The Archons vs The Heavenly Principles [Genshin Impact Lore and Theory]

[@ChillwithAster]

i couldnt sleep so here's a video.

[@tnn-cj3vy]

did you overdose on caffeine again

[@ivanfanjkutic103]

Something to think about- ever since the golden slumber quest this bugs me- how common are wind gliders? Jet was confused if we fell with them into the sand(but we glided), we dont see them being used in other cutscenes, and the new yoimija quest the traveler had to hold her with his/glider

[@CarlosAnglada]

The video I was waiting for. 🎉

[@silverhawkscape2677]

You could jut chalk up Ei characterization as Polarizing to poor writing given how Botched the Inazuma Story Quest was.

[@yomogo311]

8:15 The seventh fatui harbinger marionette could be the bargaining chip because she resembles guizhong for some mysterious reason.

[@why-so-toxic_1413]

The more I think about it I think the reason why most of the archons don’t talk about Celestia is most likely something must have happened between them

[@thatonedonutlover]

I agree they are so hesitant to talk

[@yoinkerman8524]

zhongli mentioned a contract that does not allow him to talk about celestia, venti is secretive in general, ei probably prefers not to talk about it in relation with "eternity" and what happened to her sister. nahida never saw the cataclysm tho, hence her willingness to talk about the descenders and the irminsul.

[@yoinkerman8524]

since nahida is not one of the original seven, and was born after gained consciousness after the cataclysm had occurred, it is likely she did not interact with one of the "heavenly envoys" of celestia and did not personally witness the kind of destruction that had occurred, therefore sees celestia as less of a threat due to their inactivity. The rest of the archone know what celestia has or can do, hence their hesitation to talk about it.

[@riotangel4701]

Rule 1 of Celestia: You don't talk about Celestia.

[@champagnegascogne9755]

@@riotangel4701 Rule 2 of Celestia: It's all the Twins' fault.

[@ashleyandanime4815]

Little did we know. The hydro archon gave Celestia the biggest *beep you* out of all of them

[@xOrionNebula2708]

yea they fooled celestia

[@feelshowdy]

Considering the writing on the Barbatos statue that says "the gateway to Celestia" and Venti's ambiguous but close connections to the God of Time, I think he initially had the closest relationship to the divine compared to other archons, and thus carries the most guilt out of the Seven for what happened during the Cataclysm. Other archons became embittered towards Celestia because they were ordered to destroy Ka'enriah and their respective nations were ungulfed in calamity, but Venti wants to distance himself from being a pawn/gateway for the Celestial powers to keep their control over the land. Letting the anemo gnosis be 'stolen' was a first step to claiming his own freedom.

[@mitab1]

The cataclysm wasn't Celestia's fault, and if they weren't summoned to khaenri'ah then they'll have to war with monsters for who knows how long, their nations would be destroyed if it wasn't for Celestia ordering the archons to fight the core of the problem, also they weren't fighting against khaenri'ah, they were fighting along side khaenri'ah, khaenri'ah simply HAD to be nailed, because it was the only option

[@pissmasterslopking]

@@mitab1 Least Obvious Celestia Fed

[@yumemisstrawberryjam6759]

Maybe the reason why Ei's actions with the Fatui seem weird is because it was the Shogun puppet dealing with them at the time and Ei, while having some different opinions, still agreed with the puppet. Then by the time of her second story quest she decided to respect her change in opinions on how to deal with Inazuma?

[@GuyWithAnAmazingHat]

Shogun basically always calculates the outcome that would pose the least threat and have the least loss to Inazuma. There's some kind of agreement between Shogun and Fatui Harbingers, the Fatui were allowed to stay on diplomatic terms, but ultimately they crossed the line and Signora was executed. Shogun probably didn't just attack the Fatui in the first place because this would mean war against Snezhnaya, which would definitely be a worse outcome than the events that happened.

[@bookswithike3256]

@@GuyWithAnAmazingHat Signora wasn't executed because the Fatui crossed the line. She was executed because she lost a duel before the throne, and according to tradition, anyone who loses a duel before the throne is executed by the Musou no Hitotachi.

[@ChillwithAster]

This is probably the case, since at this time, the Raiden Shogun and Ei were morally in sync most of the time, so it's really hard to say where Ei starts and the Shogun ends because we didnt really get the see the *shogun* much during the AQ.

[@drysoup3017]

​@@bookswithike3256 In Russia, you execute the fuckin' throne. On a serious note, I wonder what's next for Raiden and her story.

[@chickensky1121]

Even if all of the Archons disagree with Celestia and wish to rebel against it, I still find it strange that they're so willing to assist the Fatui specifically. All of the 4 Archons we have directly interacted with all care greatly for their own nations - probably the reason why they're choosing to defy Celestia in the first place - and even if the Fatui as an organization simply wants to use the power of the Gnoses to rebel against Celestia, it is clear that plenty of the individual Harbingers don't care about that goal. Many of them are selfish and powerhungry, if not downright sadistic, and it feels like they're simply using their authority as a Harbinger to further their own agendas. The Fatui constantly harass and even murder the citizens of other nations for no other reason than to silence them, and many of the objectively evil things the Fatui do have nothing to do with Celestia at all, they just feel like attempts to make Snezhnaya and the Harbingers specifically more powerful. If I was an Archon, even if I hated Celestia with all of my heart and knew the Tsaritsa had a plan to bring them down, there's no way I'd work with her if she was letting her Harbingers outright murder my subjects for fun. It's just strange to me that none of them - especially Ei, who feels like the most hotheaded of them - have done anything to specifically protect their people from the Fatui. I hope that the Harbinger's relationships with each other start to decline as we travel through Fontaine and Natlan, and by the time we reach Snezhnaya, the country has turned into a full civil war where all of the Harbingers are fighting for dominance. This could set up the Traveler forming an alliance with the Tsaritsa, who's now forced to clean up the mess she made by allowing the Harbingers to grow so powerful and arrogant and lose sight of their goal. Once that problem has been taken care of, then the Traveler and the Tsaritsa (who now have at least a mutual respect for each other) can turn their attention to fighting Celestia.

[@randomguyblank1616]

we don't know the Tsaritsa's plan at this point, for all we know all the Archons realize that the only way to rebel against Celestia without being completely wiped out is to back the Tsaritsa. Besides, despite a lot of the harbingers being dubious characters we've only seen one, Scara, so far actually defy orders. Just cause someone is sus does not mean they are guilty. To me its a similar situation to Honkai's midpoint where the protagonist ask an objectively evil person's greatest soldier why they back said evil person. The girl basically responded "hey if you know any other solution then I'm all ears" since said evil person is actively trying to prevent the extinction of humanity. Its a situation with a bad option and a worse option.

[@chickensky1121]

@@randomguyblank1616 It just seems weird to me that they would let their nations be bullied by the Fatui for reasons that are COMPLETELY unrelated to the Tsaritsa's goals when put together they're probably way more powerful than the Fatui are. At the very least, they could make an effort to reach out to the Tsaritsa and tell her to discipline the Harbingers better so they aren't total dicks, but they're just SO complacent - and yet are also complacent with the Traveler (rightfully) whooping the Fatui's Russian asses, despite being close friends with them. I really want to understand that situation better.

[@opswhyyou7216]

@Chicken Sky maybe it is just difference in power levels. The first three harbingers are said to rival gods. Now, we don't know the caliber of these "gods" that they are said to rival. There are certainly some relatively weak gods, but to use gods as a measuring standard has to mean that to rival them is an incredible achievement. Wage war against Fatui may cause your nation more harm than good. So the others just play Tsaritsa's little game and see how it goes. But when a blonde ultra powerful alien who has no apparent affiliation suddenly shows up, kicks the Fatuis' ass, and solves all of the archon's problems, the archons are going to gratefuly accept this gift.

