The Battle Between Feminism and Motherhood | Louise Perry

In this clip from their Conversation, Louise Perry and John Anderson talk about how feminism has undermined the value of motherhood. Louise argues that feminism's central tenet and society's veneration of absolute freedom is anti-children, putting it in direct tension with traditional parental roles.
See their full interview here: • Embracing Motherhood i...
Louise Perry is a journalist and author based in London, UK. She is a columnist for UnHerd, a featured writer for the Daily Mail, and hosts Maiden Mother Matriarch, a podcast about sexual politics.
Louise is the author of the landmark book, 'The Case Against the Sexual Revolution: A New Guide to Sex in the 21st Century,' published by Polity.
#louiseperry #johnanderson #interview #conversations #sexualrevolution #feminism #politics #family #traditional #trad #conservative #motherhood #savethechildren #liberal #prison
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Website: www.louisemperry.co.uk/
Podcast: / @maidenmothermatriarch

[@Tamar-sz8ox]

People are disconnected from themselves and others . That’s why people struggle to find relationships and have families . A woman or man Getting educated , getting skills so you can sustain yourself and those around you is an economic choice and necessity , it’s not about “ feminism “ or “ man power “

[@manusha1349]

100% correct! Mother & child are one entity, that's not a choice, its evolution. Mothers who weren't one with their infants worked themselves out of the gene pool. Feminists never had to deal with this issue because most were childless by virtue of their sexuality. Nothing wrong with that, but it doesn't work for mothers ❤

[@PB22559]

If mother and child are one entity, why have HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS of women murdered the baby that was growing inside of them? The fact that this has become normalised in the western world shows how truly evil many women are. This is just one of the reasons why men are walking away from marriage and women altogether.

[@parrotshootist3004]

because fathers are interchangable, pick and choose, never lose..

[@manusha1349]

@parrotshootist3004 👆🏽 this right here is why Society is in dire straits. People think fathers are "interchangeable" 🙄

[@kellharris2491]

A persons 'legacy' isn't every thing. Each person has their own life and their own choices. Their life has value even if they don't have kids. What a person leaves behind is more then just offspring.

[@parrotshootist3004]

@@kellharris2491 sure, just devalue and dismiss what drives a top ten killer of men in just about every country. Tell me you support the feminist war on boys with out telling me you do. It's not everything, to you. The just spend years pouring almost everything they have into it. Why would that be valued like it's everything.

[@philliphickox4023]

a question that exists, going on the trends, feminisms antipathy towards motherhood (breeders) has directly or indirectly lead to declining birth rate that is so significant there are countries if the trend continues that will eventually have no living citizens. Already in Europe there are villages that have no occupants or an ageing population and no young people. What good is 'hedonistic freedom' when there will not be anyone to inherit the earth.

[@den8863]

Childless women have poorer mental health outcomes

[@parrotshootist3004]

its a genocidal ideology, surprise!

[@johnisaacfelipe6357]

@@parrotshootist3004 A culture of death and parasitism.

[@Timbermannetje]

Well said! All the rights they have fought for will vanish! And other people with medieval values will take our place.

[@skylinefever]

What will happen is the the hedonistic freedom gene will be selected out, and only genuine family people will be left to take over.

[@marypearl6450]

If motherhood was a privilege rather than a right, I’d say both women and children would be better off.

[@ministeroffice9251]

Wa$ it not once upon a time in more primative feudal (tribal) law time$ before the possibility of the artificial nanny $TATE?

[@user-sg7ru7vg7l]

And who would grant which woman the “privilege” of motherhood? I’m against eugenics, that never turns out well. God commanded humans to be fruitful and multiply…he didn’t reserve it as a privilege for a select few.

[@ministeroffice9251]

@@user-sg7ru7vg7l wasn't it whomever in the hierarchy of their tribe or family group that was responsible for the provision of their welfare and protection such as a Lord for example?

[@Jcremo]

And who doles out these privileges? By what metric would they use? Skin colour? Bank account? Social credit score? Genetic heritage? No thank you. I’m grateful procreation is a right afforded to everybody equally.

[@ministeroffice9251]

Were people with things like down syndrome prevented or sterilised from having copious offspring, supposedly they especially enjoy the act but not sure they all comprehend the outcome?

[@Messier45_Pleiades]

I have always been a feminist and I am so proud of being a mother. It is all I ever wanted and I have raised two fabulous daughters. There is nothing more feminist than raising the next generation of intelligent, well educated, good citizens.

