my new favorite channel on youtube. Thanks.

[@arglebargle42]

@18:10 is that a Marylin Manson reference in the middle of an in depth discussion of the philosophical arguments against gnosticism? Oh you bet I'm subscribing

[@exoplanet11]

That an excellent example of comparative religion. Well done!

[@socialcommentary1014]

“Go jump off a pyramid, or something.” - I laughed way too hard.

[@tapout1382]

Today has been such a fun day checking out you and your colleague's videos. I'm super grateful for the work and scholarship you guys do! Have you ever considered adding timestamps to the videos or do you seem to categorize your ideas based on the images shown? Either way, I'll be tuned in! Thank you again Dr. Sludge!

[@bigernbladesmith]

Awesome lecture. Thanks for sharing.

[@tedpetch6180]

My first experience of the channel, very illuminating.

[@royriley6282]

Juicy primary source based analysis. Subbed with my strongest subfinger.

[@RoseeKilljoy]

Beautiful beautiful work from everyone, all the videos ive seen are perfect!!! I feel lucky to be able to learn about Neoplatonism in this wonderul way

[@TheEsotericaChannel]

Filip Holm @LetsTalkReligion : What is Neoplatonism? (followed by Neoplatonism and Islam): kzbin.info/www/bejne/rIuohqKVqK2ieNk Dr Angela Puca @drangelapuca : Plotinus and Iamblichus on Theurgy and Magic: kzbin.info/www/bejne/on_Un4GgqKx4rq8 Zevi Slavin @SeekersofUnity : From Neoplatonism to Kabbalah, A Mystical Journey: kzbin.info/www/bejne/i57Oi2ZuaLGWjZo Dr. Dan Attrell @TheModernHermeticist : The Platonic Philosophers' Creed by Thomas Taylor: kzbin.info/www/bejne/javHamuPiKxpftU Dr. John Vervaeke @johnvervaeke : Levels of Intelligibility: Neoplatonism & 4E Cognitive Science: kzbin.info/www/bejne/gpPOZJ93a992n8U

[@simonmagus2199]

this is awesome! I was already planning to read the enneads soon; this will be a great primer edit: by the way, would be great to see something about the pistis sophia, there's little to no academic discussion of that on youtube:(

[@TheEsotericaChannel]

It's on the list but that text is a beast!

[@rolenbishop3757]

Good stuff. A lighthouse if you will ,a candle to shed darkness and ignorance. Completely enjoyable.

[@tara5742]

“A wild Jesus Appears!” I love this channel 😂

[@leanderwhite]

I love and appreciate your videos, presence, and eloquent presentation.

[@goblin3359]

Would it be incorrect to say that the Gnosticism was influenced by Hermeticism? The profound anti-materialism you described reminded me a little bit of what I read in the Corpus Hermeticus - the desire to seek Gnosis through transcending material, human realms through knowledge and understanding.

[@dexocube]

Thanks for a neo-platonic new year!

[@reubenbrown3900]

I've been watching your content for some time now and I can't believe that I've just now realized that I wasn't subscribed. Time to fix that.

[@mikcarrillo3527]

Wow, this was a great presentation. On two subjects, never really talk about. When I was in college.

[@christopherneufelt8971]

Kid, you need a lot of guts to go THAT deep. By far the best critique that I ever heard on the subject. Bravo, Bravo.

[@certifiedtopg7596]

Hey Dr Justin Sledge can you make a video concerning The Book of Oberon and the contents of book and where it comes from because I see that you have the Book of Oberon on your shelf

[@TheEsotericaChannel]

Yep, might even be able to bring the scholar that worked on it on the channel. Got to meet him last year - great guy!

[@zakvanderkooi8419]

I love your videos on Gnosticism! it gets me thinking, if these Gnostics that he claims participated in physical debauchery, just used the concept of a separate body and soul as a form of excuse to do those things. Many magical teachings which I'm sure the Gnostics of that time were at least aware of; teach that the actions and activities of the physical body do affect the soul in many ways.

[@TheEsotericaChannel]

could be, who knows? We don't even know if they did these things. I think some did.

[@FraterRC]

Critical hit! Great job, doc.

[@sinshamsh11]

I recommend Pierre Hadot's "Plotinus, Or the Simplicity of Vision." Such a great introduction to his philosophy.

[@annenicholsonmbtp]

Good episode Dr. Sledge. Very nuanced material indeed! That coming from a 4E cog sci chabadnik-you’re definitely not iredermable!

