The Ao Kuang Problem... | SMITE

Ao Kuang's design in SMITE is one of the most volatile in the game. Minor buffs can skyrocket his popularity and minor nerfs can completely take him off the map. Let's discuss...
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[@5urgs]

I’d honestly love to see a year of reworks. Don’t need to add more numbers to the already 100+ god list. Just rework like 6-7 gods next year

[@sewaprolo]

And a few reverts would be nice, too, like Persephone.

[@absoluteradiance3254]

Just no, not every god that is unbalanced needs a rework. They end up destroying the god most of the time (just look at persephone). Just buff or nerf and do minor changes in their abilities. But it just seems that whenever theres a god that works in a different way than the rest everyone just starts screaming for a rework. When, unless its a huge problem that cant be changed in any way, a rework is unnecesary

[@kajnake5905]

​@@absoluteradiance3254 "whenever there's a God that works different than the rest everyone screams for a rework" hits hard Either you're an odd mage that's a bit weak like baba, a niche mage balanced in mid but op in solo, or a mage that's just really hard to balance like ao I'll still take them over "circle, line and an escape" design principle like yu every single day

[@Lalaafastroli]

Facts, some gods feel very dated and I think updated kits benefit the game over new gods 10 fold

[@johnnydavis4505]

I don't trust hi rez to rework anything and make it fun and intuitive, they have a piss poor track record just look at nu wa, persephone, nox etc

[@StrengthOfADragon13]

I think the reason for his lower win rate in the mid mid to upper levels of ranked is BECAUSE of the higher ban rate. I feel like half the time when ao gets through someone grabs him because they feel obligated to not because they are actually good at him. He isn't a "braindead" pickup so if you don't know what you are doing you risk being worse than useless when you run into 3 people and instantly die. If he wasn't banned so frequently I feel people would be more likely to play him enough to figure him out and get him closer to the GM win rate

[@applepielord8681]

I think Au’s kit is a lot like nemesis but his execution and get out of jail free card (dragon form after execution) puts him above the rest. He can punish so much harder than most other gods so he looks busted at times. Same goes for the morrigan at times. She can be just as deadly

[@domc9801]

Morrigan is something I can deal with, because I feel her time to kill isn’t as bad also I can scare her off since she has to know the god she copies, it takes more skill then to burst someone. Also I meet more caring Ao then Morrigan, never my team always the enemy.

[@PumaPants248]

Ao, Baka, and Freya are the characters in a box called “Useless or ruining the game for everyone else” all of them need reworks

[@syraphian]

Aphro too, she needs a rework more than any other God imo. Only difference is hi Rez learned their lesson from last time aphro was good and they're just keeping her in purgatory

[@mitsuruhype]

The issue with Freya is she GOT reworked, was literally the best God in the game directly after even after a minor re-rework and numerous nerfs, and then reverted back.

[@Blazerage717]

I play them when I want a free win

[@fenndall]

I'd honestly add hades in there. Every time he's meta he's like THE meta

[@TheKnightOfSmite]

@@mitsuruhype They went about it wrong and tried to fix Freya's problems like wave clear which made her into the best god in the game, while making her into a burst mage instead of an AA mage

[@SeanTFlynn]

Tank kuang with stone of fal was literally f6 inducing

[@craftex1018]

Me yesterday: I’m gonna try Ao Kuang. I like assassins and he seems interesting. He tends to do well when I see him. Okaaaaaay I have no clue what I’m doing but I’m 7/2/4… he seems pretty busted or is that just me? Inter literally the next day: Ao Kuang is a problem and here’s why. Me: thank you lord of Smite knowledge. My suspicions were confirmed. Love the content. I think I wouldn’t have stayed with this game for even 100 hours if it wasn’t for your guides and info videos. 600 hours in and I’m still learning new stuff from you. :)

[@theroaringlioness2435]

Bruh 10 mins ago I played against a Ao Kuang in duel and lost cause of his execute lmao

[@BigSleepyJoeCooking]

I think kuang has always been strong even when not popular used to carry ranked games with him all the time

[@gilgamesh-cigar4106]

I remember destroying you a few times.

[@sewaprolo]

Ao was also the only god who could use stone of fal effectively, which made him a bit broken, tbh.

[@armintor2826]

What did stone of fal do again?

[@Yeqqon]

@@armintor2826 Mitigations after basics. Stacks 3 times

[@ghost1182able]

Tank ao late can box anyone in a 1v1 while doing ridiculous damage and having an execute

[@JuniorrRey]

He's easily my favourite god but i much prefer when hes out of meta. Dont play a lot of Conquest but i main him in duel and it was nice to play him when nobody else did. But now he's everywhere so ive stopped playing him entirely. Looking forward to the next nerf

[@dennisarmstrong8866]

I have the same problem, he's banned in 90% of my games tho.

[@KaunPrime]

This is how I feel about crit thanatos. Used to crit thanatos was fairly rare, but now its almost half the thanatos players youll see. But crit thanatos has always been really fun for me to do and I've always done it with him even when people said crit was bad on him. You can build auto crit based thanatos and run through an enemy team in a matter of 1 second per kill, besides the tank taking 3-4 seconds to kill.

[@fishes002]

These comments just sound like the ppl who knew a musical artist before they went main stream....ur not cool or unique dude.