[@chickensky1121]

@@opswhyyou7216 If that is true, it would explain a lot. I just find it hard to believe that the Archons are equal to or weaker in strength than the Traveler (who held their own against Ei, but I don't think they necessarily defeated her), and even harder to believe that the Harbingers (who regularly get their asses whooped by Traveler) are on par with the Archons. I think the part about the Harbingers rivaling gods, if it isn't just straight-up false, might be based on the fact that the definition of 'god' is FRUSTRATINGLY vague in this game. I also don't think the Tsaritsa would just allow the Harbingers to become more powerful than her; the fact that they're hunting down the Gnoses at all feels like proof that they still feel obligated to obey her even though many of them (aside from Childe) don't seem to care all that much about her ideals.

[@icecream1372]

this honestly sounds about right.. like the harbingers are very corrupt themselves. but you said we have to clean up the mess, do you mean she is forced to face her own harbingers? it might be very diffucult to convince them. i am sure the tsar and the travler can come to a agreement though because they almost have the same goals against celestia

[@kyuriht]

About Venti, Remember he HAS the awareness of the Wind, in genshin the Wind can "talk" and "store information" and if kazuha can learn things just listening to the Wind Imagine what venti can know and do even in the 500 years of sleep he could have just been getting Infos (also considering he probably retains Memories of past, present and future and probably has some Power reguarding time itself i would not put It past him to know more than even some of the harbingers)

[@Faishgly]

It makes sense bc he was a literal spirit of the wind so a bunch of info would just [phone]iq his brain

[@esmelusina4313]

I don't think they are supporting the Tsaritsa necessarily, but that they are opposing Celestia. Abyss Order wants to restore the past. Celestia wants to stagnate the present. Fatui want to create a new future. I think Venti and Zhongli are _clearly_ aligned in supporting the will of Teyvat's inhabitants as the 4th Agenda (it's the 'Age of Humans' etc). They know that the Traveler is immune to memory manipulation, so their presence as a Witness is part of their plan. The Traveler waking up is around the time Venti wakes up. Zhong Li's feigned Death is when the Traveler arrives to Liyue. These events are not arbitrarily aligned. Those two are waiting for us because our role as Witness is critical to their own collusion. That they point us like a warhead at Inazuma afterwards, despite it being out of the way and difficult to get to, was practically sending us on a recruitment drive. So we have a 4th agenda; to give the fate of Teyvat to its inhabitants. This is basically what the entire Liyue and Inazuma arcs are all about. Sumeru and Mondstadt arcs definitely acknowledge the theme. Fatui, Abyss Order, and Will of Teyvat (tm) are all in opposition, in some way or another, to Celestia. The chess match is multi-dimensional, and giving of the Gnoses is a way to progress the game forward.

[@Zeke1460]

It feels like Celestia is an exploitative boss and the archons are just the 7 schmucks that Celestia conned into working for it. No wonder they want out. They all regret their actions in Khaenriah as well. At least the ones that were there. They probably want to make sure that kind of thing doesn’t happen again.

[@mitab1]

The reason the khaenri'ahn cataclysm happened was because of the khaenri'ahn sages opening a door to the abyss and letting abyss monsters run a mock in teyvat, if the archons don't want what happened in khaenri'ah to happen again, then they should make sure nobody opens a door to the abyss realm again

[@khaliquet1]

It’s kinda strange that the fatui now have 5 of the 7, and Celestia is QUIET. They’ve should’ve taken action after one of the oldest Gods lost his gnosis.

[@THExJMC]

I think it's highly probable that many of the gods who are believed to be active in Celestia are actually dead, eroded or gone. They aren't just quiet, they are silent. It's also odd that the Sustainer of Heavenly Principles would trap Aether and Lumine in Teyvat when they were literally just about to leave. It also occurs during or pre-cataclysm so it really makes you question what SoHP's intentions were with that move. There's gotta be some huge twist towards the end of the game. It really seems like the travelers were made to stay on Teyvat and then intentionally set on their journeys to experience the world. Perhaps Celestia is all actually good peoples, but they have to or want to leave for some reason (they are descenders after all) and would like Aether/Lumine to take over, but need them to build attachment to the world first.

[@SammiSkulz]

It’s not that strange if you think about it. The actual power isn’t in the gnosis. Yes it enhances it but it basically just connects them to celestia more. So as long as it’s not destroyed it wouldn’t matter much. The thing that would make them pay attention is Zhongli backing down as archon./

[@THExJMC]

Another possibility is that they are doing things and simply deleting people's recollection of them using Irminsul. There are very few who would be immune to it like the traveler, so it would be quite unlikely that we run into anyone who actually knows what Celestia is doing.

[@Blizandrio]

I can’t wait for the day we get to meet the Tsaritsa. The goddess of love that lost the love of/for her people, yet the other archons trust her is such an interesting storyline.

[@tobyharris4777]

I don't think she's lost her love, I think her love is causing her to hate, just like the god of Freedom is confined by his ideals of freedom, the god of eternity finds eternity in transience and things coming to an end/changing, and the god of contract laying down a contract to end all contracts. It's a running theme at this point

[@furinafurever]

@@tobyharris4777didnt the trailer say “the God of Love, with no love left for her people” or smth

[@tobyharris4777]

@@furinafurever Technically the trailer doesn't mention that she IS the god of love. It says 'She is a god with no love left for her people, nor do they have any left for her'. As for the point of no love left for 'her people' then she may still have love for some people, just not the populous.

[@furinafurever]

@@tobyharris4777 i agree with the last part, as the God of Love i refuse to believe she hates all of her citizens.

[@furinafurever]

@@tobyharris4777 and who else would “she” be except the Tsaritsa?

[@noahblackwood6288]

I don't remember where exactly I saw this, maybe a different lore video, maybe the wiki, but someone noted that so far it seems existing archon don't care for Celestia at best, and were actively hurt by it at worst. Nahida values knowledge over gnosis, Venti only has bad things to say about Celestia in the game and in the manga, Ei's most loved person was killed in the war Celestia started, and Zhongli says erosion was something imposed on him by the heavenly principles, which actually invites a lot of questions by itself. And of course, Tsaritsa going openly against Celestia. Not to mention all of them losing countless friends and allies in the archon war, which by itself was basically kind of a god genocide started by Celestia. I often think about the lore of how full of life each national used to be before the archon war and the cataclysm: the cutscene of dozens of youkai mingling at fairs and celebrations, many different adepti and gods working together to build Liyue, the whole Guizhong cutscene, Sumeru being build upon the peaceful cooperation of three gods etc. vs how comparatively barren it is now, with only memories and traces of dead friends and foes and all sorts of gods and non humans, and a handful of living gods left when there used to be many. (Mondstadt being a bit of an exception in most of it bc they struggled from the start lmao). All of this to say it definitely paints a rather clear picture of why the archons wouldn't have much reason to love or respect Celestia. All they got from it seems to be grief, and all of them were powerful even without the gnoses, so it doesn't provide true value for them. But it definitely feels like there's more to that and I'm excited to see the full story

[@lilacdaven]

one tiny edit: I doubt celestia started the battle 500 yrs ago. It's stated in Sumeru Lore with the two recent updates that Khan'ria actually built war machines and sucked the power of the Ley Lines, deliberately harming the planet and all nations for their own greed. You could argue even that Celestia and khan'ria are just two peas in a pod of the same making, only on two different extremes. Celestia isn't excusable for murdering innocent people of course, but Khan'ria is now proven that they also weren't entirely innocent either...celestia had a real reason to put an end to their actions, they just went about it in a very obnoxious and harmful way, scarring innocent people. Khan'ria's politicians and Celestia's rulers are the ones who should receive blame.