[@StimParavane]

Feminism is a self-serving anti-male victim ideology principally concerned with special privileges for women or equality only when it suits them.

[@toddjohnson271]

Your definition of it. The norm would be to not be a mother and fighting to abort children.

[@johnfoster8643]

You guys don’t get it. It’s about doing whatever YOU want to do, and there should be zero social pressure in either direction about what you should do with your life. In my opinion, the only obligations people have to society is to follow the laws, pay their taxes and not mooch off the government. Everything beyond that is your perogative

[@StimParavane]

@@johnfoster8643 The monstrous demon of selfishness...

[@angelaschone2847]

​@@StimParavanepff what society do for others that is not selfish?

[@SanityIsland]

As it is under the state, I'd say yes. By nature, no. Under the state, life itself is captive to such constraints that it dies inside. Therefore every relationship under it is strangled.

[@sandys2672]

The poor ultimately get taken advantage of in any system because there will always be exploiters.

[@rosezingleman5007]

Feminism is often maintained on the backs of poor women. If a feminist has a baby she goes back to pursue her cubicle career and gets a nanny. And that woman is often an immigrant with children of her own, whom she now neglects and hands over the care of to another female relative who can work without pay. So who is the feminism helping?

[@kwazooplayingguardsman5615]

atleast back then, our aristocracy was landed and grounded, they sought to better the nation or the kingdom because it bettered themselves, now they are willing to throw us under the bus since their loyalties are now divorced from land, nation, and blood.

[@TriStarIII]

What a trite and thoughtless comment

[@MrJuan_Vzla]

Yeah, agree.

[@toddjohnson271]

The middle gets hit the worst.

[@Franz19970]

I feel poor or low status men have been hurt more than poor women. Especially if he's not conventionally attractive. I mean I have known some dudes who were 100% totally invisible to women. I haven't seen many young women being that invisible and lonely. Even if they are obese, broke, or whatever they still get attention and validation from men

[@andreakumar2984]

Go to a second or third world country (ie the other half of the world) and you might feel slightly differently. Those parts of the world still operate in a way where a woman might not want to go out all by herself after the sun goes down, etc. A man always can.

[@AnaBanana-yk9px]

Motherhood is a choice now that women and men are better educated and we have better access to birth control. Children need present fathers bit nobody addresses the fatherlessness epidemic which is really the elephant in the room. If women are opting out of motherhood it's because motherhood doesn't exist in a social vacuum and theres are other variables that aren't being accounted for. Even wealthy women don't want to have babies which is actually quite surprising. I can understand it if women are poor and motherhood will push them further into poverty but motherhood which is more likely in today's economy even in wealthy countries.

[@trashpageant7861]

Shhhh. Don’t you know if a man abandons his family, it’s the woman’s fault for choosing the wrong guy? But they do have to choose A Guy. None of that single nonsense. And he should be unattractive (no chads). Oh, and poor (hypergamy bad!). And uneducated, because school is indoctrination. But if he turns out to be the wrong one, that’s on her. Good luck! 😂

[@jornantrillsark1437]

You can accommodate that by defining freedom in a way other than the narcissistic, immature, simplistic and shallow definition that liberalism seems to build upon. That job need to be done by intellectually capable people, that is psychologists and/or philosophers, NOT politicians, those lying intellectual dwarfs and charlatans.

[@kellharris2491]

To make childbirth the duty of women foe the sake of society is to reduce women to property of the state. And men are just stud bulls. No brains just brawn and balls. Perfect for war and labor. The government exists for the sake of the people not the people existing for the sake of the government.

[@christophermckinney3924]

So I htink THIS is the primary battlefield of feminism. Because women have to have their lives in order earlier IF they want to have kids, and because many have to leave the workforce for a period of time to properly raise kids, it seems to me that only those women who CHOOSE to not have kids can have some measure of equality. The years in which they are most likely to leave work to have kids are their most productive years at work where they are more likely to see raises and promotions. I am what can only be considered a second wave feminist myself. Definitely not third wave. I belive in equality. But I think it has to be absolute to be equality. So women have to take on male roles and men have to take on female roles. Women have to do more dangerous jobs outside in riskier professions and men have to do way more when raising kids. Women have to CHOOSE to enter STEM fields and become construction workers, and utility line workers, and oil rig workers, and soldiers, sailors, and air women, and be registered for the military draft. While more men have to CHOOSE become social workers, care workers, daycare workers, and stay home with the kids. Then and only then will you see something resembling equality. Anything less than that IS NOT equality, it's something else...

