The Atheist Handbook to the Old Testament Vol. 2 | Dr. Joshua Bowen

[@History-Valley]

Get Dr. Bowen's book! ➡📚amzn.to/3Gjzb4m

[@Darisiabgal7573]

Book 2 is much better than Book 1 Josh has also recently published a second book on learning Sumerian.

[@riley02192012]

I want to get this book. This conversation was excellent. ❤

[@williamwatson4354]

Waiting for book 3

[@riley02192012]

I have issues with my memory as well. I really felt for Dr. Bowen. I take medication to help me with that as well. I get confused all the time and I constantly lose things. Sometimes I have trouble talking to people because I can't remember the words to express what I want to say. I tend to repeat myself without realizing it. There is so much to Autoimmune Disorders that people who don't live with them don't understand. This might be the pain talking tonight, but I always feel like I have to work 100x harder for 1/10th the results. I constantly feel like I not good enough. My heart really felt for Dr. Bowen. ❤ I don't like seeing people suffer or struggle with chronic illnesses and chronic pain. 😢

[@cousinbuzzin9060]

Super-Cliff Notes. Love your books Dr. Bowen

[@seoigh]

Really looking forward to Vol 3 -- especially as I am currently doubting that Genesis-Kings predates the Septuagint

[@victordelarosa4599]

Great interview

[@eddiemartin1671]

Great 👍

[@larry3591]

Lots to think about

[@Theslavedrivers]

Interesting that Bowen acknowledged that Vol 1. was pieced together 'after the fact'. Although there was a lot of great information in there, the structure wasn't quite right, for me. I would have liked to have seen 'secular'/ historical notes next to the biblical narratives - I can't help but think that the arrival of the 'Sea Peoples' in c1200 BC and the supposed 'Exodus' around the same time is more than coincidental, for instance.

[@mrmorpheus9707]

How much does Dr josh charge for an interview?

[@scienceexplains302]

*6,000 years in Bible* The six thousand comes from adding the ages of the patriarchs at the birth of the next patriarch and other time spans until you get to a historical date.

[@Sportliveonline]

Do you think it is possible there are parallel universes going on one with a flood and other a normal civilisation existing side by side could it be possible but highly unprobable ~~

[@RandyReneau]

How can we be judged, if the Bible has many errors.

[@kenyattathompson6685]

Focused on the wrong thing

[@cpnlsn88]

We can be judged by the moral law

[@RandyReneau]

@@kenyattathompson6685 if the Bible has errors and contradictions how can we believe a spiritual book to be the truth when it’s written by liars? What things when scripture is just rotten? Why should anybody try to found the truth when it’s a fabrication. I can see believing in something that is the truth, but are illiterate backward people living in antiquity. Believing in the rapture or Jesus and his angels are destroying the evil, these people in antiquity were savages. And religion today is bad believing in a savage book not of love but of slavery and control of your fellow man. Where is the love when very little. Did yahweh have any love for anyone except the children of Israel same with Jesus. This is mans creations not God which if you read enough isn’t what people think. I remember reading that in theOT there is 400 word of love but none is love just love. And John 3:16 isn’t love but destruction.

[@RandyReneau]

@@cpnlsn88 what is moral law, when in the second set of the Ten Commandments you cannot cook a goat In its mother milk. Isn’t that strange.

[@cpnlsn88]

@@RandyReneau Kant defines the moral law

[@Darisiabgal7573]

