The Battle of Thermopylae - East vs. West - Part 2 - Extra History

📜 The Battle of Thermopylae, Part 2: Why does everyone know the Greek defeat at Thermopylae, but victories like Salamis and Plataea remain obscure? Because it helped define Greek, and thus “western” culture. And that’s thanks to one man: Herodotus.
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Part 1 - • The Battle of Thermopy...
Part 2 - • The Battle of Thermopy...
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Artist: Lilienne Chan I Writer: Robert Rath I Voice: Daniel Floyd I Editor: Joe Russell I ♪ Music by Demetori: bit.ly/1EQA5N7 I ♪ "The Collapse" by Sean & Dean Kiner
#ExtraHistory #WorldHistory #History

[@extrahistory]

The oracle said that a Spartan king must fall in battle or Sparta would burn. So when Persia said “hand over your weapons” Leonidas said “come and take them.” Brought to you by Total War Arena! Use code HOPLITE for extra goodies: redir.wargaming.net/wbm6j5va/?pub_id=video2

[@i_eat_grass_hd1244]

Extra Credits I love ur vids

[@edvin8379]

well sparta was a sort of democracy

[@vangelisjr4716]

Extra Credits Salamis is one of the most important things in our(greek) history books even from elementary school and now we now Salamis and Thermopylae is one of the most known things in Greece!! Also I would recommend a video series (small) based on the Oligarchs and the Dimocratics in Kerkira or the story of the 30 tyrants of Athens when the Spartans won!!

[@diegoviniciomejiaquesada4754]

Extra Credits 2 entire videos waiting for a "300" movie reference... Not a single one. I'm disappointed.

[@TehAxelius]

Spartans have the best comebacks. "If I bring my army into your land, I will destroy your farms, slay your people, and raze your city." "If."

[@joselix999]

"our arrows will blot out the sun" "Then whe shall fight in the shade" Cool line. Still gonna die.

[@apostolispouliakis7401]

The Spartans were well known for those one liners in one occasion Philip II of Macedon was conquering Greek city-states and Sparta was relatively weak and without walls seeing that Philip sent a message to the Spartans saying “If I invade Lakonia you will be destroyed, never to rise again.” The Spartans replied with one word, “If.”

[@maxk4324]

​@@apostolispouliakis7401 Spartans learned to be tactful, strategic, efficient, and ruthless with _all_ weapons in their arsenal.

[@benthiccbiomancer2760]

I feel that was the case with all the badass lines that the Spartans had at Thermopylae. They were awesome, and didn't make much of a difference to the Persians. "Come and take them!" "Sure thing bro, if you insist"

[@williambraswell2485]

Real line

[@xnadegod1053]

@@benthiccbiomancer2760 well. The ration was like 20 persians=1 spartan

[@davidcolby167]

I love that Herodotus is known both as the father of lies and the father of history.

[@Crafty_Spirit]

4:57 I wonder if Herodotus actually considered Macedonia as Greek 😅

[@mk9650]

@@Crafty_Spirit he surely did. He wasn't a smug Athenian

[@Waleedxbmi]

I met him in ac : odyssey he was a great man

[@killa103728838829838]

Hey he made up some of the best damn history I’ve ever heard you watch your mouth speaking truthfully about him.

[@callanhutchison1871]

I deny you

[@Qardo]

The reason why the Persian Elite force were dubbed as "Immortals". It was because the men wore masks over their faces. Never making a sound. Also, if any had fallen. They were replaced by another man. Seemingly endless in number. Never know if it was the same man that was killed or someone new to replace them. This is not some comic book story telling. There are written records that tell this. The Immortals were a scary force. Just because they were haunting warriors to fight.

[@alystrius3508]

Yep. Essentially employing an early from of psychological warfare.

[@Qardo]

Shapur Hakhamaniash Well, it is all about how you conduct your battles. Persians generally fought on wide open ground. So they had to move quickly across a battle field and normally the enemies they faced before weren't so well armed or armored. Plus stretching over pretty much two landmasses. You had a lot of manpower to pull from. Then, have the Greeks and Spartans. Which were all small warring states. Man power was at a premium. So they used advance smithing and metal techniques to forge far better weapons and armor. All to increase survival on the field of battle. Yet of course they did not have numbers. So they would have lost in no time.

