People Get Lost At Saltburn: A Video Essay

[@Elizabethselby]

I can't stress enough is that he is not lower class. He is solidly middle

[@renrants]

Totally agree, and it's still not even demonizing the middle class generally, Ollie's family is portrayed as kind, thoughtful, sweet people. It's Ollie and his pursuit of wealth and control that is the problem, and the Cattons own behavior enables him to predate on them

[@thisisbillgates]

There's really no middle class - there's the working class and the owning class

[@renrants]

I agree insofar as most "middle class" people are a lot closer to poverty than they realize, but I do think there is a very different living experience of middle class (or comfortable working class if you prefer), vs the situation Ollie presented which he framed as resembling abject poverty

[@kimnoir]

I wouldn't even say solidly - he seems upper middle class 😭

[@renrants]

@kimnoir solidly middle class is essentially upper middle class imo, but yeah, definitely not anything resembling the experience he claimed.

[@mrdad-zl9zl]

"He tries to daddy dom her out of an eating disorder" HAHAHA these were my exact thoughts during that scene!! But then later she doesn't follow his rules and we see this but nothing comes from it.

[@renrants]

Yeah, it's interesting how often his manipulations didn't work out the way he hoped 😅

[@lilij1915]

Farleigh is such a Regina George. Turns out he was right about Oliver but - he’s vicious too

[@renrants]

Yeah, the thing with Farleigh and Oliver is it feels like a "game recognizes game" moment. Their disdain for each other is because they're so similar, I think

[@renrants]

I think Farleigh is actually the Gretchen Weiners of the group, smart and capable, but stuck living in Regina's shadow with growing resentment, she also has friction with Cady, Regina's new favorite in the same way Farleigh and Oliver do.. Yes I've thought about this 🤣

[@lilij1915]

@@renrants haaa, on point!

[@amesie9384]

My take was he idolised him. A fine line between love and hate, jealousy is a strange thing.

[@renrants]

That's definitely a good read on it. I think he was definitely more in love with the idea of Felix that he put on a pedestal than the actual, flawed human being Felix was

[@renrants]

The jealousy is a great point though, I think part of Oliver's infatuation was wishing he was more like Felix, easily able to charm people etc.

[@amesie9384]

Yes definitely in love with an ideal! I’m unsure on his motivations I would love to know them. To begin with I thought he desired a social group and then more just Felix specifically but then that idea was scuppered also 😂

[@renrants]

From the way Fennell talked about it I think at first he saw Felix as a means to an end in terms of having an "in" with the cool kids. I think the infatuation began the moment he gave Felix his bike when Felix was super affectionate and grateful and escalated during their first little friendship montage. I think when he felt Felix pulling away, he made up the stuff with his dad and his family to seem more interesting, but just to stay close to Felix. I think his motivation switched to keeping and controlling Saltburn when Felix made it clear he'd never forgive Ollie and the only way Ollie could hold onto him was to possess him and his family. But I could also totally see Ollie having a crush from the start and manufacturing their little meet cute specifically because of that.

[@connortracey4536]

I just watched this movie last night and decided it fell flat for me because I thought that if Oliver was planning on eliminating everyone from the beginning and absorbing their estate, then his love for Felix is null and void. But when you mentioned that perhaps his plan from the beginning was to plant himself into Felix's life and that it only ended up the way it did because of Oliver's experiences at Saltburn and how everything kind of spiraled out of control, actually made me like this movie more because that was the only thing I didn't really understand. Thank you for making this :)

[@renrants]

Thank you so much for your kind words, I'm glad the video had some value for you :)

[@Argeaux2]

Felix deliberately left a crack in Oliver’s bedroom door, so he would be seen. He can’t get enough of being seen by the underclass. It’s what makes him feel cool.

[@cidevant002]

Actually, out of all the character, domination through sex might be the only way to get to the cousin because in a previous scene it was already established that he was kicked out of a bunch of schools for seducing teachers. Assuming that he was an adult and not an underaged groomed teenager when that happens, then Ollie knew already that sex was a big part with the guy that he could use. And if the cousin was underaged when that happened, and it happened multiples times in fact, with multiple teachers, then he having no reaction to Ollie's actions and just staying there to take it have a much, much, much darker implication.

[@deenad3562]

Good observation, I forgot about Farleighs preceding reputation.

[@ChildrensRightsFirst947]

Oh, that's interesting.

[@adamsandlerreal9200]

your interpretation of the minotaur symbolism (felix being the minotaur and ollie being theseus) is actually so insightful! i've only ever seen people compare oliver the minotaur but i've only just realised that it sort of works both ways

[@renrants]

Thank you! There's definitely a lot of interesting interpretations out there, but I was surprised to see most people associated him with the Minotaur

[@elizabethelrod2816]

I can't believe it got shut out of the awards shows.

[@renrants]

It is a bit surprising considering some of the nominations, but it's also such a strange and polarizing movie I can understand how it got snubbed despite being so interesting. I'm sure it'll win other awards though, because it really is beautifully crafted

[@Elizabethselby]

@@renrants exactly

[@Elizabethselby]

@@renrants you so get it.