[@vulftyr2052]

I hate everything that kills me in 2 seconds when I have max prots, 4k HP and around 20% mitigation. It should at least take 5 maybe 6 seconds.

[@iwoodg8ski]

The class buffs also have something to do with this as he's one of the very few magical junglers and benefits from free, early power. In past seasons he was more of a late game god but the little bump in power helped him a lot with his early game.

[@peterbrown8455]

He quickly became one of my favorite gods when I started in mid-s8 and I saw basically no one play him until he got those back to back buffs in mid-late s9 and now I can never play him in ranked 😔

[@Cra-b]

good.

[@RandomPerson-ng4kr]

The issue I have with him is that exe. Achilles and Thana are telegraphed. Achilles has a windup. Thana has the heartbeat. Ao just appears.

[@flowervillain5643]

beads = no ao ult. everyone has beads or a cc immune ult. he's good right now only because people can't wrap their heads around the fact that you really shouldn't be trying to 1v1 him

[@RandomPerson-ng4kr]

@@flowervillain5643 that's obivous but it's quite hard to not 1v1 him when he's the one who often engages fights or 1v1s. And most the time your beads or ult is down when he appears

[@flowervillain5643]

@@RandomPerson-ng4kr if he has his two up, don't let him auto you. make him use his 1 to come to you, move away so he has to throw his two which really hurts his dps and then you win the 1v1. if he's "just appearing" then he's burned his escape and all it takes is you having positioned well to kill him

[@flowervillain5643]

and bro you've clearly never tried to engage as Ao in any rank above plat. you just die.

[@FeaRDirTy]

@@flowervillain5643 what are you a gold player bro? You think people don’t know to beats his ult and not let him auto you with his 2? Did you even watch this video for the explanations of him being broken?.?

[@Meaw523]

I just hate that his execute is a get-out tool. If thana or achilles ults in a team fight they will be punished for be reckless, ao kuang literally fucks off after getting a pick and its really frustrating.

[@carlangas0100]

man, it is an execute that can be cleansed with beads or abilities and with double the time you have with ne zha's ult, you can't wish more

[@HookahOtaku]

Thanatos can ult from a safe distance and aoe stun. Achilles is a warrior who can brawl and execute, ao gets blown up as soon as hes seen, apples to oranges.

[@karma7609]

^ give it a few weeks and everyone will know how to deal with an ao kuang

[@DBlockInc]

Ptsd of “A MIGHTY SWORD!!!!!’

[@domc9801]

Thank you, I hate how I need two or more items just to even hope to deal with this menace. Just put a cap on his attack speed and or make it harder to get out, he can kill three people and even your tank(me) if he isn’t focused.

[@pyromaniac000000]

I have no issue with his design. Having more niche characters that can excel or fail on a number a variables is more healthy for the game than having only one giant tofu platter for a roster. Some designs will be inherently stronger than others, some with be weaker, some will be easy to use, some will be hell to master. We should honestly embrace that instead of screaming for reworks and nerfs. As his win rate shows, hes strong and annoying, but hes 100% not a guaranteed win, far from it actually. And more than anything, he really is the only TRUE magical assassin, sure you can run plenty of others as jungler, but none of them are made with that role in mind. Having the one and only mage designed to be an jungler be very strong is actually REALLY good, it gives you an actual reason to shake things up every once in a while, keep the game from getting stale fighting the same few gods every single game. We dont need another persephone situation, just be happy they are as they are, because hi rez can and WILL fuck up their design entirely and make them a boring and generic pile of flavorless mush. I for one prefer a little flavor in my games design, thank you very much

[@Lucibin]

this is why ao kuang solo is the most fun and balanced

[@omarionclark1900]

You heartless monster.

[@xRagingxDemonx]

One day a few seasons ago i decided to go tank kuang because despite picking him first everyone else picked squishies. Annoyed, but rolled with it, I built full tank and completely killed anyone solo and also team fights were a breeze, because getting an execute i'd heal so much HP it was ridiculous. I also didn't do so much burst damage, so when they'd try to pre beads my execute i'd just wait it out. Tank Kuang is a problem.

[@specimenlarry6068]

That's so funny. Yesterday I was just thinking Ao's kit is just broken and needed a rework.

[@stormraingreen7543]

My forever main issue is that his ult. Being able to quickly burst down with an execute that allows him to escape. The amount of time i nearly kill him or disengage succefully just for that ult (especially under tower early game defensivly.) to prevent what he should die to... the tower or a teamamte nearby.

[@HookahOtaku]

If he didnt have the execute , hed be dogwater. He cant live long enough to do damage to kill a target. I cant imagine his melee based kit of all in or die working with a different ult.

[@stormraingreen7543]

@@HookahOtaku The excute is not so much the issue. It is the free escape that come with it while it requires a kill with ult to trigger. It does not mean it is okay to have a free escape eoth it. Espically as you seem to be caught up in thinking it is just Au Kung that shall be doing damage to people.

[@HookahOtaku]

@@stormraingreen7543 it honestly sounds like a complete skill issue from people failing to use beads. Literally hes a walking melee glass cannon that gets one shot as well. Any time we hear AOs dragon stim we literally know hes coming and he gets one shot. Its hilarious how easily he dies. His kit is designed on burning a single target down into execute, why would they design the god to play another way when the kit is built in to work like that. He cant blow up your entire team nor chain ult… literal skill issue, because once that beads is popped, he cant do anything at all. The ultimate is not instant, he grapples you and you have that entire window to pop beads or heal back from the execution.

