The Atlantic's George Packer on the End of Democratic Delusions

[@blueberry-ri7eb]

How could anyone look at jan 6th and say Trump was for democracy?

[@vc6984]

Thats simple. They saw it for what really happened. Not some conjured up conspiracy.

[@markrobinowitz8473]

@@vc6984 Trump's version of the Beer Hall Putsch.

[@gilberthamilton9312]

@@vc6984It was a coup attempt, along with the fake electors scheme.

[@Zomby_Woof]

​@@vc6984What really happened was that Trump tried to remain in power through illegal means. The only thing that would have allowed him to remain in power, would have been if control of Congress flipped from D to R. And the only way that could happen was if some D's went away. And the only way they would have gone away was if there was a body count. Thats what Trump was waiting for while he sat on his fat ass watching the violence. When he realized that wasn't going to happen, he reluctantly sent his people home. And because they failed him, he didn't pardon them when he easily could have. Trump Humpers don't give a shit about democracy - they just want someone who hates who they hate.

[@joshuascholar3220]

@@vc6984 Good point, they could be delusional enough to believe Donald Trump.

[@KarenMichalec]

People didn't understand Biden had to first dig us out from the Covid disaster. People were impatient.

[@SeanHogan_frijole]

Biden forgot his own promise to stand aside and pass on the torch.

[@Kilroy-h5u]

Harris was a bad candidate pretty simple

[@anthonymugg]

Dear Al Franken, what a treasure you are.

[@nancymcmonarch]

Indeed! But come on, Al, you can't possibly need all these insipid KZbin ads. They make your podcasts nearly unwatchable; I certainly can't listen while I'm washing dishes, because I keep having to hit the damn Pause button. Stellar content; cheapo presentation.

[@jimstevens2001]

Obama did get it. Anyone who doesn’t think sexism and racism doesn’t explain Trump’s margin of victory needs to take off the blinders. The media doesn’t want to go there. ‘ doesn’t want to “hector”. Packer has a keen sense of the obvious…pretty oblivious.

[@bmunson4920]

Not a surprise at all. Surveys in the USA routinely state that 70%, 75%, 80% etc. say that the country is headed in the wrong direction. But that doesn’t clarify which direction is the ‘right direction’…two entirely different people could both agree with that statement, yet one believes the country should be more like Denmark, and another like Russia. And since the country is neither (yet), they would both be in agreement but for diametrically opposed reasons.

[@jamesbutler1831]

Exactly

[@WhingeandWhine]

Personally I believe a large population of Americans are unserious and happy to be followers of podcasters they believe are like them and wealthy goons that will show them how to get rich quick. It’s a train wreck

[@birunz]

agreed. happily and willfully ignorant

[@January.]

Has been this way and deteriorating for SEVERAL DECADES. Any American who's been to Europe knows this.

[@blythebrock600]

Al franken I wish you would run for office again! You are truly missed!!

[@jamesbutler1831]

I love Al, but he's getting old

[@Dwah-j6h]

A challenge for Al - interview a woman and talk about the breakdown of the vote by gender, swing in the Latino and Black vote by gender. As a woman I hear misogyny from the disgruntled, from men voting for Trump…..

[@TheOldHippiebilly]

I agree. As a man, I'm disgusted with the recent regression of young males into misogyny. REAL men respect women.

[@Contextualiser16-tn8nd]

@TheOldHippiebilly- if young men see people like drumpf commit crimes and never be held accountable, why wouldn't they vote for him? They also see fox and other rw media proliferated with almost zero counter-narrative and a Democratic Party prioritise bipartisanship over justice, they'll likely vote for someone who is unapologetically on one side rather than someone who doesn't want to take 1.

[@thomasflagg7209]

I wish Al Frankin had stayed in Congress. Congress is now a community theater production of One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest.

[@patpetersen7645]

I'm so tired of the term affordable healthcare, there's no such thing.

[@briandbeaudin9166]

You could imagine Trump saying that, "...and we're going to have great, affordable healthcare..." "I have concepts of a plan."

[@nancymcmonarch]

In the history of the human race, healthcare preceded the existence of money.

[@donnabenson6900]

You are absolutely correct! Our deductible, out of pocket is nine thousand each before insurance pays anything! God help us!

[@blueberry-ri7eb]

The ACA needed a public option

[@MyassesDragon]

Easier said. There weren't the votes so it was as Obamacare was or nothing.

[@grfrog]

ACA was the foot in the door to be built off of. US needed to elect Clinton.

[@nancymcmonarch]

Countless Americans have given their lives so the health insurance industry can have a powerful lobbying presence. And too many of our elected "representatives" were and are happy to help slurp up that blood money.

[@Dragoman35]

Thank you very much for this broadcast. There is a large segment of the population that doesnt realize that jobs requiring a high school education are getting scarcer and scarcer. There is little emphasis placed on non-college further education in lines of tecnnical education and other computer related fields. Some men dont want jobs they consider "unmanly" such as health and medical assistance.We as men have to understand that economics is not based on machismo.