[@colingallagher1648]

another great video as always

[@alohm]

This is important work. The study and exposition of the true philosophies of the Gnostics and great thinkers not commonly known. As Jung said we must, at times of intense crisis especially, leave reason behind to explore sense and nonsense. It is in the Gnostic and spiritual traditions that have been 'cancelled' that we will find the missing pieces of our selves that we are all looking for. Meaning and value are found within, but like a so much of the human experience we only appreciate what we have lost... Shatzen ist shauffen. Meaning is value, creation is meaning/value.

[@SolvableMattB]

Yo new gnostic beef just dropped

[@TheEsotericaChannel]

best beef

[@BenedictaXValentina]

This looks to be an enticing and rewarding project (collaboration) here ESOTERICA and I’ve already seen some “related/recommended” videos from the aforementioned X 👏🏻🙌🏻😎👍🏻🔥🔥🔥✨💎✨

[@catoelder4696]

This subject is so fascinating! Thank you so much.

[@luisacarvalho8719]

great one as always! a video on carpocratianism and later antinomian heresies (*cough* brethren of the free spirit) would also be appreciated !!

[@dynamic9016]

Really appreciate this video.

[@danielbroening]

Wow! What a grand collaboration. My kantharos runneth over.

[@alcosmic]

Metaphysics is the most general attempt to make sense of things. -AW Moore

[@lapurta22]

Have a Happy New Year Dr. Justin. Looking forward to another year of intellectual and spiritual stimulation thanks to your presentations.

[@NorvelCooksey]

Yep another great video, I always love your work.

[@AdeebaZamaan]

I love Plotinus, but have a hard time reading him because he makes my mind go spiraling out into cosmic stuff. Thanks for this exposition. I'm going to have to watch it two or three times to catch it all!

[@TheEsotericaChannel]

I have a hard time reading him because he's a terrible writer made worse by Porphyry's "editing." But yep, he's super interesting!

[@AdeebaZamaan]

@@TheEsotericaChannel I know Plotinus only in English translation. What makes his writing bad? Organization? Grammar? Is he writing in a second language, like an ESL student? This sounds as if I want to argue, but I'm not qualified in Greek!😆 I really do want your opinion.

[@TheLastOutlaw-KTS]

@@AdeebaZamaan Plotinus was losing his vision and had Porphyry write and Compile the Enneads most of the writings of Porphyry appear to be, according to some experts, lecture notes and jottings of what Plotinus was teaching.

[@abstractvlog]

So good!

[@nascenticity]

i’m interested in the statement that some gnostics believed that only a few souls could ever be “saved”, because it reminds me of (much later) calvinism. are there many more references to this idea? i’m curious about what could lead two groups separated by so much time to develop such a similar idea, especially one that seems to run counter to most of what i understand about the role religious beliefs tend to play in societies.

[@TravisLee33]

Great video!

[@pumibel1720]

Now I can only see The Matrix as a cyberpunk depiction of Gnosticism, which does not diminish how epic that movie was for its time.

[@johng8837]

@pumibel1720 the Matrix is a near one to one cyberpunk telling of simulation and simulacra- a hyperreality postmodern critique

[@gregellison6735]

Thanks

[@peterblair4448]

Fantastic Dr!

[@zoroasterhoudini]

"Gnostic humbleflex". Is this why I enjoy watching your videos?

[@stevenv6463]

It's interesting that at a time when demon possessions and miracle workers were everywhere, we have texts from different groups discussing myriad levels of divine beings and emanations and such.

[@horricule451]

I've always kinda wondered what Christianity would be like if Gnostic beliefs continued to be influential and if Gnosticism cohered into a distinct sect the way that the proto orthodox christians did. Now that I've heard out Plotinus's critiques, (or a heavily condensed version of them, to be more accurate,) it's starting to make more sense to me why Gnosticism didn't last very long. "The entire world sucks actually" isn't exactly the type of idea that it's easy to build a long term, sustained religion around. To me it seems like this idea would be more likely to inspire cynicism than faith and community. The nerd in me still wishes that it happened though because I want to hear more of what the Gnostics philosophical beliefs were from them instead of Polemics written against them.

