The Aquatic Ape Hypothesis (Is Silly)

[@brae9119]

“That doesn’t mean trickster deities are walking amongst us today” is EXACTLY what a trickster deity would say if they were walking amongst us.

[@flednanders7556]

Note how the trickster deity subconsciously brings up the topic of amogus and narrowly avoids a direct freudian slip.

[@carlos6126]

Exactly! Robert was right! That's what you're saying right? Let's go bob!!!

[@mattburgess5697]

I WOULD NOT! I mean they. They would not.

[@Julian0101]

You are thinking to much... Look! A distraction! [Proceeds to run away]

[@ParanormalEncyclopedia]

I don't know the idea the last few years of US politics were a bet between Loki and Coyote that got out of hand has a certain charm. A prank by a trickster would explain Trumps rise to power particularly since such pranks usually explode in the tricksters face.

[@petersmythe6462]

The Aerial ape hypothesis: 1. Humans can get many diseases from bats, and some people thought bats may be related to humans. 2. Humans often attempt to mate for life with a single partner, and have single offspring at a time, much like many large flying animals. Monogamy is rare in land mammals, roughly 2-3% of species, but extremely common in birds, and mammals with the most birdlike lifestyles are also the most monogamous. 3. Some blind people learn to echolocate like bats. 4. Large hindlimbs are often present in large flyers due to the difficulties associated with bipedal launch. 5. Humans have dramatically reduced dentation, a common trait among flyers. 6. Shockingly, one of the most advanced traits of flyers is a reduced tail. Humans have no meaningful tail, implying a prolonged ancestry of flight. 7. Humans have darker pigmentation than most African mammals. This could be explained by living at very high altitude, in flight or at nesting sites. 8. Modern birds in Australia use fire to their advantage and actively spread it in order to hunt. Humans, as an aerial animal, could easily avoid the flames while swooping down to pick off prey. 9. The long legs and straight body of a human could work as an excellent landing gear. 10. On average, the neuron count relative to body mass of flying animals is much higher. As is true with humans. 11. Humans have exceptionally sharp forward-facing vision. A textbook trait of aerial predators. 12. Do you ever look at a beautiful landscape and want to just soar over its cliffs and between the clouds?

[@whattalks]

Very Silly. Not worth a reply.

[@petersmythe6462]

@@whattalks Your reply disagrees. 🦇🦅🕊️🪶🦜🐦🐥🦢🦩🦚✈️🛩️🛫🛬

[@FringeSpectre]

Fucking amazing. I knew my lucid dreams of flying around in my backyard weren't for nothing

[@MrDalisclock]

#Batsarentreal /s

[@jeremiasrobinson]

They've been looking for Atlantis in the wrong places. It's in the SKY!

[@algi1]

How did he get from "humans are drawn to the beautiful waves of the open water" to "therefore we lived in dark caves with glowing fungi"?

[@victorvelie3980]

Cause He's a nazi conspiracy theorist who thinks the Jews are trying to prevent us from finding out about lost civilizations under the crust, living off of glowing mushrooms, not even kidding

[@erniemathews5085]

Great point. It makes him look pretty silly.

[@jasonwitte9582]

Hahaha. I didn't even put those points together. Nice

[@iluvtacos1231]

Very, uh,....carefully?

[@ReiperX]

basically, yeah.

[@rootsnootthnute8598]

This Dude: We're aquatic apes. Gutsick Gibbon: No, we are sweaty apes.

[@arctrog]

I was insulted 😂

[@mobbs6426]

That might be a better name for us than wise apes Homo Insudore

[@justme0910]

About the whole "ancient religions talk about humans coming out of caves" thing ... That's because for millennia, our species has associated caves with the "underworld", where spirits/gods/the dead are supposed to dwell. Which is a completely natural thing for people to believe, because caves are dark and mysterious and filled with things and creatures you can't find anywhere else, while also providing shelter and a safe place to gather for religious ceremonies. Also, most cultures bury their dead in the ground and make stuff out of clay (including statues that represent humans or animals), so the earth itself is associated with both death and creation. Humans coming from the earth and returning to the earth is a poetic sentiment that appeals to many cultures and has comforted millions of people in their grief. To claim that these myths are a literal account of human evolution is absurd.

[@ChristopherSadlowski]

Tell me about it! It's such a weak argument it's actually physically painful to listen to it. I forget what I was watching, but it was about the creatures of ancient myth like Medusa and the hydra and such. The guy basically said that ancient humans were too stupid to make things up from their imagination so these MUST have been things they literally experienced in life. I was like, "I'm sorry, what!? These people figured out how to build the pyramids and arches and aquaducts and figure out complex geometry and abstract mathematics like algebra. Don't tell me they didn't have as active imaginations as we do today." I was personally insulted on behalf of our ancestors.

[@blastortoise]

It's not natural to associate dark areas with gods or spirits lol. I think you meant that it's natural to associate the unknown with terrifying ideas, or something like that.

[@heatherkuhn6559]

@@ChristopherSadlowski Well, couldn't gorgons and hydras have been inspired by things like mating balls and swarms of snakes emerging from winter hibernation (or hibernating in caves, FTM)? Even modern humans often use real life experience as jumping off points for their imaginations.

[@ragingfirefrog]

@@heatherkuhn6559 The ball of snakes made me think of the ball of daddy long legs you can occasionally find. I think the bugs would be more of a surprise because of how they look at a distance.

[@kelliepatrick519]

Caves are more often associated as the 'womb' of the earth.

[@Jake_DapperInsideJoke_Nelson]

As a parent, I can say, you are dead on. I have watched my daughter grow physically and mentally in the world around her. She was so furry when she was born that I started calling her "changita." (Little Monkey, in Spanish.) I still call her "monkey" when I talk to her, and I have spent hours explaining to her that she is both an ape, and a monkey, and why. She turns 5 on the 25th of May, but she already has a deep understanding of evolution. Thank you for helping me with achieving that.

[@catpoke9557]

That's really cool. I was taught growing up that evolution didn't exist, so I always thought taxonomy was SUPER boring. I wondered why some people are so into it. Now that I've learned how evolution works I know it's not just "This thing looks a certain way, so this word applies for some reason." It's really complex and cool and meaningful. Taxonomy is awesome.

