The Athletic’s David Aldridge: Why Jordan, Not LeBron, Is NBA’s G.O.A.T. | The Rich Eisen Show

[@admention8819]

And never once did MJ come out his mouth *pause* and proclaim himself as the greatest like LeBron did. His game has spoken for him.

[@thekingsplacegospeldjc4847]

Exactly....🙄

[@JS-fw9ot]

Nah he just released a self-indulgent, self produced 12 part puff piece on netflix with 5% new footage.

[@executiveblack403]

@@JS-fw9otAgain he never said it however LeBron has to pay the media to do it…pathetic.

[@zxcvb3772]

@@JS-fw9ot Self produced? 😂

[@JS-fw9ot]

@@executiveblack403 cool I don't remember the media scandal when that happened - can you send me a link to the clip? Why would Jordan say it when he can just hype a recycled documentary for 2 years.

[@peterkimani3501]

Honestly idk why people are so quick to put Bron over kareem… Kareem has more of an argument vs Jordan than Bron imo

[@sportstalkonly1442]

Lebron is better than both

[@hbksharpshooter]

Its marketing, Kareem isnt as popular as LeBron lol. Why Kobe for years was the surrogate in that argument against MJ. Kareem and Bill Russell easily round up the top 3 of all time in terms of NBA career accomplishments

[@John6-40]

​@@sportstalkonly1442Back up your argument, using stats and accolades. No conjecture or speculation. Go.

[@Donjasoni]

He is not. He’s not even the best at his position. I’d take Bird all day.

[@coryyoung1857]

0:47 ​@@sportstalkonly1442stop pretending to know basketball

[@lnss8775]

The NBA GOAT "debate" is a complete SHAM! There's NO DEBATE to be had! The reality is there's Michael Jordan then everybody else. A deaf person can see that Jordan is on a different level. A blind person can hear audio broadcast/commentary that Jordan is on a different level

[@sonnyallagonez5776]

Spittin Straight Facts Bro!

[@michaelhillary6810]

Amenos`

[@terrencehall7264]

😂😂😂

[@alfasiger4178]

It was nick wright who pushed the debate. And he did it for viewership.

[@jamesmuhoozi5812]

Jordan played bums.

[@onidtubes]

Go back to when he first retired. He had 3 titles, 3 finals.MVPs, 3 MVP's. Many believed he was the greatest or at least in the conversation, but there were some who believed that he did not do enough. He came came back, won 3 more championships, 2 MVP'S, should be 3 due to voter.fatigue.

[@it15]

I remember that he was considered by some pundits to be the greatest even before he won his first championship.

[@cbruffin]

3 back to backs in fact👍🏿📠

[@The_king567]

@@it15no he wasn’t you are a lier nobody thought that

[@dapper892]

Right. People just weren’t there. They lack context and perspective. You had to be there living it every day. You’re right. He was the GOAT to many even at Barcelona. Before the 3peat. What he did 96-98 just added to his lead.

[@jwilliams2006]

should have won MVP every single year he played.

[@craigslistreply6544]

Y'all love hypotheticals. If lebron and jordan played in the same era, lebron aint gonna have a chip. And we all know that's the truth.

[@Horndogthehorneddog]

Good lord I can’t imagine actually watching or understanding basketball and thinking this.

[@tonysanders1299]

Yup!!

[@mja4wp]

Jordan would walk into the room and LeBron would shrink to 6'1" just like everyone else but Bird.

[@Zett76]

Not so sure. Lebron would have joined MJ. 😄

[@Avarice-Zero]

​@@Zett76LOL! MJ would have sniffed that Front Runnin P early and got him up off his team! Haha

[@Max-Icare]

"No flop, no excuses just pure greatness. MJ GOAT!"

[@detectivemarkseven]

He didnt have his kid on the league though unlike Lebron, so score + 1 for Lebron in the goat debate.

[@Max-Icare]

@@detectivemarkseven Lol so tell me what does Brony did to his NBA debut? You call that GOAT hahaha

[@torajicburonson]

@@detectivemarkseventhat’s just nepotism at it’s worst. Jordan’s son has better college numbers than lebum jr.

[@tkbaku3036]

He literally used excuses all the time 😂😂😂 and he flipped

[@Darealkingrichard]

Plenty of excuses about his losing in the 80s & 2000s though,i guess we can IGNORE that. Bill Russell won more in a smaller elite league. The mj goat propaganda began in the late 80s,stern,nike,phil,krause,tex,dean smith,& pippen all make up MJ,thats NOT impressive! I grew up in a bulls house from 1990 on,my stepfather straight from Chicago,i know my 💩 kobe was better,played & BEAT better teams than mj & bron better than both cause he did was kobe did,more EFFECIENTLY. Mj never even passed Kareem or Wilt

[@neothagreat12]

Michael Jordan > lebron james This is not a conversation.

[@TheLionaaa]

Never been

[@TheCoachIce]

Lebron is better

[@verbalkint4052]

It really isn’t. It’s really only a debate among younger fans that didn’t live through the other eras and don’t realize the vast changes and differences in the game over that time. They lack perspective. And those old enough to have that perspective (that still argue LBJ) either have an agenda or just aren’t recognizing or remembering how different the game was prior to the early 2000’s. They can’t recognize that players from the 80’s and 90’s (and even earlier) could have enjoyed the same “longevity” if they played under the same set of circumstances (no hand-checking, less physical play and wear and tear, fewer back-to-backs, easier travel, load management, etc, etc). Same logic applies to the NFL and Tom Brady. Had Brady played back in the 80’s or 90’s the chances of him lasting until age 45 were much, much, much more slim. I’d argue “impossible”. Conversely, if Joe Montana and Larry Bird played today or at any point over the past 20 years - it’s almost a guarantee that their backs and bodies would have lasted years longer not having to endure the physical poundings that they took. It’s amazing to me how many so called hardcore and knowledgeable fans never consider the above.

[@neothagreat12]

@@TheCoachIce incorrect. Argue with your mirror.

[@TheCoachIce]

@neothagreat12 It's the truth, it hurts for Jordan fans

[@DrippingInStyle]

David said something something profound. Something i had never heard before. "You couldn't win back then being a nice guy, Larry wasn't a nice guy, magic wasn't a nice guy" He means on the court.

[@Zett76]

I was pretty stunned when a teammate of MJ (I forgot who) told a reporter: MJ said that we never, EVER let an opponent help us up. That's how serious it was, for him.

[@DrippingInStyle]

@@Zett76 That's crazy. It was different back then.

[@bondson0094]

Yes, cats in that era genuinely hated each other if they were not the same team.

[@DJC-YTVideos]

I've always said MJ sacrificed some of his own humanity to be great. Willingly sacrificed relationships. He was a grade A killer. He different.

[@Zett76]

@@DJC-YTVideos you should read books about psychopaths. 😀 they are not all "evil". A lot of them are, for example, surgeons. "Grade A killers" are most always on the spectrum. Fearless (like his clutch performance), willing to to do anything to achieve their goals. Then again, MJ proved to have empathy, e.g. when Kobe died. So: not a full-blown one. But for sure on the sprectrum.

[@williest1]

Zero people use LeBron as a verb. Jordan has transcended sports! His name is synonymous with excellence. MJ DOMINATED during his era. LeBron got OWNED multiple times, even when he switched teams and added more Hall of Famers😂

[@victorkong82]

Verb? I think you're using the wrong grammatical syntax to illustrate your point. Do you mean cognomen or epithet?

[@adidas20zero]

Oh say it again...

[@nassiglutt6587]

​@@victorkong82well I never saw a kid say you lebronzed that one. Seen many shoots and say "steeephhh" or made a turnaround fader saying "Jordan" 😂

[@EricK-ir8np]

MJ is the 🐐 emoji!!! He will ALWAYS BE THE 🐐

[@henzypenzy8216]

​@nassiglutt6587 you see a flop and say "Lebron"🤣🤣🤣

[@sl11tenderhand]

People talk about Jordan's mentality, will and the things he won when referencing why he is the goat but these things only meant something because Jordan was the BEST player ever. He was fundamentally elite in all aspects of the game in an all time context allied to this, he was probably the greatest athlete the game has ever seen he was faster than pretty much everyone, could jump higher (allowing him to adjust his shot choice in midair), could catch and manipulate a ball with one hand even during contact and his reactions, body control and hand eye coordination were inhumane. There are things Jordan did on the court that I haven't been replicated 30 years after he retired by anyone. Lebron may have a case for being the GOAT but there isn't a single person that has watched them both who can legitimately claim Lebron is BETTER at basketball .