[@xkornik1]

And after Thermopylae they changed their name from "Immortals" to "A pile of rotten meat". It was because they turned into a pile of rotten meat. Never making a sound.

[@xkornik1]

...the rest just fled away.

[@sassycassgames3158]

Qardo From what I had been taught, it was an etymological thing. I was told that the Persian name for them meant, "The Brotherhood," or something like that, but either the Persian world for Immortal and brotherhood were very similar or the Persian word for Brotherhood was similar to the Greek one for Immortal.

[@avery9689]

When your on night duty, but the trees start speaking Farsi. ⊙~⊙

[@ehsanrezaei9029]

😁😁😁😁

[@muizzmustafa4438]

LOLL

[@icantcomeupwithagoodusername24]

Long time later in 1968: American soldier in Vietnam tells joke the trees start to laugh US soldier:......

[@midnight_rose2337]

@@icantcomeupwithagoodusername24 When you’re American and the trees start speaking Vietnamese.

[@Julianna.Domina]

👁️👄👁️

[@jimboa20]

I think the story of Thermopylae also became legend because everyone loves a good story about a last stand, where a small band takes on a great army, fighting and dying bravely for their cause. It's why we Americans still remember the Alamo, despite it being a total defeat with no real military strategic significance. Those who fought and died there, like Leonidas, have become immortal.

[@derekbates4316]

And, lets not forget Custer or Wake Island. After all that, we still haven't learned to avoid such senseless slaughters.

[@NorthSeaRaider]

It’s true. Though they lost, they have become legend.

[@gianniskostakis8249]

Who betrayed the greeks !?!?! It was Walpole......

[@jakarnilson]

Ephialtes is the Greek translation of Walpole?

[@gianniskostakis8249]

jakarnilson well in greek ephialtes means nightmare

[@qwertyzxcvbn6929]

So... same thing?

[@jakarnilson]

I know it means nightmare. Which is why I jokingly asked on the old brick joke.

[@robertwalpole360]

IT! WAS! WALPOLE!

[@rexrowan6411]

Not *THIS IS SPARTA* ?

[@johnhenderson4833]

Awesome action film and comic series, not very accurate, a bit like Marvel's Norse mythology actually, awesome but accuracy is not important.

[@knightshade1297]

I am disappointed too

[@enlightedjedi]

Yes indeed why let a good History lesson get in the way of one liners :)!

[@AnimeOtaku2]

enlighted Jedi When it comes to Sparta you can get both, laconic speech was named after their country Laconia.

[@enlightedjedi]

I though my same point would have got across. This is why we need communication I guess :)!

[@AubriGryphon]

The laconic Greek phrase for "come and take it" can equally be interpreted as "come get some". Spartans were clever with wordplay like that.

[@KasumiRINA]

Dukes Nukemoss

[@saeedvazirian]

And yet they got some. Lol.

[@therealchen]

@@saeedvazirian More than they asked too.

[@CIoudStriker]

MOLON LABE

[@AubriGryphon]

@@CIoudStriker This is your regular reminder that 100 years after Thermopylae, Sparta got their asses handed the them by freakin' THEBES.

[@jennifershay8980]

"We are all the inheiritors of both." What a beautiful line to end on. Thank you for your nuanced and entertaining coverage of Thermopylae.

[@MM-xm5vx]

Extra Credits Extra History Extra Sci-Fi Extra politics You guys are the best channel on KZbin.

[@enlightedjedi]

And it is not even porn :)!

[@chittychittybangbang5855]

Hope it is still as good as this now seeing as dan left a few weeks agi

[@et496]

Extra Mythology

[@Hari-me2bq]

and Extra Mythology

[@negiji8102]

How can you forget extra mythology

[@1987MartinT]

The highest estimate I've heard of the Persian casualties at Thermopylae is 10.000. It may be just 4% of their forces, but that is still a massive number when you consider that their 250.000 strong army fought against an enemy which numbered at most 7000.

[@serialkillerwhale]

Most of whom escaped too.

[@PolishNomad95]

I forget the source, but I remember reading that in most classical warfare the losing side would only lose 10-20% of their forces before they broke or retreated and any further casualties we're from the mop-up by the victors. So that 4% loss, especially when fighting such a numerically disadvantaged foe, could have been considered a very costly victory.