[@rickybobby8616]

How about we only care about equality when it comes to equal treatment by the government? Nobody cares that most basketball players are black. Why should we care who occupies which professions?

[@EmergingEvents]

John looking quite shocked there. Louise is offering a powerful wake up call. I see it and am appalled. Keep up the good work Louise Perry! This message needs to be spelled out repeatedly.

[@kentfrederick8929]

When our son was born, my wife was looking at being laid off from a corporate position in a few months. I had left a law firm. We both started job searching. The day before my wife was to be laid off, a co-worker in another business unit offered her a lateral job change. So, I remained at home. So, had fatherhood been prison?

[@Verkoper-gx2xz]

I see feminism not as hyperliberalism, but as hyperindividualism. This is about the individual imposing her world views (and delusions) on the rest of the world and thinking that the universe revolves around her. It, therefore, is no surprise that there is overlap between feminism and narcissism (see also Dr. Iain McGilchrist and How Our Brains Turned Fools Woke).

[@ianbuttery8693]

It's somewhat amazing that Louise see's the family unit as mother and child rather than mother, father and child! All for one and one for all. And in my opinion, this is the systemic failure of the feminist movement. If we can re-adjust the balance point. something like, 8 working days per fortnight, 4 for him, 4 for her, both are getting a better work/life balance and the child the benefit of male and female role model.

[@den8863]

Statistically fatherless families have more problems.

[@lisaarata174]

Can it be, that she was talking about the mother-child unit just for the sake of the present discussion?

[@parrotshootist3004]

@@lisaarata174why would a confessed feminist include patriarchs, with matriarchs?

[@johnisaacfelipe6357]

@@lisaarata174 Could be, I hope it is because of that and not because of her older training as a feminist.

[@aafgahfah]

i’ve never met a man in my life who wants to live and work in the way you suggest.

[@playapapapa23]

I find it frustrating that she sees woman and child as a dyad. As a husband and father, I find it offensive. I can’t see where myself ends between my wife and child. We are all a family, we are all a unit, we are one. Feminism seems to be characterized by a deep narcissism that places women as primary always. IDK, maybe I’m being too sensitive. Either way, her stances are still far more refreshing than the average feminist perspective.

[@karenkinsey2380]

It’s good that you wrote this. I think if people realize that the attachment that a parent will feel towards their infant isn’t just a woman thing people will be less adverse to the idea of motherhood. My only issue with this statement is that women are still often more attached to their children then men are. This is mostly due to the fact that without a bond (ideally, marriage) a man can just ditch the child before it is born-leaving it up to the mother to deal with the child alone.

[@kellharris2491]

Honey that's what I have been told my whole life as a woman by Church run by men that my God given role is to be a Mother. That the duty is mostly mine to bare. And yes it is a duty. My husband job is just to be the provider. He is in charge but all the child rearing and household stuff is on me. What you need to understand is the patriarchy is a system where both men and women are confined to a certain role. Both benefit and both suffer because of it. Feminism is complicated because its extremely fractured. Some are conservative feminists like this woman and she sees the traditional role as the role for women. So you can say that her brand of feminism is actually allied with traditional patriarchal values. Then you have feminism in the middle who are moderate. And then you have feminists who want nothing to do with marriage or children at all. Maybe not even men. This is the complete abandonment of traditional roles or the patriarchal system. But really the situation going on more to do with economics and poor conditions to have a family. Its to difficult to bring children in the world right now for many women. That's what people aren't getting. But society is just treating people an especially women as economic pieces. They want to squeeze as much labor out of us as they can. Do you think in this situation that kids are even possible. I mean look at China and it's 996 work schedule. That's 72 hours a week. What can people do but fix the situation. Maybe when a lot of the elderly die off and the economy resets things will get better. But things are good now.

[@playapapapa23]

@@karenkinsey2380 maybe I’m just weird. My parents are inseparable in my mind. My attachment to them is equal. And as a parent now, it’s the same. My wife and I’s duties are split down the middle. This is how I was raised so it’s my default perspective. My wife wouldn’t have children with me otherwise. Like I said in my post, I might have been being overly sensitive. It just seems strange to me to not include that father when considering one’s relationship to their child. I just would never think of my relationship with my kid independent of his mother.

[@playapapapa23]

@@kellharris2491 now this is more inline with what I’d expect to hear from a typical feminist.