[@Elizabethselby]

This is what some Americans don't get... I'm American but have lived in England for 25 years in and off. My eldest is a masters candidate at Cambridge. The house Olly grew up in is not the story he told. His class is distinctly upper middle or middle class, which is very different from American middle class. He wasn't poor. His house is in par with one Kate Middleton grew up in and is worth probably close to 1mill. Pounds. He came from solidly educated parents. My eldest attended probate boatding school,and was told by a teacher( who was an honourable from Wedgwood and a descendant of Darwin) that certain things make you middle class. If one parent had private education (I did). One parent has a university degree (I did) and oddly how or where do you keep the butter. My eldest answered the butter dish (I'm southern and traditionally that's where butter goes) this apparently elevated her to middle or upper middle class. The discrepancy with classes here is that it pits the aristocracy against middle class to make them feel more normal. Benevolent. The lower classes are representative of serfs tied to a feudal land and by the servants. Who don't like the middle class Oliver, but are loyal to the aristocracy and not just with money. You can see their disdain when the butler kicks him out, the lunch scene. Just an alternative opinion. Brilliant film. Really good. Talented mr ripley may give it better context because it's so straight forward, but this is one of the best things I've seen in years.

[@greyLeicester]

Lol Brits and their snooty ways... I keep the butter in a butter dish, went to private school and have a university degree and Im as working class as it gets 😂😂😂😂 Pd. Im not a Yank nor a Brit

[@renrants]

Yeah, I live in the US and my mom is a doctor, so I was raised under pretty privileged circumstances (almost went to private school, even toured some, but we couldn't quite justify the cost 😅) so middle class in terms of privilege, but "working class" insofar as our lifestyle depended entirely on my mom continuing to work. I do think there's definitely a spectrum though insofar as some working class people actively live in poverty and that's not an experience someone like me or Oliver can claim if that makes sense

[@ltrask13]

​@@renrantsYou do realize that working class (at least in the US) doesn't mean "you have to work", right? In my experience, a doctor is not considered working class, they're professional class. Obviously the work, and probably hard, but it doesn't fit the class distinction as used here. I'm a cook, I consider that working class. My partner is an engineer, that's professional class.

[@renrants]

The are various definitions, some that include professionals, some that are more strictly defined as low wage work, but even trades can muddy the water in terms of compensation

[@ginao6810]

I get you. I’m Australian, so am familiar with the British and American differences on class. American classes are more fluid and based on income; that social mobility is the basis of the “American Dream”. British class is far more rigid. The Middleton’s are the perfect example. Self-made people born middle class and became millionaires through their businesses. But are still only now considered “upper-middle class” (royal marriage muddies things slightly, but not as much as one would think). That’s the ceiling for the Lowe and middle classes. Upper classes are aristocracy. Titles, peerage, shit you are born into irrespective of wealth. You can be Sir Something Someone, have no land, no money, be broke, and you’re still considered upper class because of your family name and the title you inherited. Yet there Middletons, who have millions, are still upper middle class. That’s part of Farley’s point: no matter what Oliver does in his life he will never truely be “one of them” because he wasn’t born into it. Even at the end, he isn’t Sir Oliver Quick. He didn’t inherit the title. He still won’t be accepted by the other upper class folks. Something many Americans don’t seem to understand

[@lilij1915]

I love the unique faces in this film

[@renrants]

I love how a lot of British shows and movies have unique looking actors for sure!

[@UnseamedComet]

I love the comparisons to Greek mythology in your video. What interests me are the people that own the mansion they shot at and why they'd let this movie get made there when it seems like a very strong indictment of the way they live 🤔

[@renrants]

That's a great point. Apparently one of the owners even has a cameo in the party scene and the same family has had the house since like 1097 or something :o

[@alexjames7144]

I think the most clear parallel is that Ollie represents Puck in A Midsummer Night's Dream, a horned trickster fairy who plays with the relationships of others causing them to fall in and out of love. It fits with the rest of the characters and their outfit choices, Elspeth is the fairy queen, Felix the handsome protagonist (he clearly fits more neatly into a tragedy, though realistically, he's from romeo and juliet and in the wrong play), Farly the fool that gets given the head of an ass, Venezia the tragic heroine. The cast fit more solidly and smoothly into the roles of a shakespearean play than greek mythology, this is made more clear and fun with the use of a Midsummer Night's Dream specifically. A comedy without tragic ending set in ancient greece. They don't expect tragedy, it doesn't happen to them. So when Ollie plays his part too well they don't see it coming. They're all blind to what play they're in, but Ollie sees what's happening and pushes the events, like in the play it's the trickster fairy that controls everything and not the heroes, heroines or kings.

