F.W. De Klerk | Apartheid Indefensible | Oxford Union

An extract from the Q&A segment of F.W. De Klerk's talk at the Oxford Union titled 'The new South Africa after twenty years'
President of South Africa who, together with Nelson Mandela, helped to end apartheid. Nobel Peace Prize winner.
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ABOUT F.W. DE KLERK: Frederik Willem de Klerk (born 18 March 1936), was the seventh and last State President of apartheid-era South Africa, serving from September 1989 to May 1994. De Klerk was also leader of the National Party (which later became the New National Party) from February 1989 to September 1997.
De Klerk brokered the end of apartheid, South Africa's racial segregation policy, and supported the transformation of South Africa into a multi-racial democracy by entering into the negotiations that resulted in all citizens, including the country's black majority, having equal voting and other rights. He won the Félix Houphouët-Boigny Peace Prize in 1991, the Prince of Asturias Award in 1992 and the Nobel Peace Prize in 1993 along with Nelson Mandela for his role in the ending of apartheid.
He was one of the deputy presidents of South Africa during the presidency of Nelson Mandela until 1996, the last white person to hold the position to date. In 1997 he retired from active politics. As of 2011 he remains active as a lecturer internationally.
ABOUT THE OXFORD UNION SOCIETY: The Union is the world's most prestigious debating society, with an unparalleled reputation for bringing international guests and speakers to Oxford. It has been established for 189 years, aiming to promote debate and discussion not just in Oxford University, but across the globe.

[@davidartist2750]

“In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies,....but the silence of our friends....” Martin Luther King

[@suzanneberger8202]

And MLK was assassinated by his own party (LBJ involvement) ... this so-called SA issue was not the issue, the global issue is and was the issue....

[@rumblejungle5590]

"I will give you the opportunity..." sounds like he got into Oxford as a political appointee

[@devviem]

What an answer! DAMN!

[@jamesr141]

Yeah the undergrad rarely gets a clean takedown on the historic politician. This guy literally ended Apartheid before the snotnosed student was born.

[@meshackgaolathe6492]

​@@jamesr141indeed

[@michaelmokotong]

A soiled hero. But a hero anyway. He achieved peace, that's better than most world leaders.

[@anthonyk1234]

Very true

[@lazer_kiw1]

3:29 "heh heh" in the background

[@pfdrtom]

It was "Here, here".

[@moosesnWoop]

@@pfdrtom Indeed was a Here Here. Africa was raped by colonial powers.

[@JohnDoe-ky9yn]

@@moosesnWoop Here Here? I don't think so. I bet it was "hear, hear", though...

[@osieta]

He is a proper African who seems to understand the whole Africa vs rest of the world divide.

[@Daniel-zw4jo]

If he understood Africa he would have understood the predicaments he was pushing his minority group into also.

[@chs1183]

Bullshit baffling brains

[@DADAMANism]

No such things as a white African.

[@chs1183]

@@DADAMANism anyone born on the African continent is an African which means any colour religion etc. etc.

[@DADAMANism]

@@chs1183 Nope. Only Africans get to decide that. Not colonizers.

[@kentrokken.fbitalelani9007]

That is true... United Nation as well...got the same policies that exist till today...former President Zuma also spoke about it

[@v8valiant68]

He speaks the truth about colonial rule.

[@christdiedforoursins8180]

Amazing im impressed , admit your faults be forgiven , and move on with a new perspective , call wrong wrong .if I wore a hat id take it off to him .

[@anthonyk1234]

How is south africa looking today?

[@abrihamabe7361]

I completely agreed with him that former colonials in Africa and elswhere should take steps to rectify the damage done in their former colonies.

[@gazesalso645]

I think what's needed is a restructuring of a global system that remains deeply exploitative. Reparations means a little bit of money which may ease conscienences and give Colonialist countries even more moral authority when preaching. But it's not going to help anymore than aid does. For every dollar of aid 21 flows out.

[@welcome33333]

and when the colonial powers left most countries failed to self govern, even up to today. In spite of their abundance of natural resources (which Europe lacks). It is up to the people, the culture, the values, the discipline to make a country work.

[@CorpusChristi-j8x]

​@@welcome33333the things you mentioned in your last sentence were destroyed by the colonizers when they first arrived. There was a genocide in every colony before White rule was established.

[@John-bravooo]

​@@gazesalso645NO.

[@gazesalso645]

@@John-bravooo I wasn't asking

[@stephenanderson1594]

The United States had similar policy to Apartheid in its southern states where blacks and latinos (the ones that didn't pass for white) were marginalized fast forward to 2018 though there has been some progress. Old conflicts are still lingering today all over the world.

[@carlosmpsenyorcapitacollon6977]

2018 wtf.

[@mrrdw77]

No group in America was ever oppressed because they were Latino. Your comment is very conflicting by nature. If culture was the reason of the oppression then all Latinos regardless of their complexion would be oppressed. Blacks in America are the only group that's ever faced oppression without compensation.

[@91Neyyd]

I don't think he said because they were latinos they were oppressed, but rather latinos that were non-whites like afro-cubans/afro-puertoricans/afro-panamanians/afro & mixed dominicans..... who lived in South at that time, were also discriminated under Jim crow. that's why he said (the ones that didn't pass for white).

[@ciaranthompson3375]

Apartheid was far worse than segregation in the south and only at face value do the systems of oppression share similarity

[@stephenanderson1594]

@@ciaranthompson3375 I can agree with that

[@jeffreywinkelman8671]

I love how people are still trying to say he was pro-apartheid or defended it, when he, together with mandela, abolished it! without him apartheid would've continued in some (if not all) parts of south africa!

[@ridgemondhigh4891]

De Klerk has a really neat accent.

[@thelaurels13]

He’s absolutely right, people in South Africa didn’t invent Apartheid, the colonial powers did. They light the match and then say look at the fire over there.

[@jdlc903]

That's nonsense, the Afrikaner party set up the apartheid system.its an akrikaner word.

[@gracekania2604]

@jeff _ Apartheid means separate in Afrikaans. Which is what they did.