[@stormraingreen7543]

@@HookahOtaku I mean loki was the same way and he was not any less fustrating to fight against. Differnce being that loki had to choose between egnaging with his ult and disengaging with it. And don;t bring up skill issue. It is redundent as Hades and Sutr complaints can be boiled down to that as well! A lot of "balance" issues in reality are a skill issue. Does not meant it is fine to have it remain as is.

[@iyziejane]

One issue separate from his overpowered builds is his execute, it's much faster and more difficult to block compare to other executes like Thanatos or Achilles.

[@jettblade]

He is one of those that a little buff breaks him. I personally think Freya and Arachne are worse in regards to little buffs break them simply because their designs, two stims in their base kit makes them impossible to balance. I am not sure how a rework or kit overhaul would work with him. I think maybe reducing his base Attack Speed or maybe giving him a lower cap so he isn't just throwing out more basic attacks would work but it kind of ruins what he wants to do, of attacking a thousand times in 2 seconds. Maybe item change could help push him into a different direction. If there were more options for Attack Speed items for mages he could branch out because there are literally only 4 items with Attack Speed and Magical Power. That does run into the problem that mages would be too flexible and push out even more people out of their roles. Its going to be hard to find that balance. I do like his kit and what the intention was for it but the game isn't in a good state for it.

[@ImKioto97]

Idk how long you have been playing smite. But there were moments in the past where full AP ao kuang was the way to go. You didn't build a single atk speed item. Polynomicon used to proc with your 3 so you basically charged your 2, blink, 3, throw the 2 and the guy would be in execute range. By changing his atk speed we could possibly go back to that. I don't know which version of ao terrifies me more 😅

[@WatchMysh]

​@@ImKioto97oh the "good" old days... thanks for the poly-ao reminder.

[@etgha]

1:49 that clutch level 5 on the fenrir though

[@JACKWEASEL]

I will let Ao Kuang open if I want merc or set or vise versa. But I almost want him nerfed so I can play him more. In the right hands most gods can work or seem broken. Also because ranked is so toxic and people rarely want to work together it can distort how good or bad some characters are in smite. Honestly I like Ao’s kit. But I can see how it can be frustrating to deal with. Right now I think kali is left untouched in picks and bans, until you get up to diamond and masters. I would recommend to everyone to learn these gods, as you do pay attention to what is beating them and what isn’t. The next time you lose to Kuang pay attention to who was the biggest problem then keep that in mind next time you see him get picked. You might be surprised at the results. Hope everyone is having a good day.

[@Fenriir]

I love Ao and personally I only play him solo, tbh he's beens incredibly strong for at least 4 years but he was slept on by most of the community, he's had a few minor buffs in the last year or so (negligible buffs) and suddenly everyone starts playing him and realises how strong and oppressive he is He will always be strong because of the nature of his kit design, even the nerfs he took recently won't change the fact he can and will still hyper carry, I don't want to see a rework but I wouldn't be surprised if he gets one fairly soon

[@holschermarc]

I love that ur Videos always have Pokemon Music in the background. Nostalgia is one hell of a drug

[@derek44264]

As a Ao main I gotta say, a lot of this is true but one thing at least that I've noticed with Ao is usually also HOW the enemy handles him. Ao can still be a threat when his 2 is off CD even with low HP because most Ao mains will have lifesteal up right away. I can't tell you how many times mid game my HP is red and a warrior tries to finish me, only to blender them and sustain because of the windfall of lifesteal from my kit, like Freya but with melee. Also the rings in this game have always been the bread & butter for Ao's spicy builds, with their new changes it actually helps him to more steadily ramp up now even if he falls behind a bit in farming unlike say Thanatos.

[@oxstr8upgreekxo730]

I typically play gods that are ok into ao so i don't ban him. Any hunter could kill ao if you see him comming but thats the trick knowing where he's at.

[@Rampage1Rules]

Hunters are only good 6items when they got full crit and can 3 shot him

[@kingsmanlad4147]

A lot of the characters people find utterly annoying need kit reworks. I think if a God is getting over 60% ban rate at all levels then they need to rework them just to alleviate that

[@somecallmejorge2462]

I'd love for you to elaborate more on the stats you showed. You mentioned that Ao tends to fair worse against coordinated teams yet his highest win rate is at the GM level (where he is justifiably banned) and lowest in bronze. I do think you're spot on that he fades in and out of the meta based on only minor shifts and whether he sees pro-play, however I believe that the Loki rework is a major contributing factor to his increased prevalence in games. Essentially, since that rework Ao has become the safest hyper-carry available to players, and arguably always was.

[@redjoker06]

Ao was the first god I ever purchased with favor back when they didn't even give you free gods only neith lol and I remember he was really strong, I just finished a game of slash where the enemy Ao built tanky and was still able to get 500 DMG on me as a warrior lmao I need to play him more this season

[@Iseenotix]

I'm of the firm belief that any character with the ability to turn invisible should never be good, or even average.