[@dylanfooler]

Aw, that's super sweet, there's a show Lucifer where a main character has a little girl who's nickname is also Monkey. I love fun nicknames, my mom is Aunt Achoo bc when my cousin was a baby she would splash water after washing her hands and go "achoo!" all the time, and his nickname was Moo Moo bc he ate Everything we let him try, fun nicknames are just so cute!

[@Jake_DapperInsideJoke_Nelson]

@Dylan Fooler I actually love the show Lucifer. (I'm an atheist religion nerd. Don't believe it, but love the mythology, and new mythology based on it.)

[@ScienceisRadAF]

What a cool coincidence that I’m seeing your comment when I am. Happy 7th bday, Changita!!!

[@og9443]

So confidently lying to his own daughter. Complete embarrassment.

[@RideAcrossTheRiver]

Robert: Humans have downward, streamlined noses meant for swimming Billions of Humans: I HATE SWIMMING I ALWAYS GET WATER UP MY NOSE

[@ferociousfeind8538]

noses "meant for swimming" are capable of sealing themselves with musculature! like whales and dolphins and stuff! human noses are stuck open, the meager muscles tugging at the nose aren't strong enough (nor, like, organized properly) to pull and hold the nostrils shut

[@RideAcrossTheRiver]

@@ferociousfeind8538 Sealable nose and ears would guarantee you Olympic medals!

[@katkit4281]

​@@RideAcrossTheRiver There are many traits associated with the aquatic ape hypothesis that followers claim is because of an aquatic lifestyle but is wrong on a biological level. The nose is such an example. Another one is that they claim our breath control where we instinctively hold our breath underwater is because of the AAH. However this is a trait in every single mammal species called the mammalian dive reflex meaning it evolved way before the AAH timeline. Same with sweating. According to the AAH we sweat to get rid of extra salt from the aquatic lifestyle. However all primates sweat not just humans. So once again like the other example above it is an evolved trait that came about much earlier than the AAH timeline. Supporters of the AAH never do research. They just parrot what they hear without any real understanding of the topic. This causes them to often use long outdated information such as still thinking humans are the only primate that sweats.

[@JL-tm3rc]

The proboscis monkey have a nose similar to us and interistingly enough these monkey live on trees along rivers or mangrove areas where they constantly swim on the water.

[@cognitiveTrifurcation]

I say this as someone training to get certified for SCUBA diving: Nobody who spends any real amount of time underwater thinks humans are descended from aquatic ancestors. We *suck* at being in the water. Swimmer's shoulder, bone spurs in the inner ear, decompression sickness.... if our ancestors were aquatic apes, our bodies would be adapted to those sorts of pressure changes at least on a small scale, and our joints and muscles would be more able to bear the load of swimming.

[@charles2521]

It's like saying that sunburn proves that humans didn't come from Africa, or that our feet prove we're not primates.

[@GameTimeWhy]

That's not analysis at all ​@@charles2521

[@HYDROCARBON_XD]

@@charles2521idiot that’s just a skin problem those are whole anatomical problems

[@Aliyah_666]

Well said, we are simply highly adaptable and adamant.

[@NathanTarantlawriter]

It's all very silly isn't it?

[@janmelantu7490]

“Caves don’t have wind” this guy has never even *visited* a cave. Literally the first thing I learned about caves when I visited Carlsbad Caverns (and learned it again at Natural Bridge Caverns, Mammoth Cave, etc.) was “if it blows, it goes”. Wind is the easiest way to tell if there’s cave or not

[@FringeSpectre]

How so? Can you elaborate? I'm not being an jerk I'm genuinely curious because I've never been to a cave neither lol.

[@WarAndFame]

@@FringeSpectre pretty sure her comment is a nothing burger. probably alluding to the whole "light a match to see where the exit in the cave is" in movies. has nothing to do with the cave. only the multiple exits of a cave or lack thereof.

[@marthawolfsen5809]

Caves -- pretty obviously-- have much more consistent temperatures than the outer air. They also-- obviously-- don't have sunshine warming them. As the sun rises and the air warms, the colder, heavier air in the cave flows outside. (On cold winter days and nights, the air may flow in.)

[@alanthompson8515]

@@marthawolfsen5809 Agreed. My (misspent?) youth involved a lot of caving, including several cave digs where we hoped to discover new passages. A draught of air was the #1 factor in choosing where to dig. In fact, by the time I got involved, (1960s) all the draughts in the local caves (Mendip Hills, UK) had been followed. We had to use other indications, like type of fill, overall size of passage or possible connection to known passages. Or we waited until something like the August 1968 flood did a load of excavation for us. In our early days, we realised that the more senior cavers were always looking for muscle power on their digging trips. We often volunteered since this was a good way to get known and (at the very least) well lubricated in the pub afterwards. (Scrumpy was 1 shilling a pint). My group did dig through to a new series in one of the major caves and a surface dig opened up a truly horrible little cave that flooded to the roof whenever there was a cloud in the sky (or so it seemed). Happy Days.

[@MossyMozart]

@@WarAndFame - Not only wind, but the accompanying whistling and / or howling. Of course I have not been in every cave, so cannot say if there is wind rushing through them all.

[@ferociousfeind8538]

"In water, chimps will drown" sums it up pretty nicely, I would think.

[@tea_time_t]

I nearly died of laughter when he said there are no fossils of primates. What a walnut.

[@whattalks]

It was a terrible goof up, but to be fair he probably meant chimps and gorillas which have practically no fossil evidence of ancestors. GGs diatribe listing all her "pithecuses" forgot to mention that most of these genera have been classified on the basis of a few teeth. Genera, note. The vanity of palaeoanthropologists clearly often overrides their objectivity.

[@NathanTarantlawriter]

@@whattalks "Vanity of paleo..." hooo boy.

[@joschafinger126]

I found the original version of the aquatic ape hypothesis kind of interesting: savannah-derived apes taking some key steps in the human direction by settling on beaches and along rivers, exploiting aquatic resources in a way not otherwise seen in primates, leading to conditions favourable to things such as improved breath control, to increased access to some fatty acids that could have helped brain growth along, ... That kind of stuff. That hypothesis lost traction about, what? 30 years ago? Something like that, isn't it? Still, increased ecological dominance would lead to increased access to high-value territories such as river estuaries where getting water to drink and drinking animals to hunt by surprise might be way easier, plus all those fish and shellfish. But that guy has made up what's basically a caricature of the original hypothesis, explaining slightly surprising facts about our species by outrageous claims without evidence instead of testable predictions and ignoring all the evidence we've got.