[@anamericaninamerica]

Yet, many claim Jesus is their role model. Go figure.

[@anamericaninamerica]

But, Jesus.

[@MegaWeegee64]

Thanks for the excellent real time analysis.

[@YABBAHEY1]

Though still shocked by the outcome but I sort'a get it. When arguing for democracy before the election w/friends who were Trump supporters my stance was the 'firm' : "Yea government sucks but she's far better than the alternative" Maybe they missed the nuance in that or they really wanted to throw a wrench into the works ? I'm at a complete loss how they justify THIS will benefit them in any way though. These are trades guys. Not stupid yet absolutely wrong IMO. That's the mind boggling (sort'a) part.

[@WGAGENCY]

Read Agenda 2030. It is a book written in 1992. that will help you understand how and why they think that way. It’s not just Democrats either. Bush was in on this Agenda 2030 plan as well. Trump is from outside. That’s why you see everyone around the world shifting right.

[@romecatolico3549]

GREAT INTERVIEW MINNESOTA HOME 🏠 TOWN HERO 🦸‍♂️ AL FRANKEN 🇺🇸 ✨

[@sue-qs3dh]

I can’t believe this is happening

[@mm5478]

Viewing American society from the lens of an immigrant, now citizen, all Trump did was tap the giant artery that is American idiocy. Everyday I am amazed by what America has achieved in spite of the 60% who are relentlessly aggrieved, angry, and alone.

[@adrianfoca865]

its amazing that this is news to you guys. if they dont fix wealth inequality the pitch forks are coming soon

[@nancymcmonarch]

Pitchforks? That would be a stupid, inefficient, needlessly bloody "solution" in a country that's already fought a Revolution and won. We're blessed with an awesome, elegant Constitution, and every citizen has the right to VOTE and to share our concerns with our representatives. It's a shame more Americans don't treasure and utilize the solutions we already possess.

[@LoriTianSailiata]

She picked Tim Walz and then made him walk two steps behind Liz Cheney!

[@robertacomstock3655]

Tim was spearheading his own rallies. I thought he did so very well. Still not enough, apparently.

[@Zomby_Woof]

​@@robertacomstock3655I remain convinced its because Biden ran his administration the way a coward would. He didn't want to have his administration confronting Trump, and hoped he would just go away if he ignored him. Merrick Garland was operating at Biden's direction. There is no other explanation for Garland blocking investigations of Trump and not being fired. That made his administration look weak and ineffective - because it was weak and ineffective. And that spilled over to Harris as his vp. Biden never should have announced he was running again. He should have been content with being a one term president. He's appallingly bad at reading the room.

[@bvkronenberg6786]

Good comment, so true!

[@heidigordon1868]

Why don’t you get back into politics, Al? We miss your insight and level headed wit.

[@SwedeSpeeder]

Because, "believe all women" railroaded him out of the Senate.

[@vc6984]

Well clearly his insight blinded him again.

[@vc6984]

@@SwedeSpeeder yet another democrat hammer to use .

[@jamesbutler1831]

He is getting too old

[@sizzzlechest]

After the Bourbon Restoration The Chevalier de Panat said “The Bourbons have learned nothing and forgotten nothing.” Al Franken and the rest of the Democrats perfectly exemplify this in our current day.

[@kelly4connelly910]

Thank you both for the clarity I needed for this coming year.💙🇺🇸👍

[@Dwah-j6h]

A time of madness. Yikes indeed.

[@crowwoman9218]

Iḿ not 100 percent behind the elites' argument. Voters like getting permission to hate instead of thinking through an issue.

[@vc6984]

The hate was from the democrat side. Reality was from the others who voted against the democrat elites or stayed home.

[@Zomby_Woof]

Exactly

[@diannabryzicki7111]

Now that the US is sleepwalking into Autocracy and Fascism, I suspect it will take alot of financial pain and the loss of rights resulting from Trump 2.0, Oligarchy, and Authoritarianism to change perceptions.

[@Zomby_Woof]

The one possibility is that Vance is in place as a firewall, and that his sycophancy is an act for Trump's benefit. Vance is 100% a creation of Peter Thiel, so its entirely possible he's there to take over if the oligarchs are threatened with a tanking economy beyond what they can hedge against.

[@jamesbutler1831]

While they burn it to the ground and rule over the ashes, Fox (not news) will tell them everything is great.

[@Albanesque]

Time to move to Independent candidates. Independent Veterans for America.

[@JohnChampagne]

When did the era of democracy end? When, for instance, did we stop aligning the rate of extraction of various resources and rate of emission of various pollutants with what most people think is acceptable? Did we ever do that? By the measure of how much impact on the environment is allowed, have we ever had a democracy? Has any politician ever said that we *should* bring impacts on the environment into line with what most people would say is acceptable? (Do we have a shared right to define limits to impacts? Should we expect governments to do that?)

[@NoSacredCowFla]

Next year I finally qualify for Medicare. But they are trying to pull the rug out. How can we stop them from making Healthcare even worse?