[@seanjohnson5893]

@@jdlc903 They just gave it an Afrikaans name. Happiness is gelukkigheid. Great Britain is Groot Brittanje. Separate development is Apartheid. Definitely not nonsense. On the other hand, go and check who invented concentration camps and when. Look for "segregation in British West Africa" and see what comes back.

[@jdlc903]

@@seanjohnson5893 apartheid was set up by the Afrikaner national party ,it was their initiative "johnson"

[@80ki68]

He's such a bitch though, he was the president and he takes no responsibility for attempting to maintain apartheid, which his party did since its founding. This is like saying that the US didn't invent chattel slavery, Britain or Rome or Babylon or whoever else did, so it isn't the US's fault for continuing it. Or like saying that the Nazis didn't invent genocide and concentration camps, Britain and the Ottomans did, so it wasn't the Nazis' fault that they did the Holocaust. Its absolute nonsense.

[@mbarakabdulaziz3879]

Makes alot of sense what he says.. The segregation is still ongoing in Palestine. U.k played big part in their "colonization". Why is the English Monarchy not Questioned about it's past???

[@ditiromotene2582]

Mbarak Abdulaziz why is de Klerk and his cronies not in jail for enforcing apartheid ?

[@carlosmpsenyorcapitacollon6977]

@@ditiromotene2582 because he did not.

[@ditiromotene2582]

Chris Russell crimes against humanity

[@moosesnWoop]

Most world problems lead back to the English.

[@malopephasha5341]

@@moosesnWoop the English had long left south Africa during the afrikanneer rule

[@boereriem]

In the Modern Age one seldom sees the question asked "Who Started Apartheid?", mostly because the answer appears to be self evident, the Afrikaners of course. But this answer would be wholly incorrect. The word "Apartheid" might be an Afrikaans / Dutch word but the true fathers of Apartheid, or let us rather use the English phrase "Separate Development" are in fact the British. For this truth to be realized, one simply has to look at a map of the world to realize the amount of borders that were drawn up by the British, in their colonial distant and not so distant past. If we look at Southern Africa alone we can see the countries that were formed by British Imperialism, with the borders of Lesotho, Swaziland, Zimbabwe, Zambia, Malawi, Botswana, and South Africa being the creation not of the Afrikaner, but rather of the Brit. If one looks at this group of countries one would have to wonder at the might that forged such an empire, that could crush under foot so many, so brutally, stealing youth, destroying lives, and all the while stealing wealth so that crown jewels can be bedazzled with the greatest of gems. While one is wondering about these things, one might also wonder why were all these border drawn separately, instead of a single homogeneous multi cultural state, drawn around these states and the British Isles as well? Why did the British choose to draw these borders around these people, yet keep their own doors closed to these people? Now that answer SHOULD be evident to one that chooses to consider it, the British were the masters of Separate Development, or should I say Apartheid. It was the British that stand guilty of the first genocide of the last century, one committed against the Afrikaner that the British politician, and newsman so vilified in the press and on stage. It was a third of Boer men, woman, and children, that were killed by the British in concentration camps and PoW camps, whole families wiped of the face of this planet, and yet it is the Afrikaner that is still vilified. Show me the masses murdered by the Boer's, one would be hard put to do so, but for the British it is easy. History is replete with the truth of the British Empire, and their chase for wealth, yet it is the Boer that is vilified. What is interesting is that one would be hard put to find anything bad said about South Africa in the British press between 1905 and 1960, when the British Ruled the roost, and made the vast majority of laws, including the vast majority of race related laws, yet the moment the Unilateral Declaration of Independence is discussed, the world is told of the Evil Afrikaner empire. Before 1978 the same held true about Rhodesia, not a bad thing said about the Rhodies, yet the moment the UDI comes to light, the British Press is shouting loudly about how bad Ian Smith, and those racists are. Quick to forget that those racist laws were made by the British. But what of the Afrikaner's version of the British invention of Apartheid, what of this horrific construction for which they are vilified to this day, is it possible to Defend Apartheid? Well the answer is most assuredly yes, and how can that be so absolutely said, you might ask? The answer lies in an separate question, what would happen to the Afrikaner if the ANC treated him the same as he treated the Blacks during the so called "Apartheid Era"? And for that answer we have to look at the facts: Each black tribal group had their own land, with their own security services, governmental institutions, infrastructure, and laws. With "Apartheid" money world class hospitals, schools, universities, and more were built. If you look at the area that covered Bhoputatswana, handed to the Tswana people, this area included some of the most fertile land available, and underneath that fertile land, lay the Merensky Reef, the richest Platinum deposit on earth, handed over. If the ANC handed the Afrikaner a patch of dry desert, with nothing on it and said go live and develop separately, the Afrikaner would rejoice. So is the Afrikaner version of Apartheid defensible? Absolutely yes.

[@starguy321]

A lot of this is true, but it was Afrikaners who codified the laws of Apartheid. The British too until the 1960s allowed free immigration from all of the commonwealth, and often treated foreign workers in a much better way than West Germany treated their Gästarbeiter, or Switzerland their migrants. Racism is inexcusable, but the Afrikaners played a key part in creating Apartheid and sustaining it, that is for sure

[@boereriem]

@@starguy321 So tell me what was wrong with Apartheid, as the Afrikaner practised it? They gave massive stretches of land to each of the black tribes, built infrastructure for those countries, hospitals, schools, universities. They said here is your own country, where you can live as you want, and we cant interfere, oh and by the way we will pay for all your infrastructure. And let us be very clear the Afrikaner did not create Apartheid, they merely coined the phrase, the middle east, far east, africa, America is full of examples of British Apartheid. And let us not forget that it was the British that murdered the Boers in concentration camps, stole their land, stole the land of the Basutho, the Shona, and more. The Boers wanted a place of their own, and they were perfectly willing to grant those around them the same. And to be clear, up until 1960 the vast majority of anti black laws were written by the British in South Africa.

