The Battle of the Scheldt 1944

[@ce17ec]

Very good presentation. This battle should get much more attention of the historians and WW2 enthusiasts.

[@WW2TV]

We're trying

[@OTDMilitaryHistory]

Been trying to bring more attention to the Scheldt for years!

[@mikemerritt1443]

Excellent presentation Tobias. Such in depth research. As a Canadian I am so proud to see the Canadian contribution presented for the liberation of Holland in this forgotten campaign which helped shorten the war.

[@scottmac2436]

A Canadian soldier who fought there told me that there was no place to hide in the mud for miles around. Every time you dug a foxhole it was full of water and all the ground around was flat So you had to lay in the mud. The German 88s picked off the tanks that tried to.follow the roads that sat a little bit higher but were exposed - visible to shelling from miles around you - the few roads were well covered by the Germans defenders At night the crossings across little canals were well covered by German machine guns too. He had no idea how he survived while so short of food rations , but the soldiers still shared the little they had with the starving Dutch kids who were so thankful to see them come. As for me, I will never forget that farm boy Canadian soldier from Ontario who honestly told me his memories about the Netherlands and the Scheldt.in 1944. It was simply the truth from a man who had been there and wanted a young man like me to understand twenty-five years later what it was like to have survived it. Donald MacDuff never forgot the kindliness of the Dutch to young Canadian solders like him - a man of low rank doing his duty! I shall never forget his simple honesty. ...

[@colinellis5243]

Agreed! what a great and Ernest presentation! How does Woody keep finding these brilliant historians! I have researched this pivotal battle from a Canadian perspective but this Dutch one is amazing!

[@kewlwarez]

I grew up and am once again living on Walcheren; my parents' house still has the floodlines visible from the inudation of 1944.

[@WW2TV]

Wow, amazing it can still be seen

[@johnhanson5943]

‘With the Jocks’ is a good book on this campaign and others.

[@WW2TV]

Yes it is

[@arjanberendsen2988]

This was absolutely superb. I'm a lifeguard and working on the beaches of Vlissingen, Dishoek and Zoutelande for years. History is everywhere and all the remains of the bunkers and structures are still here. For someone who's interested in wwII like me this is the most interesting area to grew up and still work. Thank you for bringing this part of history in the spotlights ✌🏽

[@WW2TV]

You are very welcome Arjan

[@MrTruthwillout]

Thanks for making this video guys. My Grandfather was with the 52nd Lowland at Flushing. I value your efforts in making sense of his service and am proud of his contribution to freeing Zeeland and Europe in general. Keep up the great work.

[@georgecooksey8216]

Thank you Tobias and Paul for an excellent presentation and discussion.

[@colinellis5243]

Woody I know I am repeating myself but the only succinct comment regarding this brilliant presentation is EXCELLENT SIMPLY EXCELLENT!!!!

[@Bullet-Tooth-Tony-]

The thing that often gets forgotten about the Scheldt is that the area was already highly fortified even before D-Day, it was a strong point of the so-called Atlantic Wall. The area was never going to be taken in a rush and the port opened in a few days. Monty can be criticised for not placing more resources in its capture, but the port was never going to be opened quickly enough to solve the immediate fuel crisis.

[@WW2TV]

But you agree it should have been more of a priority and earlier than it was?

[@Bullet-Tooth-Tony-]

Yes

[@OldWolflad]

@@Bullet-Tooth-Tony- Was ultimately Eisenhower's decision though. He was clearly enticed by the opportunity to strike into the Ruhr. Eisenhower transferred the responsibility of clearing the Scheldt, albeit a difficult task, to the Canadians. Tobias blames Montgomery here. I'm not sure it is fair to blame him just because he had his eyes on MG.