[@Bubjohnson]

🎯🎯

[@businesspartners619]

The most fundamental and the most spectacular, the most athletic and the most aesthetic, the greatest offensive player as well as the greatest defensive player when he had to be, the most beautiful game and the most vicious game, the greatest will with the greatest skill, the greatest floor game and the greatest air game,, the greatest body control with the greatest leaping package with the greatest hands. And he looks the part - he looks like the goat, talks like the goat, Walks Like The goat and moves like the goat and he doesn't have to say a damn thing and it makes sense he's never on social media because that's for regular humans. He is the obvious answer and the easiest answer in all of sport. I was truly blessed to be born at the perfect time to witness it all. I've never seen anything like and I never will. There's only one other athlete who was so far above everybody else who ironically dominated at the same time where 30 years later only the best Pros could even duplicate some of his stuff. The difference is that he was in an extreme individual sport fittingly whereas MJ was an extreme sport artist on a team sport. That man is Rodney Mullen and he is the only other perfected athlete I know in a sport who never lost who nobody can touch to this day who was so good he really shouldn't have existed just like MJ. For major team sports only Gretzky has the complete ridiculous dominance over all his peers to be put in Jordan's level. End of list.

[@nydibs]

Lebron was athletic, and stronger than most, but he didnt have the skillset. Lebrons game is overhyped and overrated, and it is not visually aesthetic like MJs was

[@gregrizzo8054]

@@businesspartners619 Jordan lost a lot early in his career when he was dominant and winning scoring titles. He just never lost when he made the Finals. Bonds was as dominant in baseball as Jordan was in Basketball.

[@SeanDiego]

Jordan def is an otherworldly athlete, BUT Wilt was an absolute freak of nature! Purely talent and natural abilities only

[@videozz2012]

How is LeFraud better than Kobe? Or Kareem? LeFraud is the only player in the goat conversation who didn't play defense for half of his career

[@spokoman23]

He's not in top 10, or at least not in real hoopers list

[@The_king567]

You can hate him all you want LeBron is better than Kobe and Kareem

[@keithhackett5103]

It was a brillilant piece of marketing by Clutch Sports. Create and push the narrative that the choice is between Lebron and Jordan, and suddenly Lebron jumps over at least a half a dozen players that were better than him.

[@videozz2012]

@ How? LeFraud can't shoot free throws, LeFraud lost 6 finals, LeFraud got out played but freaking Jason Terry in the Finals, etc, etc... lol Wtf are you talking about? Kobe has 5 championships, Kobe shot free throws very well, Kobe scored 81 points in a game. Kareem has 6 MVP's, Kareem won 6 championships, etc, etc.. Stop 🥩 riding

[@richmahogany1]

skapattack burner account?

[@arthurreyes2632]

NOBODY with a losing finals record can be considered the Goat.

[@quiara25]

Lazy take my guy!!! 😮

[@jermo1213]

​@@quiara25no it's not. Saying my guy is lame as hell too, while leaving emojis.

[@nassiglutt6587]

​@@quiara25how? And being lazy on defense is never goat traits

[@AmronMitchell]

Exactly. It’s really that simple too.

[@TheCoachIce]

Lebron lost in the finals, Jordan got swept in the first round twice that's what's up

[@John6-40]

You can argue Jordan over LeBron using just stats. You can argue Jordan over LeBron using just accolades. You can argue Jordan over LeBron using only impact. The only argument LeBron has is longevity.

[@viralsports4258]

Not true.

[@rackball5858]

@@viralsports4258Very true

[@anthonyhernandez2111]

​@@viralsports4258tnen state your opinion?

[@anthonyhernandez2111]

Jordan basically has more accolades and Championships in just 14 full seasons and Lebron still playing 22 seasons..

[@IamHailey8]

​@viralsports4258 very convincing argument.

[@xl8751]

Lebron is great, has great career stats. I’m going to pick Michael Jordan, Larry Bird, and some others before him.

[@viralsports4258]

Larry Bird before LeBron James...lol

[@John6-40]

​@viralsports4258 3 straight MVP's, 3x champ without moving teams, way better shooter than LeBron. Better rebounder. Arguably a better passer. Never took defense off. 100x more clutch. Yes. Give me prime Bird over prime LeBron.

[@xl8751]

@ easily, Larry bird’s play is more reliable and he thrives under pressure.

[@justinsalzl1517]

You gotta remember, this era isn’t about winning, or actual substance. It’s about style and looking good.

[@TheLionaaa]

Yep

[@just_jeff4839]

True test of who the Greatest Basketball player ever is they will never refer to another "great" in another sport, field, segment, position, etc. as the "LeBron James" of that thing. When you are GREAT, when you are amazing, when you are untouched at the thing you do, no matter what it is... you are referred to as the "Michael Jordan" of that thing.

[@TheDocmike23]

👏👏👏

[@Zett76]

It's been almost 30 years (since the Bulls era). Which other athlete from that time is still the reference point number one? Simply amazing.

[@ElectricKnight.]

That's a great observation! Made me think, the only other names, from other sports, that I've heard used that way are Babe Ruth and Gretzky. That's some lasting power for Ruth. So long as there are people left, I think Jordan will last as long, and longer.

[@Zett76]

@@ElectricKnight. I was teaching 16-yo's, the other day, here in Europe. Lebron was brought up by one of the boys. Two or three girls: who's this? Then I asked about MJ. Of course they knew Michael Jordan. 😀

[@ricosauve5]

Michael was so great, him making a game winner or a clutch shot down the stretch didn't surprise us. Him missing did. Thats the level of greatness he reached. We expected the ball to go in.

[@mtraiders735]

We KNEW it was going in.

[@BixBy-u5w]

Are we really trying to debate over a player who lost on every level of basketball(Fiba, Olympics, NBA) to a player who never lost a single finals game/series(NCAA, Fiba, Olympics, NBA) throughout his career?

[@IamHailey8]

I remember growing up we would wake up in the middle of the night to watch michael play ( not american). It was something you couldn't miss you had to see it. It was mesmerizing. There's nobody waking up in the middle of the night to see Lebron play.I can guarantee you that.

[@Timage74]

Same here. I‘m from Switzerland. We got up 2am to watch him play for many many years. Le Bron who?

[@GoGetYourShinebox]

That’s because MJ had a far more entertaining style and the NBA was better to watch in general

[@The_king567]

@@GoGetYourShineboxwrong

[@GoGetYourShinebox]

@@The_king567 MJ being more entertaining than Bron I bet is a popular opinion. As for the NBA being better before, ratings prove this. More eyes were on basketball in the 90s on a global level than ever before, MJ was must watch

[@The_king567]

@ not really athlete gets better every generation LeBron is more athletic than what Jordan was. That’s not crazy to say because athletes are better now than what they were before

[@inefekt]