The conquest of Canaan. We need to go back in time to the early copper age. We are in the Ubaid culture again we need to see Ubaid culture are these cities dotted along the Persian gulf as the Delta of the Tigris and Euphrates expands upon slowing down of sea level rise after the climate optimum. The place is great for farming, but not great for building civilizations. What ubaid culture lacks intrinsically is ores, but it does have these connections with Hasuna/Samarra culture and there is a low level persistent site at Tell Shemshara in the Zagros, but its ore base comes from the Ararat mountains on the other side of the Tigris and these mineral sites are increasingly under the control of Kura-Araxes civilization. Bottom line, getting copper ore from the upper tigris region into its ore working sites like Bad-Tibera is difficult. The developing site is the Iraniab plateau, Jiroft, rather late an they are developing Arsenic bronze, so again we have fair enough reason not for going that route. So there are probably traders moving up and down the Euphrates through post-Halaf culture through the amorite (Mar.tu) pastoralist. I have read that it is possible that these Halaf peoples were gradually pushed into Ubaid. It seems like Uruk is the merger of two villages of diverse origin, the exterior being a trading post for the pastoral/trading cultures. Within this trade the Uruk culture that is emerging from Ubaid is more interior and more geared for trade than the original coastal settlements. This sets of a period of expansion up the Euprates that commences in the forth millenium with hiccups [Epic floods, hostile invasions, and mysteriously abandoned cities]. So we need to state our pretext here. Who is invading, it appears the organization principle is Sumer, probably a coalition organized by Uruk but lead by Kish to populate the middle and upper Euphrates. But that leadership, having previously failed has now ilicited the Mar.tu (Amorites) and they have reinhabited Mari. High culture is Sumerian, the grunts are Amorites. And just a side note, these middle Euphatean tribes are likely the Eastern Semetic speakers of later Akkad, and we should take it that the negotiated involvement of the Semetic tribes is necessitated (by their tenacity) and also allows them to expand eastward in the direction of the Tigris. And so we begin the conquest. In about the 26th millenium BCE the lugal of Mari has sufficient strength to push into the region of Ebla. The Eblaite people are quasisemetic and Ebla holds the keys to a encapsulated trading empire that probably controlled lands as far west as hit, certainly Damas and certainly a scattering of cities that included a couple of cities loyal to Ba'al ~ Hadad (there was variation so . .). The history of the conquest of Ebla is fuzzy, it seems at time it joined in an agreement and at other times a conquest. But by the 23rd century the Eblaites were able to administer in Sumerian cunieform with their own /slant on the language. What we can probably guess is that at this time the Sumerians were trading as far as Hazor, the mediterranean coast, so that they now had access to copper from cyprus and the S. Levant through their Eblaite trading channels. An, the divine sky, is still in his white temple in Uruk, and in sumer the Semites are still subordinate to the Sumerians. Through the late 25th and early 24th century Sumer, a confederation, became embroiled within territorial disputes emerging from which was the first dynasty, the conflict obstructed trade and probably resulted in rebellion against the king lugalzagasi. Through and unlikely fiat Sargon replaced him being the first Semetic ruler of Sumer, and then Akkad. Unlike previous rulers Sargon drove his army expanding the boundaries of Akkad around the periphery of the previous Zagasi's Empire and this included Canaan. It is at this time we begin to see destruction layers in S. Canaan. The Akkadian empire lasted barely 4 generations and was crushed by the gutians. Its important to note that the Hittites are not yet apparent, but we are seeing influences of Kura-araxes culture, now at its peak prior to Sargon on the Sea of Galilee, this culture may have brought winemaking to the southern levant increasing its trade potential, along with copper from negev, olives and dyes. The third age of Ur managed to wrestle control from the Guteans, by legend fled to the S. Levant, and Ur resumes the conquest of Canaan. Its probably about this time that Haran becomes a colony of Ur. During the period that follows there is more evidence of destruction so that bith Ai and Jericho appear to have been destroyed between Sargon I and the end if Ur III. At this time, An, ilu by the semites becomes a high god in canaan, with cult oriest in high places as the cultivate trade among their favored and sequester armies against those who resist them. Once again Akkad and Sumer devolve into civil war, and in the midst the Amorite Hammurabi emerges. The Amorite goes on to emulate Sargon by expanding the territories of Akkad and Sumer, and we see a law code in Babylon and Hazor. We can assume that in Canaan expansion came with conquest or the threat thereof. Shortly there after the Hittites exact a punishung invasion of Akkad and Sumer, and the kassites takeover and rule over a stable Sumer as trade flourishes. The Egyptian conquest. It needs to be stated that roughly in the time of Hammurabi that trade goods from Indus appear in Egypt. It is probably at this time the hyksos begin trying to create trade colonies in the NE delta of the nile, probably unnoticed by the Egyptians who welcomed the trade in exotic goods. It needs to be stated that the dynasty 0 king of Egypt took control of S. canaan in the 4th millenium BCE but rapidly abandoned that control. As the Hyksos trade became more lucrative, their power grew and the territory under their influence grew, pushing control up the nile, the Hyksos were eventually forced back and Egypt realized the threat the levant posed and conquered up to Kadesh (North) and finally settled with the Hittites to a peaceful Late Bronze age occupation until the LBAC. These are the premonarchal conquests of the S. Levant. Many conquests, none Joshua.