[@reubenkendall2525]

I think one of two simple adjustments, neither of which is a total rework, would permanently solve the Ao yoyo effect. 1.) dramatically reduce the amount of time he spends in the air after a successful execution. I know they've already nerfed the post-execute glow but I mean chop it down to 2 seconds max. If no ground target has been selected by the time the duration ends, have the dragon just drop his az on the ground where he got the kill. Also, ability cooldown timers are frozen while he's in the air post execution. the point here is to take away the huge cushy reward he gets for securing an execute. The execute itself should be the reward, not the first course. Achilles gets punished with vulnerability for landing his execute, and Thana has to trade out his entire getaway and positioning for an execute which is harder to hit. Ao gets rewarded with an execute for overcommitting to a fight against literally anyone, tanks included, and THEN gets a second reward in the form of two SMITE weeks in gametime of paid vacation sitting pretty in the penthouse of the sky while his abilities reset, allowing him to scout out other vulnerable players. This is what is demoralizing about playing against him. For every other god with an execute or a similar reward for overcommitting, the execute IS the reward. So take away his post-execute reward and I think we'd see him start to suffer for overcommitting without an escape plan or team followthrough. Or, 2.) Pull a Loki ult rework and stagger the knockup and execute aspects of his ult, so that the dragon only carries Ao off the map and secures the execute *at the top of the knockup*, a full second after he lands the ult ability. This would put Ao in a risky position because, as with Chronos, it would be possible for teammates to kill him before his ult completes. the point here is obvious. Make the overcommitting part of the rush to execute a little riskier, rewarding teammates for grouping and/or watching each other's backs.

[@imgonnacream]

firsr game where i saw him being built right, everyone goes ability based when his 1 does nothing for damage, his 2 is for autoattacks and his 3 does good damage but after you use it, youre done for a few seconds until its up

[@Procrastinater]

Smitebrain, cry nerf nerf nerf. Just buff other stuff if something is overperforming. Assasins duking on everyone in the jungle role? introduce a starter item that increase power/defence in lanes. Auto attack mages overperforming? Introduce item that removes flat amounts of basic attack damage. Don't nerf, give options instead. You cannot nerf away inbalance, you're just moving shit (meta) around from one place to the next. The problem is that the problem lies in the community and their awful perception of what a moba is supposed to be. So many fun ways you can deal with problems like these, but they would require more work and the community would shit their pants over it because of smitebrain so why bother. If I were in control of smite (god I'd hate that), I'd do some wacky shit, like introducing a nemesis system where you could chose to counter their picks by giving a god a nemesis buff against a certain pick at the cost of slightly lowering effectiveness against the rest of the enemy team. Writing this, I realized I just want more mobas like dota 2 and fewer mobas like lol, might just be my issue. I'm still going to look down on the smite community though, UGH I know I know, I'm sorry I'm not sorry HAHAHAHAHA.

[@bigboi257]

i only play arena so i love him how he is rn

[@hellbornKrieg]

For arena/slash/joust, you Can build full tank for the first half. Leading to way more harassment, survivability, and kills

[@karma7609]

Hot take I hope so kuang doesn't get reworked, I love the idea of a melee magical assassin and judging from hi- Rez last reworks he would only become a worse version of himself.

[@golemofwill4728]

I really do wish we got more hybrid characters, especially in the support role. Of course they're a nightmare to balance but its nice to see some variety in the roles. Honestly, jungle in most mobas in the most free role for almost any character.

[@frieza2013]

True I want a Tank Jungle meaning you know actually build the tank why do jungles need to be a assassin always.

[@frieza2013]

I do think Ix-Chel is going to be a pure support Mage like Yemoja accept actually in the Mage category.

[@El_Julio09]

@@frieza2013 I was thinking the same like 2 days ago

[@ButFirstHeLitItOnFire]

Hmm… So fun idea for a buff: If surfer is a physical warrior that can deal magical ability damage, Ao could be the inverse and be a mage that can deal Physical damage with that sword he whips around. Come to think of it, there are a BUNCH of gods that could go the hybrid damage route, if not have full on physical and magical stances. Odin for example is as much a Mage as a Warrior in lore.

[@Rain-kt5ti]

Oh great another person who wants to turn every God in smite into persephone. What a intelligent and intuitive take that I have never seen or heard before.

[@KingStratzah]

I’d buy the hoody if it had the motto on the back and a small sweet intersect logo near where a chest pocket would typically go. Idt you have your own logo rn tho

[@HobbolinGobbolin]

It's always a 20-0 Ao Kuang too, a few heavy hitter, blink and you're dead type gods but he is by far the most annoying. He needs that Loki hate so much.

[@alexpasos1999]

To be fair the one who I think needs a rework is Nox because her bubble is very annoying to those who are really good and never miss. The fact you cant even beads out of it and for those who build a team comp around it is not fun to play against at all as you just cant really play the game. Vamana had his 4 changed to where it gives him shield instead of health because people had to specifically counter pick him otherwise.

[@gdoggy121]

I hate this god for Dragon Call alone. The burst on that move is beyond insane.

[@Brutalyte616]

Ao Kuang would be less infuriating to deal with if his cooldowns were longer or his ult didn't let him hang in the air for so long or jump so far away. The fact that he executes first and THEN jumps, and can land halfway across the Conquest map, means there really isn't an opportunity to punish him like for securing a kill when he should by all rights be surrounded and waiting to be focused down by the enemy team for his hubris, as would be the case for Thanatos or Achilles. Forcing him to commit to his kill and rely on his team for the follow-up or otherwise giving him that opening is the only effective means I can see for dealing with him, and the only realistic way I can see that being done without radically altering his kit is to somehow reduce his air-time.