Pose this question to LeBraon fans: "Tell me exactly why LeBron James is the greatest player of all time?" 40k/11k/11k and the scoring title is all they got. Literally the only thing LeBron has over MJ are longevity stats. What the hell did those stats do for his teams? Nothing. No team benefits from a player's career total stats, never have and never will....especially when those stats are shared among multiple teams. They literally mean nothing and contribute nothing towards winning. The only time people use career totals for a player's GOAT candidacy has been with LeBron stans. Didn't do it with Kareem. Never did it with Wilt despite his ridiculous rebounding numbers to go with his 30k++ points. Ya'll stans only started using them because they are literally the only thing he has over Jordan. Greatness is about winning, in terms of both personal achievements and, in terms of team sports, what a player did that contributed to his team's success. The stats which contribute to winning are per game or seasonal stats. Not a single team in NBA history won a championship because their best player passed some random career milestone....plenty of teams have won championships because they had the best player that season putting up the best stats on a per game basis. They are far more important because they contribute to winning and winning is the single main reason why every damn pro sporting league on this planet exists. Players want to win championships, MVPs and other major awards and fans want to see their teams and players win these awards. It is the SINGLE major reason sports exist. If you cannot understand this simple concept then you just do not understand sport. Maybe take up reading? So with that said, let's see how the two players compare when it comes to winning and their personal contribution to team winning... We'll start with those stats. These are the per game box score and advanced stats where Jordan leads LeBron over their respective careers: In the regular season, Jordan has: Higher PPG (#1 all time) Higher ORPG Higher SPG Higher BPG Less TOPG Higher PER (#1 all time) Higher BPM (#1 all time) Higher WS/48 (#1 all time) Higher VORP/48 (#1 all time) Higher RAPTOR (#1 all time) Higher WAR (#1 all time) Playoffs: Higher PPG (#1 all time) Higher ORPG Higher SPG Less TOPG Higher PER (#1 all time) Higher BPM (#1 all time) Higher WS/48 (#1 all time) Higher VORP/48 (#1 all time) Higher RAPTOR (#1 all time) Higher WAR (#1 all time) Compared to LeBron who has: Regular Season: Higher DRPG Higher APG Playoffs: Higher DRPG Higher APG Higher BPG Not looking good for your boy so far....not good at all. Now it's not good putting up great stats if you aren't putting up _league leading_ stats. Because, as I've already said, winning teams often have the best player in the league. So how many times has Jordan led the league in a major box score stat? 27 times. How many times has he led the league in one of the major advanced metrics? 61 times. That's 88 times in total and he did that in just 11 full, eligible seasons. Again, #1 all time. How about LeBron? He's led the league in a major box score stat: 4 times (ouch) And in a major advanced metric: 43 times. That's 47 times in total. But he's also played 21 full, eligible seasons. That's an average of 2.2 times per season. That's actually pretty good, every single year leading the league in more than two statistical categories. Jordan, when including his two Wizards seasons, averaged 6.8 times per season. Again, #1 all time. HOLY DAMN HELL!!!! That is actually insane. If you actually take off your blinders and think objectively, you have to see just how much more impressive Jordan has been than LeBron. And we haven't even gotten to the most important aspect of all.....what did they both _actually_ win? We can talk about their contributions to winning from a statistical standpoint but what's more important is their actual results and those come in the form of accolades ie every seasonal award the NBA bestows upon its players, from championships to MVPs to All NBA etc. The whole kit and kaboodle. We'll start with LeBron... In his 21 season career he has won a total of 65 official NBA accolades (#3 all time). Among those accolades we can filter out the less important ones just in case you think those don't count. Looking at just the big four accolades (rings, MVP, FMVP, DPOY) we see that LeBron has so far put 12 of those on his resume (#4 all time). Jordan had 13 eligible seasons to collect these same accolades, that's significantly less time than LeBron has enjoyed. So how did he go? He won a total of 70 official NBA accolades (#1 all time). But in just 11 seasons with the Bulls he won 68 of those. Which means he won more than LeBron has won _in almost TWICE the time._ He also picked up 18 of the big four accolades (#1 all time). What about 1st Team All NBA and All Defense? These pretty much signify that a player is one of the top five players or defenders in the entire league. The best of the best. LeBron has a combined 18 of these (equal #3 all time). Jordan, despite playing so much less, still collected 19 of them (#2 all time). So in terms of winning, Jordan absolutely wipes the floor with LeBron, putting more on his resume than LeBron has mananged despite playing so much more. "But LeBron is 39yo and still among the best players in the league!" Yes he is. But again, what has it done for his career except pad his career total stats? Do you know the last time Lebron won and MVP? 28 years of age. Do you know the last time he made and All Defense team? 29 years of age. From age 30 to now he has two rings, two Finals MVPs, one assist title and five 1st Team All NBA nominations. He's led the league in a box score or advanced metric just _twice_ in all those years. From age 30 to his retirement Jordan won four rings, four Finals MVPs, two MVPs, four 1st Team All NBA, four 1st Team All Defense & four scoring titles. He led the league in a box score or advanced metric 29 times. To summarise, from age 30: LeBron - 10 x major accolades 2 x statistical leader Jordan - 22 x major accolades 29 x statistical leader *YOU NEED TO BE BLIND FREDDY TO NOT SEE THAT JORDAN IS A FAR GREATER PLAYER!* Seriously, what the hell is going on inside the heads of you LeBron stans? How is it possible to be so objectively wrong about something? The only parallel I can draw are Flat Earthers....a group of people so confidently wrong.

[@officialtbhoops]

LeBron is top 10 all time in every major category (better all around). Jordan is only in the top 10 for scoring and steals. LeBron is also the only player in HISTORY to lead both teams in every major category (pts, rebs, assts, steals, blocks) in the Finals while completing the 3-1 comeback against the 73-9 Warriors. Jordan never sniffed a feat like that. His finals opponents were nowhere close to LeBron’s. LeBron gave the Spurs and Warriors dynasties their only losses……

[@mtraiders735]

@@officialtbhoops MJ never had to, he was that good that he would never be behind in a Finals. GTFOH.

[@nolo677]

The fact that you took this much time to type all of that is so sad lmao

[@inefekt]

@@nolo677 😆😅🤣 Kids these days can't even read a paragraph without getting bored. Whatever, the _truly_ sad part is that's the only comeback you have from facts being thrown into your face. You have no argument against anything I wrote so instead you simply choose to insult me. You just got destroyed. Take it like a man and move on...

[@samuellee1515]

@@officialtbhoops Jordan had to play 3 years of college ball. 4 years in retirement, LeBron's stats are better only because of that you can't figure that out?

[@shermre5184]

Salute to the godfather David Aldridge! Always classy, professional, and thorough....

[@ajfrancisco7726]

When I injured my foot playing basketball, the medic was suppose to cut my shoes, i was wearing a Jordan 34, they hesitated and said, "He's wearing a Jordan don't cut his shoes".. that's how people respect him here in the Philippines 😂😂 GOAT

[@jtremaine23]

LOL

[@cappriment]

Thank you for sharing, that's a great story!

[@munoken]

None of David's case info for Lebron has any merit nor Kareem, No one compares TO AIR JORDAN PERIOD

[@Writer341]

@@munoken Jordan is the goat. But, there was a person who resembled him and was kind of close. RIP KOBE

[@munoken]

@Writer341 everyone knows Kobe but he only resembled a facet of Air Jordan's game not alll of it

[@99alfailiwaqain51]

Peace! I have Kareem ranked over Jordan! If I had to choose between the 2 I take Kareem…I also take Wilt and Russell over Jordan..

[@catherinewilliams9680]

The reason why Jordan is the GOAT is that he could play in every era from the 60s to today and would still be as dominating. I don't think LeBron would be as successful during the 80s or even during the 90s.

[@semionjohnson1351]

I think LeBron would be great in any era he is one of the greatest basketball players of all time

[@ChrisH421]

​@@semionjohnson1351I agree, I firmly believe Jordan is the GOAT but there is no reason LeBron's game wouldn't translate to a different era.

[@hainavidotcom]

I agree, LeBron's game the way it is now and even before would not be as effective,. he would have to change his game. There is no resistance now. Back in the day, you not coming in the lane pushing off with a freebie. You will get gut-checked and chin-checked, get your head knocked off against the tougher teams like the Knicks, Pistons, Bucks, Celtics, lakers, The Bulls,and Hawks. Not by one player either! all those teams had enforcers back then. Now they are extinct! soft era today. Jordan's game wouldn't need to change at all. he can still be him and DOMINATE AS THE GOAT. That's the difference. LBJ is not worthy of a top 10 spot. too many flaws on and off the court.

[@georgiosyiannakou5537]

Your opinion. All great players would be great in a different era because of the work ethic, certain skills and athleticism.

[@2robjenkins]

Lebron in the illegal defense era would have destroyed everyone.

[@Top_o_da_foodDChain]

Yes, Balco is a tremendous marvel. What it can do to an old man’s body is incredible.

[@keithhackett5103]

Imagine if the NBA started testing for EPO and HGH.

[@angelaw9476]

@Top_o_da_foodDChain Apparently drugs have that exact same effect on your brain. Stop hating because you were never good enough to beat LeBron 😭

[@Giants4641]

Yes man. Noone wants to talk about lebron and his wife case with PEDs.

[@kleitosaliagas5668]

​@@angelaw9476 I'm sorry, who do you think the op is that he would ever think he is good enough to beat Lebron?

[@Zett76]

@@angelaw9476 I see only one hater here. The one who calls other haters, for NO reason. And yes, PEDs DO effect the brain. And the jawline. (hence the beard)

[@John6-40]

This is only a conversation because LeBron fans are 14 years old on average, and older people get triggered by stupidity...and saying LeBron is better than Jordan is pure stupidity. There is no metric by which LeBron is better. Jordan played 7 fewer years than LeBron, yet has: 2 more championships 2 more Finals MVP's 1 more league MVP 1 more DPOY 3 more all-defense teams 9 more scoring titles 3 more steals titles That is literally a HOF resume.