[@starguy321]

boereriem The subsidies the South African state provided were pitifully low for Black People, and were far less than the subsidies for whites. No other country in the world had, until so recently, places where you couldn’t walk, go, eat or live based on race. No other country had such draconian race separation laws. The conditions black people had to live in were far worse than those for whites. They had very few political rights outside the townships, which was an issue as they had no real influence over the decisions made that affected their lives. I find it bizarre you’re saying ‘apartheid wasn’t that bad’ and also saying ‘blame the British for evil apartheid.’ It’s such a contradiction. No other place in the world was so seperated as South Africa. Ottoman Jerusalem had three religions living together with virtually no segregation. If black People had it well in South Africa, why were so many people so happy to vote in 1994 and to see Nelson Mandela walk to freedom. It was because it represented their walk to freedom, as living as a black persons in Apartheid South Africa was akin to prison for many people

[@TheLadyIntegra]

The English might have started Apartheid, but the Afrikaans are the predominant force that believes in it today. English culture in South Africa has developed, for better or for worse, into one where white people feel ashamed for the mistakes of our ancestors and just generally feel uncomfortable around the topic of race. English culture has perfected white-guilt, which I don't personally believe in (sins of the father is a stupid concept) but it's a hell of a lot better than the way the Afrikaans culture has developed - which is to double-down on their racist beliefs because now they believe they have proof that white-supremacy is valid due to the mess the ANC has made of the country. The reason why I think "racism" when I think of the Afrikaans culture and not the English is because the Afrikaans culture is still actively racist today, because they still largely support apartheid today, because they teach their kids apartheid was awesome today. Now that's not to say that every Afrikaaner is racist, or that every English person is progressive, but the general trend is obvious.

[@ateyourchips1164]

First of all. Fuck you, I'm not reading this essay😂😂

[@majormasjid4038]

That s not him

[@willem7399]

Does anyone think what is now happening in South Africa is defensible? Is the wholesale theft and corruption happening in South Africa morally defensible? Is the murder rate and rapes in South Africa morally defensible?

[@davidmason4244]

Facts

[@nervestriker5798]

⚠️ Willem ⚠️ The world only cares about what is being reported on, and only if it addresses emotions and not reality. This is one thing we white South Africans understand, right? 😇😇😇

[@albertarthurparsnips5141]

Let’s not forget, too, that it’s worth keeping in mind that Mr De Klerk spoke English as a second language for the entirety of his life. Yet, he was able to express himself even on an ad hoc basis, rhetorically, with a command of it that certainly surpasses virtually any & all the drones, stammerers, cliche - utterers , & foot-in-mouth excuses for ‘leadership’ we put up with today.

[@nazeemzaakie6471]

the Real champion Mr de klerk . big think tank

[@ditiromotene2582]

nazeem zaakie champion of what chief

[@marcelleratafia2360]

yes and no. after having participated 20 years in the apartheid system (as deputy and minister) he began to abolish apartheid, in doing this he tried to safe many privileges of whites for a democratic south africa. his statements about apartheid in the cnn interview that preceded this speech, were unbearable. but also other analysis' came from hin, appropriates. and when you read the unappetizing comments of some afrikaners below, you see where the real problem is

[@nazeemzaakie6471]

@@marcelleratafia2360 some misundstooof him .he remain the champ

[@abshir2010]

Go foreward heal the past and prepare for the future as one United Force.

[@ronalddippenaar2381]

The sad thing for the Coloured people was that he and Wouter Basson allowed for the manufacture Mandrax and for it to be distributed and flourish amongst my people. He later did have it stopped but then the moral devastation amongst the people had already reached tragic proportions. Which is still a problem today for the Coloureds. And for that I and many of us will find it difficult to forgive him.

[@ChristopherHitchens3.14]

Belaglikste samesweringsteorie wat ek nog ooit gehoor het! Staaf jou voorstel met feite asseblief, veral as jy wil he iemand moet jou ernstig opneem!

[@kareemhesham2215]

Why does he sound like he wants to cry?

[@NileCooper]

afrikaaner accent

[@saneleofmargate8785]

@@NileCooper Plus being old

[@ateyourchips1164]

He's old

[@seanjohnson5893]

He was quite frail and had cancer for many years. He died in 2021 from cancer.

[@renierlombard5758]

"Economy improved" 1994 = $ = R3, 2022 = R17. We're looking at a total collapse of the energy grid. We lost everything.

[@skyt2166]

That’s true sir WELL SAID!!!

[@fkustaa]

What FW said during the interview with Amanpour of CNN was not necessarily misinterpreted, but he did come across as not coming forward to reject Apartheid as having been morally indefensible and reprehensible. During the interview in question, De Klerk kept emphasizing the fact that he has not apologized for what he referred to as the "original idea" of separate development on which the philosophy and practices of Apartheid were based. As he always does when this issue comes up during interviews, De Klerk appeared to be reluctant to just denounce Apartheid by trying to be evasive and confusing when he kept saying that, although Apartheid did work, the “original idea” was not wrong, and, therefore, there is no need to apologize for that. De Klerk should simply have told Amanpour that, with hindsight, he thinks that Apartheid was morally indefensible and reprehensible and left it at that.

[@Masterfortinero97]

I think I understand what his point is. When the wars in the balkans happened, a lot of countries independence themselves based on ethnic reasons and were recognised, even when such actions were illegal and unilateral (Slovenia, Croatia, Bosnia, Kosovo a few years after). Similar thing happens today with Israel, Palestinia separated by religious reasons. The thing is, many countries in the world exist just because of stupid ethnic bullshit, and the idea of South African apartheid was just part of that bullshit (go to Bosnia today and see the entities and cantons segragated by ethnic reasons and with ethnic legislation) but applied much worse.

[@denisdaly1708]

You are saying that at heart he is still a racist, and does not see that morality of apartheid. I agree with you. Conservatives are like that. They are never wrong. They deceive themselves, and engage in all sorts of mental gymnastics to make themselves feel good. Considerable research shows this to be the case.

[@christdiedforoursins8180]

Freddy K intetesting comment thanks for writing ,I never saw the interview , but in some way apartheid was formed to keep cultures in tackt to a certain extent , as tribes still could have kings rulers , with traditional cultural practices , instead of making all africa "western "by force , people could live in thier area and practice their culture.but im not an expert on the matter , thats just the knowledge I have from history and colonial and apartheid policies that I read about. Even still today africa is using many colonial political ideas , eg, parliment or democracy communisim or totalitarinaisim , they are not culturally African.apartheid is biblically wrong , as jesus is the saviour of all and the God of all but not evetyone believes in jesus, jesus said love oneanother as I have loved you, were called to die for eachother in love not build walls that seperate us .but we're not called to kill in the name of God .or any political ideologies.love is the perfect way.the NP were influenced by Calvinisim and german philosophy of Ficte ,Abraham kyper ,sometimes we beileve wrong things that need to be corrected , as jesus said a good tree bears good friut and a corrupt tree bears evil fruit you know a tree by the fruit it bears.apartheid was corrupt let us hope thst the future of south africa can be bright as the son of God who created all who live in the rainbow nation .