[@mitab1]

Correction Celestia didn't start the cataclysm, khaenri'ah did, if anyone is to be blamed for Makoto's death, it's khaenri'ah

[@randomalternate]

Zhongli is not openly scared of Celestia. He doesn’t even hate it. He says that there is nothing more valuable than the gnosis, while Venti and Ei don’t really care for it. He has a yet unreleased nostalgic voice line “Celestia, ah… I have not been back in a long time”. My personal theory is that he didn’t care about their politics when he was younger, but now, when Guizhong managed to make him value humans, he is kind of disappointed with Celestias punishments for civilisation like Khaenri’ah hence he’s doing his rebellion in disguise, through the Tsaritsa, as to not to break whatever contract he’d made with celestia

[@Acro]

I always thought that secretly the archons wanted to go against the Heavenly Principles, because none of them put up a fight in giving their gnosis away to the Fatui.

[@KrazyRa66it]

Just a thought... The traveller has woken up after the cataclysm. Thats 500 years. And all thats going on in teyvat is also happening 500 years later. So that could possibly mean that the tsarittsa and other archons had already made a plan to have the traveller power up to be omni. And having all the power of the elements would make him powerful as the gnosis is a reflection of celestia and so, the heavenly principals and so he'd have the power to equal the heavenly principals. This also adds another element in the story... That being that the archons tried to persuade the first sibling to explain and join their cause, but at that time 500 years ago... The first sibling saw khanrieah destroyed and the archons themselves torn apart from the wars. So the first sibling couldnt join the archons for defecting with celestia and found the ideals and powers of the abyss better to find against celestia. So this time, the archons have put their heads together and written this play that the traveller has to act in and witness so as to understand the sufferings people and archins have been through. This would eventually make the traveller agreeable to take up their ideals to overthrow celestia. And with the first sibling having the power of the abyss, celestia will have a tough time to win.

[@ivefication]

I think focalors could be the first and only archon who will actually fight for her gnosis. She could possibly be the only archon that will stand with celestia until the end, for some reasons? Maybe because of her origins, that how she replaced the old hydro archon and stuff.. Something tells me that not only the war made her be scared of celestia.

[@firby7341]

i think something quite similar. dain says about her that "even she knows, not to make an enemy of the divine". i dont think she will give away her gnosis willingly bc she probably thinks the tsaritsa shouldnt go to war with celestia

[@mattlibra3139]

Same, I feel like she takes her role so seriously because she IS a replacement, and won’t let herself or her nation fall as Kanreiah or lose people like the other arcons

[@pissmasterslopking]

I thought Venti fought for his Gnosis

[@shrrewb]

@@pissmasterslopkinghe barely put up one. I can’t believe I didn’t notice until now

[@furinafurever]

@@mattlibra3139especially since her nation is so advanced, according to what i’ve understood, the destruction of Khanrie’ah was partially or only because of the advancement of the nation

[@guidomista1291]

For Venti to be connected to the God of Time, I honestly think the cutscene of him and La Signora, showed that he wasn't trying to show off his power. I feel that he was trying not to draw attention to there or himself even if there was fatui there in front of the church. I personally think Venti is strong despite his playfulness and his constant state of being in hibernation during many of Mondstadt's battles.

[@komi7051]

I believe he tried to go against Signora. Because we can see that he was hurt by a single Abyss Mage At present, he's the weakest due to his absence Just dont smoke copium too hard, he wasn't the weakest but now he is.

[@guidomista1291]

@@komi7051 I mean, I see that he does seem weak in these cutscenes I'm mostly talking about the wind being the most versatile and the element connected to one of the most powerful things in the game which is Time tbh. I know that he was corrupted and so was Dvalin especially with the presence of erosion. I do believe he is a strong archon. And Venti comes up time and time again in the story, and he hasn't really displayed his power to the fullest. Call it copium but I'm just focusing on the outer lore factors and his personality along side the allegories and the power of the stories he tells that don't outright tell us anything. There have been lack of the representation of stuff dealing with multiple archons so it's hard to gauge their power.

[@guidomista1291]

@@komi7051 Also, we can't really confirm anything with him from just two cutscenes.

[@komi7051]

@@guidomista1291 Sorry but Zhongli and Raiden also haven't showed their full power yet. When we fought Raiden with those ambitions, we can barely see her full potential because we were fighting her in a form of gameplay which is nerfed version of her. And she has grown stronger everyday esp after her battle with the Shogun And Venti being connected to Istaroth doesn't make him special at all. Do you remember Thunderbird? A divine monster created by one of the Moon Princess aka Istaroth and her siblings, where Thunderbird got one shotted by Ei? Yeah, that's irrelevant Him appearing in the story very often? Man he was just drinking wine in Inazuma, and casual things in other places. He was just having a vacation stop theorizing 😭

[@komi7051]

@@guidomista1291 Yeah literally those two cutscenes showed him being hurt by an Abyss Mage. He was hurt with his Anemo Gnosis, which is the source of power during his prime era. He has grown weak now, same goes to Zhongli. They have retired, and soon will suffer erosion if Venti doesn't sleep again

[@DeeonleeCobb373]

How I see the Archons against Celestia ending: *GGZ Kiana's World Ending Scene*

[@racool911]

I can't believe we're at a point in the story where the Fatui only have 2 more gnoses left to get

[@Randompersonyouhaventmet]

Edit: 1 more Gnosis

[@racool911]

@@Randompersonyouhaventmet Would've been 0 if it weren't for frauditano fleeing like a failure

[@Randompersonyouhaventmet]

@@racool911 nahhh 😭

[@bangtanssera]

We can all just agree Ei simply was meditating and not interrupting a robot while most of choices were made by teyvat’s chatgpt and Ei herself just needed a lot of time to partially recover from what we she saw in the cataclysm. No like, I can really confirm after being traumatised you can actually let things flow the way they want to and not fight anything or not questioning anything even while understanding the consequences of her not doing anything… I was in such a state and honestly my life went downhill so quickly. I can find a reason behind Ei’s actions because of this she seems like a traumatised person that at some point tried to do something but she still wasn’t able to comprehend what was wrong in her actions. If I’m right she simply had no power in trying to do better, no any mental power to care & it’s really awful understanding she had so much responsibility but wasn’t able to perform cause archons don’t have proper mental treatment from PTSR or however it’s called in eng 😭😭

[@Truck-kun11]

My theory is that the real war will be between Celestia and the Abyss, with Teyvat caught in the crossfire, and thus it will turn into a three-sided war, with two sides trying to destroy each other while the humans (Probably with the help of the Archons) try to stop the world from falling apart.

[@raidenmakoto7168]

I think they’re all going along with the Tsaritsa for the protection of their own nations. We see Ei still traumatized by what Celestia did to Khaenriah to the point that she takes away visions to prevent progress of Inazuma reaching that point. All the archons know that sooner or later, their nations will earn the ire of Celestia and be destroyed whether they are truly guilty or not.