[@sportstalkonly1442]

so for lebron to be better he has to do the exact same thing jordan did?

[@sportstalkonly1442]

#1 in regular season points #1 all time allstar points #1 in playoff points #1 in playoff steals #1 in playoff field goals #1 in playoff fts #1 in playoff games #1 in playoff minutes #1 in playoff wins (183) #1 in playoff series wins (41) #1 in playoff defensive rebounds #1 in playoff win shares #1 in playoff vorp #1 in playoff ows #1 in all nba teams #1 in allstar selections # 1 in all nba first team selections (13) #1 in mvp shares #1 in career assists by a forward #1 in career apg by a forward #1 in player of the week awards #1 in player of the month award #1 in finals triple doubles #1 in playoff buzzer beaters (5) #1 in single season bpm in the playoffs (17.53) #1 in single season playoff obpm #1 in playoff plus minus #1 in clutch shots #1 in playoff clutch shots # 1 in gamescore in the nba finals #2 in regular season field goals #2 in playoff assists #2 in playoff 3pm #2 in playoff triple doubles #2 in finals mvps #2 in finals points #3 in bpm #3 in playoff bpm #3 in obpm #3 in playoff obpm #3 in finals assists #3 in finals field goals made #4 in finals rebounds #4 in finals double doubles #4 in all time freethrows #5 in finals rebounds #5 in all time triple doubles #5 in dunks #6 in playoff double doubles #6 in playoff ppg #7 all time in ppg average #8 in all time 3pm #8 in all time steals #10 in playoff blocks #10 in regular season double doubles #10 in defensive rebounds all time Holds 4 of the top 10 gamescore in the nba finals More finals appearances than 27 different franchises Swept the most best of 12 series (7) Only player top 10 in 11 different categories Only player top 10 in every playoff stat Only player top 100 in every stat Only player with 3 finals mvps on 3 different teams Won 20 playoff series without a top 75 teammate Has the same amount of first team all nba selections as the next 3 best players of his generation #1 in 28 stats #1 in 13 playoff stats #2 in 4 playoff stats #3 in 2 playoff stats #4 in 2 playoff stats #6 in 1 playoff stat #10 in 1 playoff staf #2 in 7 stats #3 in 2 stats #4 in 3 stats #5 in 3 stats #6 in 2 stats #7 in 1 stat #8 in 2 stats #10 in 3 stats Top 10 in 51 stats Only player to lead both teams and all players in everthing in any playoff series Only player to be listed at all 5 positions Only player to be top 5-10 in points and assists in the regular season and playoffs One of five players in nba history to lead his team in every statistical category in the regular season. One of 7 players in nba history to win both a scoring title and an assist title. Has led his team in points, rebounds and assists 48 times in the playoffs (the next closes is bird with 13) Has led his team in points, rebounds, and assists in the nba finals 7 times Most 25ppg, 5apg, 5rpg seasons: 20 Most consecutive double-digit games: 1,100+ Only player top 10 in points, assists and steals Only player with 500 double doubles and 100 triple doubles Only non guard top 26 in apg Only forward top 49 in apg Highest scoring average for 3 different franchises One of three players to win finals mvps on more than one team His Resume Reads: 40k points 11k rebounds 11k assists 4 mvps 4 championships 4 finals mvps 3 Finals mvps on 3 different teams 41 playoff series wins 183 playoff wins 20 all nba teams 20 allstar selections 6 all defensive teams 13 first team all nba selections Beat a 73 win team Beat a spurs team with 4 hof 3 time all-star game mvp IST Championship IST MVP Olympic MVP 41 playoff series wins (most in nba history) Most playoff wins Most playoff buzzer beaters Most clutch shots in the playoffs 40 player of the month awards 68 player of the week awards 20 seasons of averaging 25 ppg 27, 7 and 7 for a 21 year career Averaged 30, 8 and 6 in year 19 Assist leader in 2020 Youngest player TO BE SELECTED #1 OVERALL TO WIN ROOKIE OF THE YEAR TO SCORE 30+ POINTS IN A GAME TO SCORE 40+ POINTS IN A GAME TO SCORE 45+ POINTS IN A PLAYOFF GAME TO RECORD A TRIPLE-DOUBLE IN A FINALS SERIES. TO HIT A GAME-WINNER IN A PLAYOFF GAME TO AVERAGE AT LEAST 30 PPG IN A SINGLE SEASON TO AVERAGE AT LEAST 30 PPG IN MULTIPLE SEASONS TO AVERAGE AT LEAST 30 PPG IN A PLAYOFF SERIES TO SCORE 2,000 POINTS IN A SINGLE SEASON TO BE AWARDED ALL-NBA HONORS TO BE NAMED ALL-NBA FIRST TEAM TO WIN ALL-STAR GAME MVP TO LEAD THE LEAGUE IN ALL-STAR VOTING TO WIN MVP 4 TIMES TO REACH EVERY 1,000 POINT MILESTONE FROM 1,000 TO 35,000 TO REACH EVERY 1,000 POINT PLAYOFF MILESTONE FROM 4,000 TO 7,000 Lebron in his 30s- 2000s- - 5x All-Star 5x All-NBA ROTY - MVP All-Defense Gold, bronze medal 2010s 10x All-Star 10x All-NBA 3X MVP 3x FMVP 4x All-Defense Gold medal 2020s 5x All-Star 5x All-NBA FMVP Gold medal 1. 40,000 REGULAR SEASON POINTS 2. 8,000 POSTSEASON POINTS 3. 106 TRLDBLS AND 573 DBLDBLS 4. 2,275 STEALS AND 1,111 BLOCKS 5. TOP 5 IN POINTS AND ASSISTS IN THE REGULAR SEASON AND THE POSTSEASON. 6. #1 IN POSTSEASON D. REBS AND TOP 10 IN THE REGULAR SEASON. 7. #1 IN POSTSEASON STEALS AND TOP 10 IN THE REGULAR SEASON. 8. 3 F.MVPS WITH 3 DIFFERENT TEAMS. 9. #1 IN OWS IN THE REGULAR SEASON AND POSTSEASON. 10. 13 ALL NBA 1ST TEAMS 11. TOP 10 IN THE 5 MAJOR STATISTICAL CATEGORIES IN THE POSTSEASON. 12. THE MOST POINTS GENERATED OF ALL TIME IN THE REGULAR SEASON AND POSTSEASON. 13. ONLY PLAYER WITH 30K PTS, 10K ASTS, AND 10K REBS. 14. MOST CONSECUTIVE 25PPG SEASONS. 15. YOUNGEST AND OLDEST PLAYER TO AVERAGE 30PPG. 16. #1 IN VORP IN THE REGULAR SEASON AND POSTSEASON 17. MOST ALL STAR SELECTIONS 18. ONLY PLAYER TOP 5 IN TRLDBLS AND DBLDBLS IN THE POSTSEASON. 19. MOST CONSECUTIVE DOUBLE-DIGIT GAMES IN THE REGULAR SEASON 20. ONLY PLAYER TO SCORE 40PTS AGAINST EVERY NBA TEAM. 21. YOUNGEST PLAYER TO HAVE 4 REGULAR SEASON MVPS 22. YOUNGEST PLAYER TO HAVE 10 ALL NBA 1ST TEAMS. 23. YOUNGEST PLAYER TO EVERY 1,000PT TO 39,000PT MILESTONE. 24. YOUNGEST PLAYER TO SCORE 40PTS IN AN NBA GAME. 25. MOST 30PT GAMES IN THE POSTSEASON.

[@jetko43]

I let myself get into a conversation with a lebron fan and it was like arguing with a teenager

[@jetko43]

​@@sportstalkonly1442 he was in the same situation Jordan was (finals) and didn't perform like Jordan.

[@jetko43]

Lebron is no question a Hall of Famer just not the Goat.

[@ashtonjackfanny]

Jordan is considered the goat because he literally changed how people played the game aesthetically. His style of play pushed the game forward. Jordan changed the way players looked when they dunked the Ball. Jordan fundamentally changed the way players looked when they would jumped period. Jordan changed the way players looked when they took jump shots. Jordan changed the way players his size and up dribbled the basketball. People don't understand how the game looked before he came and after he retired.

[@jasonjackson33]

You’re confusing Michael Jordan with Dr J.