[@karenkinsey2380]

@@playapapapa23 Well if that is all true then you are an exception. My post was only meant to apply to men who aren't bonded to the women they impregnated and could just ditch them. The fact that they could do this so easily is both a product of biology and culture.

[@darrenfernando3519]

Why Prison is Better than Work In prison you spend the day in an 8-by-10-foot cell. At work you spend the day in a 6-by-10 cubicle. In prison you get three meals a day. At work you only get a break for one meal which you have to pay for. In prison you get time off for good behaviour. At work you get rewarded for good behaviour with more work. In prison a guard locks and unlocks all the doors for you. At work you have to carry a security card and unlock and open all the doors yourself. In prison you can watch a TV and play games. At work you get sacked for watching TV and playing games. In prison you get your own toilet. At work you share a toilet with fifty other people. In prison your family and friends can visit. At work you can't even speak to your family and friends. In prison all expenses are paid by taxpayers, usually with no work required. At work you pay all the expenses to go to work and taxes are taken from your salary to pay for prisoners. In prison you spend most of your life looking through bars from the inside wanting to get out. At work you spend most of your time wanting to get out and go inside bars. In prison there are wardens who are often sadistic. At work they are called managers.

[@thatf_inguy8220]

I disagree with the idea that freedom and sanctity/tradition are diametrically opposed. Freedom does not mean doing anything you want, all of the time. It means having the choice to live your life the way you want. If you choose to have a kid, you choose anything and everything that comes with it. If you choose to transition to another gender, you choose anything and everything that comes with it. Additionally, social pressure does not impede freedom. I should be free to live how I want, and others should be free to live how they want, and if they want to tell me how mad they are about how I live, they are welcome too. This is what separates classical liberals or libertarians from modern liberals. Modern liberals are very quick to advocate for government intervention (i.e. the threat of force) to enact behavioral changes among individuals. THIS viewpoint is what separates "hyper-liberals" from those who actually support freedom.

[@bonnielovely]

there isn't a battle between feminists and motherhood. feminists see motherhood as a choice. motherhood is a choice. some people feel pressured by this choice, but it's still your own choice. it's literally that simple. if you think feminism is "woman-ism" then you're someone that puts the emotional connotation of a word before the literal definition and context. and if you're upset by women being at the center of their own lives, then please, get over yourself

[@sunnyjaiswal1285]

I think it's feminism that is more inclined towards putting emotional connotation on words and policing language

[@bonnielovely]

@@sunnyjaiswal1285 nah, it's more that it's an objective definition that continually gets taken out of context by people who have an emotional connotation to the stem "fem." the politicization of language is essential to avoid miscommunication, especially because so many english speakers are not native speakers. without context, language is meaningless -from a writer who has an english degree

[@Nonplused]

I don't totally agree. Having a baby is not "freedom limiting", unless it is a very short term and narcissistic sort of freedom that is your goal. Women are "free" to chose motherhood or not, but like so many choices and goals, if having children is your goal than it takes a certain great amount of dedication and commitment to achieve that goal. Whereas women who do not wish to undertake that dedication and commitment are also free not to have children. But neither woman is suffering from a lack of freedom compared to the other, they just have different goals. We are all free to choose to become great piano players, for example. But those of us who choose not to put in the practice it requires to master the piano are not any more "free" having chosen not to play the piano than those who "freely" chose to put in the time and the effort to learn to play the piano. We just have one less skill. It is the great conundrum of life: Choosing not to do something does not mean that you have automatically done something else. Say "no" to enough things, freely as you will, and you end up with nothing. And every choice that you make entails a certain sacrifice. Not all choices are compatible with all other possible choices.

[@playacc1534]

yeah its also like caring for Pets. noone would say a Person is not free because he bought Pets.

[@r.walker7986]

When you have a child your life is no longer your own and your life then has to revolve around another person until they can care for themselves which will take over a decade or two. So yes, its kind of a prison. When you can't go out becasue you don't have child care, go on trips, have a peaceful dinner at a nice restaurant, have white furniture or carpets, have to be home by a certain time around nap schedules and bedtimes, and most of this falls squarely on women. Men are not expected to be there...

[@Timbermannetje]

Still.. if you start young with kids and grow out of it in your 40s, there will be plenty of time to let it all hang out! It is always better to party when your job is done ✔️

[@r.walker7986]

@@Timbermannetje Unless you are really rich, there is not much partying happening io=n your 40s, that's when people get tired.... just tired for no reason. And kids dont just go away, they get bigger and more expensive, and they don't always go away, have you seen how much rent is?