[@johnlucas8479]

@@OldWolflad As the Canadians 1st Army was part of Montgomery 21st Army Group, Montgomery would be the one to determine which task were assign to the Canadians not Eisenhower. Eisenhower approve the delay in opening up Antwerp. The issue is Montgomery not making Antwerp number 1 priority. See is Directive M525 dated 14th of September (Source his Memoirs) FIRST CANADIAN ARMY 8. Complete the capture first of Boulogne, and then of Calais. 9. Dunkirk will be left to be dealt with later; for the present it will be merely masked. 10. The whole energies of the Army will be directed towards operations designed to enable full use to be made of the port of Antwerp. Airborne troops are available to co-operate. Air operations against the island of Walcheren have already commenced and these include: (a) the isolation of the island by taking out road and rail bridges. (b) attacks on coast defence guns. (c) attacks on other artillery, including flak. The interesting point is Airborne troops are available when you consider 1st British 82nd and 101st Airbornes Division were allocated to Market Garden starting the 17th. That leaves only the 6th British which just recently return to UK from France and 17th US Division the newly arrived from the States. Your comment about Montgomery having is eyes on MG is interesting when you consider Market Garden videos the standard comment is that Montgomery had very little to do with planning for Market Garden.

[@OldWolflad]

@@johnlucas8479 Hi John Interesting stuff! Operation Market Garden was undoubtedly Montgomery's concept. Montgomery clarified that Eisenhower knew full well that any British efforts on the Scheldt were being temporarily postponed to proceed with it, and this is backed up by Eisenhower’s statement after the war, where he admitted: - "The attractive possibility of quickly turning the German north flank, that is, of getting across the Rhine, led me to approve the temporary delay in freeing the vital port of Antwerp." Evidently, Montgomery was only following Eisenhower’s orders, with the overall decision to postpone the Scheldt Estuary campaign and proceed with Operation Market Garden unequivocally made by the Supreme Commander. Eisenhower further confirmed this in his autobiography ‘Crusade in Europe’, where he wrote: - “At the conference in Brussels on 10th September 1944, Field-Marshal Montgomery was authorised to defer the clearing of the Antwerp approaches in an effort to seize the bridgehead I wanted”. Operational Directive 525, issued by Eisenhower on 14th September 1944 totally absolved British 2nd Army of any responsibility to mount a Scheldt estuary offensive from the 17th, transferring this entirely to the Canadian Army. I wonder if the Canadian Parachute Brigade were being considered (if they were in existence at that point) to support? In terms of the executed plan for Market Garden, I think what people have argued (including me) is that his and Browning's Operation 16 morphed into a dramatically different American Market Garden, in the sense that Sixteen proposed coup de main glider landings either end of each bridge in darkness, followed by two large airlifts, one at dawn and one in the evening, so that the great bulk of troops would be on the ground on Day One. Also bear in mind they also recommended landings of some units nearer Eindhoven and near Elst. So the single lift broad daylight Operation Market Garden insertion that Brereton authorised barely resembled Montgomery's plan.

[@whitby910]

Superb, thank you.

[@cameronsimpson-ld8nk]

A really engaging presentation - great photos and maps.

[@HG_NL]

Great show and as a Dutchman, I know very little of this battle, so it is going to be an interesting week for me 😃

[@davidlavigne207]

Regardless of the many controversial opinions about how this battle was handled, I was impressed to get the perspective of the Dutch from an actual Dutch historian, especially about the bombing of the Dikes resulting in the disastrous flooding. It reminded me of the same type of bombing done at Stalingrad prior to the German 6th Army's assault. It did nothing but create more obstacles to a proper advance and resulted in more civilian casualties than military ones. This is a great start to the series.

[@peterhanlon8324]

My mates Dad was in the commandos. He landed on Walcheren island-seeing his neighbouring buffalo boat get hit by a shell. He landed safely and helped to liberate the island All the people I knew who had gone through the war are no longer here now. Just took them and their experiences for granted when we were young. Now realise what stalwarts they were.

[@cheesenoodles8316]

That would be a great place to visit. This battle just not covered gor a long time. I rember seeing pictures of th Buffalos and delving into the details ...I was pretty young. Excellent show.

[@LeftCoastStephen]

Another brilliant show! Thanks for covering so many of the less “glamorous” battles of the war. One aspect of the delay that doesn’t get much mention is the weather. If the battle had started in September instead of late October, ie before the fall rains, would it have been easier?

[@raymondbristow4007]

If you search KZbin for the Canadian Blackwatch, interviews with veterans. Much of it is clearing the Scheldt. It is a much watch, veterans who were there, bled and died, bled and surrvived, very moving. They had that bond of brothers that you can't really understand unless you have been in combat, I thought that I understood, but not really, not until you've been underfire. It would compliment this superb presentation. Trooper Bear

[@MagiciansApprentice1]

a fascinating overview .. i loved the shipping figures for the beginning of 1945

[@iancarr8682]

Fantastic to have a Dutch perspective on the Scheldt Estuary. Please can Tobias come back with another presentation?