[@christdiedforoursins8180]

its just not biblical.

[@patrickkiplimo4927]

Black people? You don't have the courage to say that huh

[@joeruriti8418]

I have not though that far ,colonialism ideology who instigated some form of apartheid - African contiinate share larger . Great insights FW De Klerk and great leader who allows peace in South Africa.

[@thetruthhowjesusistheonlyw3217]

All these comments makes me understand why our country is where it is now , people have forgotten that Jesus Christ is the only way for our Nation not hate or regret! Moving forward is the future!!!

[@khumomatlakane2009]

Fuck that fictional biblical character. What we need are competent leaders

[@gralaw1965]

It is so sad where SA is now and where it’s heading! A bleak future

[@MrSupermanbe]

I hear you. However you have got to realise that during the apartheid era the economy and state apparatus was designed to benefit 10% of the population if that. The majority were excluded from the economy, proper housing, sanitation, schools, universities and in most cases basic things like recreation parts. The infrastructure was build for 10% of the population. To expand that to include everyone is no mean feat. Some people will remain excluded coupled by an incompetent and corrupt government and people who refuse to allow majority participation you have a mountain to move.

[@PFitz539]

MrSupermanbe : yep exactly. 👍

[@atehnkemotoh6892]

Oh shut up

[@Gratobe]

@@atehnkemotoh6892 Oh! Fuck Off

[@peggymahlangu1969]

SA had high interest rates, high debt, corruption, sanctioned and poor infrastructure. I have lived through all off that.

[@gregmenego2200]

"Boesman hand....vat my land"....thats de Klerk's legacy.

[@muzizondo117]

My question is, eg, John killed Jack and Jill based on skin colour, that's murder, court says this is crime against human race as a whole..? Should John apologise for murder or human race, remember he only killed 2 on motive. When John say killing was bad but not as bad as the court makes it out to be. Is he wrong?

[@davidrimanich5050]

He sold his people out and made sure they were not provided with protection for their physical and financial security ,while you can be sure his bank account in the Caymans is full. Listing to him make me want to throw up.

[@ricardobarahona3939]

Cringe

[@davidmason4244]

​@@ricardobarahona3939 how is it cringe that now the rightful white population of south Africa are being killed in droves.

[@marcbiele8020]

There should be a meeting of Frederik de Klerk, giving Nelson Mandela the juridical stipendia after 64 semester, and Michail Gorbatschow. In my eyes Apartheid was not so bad, it was a teaching-instrument of industrialised society, and I think an invention of Napoleon Bonaparte from St. Helena. For that giving, the Buhrens protected him.

[@WSZA1240]

Apartheid is over. That is all that should matter to the liberals. Yet here we are, 29 years after it ended and people still ask pointless questions that timewise, are irrelevant.

[@freedomisslavery6840]

Looking at the state of SA (and Zimbabwe) today I would say it was wholly defensible and justifiable.

[@vuuren007]

En kyk waar is ons nou...

[@kharisiyavuyanetshilema1609]

Is early you are going to be where God wanted everyone to be. Polarization is failing to balance natural laws. Everything is one and God wants unity. It was a stupid system which was based upon the fourth aspect of a good mind. We know this,we are Scientists owning own Science institutions. More than 80% of so called whites in South Africa are stupid and ignorant. They were used also but we're not given the right information in fact they were given lies that they were superior because a colour which is not a colour because it has melanin deficiency. So called white people are manufactured by swapping DNA, G replaced with an A. That's why the skin is so ugly. It sweat and smell so quickly. It wrinkles so quickly like hell from the age of 30's. It cost a lot of money to maintain it. It is not original but blacks are original and the ancestors to whites, which is a history that was hidden for centuries now everything is out, thank God for Science. Stop your ignorance..

[@rock3tcatU233]

Jammer man.

Khari Siyavuya Netshilema can you explain your comment ..,it’s very garbled and I struggled to understand it , particularly “ scientists owning own Science institutions “ what does this mean ?

[@ateyourchips1164]

Eish. Dis 'n groot shame😥

[@mohammadshabih5293]

Lol get fucked bro

[@kidsoulworld6879]

He should've been jailed

[@jerrycruitt5375]

Obviously Apartheid is the only rational, logical, moral system not only in South Africa, but in America, and all other relevant nations. It helps everyone, and allows personal responsibility for all.

[@Eohippus100]

he gave us the opportunity to grt out in time

[@user-lk2vj2wu3y]

A great Christian man who was able to try rectify his wrongs before dying. But monsters continued to attack his convictions that Apartheid was not a Christian value.

[@anonymousanimal1534]

South Africa under apartheid was better.

[@ndi8810]

Becos you benefited....our forefathers did not😂

[@izakkotze7034]

he is Smiling for us.

[@siriusdigitalmedia]

What did he see as being good about apartheid?

[@nick-her9275]

Try not to judge those of the past with the lense of today.

[@siriusdigitalmedia]

@@nick-her9275 I can judge ignorance at any point in time.

[@babatundipunjabi4499]

@@siriusdigitalmedia You have to look at the time and society he was living in. Every Afrikaner was a racist! At least he made change!

[@sethjikijela1267]

Why did he say that at the first place , I don’t believe or even buy his story and his apology

[@ramasodimalete2699]

well said, you are on the right side of history.

[@feetcapetown8312]

Thank you President De Klerk You were a real President and as you said. Apartgeid was brough by Colonialist Britten. All outside South Africa had a role to implement Apartheid. Now you Apoligise rveryone wants to jump onto you. You did Deserve YOUR NOBEL PRIZE. AMEN.