[@whattalks]

You are right. The woo-merchant, Robert Sepehr spins a very dodgy line with regard to waterside hypotheses of human evolution (as I believe they should be labelled) which is exactly why GG focuses almost exclusively on his video. Classic straw man: pick the weakest, dodgiest, points and pretend that is all there is. This video starts out with crystal clear intention to attack him personally, which might be righteous but should not inspire confidence in what follows. It's the message that should be criticised not the messenger and it's noteworthy that on Elaine Morgan's brilliant (41 years) work GG could only say "I think she was wrong." Perhaps, a video on that would have been more interesting... but only if someone was allowed to answer back and give the case from the other side. There are at least a couple of dozen academics who are open to waterside hypotheses of human evolution but you'd never get that idea from this video. See www.whattalks.com and www.riverapes.com.

[@tarfielarchelone2674]

@@whattalks oh boy lol

[@whattalks5937]

@@tarfielarchelone2674 So, that's it? No intelligent response, Just "oh boy" and a laugh? These aquaskeptics are so sure they're right but can never quite tell you why.

[@Raptorworld22]

@@whattalks5937 lol

[@Abrxs365]

@Algis Kuliukas @@Raptorworld22 I love it how anyone can discredit anything with a lol or a 🤣 emoji it's pretty great! 🤣🤣🤣

[@r-pupz7032]

I love how you don't just debunk bad science, you go out of your way to explain the reasoning and teach us something cool while making a broader point about how science works. Thanks Erika :D

[@PsychoSpecter]

Agreed. It's always better to go long form and saturate the video with potentially TMI than to leave it at a simple reaction. I prefer channels like this/Prof Dave/Aron Ra over one like SciManDan for instance because I can't be satisfied with a simple "oh dear how silly...moving on". It's always better to have more information than you know what to do with.

[@thedave1771]

I felt like SciManDan started out better, although maybe they was just perception? But I agree, I’d rather learn something, mocking of morons is an added bonus but not the reason I’m here.

[@whattalks]

Nonsense. This is a very weak counter argument, based on ad hominem. It cherry picks the worst straw man points from the worst (most woo-ful) video. Full of distortions and misrepresentations.

[@thedave1771]

@@whattalks ad hominem? You might want to look up what that is before using it.

[@whattalks]

@@thedave1771 Her talks starts with a personal attack on Robert Sepehr. It's the most blatant ad hominem based video I've ever seen on this subject. Par for the course. In 60 years, the #1 response is "ignore it. It'll just go away". #2 is ad hominem. #3 is exaggerate/distort. GG does #2 and #3 and boasts that her academic institution does #1. This is not a scientific response.

[@brae9119]

Are you telling me that “Caveman” isn’t meant to be taken literally. I was under the impression that monkeys went in the cave, lived there for millions of years, and emerged a fully functional human being.

[@catpoke9557]

Humans did inhabit caves, just not these deep, lightless, underwater caves he's talking about.

[@joshuahadams]

Iirc that basically derived from most well-preserved Palaeolithic sites are in caves, since they kept the march of time at bay. Folks living in tents and sod houses left a lot less easily visible evidence, which takes more time and effort to excavate.

[@MagicalHatStudios]

"Chronically incorrect goon" damn Erica, you murdered him.

[@optimus_rhymes6955]

I don’t know why, but that opening chokes me up, every time I see it. It’s just good art. And the full length video you put out a while back brought me to tears. Thanks for making me cry.

[@ReedBetweenTheLines]

The Aquatic Ape hypothesis was the academic catalyst that taught me about how predictive power is the cornerstone of science. On the surface it seems plausible and can explain some human features, but it ultimately fails to make any testable novel predictions. Looking forward to this.

[@kevinstewart1878]

I still like this hypothesis. But I have to remain open to the evidence. So, also looking forward to this

[@jonneexplorer]

@@kevinstewart1878 I hope you know better now. I do wonder how someone who is open for evidence would like a " hypothesis" entirely devoid of it though...

[@kevinstewart1878]

@@jonneexplorer Honestly, I was not entirely satisfied with this. What was presented was two almost entirely different hypothesis with the same name. Yes, clearly the Robert Sepehr (if I'm spelling that right) hypothesis was way out in left field. I think to the point that it didn't even belong in the same conversation as Elaine Morgan's hypothesis. I don't know that it was even fair to Elaine Morgan to give this clearly absurd guy's bad science 75% of the focus as if that represents the hypothesis. It's as if the Robert Sepehr debacle of a hypothesis is just a distraction. It doesn't in anyway address the plausibility of Elaine Morgan's argument. As far as addressing Elaine Morgan, yes we get a plausible argument for how she could very likely be wrong. But, I don't feel that the evidence presented here is sufficient to show Elaine Morgan's argument as, "silly". Still this was entertaining, and educational.

[@jonneexplorer]

@@kevinstewart1878 it takes more than plausibility to make for evidence, and I do not even see the plausibility here. I am sorry but there is no evidence for this hypothesis, and it should be rejected till there's any indication of its validity.

[@kevinstewart1878]

@@jonneexplorer on the contrary. The plausibility of a suggestion is evidence. It might not be strong evidence, or even very good evidence. And if a counter argument provides a better explanation for sure, that counter argument should be held to a higher weight than the original argument. But this is where we get the difference between hypothesis, and fact. Now, it's possible falsify, or provide a strong enough counter argument to render part of a hypothesis invalid while still having other parts of a hypothesis be potentially valid. Here I would refer to the hypothesis from Elaine Morgan. To listen to her explanation, it sounds as if she's describing large groups of hominids wading around pools of water in the fashion of hippos. To that I would say the hypothesis is stretching logic. But there's a wide range of possibility between that, and all hominids not being willing to dip a toe. Yes, there's good reason to postulate that early hominids stood up straight, lost thickness of body hair, exchanged dense power muscle fibers for lighter endurance muscle fiber because it helped with running long distance, seeing over grass lands, etc. There's good arguments for these hypotheses. But the fact is these changes also have benefits for swimming, and wading. We know the content of Africa has had frequent fluctuations of wet, and dry periods, at times having very large lake, and river systems. During these periods the capacity for swimming would be very helpful, and to that I still see the possibility that it influenced our development. While I'm sure people who actually study these eras of human development may have their reasons why they haven't explored these possibilities, I don't think such reasoning was explained here. So to that, I'm not satisfied that the aquatic ape hypothesis in it's honest form has been entirely debunked. I think writing it off in its entirety could be discarding opportunity in understanding the nuances of our development

[@georgethompson1460]

Just FYI the Antikithera mechanism video is actually credible, it was a hellenistic device used to calculate star positions. Was very complex for it's time and genuinly surprised archeologists.

