The Apartheid Debate, Ireland 1969

In 1969 ‘The Late Late Show’ devoted an entire programme to the issue of apartheid in South Africa. The panel and audience discuss what it means to be black in that country.
The debate emerged as a result of the planned visit to Ireland of the South African National Rugby Team, known as the Springboks.
The programme includes contributions from CJ Barry Richardson, Chem Chenutengwedn, Mrs. Campbell in the audience, a South African panellist Kader Asmal, and Harry Bates. Each has a different view on South Africa and a different experience of apartheid.
This episode of the Late Late Show was broadcast on 6 December 1969. The presenter is Gay Byrne.

[@themoviedude2916]

Love the clips. Keep them coming 👍👍

[@dY5FUNCT10N4L]

The idea the Irish would debate this nonsense is crazy Every Irish person should know the craic here

[@grlfcgombeenhunter2897]

Load of bollox

[@Jotari]

From the sounds of it they were all South Africans. I think the only one Irish is the dude with the side burns saying the other guy was spouting rubbish.

[@edmundpower1250]

Wow that's an old late late show segment. Gay was brilliant. Love this

[@RobinKoenig1917]

Not much info on Chem Chenutengwedn online. Him, Kadar Asmal and Mrs Campbell all made great additions to the panel. I wonder what became of him.

[@EndaMRacing]

We need this full interview

[@merrybutcher2978]

South Africa is now a kip .

[@KM-qd4kf]

Australia is a very successful example of colonisation. The British colonisers and subsequent governments ensured that the indigenous people have been lower on every measurable indicator of wellbeing since any interest in them was detected. Unlike Sth Africa indigenous Australians weren’t even determined to exist as human beings thanks to the doctrine of ‘Terra Nullious’ until some time after the 1967 referendum. Prior to that they were under the Flora and Fauna Act’. Rated right up there with kangaroos, emu’s & eucalyptus trees. The British knew their law alright & it was applied in every colony they occupied. Colonising countries caused irreparable damage to the fabric of every indigenous culture. The result has been immeasurably catastrophic for the colonised & the blood letting is a reflection of the lack of humanity and decency of colonisers who plundered lands for their insatiable greed. It continues today irrespective of the window dressing the dominant culture tries to decorate its position of power & dominance.

[@Saltine_the_clown]

The flora and fauna act is a myth.

[@SeanKiernan420]

Thanks for that man, very interesting read

[@KM-qd4kf]

@@Saltine_the_clown Yes Thanks for that. The 1967 referendum resulted in changes to the constitution. Section 51 (xxvi) was altered and section 127 was deleted thus providing the Federal government with powers over Indigenous matters that it didn’t previously hold. - Source ABC Fact Check

[@Itscominghome2.4]

What would Australia look like had it not been colonised? Other than a barren wasteland with no development.

[@KM-qd4kf]

@@Itscominghome2.4 a blinkered colonisation view…exactly what I was saying

[@RobinKoenig1917]

"My wife is Irish from Kildare" what a legend

[@edmundpower1250]

He still didn't answer the question... she's a woman!

[@theirishcontrarian4626]

You have to be a special type of moron to think that this statement was a gotcha.

[@davidmason4244]

Exactly it's okay when she's getting pipped by BBC, but when a white man comes along then it time to show no mercy.

[@harrybryne7360]

My wife is irish from kildare lad is a living legend

[@meastucerinnee]

Would love to know what became of him, and his wife.

[@barrycrump6189]

Poverty breeds aberrant behaviour. When people have nothing to lose they are compelled to take desperate acts. In a civilised society, everyone should have the opportunity to be the best that they can be. No one should be going cold or hungry. Everyone should have access to affordable housing. And everyone should have a fair-paying job. When society is content there should be no need for division.

[@jameseldridge3445]

Poverty is genetic

[@att6484]

@@jameseldridge3445 that's retarded

[@jameseldridge3445]

@@att6484 you've been brainwashed to believe that genes don't play a bigger role to your outcome than the environment does.

[@att6484]

@@jameseldridge3445 ok mate whatever you say. Let's ignore the fact the vast majority of studies dispute that claim.

