The Art of the Awful Protagonist

[@KaiAfterKai]

Directors commentary out now over at: www.patreon.com/posts/awful-directors-71265996?Link&

[@brianv9242]

A character who’s philosophy is “the means justify the ends” is bound to be a corrupted protagonist

[@aloox395]

Meh

[@benjamina6618]

do you mean the other way around? this would mean that what is being done is good enough to justify a bad ending

[@ysjyoutube2599]

​@@benjamina6618 man shut up

[@aaronviaje134]

"Mikasa. All the things that I did, I need you to understand..." "If I ever hear, one more time, that you did this for your friends..." "I did it for me. I liked it. I was good at it. And... I was .... really... I was free."

[@AM17titan]

this should not be between them but actually armin and eren

[@PhatBoyFresh]

Are we seriously not going to talk about how the light reflecting off his glasses look like creepy ass eyeballs? I can't stop staring at it.

[@KaiAfterKai]

👁👁

[@KaiAfterKai]

Also, not to be pedantic, but my pronouns are they/them ^^

[@hutoutpizzad]

"Eren on the other hand is FUCKING MISERABLE." 12:34 BEST. LINE. EVER.

[@32Gold_]

he didn't say it that loudly

[@hutoutpizzad]

@@32Gold_ But he did emphasise it idk

[@x47]

Great video. I like how you're putting more of your personality into it. Also, this topic you've picked seems to have resurfaced as a popular discussion point. Either that or me clicking on that F.D. Signifier video has the algorithm throwing up a lot of "Eren bad" videos at me. That being said, I don't think nuanced character studies into evil people should be in anyway inhibited out of fear of misinterpretation. Art reveals a lot about a society not only in it's viewing but also in it's reception. Incels, or whatever, missing the point helps reflect the real world parallels the fiction was created to mirror. Trying to safeguard against someone "getting ideas" is as pointless as someone changing the channel from a beer commercial because they don't want the alcoholic in the room to get thirsty (it doesn't stop them thinking about drinking). If the individual sees a person actively trying to commit genocide and still thinks, "that guys a hero", that person's moral compass is at fault. It's like how some people argued that American History X made people racist cos Ed Norton's character was too intelligent. Nah, if you're agreeing with the skinhead cos he speaks good it's likely cos your already racist not because he's making "good points". Eren isn't making kids "cool with genocide", kids with that mentality were already so inclined before they even read the book. The great Joker or Fight Club debates are just another iteration of jazz/rock/rap is destroying the youth. The only difference is that we have access to social media and can unfortunately engage with fellow audience members who lack media comprehension. Don't let the idiots in the room dictate what art can be made cos regardless of what's being created they'll still be idiots. Don't try to regiment how art is created by foisting inorganic requirements of "make the bad guy cartoonishly evil or else they wont get it". Standards/media censorship boards have been doing that for decades and all it leads to are formulaically bad shows. Stories can be more than just moralistic fables or fairy tales to learn from. Cos the audience you're worried about are not learning anything, they're just twisting what is being depicted into affirmation for a world view they already have. No author can safeguard against that.

[@KaiAfterKai]

I watched the premier of that FD vid. I had already started working on this video by then, so it was quite surprising to see him covering the topic ^^ Of course there's only so much an author can do in regards to tempering those expectations. Once the stories out there, it's also effectively out of their hands. They can do their best to pre-empt something bad, but ultimately, the final decision is down to the wider audience.

[@ThreadBareHope1234]

I couldn't agree more. The ones that identify with villains shouldn't dictate the trends. And the way you said people that "misinterpret" the cautionary tale are the people the story is likely about really made me at peace with the idea of these fans. They are likely lost themselves or the kinds of people the story is warning us of.

[@melancholiclonging8641]

Dude you definitely deserve more followers. I feel like so many people misunderstand Eren, even after the ending. You are one of the few people I've seen hit the nail on how his character is written. Not to mention your overall layout of this video essay was done very well too. Keep up the good work!

[@KaiAfterKai]

Thanks a lot, glad you enjoyed the video!

[@purrowell]

Eren is not an inspiration. He is common desires pushed to an extreme, the wish that everyone would just go away, the desire to be free, the selfishness, ignoring your own feelings. He is relatable, but to relate to a villian and be cautioned or comforted by not wanting to commit horrible crimes is different from forgiving and even supporting them, like a jeagerist.

