The Bard + the Minotaur: A Guided Tour through Saltburn

[@rengsn4655]

early in the movie the nerd friend from oxford (michael gavey) draws attention to how oliver changes his clothes to fit in and manipulate those around him. his wardrobe changes throughout the film much like how he changes his persona. at the very end, he's naked.. his truest self.

[@secondbreakfastpod]

Wow this is fantastic! Great catch!

[@heatherboward2779]

I felt that Oliver didn't kill Farley because...there was that moment where Farley said " I always come back, this is my home, you don't belong but I do, and you'll try forever to recapture this life" for Ollie to have Farley removed from the home and to make it so Farley can NEVER return...and for him to have to live with knowing he can never return....is exactly the fate farley claimed ollie would have...so he turned the tables and made it so farley could never return and would have to dream of being there...Just my opinion on why Ollie didn't murder him like the rest.

[@biancachristie]

I think Oliver's killing spree isn't planned, but once he starts with Felix, he has committed yet another transgression, and there's no reason to stop there when he realizes that Venetia sees through him and suspects him of murdering Felix; at that moment, Oliver figures that he has to kill her, too, to stop the possibility not just of being chucked out of Saltburn but probably spending his life in prison. To your point about Farleigh--Farleigh has left Saltburn before Oliver's first kill turns into a full-on spree, so I think that's probably why he doesn't do it initially. But, yeah, in the long run, you're absolutely right; turning the tables on Farleigh in that way (and leaving Farleigh to be the one to tell his "fat kids" or whoever about his Big Boy Summer) would be much more satisfying for Oliver.

[@leahp1765]

But he will go to jail

[@ciaraskeleton]

I'm glad its being broken down in a way that it deserves. There is no big message with this film, it is a multiple part play almost and it's purpose is to entertain, even after the film is over. I found it refreshing! So many films follow a predictable pattern, especially regarding villains. This gave people something that we haven't had in a while. It's fantastical and in the end you kind of root for the villain in a weird authentic way. Barry Keoghan was brilliant, I can't imagine another actor pulling off the character of Oliver and having it be cohesive and actually translate to the audience.

[@secondbreakfastpod]

Love this comment & analysis! Thanks for watching!

[@fareshajjar1208]

Worthless writer/director redid Talented Mr. Ripley, with outlandish and even more derivative convolutions that altogether equal a stupid movie that strains credulity. Supposedly the guy can just kill people by talking to them. Where did he get the poison used in the maze and wouldn't that be one of the first things the cops would check for? Stupid. About 50 questions like that. She tried to make a mystery by tricking the viewer and omitting key scenes. Agatha Christie you ain't! Dumb writer just skating from one shock scene to the next to try to make a name for herself. Hey DEI hire: "Gross sex scenes are not a substitute for talent."

[@dasiasaur]

@@fareshajjar1208if you hated it so much, why are you here in the comments of a commentary praising it? You get joy from bringing others down with you? Let people enjoy things, there isn’t one right opinion.

[@ciaraskeleton]

@@fareshajjar1208 It was a drug OD that killed Felix babe! Weren't you paying attention? The cops were responding to a rich kid who in their opinion 'od'd himself at a party', why would they be asking questions? Oliver didn't kill anyone just by talking to them either, unless again, you didn't watch the film. Your review here is laughable. Worthless director? Dumb writer? Have you no better critiques than the vocabulary of a misogynistic toddler? If you're going to critique the film, at least do a decent job and possibly actually pay attention to the film? Cause I just answered your burning questions in less than a minute. 😂 If you don't like the film, if you don't understand the film, that sir is valid. You think the writing and the directing are, quote 'dumb and worthless'? What a cerebral take. You must be such an incredibly articulate and Intellectual person. Super fun at parties too. 🤣

[@fareshajjar1208]

@@dasiasaur All good points. Not trying to bring people down. I just hate how everyone raves about a movie from all the hype and promotion around it and yet most of it is just stolen, derivative crap. The writer director is held up, and yet she did not have an original idea in her entire movie. It was all stolen scenes from other, better movies or books. The one thing she did different, was to be disgusting in a sad attempt to shock and maybe get eyeballs for her 15 minutes. What's next, sh*t eating, killing babies, having sex with kittens? Shocking people with gross or taboo scenes is always the refuge of the talentless. The magical dude who is able to kill people by blowing on them (apparently) is so in love that he rejoices in the death or murder of the one he so craves to be with. It was just silly and contrived.

[@adahmc]

The maze, the minotaur, and the wings... I think the costume design chose to dress Felix as Icarus. And like Icarus, he too died after "getting high" in a maze.

[@secondbreakfastpod]

I love your turn of phrase here!

[@Airfriedfroglegg]

I thought he was puck from a Midsummer night’s dream, the party theme

[@babajusten]

He played too much with the fire (oliver as a toy) and burned like icarus

[@eddiel7635]

@@Airfriedfroglegg I had Felix as Oberon, the fairy king. I think he was referred to as a king of the house at some point and there was also king Henry VII and VIII references.

[@eddiel7635]

Theseus is a main character in A midsummer’s night dream. Theseus is also the guy from Greek mythology that travels to Crete to kill the Minotaur in the labyrinth. So the maze has symbolism but it also links back to the party that way.