[@harrietharlow9929]

Exactly. But those who want to tie the Antikythera Mechanism to aliens or Atlantis, like Sepehr are on the completely on the wrong track. The ancient Greeks were more advanced technologically than many give them credit for. Even the Romans had primitive steam engines.

[@Aliyah_666]

​@@harrietharlow9929They had bearings, real metal bearings back then. The Romans used them on some of their work. Pretty fascinating stuff I think Caligula was the emperor then. He if I recall had two huge ships commissioned and built for him.

[@NathanTarantlawriter]

@@Aliyah_666 Real metal bearings are not hard to make. Making durable perfect metal bearings that can be used in high tech machinery, that takes a little more. You can make a bearing in your spare time if you have simple blacksmithing skills plus time.

[@Aliyah_666]

@@NathanTarantlawriter I'm just saying it's pretty impressive actually. That they had the thought processes and manufacturing processes figured out so well. They were used on a rotating statue on a ship. This same ship had a pump to bilge out water and also to run baths and what not. The Romans despite all the lead were easily some of the most advanced ancient civilizations. I was just saying it's really cool they had such advanced forward thinking technology.

[@noone3216]

And not just that, the specificity of the gears.. some of them have ridiculous numbers of teeth, like 417.5 teeth on just 1 specific cog sorta thing Edit: don't quote me on that number. Just a random number I plucked out as a simile

[@TheMbmdcrew]

I remember one of my friends from school had heard about the Aquatic Ape Hypothesis and used this, and the mockumentary _Mermaids: The Body Found_ (which she was convinced was 100% real), to make a PowerPoint about how mermaids are totally real. And she presented this in front of the whole class.

[@PhDTony_original]

I had heard of the aquatic ape hypothesis but it always struck me as having a host of problems. Most significantly, humans are extremely susceptible to heat-loss compared to aquatic mammals.

[@ravenknight4876]

Humans are in fact uniquely ill suited to living under water.

[@jgreen2015]

I mean technically the aquatic ape theory does address that by pointing to humans storing fat under their skin like whales, dolphins, and seals, where land mammals store fat around their organs

[@ravenknight4876]

@@jgreen2015 Land mammals also store fat under their skin though, primates in particular do that too. Humans simply just store more fat there because the lack of hair means we need different means of thermoregulation.

[@PhDTony_original]

@@jgreen2015 I mean technically, the aquatic ape theory ignores the fact that people can die of hypothermia from standing in cold water for too long. Which is something whales and seals notably do NOT do with the same frequency.

[@jgreen2015]

@@ravenknight4876 all true. Along with the fact that having a large amount of 'blubber' (it's not blubber. Blubber is also actually v different to fat) is actually unhealthy for humans but not for aquatic mammals. The point I was making is that they do address that. Or atleast attempt to. If I were to use a baseball analogy - the base is covered. Just not well. To say that the base isnt being covered is inaccurate.

[@Danileith123]

I remember reading about this hypothosis a few decades ago in 'The Naked Ape'. I thought it had been mostly discredited - also a few decades ago.

[@justrachel4496]

I personally think it's beautiful that humans get spiritual/emotional enrichment from the same things we also need to physically survive. Nothing wrong with living near water both for hydration and because it makes you feel all warm and fuzzy inside. Both can be important and true simultaneously.

[@dethspud]

25:44 "Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana"

[@idahogie]

"Occam's spork." Instant classic.

[@wrekced]

Gutsick Gibbon, the "Antikythera mechanism" is just a mechanical calendar/date calculator that was found in the wreck of an ancient Greek ship near the island of Antikythera. The woo peddlers have all kinds of weird ideas about the mechanism because it is very technically advanced in its construction. So of course, that means either Atlantis, aliens, or both...

[@jamesdownard1510]

Yep, the nifty machine gets channeled by ancient astronaut groupies and some creationists hyping up the Advanced Ancient Bible folk who built the Ark.

[@Shade_Dragon]

Aliens from Atlantis!

[@AlbertaGeek]

@@Shade_Dragon Or Atlanteans from SPAAAAAAAACE!

[@julietfischer5056]

@@Shade_Dragon- Aryan Aliens from Atlantis!

[@weareallbornmad410]

That video was from the Science Festival, though, which if memory serves is well-founded source. A bit pop-sciency, because it focuses on popularising to random lay people, but still. No Space Atlantians for them, I think.

[@punksci6879]

You've convinced me I'm dropping the aquatic ape theory and adopting the mole ape theory. edit: After watching the video about his followers brigading I want to be clear this is a joke.

[@Freddy_4_Fingers]

I came for the snark, I stayed for the science! 🤘😆

[@bohemianrhaposteve6402]

I appreciate the work you're putting out there. I only meant to comment that I laughed pretty hard during this and another video that I had recently watched... The classes taught by lecturers were so much more entertaining than graduate classes taught by tenured faculty droning about their own esoteric studies.The lecturers teaching undergrad classes were enthusiastic, engaging, and funny.

[@jddes]

I knew it was coming but "MAMMALIAN DIVE REFLEX" killed me. Another great one!

[@caspasesumo]

The "special pleading" is strong in this one. I didn't really have time to watch your whole video - but your humor kept me riveted, educated, and entertained right to the end.

[@pompe221]

This is one show I'm especially eager for, ever since that wretched mockumentary aired on Animal Planet years ago (Mermaids: The Body Found, for anyone who doesn't remember it.)