[@VideoEssayWatcher5484]

I think this video truly neglects the fact that people who idolize these explicitly evil protagonists are either going to do it regardless of how the author changes how the message is portrayed, or are too young and or stupid to realize that these characters shouldn’t be idolized.

[@_VULTAR_]

This is so good and so insanely underrated bro, I hope you get more attention next time. Keep up the good work bro!

[@imsentinelprime9279]

10/10 video. I wish more people would bring this up.

[@KaiAfterKai]

Thank you very much 👊🏾

[@raawesome3851]

While I mostly disagree with your statement about how Eren came up with the plan last minute, I mean, the table scene proves he wanted them to be separated from him for a while, most of the other aspects of this, I agree with

[@drewhigbee815]

I think Anakin Skywalker is also a character that exists in this same architype while being slightly different. He seems more like nacho varga from BCS who wound up on bad choice road and spent his whole life stuck on that road and he eventually gives up on trying to get off and just embraces it even though he always regrets it.

[@torresoso]

Great video! Just discovered your channel and you clearly put a lot of effort into it. You deserve my sub

[@KaiAfterKai]

Cheers mate, means a lot ^^

[@ryank002]

1:16 Light Yagami:😢😢😢

[@NikuNicole_RikkuX5]

I just discovered your channel and gotta say that I absolutely adore the flow and presentation of your videos

[@KaiAfterKai]

Glad you're enjoying yourself here ^^

[@internetcouch]

Great analysis! I never woulda thought to compare these two this way, but you're spot on. Something interesting your analysis brought to my attention is the way each story went about condemnation of their flawed protagonists. Eren is miserable and pathetic in the end, but the construction of his world (everyone being out to get his people, etc) arguably justifies him. Walter is graceful and self-satisfied in the end, but his world scorns him and the cost of his actions on those around him is clear. What you get when you analyze the characters' personal arcs vs. their worlds gives you some interesting differences in framing. And both stories have a lens through which a viewer could come away idolizing those characters despite authorial intent, but the lens is different between the two stories.

[@ProtoTypeFM]

I think the critical difference is that Walter ultimately does have a moment of actual self-reflection and personal growth in the end. Walter genuinely did admit to himself and Skyler that he did what he did because he liked it. Eren on the other hand did it because "he wanted it, but also it was meant to happen either way, but also he only did it to make his friends heroes". It feels like the author wanted to cover all his bases with the ending, people who genuinely liked Eren as the protag got "he was sacrificing himself (and 80% of all life) for his friends", people who liked Eren as a tragic character got the timeloop stuff robbing Eren of his agency and freedom, and people who liked Eren as a villain got "he's just like that, genocide is just what he's about". The story doesn't have the balls to pick a lane.

[@seg162]

The author isn't being non-committal by sufficiently expressing the different facets of a character at the end of their role, facets already explored up to that point. Individual members of the audience, on the other hand, are too inclined to uphold one of these facets over the others instead of recognizing-- or accepting-- that they coexist in the same character, and are meant to coexist in the same character.

[@SUAVEcritic]

I love how you began sentimentally with the anti-thesis lol

[@KaiAfterKai]

Yeah lol ^^

[@marluvsrap]

this deserves a lot more views and likes

[@KaiAfterKai]

Thank you ^^

[@clearandsweet]

Love this topic and your thoughts on it. There's some fertile ground to explore in the sociological factors that make these characters appealing to so many in the West right now, but that's for people smarter and more willing to be wrong than me. I think though that the most pressing question raised by characters like this is the one you bring up about how much the story should condemn them. How much onus is on the author of art to be aware of how their art is going to shape society. Honestly, such a thing is often an afterthought until the work in question has blown up almost past the author's control. Especially when the first rule of art under capitalism is that it must sell to even achieve the societal influence and beget this problem. I don't think there will ever be an answer for so complicated a question, but the media I like to consume and propagate tends to end up honoring pretty basic human ideals of compassion and understanding and love for others. Perhaps that's as specific as you can ever get.