[@Stillwater1967]

Richard the 3rd used his physicality and/ or deformatity to manipulate other characters. Oliver literally morphed himself from looking like a timid man to the muscled Greek god

[@secondbreakfastpod]

Love this addition! We're always excited when someone spots some more Shakespeare!

[@elicreeley5379]

I think there is a Fairy folklore angle too, emphasized by A Midsummer Night's Dream. The Stag costume, with the embroidered Oak leaves, nods at the Celtic and Gaelic Horned God & Green Man who is somewhat analogous to Pan and the Devil. It's nice and rounded that Oliver is Irish and played by an Irish actor. He's also far shorter than most of the cast and is shot to emphasize that. Lots of cool ways to look at it from that lens too. I loved this, thank you guys!

[@secondbreakfastpod]

LOVE this analysis, thank you so much!

[@noone-ly6wu]

Oliver's not Irish lol, I think he's meant to be from Liverpool

[@eddiel7635]

Incidentally, throwing things in water, shown by the stones for the dead in the film, is also linked to Celtic folklore and mythology. Water was seen as a portal to the underworld/ afterlife. Weapons and other objects have been found that were clearly thrown there as offerings. Which is where we get the Excalibur Arthurian myth from and the lady of the lake. The lady of the lake is linked with Titania, queen of the fairies, the central character of A Midsomer Nights dream.

[@candacesteiger5906]

Farley was dressed as Nick Bottom literally because he was about to be discarded by the Queen, Elspeth. I think that everyone in the household stayed or went based on her entertainment and whims, which Oliver was very tuned into immediately.

[@secondbreakfastpod]

Ooh, I love this framing of Farley!

[@THESLUG420]

I've been looking for a good, and long video about the psychology in Saltburn, instead of just the one sided, 10 minute videos I've been seeing everywhere. This is just that, not only are you showing 3 different sides to the movie but you explain it in such an amazing way.

[@secondbreakfastpod]

Why thank you! We're glad you enjoyed the episode!

[@CSquawk]

Literally tried to convince my friend Venetia was Ophelia during our first watch to the point he told me to shut up 😭 I need the deleted notes

[@secondbreakfastpod]

Ha! Love this comment! I feel like we could do 100 episodes exploring this story

[@badlilkitty96]

I could see that fs!

[@olutola123]

Thank you for breaking this down the way it deserves. One thing I wondered about Oliver, is if he is a sheltered nerd then where did learn to use his sexuality? I find it fascinating how his libido is completely channeled through possession and the only time we see him being sexually gratified/naked is at his final success, murder on the dancefloor. While he services everyone to completion, his desires remain nevernude and chaste - powerbottom of the century. I’d say Felix finding out about Oliver’s real family was his version of narrative orgasm since his shame complex drives him so fully :) ❤ blissful film

[@secondbreakfastpod]

Ha! Props for being as funny as you are insightful here. Fantastic analysis!

[@civy420]

Since director said this is a gothic vampire type of film, although without the vampire, we can still consider this as hint that Oliver "changed" when he first drank the human fluid.

[@Camille_Anderson]

​@@civy420I wish it had been a vampire movie because it would be so much better, imho.

[@orchilhenry6971]

The dance at the end…..Pan

[@elicreeley5379]

Yup. 100%

[@secondbreakfastpod]

Yes, love this!

[@sidecar226]

Thanks-this is fantastic. Not sure how it fits in with the Minotaur, but Oliver is definitely dressed as Cernunnos at his birthday party, with the antlers and oak leaves and acorns.

[@secondbreakfastpod]

Ooh good catch! And glad you enjoyed the episode!

[@sidecar226]

It works with the angel vs devil theme, with Felix’s very simple, no-effort wings and then Oliver is the more complex, nuanced figure that is typically thought of as the devil, the horned god, but to more sophisticated eyes is just a primordial force of nature.

[@elicreeley5379]

OH! I just commented that too! I'm glad I wasn't the only one who saw that!!!

[@capybaraconnoisseur]

i fucking loved saltburn and i needed this one hour video thank god

[@secondbreakfastpod]

Oh the movie was just fantastic! Glad you enjoyed the episode too!

[@alberttrinidad1750]

You must be gay like iam. I adorned it. I mean Jacob Elordi. As felix I would have liked the tub too

[@smokinjoestalin]

The minotaur can also be considered a symbol of lust and also shame because the legend was that he was born from a woman who mated with a bull. Oliver had came to the centre of the maze which may represent a confrontation of his own deep desires and lust. He appears entirely comfortable with his own dark desires, and act them out, not something which many people can do.

[@justinwilliams7290]

The scene where OIiver rips the beathing tube from Rosamund also at that moment is VERY similar to many statues of Perseus and Medusa with the tube itself mimicking the tendons? hanging from the neck of the gorgon...

[@secondbreakfastpod]

This is fascinating, thank you for the comment!

[@civy420]

Best Saltburn related video so far! both surface and deeper level discussion. I wonder what was the final painting on the ceiling was (before the dance scene start), if we know that, perhaps we can connect it with something else too. Also 38:46, the statue is "Samson Slaying a Philistine", a marble sculpture by Giambologna (1562), instead of Perseus and Medusa sculpture.