[@iseriver3982]

I genuinely had friends who believed the mermaids, even though the program said it was a fiction, even though its clearly cgi. One friend said he'd only stop believing in mermaids when there was evidence showing they weren't real. Don't let the radio telescopes fool you, humans are a dumb species 😂

[@tylerwest719]

What… you mean mermaids aren’t real? Bummer

[@UltrEgoVegeta]

As bad as the fake megg doc

[@Elitekross]

That reminds me of the dragon one too

[@daxhopkins7312]

As a teenager, I temporarily believed that 'documentary' when it was included on a list with actual documentaries. The indications that its fake were not obvious enough to prevent it from being easily passed off as real, especially to the young or vulnerable. In a world where flerfs and Q-anon are a thing, and a literal president of the USA spouts obvious BS about important subjects like hurricanes and COVID, there needs to be a mechanism for forcing such videos to clearly show their mocking intent(/bs content).

[@TGabes_Gaming]

Oh my god the sequence with the swimming gorilla cracked me UP

[@Futt.Buckerson]

"That it's the ocean flowing in our veins / That it's the salt that's in our tears"

[@Kikunosuke777]

Thank you for making this. saw this mockumentary awhile ago and the pain of not having someone to debunk it there and then is immense.

[@justme0910]

Hyped for this! I remember hearing about the Aquatic Ape hypothesis when I was a teenager and finding it really compelling ... At first. I was so disappointed when I realized that even I, a 14-year-old, could tell that none of the arguments for it held any water (pun intended).

[@ladyselenafelicitywhite1596]

I remember reading about that theory decades ago.

[@williamchamberlain2263]

As in 'aquatic ape' being the ape that would habitually swim sometimes rather than avoiding deep water at all costs as with most primates.

[@skybluskyblueify]

I wonder if most of the fanboys for this hypothesis were just like in age when they encountered it but never gave it up and simply want to be a Maverick contrarian?

[@validfate6502]

@@williamchamberlain2263 Or waded a lot, which was what I heard in 85. But I was quickly annoyed that the hypothesis came with an argument for why there are no bones. So evidence will have to wait for time travel.

[@whattalks]

@@skybluskyblueify That's a very patronizing thing to write. I first heard about the idea when I was 40. I was so impressed with Elaine Morgan's work I decided to return to academia to find out why the idea was ignored or sneered at. I did a MSc at UCL under Lesley Aiello and got a distinction and a PhD at UWA under Charles Oxnard. I learned that there are no good reasons for this ignorant non-response, only very bad ones.

[@fmdj]

I really like that intro a huge lot! Both the music and the pretty animations.

[@CatholicSatan]

Gosh, I remember my father being impressed with this hypothesis decades ago. And I remember too, the neat demolition by someone who said, "No water necessary. All you have to do is watch the men in a bar when an attractive woman walks in. They all straighten up..."

[@Arosukir6]

When Erika cuts back to this dude's video, I keep thinking we've cut to a Liberty Mutual commercial!

[@petertubb5420]

The twat means HYDRODYNAMIC. Otters, beavers, platypi and seals all have fur and they are all relatively hydrodynamic. I agree with the GG.

[@thegoldenthyroidgland5659]

Thanks for clearing up that "humans share 60% DNA with bananas" thing. I actually believed it because a lecturer from my university said it.

[@heiyuall]

I’ll never understand people who are fine with being evolved from early hominids, but freak out over the idea of being from the same early hominids as Africans.

[@theangryholmesian4556]

It's racism. Plain and simple.

[@mrnickmoodie]

'chronically incorrect goon' made my day :-D

[@randolphphillips3104]

This guy has never been in a cave, "miles below the surface" or otherwise. (BTW, "miles below" brings up questions of pressure.)

[@Where_is_Waldo]

20:08 You know what explains this best? Clothing. If it's cold, you have to cover your skin (not much skin exposed to collect sunlight for vitamin D). If it's hot, you have to avoid insulation, exposing your skin to the sun.

[@TheMilkMan8008]

I literally just stumbled across this guy like last week. Scarry how many followers he has.

[@TheMilkMan8008]

@@whattalks gtfo of here and take your psudo science with you.

[@petersmythe6462]

Hairlessness: 1. Makes a lot of sense to alter the boundary layer around sweaty skin and encourage evaporation. 2. Means you're less likely to die in a fire, which matters if you're keeping those around. 3. Just makes sense given fire and clothing are perfectly good ways to keep warm. 4. Reduces the risk for many types of parasites.

[@whattalks]

1. So why did women and children lose *most* body hair? 2. Clutching at straws. 3. Clothing came much later than body hair loss. 4. But increases risk of abrasion and other maladies.

[@hannajung7512]

Is it just me or is this dude really sounding extremly insecure about the idea that we all have several black people in our ancestry?

[@laurakp1179]

That’s exactly what he is saying. He is a Neo Nazi. You should do a deep dive into Robert Sepehr. It’s all Nazi propaganda.

[@fruitylerlups530]

thats literally the foundation of his entire anthropology, he dislikes the idea that we are one species lol.

[@edgarsnake2857]

GG: Your breakdown of this complex issue is brilliant and informative, as always. But, I also watch your videos for your abrupt, laugh-out-loud funny takedowns of whichever unfortunate charlatan has attracted your gaze.

[@whattalks]

Ad hominem attacks are low and not at all brilliant. Misrepresentations are not good to see either. This is the usual old straw man argument attacking the dodgiest video out there, and not, note the excellent work of Elaine Morgan, Alister Hardy, Desmond Morris, David Attenborough and dozens of other academics who are very open to these ideas.

[@thegameranch5935]

@@whattalks when did she ad homnin?

[@whattalks5937]

@@thegameranch5935 What? She started with a diatribe against Sepher (who I am not a fan of by the way) and then slurred Westenhöfer (not difficult as he was a Nazi). Attack the arguments, please, not the proponents. Darwin was a mysoginist and racist - but so what?

[@thumper8684]

@@thegameranch5935 Seriously, you need to ask?

[@thegameranch5935]

@@whattalks5937 “ad ho·mi·nem /ˌad ˈhämənəm/ adjective (of an argument or reaction) directed against a person rather than the position they are maintaining.” Yes she insulted him, but she also gave good evidence and arguments, thats not ad hominem.

[@kerrysanders6668]

I actually find the aquatic ape philosophy fascinating precisely because it is silly. I don't think it's true, I just think it's fun to think about.

[@Scarecrow_Crane]

Same. Honestly, I’d love to see a speculative evolution project that tries to see what humans (or a fictional primate species) would have been like if we evolved from a much more recent water dwelling ancestor.

[@jbear3478]

A lot of this would be great for fantasy fiction!!!