[@EscanV]

OMG did you fucking LISTEN at all! Where did he say apartheid was brought by Britain? Systems of segregation existed throughout history you dummy... LISTEN TO HIM...fucking dummy... Apartheid was created by Verwoerd... I'm a white South African and lived through this shit

[@nomcebolungelo1762]

Nxa rgha!!!!

[@glorzoglory998]

Spoiler alert. De Klerk defends apartheid today. The global far right resurgence has emboldened people like him to speak their truth. Apartheid was good for the Afrikaners, they always knew that, just now they stopped pretending they're sorry about their crimes against humanity . . .

[@hendrikvandermescht2344]

I'm 100% for Apartheid and if you don't like then go buy yourself a few Grandpa's and go to bed. I will never be a Zulu and a Zulu can't be a Boer. Can a Zulu be a French? No and the same a Boer can't be a French. Rainbow nation my ass

[@nick-her9275]

I’m with you on this one.

[@optimistic5778]

Apartheid was 100% defensible.

[@whatnamewhatnameson4098]

No. An oppresive system created by invaders can never be defensible.

[@rosinaramahlo5539]

I'm really confused when de Klerk mentioned that apartheid was initiated by colonial countries but not himself. De Klerk said he realised that apartheid was wrong when he was 21-25yrs old. The question is, why then did he not reverse that as soon as he was elected as the South African president, as it took him a while to try to do that, moreover he had all the powers to do so,but he chose not to do that, but to continue with that apartheid. He had all the powers to choose how he wanted his country to live, but he failed to make it possible. In other words he is trying to tell the South Africans community that, even if he had been elected as a South African president, was there still someone out there who dictated to him how to run his country? Whichever to me it sounds so stupid, because if it was dictated upon what to do, those people would have simply ordered him to kill all the people who were living under apartheid, he would have done that. Please, de Klerk, if i were you, i would not have invited you to come and lie to all those innocent people.

[@RiaanPretorius]

Why is that questioner so arrogant?

[@vernonbrowne6127]

Because the questioner is an a******

[@johnswan6759]

Because he is full of himself

[@dedasoul7708]

Can someone tell him that there are no words that can justify his killings of black people through apartheid

[@zannonjames1413]

They just don’t get that man. Apartheid fucked our country up- still to this day.

[@elizeoosthuizen5452]

Can someone tell Ramaphoza, that so many white and coloured people died since the rainbow nation please

[@zannonjames1413]

Lol oh his the reason we don’t have apartheid 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@imtiyaazgangat5293]

@@pre-dawnraid9037 so true and nothing comes from all the current killings we are living our lives in fear all the time we didn't live like this 20 year ago

[@pre-dawnraid9037]

@@zannonjames1413 - indeed he is the reason. As a minister he had limited influence or power. As soon as he became the president, he started to unban the cANCer. A year later Mandela was free, because of De Klerk.

[@krishnanaidu6420]

This country was Functioning better than the ANC. Our country was once top of the world. Today it is worst than Apartheid.

[@WolverinePete]

I couldn't stand this guy in "Lethal Weapon 2". Lol

[@priehowell8825]

😂😂😂😂 You bloody nailed it. He got dekaffirnated lol

[@ditiromotene2582]

When is he going to be charged in a international court ? When will he be charged for he’s role in he’s human rights violations? If a murder says sorry for he’s crimes, do you hand him an award and relief him of he’s crimes against humanity?

[@omargalant9757]

Ditto its happening right now here in S.A.

[@glorzoglory998]

@@omargalant9757 yes the precedent was set back when Botha and his government walked free.

[@badouradavids5105]

go look what mogammad .p.b.o.him.recommend of course its to forgive because its better for u its recommends today its a proven piont no old bagged plus god will heal the broken hearts no one can do that only the creator can instill that .and he does not say that we cannot hold someone like f.w .accountable but allah says he recommend to move on if u know whats better .so what is more better than forgiveness

[@jacobzaranyika9334]

I agree Great Britain.

[@Gustavo-x4]

At least he apologised for discriminating against black people. I can't say the same about the UK, US, Germany, Spain, France, the Dutch, e.t.c. How disgraceful!

[@nestorflermius]

Well said. I'm hope he still feels the same

[@MattSuguisAsFondAsEverrr]

he's the same guy ever since the 2000s, up until his death rip

[@barend4803]

Yea also, when he that is a fool walketh by the way, his wisdom faileth him, and he saith to every one that he is a fool. Ecclesiastes 10:3 KJV

[@willemvanaswegen1937]