[@jameseldridge3445]

@@att6484 like what?

[@edsit3169]

ancestor cry at the end

[@vestibulate]

What are the chances RTE would dare to stage such a discussion today over Israeli apartheid?

[@kitsilanomusician2669]

A timely reminder of a legacy when many are celebrating the passing of the figurehead of The International Colonizing Corporation.

[@edsit3169]

That's such a badass title 💪

[@jimmymcjimmyvich9052]

Is the Dutch King dead?

[@NapoleonRook]

@@NC-dw3tk 👏

[@FPSIreland2]

@@NC-dw3tk did you not know that SA was once part of the British Empire? Incidentally, it just so happens to be the time apartheid was enacted as law.

[@FPSIreland2]

@@NC-dw3tk well, you seemed to have been having a go at the guy behind the original post in response to that other moron talking about the Dutch, who was having a go at said Empire, for not knowing enough on the topic. So I decided to inform you that said empire, who were in control at the time, gave their blessing to impose apartheid.

[@hugostiglitz6914]

We need more debates like this. We could start with the Israelis treatment of the Palestinians!

[@freespeechisneverwrong9351]

How about talking about how the country has turned into a shithole for all people since apartheid finished?

[@UFOhunter4711]

onya Chem, always stand up for your rights and dignity

[@scottblack9213]

Great entertainment in 1969 watching from the comfort of one's home in quaint, dear old Ireland. Lots of Londoners flown in to "liven the debate" as plants in the audience from what I can remember. Well, here we are in 2022. Who out there prefers Dublin in 1969?

[@vestibulate]

Scott Black Dublin was the poorest city in Europe. Our men and women were forced to emigrate for work. Our sons and daughters were being raped by the priests. But we were happy, then. No divorce. No contraception. Paradise.

[@scottblack9213]

@@vestibulate lots of Dubliners had a wonderful time in 1969, before the Americanisation of Dublin - if rampant vacuous consumerism is your preferred environment, Dublin 2023 is at your service.

[@vestibulate]

@@scottblack9213 Well, you've got a point there, Scott. Consumerism is seldom an issue when people don't have money in their pockets or affordable goods. By the way, what's your view on the current, long-standing crisis in housing? Blaming immigration?

[@jasonnikiforuk8592]

so good

[@user-du5ye4cu9i]

Lot of race scientists crawling out of the woodwork in this comment section I see 👀

[@arianrhodhyde7482]

Some really appalling and blatant racism there. Incredible that apartheid lasted so long

[@RobinKoenig1917]

Very nasty isn't it. And they are so sure of there own superiority

[@Vingul]

@@RobinKoenig1917 just a couple of weeks ago, the High Court in Johannesburg ruled that it is not hate speech to sing «kill the Boer» (and they’re acting on it as well). Someone’s sure of their own superiority alright.

[@theirishcontrarian4626]

Do you believe things are better in South Africa now since apartheid ended? Give a white man a pile of stones...

[@theirishcontrarian4626]

@@RobinKoenig1917 please point us all in the direction of a better civilization that isn't white majority. I believe you are incapable.

[@arianrhodhyde7482]

@@k1_w3 well, if they wanted to live among their own people why did they live in a country that was then and still is majority African? there's a bit of a contradiction there surely. seems to me like they wanted to live in a majority black country so they'd have a ready supply of servants and cheap labour.

[@nathanielwillex1359]

I enjoyed my growing up in South Africa now we unsafe in our own neighborhood no jobs dirty street's our country was beautiful and our communities was united all colours with quality food and clothes and educated people

[@Peachcobler22]

Ask the majority ethnic population of SA if they enjoyed growing up under oppression. Amazing how tone deaf you lot are. You don't care that other people were brutalized and exploited in order for you to enjoy your "nice" upbringing. So respectfully, voetsek!

[@grlfcgombeenhunter2897]

The great 👍 unwashed lmfwao didn’t know there were crustys back then.

[@una877]

White South African: "our European civilisation started with the Egyptians". Which continent is Egypt in? 😂

[@jimmymcjimmyvich9052]

Try google earth.