[@renrants]

Oooh this is great analysis, definitely better than mine on the Shakespeare stuff. I also think there was some Romeo and Juliet elements, especially with Felix's costume

[@alexjames7144]

@@renrants I have heard some people point to parallels between Venetia and Ophelia, which makes sense as she also doesn't have as clear a parallel on Midsummer Night's Dream but I'm not familiar enough with all of Shakespeare to really comment on that one myself. I've also seen Richard III (again the play) discussed because the King, Richard, gets his way by manipulating people and at some point it stops working, someone sees through it. Like how Felix and Venetia, the only characters from a tragedy and not a comedy, see through the tactics and he can't control them anymore. Which is why he has to kill them.

[@renrants]

@alexjames7144 your analysis is legitimately so good I'm a bit jealous 😂 The Ophelia parallels there, especially with how she meets her end. Richard the III is one of his plays I know the least about if I'm being honest, but that's a very interesting connection for sure

[@BoraGuven-jg9rj]

Incredibly well prepared video essay. I especially liked the comparison with the Greek mythology.

[@renrants]

Thank you so much for your kind words! A lot of work went into it for sure 😅

[@Shirley.Temper]

I don’t know if this is a reach but the butler always reminded me of the major motif in the Great gatsby - the advert sign with the giant spectacles and eyes being like god watching everything. I kinda saw the butler as the same type of figure, all seeing but powerless to intervene. Idk why I just kept going back to that imagine when he was onscreen!

[@renrants]

Oh wow this is a great connection and observation! Thank you for sharing

[@debbieparnell7582]

I find it very misogynistic the way so many people are completely missing the film's depth - Emerald Fennell clearly meticulously planned and carried out a complex vision with layers that need dissecting to fully appreciate that still make for an incredibly entertaining film without understanding... if the mastermind behind it was a man instead people would assume depth even if it wasn't intended.

[@renrants]

I think there's definitely some truth to that, especially when interviewers would ask her if she did obviously intentional things on purpose 😭

[@debbieparnell7582]

@@renrants yeah so disappointing, though thanks for providing the subtext and symbolism for those of us who want it.

[@bev9708]

I thoroughly enjoyed your take on this outrageously fun movie … I thought it was a total hoot!! I do so love movies full of so much detail that it’s quite a different experience watching it the second time, which I did the second it finished the first time, ´cause a bit like Ollie, I literally did not want to leave this world behind!!! Besides, can we ever get enough of Barry Keoghan??? Wow he is sooooo goooood!!!

[@renrants]

Thank you so much! Totally agree, it was such a great time and so beautiful, you gotta love it. Emerald Fennell is a genius and I'll watch Barry Keoghan in anything

[@RonaldMorgan-n7o]

Provocative, I loved it! Rosamund Pike deserved an Oscar nomination.

[@renrants]

She was so good

[@kimnoir]

6:59 I haven't finished watching the video yet, but I wouldn't exaaaaactly call Farleigh a charity case. Sir James is his uncle via his mother therefore if the movie was legally accurate (aka didn't have a plot whole), Elspeth wouldn't be able to will the home to Oliver so easily. Saltburn would be Farleigh's or his mother's (as well as the title). Even if they both died, there'd have to be a distant relative somewhere, the media (probably seeing as his death was widely publicized in the papers), and a ton of lawyers to protest such a thing. Farleigh is virtually as blue blooded as Felix (not sure about Elspeth's background though. Maybe she comes from a rich, famous, and/or aristocratic family? Nonetheless, he's still at least half and his bloodline runs deep hence the home and paintings in The King's Room). The only difference is that Sir James's parents give him (probably) most or all of the inheritance, causing Farleigh's fully aristocratic mother (his sister) to rely on him. In addition to this, Sir James has essentially taken his nephew in as his "kind of step-son not really but kind of" since he was a younger teenager (he has a pretty unaffected American accent soo.. I'm a bit iffy about this one. I feel like if he stayed there for as long as he probably did his accent would be at least slightly less American - also, he's still a teenager (about 19) in the film, I believe?) and Felix is basically an older brother to him. He's a dependent, yeah, but so is Felix as his son. Edit: Wow, I didn't mean for my comment to be that long - anyways, don't get me wrong, he definitely was a bit of an outcast among the family (especially with the begging *for his mom* and a couple of other things) but your phrasing kind of made it sound like he isn't the 5th (after Elspeth, Felix, Venetia, and his mother I think) heir to millions, a huge house that resembles a castle, tons of servants, and an aristocratic title.