[@ninjaishproductions2.053]

I think that, looking past the obvious real world harms from reinforcing bad beliefs, isayama managed to make one of his points through the way those sorts of people received the story. The fact that so many people agreed with eren and were willing to take his side shows the fact that these people are not far away from the jaegerists. For those of us who don't agree with eren, it's scary to think what would happen if these people had titans. But maybe fascists with nukes is basically the same thing. In that case, we should already be afraid

[@Darth_Bateman]

Bro, but Eren wasn’t the fascist. . . . Eren put a fascist in power to do the rumbling, and the rumbling was awful….But there really wasn’t another choice.

[@raawesome3851]

​@@Darth_Bateman if the dude didn't attack in 100, wily admits they'd have a harder time convincing the world.

[@Darth_Bateman]

@Ra awesome tru tru. But honestly? Not stopping at the alliance was just Eren going crazy.

[@RhythmLP]

Excellent job

[@KaiAfterKai]

Much appreciated 🙏🏽

[@everettenjeze6276]

Tbh as much as I believe Walt “won” it is at the same time a loss. Even with the money the people he was sworn to protect which was his family, their lives are completely scarred and will forever be judged. When he told Gretchen “my wife and son hate me and won’t accept anything from me” that is a failure as a father, a husband, and as a man who is supposed to protect his family. 50/50 if you ask me.

[@dinker2941]

I’m surprised this doesn’t have more views. Great video and thumbnail. Keep up the great work

[@KaiAfterKai]

Thanks! Definitely hope to keep up the pace ^^

[@_TheGhostChild_]

SUCH a perfect video, I literally have no words to express just how much all of this spoke to me. AoT and Eren are both my favorite story and character in all of fiction and this analysis has reminded me of why that is. The themes, ideas, writing, nuance, everything. Especially the parts relating to our real world, such a shame to see those characters dissertated like that by misguided people...Much love friend ❤

[@KaiAfterKai]

Glad you enjoyed x

[@MrPantone]

What an amazing video

[@jacobballance117]

Great topic to choose and amazing analysis! I especially like how you touched upon the nuance of Eren’s character and how the rumbling can be somewhat justified but at the same time you’re not supposed to agree with Eren and the Jaegerist’s actions (Floch is the worst). Eren is an amazing character, him manipulating everything is one of my favorite plot twists in any form of media ever.

[@KaiAfterKai]

That whole sequence is definitely an iconic one isn't it

[@user-qx1id1dt8x]

Stand up, dad *shits pants*

[@jacobballance117]

@@user-qx1id1dt8x Grisha: I can’t kill children, I’m a doctor!! Eren: it smell like BITCH IN HERE

[@seg162]

​@@jacobballance117 "Tonight, Dad? You're a Planned Parenthood doctor."

[@aliendilo3105]

I feel like, if we were to go in and make a character like Eren Jaeger more clearly evil... then we lose a major aspect of the story. I get that it can send the wrong message when AoT the plot forces the characters into a situation where genocide seems reasonable, but that's part of the story. Part of the discussion of AoT is that, on some level, Eren is justified, if not at the very least sympathetic. If you simply say "The story shouldn't have muddied the waters" then it'd be a less interesting story. There's a whole debate to be had on whether Eren would have gone through with the Rumbling if he had another option. Removing that removes depth from the story, and depth from Eren. I don't think an author should have to cater to dumb asses who look at a story, where Eren admits he's evil, everyone is calling Eren evil and explicitly just states that genocide is always wrong, and come away thinking "Genocide is good." If we do, we end up with kids stories, too scared to be misinterpreted that they won't tell a meaningful story.

[@AM17titan]

eren is just the victim of the cruel world

[@seg162]

The stunner is that AOT is very explicit about what it means to convey, regardless. If it was dumbed down any more, it would be an IKEA instruction manual.

[@841Takis]

One video I would recommend about Heisenberg is “the hidden origin of Heisenberg by Aleczandxr”. That video change my perspective of Walter white as a whole.

[@thehumourguy24]

Guys please suggest some protagonists like these two

[@Darth_Bateman]

Speaking of child born on the other side of the sea….. I hope y’all didn’t get attached to that wallet stealing critter….

[@KaiAfterKai]

I mean I do say he dies in the video.