[@Vingul]

Egypt is A LOT closer to Europe than it is South Africa, I’ll tell you that. It’s well known that Cleopatra was Greek for instance.

[@Vingul]

@@k1_w3 Based! And indeed.

[@theirishcontrarian4626]

If you believe the negro and the Egyptian are one and the same, it was with great foresight that your parents gave you a name even you'd find difficult to misspell.

[@freespeechisneverwrong9351]

Sun Saharan Africans are not the same as Egyptians.

[@faherty87]

'My wife is Irish from Kildare' ❤❤

[@mikuso-iw6gj]

I'm not Africa but my nation feel same apparteid system in the colonial era. The difference with south Africa is when we ended that system we nationalist their assets and send back them to their original country, at that time our national leader persecution them and many of them voluntary leave our country. So cruel but it's make equality in our society, guess where I'm come from??

[@TheShacharZiv]

Haiti? Algeria? Nazi Germany?

[@SeanKiernan420]

1969 really isn’t that long ago.. some of our grandparents were most likely watching this live. Crazy to see blatant racism and white supremacy spoken with such confidence.. respect to that South African man for standing up against it.(literally standing up against it)

[@john_6232]

You might not like what they said, but a lot of it is true.

[@KM-qd4kf]

@@john_6232 you’re right racism still exist

[@JohnDoe-vp1ib]

@@john_6232 I've literally seen the videos of Africans chowing down on other africans so hes not wrong. And I'm not talking about 1 or 2. Whole tribes doing it. But that's irrelevant - history speaks for itself south africa after apartheid is undeniably a more dangerous place for whites and africans then during apartheid. Not to mention a worse quality of life overall. And the most vicious murders and rapings of white women men and children. Point is white people shouldn't have ever come into contact or made contracts with blacks it is solely a source of conflict destruction misery and death. On both sides. We are incompatible races of people. And what we are doing inviting them to Ireland in the thousands will only end in our eradication off the face of this country. And the eradication of Ireland itself.

[@yohighness]

@@john_6232 Which part is true?

[@danielosullivan3110]

Correct me if I'm wrong,but ,in USA,when Kennedy was elected, people said"this almost makes the Irish white". I'm Irish,glad to be considered non-white! Irish race forever!☘️🇮🇪

[@john_6232]

Gayest comment ever.

[@Ricardo-cp2lu]

@@john_6232 Says the fella who created a video for connor mc gregor lol

[@PunkDogCreations]

​@@Ricardo-cp2lu stalker😂

[@26wessex84]

Didnt answer the question .

[@hoosiercrypto9955]

I hope this world learns it's lesson. After what is upon blows over. I don't believe in the bible. No offense. I believe in peace. This madness has to end. Good luck everyone

[@MikeyJMJ]

Peace is a spiritual term

[@KrlsOtc]

@@MikeyJMJ nah man peace is just happiness

[@tiernanwearen8096]

Back when South africa had 24 hours running water and electricity

[@Peachcobler22]

Voetsek! Racist swine!

[@jainendebele-fr5fp]

For the few

[@maolsheachlannoceallaigh4772]

I think Chem is very tolerant to marry a Kildare woman.

[@JDLeonard74]

From what I understand, things have gone back and forth on that whole thing so far as human rights. If I remember correctly a civil.. implosion?.. of that nature was predicted by some. Doesn't make any of it ◻️◼️a humane thing for mankind. Apartheid and the aftermath are a horrible thorn. Hope and pray for all in S.A. to reach a better place of civility with strong foundation. 🙏

[@andrewhayes9913]

And the north began...

[@thomasboyd4398]

He make better off Willem Petzer Dutch super rich Thomas. He friend to you Thomas.

[@freemindthinkerezrapound5071]

Unwashed and 50.000 years behind in education and they still think they are doing them a favour

[@COIcultist]

South Africa and Zimbabwe have been so successful following black rule. I wonder what the majority of South Africans and Zimbabweans would prefer now?

[@lexingtonconcord8751]

"So successful"? I'm sensing a little sarcasm...

[@jamescornflake1542]

@@lexingtonconcord8751 ''You fill up my census'' ....))