[@cosminacristea4529]

Just a question that bothers me: Has Celestia been mentioned in the game? I mean the literal floating island. I know that in the manga they point out that the island is Celestia, but I don't remember in game anyone ever mentioning the floating island or at least pointing at it. Like at least Paimon should have said something about a huge floating island that can be seen from almost anywhere in Teyvat, even if somehow they don't know that's Celestia. Did I forget or did they never bring it up?

[@starlight14673]

yeah you are right thats true maybe they fear i mean even the npc's haven't pointed out like "hey look thats celestia. gods live there" its as if they CAN'T SEE IT like ONLY ARCHONS AND GODS AND DRAGONS HAVE TOLD ABOUT CELESTIA AND POINTED IT AND THEN ONLY NATLAN PPL WERE ABLE TO TELL since natlan will have north american/mexican culture i guess they were either blessed or did sorcery to see celestia..bcz its weird for me that no character has even told AND FONTAINE BEING AT CORNER WE HAVE MET NPC'S FROM FONATINE BUT NOONE TOLD US THAT CELESTIA IS RIGHT TOP ON THEM ??

[@tobyharris4777]

Yes. It's been mentioned multiple times, both in side quests and the main quest. Yae talks about Ei 'severing ties with Celestia' after Paimon says that the (Gnoses) 'they're what keep them tied to Celestia'. It's even in some pause menu voicelines like Venti's. These are just what come to mind first, I'm sure there's more.

[@cosminacristea4529]

@@tobyharris4777 but to they specifically mention "Celestia, the floating island in the Sky"? That was my question. Did they ever point out at the sky and say "That floating island is Celestia"?

[@starlight14673]

@@tobyharris4777 yeah but i think they meant to say not by archons but by random people except in manga like from npc's?

[@w.d.gaster9745]

@@cosminacristea4529 one of venti's lines that talks about flying up there, i don't remember more

[@puppetmaster8819]

I see what you're talking about Ei during the Sakoku Decree, so I think she's (subtly) basically/technically leading/developing herself into having a Stockholm Syndrome by prioritizing the safety of the people of Inazuma but got confused and/or forced to obey by aligning or identifying with the goals of the Celestia, that's why you said Ei's charaterization and logic is so polarizing. That would make sense if Celestia is like her captors and Ei is the victim who got psychologically traumatized over what happened 500 years ago, that's why what she did was kind of like a survival mechanism by locking herself inside the Plane of Euthymia.

[@impostorsyndrome1350]

You know Celestia is over when the Fatui, the Abyss, and even the archons are fightning against you

[@mitab1]

Remember that the primordial one solo 1vs the entire race of dragons and the seven sovereigns all together, and from apep it seems that sovereigns are atleast equal to if not more powerful than the archons, and that's PO on their own, now they got a the 4 shades and unknown number of gods up there,

[@impostorsyndrome1350]

@@mitab1 yeah and then he f*ing lost to Celestia

[@mitab1]

@@impostorsyndrome1350 he IS the ruler of Celestia dude

[@impostorsyndrome1350]

@@mitab1 wait, what? I thought celestia was aliens and they were the second who came, then the primordial one fought against them, but Celestia one, no? So is he the one behind the whole fake sky thingy then?

[@mitab1]

@@impostorsyndrome1350 yes, the sky could be his egg shells aka a sky barrier, and the cataclysm may have started becuse khaenri'ah found a way to break through the barrier witch opened the door for the abyss to run a mock

[@sheevismycity4789]

*Ei didn't start the vision hunt decree, the Raiden shogun did. Ei just went along with it. The fatui basically manipulated the puppet to start it, and fed Ei fake news to keep her oblivious to reality.

[@catlike9444]

I feel like the battle would be like this Archons = pillars Celestia = upper moons

[@anshuman2952]

I agree that Ei, of push comes to shove would rebel against the heavenly principles. It is clear that Makoto didn't like them and wished to free Inazuma from their clutches. And from "Transient dreams" onwards, Ei is working to realize Makoto's vision. And if the heavenly principles even realize that she is Ei not Makoto, then that would be enough impetus to fight back should the heavenly principles decide to punish Inazuma for some petty trickery. The only ones most reluctant to fight Celestia would be the two original archons, Zhongli and Venti.

[@4houseinrokini]

My personal theory is that Venti did the very things bards do best- put on a show. He clearly holds distain to Celestia, in so many ways- and he's seen what Celestia can do to a nation. Celestia is being painted more like tyrants at this point- and he's the god of freedom. So: 1. Give his nation peace from the Fatui, as explained in the video. 2. Make Celestia believe he doesn't oppose them. That it was stolen. It would make sense with his character. He could be supporting the Tsaritsa in secret just by doing this.

[@VictorIV0310]

I’ve always seen the relationship between Celestia and the Seven Archons to be similar to that of Vought International and The Seven from The Boys.

[@-Genki]

Hey there! I just wanted to say I really enjoyed watching your video as always. I do however have quite a few disagreements that I would like to note, specifically on Ei's section of the video. I'm very aware that this video is just a theory but I only intend to correct/highlight just a few things that are pretty core aspects to that segment of the video so I hope you don't take it to heart all too much as I overall still loved your video! I'm going to be quoting certain points in the video so this comment will probably turn out pretty long. I hope you don't mind. And if you have any comments or inquiries I'd love to hear them: ''But we know that Ei was already aware of the Fatui's goals and that they weren't impeding on her aspect of Eternity. The Fatui could've lied to her, most definitely. But with how open Signora was discussing her god's dreams being the noblest and purest thing in the world right in front of the shogun and how the people of the revolution were just building blocks to realizing eternity, I don't doubt there is a level of transparency between the Fatui and the Shogun'' Prior to the dialogue where Signora talks about her god's dreams and the building block part we mention the vision wielders which is who Signora is talking about in that sentence, which is a big difference in context. And prior to the dialogue where Ei says she doesn't consider the Fatui's actions thus far a threat to eternity, we ask her if she knows everything that's going on outside and she answers no. As foreshadowed in act I, the Shogun's sudden decision to issue to the VHD is perplexing. Ayaka asks herself if perhaps the Kanjou/Tenryou Commission had a hand in the Shogun's sudden decision to issue the VHD. This foreshadowing later gets proven correct and highlighted in act III where we learn that the Tenryou/Kanjou Commission did indeed influence the Shogun's decision to issue the VHD, with the Tenryou Commission also withholding key information on Inazuma's state, particularly about the civil war, people's dissatisfactions with the VHD and collusion with the Fatui. For reminder and clarity's sake I'll cite the letter here and highlight all the lies in it: ''The brilliant lightning reaches across Inazuma, displaying the eternal path of our Almighty Narukami Ogosho to the distant seas and spreading her name across the land. Your devoted servant, Kujou Takayuki of the Tenryou Commission, humbly submits this memorandum The Vision Hunt Decree exceeds without obstacles (Lie number 1). O Almighty Ogosho, at your mercy and might all delusions waste away, those who have fled return, (Lie number 2) and all your people welcome the inspections, (Lie number 3) indeed, even in their hearts. All of Inazuma is at peace thanks to your divine power (Lie number 4) , Your Excellency.'' To add further proof to this truly being the case, In Ei's act I of her story quest she herself admits that the Fatui's strategy of having the Tenryou Commission feed her deceptive information had a negative effect on her judgement making: "Finally, if you think you can copy the Fatui's strategy of providing me with deceptive information to produce flaws in my judgment" Which also got foreshadowed in act III through Miko: "For the sake of the Vision Hunt Decree, of course. Don't you (to Sara) think the Shogun might reconsider her policy if all the things you just mentioned appeared in this report?" With all of this to consider I'd confidently say the Shogun and the Fatui had no correspondence with each other, especially following her punitive actions against the former clan heads after everything came to light which would've made no sense if she approved of their collusion. This particular (and unfortunately popular) misconception is a case of people taking Ei on her word when she says she's well informed and an over-assumption of how much she knows. There's no doubt the Shogun puppet and Ei knew of the Fatui's presence in Inazuma but as for their hidden agenda, the civil war instigation and delusion market, they were kept in the dark. ''The Fatui are such powerful individuals that honestly both the Shogun and Ei should've realised that keeping them around would also disturb the peace of Inazuma.'' I don't particularly fault Ei and the Shogun for allowing the Fatui to roam in Inazuma. This is the case for every other nation we have seen so far. The Fatui is established to have diplomatic relationships with the other 6 nations of Teyvat because of: the Harbingers and their strong military which is the strongest in Teyvat (Stated by Venti in act III), their economic influence, and their diplomatic approach to international relationships so it does not come to a suprise they allowed the Fatui's activity within Inazuma's borders. Only when there's enough diplomatic fire to put on them do they back off without abusively adding strains on diplomatic relationships like with Liyue after the Osial crisis or like with Inazuma where the Fatui and Snezhnayan merchants were ordered to leave Inazuma following what happened.