This is a very good example why South Africa is going downhill. In reality, South Africa today is much worse off (than 30 years ago). The only people that benefited from this is the so called black elites. Your unemployment and crime are at all-time high. Your GDP is -3.2%. The South African economy slumped sharply. Seven of the ten industries took a knock, with manufacturing, mining and trade the biggest contributors to the fall. Construction, mining and trade are in recession. The only industry that pulled South Africa through, primary industries (ironically including white farms) are up for nationalisation. The place is in a mess. If you do not believe it, do you own research. I used the government own sources - www.statssa.gov.za/?page_id=735&id=1 which are already screwed. In reality it is much worse - unemployment is not 26% but close to 60%. The ANC has replaced Apartheid (separateness) with ApartHATE (racism). Or should we call it ANC-hate. Ok, now let’s talk about the evil system, called "Apartheid". How evil was Apartheid? Question is, how do you measure evil? Do you have a universal scale or index how we can measure the deeds of evil so we can make a judgement? For the purposes of this, let us take the Universal Declaration of Human Rights as the final arbiter of what is evil and what is not, how could we then judge Zimbabwe as being eviler than, for example, China or Saudi Arabia - two countries enjoying marvellous ties with the West despite their abysmal human rights records and lack of democracy. Be that as it may; it would be quite an interesting exercise to take a list of five words to rank according to the evilness 'index' of the West. For example; take the words Apartheid, Biafra, Hutu, and Kim IL Sung, and then give them a rating-number, 1 - 5, on the supposed scale of the evil they signify. Try it.It would not be surprising if your ranking closely resembles the original order of the words listed I have given. The last four words/names will most probably be vaguely familiar and have some negative connotations, whereas the first word, Apartheid, is guaranteed to conjure up images of the evilest kind. The question now obviously is whether evil is evil most foul simply because you know about it. Do a Google search and you will see that the ones you ranked least worse are actually genocides of a million and more! To be fair, why do we not use the South Africa’s Truth and reconciliation statistics. Yes of cause the data is skew, and millions was pumped into getting behind the truth. Before you read further - answer these three questions: How many people did the Apartheid government killed; How many people died because of right wing racist attracts, and how many people died due to black on black conflict and still continuing today, if you oppose the ANC government? Write it down. According to the commission report, did you know that fewer than 600 (5.6%) people were killed by security forces in South Africa during the 42 years of Apartheid? And did you know that 92% of all the politically motivated deaths during Apartheid (total 21,000) was due to black-on-black (mostly tribal) violence? ANC / Inkatha/ unions. less than 100 people died due to white racism. Do not get me wrong, 600 are too many of course, but seen against the background of the never-ending vilification of white South Africans, the four million-man genocides mentioned above and innumerable unknown other evils like, for example, Robert Mugabe's knighthood - awarded by the Queen while he was massacring over 20,000 Matabeles in 1984. This must surely illustrate that selective (media-borne) knowledge of evil can never be the ultimate criteria when putting together an 'index' of universal evil. Whites stand accused of quantifying evil, let us examine the reason why Apartheid's 600 dead in 42 years is judged as being eviler than, amongst others, Pol Pot's 2 million dead in 4 years and Rwanda's 1 million dead in 3 months. Apartheid South Africa was ruled by whites, and whites (the West) demand that their kin, wherever they may find themselves on this lonely planet, act according to the moral standards they have set themselves, be it those inherent in human rights, democracy or neo-liberalism, in general. It is a pity, there are no rule for black, by blacks demanding that. Whenever a white nation transgresses, it is punished till it conforms… and rightly so. Noble and honourable indeed the West's moral hegemony is, especially given the fact that none of the other races bother to do so at all. Unfortunately, this did not happen in with British Empire - concentration camps or what they did in India, America Red Indians, Australia Aborigines, or New Zealand Maoris. Non-white nations like, Japan can't be bothered by China's human rights abuses and lack of democracy, neither can black South Africa by Mugabe's horror regime, or Saudi Arabia by the Taliban's madness. Different moral strokes for different coloured folks, it would seem. But then, the West has always been on a mission to make existence as liveable as possible, for all humanity. A quest not easily undertaken or brought to fruition, especially when living in the moral outskirts of progressive human existence... like in Africa. Now according to the South African Human Rights Commission statistics - Did you know that the life expectancy of black South Africans nearly equalled that of Europeans during the last decade of Apartheid? Did you know that the black population nearly trebled during Apartheid? Did you know that black South Africans had the highest per capita income and education levels in Africa during Apartheid? No, of course you didn't, because your view of evil has already been defined… by the your own willful `filtering` of morality. How does one measure evil? Is there such a thing as a universal ‘index’ according to which deeds of evil can be judged? If we, for example, take the Universal Declaration of Human Rights as the final arbiter of what is evil and what is not, how could we then judge Zimbabwe as being eviler than, for example, China or Saudi Arabia - two countries enjoying marvellous ties with the West despite their abysmal human rights records and lack of democracy. Is this blatant hypocrisy?Next time you watch the super bowl, football match or any sport event, look around. There should be about 80,000 spectators. That is about the same figure of white people who got murdered by blacks in South Africa since 1994. www.news24.com/MyNews24/White-Genocide-fact-or-fiction-20130520I am very disappointed in you and the so-called free media and western nations. Countries like Sweden, Britain and other who forced down sanctions against Apartheid not doing anything. It is sick. I am Australian, and I will keep telling the world what is actually happening in your country. You see I believe in justice , but justice for all. What you did to portray Apartheid and the evil system, is exactly what you doing and worse. The longer you keep you mouth shut, the deeper you going to fall. Then who are you going to blame?

[@thesmithersy]

I can't blame De Klerk for getting a bit agitated, he's the guy who ended apartheid after all and yet he never gets any credit and constantly gets demands to apologise for a system that he abolished.

[@seanhawes601]

What credit. All planned. He knew he had to. Cause that war if that had to cross the border. And the emotions so high in sa itself. That would mean disaster. And all of them would hav been arrested. So it's actually odd that they weren't

[@thesmithersy]

@@seanhawes601 He didn't have to, he could have kept it. Remember he swore his cabinet to absolute secrecy only 2 days before because it would have been such a shock if he's done it as he did without saying.

[@LivingSA23]

He didn't abolish, he only gave in in order to go down with something than be defeated with nothing,the writing was on the wall it was only a matter of time. his strategy worked because white people are still rich in SA n blacks still poor just like in apartheid

[@thesmithersy]

@@LivingSA23 Yes he did, he got the legislation through and signed it into law. If blacks are still poor after 25 years of black majority rule, whose fault is that? Not de Klerk's. The ANC inherited a prosperous country that they could have turned into a multi-racial ideal place but through corruption, squandered everything they inherited.

[@gazesalso645]

@@thesmithersy The harm of apartheid runs deep. You can't just hand over the reigns of a country, sit back and then think somehow people that were treated their whole lives as being inferior and worthy only of bantu education suddenly are going fix spatial disparities, fix the highest inequality rate in the world, fix racism, roll out infrastructure to black people that had nothing before, perform in an open market economy all on top of the problems that all countries face - poor policy decisions, corruption, implementation issues etc. It sounds like you were expecting a miracle. How come you're so charitable towards de Klerk, but have little for the government that got a hospital pass?

[@ecpnothnagel9121]

No, the colonial powers invented segregation and the concept that certain peoples were superior to others. Britain also maintained that the British were superior to the Afrikaners (who are, in fact, white). Apartheid was an attempt to keep self determination for a minority who inherited a unified state from the British Empire by compensating the also conquered black nations of South Africa through giving them their own countries to live in. Only, neither the West nor the Soviets accepted this rather liberal idea, fighting South Africa with sanctions on the one side and AK47s on the other until it all collapsed. I'm glad Apartheid is over and done because one people should never rule over another. Not through imperialism, ideology or sheer demographic dominance. Preserve the dignity of peoples by allowing each to be as independent as they choose to be. One would think a Nobel prize winner would be able to admit to his own, extremely consequential, actions.