[@TrevorLarezma-tk2iu]

The guy on the left really REALLY freaks me out.

[@FelixFortunaRex]

Many stories in new T are most likely not understood the same now as when written. Seems easy to change a teaching or parable to mean something a little different. In thousand yr will they think kings ruled this area cause writings of my daughter a princess. Or will they think she spoiled or will they think that’s part of her name. Seems easy to misunderstand without context. Seems also this done to bible.

[@Sportliveonline]

constellationpegasus ~~~Function of Story to create cultural memory Readers expected to enter into willing suspension of disbelief Exodus 13v8 in every generation each person to see himself Mark 11 15-19

[@Darisiabgal7573]

And so if the Song of the Sea is the original source lets test the hypothesis. I have left off all the praise text and left them in order, but I will rearrange. 
1 ....Both horse and driver
 he has hurled into the sea. 4 ....Pharaoh’s chariots and his army
 he has hurled into the sea....
....The best of Pharaoh’s officers
 are drowned in the Red Sea. (Yam-Sup) ...The deep waters have covered them;
 they sank to the depths like a stone... ...The enemy boasted,
 ‘I will pursue, I will overtake them.
I will divide the spoils;
 I will gorge myself on them.
I will draw my sword
 and my hand will destroy them.’ But you blew with your breath,
 and the sea covered them.
They sank like lead
 in the mighty waters. The chiefs of Edom will be terrified,
 the leaders of Moab will be seized with trembling,
the people of Canaan will melt away; You will bring them in and plant them
 on the mountain of your inheritance-
the place, Lord, you made for your dwelling,
 the sanctuary, Lord, your hands established. When Pharaoh's horses, chariots and horsemen went into the sea, the Lord brought the waters of the sea back over them, but the Israelites walked through the sea on dry ground. Then Miriam the prophet, Aaron's sister, took a timbrel in her hand, and all the women followed her, with timbrels and dancing. ____ So lets rearrange the bits. _____ The enemy boasted,
 ‘I will pursue, I will overtake them. I will divide the spoils; I will gorge myself on them.
I will draw my sword and my hand will destroy them.’ The Israelites walked through the sea on dry ground, but when Pharaoh's horses, chariots and horsemen went into the sea, [you blew with your breath,and the sea covered them] the waters of the sea were brought back over. Then Miriam the prophet, Aaron's sister, took a timbrel in her hand, and all the women followed her, with timbrels and dancing. The chiefs of Edom will be terrified,
 . . . . .the leaders of Moab will be seized with trembling, the people of Canaan will melt away. You will bring them in and plant them on the mountain of your inheritance-
the place, Lord, you made for your dwelling, the sanctuary, Lord, your hands established. Now we have the core of the story and lets dive into it, again when you look at these stories we have to look at the whole of what we think is trivial. The first element we should note is what I eliminated, alot of praise text to Yahweh. The second thing you should note is that the Edomites (Qos) already followed Yahweh, and at brief times the Moabites had their own version. But the third element, Miriam the prophet. And the need for song and dance as if in a frenzy. and we see that the story is frighten people. So lets look at these elements of the story. A people are running, they cross a grassy sea. A people, phariahs army in chase, the people get away, and the army disappears. Later a woman who has visions excites the women to song and dance as if to put them in a state of ecstasy. The purpose of the ritual probably meant to be held in the presence of men who trade to get the word out that the people of Yahweh are coming. "And all the women followed her" Half a million? Where does the song specify numbers. "The people of Canaan will melt away". Does that sound like conquest language? Like a man melts a womans heart. Remember Yahweh is the suiter and Israel is the bride. "You will come and plant them on the mountain of your inheritance" Where? The Hebrews have a bad habit of losing track of Holy mountains. And so this is a problem, because at the point the women are supposed to be singing, there is no specified mountain. Neither the mountain that had his burning bush or this mountain is specified. The original mountain could be the moses encounter mountain, which the people rejected in their wandering. Second, Edomites weren't conquered, they were generally allies. The Moabites weren't conquered. Why is the song talking about irrelevant people? And so we have to go back to what we do have. Kuntillet Ajrud inscription. Kuntillet Ajrud was one of several watering holes between the western peninsular Arabia (Aravah proper) and Edom and the Dead Sea. Two endpoints of the Shasu (Bedoin) economy. Some scholars think that Yathrib (9th century BCE) was part of that economy, and there were volcanos in the region that could fit as Moses encounter volcano. But it does not have to be, the insctiption refers to Yahweh and his Asherah of Tenmah, which means that the encounter mountain could have been to the south, and the best candiates are in Erithrea. In fact there is a story of a disgraced king that ran into the horn of Africa. And the reed sea they are refering to may have been a grass sea in the nile. So what we have here is, IMO, a cult of bedoin that spreads from SW Arabia nothward and into canaan. The story might have begun as a song of victory sang by a visier of the king, which as people moved and serially isolated from events became more legendary. The volcano disappears over the sea a place where pharoah is threat, the people look for a replacement mountain and chose a nearby location of Yathrib, and then move north to inhabit parts of Samaria and Judea in the late tenth and early ninth century. Prior to the maccabeans Yathib and a few local places were considered holy places, When Nebuchaddnezer (Not- it was Nabonidus) went mad (went to study sagecraft) he went to this part of Arabia. A finally point about this narrative, if moses wrote the torah, who wrote the song. Does moses have ecstatic women singing songs in his ear as he writes in the desert.