[@tommackling]

Nice, and I agree. I don't think I understand the "recurrent theme" of denegrating Gnosticism. To me, it almost makes Gnosticism seem more alluring, lol. For a relatively modern, somewhat sympathetic take of Gnosticism, I recommend "The Gnostic Gospels" by Elaine Pagels. Cheers, Happy New Year, Love and God bless

[@PasteurizedLettuce]

Manichaeism did fine with it until sustained persecution, some interpretations of buddhism and definitely Jainism also do fine with it, in another sense, though of course dharmic religions treat the issue differently, broadly speaking

[@jordonhoelzeman24]

Lol the pokemon reference got me 😂 "A wild Jesus appears!" Omg, literally, time for that master ball I've never used knowing that one day there would be this moment

[@VictorFinnigan]

I listen often to your programs. Very interesting! May you can "explain" the movie "Welcome to the Circle"? I find it very well done and with a lot of labyrints and illusions in it. Saw it yesterday and will see it again this evening. Best Wishes!

[@ihidaya888]

Is there consensus on the quality of the translations of Thomas Taylor? I see he did a large number of translations. I'm curious about how good they are. Thanks.

[@TheEsotericaChannel]

They're pretty good, actually

[@jamesh2514]

They are the best!

[@timothyblazer1749]

Plotinus is one of the foundations of Western thought, including the Catholic church. He was technically a pagan by modern standards, however at that time there was no such concept.

[@lgude]

I prepared a talk for our local Jung Society a few years ago on Gnosticism, but did not do much with Plotinus’ criticism, finding to my surprise that I had to take seriously the criticisms of the early church fathers despite the fact I was suspicious of their motives because they were clearly using state power (as you said) to suppress Christian splinter groups. I also had to consider the renewed interest in Gnosticism and various attempts to revive it including the work of Holler and the more New Age approaches. Although I phrased it carefully, I too concluded that Gnosticism encouraged hubris in one of its modern forms called a spiritual bypass which attracts us moderns because it holds out the promise of resolving spiritual problems, as we do with material science, primarily through knowledge. The idea of suppressed secret knowledge held by a spiritual elite is just highly appealing. Blavatsky made a career of it for example. I also think the tendency of churches to rely on creeds rather than direct knowledge of God adds to the attraction of Gnosticism as people who can no longer accept creedal belief look for actual knowledge. I also think that it is way too easy for modern people to think it is possible to get final answers through the intellect alone and fail to notice that nothing less than a transformation at the level of being can produce a new relationship with the transcendent. So thank you for so clearly delineating Plotinus’ criticism - it clarifies and extends much of what I dug up on my gnostic labours. I think you balance real scholarship with popular interests in such topics in a highly skilful way. Subscribed😅

[@TheEsotericaChannel]

Thanks for the comments, though nearly all of the early anti-gnostic polemics by the proto-orthodoxy were written well before they had state power. By the 4th century, Arianism was their concern, not gnosticism.

[@catcans]

So if a school of thought struggles with the concept of a soul, it's a philosophy, and if they just trust it implicitly and run with it, it's a religion??

[@TheEsotericaChannel]

If they reach conclusions via reason they're doing philosophy. Otherwise, who knows?

[@catcans]

@@TheEsotericaChannel good point, thanks for free academic answer!

[@bloglivethehighve]

Religion is when you binde/tie "rebinde" , someone to that concept as the ultimate truth.. Re Legare / Legare=to binde.. I would say...

[@joluoto]

Religion and philosophy goes hand in hand, always has.

[@gunkwretch3697]

as to the soul being corrupted by matter? to paraphrase a Gnostic text, cant remember which, "cast a pearl into the mud and it loses no value, rub a pearl with balsam oil and it gains no value"

[@TheEsotericaChannel]

Yeah, I think Plotinus got the gnostics wrong here. Though I think his point is about the ontological marooning of the soul in this world, which he thinks is metaphysically nonsensical.

[@puma7171]

It is somewhat striking to notice some parallels between the gnostics and lutheran christianity. The latter did not consider matter as essentially evil, but at least as something dead (including lost souls) and saw virtuous behaviour as irrelevant to "salvation".

[@kieferonline]

Great video. I like reading Plotinus so much

[@tedhand6237]

RIP Zeke Mazur (whom I had the pleasure of meeting one fine day in Berkeley) and John D. Turner

[@robgoodd]

John Turner was a good friend of mine. Before he passed away, I heard John saying that Zeke Mazur's dissertation is the best work on the question of Plotinus and the Gnostics. Thankfully their friends managed to revise the dissertation after Zeke's untimely death. And it was published by... BRILL! The Platonizing Sethian Background of Plotinus's Mysticism, 2020.