[@Darth_Bateman]

@@KaiAfterKai True, but you didn’t say he would die off screen! 🥴 You gonna see AAAAAWWWWLLL O DAT BLOOOOOOD~

[@christianl4718]

These two are the greatest shows of all time

[@shortchubbyneckbeard1681]

Here-here

[@linkalot7415]

Agreed

[@dogoo5867]

I would say eren isn't really doing the rumbling for himself

[@KaiAfterKai]

Obviously protecting his friends and home are a very key motivation, but he confesses himself that he had selfish intentions.

[@gooby214]

If he really cared to do it for his friends, he would've asked them if they'd rather have that, or just flee to Hizuru.

[@niklas2295]

Are there spoilers for BreakingBad season 3 and onward? Please let me know. Would like to watch the video anytime soon

[@ionlyspeakfacts4395]

yeah there are spoilers for s3,s4,s5

[@DestinySpider]

While this is a great video and your take on Walter is fantastic, 16:45 is exactly the reason why it doesn't really work with Eren. For all of Season 4 Eren has been doing fucked up shit, with moments of remorse scattered about that clearly imply it was the only way. He pleads to Hange in that cell to give him an alternative, and Armin, Jean and Hange continuously reiterate to themselves and to each other that "they were at fault" for not finding a solution, so Eren went with the only method the story proposed of ensuring the survival of himself and his loved ones. In the beginning of that Season 4 Special 1 Eren contemplates about giving up to avoid the bloodshed, since Paradis getting wiped out would be a much smaller casualty, but he just can't accept it. And I didn't read what he said to Ramsi as him "wanting to kill everyone because he was so mad that people existed". When at the end of Season 3 Eren tried to cheer Armin up by telling him of the outside world, the point that made him stutter was flashing back to the sight of Grisha's mutilated little sister. I can assure you, he wouldn't have reacted the same way if what he saw of the outside world was people.. idk. Playing soccer. So all throughout Season 4 he is portrayed as someone doing something horrible because there is no other out. The Breaking Bad comparision only comes in during the final chapter when all of a sudden Eren's reasoning is thrown out the window and he goes "I dunno. I just really wanted to see this sight. God I love mass murder" _____ In short. I completely agree with you that Walter's character is fantastic in him lying to himself, the audience and everyone around him, pretending his intentions were pure, when you could clearly see they stemmed from his pride. He's an awful person who enjoyed what he was doing. Eren on the other hand wasn't that. For all of season 4 he was portrayed as someone who felt backed into a corner and took the one and only means of fighting back and saving his friends. The final chapter suddenly makes it out to have been for only himself, which wasn't built up to and earned, since the story didn't give Eren another out and show him actively choosing the violent path like Walter did. Jesus I suck at being consize. Sorry for the rambling. I just think Eren's "I did it for me" was terribly executed and unearned, and that heelturn in his character writing is the biggest reason why I can't find myself calling the finale good

[@seg162]

Eren _was_ given another out-- any variant of the 50 year plan and a targeted attack of the Global Allied Fleet as well as the airship research facility. It was explained, _to him,_ that this would literally prevent them from reaching Paradis and wreck the world economy so they could sue for peace from a position of strength. That certainly would have been better than going AWOL while being the lynchpin of his country's national security, committing treason by getting Zackley bumped (and nearly getting Armin and Mikasa caught up in it), endangering his friends and getting Sasha no-scoped, cooperating with an enemy of the state (Zeke) to compromise the entire military (something that nearly implicated Connie and Jean)-- just for them to get ambushed by Marley at Shiganshina and _nearly lose the Founder._ All while intentionally never informing his friends of his actual motivations, and antagonizing them to push them away. He's saying he's doing this for his friends and country, while _endangering_ his friends and country. Even before he starts the Rumbling, it's clear that there has to be something else even if he's being genuine about what he's claiming-- not least of all because he already likened himself to Reiner during the Marley arc. And then chapter 131 comes around and he outright explains that there was something else he wanted, and we see the "Freedom" spread.

[@Frongo]

that transition into the eren segment is fuckin genius

[@KaiAfterKai]

Aha, glad you liked it!

[@adimark42]

this is gonna blow up when aot ends ........