[@Timbermannetje]

@@r.walker7986 No kids is not an option! Society needs to find the best way on how to maintain the population. Because developed countries are just dying out!

[@Timbermannetje]

And if society can't provide for that, you'll need to look for it in other communities, like the church.

[@r.walker7986]

@@Timbermannetje The fear mongering over population is just that. The people who want to have children are having them and the people who don't or cannot afford to care for them are not, as it should be. If our society really cared they would do something about the costs of living, they would pay teachers more, provide free childcare and healthcare as well. This idea is being pushed mainly by conservative whites who are afraid of becoming minorities and men who use children to stop women from being successful and tether themselves to women...

[@TheGumbyRules]

What's the end game of discouraging women from becoming mothers other than extinction of the human race?

[@tammy1001]

Freedom for women is about choice its not about abrogating all responsibility to others.

[@StimParavane]

Feminism = freedom without responsibility.

[@ratnakordosshu6291]

8 Billion Human!! How many babies we need?

[@parrotshootist3004]

none in the west, only the others. Who is this loxic 'we'?

[@ratnakordosshu6291]

@@parrotshootist3004 toxic we? The human 8 billion!!! Men also participate in Baby making, no? 🤣 Western world is rich and advanced country. I live in Bangladesh. Even my poor country, the rich people are not interested to make babies!!! People are more interested to make babies when they are uneducated, religious and women have no opinion. When women have done civil right they make less Babies. Look at Turkey. Muslim country. But women make less than 2 baby. So…… West facing now the extinction of white Race. Because white peoples are most advanced in science, education, money and not believing god. So it’s not only on women

[@skylinefever]

@@parrotshootist3004 The east clearly doesn't need them, South Korea, Japan, Singapore, Hong Kong, and Taiwan have entered the chat.

[@ekatasatya2995]

this whole world is prison.

[@toddjohnson271]

Yup....they have technologically gotten there. The elites were always working towards it.

[@williamvorkosigan5151]

Not interested in swapping Feminism for Prudery.

[@williebobs3830]

If it's not natural don't do it.

[@Timbermannetje]

If all women would have at least 2 kids early in life, 75% of all problems would be solved in developed countries. And Japan would still exist.

[@megankissinger8269]

But that would require forcing women to have children, which is a human rights violation. The reason Japan has such low birth rates is largely in part due to their workaholic culture. They need to change that if they want more babies to be born.

[@Timbermannetje]

@@megankissinger8269 A government can do whatever it takes! Ban the pill, indoctrinate/inspire people through media, role models, better work conditions, funds, etc.

[@angelaschone2847]

​@@Timbermannetjeawful, you just want to be authoritarian against women, and women are only going to let it rot

[@j_sum1]

She is perceptive. I think she is probably right.

[@Hadrianus01]

Her communication skills need work. Just spit it out FFS!

[@yellowmellow7748]

Your listening skills need improvement then coz great works and points take time..all the in-betweens are building towards the final point

[@Hadrianus01]

@@yellowmellow7748 What a dumb comment

[@adamludwick9931]

"um so I insist on defining myself as feminist" Feminism is, and has been since the start, a movement based on the hatred of men. That you open with that particular sentence tells me everything I need to know.

[@joejoejoejoejoejoe4391]

00:25 "women are disadvantaged" in what way?

[@Jamie-tb6oz]

That statement is so wrong. Feminism wasn't about hating men. It was about women having equal opportunity, to make their own decisions, have a say in the community they lived in, gain an education, open a bank account, own property, leave a dangerous living environment, earn their own income, have a say in their children's lives. Anyone who wants to take this away from women are fighting a losing battle. It was fought for and won - there is no way anyone can take it away now.

[@Jamie-tb6oz]

@@joejoejoejoejoejoe4391 simple - pregnancy. Ask any father who wants to protect his teenage daughter how she is disadvantaged in a relationship.

[@joejoejoejoejoejoe4391]

@@Jamie-tb6oz So the CHOICE and ABILITY to have a child (or not) is a disadvantage? I don't think you quite understand what a disadvantage is...

[@deepakkumar-pb8dn]

@@Jamie-tb6oz they just banned abortion rights in USA So much for” no way anyone can take it away now”

[@kaybrown7733]

Lady, no one is obligated to live by your beliefs! The audacity of you people. So entitled!