[@tedhand6237]

@@robgoodd Yeah Zeke was really onto something, and courageous in the face of institutional inertia. Thanks for this remembrance.

[@BaltimoresBerzerker]

What is that metal thing behind on you on the shelf!?! The thing that looks like a mini moon shine still? I remember seeing one as a child and always wondered what they were for.

[@MsLemon42]

Thank you for another great video. Been having a depressive spike but your jokes put a smirk on my face, much appreciated. I had a question, around 28:30 you recommend some reading. The first recommendation I was able to catch, but the “hardcore” recommendation sounds like “Plotinus Groschifft”? I could not find this readily. Can you help me with the search terms or a link? I checked the description box and will read the recommended book…is this the same text? Thank you!

[@TheEsotericaChannel]

Sorry to hear about your depression - it's hard for a lot of us these days! You can find the "table of contents of the Großschrift" here - en.wikialpha.org/wiki/Gro%C3%9Fschrift - good luck, and from one content creator-educator to another, thanks for what you do!

[@themagicianandthefool1878]

"they've got aeons for days" You're killing me 😆

[@TheEsotericaChannel]

As far as nous can perceive...

[@ohamatchhams]

@@TheEsotericaChannel >Limiting Nous to perceptions Even all three major Schools of Buddhism would disagrees with limiting ultimate Mind with "can perceiving", such as the Buddhist precepts of the inconceivability of Buddha's mind

[@artemismoonbow2475]

Are there any analyses of Neo-Platonism's influence on Abinavagupta and Kshemeraja's Trika/Kaula Tantra out there? If this was going on in the 3rd century CE Hellenic World, how did these ideas spread to 8th century CE Kashmir if at all (I would be more surprised if they didn't as cultural diffusion has always occurred.

[@TheEsotericaChannel]

There's no evidence of philosophical influence in either direction despite people bending over backwards to find it

[@artemismoonbow2475]

@@TheEsotericaChannel I thought about it as I posted the comment. Kashmiri Saivism is Monistic and Life Affirming, and this video mentioned that Neo-Platonism is certainly Life Affirming, but I believe rooted in Dualism? Thank you for remembering that evidence trumps wishful thinking. Though I do tend to want very badly for a bridge between East and West to exist.

[@TheEsotericaChannel]

You're not alone in wanting there to be a link but I've always liked that individual geniuses all over the world came to similar, though by no means exact, conclusions.

[@artemismoonbow2475]

@@TheEsotericaChannel Certainly allows for a 'deeper' mystery to be contemplated for sure.

[@theeccentrictripper3863]

@@TheEsotericaChannel Wasn't there a treatise on Buddhism written in Greek for an Indo-Greek King in or around Bactria? We also know some manner of Indian mystic was hanging out with Alexander the Great, at least in some sources, there's the tomb of the monk from India who self-immolated in Athens, and the Roman Empire traded with the subcontinent so there's definitely some communication going on. I don't think it amounts to what most of the people searching for this stuff are hoping to find but it seems incorrect to assert that there's no communication between these worlds.

[@beckydegraaf6976]

Appreciate your videos

[@evans808274mc9la]

I'm trying to get some reliable books on ophitic gnosticism at the moment. Any pointers?

[@TheEsotericaChannel]

Tuomas Rasimus "The Serpent in Gnostic and Related Texts" 2007, though what little we know is all downstream of a lost text by Hippolytus. It's not even clear they existed as a sect, tbh.

[@evans808274mc9la]

@@TheEsotericaChannel does this book dissect book 5 of the refutatio?

[@yaanno]

Poor Porphyry :) He must have been a really melancholic person. I just started working on a translation of De Abstinentia and I can tell his style is well... contemporary scholarly being super analytic and kinda boring compared to Plutarch who also wrote extensively on animal free diet. It is fascinating to discover somewhat heated debates on vegetarianism that happened many many centuiries ago. Super fun video, keep them coming :)

[@jamesh2514]

@@yaanno I find the Thomas Taylor translations of Porphyry to be extremely fascinating, whereas Plutarch is kinda dull; the complete opposite haha

[@yaanno]

@@jamesh2514 i like them both. the new translations are great, Taylor's style is a bit more poetic, great tho. of course Porphyry's works are mostly lost in time which is a pity. i'm not surprised reading his mocking notes on christians and many "sects" :)