[@renrants]

I mostly used that phrasing because that's how he was framed by the Cattons. I think whether there would be heritability issues with the home would depend on whether it was left entirely to Sir James as it was implied Farleigh's mother had inherited her own separate share of the family fortune, and Farleigh would only inherit automatically if there weren't a will, which Sir Catton may have written him out of when he cut him off. That said, I don't know much about UK inheritance laws and how they differ from those in the US or Canada Farleigh would also need to be able to independently hire a lawyer, which would either mean a retainer or a good enough case for someone to take it on contingency, it sir Catton cuts him off at the end of the movie so it seems unlikely he could afford those kinds of legal resources on his own Either way, thanks for your insightful comment

[@kimnoir]

@@renrants Sorry for not clarifying, I probably should have mention the legal issues with willing it to Oliver: the laws of english primogeniture would not allow it to happen (because it wasn't Elspeth's to will away). I would agree in saying the Cattons present Farleigh as visibly distant from the family to from a film standpoint, show Oliver and Farleigh as two sides of the same coin (which is what I think you and the movie were accurately getting at); however, in my opinion the film pushes this narrative too far, beyond "logic" (in the sense that socially, being mixed and having a mother that has fallen from grace (and is financially dependent on her brother) and gone to America has shaken his social status among the family, but that's about where this distance ends. What he said when confronting Oliver at the party basically speaks for itself. They're similar and can relate to eachother due to the parallels of what they've been through in terms of social climbing (note: I found it funny how Farleigh has parents that actually have issues whereas Oliver is the actual imposter), but they're still on completely different levels). Low or upper middle class, a summer at Saltburn is still the dream he'd be telling to his kids. That's just how different they are despite the glaring similarities. -Thanks for your response! I got distracted so I still haven't finished the video but I love how you're analyzing the various symbolism and dynamics.

[@deenad3562]

💯 *Absolutely perfectly comprehensive review. Answered all my questions and uncertainties where others didnt. Thank you!*

[@renrants]

That's so nice of you to say, I'm glad you enjoyed it! Thank you ❤️

[@blackelton7127]

The characters are very well written and acted. Venetia and Felix were especially good characters, which remind me of people i've met in real life who were from a land-owning family (I don't mean that they owned a house and garden, I mean that they owned a LOT of land). Venetia's mannerisms and dialogue are very nostalgic of a certain type of 2000's UK posh girl. Felix is an interesting character. Although he is an obvious choice for one to direct their envy towards, being rich, handsome, popular and well-connected in a very convincing sense, he is in reality a fairly nice, if not stuck-up and spoilt guy. He's the type of person that you almost wish was a complete idiot, so that you could write him off as a spoilt brat, but when he shows some redeemable features, it makes life seem even more unfair. I think that it makes Oliver's actions towards him towards the end more impactful; Felix was actually a victim and didn't really deserve his fate. I've been lucky to make friends with people from all different sections of UK society, from people escaping the most crime-ridden estates in the country to people who studied at Oxford and similar places. It taught me to be grateful for what you have and that there are good and bad people at every level of society. Perhaps the lesson that Saltburn teaches is that it's not necessarily those born at the bottom or the top who are the dangerous ones, but the ones who are willing to do anything and hurt anyone to move up the hierarchy. On another note, this film strangely makes me think of Ghislaine Maxwell and her weaving her way into the Royal Family - anybody else?

[@renrants]

I think this is insightful, but I do think there's a point of wealth hoarding that does make you a bad person, even if you're "nice." Felix definitely has redeeming qualities, but he also has flaws and most of them stem from his privileged and wealthy upbringing

[@blackelton7127]

@@renrants it’s interesting that the family appear to descend from Henry VIII, as he lead the English reformation and rebellion against the Catholic Church. When Henry and his aristocrat peers revolted, they looted and pillaged a lot of the Catholic monasteries and confiscated a lot of Church wealth and property. Many of the stately homes like Saltburn are built on lands that the Church once owned. These lands were open for peasant farmers to use to raise their cattle and work on. When Henry and his friends confiscated these lands, they kicked the peasants off and made the lands into their own estates (raising their own personal livestock for the booming wool industry). You could argue that Felix’s ancestors originally came into their wealth in a similar way to how Oliver tried to take theirs. Interesting and not sure if anyone noticed this link to Henry VIII!

[@audreykroger]

Is it weird to say I liked Oliver’s character because he’s like the most toxic version of masking. It’s not canon but I feel like he’s autistic. Not because he’s weird. Just the story of him not being able to make friends naturally leads to him reading people well and saying what they want. He’s just so insecure

[@renrants]

I think that's an interesting interpretation and he definitely feels coded that way!

[@audreykroger]

I just relate to lying to please people which is something to work on. Also that he’s better with people one on one. It seemed relatable except for the sexually charged watching scenes.

[@zab416]

Felix makes me wonder if he could have become a better person if he'd lived. Not such a "fair-weather empathy" kid. I think he had potential for that because he was young, even if the odds were stacked against him because of his privilege, looks, being sheltered, etc. But on the other hand, lots of 20-somethings suck at morality and evolve. I was friends with a few pathological liars as a young person so I definitely felt for Felix there. None of my old friends held a candle to Oliver and became fairly functional adults, I think, thankfully!

