The Ashen Forge: Episode 102 - Your Risk, My Reward with Guest NiKr | An Ashes of Creation Podcast

[@top4o00]

DYGZ wants to be NPC in the game :D

[@TheoryForge]

I am seriously considering asking if I could have an NPC made after him if I up my pledge -Fantm

[@MikeKibby]

@@TheoryForge I think that would significantly go against the core pillars of the game.

[@PherPhur]

​@@TheoryForge I'll second this notion. Make a Dygz NPC that sends you on a pointless quest halfway around Verra in your trash starter gear.

[@geticced]

41:20 My answer would be yes, if I were to base my opinion on GW2. The game showers you with rewards, and the rewards are pretty much dogshit (as there's no better way to explain). Every tiny bit of content you do, offers some kind of reward. It does really feel like a gift, a participation trophy in a way. Especially because the rewards are so miniscule (even for the harder content, so doing harder content doesn't feel more rewarding at all - mostly because the devs don't want to make certain content be more viable/popular than other). Events are the main thing, there's pretty much 0 risk involved, and when you complete an event, the rewards often feel meaningless...Especially because of the fact you have to repeat that same event (or other events) a few dozen times to get anywhere. I'd much rather prefer a more challenging/risky content, that gives a good reward after I complete it. The riskier, the more challenging it is, the longer it takes, the better should the reward be. I do not think there always should be risk, and I feel that just the challenge and time it takes to complete should also matter.

[@TheoryForge]

I would agree with this. The opposite of risk everywhere, meaning risk nowhere, leads to lackluster experiences. I have noticed this too with guild wars 2. -Fantm

[@PherPhur]

Word

[@antekacki8753]

I've recently watched a Game Dev Conference talk, in which the topic of meaningfulness was touched upon. To briefly summarize, to point discussed was that meaning comes from volition, and volition is achieved by satisfying basic human needs - autonomy (aka impactful choice), relatedness and competence. You don't have to satisfy all in equal manner however, people are different after all. The talk is called "The Freedom Fallacy: Understanding "Player Autonomy" in Game Design", I really recommend it.

[@TheoryForge]

Awesome. Will check it out. -Fantm

[@PherPhur]

Meaning is reason. Whats that mean? Whats the reason for that? It's an elaboration. Meaningful means having many reasons behind something. Arguably more than 2. In the context of an MMORPG and PVP, "meaningful conflict" would mean the PvP being layered in aspects of the MMORPG. Similar to what Dygz said about the dyrads. Just because people that use the corruption system to force PVP and create shallow conflict sometimes doesn't mean that it wont be used for meaningful conflict. Fantmx, you asked about some meaningful conflict in a game, for me thats Paladins. A MM based FPS. I had some of the best time in my life in that game, met one of my best friends in that game, laughed, shit talked, rolled some noobs, got #1 in Europe with one champion, fun times. I'll end with saying I also really really like the idea of layering PvP hardcore into an MMORPG like AoC is doing. I also agree with Dygz that it would be better to have more reason to the PvP, and i hope Intrepid lays the foundation for that through systems that corruption flagging can utilize.

[@TheoryForge]

Meaningful conflict most certainly is player specific. I agree. Cool about Paladins! -Fantm

[@megamcee]

Thanks for having me

[@TheoryForge]

Anytime and thanks for chatting with us!

[@brutal-noodle]

Great conversation.

[@Hawkinz]

Meaningful PvP is not meant to be an absolute.

[@TheoryForge]

A good point. And when a design pillar is meaningful conflict is it ok to have meaningless conflict?

[@nineinchnailzPSN]

Dygz belongs on a Palia podcast. His personality is at odds with every inch of Ashes.

[@TheoryForge]

Dygz will be playing Palia for sure. Do you think he does or does not represent a large group of players interested in but not sure about Ashes?

[@prathia8699]

​@@TheoryForge it certainly doesn't sound like he's very interested, so I guess not.

[@TheoryForge]

Interested enough to do a podcast for 6 years -Fantm

[@mazmundie]

I think gameplay can still feel meaningful even if it's on a small scale. Making breakfast in bed for someone is meaningful. I'm very keen for engaging in small scale PvP if it helps the local community

[@TheoryForge]

I agree that the individual defines what is meaningful and not all rewards require massive risk -Fantm

[@prathia8699]

What if that dude took all the Flower A and I need the Flower A for a quest that needs to be completed asap. I don't know of any other flower A spots and I need it now. Killing that guy is very meaningful if I cant convince him to hand over so much of Flower A.

[@TheoryForge]

A good point. What is meaningful depends on the person being asked.

[@prathia8699]

@@TheoryForge Value, hence meaning is subjective. Value is additionally generated on a personal level based on what you've expended for something. For some that may be safety for others it may simply be time, same reason people fall for a sunk cost fallacy, it may not be worth it to you but they find that thing much more valuable due to what they've already sacrificed. Additionally, why rewards without cost, I.E. login rewards and such, have lesser value to most largely relys on the fact that nothing was sacrificed to earn that reward. Taking Fromsoft games as an example, many bosses can take an inordinate amount of time to complete, in that case the reward is usually not an item or even progressing the game but the experience itself. The same rings true for people who do PvP, they may do it for loot but usually it's the experience that matters more. Steven may speak of adrenaline quiet often but that is just part of the experience. Not all people that enjoy pvp do it for the adrenaline. If adrenaline was the only goal Steven had, he has the money to just skydive every day for 8hrs a day.

[@Korela]

NiKr ♥

[@MikeKibby]

I would have liked to hear what NiKr had to say, rather than hearing Dygz rehash his "why I wont play the game" (again....) then the "I figured out how to totally not participate in the spirit of the game"... its getting kinda old

[@Fantmx]

Confirmation bias.

[@brutal-noodle]

Well speaking from a perspective of someone who is hearing for the first time, I enjoyed having his opinion on it.