[@DEFKNIGHT]

​@@jasonjackson33Dr J was a huge influence on the game indeed. But MJ was another level. I remember them both, DR J was my idol. But Jordan just looked and played differently. It wasn't just the mentality Jordan had, he was an Assassin! But it's what that looked like in action for all to see. The Grace, the Speed, the Power, the Skill, Technique, the Relentlessness, the Pure Determination and then the Leadership. It's what all of that looked like when balled up into an Apex Predators body in his prime. We'll never see it again. You got close with Kobe, but only Close.

[@jasonjackson33]

@@DEFKNIGHT He didn't change the way basketball was played. Dr J popularized above the rim play. Michael Jordan did nothing original.

[@eddywiyana5524]

I was, and still is a die hard Celtics fan since Larry Legend was drafted. I got scared whenever Jordan played the Celts, even in his early years when he had not proven much. None of other players scared me, including Bron. I imagined how players felt playing against MJ. The word scared might also play a part, which is not the case for Bron

[@Maga_Favorite_Son]

Bron is not even over Kobe

[@moteknows8134]

16-6 vs Kobe. 4mvp to 1, 4rmvp to 2. try again

[@Writer341]

@@moteknows8134you have to remember that LeBron had to leave teams to team up with others. Please try again. Jordan and Kobe never did that. REAL ATHLETES DO NOT BELIEVE IN THE IF YOU CANT BEAT THEM JOIN THEM MENTALITY. TRY AGAIN 😂

[@moteknows8134]

@Writer341 You want Lebron to win with Mo Williams as his best teammate? While Kobe has Gasol, Bynum, Odom, Ariza then Artest with Phil Jackson as coach. Michael had Pippen and Grant then Rodman, Kukoc the best european player that time. Lebron took the garbage 2007 and 2018 to the finals. Jordan can't sniff the second round without Pippen. Bron led those 3 teams as the best player. MJ played with the Wizards and destroy the growth of Stackhouse and Kwame Brown, it's documented during the interview with Stackhouse. If MJ was goat, he should've at least make the playoffs with the Wizards. Lebron led team USA in the Olympics, even won tournament MVP! Try again Jordanites, I will educate you with facts everytime! Btw, MJ inflated his stats, so he can receive awards, it's also documented. What a shame!!! 😂😂😂

[@Writer341]

@ my point is this. Great players stay on their team and get help to join them. Great players do not LEAVE their team to join other great players. Mike said he never had any of those others guys numbers till be stopped playing. Imagine Mike saying I have to join Detroit because I can’t beat them. Or Patrick Ewing saying I have to join the bulls because I can’t beat them. Those guys didn’t do that. They stayed on their team and help came to them. Today’s game is bad because everyone wants to be a super team. It hurts the league and it hurts the teams. The competition is gone when the best players all decide to join forces. Kobe never thought to do that. he had other good players come to him. Lebron is good don’t get me wrong but his career will have some hits because he decided to join super teams over and over and over again. Mike never did that. Kobe never did that. Many of the other greats never did that. Look at Durant. He knew that he was POSSIBLY on his way of being on the list of great players that never won. So what did he do ??? He JOINED the team that beat him. 🤦🏿‍♂️🤦🏿‍♂️🤦🏿‍♂️🤦🏿‍♂️🤦🏿‍♂️🤦🏿‍♂️🤦🏿‍♂️🤦🏿‍♂️🤦🏿‍♂️🤦🏿‍♂️🤦🏿‍♂️🤦🏿‍♂️

[@moteknows8134]

@Writer341 Why you can't answer my simple question, how come MJ was a second round virgin before and after Pippen???? Why????? 😂😂😂

[@Serching4JerryGarcia]

Jordan is the GOAT because he had the best of both worlds when you compare him to Wilt and Russell/Kareem. Like Wilt Chamberlain, Jordan had great individual dominance but he didn’t just do it in the regular season but the playoffs as well. Wilt Chamberlain’s playoff numbers are underwhelming. Now like Bill Russell and Kareem, Jordan was part of championship dynasties and he was the clear cut number one guy on all those Bulls title teams, he was the driving force. That was not always the case with Bill Russell and Kareem especially since Russell’s career average in the playoffs is 16ppg.

[@dsfddsgh]

Russell was still the driving force on those Celtic teams but he did it with his dominate rebounding and defense.

[@Norma1250]

Exactly 💯

[@Serching4JerryGarcia]

@@dsfddsgh Russell was a great leader but he wasn’t always the undisputed best player on those championship teams and like I said he only averaged 16ppg in the playoffs and 15ppg for the regular season. It takes more than that if you want to be considered the greatest to ever play the game.

[@99alfailiwaqain51]

@@Serching4JerryGarcia Bill Russell has an excellent case for #1! Put up his rebound and block shot numbers…put up his mpg numbers also..

[@Serching4JerryGarcia]

@@99alfailiwaqain51 16 points per game in the playoffs and 15 points per game in the regular season for his career and he played in a time when the team who won the championship got the number 1 pick in the draft. It takes more than just rebounds and defense if that was the case then Dennis Rodman could be the GOAT.

[@simplysimple7628]

Not only Michael’s will and drive to win, but his insanely smooth and creative style of play. Just otherworldly talent. 1/1. Never had the human species seen such a guy like him. Not even today. His motor was so dam efficient and reliable. Today’s media, is built and based upon NARRATIVES. Especially with how Mike blew up the sport. What you see and hear with all this ridiculous and stupid “GOAT” debate, you are witnessing a DESPERATE attempt to try and get back the days of pure gold when GREATNESS was at its peak. And that was the 80’s and 90’s. With how spoiled and entitled these kids are today, we will never ever witness another MJ. Not in our lifetimes. Unless there is a massive social reset. No social media, no internet, less envious and video game playing people. That’s what is needed. MJ and those dudes then were straight up basketball players. They concentrated on playing. No technological distractions. Miss those days maaaan😔🙏🏼

[@Zett76]

According to his peers, he didn't even sleep as much as the average guy...

[@iTuber012]

... He's not #2 all time.... Respectfully he's not even close to mj

[@Klegend1750]

Yes he is #2 all time

[@kself8879]

Fully agree. Bron is the man. His longevity and dominance has been phenomenal. But Jordan is the GOAT: *He never lost in the Finals. A perfect 6-0. *He never went to a Finals game 7. *Only non-center/player under 6'10 to win DPOY and MVP at the same time. *He stopped EVERY great player in his era from winning a chip. No one else got a ring when he was on his run. *When he was on his run, no one could stop him and he did not lose. *He hasn't played an NBA game in 20 years, but there are 10 YOs who wore Jordans to school today... Sadly, there isn't a metric in Bron or anyone else's favor that's more important than any of that, and I'm a Lakers fan. Kobe and Magic are my favorite players. But Jordan is the GOAT.

[@malikdavis4457]

He didn't play no one in the finals........... he was always favorite to win so the competition wasn't there

[@kself8879]

@@malikdavis4457 Sir, that's a wild take. He beat endless HOFers, Dream Teamers, and All Stars. He beat Charles Barkley, Karl Malone, John Stockton, Magic Johnson, Patrick Ewing, Gary Payton, Shawn Kemp, Clyde Drexler, Isaiah Thomas, and Reggie Miller, among others. Most of those guys are top 20 all time, and NONE of them ate when MJ was on.

[@richardturner1063]

Why Lebron is better than Jordan. The 🐐BAHHHHHH 1 - Because he won a playoff series without a HOF teammate. 1a - He beat a Superteam (3 HOF’s and a HOF coach) in a playoff series. 2 - 1 had 10 scoring titles, taking 30 shots per game (Lebron passed him in total FGA in year 20?), and 1 has scored 40,000 points and is 4th all time in Assists, passing Magic Johnson. 3 - He never had a teammate who leads him, ALL TIME in Assists, Rebounds, Blocks, 3 pointers and top 10 with in him Steals 3a - He never had a teammate who leads him , ALL TIME PLAYOFFS in, Assists, Rebounds, Blocks and Steals. 4 - 6 final losses EXCUSES in context. Got his team to the finals at 22 without a HOF teammate. 2007 Played worst superstar series ever, lost to Mavs who swept the defending champs. 2011 Been to 3 straight finals curse in the 4th year egs Piston, Bulls, Lakers, Heat. 2014 Lost his 2 starters to injuries. 2015 Scared the last 3 MVPs (2014,15,16) to join together onto a 73 win team. TALK ABOUT FEAR 2017/18 5 - 6’9’ 260+ he’s Bigger, Stronger, Faster, more Durable and Versatile. Can play 4 positions. 6 - He led both teams in a Playoff Final in Points, Assists, Rebounds, Blocks and Steals. TWICE. 7 - His teammates including the ones that got traded ALWAYS got paid e.g timothy mosdgov, pippen. 8 - Played with his son , and 1st to make a billion whilst playing. 9 - Only player top 100 in 6 catagories ALL TIME - Points, Assists, Rebounds, Blocks and Steals, 3 pointers made. 10 - He played 20 years at the top without breaks, getting to Conf finals in 20th, and playoffs 21st . Quiz What does the 2007 Pistons have that non off Jordans finals opponents have?