[@renrants]

I think that's really interesting. I'm not sure if Felix would have ever become better than he is, because as far as we can see, in his life there was no impetus for him to change, people love him and give him whatever he wants the way he is, so there's not really any reason for him to be deeply introspective about how he treats people. I definitely relate to being friends with pathological liars as a kid/teen, I think it's pretty common for young people and just another thing insecure people do to seem more interesting, and once most people grow up, they learn to manage insecurity more effectively

[@HeatherHolt]

The sister got it right when she said olis a moth. I saw Felix as innocent ignorant and kind (esp how he was w olis parents). I always wondered why the butler allows olí to do what he does… I thought maybe they were in cahoots but it’s never explored. He’s always watching but does nothing? I thought maybe the butler loved the dad like olí loved/craved Felix and that’s why he stuck around. Why didn’t olí take down the dad? He was weak minded like the rest of em. The grave scene was harder to watch than the bathtub scene for me, that poor drain got rimmed without giving permission! 😂 LOVED the aesthetic. Loved.

[@renrants]

I think she was right he's a moth and obviously wrong he's harmless (but hey there are carnivorous moths 👀) I don't think Felix was innocent or necessarily a good person, although he was very charming and gregarious and did have some moments of kindness and compassion, but the kindness was often a product of a savior complex that ultimately centered Felix and his feelings. And we often see him be petulant or use people. Although he did have some moments of genuine decency like with Ollie's parents or even when Ollie confronted him in the maze, so he certainly wasn't all bad either I think Duncan knew instantly that Ollie was a climber and suspected he was responsible for Felix and maybe even Venetia. But I think he probably couldn't prove it, and seeing how slippery Oliver is, he could have ended up being blacklisted or disowned by the family if he accused him without proof. It would likely have been especially tricky with how charmed Elspeth was with him as well. Totally agree on the aesthetic though! It's such a gorgeous movie

[@renrants]

I think Ollie didn't take down sir James because the opportunity didn't present itself, so he just took the check and bided his time 😅

[@lilij1915]

This was fun I enjoyed it! Nice work 🌸

[@renrants]

Thank you ❤️❤️

[@gerbil_is_typing]

Great insights! When I think about the comparison of Oli to a moth, I am reminded of how moths eat away at clothing which remains unused and hung up in closets. It matches the messy decadence of Saltburn, as you pointed out in the way of littered cigarettes and the flypaper-adorned chandelier. And only after the whole family has been eaten away, Oli flutters about the empty estate, naked and batting against the shiny ornaments. Also, Oli's psychopathy is quite realistically portrayed. He is intelligent, but not top-of-the-class like he claims. He is a manipulative shape-shifter - when one strategy fails, he unflappably changes tact. Oli is so hollow and insincere that we know nothing about him by the end, only what we've observed about his behavior (and even then, we are limited to as voyeuristic a perspective as Oli's). I am also reminded of a tonally different but thematically similar film called Nitram (2021), based on a real life psychopath and the bizarre events that precipitated the worst mass murd** in Australia back in 1996. It's another incredibly well-done film with a fantastically talented cast - Essie Davis's (The Babadook) portrayal of an isolated heiress particularly draws comparison to Saltburn. Highly recommended, but like I said, it has a very different tone. It is a bleak film with unrelenting dread. To end my comment on a brighter note, Emerald Fennell makes a special appearance in Barbie (2023) as Midge the (discontinued) Pregnant Barbie🤰🏼😆 Additionally, Margot Robbie (Barbie) was a producer for both Saltburn and Promising Young Woman.

[@renrants]

This is wonderful analysis, thank you so much for sharing! I might check that film out. I love how often women produce, write and direct some of my favorite films these days, it makes me so happy

[@gerbil_is_typing]

​@@renrants Thanks for facilitating an engaging dialogue! Love to see fellow queer folks in film analysis. I really appreciate Fennell's creativity, especially since she started out as an actress. I also take notes on her brilliant rebuffs of (misogynistic) criticism. Looking forward to seeing what she does next. 😊 You might also find the film Swallow (2019) interesting. Haley Bennett is an utterly captivating performer, I totally have heart-eyes for her lol. No one else has ever made an ice cube so mesmerizing.

[@renrants]

@thembroidery I loved her in Call The Midwife 😅 Thank you so much for your kind words and for the recommendations, I'll definitely check them out! 😊

[@day7645]

Starting with THAT scene, oh my... 😳

[@renrants]

Go big or go home 😤🤣

[@porsorodis7985]

What a great video!! And a fantastic video essay!! I loved it so very very much! 🤩❤️❤️

[@renrants]

Thank you! :)

[@ltrask13]

I'm one of the people who thought this movie was style over substance. However, I love style and aesthetics, so I didn't hate it. I prefer something beautiful that also has something to say, but if I can't have that, I'll take something beautiful. I really appreciated your analysis of it in comparison to Greek mythology, that gives it more substance to me, personally. I also think the nuance of class dynamics shown in this film hit harder with UK audiences than US. There's a layer of subtext we're missing

[@renrants]

Thanks so much for your kind words, and I agree the context is a bit different than US class politics in a way that I think US Audiences can have a hard time engaging with

[@gmatgmat]

A world beyond my comprehension. Another interesting review. Thank you. What happened to the staff by the end. I would imagine that some would have the ear of the family and would pounce on him like white blood cells.