[@maartenvandam344]

I live on Walcheren, where the Royal Marines first landed. The remains of the old sea dyke, which was bombed in October and again in November 1944, are still here. There's a Sherman tank on the new dyke serving as a monument. The village was destroyed during the inundation of Walcheren and the bombardments that made it happen. There's a restaurant on the beach called the "Bombaai", which means the bomb bay. There are traces of the battle everywhere you look over here. If you know where to look.

[@TheGixernutter]

Superb

[@raymondbristow4007]

The Battle of the Sheldt does not attract the attention that it deserves, that's why it is pleasing to see it here. Personally I think more Royal Marines / Commandos should have been deployed to support the Canadians. Had they delayed Market Garden and did both operations together it would have split the German's defence. Possibly would have reduced the Canadian Casualty list and reduced the pressure on getting 30 XXX through to Arnhem, another what if.... a top rate presentation, thank you. Trooper Bear

[@TomMullen-hn7wc]

Outstanding presentation. I wish his book was available in English.

[@johnlucas8479]

Excellent presentation Woody

[@gerhardris]

Great video thanks. Indeed, Monty should have done his homework in 1943 even before D Day. Admitting after the war not to have known that he needed to take both sides of the Schelde to open up Antwerp. When thanks to the Belgian resistence Antwerp was quickly taken Monty should have made shore by mapstudy in 1943 what the key features were to open up this greatest of prizes on logics Antwerp. The Belgian resistence knew namely holding the bridges over the Albert canal in Antwerp. Monty should have heeded the advice of Admiral Ramsey and have naval and air forces pre planed support availeble to prevent any crossing of any forces from South toward Walcheren. Monty should have immediately try a coup de main toward Bergen op Zoom and Hogerheide to prevent any German couter attack. The same goes for immediate coup de main to grasp the Sloedam entrance of Walcheren by paradrop and light forces support. Attacking all the bunkers from the rear. After having sealed off the harbour of Antwerp from further infiltration the full taking of the harbour should have been the plan. And of course preventing further mining. Only if logistics premitting was Market Garden a good plan. In truth everybody still believes the lies that Monty no doubt told Ike. Market Garden was planed to cut off the 15th German army of around 80000 men North of Arnhem at the Zuiderzee. This with the added benifit of preventing V2 strikes against London from Holland (West part Netherlands) the only place still in range of London. Ike, John Frost et all all talk about Zuider sea even after the war. They had clearly used old maps. In the 1930ies the Afsluit dike turned the sea into the IJssel lake. The 15th army could still have gotten away and you don't want them fighting for the defence of Walcheren either. Market Garden could have worked had Ike placed it in the US sector and put Patton in temporary command of the entire Market Garden show with the goal not to directly attack the Ruhr but make a staging area on the North German plain being excellent tank country. Thus strike towards Wilhelmshafen cutting off Holland. In so doing over stretching the Germans. Market Garden was indeed 90% succesfull. Crossed the main river in the Rhine delta the Waal at Nijmegen. And outflanking the Sigfried line. So, in a counter factual what if history that is a fair starting point assuming Patton would have taken command of the operation instead of playing it such that Monty could blame others for failure and claim as he did 90% success achieved not by bad generals but extremely galant soldiers. Then having opend up Antwerp sooner the strike towards the IJssel lake and the North German plain would have been exceedingly less difficult than what the idiots did in attacking Hurtgen forrest at the strongest point of the Siegfried line in a frontal assault on a Stalingrad built up area of the Ruhr and again having to cross the Rhine which had already been done. Surrounding the Rhur and also attacking Bremen Hamburg was possible from the North German plain which was extremly difficult for the Germans to attack or defend given the overhelming mass of force the allies could muster when not getting bogged down in forrests, river crossings and built up areas. This could indeed have shortend the war by months. 1:07:16 Had the Yanks been in command then no doubt

[@Bullet-Tooth-Tony-]

@gerhardris Or Richard O'Connor could have done it since this was 21st Army Group's sector.