[@MarineNyx]

I still hold by my theory that Venti and the Hexenzirkle are more dangerous for Celestia than the Tsaritsa and the Fatui.

[@williamnicol8236]

I'm in the camp that (in my humble) during the Archon War the Tzaritsa was forced to kill someone precious to her, we know that no "god" was allowed to not partake (the salt god) and her mission would be to get them back. This would explain her absolute vengence against Celestia, Venti's understanding and grandstanding, Zhongli's agreement, Ei would understand wanting to bring back a loved one and as stated by Aster Nahida wasn't there so a different tact was taken for her but Nahida would no doubt suspects what her motives may be. Although I could be dead wrong this seems to fit for me.

[@bookswithike3256]

I'm pretty sure the Tsaritsa was not the cryo archon until after the Khaenri'ah Cataclysm, so it's unlikely she participated in the Archon War.

[@BlueDaisy33]

I’ve been thinking about something regarding that theory ever since HSR. If the theory es are true and the Cryo Archon is a Bronya expy, then couldn’t the precious person who she lost be Cocolia expy or Seele expy? The Goddess of love losing the one she loved the most would make her turn her cold

[@williamnicol8236]

@@bookswithike3256 You're totally right mate. My bad.

[@bookswithike3256]

@@BlueDaisy33 I think if it was Cocolia that would make sense. Tsaritsa is not the female equivalent of Tsar, Tsarina is. Tsaritsa means princess. My theory is that the Tsaritsa is the biological child of the previous Cryo archon, the Tsar or Tsarina. If it's Bronya then the previous archon could've been Cocolia.

[@Oclur]

​@@BlueDaisy33 I'm pretty sure the tsaritsa would be the goddess of reason or some such

[@AnishaMaithil]

Hey aster I was fighting azdaha today and I saw something strange, one of the items you obtain from azdaha is the blood jade branch, an object that is said to be filled with the blood of the dragon king. If I may be correct then this must be similar to the tree above azdaha. This weird blue crystalline substance is kinda similar to the interior of the celestial nails which i think may not be a coincidence. Although another thing about this theory is that if the blue crystalline substance is the blood of the seven sovereigns, and the same substance is used in the creation of the nails, then how can the nails transform forbidden knowledge into a more manageable form but apep suffer from the effects of forbidden knowledge.

[@AnishaMaithil]

Also I forgot to add - maybe the blood of the slain sovereigns was used in the construction of celestia

[@shadow1010-q7d]

for venti he just wanted to give the fatui his gnosis but not directly you know that when archon use their real power their hear glow but venti's didn't this time

[@Aoijinsei]

I mean since the Archons all have demon based names, I think it's probably reasonable to assume that they'll all rebel against the heavenly principles.

[@kaitosasaki4776]

@Harry Shade Ok, but what if the archons don't want to do the celestia's bidding anymore and realized that the things they did were wrong?

[@18_moch.januarakbar17]

but if their names isn't changed it's bit weird for tsaritsa have saint name

[@kaitosasaki4776]

The archons have lived long enough to see the mistakes that Celestia made so I think it should be obvious

[@alenasmolemoreader3584]

@@18_moch.januarakbar17 she doesn't. we don't know her true name, "tsaritsa" is "queen" basically

[@simon_roy]

Celestia has cut ties with the Archons so their gnosis are basically useless and the archons are willing to let them go in exchange of peace with Snezhnaya. The Tsaritsa on the other hand might be under huge pressure from an outside party that we don't know yet. And she's trying to get all the power she can get to succeed.

[@oddityurie3435]

All of the Archons are just either traumitized or literally hates Celestia

[@weeewohoo1685]

Or both 💀

[@scottamusprime2510]

14:58 I have to surgically beg to differ, if only on the notion that Ei has any respect for Celestia. ASTER please hear me out! If we analyze the characteristics, stories, personalities, etc of Electro vision bearers, the common theme is disconnection from the norm, self removal from the widely received notions of day-to-day reality, rebellion, denial, and isolation. In establishing the Vision Hunt Decree, in creating the Plane of Euthymia, AND in giving away her Gnosis, Ei has effectively thrown the whole chess board out, giving a huge double birds to the Heavenly Principles and yelling "I'm not playing your game. Fuck this I'm out!" Myself as someone who wholeheartedly resonates with the stories and motives of Electro vision bearers, I completely understand and AGREE with Not Wanting To Participate In Any Affairs Of This World, putting everything in stasis, denying the corrupted waking world and living in my own bubble, under my own rock, in a desperate attempt to achieve Ultimate Peace. ✌

[@GuyWithAnAmazingHat]

Genshin is about Gods giving up their power so that mortals can take control of their own destiny, the Gnosis are just holding civilisation back from independence. Also in the Yoimiya story act 2, there was an extremely intriguing dialogue over a certain scene: When Yoimiya was talking about fireworks and meteors, she said "One represents the past, and the other the future. They both bloom in the sky but have completely different meanings behind them." This scene is set to night, when she said this, the camera points directly at Celestia first, the cuts to the Moon, as if telling us that Celestia represents the past and the Moon the future. This is extremely interesting to me because the Moon is the "future", the point of destiny in all Hoyoverse games, FlyMe2theMoon, Honkai Gakuen, Honkai 3rd, all had The End/Finality occur on the Moon, it is the future point of Destiny that all characters must over come. Kiana the Herrscher of Finality is the Goddess of the Moon, and she is the Heavenly Principles in Genshin. I feel that the game is telling us that we met Heavenly Principles in the past at Celestia, and in the future we will meet her again on the Moon, or she is now the Moon, following the Moon Sisters theories.

[@jsw973]

The moon is the one constant in all the bubble universes of the imaginary tree

[@nothmm8582]

Zhongli's motivation to support the Tsaritsa has always been weird.Remember Zhongli isn't the type of person you can persuade easily.He is the richest and the most influential Archon among the Seven with a strong army behind his back.What possible could the Tsaritsa have used as a bargaining chip?

[@rasenpapi5653]

zhongli giving up his gnosis and forming a pact makes complete sense if part of the contract states: after overthrowing celestia true reign must be given to the mortals. zhong just wants to retire, and on all levels but literal, he is retired. however according to celestia, the true power, he is technically still on top. no matter how absent or passive zhongli becomes he is still the geo archon regardless and is still the true ruler of liyue. only in death, whether its celestia's or his own, can zhongli truly retire.