[@1987MartinT]

serialkillerwhale Yeah. The Greeks lost the battle, but this was really not much of a victory for the Persians either.

[@mathewfinch]

It also needs to be remembered that the only real source we have for this is Herodotus, who did have an invested interest in possibly inflating some of these numbers.

[@1987MartinT]

mathewfinch You can say that again! He claimed that the Persian army numbered 2.000.000 men!

[@TheAgamemnon911]

Oh, I never forget about Salamis, when I'm making pizza.

[@autistiumhydroxide3614]

Got 'em!

[@epicfailurecz2083]

"Oh stranger, tell the Lacedaemonians that we lie here, obedient to our laws"

[@aantony2001]

"«ὦ ξεῖν', ἀγγέλλειν Λακεδαιμονίις ὅτι τῇδε κείμεθα τοῖς κείνων ῥήμασι πειθόμενοι.»"

[@aantony2001]

What is interesting is that this is not written in Spartan Doric. Artistic Ancient Greek text such as this used its own mix of dialects to portray different styles. The word for "stranger" uses the Ionian form, which I believe is also the Epic (Homeric) form, used to portray, for lack of a better word, seriousness.

[@user-wr7fc3db9w]

written by Simon of Kea (modern day isl. Tzia). He was a lyric poet who also wrote a line for the battle of marathon earlier. He literally signed the greco-persian wars with his words.

[@danieljohnson5064]

sadly very few people will get this

[@saeedvazirian]

the irony

[@walpol3]

THIS. IS. PERSIA *fires a bunch of arrows*

[@weebshit1048]

It was Walpole hehehe

[@walpol3]

Jeggdude 000 Leonidas was such a bore. Plus, because of the loss, we have western culture as we know it. Uh, _you’re welcome_ ?

[@namaske2594]

*_Blocks all arrows with Spartan foot_*

[@manband20]

THIS. IS. WALPOLE.

[@Loyal2Luna]

GASP! WALPOLE IT WAS YOU! I KNEW IT!

[@surperian4340]

And after that Greece and Anatolia would never hate each other EVER again! NEVERRRRRRRR

[@hamzaferoz6162]

Surperian lol

[@xandermurdock6131]

Ehhhhhhhhhhhhhh wrong.

[@enlightedjedi]

Those friendly Ottomans :)!

[@daderpman1018]

And those friendly turks sending jets to Greece's airspace :)!

[@Artur_M.]

Well, for most of the following history Anatolia was pretty Greek itself.

[@ethantemple506]

You guys should cover Alexander The Great!

[@daderpman1018]

Yeah, it would fit in with the new Macedonian name agreement. Maybe it will reduce tensions by making those slavs realise they aren't Macedonians.

[@aantony2001]

It would garner quite a lot of attention from disillusioned Greeks who think he destroyed the Persian administration and replaced it with Greek systems.

[@thresh86]

Why bother and destroy something that works over a vast empire ?

[@chrisstamatis3570]

We don't think that aantony.

[@daderpman1018]

Alexander knew he couldn't keep a vast empire together with an iron fist. He dreamed of an empire to modern day China, so he basically said "Oh your king just died in battle? Well no problem im your king now, go on." I think the thing you may be mistaking it for is either the Hellenistic kingdoms or the actions Alexander did to keep the empire together.

[@KingDomo]

"Immortal in name perhaps but not in body. That much was clear by dusk." get *ROASTED*

[@moojesticcookie1456]

Dom's Place wow that line came up as l was reading your comment.

[@saeedvazirian]

Is that why they won? Because you're still butthurt about Immortals?

[@seniorresearcher9752]

*THROUGH TRAITORS HAND SECRET PASSAGE TO THEIR LAND* *KNOW HIS NAME KNOW HIS SHAME WILL LAST FOREVER**

[@IrritatorProductions]

SPARTA! HELLAS! the and again! King of 300 men! SLAUGHTER! PERSIANS! glory in death! Spartas will never surrender!