[@somefucker5942]

This is why i pick jorm when I play support and make sure to body block ao kang. Jorm massive size in itself is peel, because the target indicator gets all wonky when jorm is next to a character that ao is targeting

[@ewww21]

I feel like this for He Bo. Some guy on Reddit was arguing with me that He Bo needed nerfs because of his high percentages all the way to SPL recently, and I tried to remind him that nothing has changed with He Bo, the game balance and items have changed and pros are leveraging it. Nerfing He Bo and ruining his entire selling point for what could be a flash resurgence is silly and not many people that play him can even replicate those levels of success. They always overreact and ride a bandwagon. To this day Osiris is worse than he was before because of the nerfs he received and never gets to be above B tier and he's such a fun god to play. Just fix the items and numbers before trying to scrub someone out of the SPL meta.

[@MissChambers]

The issue is that Ao Kuang is one of the truest burst assassins in the game, he’s the only real one really, other games like League’s assassins tend to be burstier like Ao is, but he has three elements that make him silly. Firstly, he’s a jungler, so you can’t punish him in lane like you could if he were a mid lane assassin. More importantly, he’s a bursty assassin with access to both insane DPS and an execute which remove a lot of the weaknesses a character like him is meant to have. Saying this as someone who doesn’t really play smite anymore but did for years, and has played League for years, his kit just is not only something unique to Smite in that Smite doesn’t have to deal with a lot of bursty magical assassins, games like League or DOTA have those kind of characters being way more abundant so Ao feels uniquely bs among the cast of smite gods. And also he has a lot of tools to mitigate the weaknesses that a character like him is meant to have.

[@flowervillain5643]

ao is a little overturned right now for sure, but the gameplay is a bad example. you could have played jungle agni and done well against those players - nearly everyone in a match has beads or a cc immune ult so his ult late game in some lobbies (apart from being SUPER buggy which no one talks about) can just be a non-factor. and also, no one really knows how to play against the god at all. he's really awful from behind and gets ahead when people try to 1v1 him early then forget how the ult actually works, so he can snowball for sure but smite is a very snowball heavy game regardless. he's a trash god for months, good for a few weeks due to a buff and general cluelessness, then is nerfed into being bad again. i wouldn't mind a rework for sure as he his my most played god and I really do agree with the fact that he's either S or C tier at any given point which shouldn't be the case

[@marcusandersson6831]

one word. "WITCHBLADE" how tf could they remove an item like that

[@Tiagocf2]

I think a little rework should suit him well, as you said, he's too instable, so shifting the power balance within his kit could make him more stable whilist keeping his gameplay the same. My suggestion is to lean more to his brawler aa mage style instead of his frustating loki assasin like style. Some ideas i had while watching the video, let me know what you think :p 1- since most his power budget come from his 2, maybe switch it to be an ultimate, and a less powerful execute as a basic ability. 2- Dragon call as an ultimate could be more powerful by extending the duration and summoning more dragons 3- King of the Eastern Seas as a basic ability could be a knockup with a low execute treshold (like 5%) + base damage, if the ability kills it triggers the dragon as usual but with way shorter range and air time (much more like a leap) and maybe reset the cooldown 4- Maybe let Dragon Call be his passive, so as you AA you summon dragons and can cash in with his 3 or other ability and give him a new 2 5- As a complementary change to make his playstyle less all-in, let he teleports back to his water illusion and make the invisibility be broken by casting 2, making harder for him to surprise burst someone and less likely to just die if he cant execute 6- Remove the lock-in mechanic on his ult because it's annoying and lacks counterplay

[@jtdarelli2362]

Once again, all these problem would be fixed a reverted Hide of the Nemian, plus a magical equivalent. Punish high DPS characters for targeting tanks. Force more careful engagements and not just left clicking everything to death

[@j.t.official6688]

Ao really doesn’t need a rework, he’s one of my favorite characters to play but if you know how to counter him then it definitely slows him down. His kit allows him to stick to people and his ult and be countered with beads or aegis. I do agree sometimes his dmg is a little crazy, I know last season I was demolishing people with him in conquest before they nerfed him, but a lot of people also don’t know how to play around him too

[@TheOneUndOnlyNobody]

I went from never seeing ao kuang, to season 9 me building warrior kuang as a joke and doing well since we had a discordia main in the group, to now seeing him everywhere now in season 10 carrying lobbies and him not being able to die ever. This problem I believe rises with the what I call "extra damage" items they have added. Cyclopian and tablet are very strong items, Cyclopian on kuang is insanely good, throw nimble bancroft and build polynomicon and rod of tahuti, and build telkhines, and you activate dragon and your auto does basically a deathbringer crit, which can bring someone close to execute so you can get out

[@NonCreativeRage]

He can be as strong as he is now and it would be fine if he didnt get to execute and run away plain and simple. ult is broken, always has been, no other executes give you an escape.

[@RitzCarlton0]

They need to make Ao kuan ult dogeable it is so easy to execute the tanks which leaves no peel for backline .. just rework the ult into a water dragon that execute that can be dodged

[@HookahOtaku]

Tanks are too hard to kill and do too much damage, ao is one of the few that hard counters this meta. He was irrelevant before this crap tank meta.