[@KaiAfterKai]

👀🤞🏽

[@sochioranmyaku]

I do blame the fans for being dumb. I’ve seen Breaking Bad, AOT, and Fight Club and it was clear as day that the protagonists were not supposed to be admired and inspirational lol.

[@user-qx1id1dt8x]

I do think eren is inspirational to an extent, as long as you take away his genocidal tendencies ofc

[@qaqeb5225]

@@user-qx1id1dt8x he has qualities that are inspirational sure but overall definitely sucks seeing people misconstrue his character

[@gooby214]

@@qaqeb5225 Yeah, even the creator criticizes him.

[@Darth_Bateman]

I mean….Eren was always this pathetic and incompetent berserker who did his best and fought for the right thing. But his best work was done when he was pretending to be somebody else.

[@TheJman964]

I don’t know if anyone has seen Invaderz video on Eren but he made a follow up on why the Rumbling just cannot be justified and it’s honestly scary how many people in those comments are trying to justify genocide. Another great video btw, you, Invaderz and other creators with even basic media literacy are nailing down Eren’s character and make me happy to continue talking about a story that I just can’t get enough of.

[@KaiAfterKai]

I find it amusing how everytime I made a video about Eren Yeager, Invaderz puts out a similer one just days before I finish mine ^^ Glad you enjoyed it!

[@Jonas-ob2sh]

The best part is that they have to write paragraphs upon paragraphs of justifications and excuses whereas people with common sense and proper moral compass can say just say that it's objectively wrong morally and unjustified in terms of military tactic. Killing billions is never justified and there were other (shitty too but less extreme) options that would have guaranteed safety of paradis at least for decades.

[@everettenjeze6276]

It’s because we’re seeing everything from erens POV and knowing that he was destined to suffer and feel miserable. Also the world declared war on paradis so all is fair in love and war. Not justify but not angry about the rumbling.

[@JoseRamirez-ew7vq]

@@Jonas-ob2sh you just proved the reason why Eren did the right thing. “At least for decades” meaning that after a couple decades, the world would just regroup their military and nuke Paradis for good. Eren wanted to prevent that

[@seg162]

​​@@JoseRamirez-ew7vq And he COULD have, just by destroying their battleships/airships, sinking their economy in the process and allowing Paradis to peacebroker from a position of strength-- just like Yelena proposed well before they even scouted Liberio.

[@rottenbear1507]

3:13 Exodus 20:7: “You shall not misuse the name of the Lord your God, for the Lord will not hold anyone guiltless who misuses his name.

[@May191_real]

I think you might like to try the Nasuverse. It's fate franchise specifically. Don't worry where to start, the Nasuverse is like a big puzzle. I would recommend the flagship (Fate/ Stay Night, Fate/ Stay Night: Unlimited Blade Works, Fate/ Stay Night: Heaven's Feel) or prequel series (Fate/ Zero) though as a hook.

[@KaiAfterKai]

I've thought of getting into the Fate series for a while, but never figured out where to start ^^ Thanks for the recommendation.

[@Vizion3000]

This is a good ass video man

[@Vizion3000]

Underrated channel

[@KaiAfterKai]

Thank you ^^

[@soranonsese6273]

finlly intellectual discussion

[@wesleyem3]

Bro, respectfully, you're gorgeous. Content is awesome too. Keep it up.

[@missjoannaofyeetyoink]

I feel like Eren follows through with his plan even though he feels terrible about it because he's seen the future and he knows that that will be the outcome no matter what. He's forced himself to do it.

[@raawesome3851]

He chooses to do it.

[@shantanutoraskar428]

​@@raawesome3851 he literally refused to do rumbling from the start everything pushed him to do it

[@raawesome3851]

@@shantanutoraskar428 what? What other solution does he go after? What other plans? Hell, the only reason that the entire world goes to paradis in a month is because of eren's attack. He sped up at the very least the rumbling.

[@marinap-xp7vb]

@@raawesome3851 the first time he hears Zeke's plan from Kiyomi he says that they should spend their time trying to find a better solution because he doesn't want to sacrifice Historia. That might be what the other commenter meant? Imo, he does want to find a different way at first because he knows that the rumbling is wrong but eventually gives in to his selfish wants and uses the fact that no obvious alternate solution presented itself as an excuse to go ahead with it. That's just my interpretation, tho.