[@mitab1]

So basically he's like a king who rule for life and can't simply retire

[@xOrionNebula2708]

@@mitab1 ironically the god of mora and contracts retires broke

[@xOrionNebula2708]

@@mitab1 ei didint care about mora because she has 3 comissions working for her and also had no need for it in her plane of euthymia

[@danielm5535]

I’m still wondering if there’s a possibility that Morax is a subjugated Dragon Sovereign, given Apep’s dialog about “bowing down or becoming dust”, and Morax referred to his silence as being part of a contract “when it all began”, not in regards to Celestia/Khaenri’ah, but to when the First Throne descended and defeated the Sovereigns. If that’s the case, could he be regaining true sovereignty from the time of the Dragonheirs?

[@whitecat3448]

He isn't but there's something strange about him

[@jsw973]

He's old as fuck even compared to the other archons, so there's definitely something going on with him. However, I'm still pretty sure Azhdaha was the geo dragon sovereign, who have been in hiding until Morax found him. He might have lost his memory after all the ley line disruption between when he lost and when Morax found him, since I'm pretty sure that's also what hapenned to him when the Liyue miners dug too deep.

[@SammiSkulz]

The dragon Sovereigns don’t necessarily need to be a vishap. Vishap could be the race that happened from the dragons and such. But if Zhongli was the dragon you would know since he had his gnosis. That’s how they would get their full power back. But I do believe that Zhongli has been there from if not the start damn near it. That’s why he has a different contract with celestia than everyone else

[@fyodorwashere]

i live for ur archon lore videos

[@louloudaki_]

nahida is my favorite *because* she doesn’t hide anything and we’re basically watching her grow into her role and it’s wonderful, i love all the on screen character development we see for nahida and scara

[@kucing8107]

I think the real reasons why Inazuma quest is so controversial is actually because Hoyoverse insistence of not to make the story predictable.

[@kunalkorag]

Well venti said he knows the future so he might know tsaritsa goal and plan.

[@lnsflare1]

Hypothesis: Celestia never cursed the Khaenri'ahns. *Rhukkadevata/Kusanali* did, inadvertently, when she responded to the Forbidden Knowledge corrupting Irminsul during the Cataclysm. The "Curse of the Wilderness" seems to clearly just be the standard symptoms of high degrees of Abyssal/Forbidden Knowledge corruption (which full blooded Khaenri'ahns seem to be very resistant to), and the "Curse of Immortality" is just a side effect of having their corrupted souls locked out from entering Irminsul and the Leylines, like how the Eternal Oasis was left in a perfectly unchanging state after being fully cut off from Irminsul, but was said to now be facing eventually collapse/erosion now that the system making that separation was destroyed, like how Khaenri'ahns are still interacting with the regular works. All that destruction we saw was the Sustainer of Heavenly Principles working alongside the Archons and the Nagarjunites/Heroes of Khaenri'ah to fend off the global Abyssal invasion that Khaenri'ah was at Ground Zero of, and she was visibly suffering from that corruption when she fought the twins afterwards.

[@jsw973]

But if the forbidden knowledge is what made Rukkhadevata accidentally curse Khaen'riah, why didn't the curse of immortality and wilderness subside after Nahida cleansed it from Irminsul? Eleazar did, and withering zones don't proliferate anymore, so why is that not the case with the Khaen'riahn curse? Dain is still alive. I'd say this curse is definitely of divine origin, it is something that no archons can pull off.

[@lnsflare1]

@@jsw973 Nahida deleted the Forbidden Knowledge that was had been contaminating Irminsul from the continued remembrance of Rhukkadevata after her corruption while dealing with King Deshret, which didn't need to be done during the Cataclysm since Rhukkadevata/Kusanali had learned from the Deshret incident how to deal with Forbidden Knowledge without letting it contaminate Irminsul or herself in the first place (which is probably why Rhukkadevata didn't even realize that she had been contaminated for millennia until that point). They didn't need to retroactively delete themselves to remove the Forbidden Knowledge that infested Khaenri'ah, they just prevented it from infecting Irminsul in the first place, which probably involved locking any infected Khaenri'ahns out of the leylines/Irminsul, which gave them a form of immortality. Also, as her second story quest showed, Withering Zones did still propagate since they were caused by Apep's infected children losing their own battles against Forbidden Knowledge corruption that they still had from Apep eating Deshret's corpse, even after Nahida significantly lessened that effect by deleting Rhukkadevata's Deshret-infection that had been infesting and killing Irminsul. Now that Apep has been purified and restored, Withering Zones will probably stop propagating, unless there were some other of her children still wandering around outside of her.

[@mrcookie6596]

Kusanali can't fight the khaenri`ahns alone

[@lnsflare1]

@@mrcookie6596 She didn't fight them at all in my hypothesis, she just used her sysadmin privileges to lock them out of Irminsul so that their Forbidden Knowledge corrupted souls wouldn't be able to further corrupt it.

[@firby7341]

my theory for ventis agenda: he wants a world with only the tastiest apples. he makes a comment about how bad the apples in celestia taste. he loves apples. why wouldnt he want to burn those apple trees of untasty apples ? ;) on a more serious note: what are the heavenly principals doing NOW that they must be stopped? nahida said they are inactive since the cataclysm...is the tsaritsas plan somehow revenge-driven? since they are inactive SINCE 500 years, why wait those 500 years to make a preemptive strike? why not make it as quick as possible while they are inactive? what did she (the tsaritsa) do in those 500 years that now she starts collecting the gnoses but not earlier?

[@yogeshpadma2653]

Collect the harbingers in gacha in f2p way

[@jsw973]

Ay, if Ott* Apocalypse can plot for 500 years and do countless crimes against humanity, ending up planning to destroy the entirety of the present world to save a girl that never loved him back, Venti can do the same for his apples lmao

[@varana1239]

Will you also do videos about star rail lore? Also great video.

[@sayoko_ou]

As I was watching this it all kinda started making sense cuz looking at it from "how the cataclysm affected the archons", it lines up with a few things actually. Venti has that line about "what is freedom when demanded of you by a god", which echoes Zhongli's sentiment of giving the people more agency of sorts. This is very speculative, but it'd make sense if the two of them share more or less the same sentiment about their people after witnessing the destruction of Khaenriah. And personally, since Ei did lose Makoto due to the cataclysm, I think it makes a lot of sense why she reacted that way. But I think it's worth mentioning we still don't know why Makoto went to Khaenriah without any prior notice, so maaaaaybe it could have something to do with her faith in celestia being shaken? Again, very speculative, but it would be cool if that was the case! :D

[@janellita3775]

Please make a recap of 3.6 and what really happened on that apocalypse..thank you..i love your videos

[@ArrowVI]

Hey Aster! I saw a theory just now about the possibility about Zhongli being a descender, and maybe it's worth looking into it? I thought it was pretty dumb but apparently the dude still remembers Rukkhadevata which uh, shouldnt it be impossible? Wasn't she removed from the Irminsul? I'd like to see a video from you about this as you're always so good at these type of vids :D

[@xmixdx7351]

i dont think we will truly know what their intentions are until we see the destruction of Khaenriah first hand, which given how much time has started to play a role in the story, we seem to be heading towards watching the Destruction first hand, this will also probably give the reasoning behind both the twins journeys

[@dominctiemes9483]

Hot take: the catalism was a warning put out from the heavenly principle as a warning that celestia doesn’t like the way teyvat is heading toward, hence the archon needed to go to Kheanr’ia during the catalism and with the archons powerlessly seeing kheanr’ia fall had shaken the archons into hidden and a more passive aproach to leading their respective countries. And now the cryo archon deviced a plot to stand up against celestria but for it they need the gnosi and the other archons know this, hence they dont actively persue the gnosi. But due to the traveler not being from teyvat they are skeptical of the twins hidden agenda and thus dont poll them into this plot against the heavenly principles. But because of the khean’rian disaster the twin which has been in teyvat for 500 years devices a plot to also go against celestia through the abyss. However unaware of the scheme of archons they see eachother as opposing forces and in thr final act they will put their differences aside and challenge the heavenly principle once and for all.

