The Ashen Forge: Episode 103 - More Than a Healing with Guest Vlhadus | An Ashes of Creation Podcast

We have special guest Vlhadus join us on cam for a discussion about Ashes of Creation in general and the recent cleric show.
Vlhadus KZbin: / vlhadusgaming
Vlhadus Twitter: / vlhadus
Vlhadus Twitch: / vlhadusgaming
Vlahdus 1v1 Podcast: / @1v1podcast
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[@Fiddlez14]

I think people need to remember that AoC is coming from a DM. This whole thing is his creation from before. He is creating an MMORPG with an actual focus on the RPG. Keep debating on PVP vs PVE. It's a PVX and most of the people who are supporting it are supporting that aspect. Trying to turn it in to less is a disservice to them.

[@devincook1396]

risk vs reward doesn't always mean tense high risk situations. Sometimes there is low risk situations where it can be rather peaceful I think.

[@dygz]

One would think that should be true, but… Anytime Steven discusses Risk v Reward he stresses high adrenaline rush PvP because that’s what gives encounters more value.

[@prathia8699]

Exactly, sometimes the risk is as simple as wasted time.

[@irishsage2459]

17:54 I mean, this isn't for you then...its that simple. Why spend this energy on something you are not going to change. This isn't up for debate, the only choice you have is not play this game. I don't understand because it's not up for debate and it's not changing. So what is the point of this? This just isn't for you, and that's OK. Seems odd to discuss something you are going to quit day one, because PvP is going to be all around you constantly. That's just REALITY

[@Xx-Zeppelin-xX]

As Stephen always says, this game is not for everyone. PvP will be a part of AoC.

[@Fantmx]

And I've never once encountered anyone asking for PvP to be removed from the game.

[@dygz]

Everyone who has been following Ashes since Kickstarter has no problems with PvP being part of the game. Pretty sure everyone who backed Kickstarter backed to support the 4 core pillars mentioned in the Kickstarter video - which includes PvP in the form of Meaningful Conflict. And, they also support Corruption punishing non-consensual PvP.

[@krakhungames]

I'm only 20 minutes in, so something may change. But Dygs cake analogy seems strange to me. If he doesn't want cake, he doesn't want anyone else around him to have cake either? Am I misunderstanding that?

[@dygz]

You are misunderstanding. I like cake…sometimes. I’m not obsessive about cake. If I go to a wedding, I expect it to be very likely I will have one piece of cake by the end of the day. I might have two pieces of cake. Other people can have as much cake as they like. I’m not going to be paying much attention to how much cake they consume. But, I’m going to be pissed off if I’ve already had some cake and when someone offers me cake I decline because I’m full of cake so I decline and the person tries to shove the cake down my throat anyway. Corruption needs to be in play everywhere at the wedding to deter unwanted cake shoving. I don’t need or want friends to protect me from having cake shoved down my throat. It is not going to make me feel better for them to tell me, “Hey! Remember the guy who shoved cake down your throat? We shoved cake down his throat for you!!” I don’t go to weddings to get an adrenaline rush from eating cake. I certainly don’t go to weddings to get an adrenaline rush from the risk that someone might shove cake down my throat when I’m already full from eating cake.

[@krakhungames]

Got it, my misunderstanding is from the comment at 18:45. That's about the time I wrote my comment, before watching the rest of the vid.@@dygz

[@dygz]

@@krakhungames Mostly my fault. I was trying to shortcut and move away from my view of the the triple down on Risk v Reward and ubiquitous PvP because we talk about it too much on the show. Vlhaudus said after the show that he was really interested in hearing me explain my view, so… we got stuck talking about it again. 😅

[@krakhungames]

@@dygz 🤣

[@carlmay3396]

Really like this podcast, nice to see old timers like me interested in this game.

[@TheoryForge]

Thank you!

[@davidsumpter4933]

Does the Persistent Alpha mean that the world will be already built (nodes) for day one players? Or does it only refer to only the content?

[@dygz]

Nodes are not already built. Players cause Nodes to become active.

[@keifchief]

the main thing with ashes is that its a game that isnt meant to be for everyone. im guessing if it gets released and is what the game is supposed to be, there will be a large portion of mmo players that dont like this game. which is fine, people are catered to this new age of gaming which is meant for everyone and has ease and accessibility. i think they are on the right track to be an amazing mmo, cant wait til 2065 when we finally get to play it

[@Fantmx]

I honestly cringe more and more hearing that being said. I think it tends to send the wrong message. I agree that many traditional players won't like it but we want them to at least give it a try. Also to function we need healthy populations of PvP and PvE players so I think we shoot ourselves in the foot saying the game isn't for you, which is largely targeting the PvE crowd.

[@keifchief]

@@Fantmx u cringe with the words that steven himself said? that this games not meant for everyone? lol its just a fact. the playstyle of this mmo is much different than any newer releases, which is why this game wont be for everyone. i dont see how thats "cringe." thats a good thing, there will still be a large player base, especially starting out.

[@Fantmx]

@@keifchief Steven didn't start saying that until last year. Before it was very much let's make everyone happy. 🙂 I cringe at how much it is said now. Whenever an alternative point is made the most common response is well it's not for you. That seems like a very bad business decision.

[@dygz]

I think it’s fine that Ashes is not meant for everyone. It would be nice for Steven to clearly state who the intended audience is and who is not intended as the target audience. So far, I’ve only heard Steven clearly say it’s not for players who never want to encounter PvP. I also think Ashes is right on track to be an amazing PvP-centric MMORPG similar to Lineage II and ArcheAge. And EvE Online.