[@RitzCarlton0]

@@HookahOtaku his ult is still so free .. I guarantee u they make his ult dodgeable they can leave him how he is

[@thatsnotgonewellatall5517]

build him power and watch tanks cower build him tank and then out flank Build him bruiser hit like a cruiser Issue with ao is the mitigation/tank yellow numbers build works so well on him that unless you have incredible team work or they are brain dead he can out trade any ability based squishy and most AA based squishy targets no contest without any chance for them to fight back all the while taking no damage. Give him a few seconds un interrupted with said build and he can kill tanks too due to his execute. Mobility, slows, invis (which has literally never ever been a good addition to a PvP game) and a massive threshold execute is bad enough before you even think about the fact that he has insane base damage and some of the best capacity to utilize procing items in the game.

[@TFoxhound]

Now I want to see a assassin like hunter or hunter like assassin. Basically physical version of these guys add fuel to the flames

[@dadiscoverychannel]

Came back to Duel recently and was confused at why he kept getting banned. Then I had to face one and found out he gets built-in damage mitigation and CDR just for being on that map.

[@szymonj.rucinski3843]

as predominantly tank main I hate ao and ban him every time; unlike thana or achilles, his execute is undogeable if you don't have beads, so he really is a fright to us tanks

[@MNVinela]

Ranked is a mess right now. I was masters in past seasons but after this reset this year grinding out of bronze has genuinely been a nightmare because of these hyper carries

[@ChaosTheStrange]

If you have alot of trouble with Ao, and don't want to use your brain too much, just play NIke. I got tired of me and my team getting melted by him and started playing Nike, Ao literally has no way in if you just put up the shield since he most likely teleported/went invisible to get there, and even if he teleports in you can just push him out again, plus you can disarm him for a bit which will turn off his auto-melter machine for a bit. Her ult is also a massive AOE brainless slow and extra health for you, so he really just feels helpless if you defend your team and harass the Ao Kuang. Alternatively, you can just group up and/or communicate, but let's be honest, that isn't gonna happen in pubs.

[@tolkiensnorth4586]

I have no issue killing Ao Kuangs, doesn't make them fun to play with or against, loki can piss off too. there are a few like them and bastet and the like that basically generate boredom. They're like the user-retention anti-meta

[@killakobugi8415]

Love that you got merchandise. Would like some better designs with nene on it

[@Chris.182]

Would absolutely love some new desk mat designs!!!

[@jradjj2988]

I just think part of his problem at least for me is how easy his execute is to hit. It’s just a cone in front of him and that’s it. I personally think executes in general are busted and just an unskilled mechanic and shouldn’t be in the game but at least with the others Achilles, and thanatos you have to at least someone aim it even though it’s still not that hard.

[@treko3000]

But aos excute is completely negated by any immunity bc of its initial stun its ez to hit sure but its ez to counter as well the real problem is his insane burst

[@samgraffen9212]

I'm ok with Achilles' because it has a fairly short range, makes him take more damage afterwards, clearly telegraphed so it can be dodged, and can be body blocked by teammates to negate its effect, thus it has counterplay. Ao's is an instantaneous lock on so you can't avoid/miss it, %hp restore, and a free escape to avoid getting punished for a dive. Thana becomes untargetable, hits in an aoe, moves very quickly over walls, can be variably timed, stuns if it doesn't kill and gives him hp if it does.

[@x.m.a.]

you underestimate bronze players ability to unite under the banner of hate towards a character. Bronze play is more emotional and seeing a strong god on the enemy team will lead to the team diving that one god again and again in the name of hate and vengeance

[@Artistic_Storm]

I've often seen hybrid ao's still destroy teams just from having things like axe of animosity and a few rings. Is mad annoying to fight with unorganized teams.

[@Bippitybuppity]

Personally i enjoy playing him and dont want to see a similar thing with loki, logging one day and seeing my boy murdered.

[@eatonknass247]

Ah. You're bad. Thanks for telling us

[@Bippitybuppity]

@@eatonknass247 ;(

[@ricardosaulo3395]

I actually don’t want a rework on him just as how I didn’t want any rework on Loki, sue me. All of us at some point already got clapped by a good Old Loki or Ao Kuang and already put one of a bad one to shame too, the same with Arachne, Freya and Baka, just because the character is really good at picking off and it’s not fun to get destroyed in 2s by 1 player doesn’t mean it’s something it should be changed. It can’t even be considered toxic, you just don’t like it.

[@Warrior_Meta]

This reminds me of doomfist in overwatch. Very hard to balance because of the boom or bust nature of the kit.

[@klyxes]

Ah yes, glad to know "feast or famine" characters are also in smite. There's illidan & Sonya in hots, but what about league nad dota?

[@Shadowsparrow70]

Ao kuang is a low rank stomper but balances out in higher ranks, people that are whining just don't know how to play against him. You can beads and aegis his ult, he instantly dies to your team if you do.

[@flowervillain5643]

bro I don't get how people don't get this. if he doesn't have his one up and you beads his ult he has to be point black to do any damage to you at all. golds get hit by his execute and call nerfs

[@TheMirksta]

​@@flowervillain5643 If you expect yourself to have both relics you should expect him to have blink, in which case he 1s away. Good teams play around relic timers and that's where a god like this is particularly strong

[@maxwellmorris9189]

GOT A AO KUANG IN MY GAME 4 GAMES IN A ROW AFTER THIS VID DROPPED

[@kuchikuparty4071]

his 2 base damage is ridiculously high. Even tho u build full tank on him, he can damage like dps fr.