[@secondbreakfastpod]

Thank you thank you! And I appreciate the correction about the statue. Good eye!

[@seankerr9158]

Call Me by Your Name + Bones & All -> Saltburn. Ollie eats the peach. And Felix

[@seankerr9158]

He also pulled the stone with Felix’s name out of the water, after assuming his place, didn’t he?

[@Camille_Anderson]

CMBYN was an actual masterpiece, imho. Heartbreaking and beautiful.

[@christicat221b]

this podcast was scratching an itch and put together so many ideas i had swirling around but couldn't exactly pinpoint. really satisfying and enjoyable

[@secondbreakfastpod]

Thank you, thank you! We're happy to have you and glad you enjoyed the discussion!

[@toofar2real]

Felix waking Oliver up early on his birthday for a "surprise" visit to his mother definitely wasn't this innocent supportive friend move. Remember Felix was shrewd, he had begun to suspect Oliver especially after he secretly talked to his mother on Oliver's phone. He wanted to see Oliver's mother for himself and wanted Oliver there to watch his genuine reaction. That's why it was a surprise and he refused to turn around once Oliver figured out where they were going

[@civy420]

I do think Felix was protrait as a inocent character, the film itself did not really gave us more depth with this role.

[@toofar2real]

​@@civy420 the people doing this review said it was innocent

[@madlass3093]

I think we are suppose to perceive Felix as innocent and perfect bc Oliver sees him that way. Because on a second viewing especially he most certainly isn't innocent & perfect

[@Gya2foonsj]

I dunno but I thought his shocked (disappointed, disgusted) reaction was quite genuine. Although I get it. His intentions may not be that innocent. Almost like a child trying desperately to get that “kick” from a toy he’s playing with, he was definitely enjoying the fact that 1. He could be a hero for this poor friend 2. At the least he can enjoy the “drama,” the tension surrounding a reality that he’s never been familiar with.

[@cindyr4918]

This was an interesting discussion to listen to - I definitely could see some of the parallels with Shakespeare's works (and Evelyn Waugh's work who was also mentioned more than once). I think all of the red in the movie also symbolizes that Oliver is a literal and metaphorical vampire - his obsession with bodily fluids, the way he tried to control others with sex and sometimes words (also like mind control), and his acquisition of the estate so he can continue to attract other wealthy victims to continue his sociopathic games hint at this.

[@secondbreakfastpod]

Fascinating comment, thank you! He also does most of his sneakiness at night when the sun is down.

[@monzersaid]

No ones sees the talented Mr ripely connections?? Even in that movie Gweneth said to Damon “ I know it was you “ very similar with her figuring out he’s a moth

[@CindyRichard-s3u]

@@monzersaid Oh I absolutely see the connection to The Talented Mr. Ripley - within the first 25 minutes of the movie actually. There was a lot of content that the Director "borrowed" from that film.

[@markbringelson4119]

My favorite film of the year, it's glorious & brilliant. GREAT commentary here, devoured it all!

[@secondbreakfastpod]

Totally agree with you, and we're glad you enjoyed the episode!

[@realmccoy18]

have none of you seen The Talented Mr. Ripley?

[@secondbreakfastpod]

Just wanted to thank you for this comment. Check out our latest video for a fuller response!

[@realmccoy18]

@@secondbreakfastpod glad you enjoyed it as much as i do.

[@docjc1842]

As a psychologist i really enjoyed this film. Its metaphorical plays on what we call parasitic living really blew me away!!

[@Riderules73]

you have to watch Parasite - excellent movie

[@badlilkitty96]

She is def Ophelia!

[@badlilkitty96]

Accept for the fact she prolly didn't do it herself..

[@DreamingCatStudio]

Such a powerful movie. Everyone was amazing. Oliver’s envy, sadness, desperation and evilness reminds me of The Talented Mr. Ripley.

[@secondbreakfastpod]

Right you are! You might want to check out our new episode for more on this comparison!

[@Camille_Anderson]

I had to go watch that movie again after Saltburn, just to exorcise myself from it, lol!

[@yakuzzi35]

I think Venezia is Venus, the goddess and also the morning and evening star. That's why the first time we see her she has stars on her pants. She represents female sexuality that's why she tries to sleep with all the guests there. Venus also represents beauty which is a curse. This is echoed in Venezia's own desire for beauty. By growing up her in mom's shadow (her mom is a former model) she developed an eating disorder.

[@ashnyc5426]

Great analysis! Now I need to watch this movie a third and probably a fourth time.

[@bcnmanhattan5022]

me too. a third tonight.

[@secondbreakfastpod]

Right? There's just so much to think about. It's a wonderfully dense story.

[@Skyliav]

This was a really interesting listen! I watched Saltburn yesterday and am going to watch it again tonight. My knowledge of classical literature isn't that extensive, but even I couldn't possibly miss the heavy symbolism, I just wasn't sure what it was referencing. This will come in handy in my rewatch. I'm especially going to focus on the blue/red thing, I completely missed that tbh, so thanks! But yeah, I think Saltburn was the most captivating piece of media I've watched since Parasite.

[@secondbreakfastpod]

Captivating is such a perfect word for it, thank you for sharing your thoughts - and please let us know what you find during your rewatch!

[@fkcamry88]

He wanted to beat Farley fair and square. Both thought that they’d end up on the “Iron Throne”.