[@hugostiglitz6914]

A civil society is founded on education and the ability to dictate your own future. If you deny a subset education and freedom to determine their own future what do you expect. What ever is wrong with South Africa and Zimbabwe today is the result of white rule.

[@COIcultist]

@@hugostiglitz6914 After how many years does it stop being the fault of white rule? Why do India and the Asian former colonies perform better?

[@freespeechisneverwrong9351]

@@hugostiglitz6914 So how long will be before we can state that white rule had no effect. Btw both Ireland and Singapore were under colonial rule. They are both successful. I wonder why?

[@thomasboyd1037]

Scotland better off with staying with Britain politically Thomas. You got STV voting system for Scottish local government elections. Is Labour party government in Britain England yes Thomas. Art Bezukavenko deliver it.

[@joecmccluskey]

SCOTLAND should be Independent you Unionist Fanny

[@yohighness]

Why does England want to hold on to Scotland so much?

[@DuderinoDeux]

Absorbing stuff.

[@ameenomar1911]

Just like South Africa, Palestine too will be free!

[@yourenotwrong3511]

The good old days. Just look at the state of south Africa now.

[@yohighness]

South Africa's economy started failing in the 1980s. I wonder which geniuses were in charge back then. 😂

[@seandelap8587]

The Late Late show sure had some great discussions back in the day when Gay Byrne was at the helm now it's entirely insufferable and down the pits with that clown Ryan Tubrity.

[@grlfcgombeenhunter2897]

The poor white farmers have left the chat.

[@Vingul]

I bet many in South Africa wish there was more apart-ness right now, and not without good reason.

[@andysierra6934]

The se goes for all of the west my own home ( california) has been for ever changed for the worse by unchecked immigration from the third world and I have been made an outsider in my own home

[@john_6232]

I know many white South Africans that have moved to Ireland. The SA government hates them.

[@arianrhodhyde7482]

Imagine how those native americans must have felt.

[@Vingul]

@@arianrhodhyde7482 Yes, I can imagine many things that don’t concern this matter.

[@RobinKoenig1917]

just come out and say it, you racist coward

[@jericho9653]

Went to south africa 4 yeats ago for 5 weeks. Not much has changed there, still very racist country

[@donquixote3292]

Yes, only now, since blacks have freedom, they have increased the crime rate so high that its a horrible place to live

[@Pdmc-vu5gj]

MAGA back in the day

[@praisebewibble]

The funny thing is that 50 odd years after this show, Ireland introduced apartheid in Ireland.

[@DaraGaming42]

How?

[@praisebewibble]

@@DaraGaming42 The Irish government introduced legislation that split the population apart. This split was based on their medical records. Those who had a certain medical procedure were allowed entry to restaurants , pubs , clubs etc. Those who had not, were excluded , were not allowed entry. A form of medical apartheid. This law is still in place, although not practiced at present. Further apartheid laws are planned and are at present going through the parliament. These new laws will split the people based on colour, sexuality gender race, etc.

[@DaraGaming42]

@@praisebewibble I see….what “procedure” was this now………?

[@praisebewibble]

@@DaraGaming42 I know that you know, but just in case there is anybody who has not heard . The Irish government, introduced what they called a vax-ine/. It was payed for by the Irish taxpayer to the tune of Billions. In order to gain entry into various venues. People, including children had to get injected with the new trial run medication. That fact that it was a complete failure did not deter the government and they have that apartheid law passed and ready to go again at a moments notice. That "procedure" !!!!

[@DaraGaming42]

@@praisebewibble I figured out what you were trying to say when you said Procedure I was thinking some Secret operation and I was hoping to hear some other thing that I’ve never herd of but yeah your right The Vaccines did creat medical apartide and what’s the Racial, gender and class apartide your taking about thats comming ??? How will that work ?

[@jgg59]

My God, the same arguments were against the Irish we were savages we were culturally inferior we were lazy. The racism runs deep

[@PunkDogCreations]

No need to use God's name to cuss.

[@jgg59]

@@PunkDogCreations Nice way to miss the whole point of the comment

[@qasaaye23]

The Egyptiann / Faroe were black.