[@CurtOntheRadio]

That was good, for a change. About time.

[@MarleneSB]

Thank you for the video, I'm going to savoir this in the morning.

[@gregbors8364]

That’s faire

[@smith...1]

Every time I listen in to you Al, I love you a little bit more. Sending good snow vibes to you and your family from Canberra Australia 🌏 💙💛🇺🇦

[@WayWillow]

Rapid move to Free Trade is at the root.

[@jamesbutler1831]

Murdoch and the rapid rise of right-wing media is largely to blame also.

[@NathanCroucher]

2 choices, bare minimum requirment for a democracy. Gets bare minimum quality too.

[@nancymcmonarch]

The quality of our Democracy will always be only as good as the quality of our citizens. The United States is what we make it.

[@gdotone1]

writers like this guy was part of the problem. what do I mean? example his knowledge of inflation.

[@Kilroy-h5u]

No amount of time would have would have helped Harris. She was the wrong candidate at the wrong time.

[@johnellington1932]

Shell Island Peninsula Full Blown Appetite of Numbness

[@stevenkoivula6281]

Thanks, Al go Orioles!

[@alisonburgess345]

oh dear, well they're in for a bit of a shock then...

[@scottsammons7747]

Hey Al, A totally off topic subject: Have you seen the campaign for hiring Oscar Mayer Weiner Mobil drivers? The idea that a college graduate should settle for the tiny wage that they are offering is worthy of ridicule.

[@MrOliverwoods]

People like GP, with good education have watched for forty years the monetization of politics. Like his fellow Yale alums from the GOP he really hasn’t complained about that system, but why do both sides just let big money run the elections ? BC both Franken and Packer are heavy beneficiaries of this corrupt system. I’m sure they both irritate the lads at alumni weekend with their bullshit posing. That hardy fellow from Harvard said it right, “We must make our choice. We may have democracy, or we may have wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can’t have both.”

[@kahlodiego5299]

Reagan stole my pell grant.

[@gjnelsonandco]

114th!

[@jamessizemore1446]

A series of statements of Biden good Trump bad none of the statements back up with facts.

[@bvkronenberg6786]

Boomer Happy Hour!!

[@geridietze3377]

Hey, guys: I respect both of you, but giving Hillary not only a pass, but also praise covers the fact that had her people not kneecapped Bernie twice in the primaries, we would have a president who represents all of the people, in the interest of all of the people. (And, Hillary has blood on her hands re: Gaddafi: "We came; we saw; he died." (Cackle, cackle, cackle.)

[@nancymcmonarch]

Can't stand to even look at Hillary, but how is she to blame for the 2020 primary election? At least by then she'd gotten it through her thick head not to run (and lose) a third time.

[@dotjohnson4247]

It would be great if you started video, not just words...

[@Zomby_Woof]

Not a great guest. I found his conclusions to be unsupported by observable facts, and failed utterly in putting the blame where it belongs. He tries to somehow rehabilitate the opinions and motivations of the Deplorables. I dubmit that they are beyond redemption because their opinions are not based in anything close to reality.

[@nancymcmonarch]

Calling voters "deplorable" was a historically stupid campaign move. Even a lot of Democrats had Trump-worshiping loved ones; in my case, she was sneering at my Uncle Tommy (RIP), who was dropped on his head as an infant. And at least those people care enough to vote. Is there anyone more deplorable, really, than Americans who care so little about our country, our history, themselves and their own families, that they're too goddamned lazy to vote?

[@Zomby_Woof]

@@nancymcmonarch Studies have shown that voter participation tends to be inversely proportional to how satisfied the citizens of a country are with their government

[@KathrynTanner-t8f]

Interesting guest. Among the many things we see changing is our language. I am confused by the meaning of "elites." I would have thought that meant the very few of us who were really really rich and able to buy their way into political and other forms of power over the rest of us. In other words, guys like trump and his billionaire 'friends." Certainly not people like me. I AM college-educated but worked as a public school teacher. Talk about NOT rich and about as powerLESS as you can get. I guess I WAS pretty deluded. Still don't quite get it.

[@nancymcmonarch]

The "woke" thing still cracks me up, but I suppose it makes perfect sense. The tyrants among us would certainly prefer that we all go to sleep and stay there.

[@billcoleman4258]

The two women who ran against Trump were terrible, awful candidates.

[@nancymcmonarch]

VP Harris was given a rotten deal; I blame the DNC Poobahs for that. They should have taken the President aside in 2023 and said "No, Joe, you should NOT run again next year." They're largely responsible for Hillary, too, although her big fat ego had much to do that horrific decision. Could not believe the DNC anointed her in 2020, to the exclusion of far better candidates, after she'd pissed away the 2008 nomination with the nasty, racist primary campaign she ran against Barack Obama. Just imagine . . . we could be winding down a second term of President Sanders or President Warren right now, and Donald Trump would be off somewhere trying to unload his gristly steaks.

[@lelanddavis4733]

Ok

[@kathykholetis]

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