[@PherPhur]

Well.. Just like real life everything can be assessed as having some risk vs. reward, just going to my fridge I could slip and fall on my hardwood floor, but I really want those fajitas. Though... I don't even think about it cause I don't care. Life is full of risks and I choose not to care about most of them. Who knows, maybe you get lucky, maybe thinking about a type of bag in regards to PvP was always going to be a waste of time for you because the risk either never existed or was so infrequent it wasn't worth the effort and trade-off. Guess you'll find that out when you turn into the wandering hobo at launch though lol.

[@Fantmx]

Part of what I'm noticing though is that Intrepid is increasingly highlighting that you might slip going to the refrigerator where you typically would not have thought about it.

[@prathia8699]

​@@Fantmxmore like you go to your fridge and a racoon may have raided it. Is that racoon still there? Who knows!

[@Fantmx]

@@prathia8699

[@dygz]

@@Fantmx Feels more like Steven wants raccoons delivered inside new refrigerators so they can come with a live-in adrenaline rush trigger.

[@Alpha_Sigma01]

Dygz ruined this whole convo! Un subbed!

[@Fantmx]

You know with KZbin tools we can see subs and unsubs right? It would perhaps be a little more constructive if you could give some feedback on how it could have gone better. Either way thanks for watching

[@prathia8699]

The cleric and tank are the core of the party trinity so they need to nail it. 10 mins later, I really worried that were seeing so much of the cleric and tank 🤦. They need feedback on those things because they're so essential.

[@Fantmx]

Same person or two conversations happening at once?

[@Rbirby]

What eq devs left AoC's team ?

[@dygz]

Jeffrey Bard Akil Hooper Matt Broome Michael Bacon

[@Rbirby]

Oh yeah that's right... That's nothing recent so I thought it was something more recent thank you...

[@dygz]

@@Rbirby Recently, we gained Bill Trost!! 💜

[@projectbarnacle5926]

Imainge the same cake analogy with gathering. I like to gather occasionally, but I don't want to always gather. I don't even want other people to be gathering around me even if they aren't making me gather, I'm full of gathering, and THEY should stop, or better yet, the developer should restrict gathering to only very specfic zones so I don't have to see it unless I'm hungery for it. The only difference is they can't force you to gather, but people forcing PVP wasn't the crux of the argument. It was the mere presence of it being around. He wasn't concerned with "safety", as in, being forced to PVP or suffer the consequences of it, it just existing around him was the problem (I emphasis this point to prevent the mindless comeback that will probably come anyway). Basically, fine if you don't like PVP, but drop the stupid anaology which attempts to create an impression about the situation which resembles it not at all.

[@dygz]

LMAO. I didn’t say people should stop PvPing around me when I’m not in the mood for PvP. It’s fine for people to PvP around me when I’m not in the mood for PvP. I will ignore what they’re doing and focus on my interests. I don’t want to be around people “protecting” me from PvP. I don’t want to be around “revenge” PvP. I like cake/PvP sometimes. When I’m not in the mood for cake/PvP, it’s fine for me to be around other people enjoying eating cake/PvPing. I don’t want other people shoving cake/PvP down my throat when I’m not in the mood for cake/PvP. Especially if I’ve already had my fill of cake/PvP. I don’t need friends to protect me from having cake/PvP down my throat when I’m not in the mood. And I’m not going to want to see my friends shoving cake/PvP down other people’s throat in revenge. Corruption is designed to punish people who shove cake/PvP down my throat when I’m not in the mood. Which should be OK. But, I’m not going to attend a party that has a room where punishment for shoving cake down my throat is waived the moment I enter the room. (A game with permanent auto-flag [Corruption-free] FFA PvP zones) I’m also not going to attend a party where all the activities, like dancing and and looking at photos and buying a soda all has me thinking about the risks and adrenaline rush of players shoving cake/PvP down my throat when I’m not in the mood for cake/PvP because the host believes that nothing is truly fun without the adrenaline rush of risk. I’m not concerned about the “safety” of the cake. I’m not concerned about poisoned cake/PKing. It doesn’t matter to me whether I survive eating the cake that was shoved down my throat (because I won the battle). I like PvP. Sparingly. But there comes a point where there can be too much PvP. I become full of PvP and I don’t want to be forced to PvP when I’m not in the mood. Especially because I’m an Explorer first and foremost - there can’t be a permanent zone that auto-flags (Corruption-free) FFA PvP. Originally, Steven said Ashes would not have permanent zones like that. He changed that a year ago. And that is a deal-breaker for me. But, I think that’s a great addition for people who love PvP.

[@prathia8699]

​@@dygz where did Steven say there wouldn't be PVP as a central part of the game? Wasn't one of the core pillars in the kickstarter vid, PVP?

[@dygz]

@@prathia8699 1: The Kickstarter says that Meaningful Conflict: Sieges, Caravans, Guild Wars is a core pillar. Which is the kind of PvP I like. 2: In our Episode 15 interview with Steven, May 2018. Steven states that Ashes will not have a permanent zone with auto-flag (Corruption-free) FFA PvP. Which is good because I don’t play on MMORPG servers that have zones like that. 3: In August 2022, Steven announced they made a significant change to the game design - adding the Open Seas as a permanent zone that auto-flags (Corruption-free) FFA PvP.

[@projectbarnacle5926]

@dygz Not sure why you basically just repeated yourself from the video without addressing the point in the slightest, and even mentioning the safety thing which I desperately tried to emphasis understanding and it not being close to the point. Autopilot turned on?

[@dygz]

@@projectbarnacle5926 Your point has nothing to do with anything I’ve said. Which means you don’t understand my point. So I explained it in more detail. If you still can’t comprehend what I’ve said, that’s OK. If you truly understood what I said, you would not have been able to suggest that I don’t like PvP. Also, the crux of my stance is not the mere presence of PvP being around.