[@raawesome3851]

@@marinap-xp7vb I think, just like Reiner, it was all an excuse. It was all a thing for him to look like he was a good guy, that he wasn't a bad person. Just like he did for Ramzi in 131, deep down, he wants to be seen as a good person, or justified.

[@twoface2001]

I find it interesting that I tell my friend that Walter White’s and Eren Yeager’s none character development are the same a “good” person becoming the villain but realizing that they were never the good guy. And then I’m seeing more videos talking about it

[@KaiAfterKai]

Funny how that works ^^

[@Darth_Bateman]

Being good is overrated.

[@matteobelletti8929]

Eren yeager actions are not comparable to those of nazis. Nazis weren't hunted down by jewish, nor closed off from the world obliged to live a life with poor conditions, social castes. He did what he did because he was angry, yes, but also as a mean to allow his friend and nation of equally badly marginalized and once doomed people to live a somehow normal life, by attacking what he saw as (and mostly indeed where) priviledged people compared to them. In a world where your cursed to live in a cage of walls, violence from higher ranked people, monsters outside, corrupted politicians and believers, corrupted government and lies, when friends and family get brutally killed by giants, how can you be so sure to define his actions as evil? What was the right decision?

[@KaiAfterKai]

This is exactly what I mean when I say the series has created a situation where genocide is an understandable reaction.

[@Omar_E11]

He himself admits it is irredeemable. There is no right decision.

[@tamizkeksik99]

Thanks for not making the text overcomplexed. I hate these pretentious phILOsOPhYcAl videos. This video has a perfectly understandable language.

[@KaiAfterKai]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@Azurabyte]

I love your videos man you deserve way more views you do I hope one day you cover xenoblade 3 like you did XC2

[@KaiAfterKai]

Thanks so much! I'm currently about 31-32 hours into XC3 - absolutely loving it, no doubt I'll make something on it ^^

[@Azurabyte]

Read this after you beat chapter 6 because of spoilers I personally think N is very similar to Eren as a man who just wanted to be with the one he loved but ending up becoming evil defending what they live in very different ways but also very similar

[@Alaric-r9g]

I get hating Walter White but Eren haters are genuinely the funniest people on earth, how do you live with so little pride and respect the thought of someone uncompromisingly not sacrificing their liberty makes them a villain to you?

[@KaiAfterKai]

Funny how you can make anything, even genocide, sound good if you describe it as vaguely and flowery as possible. You ain’t gotta bust out the thesaurus, mate, just say the quiet part out loud.

[@Alaric-r9g]

@ maybe if the people outside were not comically racist to the point of feeding innocent little girls to dogs to, and didn’t try to annihilate all subjects of Ymir, eren would not commit genocide

[@KaiAfterKai]

There we go. Wasn't hard, was it?

[@Alaric-r9g]

@ and don’t try to claim some moral high ground, being against Eren is clearly condemning paradis to extinction.

[@Alaric-r9g]

@@KaiAfterKai not hard to get you to admit you are fine with the genocide of paradis island

[@mrbubbles6468]

Eren was not doing things to be self serving. It’s literally why everyone had a problem with him breaking down in the ending. Because if that was what he really wanted he could have had it. But he didn’t. Because he was being anything but self serving

[@raawesome3851]

The rumbling, he literally says, was self serving. He would have done the rumbling even if he didn't know they'd stop him. The breakdown is him regretting his actions, but he still decided to pursue it.

[@ps4gamerali]

Hi

[@KaiAfterKai]

👋🏾

[@djojo6857]

big problem when your average viewer can't comprehend the ideas behind an awful protagonist and idolizes them blindly, I'm sorry but sometimes art is lost between crime glorification and edgy to be edgy content

[@Omar_E11]

r/Titanfolk in a nutshell

[@Kuudere-Kun]

Here is something important I want the world to know. The moment any KZbinr makes a video praising Breaking bad, they lose any credibility with me they once had.

[@KaiAfterKai]

Was it really that important?

[@Kuudere-Kun]

@@KaiAfterKai yes

[@KaiAfterKai]

Well, thanks for the engagement anyway. Hope you have a good day.

[@torresoso]

BB is peak though fym