[@lucidifying]

Even if tsaritsa gets all 7 gnoses Is it really Gonna beat Celestia Yeah Celestia doesn't have much feats but from what we've seen so far They're much stronger then any archon ALOT stronger

[@xOrionNebula2708]

i mean what if they gave the gnosis to us i guess??? but idk

[@Levynite]

13 minutes in: ASTER, ASTER: BRRREEAATTHHHEEEE

[@jellyfox7710]

I have a theory becouse we learn that the gnosis are made of the 3rd decender i think its our sibling and the tsritsa is planing to basically put our actual sibling back together to help go against celestia

[@adamarafa3595]

i watched latest Wei theory and it make sense when come why archons give their gnosis willingly

[@lachlan516]

The Tagalog moment caught me off guard there. 😂

[@deliaiacob3432]

hello, just wanted to point out that the invite link to your server in the description is not working anymore. nice vid too btw!

[@ChillwithAster]

NAURR oki oki ! Ty for informing me!!!

[@blakwater777]

Even Nahida's lore is freaking adorable!❤

[@josemacalintal1915]

Lol that Filipino Transition in the bloopers caught me off guard HAHA

[@Yoicjtenkai]

Am i the only one who simps for asmoday?

[@Andy-cq8fs]

No.

[@GuyWithAnAmazingHat]

Don't talk about leaked information here, Asmoday hasn't been mentioned officially.

[@yogeshpadma2653]

Me too

[@opalakv4ob]

Yeah I think I'd be scared of erosion and what I might do if I was Zhongli, too. lmao

[@juliekm6495]

Since the beginning of the game the archons have all tried to distance themselves from their gnosis in one way or another. They all in one way or another know or have an idea of what is coming. Venti gets drunk because he is worried and hopes he has done the right thing. Peace in Monstadt from the Fatui would be a good reason for him giving up his gnosis. With Zhongli we have no way of knowing his exact design, because we have not been able to know all his intentions in the story lore. I do believe there may be more contracts that he has signed. But then what exactly is Zhongli? He is much more than simply an adepti, or a dragon or just an archon. Ei. With her head in the sand, left everything in Mae’s hands. Out of sight, out of mind. Remember Docttore and his using Kubukimono to destroy the economy of Imazuma by bring the filth to Tartarsuma? It was by accident he discovered Kubukimono and begins experimenting on him by sending him into the furnace, and finding Kubukimono can’t die. So not only does Docttore discover Kubukimono as a useful asset for the Fatui in the Abyss, but he will also be able to create a god with with Eli’s gnosis, using Scaramouche later in Sumuru’s history. Nahida is so very wise and understanding, besides reading Docttore’s intentions. She simply takes a calculated risk to set Docttore back and save Scaramouche from any more undeserved torchere. Wanderer becomes Nahida’s asset and she becomes the one person he can truly depend on. Perhaps Kabukimodo should or could have been the major god in Teyvat? Then Focalors and Farina did the truly right thing and tricked the Heavenly Principles, by placing Algeria’s gnosis back into Neuvilette’s hands, though he did not need the power of the gnosis as he is a dragon sovereign. Yes, in one way or another they all knew that from the 500 year war, the fall of Khaenri’ah and the cataclysm that something really really big was coming. (The end of Teyvat?) That is why whoever “heavenly summoned “ the travelers brought them to Teyvat several hundred years before the fall of Khaenri’ah in the first place.

[@SU1_cidalDadbro]

I like to think that Celestia uses the Archons to exert their control over Teyvat. The gnoses symbolise their ties to Celestia; I don't remember if it was some sort of gifted divinity to them after landing a seat among the Seven after the Archon War, but that's irrelevant for now. Giving them up would mean that they wish to sever their ties with Celestia. Their severed ties should also extend to the nations that they rule. They don't want Celestia to be involved with their people's lives. And I don't think they want to be involved with what Celestia could want them to do to their people in the future if even the possibility of it may arise. What happened and what they did (or did not do) to Khaenri'ah instilled that fear in them, I think.

[@Tinyviola351]

Do you knows wheres the queen and king chess pieces? Its in lumine and aether

[@TheKnizzine]

I feel like if they wanted war with celestia they wouldnt be sicking the traveler on the abyss order nearly as much

[@omgseele]

Wait if zhongli made a contract to end all contracts couldn’t he tell us about our abyss sibling bc he said he could bc he made a contract but he ended it didn’t he?

[@PenguinMasterKnight]

What I wonder with the Gnosis hunting is, does the Tsaritsa just let the Harbinger's get the Gnosis however they want?, or does she tell them who to talk to and who to just attack?, cause Zhongli is the strongest, and I doubt anyone but the top 3 MIGHT be able to challenge him, but a deal was made to get his (Granted, with questionable methods), would the same not be possible for any of the others?, like Venti didn't care to get his back, Ei doesn't care for hers, and Nahida traded hers away for more knowledge, so I doubt combat would be needed to get them right away. I can't imagine Murata giving hers up without a fight though, from what I've heard of her anyway.

[@zaikthewanderer1954]

What if... the vision that have venti rn, maybe that the gnosis. Maybe he transferred the power of the gnosis to the vision. is that possible?

[@pluhut]

As a new player, I hold a minority of an opinion. When I started playing the game I instantly recognized my arm being twisted by storytelling - I was thrown on Teyvat, I was introduced to a noblebright fantasy, mostly carefree nation of Mondstadt, and I met a charismatic femboy god-bard. Given that perspective, it wasn't long before I was then told "Fatui bad", "Tsaritsa bad", "Abyss order bad" so on and so forth - typical good guy, bad guy mentality. Such a mentality however is not for me, nor does it work for the foundations on which the lore is built - Gnosticism. The Archons in Gnosticism are not benevolent forces (they are, uncaring, at best), and me roleplaying as a world-traveling Outsider to Teyvat had no reason to assume one Archon is better or worse than another, so I refused to fall for the gaslighting. Consider that Traveler ended up waking up in Mondstadt, but how would the story be if he/she instead woke up in Snezhnaya first? I don't trust any Archon as far as I can throw them, and I am witholding judgement on the Tsaritsa until after I get to meet her myself. The Traveler is literally an Alien to this world and its affairs do not concern him/her unless directly intertwined with the fate of our Sibling - which Archon is "more bad" than another Archon, why do the Pawns of Heaven (archons) wish to rebel against Heaven (Celestia), what the fk is Paimon and why won't it ever shut up, all these questions are "none of my business" as a temporary visitor to Teyvat.

[@Tapepuella]

I’ve somehow misread the title as “Archons vs The Therapy Principles” 💀

[@Charolette_Katakuri]

fairly sure matpat (game theory) made a theory about this too.