[@secondbreakfastpod]

Interesting framing, I love the cross-pollination with GoT. How do you think Oliver would fare in Westeros?

[@fkcamry88]

@@secondbreakfastpod I think he’d be a mix of Little Finger and Ramsay Bolton, so fairly far.

[@natalija3628]

​@@fkcamry88or Varys perhaps, due to Oliver's symbolic representation of a spider knitting its web

[@EmaleeWistera]

It’s cool to see Emerald Fennell get so much attention on this movie, I remember growing up watching her in the bbc call the midwife

[@secondbreakfastpod]

This comment just led me down a fantastic rabbit hole looking into her acting career. I knew she was in The Crown but I had no idea there was so much more. Thank you for the comment!

[@johnmcgrath6192]

Yes, the film is about character. But characters do have social originsa nd settings. In many ways Saltburm is a cinema version of what used to be called a novel of manners, laying out how a social circle or a nation copnducts itself and sows the seeds of its self-destruction. A leftover aristocracy dedicated to holding on and saving themselves by focusing on trivia and rituals.Oliver is the Oxbridge upper middle class striving to rule the country (and succeeding), people like the faker Boris Johnson and the current crew of Tories.

[@johnmcgrath6192]

As Oliver says, he loved Felix but he was not in love with Felix. So what did he love about Felix? His class status? His charm? His importance? Did Oliver want to become Felix? And did he start out from the beginning to become Felix, to take over Felix's life? He conquers the family through erotic connection (except for the father). He conquers the farther by taking Felix from him, through murder, for certain killers an erotic act. Finally he conquers Felix, as he did by Felix's family, with sexual violation of Felix's grave. I am reminded of what I heard about what Pres. Johnson did on the plane back from Dallas to DC, namely violating JFK's corpse as an act of totally conquering his rival, as per a ritual among Mexican gangs when a new leader usurps the old leader. Did Oliver want to be with Felix? No, he wanted to take over as Felix. Did he not know of Felix's wealth from the beginning, had he researched Felix and Saltburn and then set his course to take over Saltburn? I think so. Oliver is too calculating not to know all about Felix's family and Saltburn. ... Felix had a tragic flaw, his privileged version of being nice. But is it nice to toy with other people's lives? Like Oliver he disposes of people. His kindness is performative, including "rescuing" Oliver from his alienation from family alienation, despite Oliver's objections. Felix in his performative kindness makes the decision for Oliver, as privileged rescuers do. ... By the way, the antlers Barry Keoghan wears evokes another Greek tragedy movie in which Barry starred, a film in which a family is destot=yed by the Barry Keoghan humble character/mythgological god ("The Killing of the Sacred Deer," stil on Netflix until Jan 4, I think). I would urge anyone who was imprtessed by Saltburn to watch "The killing of the Sacred."

[@W..949]

What did president johnson do to JFK, I’ve never heard this before?

[@robbgries2679]

The antlers and the oak leaves are a direct reference to Herne the Hunter, the ghost of Windsor forest and another Shakespeare reference. The antlers are not meant to be read as "Minotaur Lite" or "Bottom But Smarter." The Herne legend is described as a ghost who makes the cows produce blood instead of milk and haunts the otherwise idyllic Windsor forest. It is said "That having committed some great offence, for which he feared to lose his situation and fall into disgrace, Herne was induced to hang himself on this oak tree." (Samuel Ireland) In true subversion of the legend, when Oliver's lies are discovered by Felix and he is about to lose his place at Saltburn, he kills Felix instead of himself, so that he can continue to haunt Saltburn. I loved your discussion but there were several times when I felt like you guys were over-interpreting and mis-interpreting symbols to bend them to fit your thesis, rather than researching the symbols to see if they meant something other than your immediate interpretation. There is so much good stuff in your discussion however, that this is a very minor quibble. Good work.

[@secondbreakfastpod]

Interesting perspective, thank you for sharing. The Herne angle is absolutely fascinating!

[@eddiel7635]

Did you ever see the Robin Hood series from the 80’s called Robin of Sherwood. Herne the hunter was central in it, it got me really into English folklore and Celtic myths as a child. Read up about the links to Cernunnos and the green man. Which then links to Robin Hood, Jack in the green and Gwaine and the green knight. Incidentally, did you notice everything in folklore is either Jack or Robin. Robin redbreast, Robin Goodfellow, Robin Hood. Jack and Gill, Jack Frost. Jack and the Beanstalk. Jack the lad. Jack of all trades. Etc Even gets used later for Jack the Ripper.

[@CaroleEvans93436]

Oliver could've had a plan from the minute he walked into Oxford. We have a book over here called 'Who's Who' - which lists aristocracy, their relatives and family estate/castle etc

[@gitchygitchyyaya]

Oliver doesn’t love Felix. If someone believes this movie is what love is, it might be a sign to look within and figure out why that is - I believe many people (most people) have an unhealthy view/belief of what love is Neither were kind, forgiving, honest. Oliver wanted to crawl inside his skin and *be* him, I agree, but not in a romantic way. How can Oliver be Felix while Felix still exists? I feel Felix was dead - sooner or later. He was just an “in” to the lifestyle. I like the comparisons of Oliver to a vampire. Mostly metaphorically but ofc, literally at times. The characters invited him in, moved by his charm, and then he took their lives.