[@kself8879]

@@richardturner1063 All valid points. It depends on what's important to you. Because none of that makes a stronger case IMO than Jordan's utter dominance in a shorter window, during a tougher time in the NBA, on one team, with one coach, with far less resources and HOF players, and his global impact on the culture and sport. That said, I still think LBJ is the man! An amazing human being and a truly gifted basketball player. No hate at all.

[@BalloonFight]

@@richardturner1063 Lmaoooo. Dude Lebron literally lost as the FAVORITES to the Mavs, when Lebron was the best player in the world, and then had the hardest choke in the history of the league. That was AFTER he joined Dwade and Bosh, joked that they were going to get 7 or 8 chips, then Jason Terry came in. Jason Terry in that series scored more points than Lebron and played 60 less minutes than Lebron. Sixty. 60. You literally just added playing with his son as a point, ahahahahahahahahahhaaha, my god. Lebron isn't better than Kobe or Kareem or Bird, let alone the actual best ever

[@princellasmith7562]

6:03 😂😂😂 Bruh!!!! Perfect way to describe Michael Jordan!!!! 😂😂😂😂😂😂

[@FrankenstratAssassin]

Anyone who truly believes LeBron "King" James is the GOAT is utterly delusional. I'm going to offer indisputable genuine facts of MJ super feats that no one will ever come close to. Let's end this absurd debate right now. Ready? Hope all of you are sitting down and absorb all of this: Forget all the real obvious things that puts MJ above LeBron, Kobe and others (to which very few are really able to reasonably dispute) but there are other things that no one ever brings up to further separate Jordan's greatness far away from the pack: - MJ NEVER switched teams in hopes to catapult himself and gain an advantage to win a Championship. - MJ NEVER lobbied to upper Mgt, the media or even let alone talk to other players to join the Bulls in hopes to catapult himself and gain an advantage to win a Championship either. - MJ was clearly the game's greatest hardwood assassin and the most clutch player to ever lace them up in NBA history. Whether game ending winners, in-game buzzer beaters/ties, regular seasons or post. - MJ struck FAR more fear into the hearts of his opponents than anyone else. - MJ NEVER took a game off let alone a PLAY off on either side of the court. - Other than Pippen, MJ 3-peated twice with two entirely different player rosters for each run. - Here's a doozy for you. In November of 1990, the Bulls lost their very first 3 games of the season. Since then, Michael Jordan never lost 3 games in a row again until June 1998. Only TWO 3-game losing streaks in a span of 626 games reg & post season. That is literally one of the most astronomically impossible feats ever accomplished in NBA basketball existence. - Imagine this: where does one think MJ would be had he played 20 HEALTHY years compiling longevity stats? Mmhmm. Exactly! No no..... everyone all knows it even you. King James would still be chasing him in several categories. - The first player (of 3 now: Olajuwan/Pippen are the other two) in NBA history to ever record 200 steals/100 blocks in a single season was Michael Jordan. but guess what? MJ did it not just once, but he did it....TWICE. No one else has duplicated this truly insane feat except MJ. In fact, only 6 centers in the league had more blocks than the shooting guard #23 had during his DPOY season. - Folks seem to think MJ was not a play maker, whereas King James is. Not so fast. In 1989 to close out the season, Micheal Jordan played the last 24 games (or roughly 1 third) of the season playing as a Point Guard. In that span of time at the #1 Guard position, he averaged 30.4 points, 9.2 rebounds, 10.7 assists, and 2.5 steals per game and all while shooting .498 from the floor. He also had an 11-game stretch in which he recorded 10 Triple Doubles. That's Wilt Chamberlain territory who back then owned the record stretch of 10 consecutive games with a Triple Double. (Russel Westbrook currently has it with 11 now). It would seem pretty obvious the numbers Michael Jordan did and could have EASILY put up far more if he continued playing a point guard position too. - To make it even more clear, MJ dominated the NBA game as a.... get this... a guard. Let that sink in.... A GUARD!! There are so many other accolades and accomplishments to choose from, but I'm sure everyone gets the gist. Michael Jordan could literally do anything he wanted, anytime he wanted and against anyone he wanted and still do it all far BETTER than anyone too. THAT is just a bad man and there is no one before or after, including King James, Kobe, etc. that can even come close to any of the aforementioned insanity and havoc he brought on the league as well as the greatest era of defense along with it. Look, from a practical standpoint, it is fair to say that those of us who have actually watched all of these gifted players in the totalities of their respective careers as well as many other great past players, can bolster a more intellectually honest comparison and opinion. Rather than those who grew up only exclusively watching King James for example. I happen to be one of those that has watched them all. Without a doubt, like the majority of others who have watched them all or played against them, the masses agree. The legendary galactic freak show His Airness is hands down, categorically the GOAT... period. No one in NBA history that has done what MJ has collectively amassed to put him into a God-like category literally by himself and I can also easily challenge anyone to TRY.... only to fail. I can also say with honesty that I feel King James perhaps has had the greatest CAREER of any basketball player in history... but he is not the GREATEST basketball player to ever lace them up. MJ is the GOAT hands down, and there is no close 2nd either. No one. That's a wrap.

[@high-defRJ]

Jordan is the assassin, defines leadership in terms of motivating and pushing teammates to have desire to win and compete every f'n game. LeBron has numbers, but lack a consistent leadership by switching teams, coming small in 2011 NBA Finals, getting blown off in a demolishing fashion by the Spurs in 2014, and using broken hand in 2018 Finals, or having "it's just basketball" mentality. GOATs have numbers and consistent leadership ability, and that's why I think Tim Duncan and Larry Bird have cases to be top 5 ever.

[@TheRealMichaelP]

If Scottie doesn’t get a migraine and Mikes father never pulled over in that Lexus… he would have rang off 9 straight championships

[@TheLionaaa]

I agree

[@JS-fw9ot]

Yeah nah. Absolutely delusional.

[@TheRealMichaelP]

@ you right. It was a lock out season in 99 if Jerry Krouse didn’t break up the team prematurely that’s 10 straight easy

[@darrellbarnes2096]

I'm glad you said his father, who died 3 months before he announced his retirement, not some gambling theory.

[@bigglilwayne7050]

Drexler has more rings than Jordan if Arvydis Sabonis comes to Portland when they initially drafted him in 86

[@patsongbandith7757]

MJ has made it very hard for others to be invited to the GOAT Conversation. IMO, a 3-Peat is a must just to get your foot in the door. And MJ has 2 of them.

[@Zett76]

Lebronists: that are TEAM accomplishments, not personal ones! Also Lebronists: per game stats don't count... 😀

[@BalloonFight]

@@Zett76 Haha, nah more like. "Jordan 6-0, with 2 3 peats" Lebron Fans: That's a team stat! Also Lebron fans "Lebron went to 10 finals!!!!"

[@Zett76]

@@BalloonFight going to 10 finals was Lebron's accomplishment! ...losing 6 of them: his team's fault. 😁

[@BalloonFight]

@@Zett76 Exactly lmao

[@mannied6395]

So many more reasons other than the 6 rings and No games 7's. Jordan took the game global. Even the U.S. president at that time begged Jordan to come out of retirement! No load management, no tweets trying to make his own case.. No recruiting other players to play with him!

[@veliprice3981]

He got no case bro stop the🧢

[@TheDocmike23]

,🤝🤝

[@mohab-alhinai]

1. MJ 2. Kobe 3. You can plug many players here

[@thomassharer8453]

All-NBA and MVP players that have more rings than LeBron ; Bill Russell, Havlicek, Kareem, MJ, Kobe, Duncan. LeBron is in that next tier with Steph & Shaq.