[@Alloyd876]

😂one must remember what the gnosis is. It is the 7 original dragons authority

[@pandaescarlate7268]

They are 100% conspiring. although they might not know the whole plan they somewhat trust that defeating Celestia is the best future for teyvat. They just are not (as we say in Brazil) 'putting their asses in the bullet line' which means that if tsaritza loses they can pleage innocent. Since they didn't "collaborate" directly but rather were forced Every archon till now LOST something beacuse of Celestia Venti lost his own Liberty Zongli lost his lover Ei lost her twin And although not compliment nahida (rukkadevata) even lost HERSELF.

[@mitab1]

Correction, venti lost his liberty becuse he was the only God in mondstadt, if the wolf was still alive he would have been the archon, The fact that Celestia were ready to give the gnosis to king deshret without any fighting suggest that maybe the whole war thing wasn't their order, and instead if all the gods just choose 7 gods among them to rule their wouldn't be any response to fight, as such it's not Celestia's fault that guizhong died in the archon war, both Ei and nahida's loses were not Celestia's fault ether, it was khaenri'ahn who started the cataclysm witch caused the corruption of irmunsul forcing rukkadvat to sacrifice herself to save it, and ei's sister died during the cataclysm in the new desert regin, fighting the abyss monsters that were summoned by the khaenri'ah

[@Tambuburay888]

Sad Fact: There are still many Archon Meatriders (Especially for Ei and Zhongli) who thinks Archons stand a chance against Celestial Gods

[@thetruescientist1788]

what if the bargaining chip from the tsarista to zhongli was knowledge? it would make sense.

[@xOrionNebula2708]

hes lived for over 2500 if not probably even 4-5000 years i dont really think knowledge is an issue

[@gintasasd]

It would be cool idea is tsarist promise zhongli to revive he's old friends because 1 gnosis is meh but all now that's power

[@pandirex7762]

What I ask myself is: Does the Tsaritsa know the methods of the Fatui Harbingers?

[@mikep1831]

love the content

[@itzshiori7403]

the day the heavenly principles shows up again is the day the community explodes, lol

[@frousteleous1285]

Wasnt it the Shogun, not Ei, that made a deal with the Fatui?? This is what always confused me.

[@mrcookie6596]

The shogun followed Ei`s order🤭

[@verdan6098]

Isn't Barbatos/Venti the God of Freedom? Might be that Venti is doing what he is always doing, supporting from tyrannical rulership. Might be why the Fatui went for him first, what better way to gain freedom is by gaining a "blessing" or support from the God of Freedom.

[@demonking-zm3rs]

Honestly maybe we as a Fandom put to much value onto the Gnosis think about what they actually do and how they actually benefit the Archons There manifestation of power but Creating Storms Mora the Akasha There not things the Archons couldn't do they seem like amplifiers So trading them in especially if there's hidden negative or if (personal theory) there's no longer any one actually In Celestia would serve them best Maybe it's not Celestia there worried about maybe it's Teyvats "Laws" which if Cryo Archon wants to alter is the best outcome

[@joelllanos2531]

venti really said to signora you should smile less doesn’t look good on you lmao

[@xOrionNebula2708]

"resident rodent beats invasive vermin"

[@UsernameHere51]

So it’s a Thanos situation? Right idea wrong execution?

[@TheBilayer]

What if I tell you Archon are fallen angel that can not go back to heaven.

[@0mi]

TODOROKI MY BELOVED

[@itsBooweee]

Gusto ko yung tagalog part.

[@Rozherhn]

For me I don't think that the archons are against celestia, but that they don't know what is happening there, like Nahida who doesn't know why they are silent, of course this is a secret even more so that now there are factions like the order of the abyss that He clearly doesn't know anything about Celestia and makes everything up with what little they can get. The fatui are another faction that seems to have even made a theory to justify their actions, if the theory of heaven is false it is a theory within the game, for me it is a justification that they were not "benefited" or "treated well" by destiny believing that celestia is the one that controls the destiny of teyvat. It is when the loom of destiny enters and it seems that it has nothing to do with the power of celestia but with the abyss, of course this is also something that very few know, including Dainslief and the twins apparently. Celestia is not bad nor will she be the final boss. Yes, many will say that the archons are joining the tsariza, but Venti's gnosis was forcibly removed when he was in his weakest state (he fought against a dragon, he gave him part of his powers, he used many of his powers). It was not the tsariza who sought a deal with Zhongli, but rather Zhongli sought a deal with her to carry out her retirement plan, since he is not precisely the best person to create these types of plans. Makoto literally violated the laws of celestia by modifying the irminsul without permission, becoming an irminsul and being planted by his sister who didn't know anything about this, and Ei didn't stay behind, I think he took out the designs and knowledge to create the puppet from The same celestia without exactly asking for permission through gnosis, now understands the fear she has for having done that, and to finish off Yae gave a gnosis that went to Nahida that served to heal the irminsul tree and cleanse the forbidden knowledge. The tsarizan is the only one who does not know her plans but since she is the representative and archon cryo, she herself represents the duality that all cryo have, of what she shows and what she wants, it would not be strange that the tsarizan wants to save everyone but He is causing suffering to everyone, who wants to save Teyvat with a plan that condemns him. Are the Archons really against Celestia?

[@mitab1]

Imagine if the archons are really against Celestia but if they succeed in their rebilion plan, Celestia will go down and with it, the sky barrier, and then the abyss will be free to ingolf everything in darkness

[@TrevorHarvey-yi9zl]

A lot of these questions are answered in the story quests for the Raiden and zongli. Pardon my spelling.

[@kcplacia]

Sobrang init po sa Pilipinas HAHAHAHA

[@squid.3044]

YOOOOOO

[@bcfb21]

Sounds like mortal arrogation to me

[@aleksandrax199]

JOHNGLI

[@ginsengaddict]

11:27 - considering how similar Marionette and Guizhong are, I am pretty damn sure Zhongli's contract with Tsaritsa has something to do with her.

[@WhiteSilk1783]

You can't really just assume that they are the same person just because they look similar... Also didn't guizhong's corpse disintegrated? I think? Please tell me if I'm right

[@starlight14673]

@@WhiteSilk1783 in cutscnene it did looked like but gods have consciousness also i mean look at AZHDAHA AND APEP they body they are in are not their true forms there forms are long gone so yeah could be that zhongli JUST WANTED TO SAVE HER WHY? IDK AND PUT IN THE PUPPET CREATED BY GUIZHONG or fatui did this because they liked it

[@ginsengaddict]

@@WhiteSilk1783 I'm not assuming they are based solely on that. They're also both tinkerers who are specifically interested in Khaenrian tech; and we never got confirmation that she died, that has only ever been implied, and the game has lied to us about stuff like this before. She could very easily have faked her death, just like Zhongli did.

[@Octoring__Gaming]

Nah its not cause they want to help her, its cause they all find her attractive/j (joke)

[@emperormaxwell432]

I don't buy this theory for a second. It makes no sense if any of the Archons actually care about their people that they would aid the Tsaritza in her rebellion. There is nothing to show that the cryo archon or any of her fatui are strong enough to defeat the sustainer or anyone else up in Celestia. Plus, if the archons actually wanted freedom, it makes no sense to support someone who is trying to overthrow Celestia only to replace it with themselves. Sure, being under Celestia prolly sucks for them but how much better do they think it would be to ruled by the Fatui instead? Instead, I think they gave up their gnosis to set the Tsaritza up to fail. They're playing both sides or perhaps trying to claim neutrality in the upcoming conflict. If Celestia wins, they can claim that the fatui stole the gnosis by force or schemes, and if the Tsaritza wins, they can claim to have contributed to her victory by giving her the gnosis.