[@renrants]

Apparently the movie was supposed to end with Duncan serving him the wrong eggs again 🤣 Duncan definitely knows what he did

[@ZDixon-io5ww]

lovely video and a fun review

[@renrants]

Thanks so much for your kind words! :)

[@Schwee_OG]

Really solid essay! Could you do 'Promising Young Woman' as well? Love Emerald Fennell.

[@renrants]

I might! I had started writing an essay on it when it came out, but school got in the way and it got back-burnered indefinitely 😅

[@AmIDeadYet]

Would you welcome a sequel to Saltburn with Oliver in Saltburn inviting people back there to stay with him? would be interesting i think.

[@YumLemmingKebabs]

This movie seems so weird and definitely not my kinda thing. I've seen several other videos about it and it seems so unpleasant, but it's always cool to get your perspective on things. Even if I can't really contribute much of anything. I hope the bit about the end of the movie doesn't cause issues for you. I've basically never seen nudity in a youtube video before.

[@renrants]

I think it should be fine vis a vis the nudity, they didn't flag it or anything, it's not really lingering shots or anything 😅 It's definitely a weird and vaguely unpleasant movie, but it is also pretty funny and the aesthetic is really cool, probably not one I'll watch regularly, but I'm glad I saw it

[@londonbatehead2438]

It was brilliant up until the last 30 minutes in my opinion

[@renrants]

I actually thought the last 30 minutes recontextualized the rest of the film in an interesting way, but it definitely felt like a pretty abrupt tonal shift for sure

[@janthran]

you missed so much of the film that it's like we watched a different movie. i used to be a lot like oliver, like, scary lot. and i knew a guy who was a lot like felix. the dynamic is like, not what people think it is i didn't catch the minotaur-theseus connection though, that was really interesting

[@renrants]

Could you elaborate more on what's different about the film/character dynamics and the way you interpreted them based on your experiences vs my interpretation? Since I'm obviously not an MLM I absolutely can imagine there are subtleties to the dynamics that I missed completely and I'd love to hear more about that

[@janthran]

@@renrants honestly i started typing out a whole thing for that earlier comment but i feel like to get my point across i would have to make my own whole essay about it. the most glaring thing is that oliver was not trying to take saltburn from the beginning, and in the dynamic of loner with a gregarious wealthy crush is a kind of love where you wish you could be the other person.

[@renrants]

That's valid 😅 I don't really think Ollie was after Saltburn from the start, just that he did intentionally deceive Felix to get close to him from the start, since he didn't start murdering until after Felix made it clear he planned to cut him off permanently, I think it was more about possessing Felix than the house

[@kevinpoole6122]

Just discovered your channel today-your analysis of this film (my personal favorite of ‘23) is among the very best on KZbin. Intelligent, well-researched, witty, and insightful. The queer literary references are immense: Felix’s casual mention of Evelyn Waugh (*Brideshead Revisited* - scandalously homo erotic in its day); *The Talented Mr Ripley* from the caustic lesbian pen of Patricia Highsmith, a murderous tales of unrequited homosexual love; and lesbian-but-only-for-the-*right*-girl, Daphne du Maurier’s vampiric Mrs Danvers of *Rebecca!* And the *ALMOST* too obvious of both the social and sexual positions of the character Farleigh chose for the costume party, Bottom. 😎 Finally, two small conventions of pronunciation: 1) Sotheby’s - SUH-thuh-bees -three syllables; and 2) while scholars cannot know for certain, as dictionaries, let alone diacritical markings, were unknown during Shakespeare’s time, the Royal Shakespeare Company’s received pronunciation of Titania is tuh-TAY-nyuh. Thank you 🙏 for a glorious half-hour well-spent!

[@renrants]

Thank you so much for your kind words! I totally realized I pronounced Sotheby's wrong after the fact, I read off a prompter and sometimes I accidentally read a word wrong in the moment and don't notice with embarrassing results 😂 I didn't realize that was the correct pronunciation of Titania though, thank you for the correction :)

[@macmacie]

God, no matter how many times I watch this movie I can't help cringing and shivering at the scene with Oliver's parents. I know what's going to happen but is just so !!! It makes me sick every time 😩

[@renrants]

It's so excruciating 😭😭😭

[@JazzyJonas]

If Oliver was poor and the lies he told were true, it would have come off as a class struggle story rather than the complex love/hate story it really was.

[@renrants]

Totally, I thought the reveal was actually really masterfully done and added a lot to the story

[@windgraceproject]

Ack. I'm so sorry, I almost forget to algorithm comment. And after you asked so nicely and everything!

[@renrants]

Hahaha, no worries! I appreciate you ❤️

[@deenad3562]

*Interestimg that he said these last years (presumably the ones living off the money from the dad) were the best of his life. Wonder what he was doing in all that time. Did he go back and graduate? Did he reconnect with his family? Or did he assume an entirely alternate persona?* Any insights?