[@gerhardris]

@@Bullet-Tooth-Tony- yes O Conner was the sort of general you need. But, the 21st armygroup doing both Schelde sides and protecting that operation from a no doubt fierce attack (by no doubt one then two SS pantzer divisions) was too much one one plate. Further more it would keep the Yanks and Patton in the game with less supplies to play with. Putting Market Garden and Patton directly under Ike. And make Bradley chief of the rest yet in defence putting less straighn on the supply. And, I guess Patton would have prevented any landings not near the bridges and have close air support and used Ditch knowledge assets better. For instance dropping both US divisions inbetween Arnhem amd Nijmegan. The thrust of any German division in North Brabant would be in great danger of being cut off. The 21 st army group to the west and south and US forces to their West. Broadening any corroidor towards Arnhem. Yet, like I said as a what if it's better to assume Patton did no better than Monty.

[@bl123-w8l]

Superb. The Dutch were very brave people.

[@prjw73]

There is a great recent book on the escape of the German 15th army: The Army That Got Away by Jack Didden and Maarten Swarts. The authors are Dutch and it shows in their writing style but their other two books that I own are highly entertaining and informative.

[@janusx66]

Tobias! Seen him al lot here, he lives a town further, he and H. Sakkers also made a book about the Battle of the Scheldt, shame there is no propper docu about it, it is all Normandy, Battle of the Bulge and Market Garden.

[@keessturm2804]

Im living in Walcheren, and when people here buy an old house, they call it a "zout huis" (salt house) because the stones under the floodline still contain a lot of salt. Because of this often paint wont stick.

[@erikdeen4767]

The fact that the harbour installations in Antwerp were left relatively intact was largely due to the efforts and sacrifices of the Antwerp resistance movement. They secured and defended the installations against the Germans until the Canadians came, with great loss of lives though.

[@britishmuzzleloaders]

"I'll ask you this GD. What other channel, YT or mainstream is devoting any coverage of the Scheldt, let alone 6 shows"....... Indeed. Incidentally it was the first large(ish)-scale use of the No 5 Rifle which was trialled by troops of the 52nd Lowland Div (by best estimates).

[@waynearmstrong9060]

Really enjoyed the show boys, great to get the Dutch prospective. Also reinforces my opinion about Bomber Command leadership just a bunch of thugs and a law unto themselves.

[@Bullet-Tooth-Tony-]

@waynearmstrong9060 Yeah they made a right mess of the city of Caen as well

[@lollypop333100]

When i was on vacation in Zeeland and Walcheren with my father's sailboat there were still many guns of the Napoleonic era...fascinates me more , but the Dutch Zeelanders were not sympathetic to the many German tourists...back in the early 70ties, the occupation was still too fresh in theit memory...

[@WW2TV]

Yes, but a lot has changed since the 70s. The same has happened in Normandy where over time German visitors have become more and more welcome

[@IanRuxton]

I really enjoyed this. Hoping that Operation Veritable will receive similar treatment. “A Bridge Too Far” has meant Market Garden dwarfs the other battles around it in the popular consciousness.

[@IanRuxton]

My uncle died in Operation Veritable (hence my interest) and in fact it was during an attack on a bunker disguised as a farmhouse, I presume just like the one shown in this video.

[@matthewnewton8812]

Weren’t 617 Squadron, the Dam Busters mission, wasn’t that also an example of “offensive inundation”, as he calls strategic flooding? That mission wasn’t defensive in nature at all. So I think he may be wrong that this is the only real world example of using deliberate flooding as an offensive weapon. But it’s a minor point in an otherwise excellent presentation.

[@seamuskavanagh2566]