[@harrygaughan1309]

The enemy team were so pissed at the AK pick in the after match lobby lol

[@shanecoffing]

There is a few characters in league who are like this but this reminds me most of Katarina. She shreds squishes and tanks and once ahead, just will dominate entire games singlehandedly. However, a coordinated team can deny almost her entire kit with well timed CC and movement. Annoying for most because she feels impossible to stop when ahead but terrible in pro play because the kit just fundamentally doesn't work against a group.

[@FalcnPWNCH]

assassins are by design as a MOBA class are probably the most volatile in terms of gameplay balance and player reception by nature and its something that can't really be helped - assassins as a MOBA class are most generally defined by having target access in the form of lots of mobility + high burst damage, so at core what they excel at are tactics like ambushing and obliterating you in an instant having no time to react, or they'll simply chase you down and outmaneuver you to kill you - so they are the most erratic characters because they are almost entirely defined by their numbers, as those numbers determine how efficiently and quickly they can burst you down - this also creates the dichotomy between MOBA communities, as they are the class of characters one either loves or hates and there's often no in between - as you are the assassin-player who one-shots those squishies and you prefer the high-octane thrilling gameplay, or you hate them because you are at the receiving end as a squishy support / adc / mage who just can't play the game because they are instagibbed constantly - *_the class playstyle creates gameplay which simply isn't enticing to go against_* - so people across all MOBA communities to my experience *_always have strong feelings about assassin characters_* - as a League player assassins are pretty much in the same spot, high mobility characters have by far the highest pick-ban-rates - *_they are simultaneously both very popular and hated,_* and the community sentiment against them doesn't shift that much despite them not being powerful or dominating the current meta - probably the best example of this is *_Akali the Rogue Assassin_* - who has a ton of burst damage and consistent damage, insane amounts of mobility to run a marathon around you with so she can basically catch and chase down basically any enemy she so desires, and constantly cycles between being unplayable or permanently pick-banned due to being powerful in the meta or the players finding the umpteenth gimmick op build to abuse despite her being nerfed, and the devs have to nerf her yet again - she often ends up in the nerf-list on the patch notes, has had a full-rework already a while back and soon after that went through multiple mini-reworks - and despite in her current state not being considered powerful or meta relevant for multiple months, people still keep banning her - simply due to the fact that despite being at her weakest, *_nobody still wants to deal with her and her assassin-shenanigans_*

[@LapDap]

Tbh as a more casual player I love the kuanger. He's probably one of my favorite designs in the game. I absolutely love his ultimate and I think his kit works and flows super well. I personally would hate a rework and a change of how he works. I never had a issue with him and never knew people had this much of a problem with him. All of my friends and everyone I've ever played with have nothing but praise for how much fun and well designed he is. I would heavily disagree that his design is horrible. But I understand if you don't like him being powerful because of how his kit works

[@Hyperbolicbackhole]

Sometimes gods feel like "either useless or unstoppable" depending on the tiniest changes.

[@simimark1]

Most of the player base not being able to react to his ult animation and beads ads to this imo

[@RuthlessCarl]

I love the Pokémon music

[@ghost1182able]

I mained ao for a bit after looking rework, and from that time I can tell you late game is a gg regardless beads mean nothing anymore cuz the execute isn't even needed unlike loki his 2 is the only real thing needed to burst couple that with his 3 dumb damage and his 1 that also does damage and give invis it makes hime cancer to play against then you have lifesteal where he just full heals regardless of antiheal

[@kaskjmerecollier3917]

They should shift him to be more slippery like bastet

[@HookahOtaku]

Tanks are so frustrating to play against as a mage and hunter until 30-40 minutes. Thats not fun either, tank items are bloated and busted too, ao is one of the few gods that can counter this garbage tank meta.

[@calgary_killa1371]

Reading most of the comments here provided knowledge that none of you know what to do against him and that your all bronze or just casual players

[@flowervillain5643]

waaaa ao executed me )): he has to be nerfed!! is the whole comment section

[@calgary_killa1371]

@@flowervillain5643 yup and he’s to safe I only have to get in Melee range of any other mage that can one tap

[@palad1n883]

Executes as a whole are something tricky in Smite. Achilles is one of my favorite Gods right now because once I hit level 5, the slap fight in solo quickly turns into a game of chicken by my opponent because no matter how tanky they are I WILL get them to that threshold eventually. I think executes as a whole need a full rework.

[@jas3946]

To what? Executes aren't unique to smite. Ao Koangs execute is the only execute that's actually a problem

[@joaquincasascortes624]

@@jas3946 exactly. You can't dodge Ao Kuang's execute and, if he lands the execution, he escapes to the other side of the map. Ao Kuang forces the other players to all get beads, which kinda sucks, since a well placed shell or horrific emblem can define a team fight.

[@lorezioezio6917]

Super unpopular opinion: executions shouldn't exists in Smite

[@joaquincasascortes624]

Nah not really, Thanatos execution could leave him in a bad spot in a large team fight. Ao Kuang literally gets a free, safe execution and he can easilly escape to the other side of the map after the ult... Also you can dodge Thanatos and Achilles ult. But with Ao Kuang, you can only beads and that's it.