[@MichaelButchin]

I remember reading a book about the Aquatic Ape Hypothesis, and a lot of what I'd heard up to that point sounded like a series of traits exapted for humans to make a living at the water's edge. I thought there might be some merit to the idea. A blubber-like layer of fat, and diving reflex, structure of the nose, and all of that stuff. HOWEVER, in the opening chapter, he conjectures that dinosaurs learned to walk upright in the same way that basilisks can run at high speed on their hind legs across water. Now, knowing that what makes a non-avian dinosaur a dinosaur is a very specific adaptation that allowed these archosaurs to draw their limbs directly beneath their bodies-- a perforated acetabular crest, I realized that the author was full of shit. If they couldn't get basic paleontology right, of what value would their paleoanthropology be? I put the book down and never touched it again.

[@Brunnen_Gee]

Ha! I almost lost it at Occam's Spork! There is an opposite to Occam's Razor, Occam's Broom. But Spork is a LOT more fun!

[@kamion53]

I think the Spork is a jipe in the direction of Ken Hovind, who tried to ridicule evolution with his evolution from knife to fork claiming the spork was a transition species. Intended as humor, but Hovind has as much sense for humor as a turd left in a chamberpot for a week. It too think we should keep Occam's Spork and sent the Broom back to Hogwarts.

[@adashofbitter]

I remember hearing about the aquatic ape hypothesis when I was doing my undergrad majoring in palaeontology… I didn’t pay much attention to it but thought it sounded interesting - my very vague understanding of it was just that it hypothesises that somewhere in our ancestry is a species that spent much of its time in water, and that this accounts for some strange adaptations we have like our skin going wrinkly in water, etc. I had no idea it was this nuts.

[@lowpolyzoe]

The editing in this video made me laugh a lot thank you lol

[@victorvelie3980]

I also recently came across this guy, and I was actually hoping you'd cover him haha, thanks!

[@s1nd3rr0z3]

I googled Robert Sepehr and the first result I noticed is that he wrote a book on the "occult secrets of vril" and do not need any more explanation on how he's a bad guy.

[@hunni2968]

I have an unhinged family member who exposed me to many conspiracies before I was old enough to know better this being one of them so I actually appreciate this very thorough debunk.

[@ChaosKeep]

Sorry I know I’m only a minute or to in… but didn’t they hypothesis originate in the 60’s by Alister Hardy and Elaine Morgan? Not the pseudoscience gunk of Gaia?

[@randolphphillips3104]

Couple of things. Hair on your head redirects sweat away from the face, and eyebrows keep sweat out of your eyes. Ask any bald guy. When I shave my head, I have to deal with the sweat, and the glasses stick out just far enough to get little rivers of sweat. Don't know if this is why they developed, but it is a function now. Second, as to bipedalism. I was under the impression that we are the only primates that can throw overhand (though I may be wrong). Seems that those that could throw hardest and most accurately would have an advantage hunting and defending. Look at folks that make a living throwing fast and accurately. Like American Football quarterbacks. When commentators discuss the throw, they talk about things like "he didn't plant his feet". Or baseball pitchers. That 90 mile an hour throw through a 2 foot square involves the entire body, not just the arm. I just figured bipedalism developed as a response to "best leverage"="better able to provide and protect". Just my opinion.

[@Lechteron]

How about this aquatic ape theory? After the aboleths destroyed Azlant during Earthfall they took some survivors, enslaved them, and transformed them into aquatic humans... the Azarketi.

[@WukongTheMonkeyKing]

Cayden Caylian seen nearby pretending to take notes.

[@AnnoyingNewslettersPage6]

You and I were on the same page when it came to The Descent. When I saw it in theaters as part of the 12 hours of Terror Halloween movie marathon at the Capitol Theater in Cleveland, during the intermission, I heard one woman say to another, those women clearly have never worked in the restaurant industry; otherwise she would have just said, ”behind,” and avoided taking a climbing ax to the throat.

[@newclarence]

I saw Elaine Morgan on television years ago right after her book came out. A lovely idea without a shred of evidence. My "favorite" argument in favor was when she said that women have long hair so that their babies can hang on to it while floating around her. What a cure picture. Steven J. Gould and many others completely destroyed her idea but it seems like it pops up every now and then and makes somebody else a few bucks.

[@MrCmon113]

She actually said that?!

[@GenesisTheKitty]

Did she know men can also grow long hair or

[@newclarence]

Exactly. That's why I said it was my favorite. Totally goofy.@@GenesisTheKitty

[@mstie3252]

Rewatching, and almost spit out my coffee when you said, "Occam's spork". We need an Occam's Spork graphic.

[@Mughicoeurl]

I saw a show about it and it said something that still rings true. Humans now are semi aquatic compared to apes. It's not a matter of did they go through a semi aquatic phase but when they differentiated from apes and became more semi aquatic as they are now.

[@MrCmon113]

Humans don't instinctively swim and the vast majority of humans in history never learned to swim. That large parts of the population swim occasionally is a modern western phenomenon.

[@MadJester8183]

I'm commenting because occam's spork gave me a chuckle. Good one! 😁

[@dethspud]

Think I heard about this in Desmond Morris's books way back in the day. At the time it seemed a parsimonious way to explain human hairlessness but I understand it is largely disavowed as pseudoscience these days. Should be a good vid. Looking forward to this.

[@kamion53]

Desmond Morris; are his idea's still valid? Or did they sink into obscurity?

[@zray2937]

Care has to be taken between an hypothesis that just happened to be wrong and psudoscience.

[@whattalks]

@@zray2937 ... and pseudosceptics who can't discriminate between ideas that plausible but require intelligence to understand, and some of the most stupid ideas ever conceived. Waterside hypotheses of human evolution are entirely plausible and evidence-based unlike Sepehr's woo, mermaids, big foot, aliens from space and intelligent design.

[@zray2937]

@@whattalks Well, Sepehr is a charlatan or an idiot, I don't think anyone here will disagree with that.

[@richardbradley1532]

I love the title so will just have to watch.

[@IanSlothieRolfe]

If humans (and other primates) have any special abilities with regard to swimming, and agility in water, it can be most simply explained that rivers, seas and oceans are excellent sources for food, and any animal that can (for example) swim, hold their breath, and hunt underwater is going to have a huge evolutionary advantage. As to the folk lore of ancient peoples "coming out of the ground" - that might well be the conclusion come to by people discovering human remains in caves (i.e. cavemen!) and stories made up to explain them.