[@battalk]

this talk was so gorgeous! the mythology part i was thinking of but the way you guys talked about it made my brain implode!!! i love mythology, i think felix is also kinda ikarus with his golden wings, drinking even more, getting more pleasure out of the drugs, and then falling from grace in the shadow of the minitor. who is i remember corectly has his maze on a island, and Ikarus falls from his plesure into water? love the way you descibed certain things, im 100% gonna listen more of this podcast now!

[@LEASHA54]

Yeah mannnn... this was a brilliant one. Made me feel so many emotions. Mixed emotions. And I will never get over the bathtub scene🤢 I just will not. Edit: I just wanted to add after listening to you talk about being thrown for a loop...I was so caught off guard by Oliver, I actually felt betrayed...I was making all kinds of shit up in my head, is Saltburn full of vampires? Or psychopaths who chain people In their the dungeon of their mansion? Come to find out...it was OLIVER THE WHOLE TIME😳😮😮😮. I love being surprised. It's been so long since we've had a really good story like this. THE BETRAYAL!

[@jennasutton4701]

One of the best breakdowns i’ve seen yet.

[@secondbreakfastpod]

Thank you thank you! Maybe our favorite movie of the year!

[@imdoneplus]

I hope this isn’t a backhanded compliment, but your video auto played, and I assumed I was listening to a massive well established podcast. I rarely listen to content like this, as I don’t usually get much from it, but you guys have a good rhythm and are insightful. I hope you quickly find the success I already assumed you had, to absolutely deserve it!

[@luciaromanov2185]

just discovered your channel and i'm already hooked!

[@secondbreakfastpod]

Thank you thank you! We're happy to have you!

[@e.h.4933]

The movie is called Saltburn. He wanted Saltburn from the beginning...I have a feeling he knew about the house ahead of time before he ever set up the meeting w Felix. The poem they talk about (Farleigh and Oliver) at the beginning is about a Duke who kills a Duchess to get what he wants, which was speculated to be her money. He made love to Saltburn - not the people there. The people there he gave what THEY wanted. The only time that he truly releases himself, his true self, is when he is alone with the house or the grounds.

[@skerr44491]

Y'all did a fantastic job of breaking down this multi-layered work of art. One quick add -- Y'all said there's no red room, but there is. The room where Elsbeth dies is entirely red. And this further bolsters your red/blue theory.

[@alejandrovasquez3322]

yall deserve millions of subscriber such rich insight and good conversation!

[@secondbreakfastpod]

Thank you very much! Glad you enjoyed the episode!

[@joekellyou]

“I will not miss another film from him.” 👀 “The Eternals” 😂

[@mikespires6091]

Saltburn is an absolutely amazing film. Stunning, shocking , disturbing but absolutely amazing.

[@simonorourke4465]

Such a great analysis of such an awsome movie, as a huge fan of bridshead revisited I was already looking to this based on early trailers but I was so happy with the final result. Such a great performance from everyone involved especially Oliver and Felix's actors. I liked your idea that Oliver leaves Felix alive because he doesnt matter andn isn't part of the family anymore. My read on Farley getting to live is also that Oliver wanted him to see his eventual triumph and have to live with it. Farley is the character that on multiple occasions tells Oliver that he doesn't belong at Saltburn, he tells him that while Saltburn is his actual home Oliver will never be anything but a visitor who is soon to return to his mundane life. Farley rubs it in Oliver's face that he will never belong at Saltburn that he will never be anything but a voyeur looking in on the family of which Farley actually belongs. By allowing Farley to live Oliver is forcing him to watch Oliver come to own everything that he once considered his and whichbhe can never experience again.

[@Camille_Anderson]

I agree, it would be the ultimate revenge on Farley. He would be the only one who knows, but can't prove anything. He was cut off financially and out of their inner sanctum. Farley would take that as a fate worse than death, imho.

[@orchilhenry6971]

The Oak King

[@akirataifu8470]

I described Saltburn, mostly, as a dark modern fantasy.. thoughts?

[@secondbreakfastpod]

Ooh I love this classification!

[@DansLikeaRockstar]

As a person that is easily embarrassed by eveything I truly admire barry keohgan for being able to this role so confidently. Not everyone as the courage or the girth do to it so nonchalantly

[@secondbreakfastpod]

He gave a fearless performance!

[@dean1111]

I‘m gonna watch this later but just wanted to say that when I saw this video, esp the length, I got soo excited ahhh I love this movie

[@secondbreakfastpod]

Haha we hope you like it! The movie got us so hyped

[@walkingtheline1729]

I looked up fics on ao3 and there is so much for Felix and oliver. Its definitely for the girls

[@secondbreakfastpod]

haha I love this comment

[@dropinarte]

Would also like to add another Shakespeare angle: that for me, Oliver was very much dressed as Puck! Like I feel like Oliver‘s outfit was kind of demonic in a way and isn’t Puck lowkey a demonic trickster?

[@secondbreakfastpod]

Love this! Great catch!

[@eddiel7635]

In English folklore Puck is the same character as Robin Goodfellow, it’s a mischievous hobgoblin or elf that literately messes with Families whilst they sleep. In Germany Rumpelstiltskin is kind of similar.