[@SasquatchAtTheSpaceDisco]

There's no factual basis for that claim. The 25th Dynasty were black, but most Egyptians, including most Pharoahs, looked much like modern Egyptians. It was to some extent a multiracial society, with the more southern peoples being darker, but the people who called themselves Egyptians were almost certainly light brown, and depicted themselves as very different from Nubians and others. They were a great civilisation, and I can understand both white and black people wanting to claim them, but we need to accept reality.

[@Vingul]

Funnily enough in this context, I read not long ago that the closest now living population to King Tut’s genetics are the Irish.

[@SasquatchAtTheSpaceDisco]

@@k1_w3 It won't let me post the link, but that claim is dubious.

[@peacelove6632]

Sub-Saharan Africa is very different from North Africa

[@PunkDogCreations]

😂😂😂

[@freespeechisneverwrong9351]

Thanks for the upload. All I can say is that South Africa was originally founded by White Europeans. There were no discernible tribes there at the time. The Zulus migrated south and murdered the small tribes there after colonisation. Both Africa and Zimbabwe were extremely successful countries in their own right under colonial rule. Apartheid is not right but the current state of the countries is a testament to the culture of the people there. Btw for those that condemn colonial rule for everything need to understand that sub Saharan Africans were still living in the Bronze Age when Europeans arrived. The Europeans brought advancements which brought sub Sahara Africans 10,000 years ahead.

[@noelpucarua2843]

You seem to measure justice in terms of years. You seem to measure justice in terms of who got somewhere first and if tribes could be discerned by outsiders. By the way, if "there were no discernible tribes" how could the Zulus have "murdered the small tribes"?

[@freespeechisneverwrong9351]

@@noelpucarua2843 Unclear how you state I rate justice in terms of years. I rate it in terms of ability of the people to flourish. Yes under colonial rule rule people were murdered but on the whole people prospered. Under direct African rule they murder their own on the street. And this in modern times.

[@noelpucarua2843]

@@freespeechisneverwrong9351 Have you ever even looked at a book on European history, lets say, just the 20th century? Did you notice anything? Anything about wars and murders? Anything about gas chambers, concentration camps in Europe and Africa that Europeans ran? Did you ever come across the expression "Carpet Bombing"? What about Europeans mutilating people in Congo, Kenya and lots of other countries? You can look at all those things and say, "but on the whole people prospered" too.

[@RobinKoenig1917]

I'm going to use my free speech to call you a fucking moron

[@freespeechisneverwrong9351]

@@noelpucarua2843 Yes I can and I can also that native tribes killed each other in their thousands.

[@psjasker]

And yet differing treatment by racial characteristics is coming into vogue again …. Curious

[@archenema6792]

Talk about the pot accusing the kettle!! Your country became the most violently ethno-nationalist enclave in the world on the day that Collins died and De Valera became dictator. 🤣🤣

[@MikeyJMJ]

💪

[@edmundpower1250]

I think you meant to say pot calling the kettle black! Not very apt here and can u understand why you changed it!

[@archenema6792]

@@edmundpower1250 Merely preempting false accusations, as you surmised. 😉

[@cigh7445]

'most violently ethno-nationalist enclave' Really yeah, ran all the non-Catholic Irish out did they? Destroy their Churches and prevent them from openly practicing their faith did they? Redistribute their wealth did they? Close their University (Trinity College) did they? Prevent them from being in government, on the Senate, serving as President, running some of the most profitable businesses, kick them out of the civil servant jobs they previously held under the British... Oh no wait! The most violently ethno-nationalist enclave in the world never did any of those things (unlike their neighbours up North) 😯 Even in the various parts of the Irish countryside I've lived it's the descendants of Protestant settlers who still have the best land, and they're as much as Irish and as much part of the communities as anyone else. And De Valera wasn't elected leader of the country for the first time until 1937, fifteen years after Collins' death, and he also didn't do any of the above. No country was perfect, but Ireland was far from the worst

[@dY5FUNCT10N4L]

The idea the Irish would debate this nonsense is crazy Every Irish person should know the craic here

[@theirishcontrarian4626]

I don't know what you are driving at. Let's hope you have a clear understanding