[@russellmillar7132]

What about otters and beavers? Why didn't they lose their hair? Inquiring marine mammals wanna know.

[@jondreauxlaing]

I know I'm preaching to the choir here, but if we're so well adapted for an aquatic life... why the hell are we such bad swimmers?! I can jog faster and further than most humans could possibly swim, and I'm not even in great shape. We're clearly very well adapted for terrestrial locomotion. It's just weird to me that these people go so far to try and push this hypothesis, and don't even try to answer that question. Our body hair makes us more aquadynamic? Okay, but the rest of our bodies are ridiculous in the water. That's why seeing people who are really good at swimming is so impressive. Huge chunks of the population can't swim at all, and for those that can, the grand majority aren't very good at it. Blows my mind they didn't even try to address that. Seems like a pretty obvious question they'd need to tackle to push their hypothesis.

[@pansepot1490]

Bad swimmers is an understatement. Most people who haven’t learned how to swim just drown when they find themselves in high water. On the other hand there’s plenty of land animals from dogs to cows to elephants that know instinctively how to swim.

[@garethbaus5471]

Plus prolonged exposure to water damages our skin, very very few aquatic or semi aquatic animals are likely to be hurt by touching water for too long.

[@JanetStarChild]

"Aquatic ape" is a bit of a misnomer, and is more accurately replaced with 'waterside ape'. The lifestyle of early proto-humans wouldn't be much different than simple civilizations living on the coasts. It makes rational sense that the beach would be humanity's preferred habitat; and I shouldn't even have to explain this to fellow humans. I recommend looking up videos on the long-tailed macaques for a glimpse of what primate life on the waterside looks like.

[@marieblack8118]

Doesn't anyone think that if they had spent a lot of time in water from birth, they might have thought nothing of swimming? We are raised on land now. Having the ability to learn something given the right environment is not the same as being able to do that same thing without any training. Many of us fail to learn things as adults that we might have done at a younger age. I think we also forget that we are talking about "having an aquatic ancestor", not "being aquatic now". The hypothesis is that we went into the water for a time, then we came back out, and some of those adaptations would have faded because they are no longer relied upon. For example, we have muscles to flex our nostrils, so perhaps at one time we could close them fully like seals, or perhaps we never quite acquired the full ability to do that before we left the water? Some people seem tempted to believe that every feature of every animal, including us, has finished evolving - but if the theory of evolution is correct, then some, if not most, must surely be in transition towards a useful feature, or away from something that is no longer useful. We don't know how much of the potential adaptations we could have already lost, so we can't hold modern humans up as being the exact same as the proposed aquatic ape. So the fact that you or your mates are not good at swimming today isn't a good reason to say it couldn't have been so at one time.

[@marieblack8118]

I can't run for toffee, and I can't catch anything with a spear. Does that mean the savannah hypothesis is wrong too?

[@Gzussss]

I really appreciated the over edited mammalian dive reflex bit. Thanks for that!

[@MaryAnnNytowl]

At about 33:00, you talk about a foraging theory that seems to be the one preferred right now. Interestingly enough, I ran across that very idea waaaaaaaaay back - in the mid-1980s, IIRC - in a sci-fi book, no less! 😄 Star Trek, to be specific. _~giggles~_ Once again, it seems sci-fi leads the way!

[@MissMCwuffles]

Lol “chronically incorrect goon” is a phrase I need to adopt into my vocabulary

[@trolleyfan]

Wow! Humans tend to settle around water sources! I'm shocked, Cotton. Another problem - no glowing mushrooms are going to supply you with Vitamin D, even if you're whiter than a sheet of paper.

[@CraftyVegan]

Fun fact: The only mushrooms that have a reliable and helpful amount of vitamin D in them are the ones that are exposed to sunlight… which, hilariously, is also how most humans get their vitamin D. If you have access to wild, sun exposed mushrooms you’ll definitely have access to sunshine for your skin 👍

[@LoveTrueMusic1]

13:00 uhhh idk about you but I frequently get water up my nose when swimming. I'd always hold my nose closed when jumping into the pool as a kid.

[@_equinox1689]

Water doesn't flow up my nose at all. It isn't normal, and idk why

[@shocknawe]

We are basically one of the few mammals which do NOT naturally know how to swim, and he opens his vid on how cosy water is.

[@MrCmon113]

That's the first thing that came to my mind when hearing about this. And the vast majority of people in history never learned to swim either. And the handful of societies that do swim as part of their lifestyle aren't particularly good at it compared to other mammals adapted to the water, like otters.

[@aaronellinger2662]

I would think that human s used to be very competent at swimming, climbing trees, traveling barefoot long distances, carrying additional weight for long periods of time, hearing, etc. There are records of feral children that had extraordinary physical abilities. These feral children also had difficulties in changing their learned habits to begin walking upright, etc.

[@AFRoSHEENT3ARCMICHAEL69]

What are you talking about? We float when we have air in the lungs. Your instinct is to paddle just like dogs do.

[@HYDROCARBON_XD]

Mammals don’t know how to swim,it’s just that when I water their quadrupedal gait helps them stay afloatc

[@kokosagina]

Bruh babies straight out of the womb know how to keep themselves afloat

[@kitsunekierein7253]

After you said, "it's like some sort of weird Occam's razor. An Occam's spork, if you will" an advertisement for some action movie played. I legit thought you had made a parody of it until I looked up to see the skip ad. Somebody please get on that! 😂

[@broonfondlemajik1798]

A hypothesis proposed to me why we developed upright walking was directly linked to increased success in fertility

[@al4nmcintyre]

Thank you for these in-depth videos. They've made me aware I'm not skeptical enough to automatically question every single statement made by practitioners of woo (of any flavor). Twenty plus years after getting away from a cult and I'm still surprised at how many cherry-picked or poorly-sourced ideas these people can cram into 30 seconds of a video.

[@ChristopherSadlowski]

"Humans are 60% genetically similar to bananas!" Yeah, almost as if life on Earth all stems from a single common ancestor as the very first lifeform that came about more than 3 billion years ago! It's crazy, but it's true.

[@pencilpauli9442]

I eat a lot of bananas. I'm glad to hear we are not so closely related as I was worried about it being classed as cannibalism. 🤪

[@joshuapray]

@@pencilpauli9442 Bananabalism?