[@alejandrosotomartin9720]

And one scientific question to the leftists. If your politically correct science say that all we come from Africa then why we shouldn´t return to it?

[@Yashveersingh87]

Top guy

[@judithlinks1451]

abalaziyo ibali bathi ewe kwakubuhlungu kudala but nonko i Economy kwakungantsalwa nzima kakangaka yinyani uba umtu omnyama uyothi womfaka esihlalweni abe greedy asebenzele yena alibale uba ubekelwe uncedisana nesizwe sethu

[@ajm6464]

JY'T NOU SOVEEL KAK GEPRAAT, JOU KOP SUIG OP IN JOU HOL. BYE BYE NEANDERTHAL LOL!!!

[@cjhero20yt82]

@@ajm6464 Hyt eintlik so bietjie goed van die ou dae gepraat as jy xhosa verstaan

[@lekholokoelekotsoanamoloi9593]

It seems like it is always the case . Someone called it the orphanage syndrome . However Former President Le Larcq here stated some of the issues that contribute to that . Proper education and a proper democracy. Kuyevakala wethu ?

[@oupalekoloane5211]

Tsek

[@thetruthabouttee766]

Oupa Lekoloane 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂dead

[@rsamancunian5609]

Did you watch the video or did you just read the title and thumbnail and then proceeded to comment.

[@MYBLOODYUSERNAMEFFS]

Haha that's what Insaid when I fired my gardener 🤣🤣

[@redjasper2443]

Everyone to blame but you, you only changed because they paid you

[@TM30434]

I have a lot of respect for this guy, he took a bold and brave move to dismantle apartheid!!!

[@chs1183]

Money exchanged hands and you respect that I pitty your morals and values

[@tendaimpofu9453]

Kkk the internet is good. When i hear the word afrikaner or boer i see an evil racist monster. But listening to de klerk speak i start revising some of my thoughts. They r some Afrikaners with a conscience and ability to reason

[@antonopperman6792]

Onoselheid en lafhartig heid

[@abshir2010]

De Klerk said it all. Apartheid must be abolished long time ago

[@lebzmolefe5156]

Ukhuluma impandla enukayo melushe wena

[@seanjohnson5893]

Idiot

[@priehowell8825]

And a traitor

[@basilhendricks788]

A hole he could not even look after his ex wife, she died such a horrible death, moeskonner

[@proudmashilwane4301]

You said a month Mr De Klerk

[@nothandozondo779]

Like what is he even saying😒?

[@lm_b5080]

he is saying that apartheid is indefensible, colonial powers have raped africa, he - like gorbachev - tried to change the system from the inside

[@moosesnWoop]

He speaks truth though 3:29 is a FACT. Also, he speaks about what was left behind - and hence we are facing the issues. Remember, F.W. De Klerk is no common Afrikaner - he was at Madiba's calibre and ultimately if we look at Tata Madiba, can we think he wouldn't have rubbed off on him? Him and Madiba are pillars of values for us as South Africans. Both are criminals, both are saviours. How can we really judge?

[@sebastianlems8497]

This guy is soo right

[@zamamaduma7424]

He's talking rubbish he's still racist even today just lacking the platform to exercise it

[@truth-Hurts375]

Took 5years for your words to become true...I refer to his recent comments.

[@user-tl2cs6wv8b]

Zamaduma Maduma 💯%

[@riaanrademeyer8367]

why worry of what he is saying now this country is doomed

[@tfmkhonza5084]

@@riaanrademeyer8367 in yo dream European

[@riaanrademeyer8367]

@@tfmkhonza5084 im no European im a cape coloured ...what is ther to enjoy in this place ..thers no jobs ..ppl are still staying in shacks ...only som has the benefit of the new south Africa ......south africa is fucked up ..open your eyes plz

[@lucasmaake6603]

Our money and your son

[@lourensvdberg6564]

Jys n poes

[@EscanV]

And you aren't? Grow up you racist

[@spongebobsquarepants4137]

00:52 "Telephonic"

[@basjanboomklim4205]

Yes. That's how people communicated using telephones.

[@mduduzithulanizungu9044]

dey dnt change

[@susanboggenpoel2593]

That's truth

[@charlesrogers2953]

Hi Folks - History is going to prove that apartheid was way ahead of it's time, what how history unfolds.

[@JK-gu3tl]

I wish history prove how anti-capitalist this system was.

[@SmartRobot-wc2fb]

He's on the right side of history! Period!

[@danielo4720]

🤣🤣 Wow I wonder which history is that..The white or real history

[@SmartRobot-wc2fb]

@@danielo4720 If he was on the wrong side of history like Pieter Willem Botha, it would be the white side. If it wasn't for him, there still would exist apartheid.

[@danielo4720]

@@SmartRobot-wc2fb that's where you are wrong my friend the Apartheid system was crumbling after the UN acknowledged what was happening and imposed sanctions soo whether he was president or not it was gonna end regardless Maybe more bloody but it was sure gonna end

[@SmartRobot-wc2fb]

@@danielo4720 Really?! So, why there's still racism and blood in South Africa and in the USA? If who's in power doesn't want to you get what it is...that's reality...and I also mean by "power" a whole system of beliefs...

[@Daniel-zw4jo]

What you have done Mr de Klerk is also indefensible. You and your team should have negotiated a better deal for the white vulnerable minority.

[@tk-9751]

Well last time I checked the minority still holds the wealth of this country. So what better deal?

[@100domathon]

If any wants to blame anyone they should blame Portugal. They are the ones who started the African Slave trade and colonization of Africa. They held Angola and Mozambique as colonies until 1975!

[@stuartthompson8056]

I agree it is absurd that Portugal continued to have imperialist ambitions in Africa so late on!

[@upermax2008]

When you state something it must be based on FACTS..These are the most ridiculous, untrue, un-academic, remarks EVER!!!@..Long before the Portuguese Navigators there were others.....! African Slave-trade?..this was started by the Africans them-selves with ARAB- countries..selling their own people !!!!......now blaming the European -people!!..AFRICANS are renowned to be the HARDEST, un-democratic rulers..EVER....!!..Just look North..start next door..Zimbabwe...from there...??..I let you use your BRAIN..and literature....!!..You will become the wiser....