[@renrants]

I think he said the last few months and was talking about the time he spent at Saltburn with Elspeth, but I might be misremembering. I'm sure the money form Sir James helped 🤣

[@renrants]

I do think he's lying though and the happiest he ever was was with Felix

[@deenad3562]

@renrants I had to go back, you're absolutely correct, he said months....but the way he was dancing at the end, those last months knowing he had only 1 to go (the mother) and the whole lot would be his. That rivals a teen obsession anyday, for a greedy psychopath like him. 😫

[@renrants]

I suppose you may be right there, haha! What a wild little guy for sure 😅

[@AmIDeadYet]

I haven't seen the killing of a sacred deer yet. Is It worth watching? may watch it some time this week.

[@renrants]

It's an interesting movie, not necessarily an enjoyable watch for everyone, but worth seeing at least once, even if like myself, you don't end up loving it

[@deenad3562]

*Another question, there was a quick scene with the mother signing a document with some gentlemen overseeing, was that supposed to be her signing over Saltburn to Oliver when she was ill and he was taking care of her? It wasn't clear.*

[@renrants]

Yes, I think that was Elspeth updating the will, which is why Oliver is watching and Duncan looks displeased

[@deenad3562]

@@renrants ahhhh that's it!

[@kimwhatmatters4085]

Not the kissing booth 😂😂😂😂

[@bivekhunjan2888]

Omg! I love your blouse my I ask where did you get it from ?

[@renrants]

Thank you so much! I think it's from The Midnight Hour

[@bixby232]

I think id view this movie very differently if i found jacob elordi attractive. He is a good cast in the fact that hes a very conventionally attractive charasnatic man that people are draw to tho

[@renrants]

That's totally valid 😅 he's definitely not my type either

[@vanessa9024]

I literally screamed out loud when he kissed Vanesha and you see her period blood stretched as they deep kiss 😵 and I screamed WTF out loud when he tounged the bath tube drain lmfao😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 I was honestly shocked by those two scenes. I’ve never seen anything like it!

[@renrants]

It definitely made me physically squirm in my seat and say "no no no no no no" out loud to both 🤣

[@ladyredl3210]

I don’t think it was supposed be be a class critique, I think it’s supposed to be camp. But oh well.

[@renrants]

I also don't think it was intended to primarily be a class critique that just ends up being a bit inevitable with the subject matter

[@ladyredl3210]

@@renrants agreed. Great commentary, regardless.

[@cassielcruzchavolla809]

I think saltburn is just a fun film, like I don't get the "pretentious" allegations when it's very clearly a dark comedy. Yes, it doesn't say much about class and stuff, but I don't think that was its intention anyway. Like, I get not finding it funny but I think people are mad at what it isn't rather than at what it actually is.

[@renrants]

It's very strange because a lot of the reviews hating on it spend the bulk of the time praising it and then say they didn't like how it presented class issues, but I thought it was actually a fascinating exploration of the emptiness of wealth. I agree it was mostly a fun, dark comedy and people definitely seem to be more upset that it didn't meet their expectations than they are about the actual content of the movie. I'm also surprised by all the allegations that it's boring 😅 I think there are some pretentious moments, but I don't think that was an accident and actually bolsters the overall tone of the film

[@cassielcruzchavolla809]

@renrants yeah this whole discourse is weird tbh, I do find people bringing up Fennell's upbringing to critique it kinda unnecessary, though.

[@renrants]

Yeah, it's not a criticism I see directed at other directors, especially men, who come from privileged backgrounds. Especially considering her family doesn't exactly have Catton wealth 😅 I understand that the subject matter means implicit class commentary is going to happen whether it's intentional or not, but I keep seeing people claim the Cattons are framed as like, nice, when they aren't? They're charming, but they're horrible people

[@cassielcruzchavolla809]

@renrants excatly, it blatantly obvious with how they treated poor dear Pamela. I do think people expected Fennell to insert explict social commentary, especially as her first film was a feminist film.

[@renrants]

Yeah, and to be fair there was some, but the tone of this film was really different from Promising Young Woman, which was also really polarizing. I found so many people had unfair interpretations of that film as well, and I find it frustrating because it's okay if you don't like it, but so weird to try and demonize her for how she chose to tell the story I think some people would have been mad no matter what she did

[@deenad3562]

*One question: are we to assume the black womans husband was once a "guest" at the home? Anymore to that?*

[@renrants]

Oh that's interesting, since the husband was one of The Henrys ™️ I think he was probably titled or upper class in his own right since Sir James seems pretty old fashioned

[@deenad3562]

@renrants ok thanks, I wasn't sure what to make of that exchange except that he seemed to entertain Them at the expense of embarassing his wife

[@babettesfeast6347]

He isn’t lower class but upper middle class with wealthy parents, the difference between Felix and Oliver is very small. Working class people are rare at Oxford which has an elitist admissions policy. It’s clearly based on The Talented Mr Ripley.. it’s an amazing film you need to watch. By the way your video is the best analysis of the film I’ve ever seen. I hope your channel gets more subscribers because you put a lot of research into the film. Another huge reference is the 1981 TV series of Brideshead Revisited based on the novel, which is sensational. Highly recommended.