[@aelechko]

What if they just nerfed his time after execution in the air to like one second? Then his kit isn't back and would most likely have to disengage

[@EatmoreRice12]

A lot of people are mentioning his ult as problematic, yet beads or aegis can block it on top of any other CC immunity. This makes his ult very risky in a lot of cases.

[@anthonyk3952]

That's a pretty poor way of looking at it. True, beads and (a well timed) aegis can deny his ult, but like any execute, it's much more efficient in almost every circumstance to use it on a tank rather than a squishy. And tank roles like solo and especially support tend to opt for either supportive or utility actives rather than beads or especially aegis. Compare Ao's execute to Achilles or Thana, both of which can be juked (or also blocked in Achilles' case). Meanwhile, Ao's execute just requires being close to his target, while he has a kit that makes sticking to a target trivial. As a tank, if Ao's in the game, you pretty much need to play as if you're at a constant 30% Max HP deficit unless you get beads. And if the tank is getting beads, that's a huge win for the Ao's team since that's one less Blink/Shell/Sprint/etc that they have to deal with. And using a CC immune ability doesn't help much either, since most tank's get their CC immunity from their ults, and Warrior/Guardian ults tend to be the most impactful teamfight abilities in the game. If Ao burns that in order for the tank to *maybe* save themselves, that's another huge win for the Ao's team.

[@flowervillain5643]

@@anthonyk3952 getting beads on a tank really isn't that bad, especially if you manage to completely waste the jungler's single target ultimate, which is the whole purpose of his kit and makes him pretty helpless since his one is gonna be on cd if you're relying on his ult to get out. there's also this big thing of him GLOWING LIKE A FIREFLY when he pops his two. Super telegraphed that if he autos you you're gonna take a lot of damage and he's not actually that great at sticking to people, and the dragons around him don't last that long either. If Ao has his two popped and you're just letting him auto you for a few seconds I don't know what you expect

[@anthonyk3952]

@@flowervillain5643 for the most part, I completely agree with you. I'm primarily stating for Conquest specifically, while it's not bad for the tank to get beads (far from it), it's usually better for them to opt for more team oriented actives.

[@bradhanley7310]

I think something that is extremely overlooked when taking into consideration your mention of ao having multiple good build paths and playstyles, he's a mage, and his ability lifesteal is kind of stupid. Yes it can be negated quite a lot, but honestly at this point they should probably just make him physical. The physical options for items for him just make more sense balance wise to me I think. And on that note, I love ao being a mage, but if they did transition him to an assassin, I wouldn't mind, as long as they make clio a mage. I've always thought she would just play better as a mage. I've been playing since 2014, and I agree there's a pretty big problem with ao's design, and no one is every happy when ao is good. If he was a physical, balanced properly, he would have a much better consistent early game as an assassin, and would be a less powerful late game, and a lot harder to just delete tanks and walk on 5 people with cdr resets. They fucking gutted characters like kali with character nerfs, instead of nerfin the aa items that made her good last year and the year before, and now those items are trash and the character isn't the same at all anymore. It's a fundamental flaw with the character's design, and the items are what push those characters over the top. Ao has so many build paths that you can't really just nerf his builds.

[@robbedoes77]

Kuang just isn't fun to go up against whatsoever.

[@noonecares7874]

He strong but ive never considered him the bane of my existence. Im usually by myself or half health when he finds me and kills me

[@frition627]

The only character in the game where u can build whatever the fuck you want and carry

[@kylethedreamer5450]

I love ao’s kit since they added him in the game so I would be really mad if they rework him… however … he’s strong … but he’s enough strong like any other god… if I que into game where my enemies simply don’t know how to deal with him I usually carry the game … but in high ranks people almost every time know how to deal with him and I have to wait on opportunity to actually do smth… people need to stop complaining about god and they need to learn how to deal with it… Time well your cc immune or don’t box him in his 2 active… so many options. It’s really rewarding to realize I can play the game on decent lvl and know how to deal with certain characters. ❤🎉😂

[@MrProdigy810]

I swear Ao Kuang and freya are the biggest swing heroes in the game they’re either Trash or God-tier. There are other gods that are problematic like them, such as Loki, kali, bakasura or Sol, but none to such a huge fucking extent

[@ZombeyDragon]

Ao Kuang is dangerous for the user as well as missing a few basics or abilities can cost you your life a lot of the time. I think one way to counteract both the problems for the players against and the player of is to make his second ability also give him a slightly longer AA range kind of like awilix/maui, maybe even higher? But to also nerf his damage on his 2 and 1, I want his 2 to fundementally be a stim with some minor ability damage on it, and his 3 to be his only real ability. The 1 doesn't need to be nerfed and makes the achievement much harder but it makes sense with my idea to have him be mostly focused on AAs and his 3. And nerfing his 1 would also probably take him out of every role besides jungle as his wave clear becomes stupidly bad, but his assassin playstyle gets more pleasant for both parties involved, in my opinion.

[@TheSket]

I’m not sure how your supposed changes would work but to be fair a lot of gods are like. If you miss ur damage it’s kinda hard to kill opponents

[@ZombeyDragon]

Works like I said, extended AA range while using his 2 but nerfed damage

[@TheSilencer26]

AK is the only reason i get beads as a support

[@vikkstardoom2950]

"being hard countered by beads" man i sure do love hard countering getting 3shot by the dude's autos because i have beads

[@gsdawg5346]

It's almost like it's just a bad idea to give a high burst potential character the opportunity to execute someone at 30% HP...