[@catpoke9557]

Exactly. It doesn't help that all the organisms he listed were eukaryotes. My guy thinks it's odd that we're closely related to other eukaryotes?? It'd be odd if we WEREN'T!

[@Karlswebb]

I love how he just gives up near the end and goes “well actually the scientists made up the entire primate fossil record. It’s all fraud, somehow”. Like sure okay, at that point what do you even say? We could list the reasons why that’s obviously not the case (let’s start with… why)?

[@hellomynamesninooo6017]

I've taken ap bio and they never actually fully explained the reason why there is a spectrum of skin colors, thanks for the info!

[@italucenaz]

Never heard of this channel before, but it was sugested for quite sometime and I don't regret watching it til the end, very cool content!

[@natgrant1364]

12:48 Yeah, I have syndactyly. Two toes on each of my feet are webbed. It doesn't exactly make me go screaming through water like oh say, a marine mammal would. Humans aren't freaking marine mammals and neither were our ancestors. What a goofy idea.

[@annepoitrineau5650]

One remark: all we know about ancient humans is that they had very neat hairstyles. We see it on statues, and on many heads still in situ: neat shells caps etc. I would love to see content showing exactly that fact!

[@pong9000]

I suspect that's connected to us "losing our hair" - for we meanwhile gained rather abundant hair where it serves _social_ grooming even better than a hairy backside or hairy elbow. And groom we did. I'm not dismissing the sweat hypothesis, but for high-quality "my face is up here" social grooming the body hair was not helping.

[@drewg4797]

Please don't take this creepy like. It is meant in the sincerest manner. I could listen to you read the phone book. Thank you for sharing the knowledge. It's great to learn new things or brush up on things slightly forgotten.

[@ralph17p]

Occam's Spork made me chuckle. I think that's my new favorite Gusick Gibbon jibe.

[@brianmulholland2467]

While I appreciate the refutation of the aquatic ape hypothesis, using the version produced by the crazy man who thinks we evolved in undersea caves felt like unnecessary dunking.

[@PuckLokin]

As a long standing spork user I'm 100% adopting the term "Occam's Spork", with credit ofc

[@breakaleg10]

I remember when I first heard about the Aquatic Ape hypothesis, and while I was pretty young at the time with no academic experience I got this thought in my head that our noses aren't built for water. Not even those with flat noses. We aren't streamlined either. We are much better swimmers than most other apes, of course, but still poorly adapted to the wet element. In fact, I believe our slender build comes from the opposite, we are more mountainous apes. That seems more plausible to me.

[@stefanlaskowski6660]

I have read that humans are in fact the only Great Ape species that can swim, as the musculature of our cousins is so much denser as to preclude their floating in water.

[@JensNyborg]

@@stefanlaskowski6660 Fun fact: Some Asian Homo erectus have denser bone. An similar adaption is seen in marine mammals; this enables them to dive easier. We do find remains of seafood at some H. erectus sites. This doesn't really require an aquatic ancestor in the deep past; just says that *some* H. erectus *may* have spent some of their time diving.

[@charles2521]

There is a species of baboon that lives in the mountains, they are quadrupeds and very hairy (as it is very cold in the mountains)

[@AethochroicActias]

I'm just picturing a bunch of proto-humans sitting around a cold seep, luncheoning on marine snow.

[@Ratciclefan]

Honestly you gotta love how fringe conspiracy theorists seem to think the only thing they need to "prove" their theory is pretending it's plausible

[@Reyairia]

omg! I requested this video a while ago. glad to see youre addressing it!

[@dethspud]

...hope this went swimmingly... Nice. ^_^ Well... that was a very gentle and of course modern debunk of a woo peddler I hadn't encountered before.

[@angesystem23]

Unrelated to the video but your intro makes me happy

[@sylvainmichaud2262]

So, basically, the Aquatic Ape Hypothesis doesn't hold water !

[@jacksonfurlong3757]

Good one, Dad!

[@sylvainmichaud2262]

@@jacksonfurlong3757 I prefer to be a "Dad" making bad joke than a young guy making bad insults.

[@lucasharsh1396]

Please consider making a video about what evidence is currently available about late Miocene and early Pliocene environments where hominids evolved: jungle, forest, savanna, warming, cooling, drying or what?This could go well with the info you presented in you video on bipedalism. Love your content! Great work, please keep at it.

[@lordofthesoup4753]

Wow, I didn't expect to go into this video and receive worldbuilding advice, but everything around the 15-minute mark really helped me to figure out how in the heck I'm gonna make an underground race scientifically plausible. Thanks for the help and the hella entertaining video! EDIT: I also wanna point out that this guy calls mushrooms "plant-based", really shows how incompetent this schmutz is,,, lol

[@Casual_Crow]

My god, I just found you and that animation is just *chef’s Kiss*

[@FringeSpectre]

I remember when I first started wondering why we lost our fur. I started reading about the Aquatic Ape Hypothesis and thought it made a lot of sense on the surface. Then I learned it was lambasted across the scientific community and got a little sad. It's a fun idea.

[@guywithalltheanswers6942]

The science community also said that we should give covid vaccines to children in America, just because.

[@FringeSpectre]

@Guy With All the Answers ah yes, all scientists are apart of a secret cabal, hell bent on misleading us about our origins and giving us dangerous vaccines to... do what exactly? What's the end game of this little conspiracy of yours?

[@guywithalltheanswers6942]

@@FringeSpectre All scientists? What about the scientists that are shut down or publicly shamed or have their careers threatened for saying something out of the accepted hypothesis? Don't use that bs appeal to authority garbage on me. The establishment always has a vested interest in keeping itself in power and will use whatever weapons at it's disposal to do that. All justification must come from evidence and not appeals to consensus of some group which can easily be manipulated.

[@FringeSpectre]

@Guy With All the Answers I agree. The problem is neither of us are scientists and not every scientist who's ideas are rejected are rejected without reason. What I dont get is how lying about vaccines relates to maintaining power and all that. This is coming from someone who isn't vaxxed btw. I didn't get vaxxed because I feel like it was a rush job though, not because of some grand conspiracy.

[@FringeSpectre]

@Guy With All the Answers also you didn't even begin to answer my question. What's the end game of this secret cabal you're so afraid of?

[@cursedalien]

An aquatic ape is a cool idea for a spec evo prompt ngl