[@Darisiabgal7573]

Our enemies are wicked! "Now listen, their hands are destructive and their features are those of monkeys; (An Amorite) is one who eats what (the Moon-god) Nanna forbids and does not show reverence. They never stop roaming about ..., they are an abomination to the gods’ dwellings. Their ideas are confused; they cause only disturbance. (The Amorite) is clothed in sack-leather ... , lives in a tent, exposed to wind and rain, and cannot properly recite prayers. He lives in the mountains and ignores the places of gods, digs up truffles in the foothills, does not know how to bend the knee (in prayer), and eats raw flesh. He has no house during his life, and when he dies he will not be carried to a burial-place. " Hey if it worked for 2000 years the propoganda must be good. Note though the Amorites were instrumental in the recolonization of Mari and the conquest of Canaan. I think the point of this text is that good Sumerians and [Sigh] Akkadians don't marry amorites cause the are like your uncle who farts at the table and eats with his mouth wide open.

[@edwardmiessner6502]

34:41 "Could you tell us a bit about the Old Testament's violence and jenness side?" If I were to actually type out the G-word, the KZbin algorithm would censor my comment! And here our host Jacob Berman says it out loud with noooo problem. 😠

[@notsocrates9529]

Genesis.

[@Darisiabgal7573]

@@notsocrates9529lol.

[@YeshuaisnotJesus]

The Hebrew Bible is historical fiction and was never meant to be anything else.

[@jeffreyerwin3665]

LOL! The OT prophets predict a global nuclear war. And you think that such a disaster cannot happen? LOL!

[@mikekash6520]

What I don’t understand is that your guest is 100% speaking points against Judaism. He baptizes it as points against Christianity and it makes no sense why he scared and why he’s hiding behind the Christians who have become the punching bag another bad video thumbs down

[@edwardmiessner6502]

Well he is, but he was brought up Christian so he's pointing it against Christianity. Besides, a lot of Jews don't think this narrative reflects actual history and it's Israeli archaeologists who dug up the evidence!

[@notsocrates9529]

Hey, stop noticing patterns and reoccurring themes. It is just a coincidence you bigot.

[@jeffersonian000]

Try talking to a Jewish biblical scholar or a rabbi. You will find that their take on the Hebrew Bible (the Old Testament) is very different from the Christian take on the same scripture. Specifically, the books are out of order, passages within the books are out of order, missing, or new passages have been inserted. And within specific passages, words have been mistranslated. For them, it’s not just a history of their people, it’s filled with parables on what not to do, and how to fix things if you do something you’re not supposed to do. The way it’s been edited by Christians changes the story of a people to a story of villains, which is why Jews have been persecuted and murdered over the past 2000 years. TL;DR - the Christian version of the Old Testament is a lie, a lie that got Christians to murder over 6 million Jews.

[@draxthemsklonst]

Josh specifically points to fundamentalism as being problematic. That sentiment essentially goes for all Abrahamic religions. 28:04

[@Mikeatthenet]

@@jeffersonian000 I think you are mixing up several things. The Old Testament in VmChristan Bibels are based on Septuaginta and the Masoretic books, both translated by jews. The things written by christians are in the New Testament of the New Testament. Some of those texts has been accused for causing later antisemitism versus jews.