[@andreventer9231]

True

[@upermax2008]

Acknowledge reality:- WE ARE ALL BEING PLAYED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[@jondow2375]

Not True my friend the Muslims where the first to start the slave trade in Africa and used Mozambique and KZN in South Africa as a pic up point whereby they had a deal with the Zulu king at the time to supply the slaves Portugal and others followed later and took a piece of the pie and later colonized those areas if one can say they actually help the black slave population by ending the castration of men by the Zulu king and the Muslims and eventually ended the slave trade from those areas rather late than never so i can say with confidence that they helped the black populous in those areas in a weird way

[@mzilenianele6959]

Anele

[@MartinViljoen]

my oupa is nou in die jaar dood op n 100 jaar oud, hy kon nie genoeg se hoe n stuk gemors jy was nie, mense , ons almal in die rug gesteek ,nadat JY gedreig was jou traitor!

[@josephkalusokoma1378]

Ishh

[@doxholiday1372]

"Separating people is indefensible." Uhh, why? The Boer people built that country from the ground up, it's theirs to manage how they please, if foreign arrivals don't like it they can leave. What give anyone the right to say I don't think what you've given us is enough, we want it all? I sure hope Christians don't support this anti biblical view of the world, considering the bible teaches that God is the one who divided nations and established borders. It would be a shame if they made common cause with the ungodly just because it seemed popular at the time, that's not how principles work, you're supposed to stand up for what's right regardless of what people think. "When the most High divided to the nations their inheritance, when he separated the sons of Adam, he set the bounds of the people according to the number of the children of Israel." - Deut 32:8 Apartheid means separation.

[@chirandumasango7702]

Israel not South Africa. read and understand

[@047mihlali]

Vocckooooffff

[@xilxwalk3r_vklixk78]

Traitor

[@EscanV]

Traitor to whom?

[@priehowell8825]

​@@EscanV Suid-Afrika en die mense

[@nqobilek]

this man has blood in his hands his not far from hitler i dont know he slept @ night

[@boereriem]

My Question to you, OxfordUnion is this: What of the European Ancestors that still reside on that Southern Part of Africa, those who have not been murdered or fled the country, because they are unable to? What of them? The reality is that if you vehemently believe, as it would appear you do, that the Afrikaner has no moral or legal reason to oppose in the absolute "Expropriation Without Compensation", "Affirmative Action" processes that favor the Majority over the Minority, if you truly believe that the Afrikaner should not be there, then who not speak to your Lords sitting in their green leather seats, and say that the Afrikaner must be given passage to Europe, the right to work, the right to return to the place of his ancestors. If you believe that the Afrikaner is the beneficiary of land that he does not deserve, then allow him the opportunity to return to Europe, and hand the land back to the African...... Or are you just like your ancestors less interested in what is right, and more interested in wiping the proud Boer nation of the face of the earth?

boereriem 👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏

[@CrappyScrap]

2:50 De Klerk talks as if the British Empire conquered South Africa and subsequently introduced racial segregation. Is he genuinely unaware of the fact that the independent Boer republics enforced racial segregation long before they were subdued by the British?

[@ajm6464]

WOW, DISTORTING HISTORICAL FACTS, FFS MUST ADMIT URE GOOD AT IT, BUT WE KNOW URE JUST A FUCKIN NEANDERTHAL IDIOTIC FOOL, RIGHT LOL?

[@conallwalsh2709]

Independent boer republics didnt exist until after the british had taken control of south africa from the dutch

[@CrappyScrap]

@@conallwalsh2709 The British captured the Cape Colony from the Dutch, i.e. a minor part of present-day South Africa.

[@seanjohnson5893]

@CrappyScrap You clearly don't know South African history. It's far too complex to explain here but you need to do a lot more reading. Start with Southern African tribalism. Look at the Xhosa and Zulu wars. Look at what triggered the battles that did break out between the Afrikaners and the Zulus. Look at how Natal and Zululand came about (British "Apartheid"). Look at the Mfecane. The destruction of most wildlife across all of the British colonies in South Africa (even before unification). Also note that that Simon van der Stel who was governor in the Cape in the 1600s was not white. His son was also later governor. As was commonplace for the Dutch, many of them married non-whites hence the large mixed-race or "coloured" population in the Cape region. How would they enforce racial segregation before the British arrival when they were in fact of mixed race themselves? Perhaps you could tell me how many of the British who landed in South Africa and instigated wars were not white? In fact the British were so obtuse that their military ranks were filled based on the white British class system and not on experience and skill which is why they had so many failures and casualties in wars. They were so arrogant that they arrived and invaded to take over wearing bright red military uniform. Read more about the South African war (formerly the "Anglo-Boer War") and see which side the non-whites chose to fight on. Then come and tell the correct version of history instead of the drivel that you post here.

[@CrappyScrap]

@@seanjohnson5893 Was there racial equality in the Transvaal and the Orange Free State before 1899? Yes or no.

[@mtho4sure]

do you think apologising was enough?

[@fahoodie1852]

I mean he was literally the one who ended apartheid

[@zannonjames1413]

Mandela really gave this man a pass

[@ajm6464]

MANDELA HAD NO OPTION. AT THAT TIME, HE HIMSELF FACED ASSASSINATION OR/AND A COUP. SIMPLE AS THAT!!!!! IN FACT IT CAN STILL HAPPEN ANY DAY. WHEN U KEEP ON BANGING ON AN EMPTY DRUM, SOONER OR LATER U MUST TAKE THE CONSEQUENCES.

[@nervestriker5798]

Mandela was a communist psychopath, a freak, a weirdo, a racist and a savage Canaanite loser 😇😇😇

[@reinhardtwiegand8020]

In the new south afrika they always blame Apparteit for the things they cannot fix! If there s problems in the New SouthAfrika, then they always blame it on Apparteit! Like, do not blame the operator of the system, blame the system for the mistakes in live! In the new south afrika you can get a job just with 30% degrees or schooling. So, we did not study the other 60% education?? . There are nothing wrong with the word Apparteit! Apparteit means - do not come into my Private Live! My private live is myne only! I'm old school, and old-school are 💖👍👍👌.