[@kandam5517]

@@IrritatorProductions hoo ha hoo ha noises

[@c.ruizhong5120]

Amazing distillation of the significance of the Battle of Thermopylae. Really enjoyed how you guys kept highlighting the importance of needing to read between the lines and delving beyond what is on the page itself. Stellar job and you have my unwavering support in how your channel stirs the mind and at its best, the soul as well. Bravo.

[@commandervulkan]

Greeks are OP plz nerf

[@Tosei0816]

commandervulkan Got nerf in civ4, Macedonia is now the OP one.

[@JollyOldCanuck]

commandervulkan Well modern Greece has been severely nerfed.

[@rjswonson]

Yea Greece is broken early game, it gets balanced out by the "Turkish Occupation" and "Crippling Modern Debt" modifiers late game.

[@Silverhawk100]

I hear next patch they're getting Romanized and turned into a province.

[@robertwalpole360]

Nop. Lol! ;)

[@tomfranck8821]

You'd almost think Sneider's film wasn't historically acurate or something.

[@claudiu-mihaipuiu1221]

That's because the movie wasn't trying to be historically accurate, it was trying to stay faithful to its original source, which was a graphic novel, not actual history.

[@tomfranck8821]

That was kinda my point. Nothing about that movie screams "realistic". It was meant as a joke, that's all.

[@metalicscraping2799]

it's a story being told by a spartan, it's a bit more accurate than you think

[@owbu]

Heresy!

[@SeanHiruki]

It’s 100% accurate. To the Frank Miller Comic.

[@arnaudgagnon1879]

Hey guys, just wanted to point a little mistake you made in the video: no men from Thebes fought alongside the Spartans at the Thermophylae: the Theban, the third major player in Greek's history sided with the Persian. The greek alliance even sacked the city in retribution after Plataea's victory.

[@norigib6186]

Arnaud Gagnon Waiting for the lies now.

[@KamikazKid]

Actually it's thought that the Thebans at Thermopylae were rebels, outcasts from Thebes who refused to side with Persia while the rest of the city did. Although it's also just as possible that the various cities written of didn't actually participate, and the rest of the soldiers were little more than mercenaries. Herodotus invests a lot of time & effort in the idea of a unified Greece, and this is an area where he may have exaggerated to further that idea. There's a fascinating lecture from Yale professor Donald Kagan on it here on youtube.

[@Oxtocoatl13]

I think that`s the reason they were referred to as Theban "loyalists". If I recall correctly, they were exiles who`d essentially betrayed their home city by joining Leonidas. This also helps explain why they chose to fight to the end: they had nothing to go back to, except execution.

[@KamikazKid]

Oxtocoatl13 exactly, thank you.

[@thuglifebear5256]

That's not true. Weren't the allies with the 300 men the Thebians?

[@breiter4697]

I just cant imagine how scary it would of been at Thermopylae. Your surrounded, ur leader falls early, no hope of survival. Wow!

[@Agyrius]

Brisbin Reiter But if you die anyway then why not take some persians with you?

[@breiter4697]

Yep, good point

[@breiter4697]

Spartans have balls of steel

[@banker8692]

if i knew i was going to die on a battlefield i would make it a good death and not go out without a bang

[@breiter4697]

double D studios ya and that's what the Spartans felt

[@PaulDozierZZoMBiE13]

"We are all the inheritors of both". I like that quote a lot. Nicely done EH! As always.

[@IntoTheOrdinary]

This is probably the best and most nuanced (yet brief) retelling of this history. Well done! Again!

[@samvadivelu4316]

The spartan king had only one response, "Come and Take Them" Thug Life...

[@tomfranck8821]

I'm supprised Leonidas and his men could fight with those massive iron balls they had swinging around, sheesh!

[@Leivve]

Spartans are over hyped. They were just a professional army in a time of levy and conscripts. Every time in history they went up against another professional they were given a humiliating defeat. Sparta gave a similar response to Philip of Macedon that they gave Persia. When Philip failed to respond by attacking Sparta directly he responded "Cause you're not worthy to face my army." And instead he cut off a lot of Sparta's territory and gave it to neighboring city stats; effectively putting Sparta in a corner, and strengthening it's rivals that were already loyal to Philip.

[@tomfranck8821]

I wasn't talking about ability just about the fact those crazy bastards deside "you know we are dead anyway let's take as many of those bastards with us as possible". You can't say that doesn't take stones.