[@eddiel7635]

Antlers are also obviously also associated with the devil, via the transition of Cernunnos or the horned god from Celtic mythology to Christianity.

[@AJDwatching]

The other guy talking over her wasn’t funny at 1:25

[@user-lx5gz2on2i]

agreed

[@duyanhng8430]

in my opinion Ollie abandonned or atleast put the idea of getting with Felix to the back of his mind as soon as he saw how the family treated Pamela, because if he really wanted to he wouldn't start to have sexual relation with most of Felix's family. I think he started his long game pretty soon into his stay at Saltburn, his chance of a happy ending with Felix ended as soon as he eat out his sister

[@biancachristie]

Thank you guys for having a literate, well-informed discussion of a film that absolutely merits this kind of analysis! I'm a lapsed academic, and I can't find much relatively elevated conversation on YT. I'm subscribing now and off to explore the rest of your channel. Please revisit this film anytime y'all feel the need--it's such a rich text and I can't wait for the director's commentary.

[@jefreylopez7708]

fantastic interpretations! thank you all for sharing 🫶

[@secondbreakfastpod]

Thank you thank you! Glad you enjoyed the episode!

[@Stillwater1967]

Masque of the Red Death comes up for me as well with the colored rooms

[@secondbreakfastpod]

Good catch, also sorta funny because Cam & Tristan did an audiobook of Masque of the Red Death a few years ago!

[@spookysimp]

something i’ve noticed - when the dad sees felix for the first time he says “Dear boy where have your trousers gone?” i think Oli was a little necro

[@ForReal_Lauren]

Ollie's nakedness in that final dance is his truest self. Shedding the camouflage, the chameleon he is. He no longer needs to hide or pretend.

[@secondbreakfastpod]

Yes, exactly! Well said

[@ForReal_Lauren]

@secondbreakfastpod I didn't even think you'd see my comment. Lol So cool! Excuse me while I geek out. 😅🤣🖤🫶🖤 You guys are the best.

[@haileyblain7765]

It says class of 2006 because that’s the semester starts in September of 2006, the following events at Salt burn take place in the following summer of 2007, June-august.

[@secondbreakfastpod]

Thank you, this makes total sense! I think part of doing a show like this is that some of your little brain farts are gonna happen live lol

[@gn4tbug]

i for some reason am still rooting for ollie idk why like i am aware he’s AWFUL and disgusting but idk bro maybe it’s just barry

[@secondbreakfastpod]

It's gotta be Barry. He makes Oliver so much fun to watch. He's layered and unpredictable, simple and volatile at the same time. What a magnetic screen presence!

[@Anime-chan-gl4pe]

I recommend a movie called Silver and the Dream book! I think there is a lot of references to Authrian folk lore in that movie.

[@secondbreakfastpod]

Ooh, thank you! We love viewer recommendations.

[@masonprov]

I think he does know. I think he had the “Secrets of Saltburn” book before he even went to Oxford.

[@secondbreakfastpod]

This is a fascinating observation, I love it!

[@Stillwater1967]

I caught a Marquis de Sade vibe. Marat Sade must be a reference. Esp the scene in the bathtub. Looks just like Marat in the bath

[@secondbreakfastpod]

Ooh love this too. Your analysis is fantastic, we're happy to have you here!

[@xfunk32]

Thank you for this amazing discussion about all the fine details in this movie! Especially about not seeing the movie as one plot where the main goal is the ending, but as just a dive into those interesting characters and visuals - I saw so many videos/comments about how the ending ruined the movie and that kind of took the fun out of the experience I had while watching the movie, but listening to you talk about it in that way made me love it even more !

[@Elizabethselby]

You're American. I'm American but have lived here for 25 years. I'm also an historian. It's a perfect example of rabbit hike human psyche but a modern reflection on serfdom. The servants, aware but inactive in response shows the status clearly.

[@lilibug.]

What about the music???? Especially the "Time to pretend"

[@alexjames7144]

I feel like this missed the primary thematic and visual references, shakespeare is so clear throughout every scene and every character it's insane. The greek mythology is there as reference and theme but it's massively overshadowed by the Shakespeare and in some ways serves to misdirect and show why the family don't see it coming. They're expecting a minotaur and they get instead, Puck from A Midsummer Night's Dream. Here you present him as the ass but his costume is clearly a visual nod to Puck, the trickster fairy who usually has some form of horns or antlers in modern portrayals. This characyer also fits more thematically as he is the real driving force for the plot of the play and manipulates the feelings and relationships of the rest of the cast without them realising it. They all represent characters and archetypes from shakespeare and despite having a prominently displayed collection of Shakespeare's folio, they don't see what's happening because they use them as set dressing. They are obsessed only with the aesthetics and so they miss the theme, and don't see the oncoming tragedy which is so clear to the audience. I'm also baffled by the weird tone this discussion takes, seeming to vilify Oliver and treat the Cattons as tragic victims. These people are cruel, vain, manipulative, stupid and have no right to the place they occupy in society. As Oliver makes clear in his closing monologue, they deserve it no more than he does, and if they can't hold onto it then it's his for the taking. They got it through a history of theft and oppression, him taking it is, if anything, more ethical. Because at least when he won it, it was on genuine merit. He went toe to toe with the family and walked away with everything they had. Especially in relation to Felix, the director has made it clear that he is no better than Oliver, that his misogyny and manipulation is clear in every scene. And her use of this character, with a charming and charismatic actor is somewhat of a litmus test for the audience. It seems you would indeed be taken in by his tall and handsome frame, his good manners and superficial charm. Unfortunately that's why those people usually go through life with a silver spoon in their mouth that noboy questions or tries to take away, but Oliver sees through it. He sees the spoon and takes it like candy from a baby because he can, and because Felix deserves it no more than he does. The true irony and cruelty in Farley's fate is missed, Farley is obsessed with his position in high society and through his insecurity (borne clearly from the precarity of that position) he taunts Oliver, mocks him and seeks to spoil his brush with it. He takes pains to insist that Oliver can only catch a glimpse, that Farley is better than him and that he'll never have what he has. In response, Oliver turns the tables on him, leaves Farley cut off and without access to the wealth. Instead of kill him, Oliver does something more ironic and apt, he makes Farley just like anyone else.