[@shaileshsingh6196]

Did Elspeth and Sir James died of Covid??

[@renrants]

Oh wow I hadn't even considered that, I kind of thought Oliver had something to do with Elspeth and Sir James left the mortal coil voluntarily, but especially since Eslpeth was on a ventilator that does actually make a lot of sense

[@shaileshsingh6196]

@@renrants also Farleigh trying to frighten Oliver with that Blue eyed pork getting roasted! I

[@renrants]

Ooh another great catch, that scene was so intense

[@jaimepe4765]

Worst part of this movie, besides the gay bait, is that it seems to be a cautionary tale for the rich, filmed from the point of view of the rich. The director/writer called out people wo was calling it a class movie, or an Eat the rich movie, but that was impossible to leave behind. It's not a love story, as she pretentiously wanted to present her flick. It's the story of a monster (hey, minotaur!) who infiltrated this "poor" rich family and ate them all from the inside... and what makes him a monster is that we have no clue of Oliver's motivations. The actor's wonderful acting skills fall under the weight of an incomplete written character.

[@renrants]

I don't see it as a cautionary tale for the rich, I think the cautionary tale is the emptiness of wealth and the idea that anyone who pursues or keeps that wealth becomes hollow. For example, we see that Oliver's family are nice, normal, sweet people. Oliver is an abberation. The Cattons also aren't presented as good people. Elspeth lives in a house with over 100 rooms and still sends her friend fleeing domestic violence away, a friend who later DIES and her reaction is dismissive even to that. Felix is generally framed as charming, but when you actually look at his behavior a lot of the time he's entitled, dismissive, controlling, etc. I'd also argue that Felix is the Minotaur and Ollie is Theseus, but he isn't a hero.

[@Maxwellish]

i don’t think it’s fair to call this film gay bait, as Emerald (director) literally said that Oliver is “profoundly in love” with him, i think it makes more sense with the story that Felix isn’t into it, it progresses Oliver’s obsession.

[@jaimepe4765]

The director can say many things. Now, according to what you saw in the movie, do you really think he was in love with Felix? The movie is no love story. It's barely a character driven movie, of a not-so-well developed character. It's the movie about a monster (vampire-minotaur), who I doubt could love anyone at all. He murdered Felix and all his family. Do you call that love? But the way they publicited this movie was "A gay love story + The Talented Mr. Ripley". I was personally gay-baited by this movie. I don't pretend to be objective or speaking the truth, I'm just speaking from my own experience with the movie.@@Maxwellish

[@renrants]

@jaimepe4765 I knew very little about the movie going into it, so I didn't feel baited at all. I do think Ollie was in love with Felix, but it wasn't a healthy love, it was obsessive love that was more about the idea of Felix than Felix himself. I think he can be in love with Felix without it being a love story, because I wouldn't characterize it that way. It was a dark comedy, and the revelations that Ollie had tried to manufacture their connection is interesting imo.

[@Maxwellish]

@@jaimepe4765 i do think he was in love with him. i obviously don’t think it was a healthy love and i don’t think it WAS a love story, but i also don’t think it needed to be just to showcase Oliver’s feelings towards Felix, because it was his motivation, but it went beyond just love, it was fixation. and in my opinion, that’s kinda the point. i really liked the way Barry Keoghan put it in relation to the infamous bathtub scene lol, he said: “he’s submitting to this obsession and trying to figure out what it is he’s chasing, almost like a sacrifice. he’s confused, helpless, sick.” his drive ends up going beyond just Felix, but he was at the core of it. i think they marketed the film the way they did as to not give away too much of the plot, and from the trailers i think i can maybe understand how you would’ve been personally gay-baited there, (i mean i thought it was a romance film for the first half of it hah) but i still wouldn’t call it that, because i don’t think it was ever the intention. but to each their own, of course, apologies for the waffle. x

[@fintan..]

This film was an empty husk of anything to really say.

[@renrants]

I personally disagree for all the reasons I provided on the video, but that's okay 🤷‍♀️🤷

[@fintan..]

@@renrantsI’m very glad so many people get so much joy from this film, any film. That’s the magic of art. I broadly agree with much of the criticisms out there already directed towards this film commenting on the shallowness of the storytelling. As you outlined in your review, the film nods towards potential references and inspirations, but that is all it does. It never delves further into any sort of character or social study, or failing that, because of it's muddled arc, you come away from it lacking a sense that the filmmaker had a concrete point of view they were expressing. What really stopped me from buying into it - I didn’t believe these characters would ever be in a room together. I felt it was dreadfully miscast and from the start I was struggling to buy into it. Barry K in particular, I’ve not been won over by him yet in anything I’ve seen. His performance in TBOI felt like a school drama show performance. The way he is in interviews is how he seems to play anything I’ve seen him in. So for me, the film was a glossy surface that fell flat. For a great breakdown of how Saltburn is a pastiche of The Talented Mr Riply, Broey Deschanel's channel is worth a gander.