[@majan6267]

They literally were the inventors of the one-liner (laconic humor) like when Philipp II. of macedonia told them to submit, or if he came there with his army he would burn their city, the Spartan responce was "If"

[@andrew-paulclements1502]

Not as big as the Citizens who stayed behind with the Spartans. Spartans, they were trained from birth, trained to not fear death. The Citizen Hoplites from the other city states, they chose to fight to the death. They probably were terrified, but they fought anyway. The spartans were 'Brave' but not Couragous, the ones who showed Courage were those that fought on despite being terrified. [Note] For the sake of the statement, 'Brave' is not having fear, Courage is having fear but going on despite it. I do know that for all intents and purposes they are synonymous.

[@theobvu]

no they are not overhyped they hold the record for most undefeated major battles it is documented search it

[@Matthew-du1ef]

You should do your next series on the Peloponnesian war, as a sequel and in honour of assassin's creed Odyssey

[@Agyrius]

YEAH WITH THE DARN BLADE OF LEONIDAS! God i hate it...

[@Tosei0816]

Dont do it without sponsorship, gotta milk Ubi.

[@Leivve]

Tell Ubi to sponsor them.

[@IkeOkerekeNews]

With Origins, yes they should be.

[@Matthew-du1ef]

HarcosXP yes, syndicate and unity were below average, but after origins they are

[@ProfessorTerrible]

Excellent episode. I've always been frustrated with the popular account of Thermopylae as only involving the Spartans on the Hellenic side, a problem that was only compounded by 300. The inclusion of the Thespians, Helots and Lydians was appreciated.

[@chowdhurysakib-uz-zaman1246]

You have no idea how much I love Extra History. The way you guys describe the events from a neutral point of view, the way you guys analyze it, are really extraordinary. Equally fascinating are your cartoon drawings. Please keep it up.

[@crimsonminotaur7662]

7:05 You said before that whilst the Battle of Thermopylae raged, the Athenian navy fought off the Persian navy and managed to evacuate Athens under Themistocles. So I'd count that as a tactical victory or delaying strategy in favor of the Greek City-States.

[@The360MlgNoscoper]

Ancient Dunkirk

[@therealchen]

The goal of the war was to burn athens. So no.

[@adamstevenson3170]

I was so caught up in other episodes, like the Genghis Khan and the great northern war, that I didn’t notice this till the end of The Khan episodes, and I didn’t want to want to watch until I finished the episodes. Congratulations. Your episodes of the past are still relevant today. Continue with the good work, including your History, mythology, Credits, politics, and Sci-fi series’s to help educate the world about all things.

[@shawnheatherly]

I love that closing message. The modern world has been influenced by everything that came before it.

[@saeedvazirian]

That is not a good thing.

[@Thessaloz]

Thats true, but not all influences are good.

[@sharilshahed6106]

@@saeedvazirian there's nothing good or bad about history by default.

[@Packless1]

8:55 ...the kamikaze-unit of the german Luftwaffe in late WW2 was named the 'Leonidas-Squadron'...!

[@Praecantetia]

Kudos to your animator. You manage to make history and battle strategy look very appealing

[@JMcMillen]

I think one reason people know the Battle of Thermopylae better is the same reason people know the Battle of the Alamo better than any other part of the Texas Revolution. It's the heroic sacrifice, fighting a battle you know you can't win, but will help win the war later on.

[@paulchapman8023]

From the other side of such a battle, I'm also reminded of Pyrrhus, who gave us the term "Pyrrhic victory."

[@VT-mw2zb]

Except that in the grand strategic terms, it didn't. It delayed the Persians 3 days. The next decisive battle was Salamis, and it was a naval battle a full month later. Battle of Platea was the next year and in the land march back, Xerxes lost more several times more men than he did at Thermopylae to disease, starvation, and other non-combat loss. See, that's why amateurs study tactics, professionals study logistics. Really, Thermistocles was the more important figure. He correctly identified that they needed a Navy. Naval strategy is build strategy: it takes time. If the enemy show up with more ships, you can't just frantically build more ships. You can hurriedly put men into armor, uniforms, and weapons on land, though. Without the Navy, Xerxes's force could easily landed behind Leonidas's back and kill everyone. They would also destroy the last holdout in Salamis very easily.