[@carpevinum8645]

The director said she wanted that tall aspect ratio so that the height of things was preserved. The walls and ceilings, etc aren't being cut off helping maintain the size of Saltburn.

[@mztgood]

Venetia with the blood can be perceived as she is ripe to bring heirs, furthering the caretakers of Saltburn, however Ollie's narcissistic tendencies bathes her in blood instead. That the blue blooded family (regarding Royalty) has been disrupted, decimated, and replaced....all while looking familiar, so no one is the wiser

[@manmaje3596]

I would say the central underlying theme is obsession.

[@paigehennigar6557]

thank you!! this is exactly the level of discussion and analysis of saltburn that i've been yearning for

[@skorpionlucylucifer-LightAngel]

The ultimate Oliver's "twist!"

[@CrazyCircleOriginal]

I’m so surprised and bummed Barry didn’t get an Oscar nom for this. He was perfection in this role.

[@secondbreakfastpod]

Right? It's heartbreaking. But hopefully the success of the movie means that he'll get more big roles in the future!

[@shaileshsingh6196]

Did Felix wanted to mend his relationship with Oliver as another surprise on Oliver’s birthday taking it to upper level…and is that why Felix got doubly hurt when he found out the truth!!?

[@secondbreakfastpod]

Interesting idea! Thanks for the comment

[@shaileshsingh6196]

@@secondbreakfastpod Had Felix not been lied he definitely would have kissed Oliver and surprise him to take their relationship to the next level!! I wish if this was in Felix’s mind.😭😭😭 The relation sometimes become so overwhelming that it goes beyond orientation/sexuality.

[@MissTinaTv]

Thank you for this deep dive into Saltburn. Perseus used a mirror to defeat Medusa, which is so connected to Oliver's story in that just like Perseus, he used mirrors to overcome fear by projecting it, however, for Ollie he deflects attention from his authentic identity and sucks the life from the others (bathtub, menstruation, breath) to become them; he's no hero. I loved this film. There are so many concentric layers to unfold. Wow. It will become a cult classic in no time. Cheers.

[@shaileshsingh6196]

@@MissTinaTv Strongly agree!! Spin off movies can be made from every single scenes in this movie.. as they all got us into thinking something!

[@dianeshelton9592]

I think that you have missed a large part of the movie that speaks to the UK audience . Emerald has been Oliver , she went to a very elite school where people had names like Goldsmith, Spencer Arbuthnot and Barclay. Emerald herself is very posh but not wealthy or aristocratic enough to fit in with those very posh people . She has no doubt been invited to parties at houses like that . And not quite fitted in . Rosamund Pike is also really quite posh. She is the daughter of opera singers and as such has no doubt been invited to large house parties and met Elspeths. She knows that tone where she says superficially nice things which are so dreadful because the tone. She says Elspeth death is a vindication for everyone who has met an Elspeth and been told in that tone “ oh you really are so clever” most people in the Uk know an Elspeth. Barry however is a child of foster homes and was no doubt completely in awe of that house and that life he never got to experience before becoming a renowned actor. I have no doubt he has now met Elspeths and been told “ oh you really are so clever “ Everyone in the UK understands those extra connotations in the film and it’s probably striking completely differently for us rather than a US audience. Class , privilege and condensation have are things we will have come up against. I myself have been to one of those parities , at the same time as my son was a waiter at the party and was seduced, happily , by a Ventitia just for her fun. He really enjoyed it too and understood that days fling wasn’t going anywhere at all. Carey again is the same background as Emerald and Rosamund, she has no doubt met a character like hers in the film. A hanger on with no where else to go It adds a special layer to see these actresses getting their personal revenge 😀

[@Gya2foonsj]

That’s a really cool fact

[@sliv70]

Oppenheimer was okay but kind of dry. Important history but didn’t move me emotionally. “Saltburn” and “The Holdovers” were my favorites recently. Saltburn was a surprise and lovely for so many reasons , it was brilliant. But in all honesty it mostly might have been because Barry Keoghan is absolutely mesmerizing. I first noticed him in “The Killing of a Sacred dear” which has to be one of the lamest movies ever. I really really hated it. But BK was so incredible in this that I found myself wondering about him and actually had to continue to the end for his performance. It might have been a lame movie but turn me onto him. In Saltburn he was perfect. He was incredible but the whole film was a gem.