[@Kalinbuggs]

Honcho isn’t qb mvp also he’ll naw he hot over lebron lol Lebron on that tier

[@Hunt9-qb1if]

How many finals and VPs does those guys have compared to a Shaquille O’Neal which Kobe’s rings are not more valuable than Shaq?kobe ain’t greater then Shaq and half those players aren’t greater than Hakeem

[@Kalinbuggs]

@@Hunt9-qb1if that’s cap lol Shaq only has the FMVP edge over Kobe but after 2010 the discussion was over between Kobe & shaq

[@Zett76]

Just from the top of my hat: Pippen. All-NBA, 6 rings. Or do you mean players that were BOTH? Then, "all-nba" is obsolete. I can't recall a single MVP who wasn't all-nba. (I just researched that: Once. Kareem, 1980. MVP, but not all-nba)

[@plefevre]

There was never a debate. Never was, never will be. A debate is when two comparable things are advocated for.

[@anthonysandoval4220]

Rich and David are a 💯 on this. Kobe really was the closest he just fell short while 2nd best assassin is Steph

[@BatmanBoss]

Just Jordan’s style of play and the way he moves is unparalleled

[@bradwest4821]

Yah, Robert Horry has 7 rings. It's not just about the ring argument, it's about destroying others at will

[@Zett76]

If you have 6 rings AND 6 FMVPs, it IS an argument. 😀

[@alfasiger4178]

There is a difference between being the reason your team won, and being in the right place at the right time. MJ was the reason Bulls were 6-0 Horry was on the right team at the right time.

[@penkima4923]

@@alfasiger4178 Horry made countless shots at the right time.

[@alfasiger4178]

@@penkima4923 So did Ray Allen, Kyrie Irving, and Anthony Davis when they played with Lebron.

[@penkima4923]

@@alfasiger4178 LeBron was AD's sidekick.

[@sirdope2575]

ARE THEY STILL DEBATE ABOUT THIS ??? WOW... 10 YEARS ALREADY ?? DAMNN

[@THEOne-zx3fe]

That's because LeBron knows he needs these additional years to pad the stats to hopefully get his foot in the door. Without the additional 5-6 additional years he has on MJ, he'd be in the conversation for top 20 all time, not the GOAT.

[@ChrisLock-kt6ic]

MJ all day

[@nbtnmwoltz]

That Aldridge comment maybe sums it up the best: "If Michael Jordan were 5'6 instead of 6'6 he'd be the greatest serial killer in the history of serial killers." I'm DONE ☠☠☠

[@StoneColdBeard]

As someone who watched MJ live, every week in the 1990s and all of his finals. And someone who watched LeBron and all of his finals. MJ is better. He had a shorter flame, but it burned MUCH brighter.

[@ibnfaqir9223]

That ship already sailed.

[@ninowaves4061]

Real ones never have a conversation of mj vs LeBron..it’s not even comparable ..Jordan

[@CD-gk9ix]

I’m a Jordan guy, but we gloss over that Magic series loss in 1995. Jordan was back for the last quarter of the regular season and played well. But, Jordan and the Bulls lost that playoff series fair and square. The Magic were a really good team. We also gloss over the Wizards years.

[@LargeDude2023]

Crazy putting Lebron at #2. He played is the softest era and didn’t have to take the physical punishment that could shorten careers and he joined a championship MVPs team with another franchise player before he could win. The ball that Kareem gave him should have come with a travel bag. No one even talked about how many points one accumulated in a career when Kareem had the record because it was always understood that the goal was to win. Lebron changed the paradigm for losing through LeMedia and other surrogates that want to put a guy with a losing record ahead of winners.

[@thereasonwhy5188]

Its no case whatsoever knock it off. One 3pointer is amazing for Kareem. Bron is load management, reduced back to backs, one 82 game season

[@unholyknights]

Lebron James is the first and only goat that would lose to average civilian basketball players without NBA referees to bail him out. Tom Brady, Tiger Woods, Kobe Bryant, Michael Jordan, are greatness. Lebron is the only athlete with a losing record talking about he is the greatest ever 3-6 kingdom 💯🤣

[@gmo22]

9 years playing all 82 games, then an 81, 80, and 78 games played season. The only load management that MJ subscribed to was the load that he was willing to carry for his team.

[@nasmaxfit]

Stop it, Bron is NOT a top 2 🤦‍♂️

[@Zett76]

Exactly. Recency bias. Let's review his rank in ten years...

[@TBurr030]

@@Zett76lmao are you serious? In 10 yrs Lebron is the undisputed goat. The Jordan nostalgia & talks will die off with the generation. If the world went for another 100 yrs, all the kids of those days will know Lebron is the greatest

[@Zett76]

@@TBurr030 "Lebron is the greatest" ...why? 4 rings only, in 22(!) seasons, most finals chokes ever, not a SINGLE top-5 all-time per-game statline. Not a single one. Why is he the greatest?

[@TBurr030]

⁠@@Zett76hey man I’m jus saying what the consensus will be in the future after anyone who was alive to have this debate is gone. All the stats & leaderboards will point to Bron. I don’t have a horse in this race lol

[@Zett76]

@@TBurr030 which per-game stats? Why is Lebron better or even greater? Even those WITH a horse in the race can't explain why Lebron, who wasn't the best in anything but longevity, should be called the greatest. So: explain it. Why? NO per-game stat of his is top 5.

[@c808k]

Forget about our opinions. When NBA veterans, pioneers, hall of famers, colleagues and professional analysts alike all share the same sentiments about one person a “debate” shouldn’t and doesn’t even need to be brought to the table.

[@JaasielDiaz]

Correct MJ the GOAT no Questions

[@MrFantastic23]

Always loved David!

[@rogerhurt5569]

1) Jordan 2) Kareem (a closer than you may expect 2nd to Jordan) 3) Kobe (winning, defense, offense, & clutch) 4/5) Magic / Bird 6) Duncan 7) Russell 8) Olajuwon 9) Shaq 10/11) Curry/Chamberlain 12) LeBron (no defensive effort in half his time in the league, turnover king, coach killer, not a system player, decimates team for hand-picked players but has a losing record, flawed offensive game, & little improvement in his game to overcome weaknesses.)

[@Zett76]

"Kareem (a closer than you may expect 2nd to Jordan)" Because his goto-move was unguardable. That made him extremely efficient, but, at least from a spectator's view, not "MJ great". (I always differ between chosing as a trainer - who can give us the most wins - and a paying specator - who do I enjoy watching most... Karl Malone was more efficient than Shawn Kemp, but I enjoyed watching Kemp way more... Kareem was extremely efficient. MJ was everything.) Plus, there is a "pound for pound" factor. If a 6''2' player would accomplish everything MJ did, I would take him over MJ.

[@alfasiger4178]

Your first 5 is my same exact list.

[@DonnyGT]

Even LBJ over Kobe is insane..

[@stingrey1571]

only one person has ever been considered the greatest high school, college, and pro player. that is kareem.

[@melkadyo]

not complete skillset. it is much easier to dominate if you were taller than everybody. mj edges kareem by dribbling alone.

[@je5406]

He's got a great case as #2.

[@Zett76]

even if you're right: the peak is what matters, and pro player MJ is above Kareem.

[@jtremaine23]

I agree that Kareem was better than MJ in HS and college but not the pros which is the highest level. That shows how MJ’s game kept getting better and better until he became the best. In his absolute prime (1st 3peat), he had no weaknesses and straight dominated as the 1st option more than Kareem did as Kareem became a 2nd option.

[@callawayproducts]

What people fail to realize, is that Michael Jordan won 6 championships not just as the leading scorer, but without ever having a Dominant center, which is what the NBA was established on! And Jordan did not have the 1st round or lottery picks like everyone else! Kareem, Shaq, Wilt, Kobe, Lebron, played on stacked teams, Jordan only had Pippen. Then Rodman, and I can't forget about Cartwright, but he was at the end of his career. Jordan as a 6'5" 189-215lbs guard should not have been able to do the things he was able to do in winning 6 championships! In a Big Mans Game

[@gmfan09]

Jordan had to be on the top of the list because the vast majority of lebron fanboys don’t buy and read books.

[@goldenboy6931]

MJ#23 basketball 🏀 🐐 the❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤4life.

[@linnstr8609]

Here's my reason for MJ being the goat: the existence of 80s athletic freak MJ. Sure, he hogged the ball a lot, but man did he put on a show with his aerial assaults, relentless drives at the rim, poster dunks, double and triple-clutch layups, etc... You couple this MJ with the more controlled, calculated, cerebral, and championship winning 90s MJ and you have the goat. Kobe basically emulated 90s MJ his whole career and was able to win titles. A few players over the years remind me of 80s MJ, like Vince Carter, Russell Westbrook, and Ja Morant, but none of these players were able to become champions. MJ did it all.