I'm no expert on WW2 history or military history more generally, but I consider myself more well-informed than most. However, in my opinion - based on the sources I've read, watched, or heard from - Montgomery's handling of the Antwerp/Scheldt situation is what truly kills any argument that he was a military genius. I'm not saying he wasn't very good at his job, but failing to cut off the 15th Army whilst being so close seems like one of the biggest misses of the entire war, especially when you factor in the logistical problems they caused at the Scheldt Estuary and the Market-Garden disaster that was the Allies way of cutting off and clearing the Netherlands of the 15th Army, what Monty should have done from the start. Just to be clear, I don't hold Montgomery wholly responsible for Market-Garden. Eisenhower, Brereton, Browning, Gavin and others also take blame, but how Montgomery can justify not cutting off the 15th Army with tanks and artillery, but can justify an airborne operation such as Comet, (which evolved to become Market-Garden under Brereton's supervision, Browning's planning, on Eisenhower's orders), striking deep into German occupied Netherlands with what are effectively light infantry, I cannot understand. I appreciate that Monty was under a lot of pressure to win the war quickly before his forces were worn down further, to stop the V2 missile attacks on Britain launched from the Netherlands, and to supply his rapidly advancing army group. However, to me, at least, a military genius is able to sift through the information, good or bad, withstand the political pressure and make the correct decision. The whole situation just feels so avoidable and unnecessary, it's devastating. And finally, to avoid confusion, I'm not saying anyone here called Monty "a genius". I am refering to the internet arguments between Britons and Americans about him. The ones where the Americans call Monty "useless" or "a liability" and the Britons call him "a genius" or "brilliant". I believe none of the statements above to be true, but I do believe Montgomery to have been a very good general overall, despite the Scheldt.

[@WW2TV]

Well this is the thing, I am a Monty fan, in the sense that I think he did a pretty good job overall. But I would never label him brilliant or a genius

[@seamuskavanagh2566]

@@WW2TV I agree with you and I too would consider myself a Monty fan based on his performance in the North African campaign and his role in planning D-Day alone, not to mention his vital role in Dunkirk, Sicily and the Italian peninsular, but a lot of people (especially older people) seem to judge military performance based on their passport rather than results which clouds our knowledge of history, at least in the mainstream. The same argument can be said for Americans with Patton, whom I also respect but would never call "brilliant" or "a genius." Out of interest, since you're much more informed than I am, are there any generals or other high-ranking officers from WW2 you would call "Brilliant" or "Genius"? Bill Slim? Erich von Manstein? Konstantin Rokossovsky?

[@WW2TV]

Slim definitely, maybe Rokossovsky. Eichelberger, Simpson and Truscott would be up there too

[@Bullet-Tooth-Tony-]

@@WW2TV I'd also add General Richard O'Connor Woody, who did a brilliant job at the start of the North African campaign, one of the great what if's of History is how the war in the Desert and Europe might have looked if he hadn't had his armies taken away by Churchill for the Greece campaign and if he wasn't captured on a recon patrol by Rommel.

[@Bullet-Tooth-Tony-]

@@seamuskavanagh2566 Nikolai Vatutin, Richard O'Connor, Lucian Truscott.

[@MegaBloggs1]

why was the air support so in-effective? Quite apart of the lack of spotter aircraft for the monitors-unbelievable-this is late 44-there should have been heaps of typhoon support

[@WW2TV]

Shit weather was a big factor

[@PerfidiousAdrian]

Very informative discussion on a lesser known topic. My grandfather fought with the 1st Canadian Infantry Div. in Holland (not at the Scheldt though). I found Mr. van Gelt's attitude towards those who fought and died to liberate Holland a bit distasteful, especially with 80 years of hindsight. Poor decisions were made in WW2. Perhaps he could have mentioned all the deliberate flooding the Germans were engaged in?

[@WW2TV]

What specifically did you find distasteful? There was criticism of Allied tactics and commanders, but that's normal

[@PerfidiousAdrian]

@@WW2TV sure it’s normal and I accept his criticisms. But he is clearly hostile towards allied action and refuses to mention German atrocities at all. ???? He goes on and on about allied bombing flooding Walcheren when the German were flooding the entire country deliberately. He shows a map of flooding and destruction of Holland 1945 implying the allies were responsible never mind 5 years of Nazi systematic pillage and destruction.

[@WW2TV]

Well, I think I agree with him personally. Bomber Command had a habit of targetting civilians unnecessarily IMHO

[@PerfidiousAdrian]

@@WW2TV I certainly can’t disagree with that. I can disagree with the tone he chose. It might just be me who misinterpreted

[@WW2TV]

I think you misinterpreted a Dutchman's passion and emotional connection to the story for something more negative

[@scorcher67]

Great show . I think The Scheldt and The Reichswald were far too WW1 like for people to think about so they pretended they were not actually happening and that included those who should have known better.

[@DeniatitadenCompostela]

Vlissingen is Flushing in English.