[@secondbreakfastpod]

Barry Keoghan will do that! He's such a magnetic performer. Thanks for watching!

[@babettesfeast6347]

The grave scene is a reference to Wuthering Heights.

[@bcnmanhattan5022]

I liked you comment. Couldn't stop watching and I had a lot of things to do. Shame on you... LOL. I only disagree about Felix being the REALLY difficult character to play. Nonsense to me.

[@secondbreakfastpod]

Interesting, who do you think would be the most tricky?

[@kalikayy]

3:37 I knew it was 2007 when I saw Superbad 😅

[@secondbreakfastpod]

Ha! Between that and the Harry Potter books this movie might be the first great millennial period piece!

[@PhlesheBone]

THANK YOU for mentioning "A Separate Peace!" That was my initial expectation as well. I'm down a rabbit hole with this film rn and haven't seen anyone else mention it yet

[@Stillwater1967]

I totally agree with the Faustus analogy!

[@secondbreakfastpod]

This is the comment Cam has been waiting for his whole life

[@alexiamoreland992]

The grave scene does definitely demonstrate Oliver's genuine yearning for Felix, but there is also another scene where Felix is in the bath (for the second time), and Oliver wants to grab the door knob to the bathroom but stops himself and stands there against the door. I thought this scene said a lot especially in contrast to the way Oliver confidently uses sex to try to control other people.

[@masonprov]

I think the door was locked. Felix had already started shutting him out.

[@alexiamoreland992]

Ooh, good point. That definitely makes sense with the timing. I do think his response is still telling.

[@secondbreakfastpod]

Wow this is such a good catch!

[@thinkfirst1989]

Finally, some real analysis!

[@Gya2foonsj]

28:45 the part where you draw the identical connection between Oliver and Felix has me thinking of the playful interview with Barry and Jacob. Jacob said “emerald wanted Timothee Chalamet for the (Oliver’s) role” very jokingly. Ofcourse I thought it was a joke but I thought for a moment and thought : maybe emerald kind of wanted timothee for the role because he looks SO much like Jacob they could be siblings, but timothee is more “frail” and innocent looking. It would be understandable if Oliver played by timothee “wants to be Felix so badly” if they were more similar but one outdoes the other all the time. Just a food for thought.

[@Gya2foonsj]

I loved this so much!!!!!! No idea about Shakespeare because I’m Japanese but this was so fascinating to me I want to learn about English literature. Also would have LOVED to hear about Duncan the butler, and the meaning of “doppelgänger.”

[@irishfairytarot5674]

The white stag is the emblem of the house of york - Richard the 3rd's family/lineage

[@secondbreakfastpod]

Ooh I love this, great catch!

[@irishfairytarot5674]

@@secondbreakfastpod your welcome 🧐🤓🤫

[@Baslium]

this is analysis is good

[@secondbreakfastpod]

Why thank you! Glad you enjoyed the episode!

[@imdoneplus]

This podcast is so good I keep coming back over and over. I love this. Ps. I hate to be this guy, but it’s pronounced “Key-Hogan.”

[@marinatellz]

LOVED LOVED LOVED this analysis!!

[@secondbreakfastpod]

Thank you thank you! PS today's new episode has a lot more Saltburn discussion!

[@ohitshilary]

32:31

[@rcusick2465]

Barry KYO-gin Emerald Fih-NELL

[@lorihagerty7833]

At my high school in Oberlin, Ohio where Oberlin College is located we read A Separate Peace in my sophomore year in 1974. Schools would never be allowed to have this on the school curriculum now. I mention Oberlin College because it was such a progressive liberal arts college meaning that it had a great deal of influence on the Oberlin public school system. Anyway, times are different now. I’m grateful that we were able to read many wonderful novels. A Separate Peace being one of them. Thanks so much for bringing it up. I’m 65 now and still remember this novel fondly.

[@Westbound1990]

I read that book in high school in 2004 for summer reading.

[@capybaraconnoisseur]

0:40 me lmaooo i feel such a longing to walk into the theatre and see it again 😔😔

[@secondbreakfastpod]

Apparently it’s available on Prime now but there’s just a certain magic to going to the movie theater that this movie deserves!

[@d.carelli8036]

I can tell you guys are the rich ones in this dialog. 😂

[@sabrinasjourney]

Also Oliver - Oliver Twist 😉

[@JR-cj3jm]

Two wrong make a great movie!!!!!!!

[@gTr4yr4y]

It literally says 2006 what? Also, the ending is explicitly stated as 17 years later which makes it present day 2023.

[@secondbreakfastpod]

This definitely confused us! An interview with Emerald Fennell had her talking about 2007 (and Deathly Hallows definitely came out that year) but yes the 2006 bit made it confusing. Perhaps that puts it further into its own fever dream!

[@alexiamoreland992]

I think they were welcoming the high school class of 2006 at the beginning of the movie in the fall, but the summer after the school year ended would be 2007.

[@tamaraandric8867]

Srce za tebe!! I kisic

[@plaster.art.ho3]

4 of the scenes had me gagging crying screaming throwing up jesus christ

[@secondbreakfastpod]

Haha this might be my favorite comment