[@kevinhouse4376]

I have the book and am enjoying it. John Havlicek, who came in at #29, was and is my favorite player. I'm glad he at least is in the top 30, although I think he should be a few spots higher. However, I am very disappointed that Bob Lanier didn't make the top 100 list. Years ago when the NBA named named its top 50, the first thing then commissioner David Stern said was "Where's Bob Lanier?" Then Lanier again was overlooked when the league named its top 75. I thought for sure he would at least crack the top 100, but sadly I was wrong. He averaged over 20 points and 10 rebounds a game for many years in the '70s with the Pistons (without much talent around him other than Dave Bing) and then started for a really tough Bucks team in the early '80s that never made it to the finals due to outstanding Celtics and 76ers teams. Lanier gets overlooked because there were so many great centers in that era, but he certainly was one of them.

[@michaelmckenzie6311]

Any top 10 All Timer has a GOAT argument really but honestly it's Mike! Kareem, Kobe, Larry, Timmy, Moses, LeBron, Dream, Magic, Doc, Russell etc ..all have cases!

[@Hunt9-qb1if]

Kobe Bryant does not have a case for greatest of all time

[@TheBLACKSTARmovement]

​@@Hunt9-qb1if Kobe has more of a case than LeBron

[@Zett76]

If 9 out of 10 cars reach 250 mph, and one car reaches 300... the other nine DON'T have a case. 😀

[@Zett76]

@@Hunt9-qb1if if we let, let's say... twenty players into the discussion... name 20 players that were better than him.

[@michaelmckenzie6311]

@@Zett76 Kareem is a start!

[@iAmEdwinHamilton]

Kareem got 38k points and he played college basketball 😂 imagine id he came straight into the league and didn’t play 3-4 years at UCLA

[@vjyamat6527]

The mere fact that LBJ used MJ as his template speaks volumes. No contest.

[@gabrielmaldonado2195]

But Lebron said he was already the GOAT when he beat GS with that 3-1 comeback

[@Zett76]

@@gabrielmaldonado2195 Lebron also said that Bronny was better than some nba players. 😀

[@alphaomega1351]

I so hope that, despite me not ever playing in college or NBA, I'm #1 on the list. 😳

[@AlexAljecera-df9yc]

I agree MJ is the GOAT 🐐

[@Comictalent]

People overthink this. My take is if you want peak performance it’s clearly Jordan and if you value longevity more, it’s LeBron.

[@LukaRayBro]

Everyone needs to stop comparing ANYONE to MJ (he's untouchable)....any debates should only be about who is the 2nd best...Kobe/Magic/Kareem/bird/Russell could be 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th etc..those that left the game better then they found it!!...and...longevity doesn't make you a great player....

[@jasonjackson33]

Michael Jordan had 5 seasons under 500 he isn’t untouchable.

[@Zett76]

@@jasonjackson33 1. the season before he entered the league, the Bulls were a .330 team. 2. 1985/86 doesn't count. Broken foot. 3. Did you really include the two Wizards seasons? Where he played for 1 million dollars? 😀 4. Even IF the Wizards years would have been about contending (they weren't), same thing happened: they went from 0.230(!!!) to .450...

[@jasonjackson33]

@@Zett76 All these excuses doesn’t change the fact he had 5 losing seasons. The guy people claim is the greatest simply because of will power hahahaha. You couldn’t find an excuse for his 87 season where he played all the games and they still had a losing record.

[@Zett76]

@@jasonjackson33 your claim is simply untrue, dear "hahahaha". "Michael Jordan had 5 seasons under 500" 1985/86, he played 18 games and won 9. 2001/2002, he played 60 games and won 30. ...besides that: "The guy people claim is the greatest" ...who is, dear "hahahaha", better than him?

[@jasonjackson33]

@ No injury excuses for 85, 87, 03. Michael Jordan needed an All NBA and All defensive first player like Scottie Pippen to make his team great.

[@officialruthstage]

no one who saw both actually believes lebron is better. its all about invoking jordan's name for clicks and views. lebron isnt even number 2.

[@todub781]

Winning = GOAT! Not one player in the history of team sports has won a title alone. Jordan, Kareem, Bird, or Labron. This argument is the GOAT of all arguments but one person above the others is silly. GOATs but no GOAT!

[@katrinachavez3533]

But only one player won titles with only ONE All-Star teammate. Russell, Kareem, Bird, Magic, LeBron, etc. needed a multitude of All-Star teammates. Not Black Jesus.

[@Zett76]

MJ contributed more than any other player. He scored more of his team's points then any other player. ...and in the playoffs, he contributed even MORE. He is FOURTH in all-time steals per game. 315th - as a freakin' GUARD - in all-time rebounds per game. One of very few with true clutch perfomance, meaning: no matter how important the shot, his fg% didn't go down. We can argue all day about a LOT of possible goats in a lot of sports, but Jordan is so far ahead, it's not a debate.

[@Fergus316]

LeBron has to be doping. That is what I think such longevity has indicated again and again in this modern era of sports.

[@davidangeron3365]

Stop the nonsense. Mr. goaty Pen, from Akron is not in the Top 10.

[@chrispennie5830]

Watched both! MJ was totally insane. For me in the modern era I have MJ Kobe then LeBron. All three are great!

[@shysgarage2405]

LeBron isn't even in the top 50, maybe Top 100...

[@jasonthomassen7817]

We need to emphasize the 2 3 peats and how hard it is to win 3 in a row let alone doing it twice!

[@Cheif_Espada]

Aaaaaaand he literally gets a triple double the day after this aired. Stop Lebron is the GOAT

[@THEOne-zx3fe]

So triple double makes him the GOAT? Then Westbrook > LeBron.

[@mtraiders735]

a triple double is your argument?? ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

[@charlesfarmer7046]

THAT was Good. That was the best description of Jordan and the NBA at that time...

[@djnkosi]

1. MJ 2. Kareem 3. Russell 4. Wilt 5. Magic 6. LeBron 7. Bird and I'll figure out the rest another day 🤣

[@richardturner1063]

Lebron Kareem Jordan Russell Wilt Magic Bird Kobe Duncan Shaq

[@Reli55]

As long as His Airness is the bar of comparison, he will always be the EPITOME (GOAT) of basketball on and off the court locally and globally. 🏀 🐐

[@Vintage_Robinson]

Where’s the skip button???

[@BaoTran-qh6km]

Mj is a better scorer better defender better competitor better at winning

[@roblandau6766]

But apart from that…..

[@brandonterzic]

More interesting argument is greatest team ever. The problem with the "GOAT" convo is that there are too many factors going across eras. Also, difference between career greatness vs a single season.

[@Urbohat]

Jordan was a great defender throughout his run with the Bulls. One of the greatest if not the greatest defender at his position for a 9 year stretch.

[@oskaveli662]

Jordan Kareem Bird Magic Russell Wilt Kobe Lebron Shaq Hakeem

[@PAPABRAY619]

Watching bron play is exciting and fun. Watching Michael play makes me emotional and want to cry 😂 he was pure basketball

[@jn9604]

I think it is simple .... at the end of a big game in the final seconds, who do want with the ball in their hands ... I want Jordan one and Bird two ....

[@TheOmengod]

1) Jordan - no one is close 2) Kareem 3) Magic 4) Bird 5) Kobe 6) LePED - juiced, soft era, super team building, load management, media bias, choker, ect.

[@Ruan_Mein]

Per game stats: MJ Advance stats: MJ Accolades: MJ Longevity stats: LBJ Eye test: MJ Impact: MJ

[@Ryder-uy7sm]

My top 5 all time stats really don't matter to be innovation is how I grade players 1. Jordan 2. Bird 3. Koby 4. Magic 5. Kareem

[@Panni1]

It seems like the vast majority of sportswriters/analysts/fans who were able to see both play say Jordan over LeBron. I think most of those who say Lebron never really saw Jordan in his prime.

[@tmgco]

I’ve been watching the NBA since 1970. I’ve seen lots of great players. When Larry Bird hit the scene, I thought he was the best player I’d seen…….but then Jordan came along……and even Bird had to admit that Jordan was otherworldly. Bobby Knight broke it down when he proclaimed Jordan the greatest player ever: Jordan was the confluence of the greatest athlete he’d ever seen, the most skilled player he’d ever seen and the fiercest competitor he’d ever seen.

[@Bigboi23847]

An old guy thinks Jordan is the GOAT. What else is new?

[@TheCrudeLifeContentNetwork]

My all time favorite is Magic or Jordan in a GOAT debate … This one opened my eyes to Magic’s awesome legacy 😳