[@Ariaelyne]

Xuan Vinh To "If the enemy show up with more ships, you can't just frantically build more ships." For every rule there is an exception, case in point Rome in the First Punic War; literally created most of their navy during the war. Though yeah, Themistocles needs a great deal of credit for the victory.

[@jamestang1227]

Ariaelyne Well the First Punic War was over 20 years long so the Romans had time.

[@VT-mw2zb]

Ariaelyne depends on the time scale you are looking for, really. In the first Punic war, the inital naval advantage did not translate into decisive land invasion advantage. Fighting a war on foreign soil isn't easy. The Romans could force a decisive victory, albeit at great cost (1/5 adult male population, if I'm not wrong). Within the one month time scale of Xerxes campaign: no. The Greeks couldn't do that. Leonidas would have very quickly found out that he could not guard his rear. And the evacuated Athenians would also soon find a very angry Persian army and fleet blocking all communication to their last fortress. The only option would be starvation or capitulation. The Greeks could not have waited it out for the Persians to run out of food themselves because a) Persia was a big empire with good bureaucracy handling the very mundane task of logistics and feeding of troops (the biggest advantage of empires is the fact that they can project power far beyond their borders because surprise! They can feed their troops) and b) they hung around in Greece for a full year until the actual Platea. Btw, it was not mentioned but Thermistocles managed to get his fleet by drumming up Athenians hatred for a nearby island Agenia. Then to everyone's surprise, except Thermistocles Xerxes invaded with a big fleet and only Athens had a strong enough navy.

[@OscarPanczenko]

Beautiful narration. Amazing job guys! The best explanation of those events I've seen thus far.

[@sykeraid4944]

I love the 300 movie. It's gore and action are definitely something to behold. What I hate is how people see that movie and believe that the Greeks (and, therefore, the West) were symbols of 'freedom' and 'machismo' that were winning against this 'slave-driving' and 'feminine' Middle-Eastern enemy. Yeah, duh, I know that 300 was based on a Frank Miller comic that was not supposed to be taken seriously. The problem is people DO take it seriously. Despite the obvious fantasy facades, there are people who horrifyingly have this belief that the way Herodotus embellished the story is absolute truth.

[@ShinigamiInuyasha777]

History only is history when people belive it. No matter how different from facts this might be.

[@-haclong2366]

The 300 film borrows heavily from Ancient Greek propaganda but has a lot of historical accuracies (you read that right) that debunk many of Herodotus' claims, in fact in the film itself it weren't just 300 Spartans and the allies were mentioned. The focus just lied on the Spartans.

[@rockbarcellos]

Exactly, both in the comic and the movie it is stablished that the whole thing is a tale by this guy told in a way to inspire people, and that's why it's all super exagerated and fantastic

[@sykeraid4944]

Again, the problem is that people actually believe the propaganda.

[@thomaswilson3827]

Even the goat man and giant trolls?

[@pinkdogroslyn8832]

“We are all the inheritors of both” wonderful wording guys, giving me goosebumps over here.

[@anderskorsback4104]

I'm no inheritor of anything Greek or Persian. I am a descendant of barbarians who destroyed the Roman Empire, appropriated its identity and trappings, went on (much later) to dominate the world, then invented a story about their civilization having been born in Ancient Greece. So is pretty much every other contemporary Westerner. It's ironic how they say that "Greece is the cradle of Western civilization", but at the same, somehow, Russia is not considered part of the West, even though the cultural influence from Greece to Russia (via the Byzantine Empire and Kievan Rus) is much larger and much more direct.

[@giorgigogolashvili3097]

Leonidas looks too young in this depiction for a 60 year old

[@michaelmoore4043]

Wow 🏢🏢🏢

[@antediluvianspy1708]

And the Hellenic people keep being called Greek.

[@zekedia2223]

Wait he was 60?!?!

[@giorgigogolashvili3097]

@@zekedia2223 Yup

[@TheMan-je5xq]

@@zekedia2223 in at least his 50s

[@willemsamuel4068]

Been watching this channel for years, this episode stands out. An excellent retelling of the noble deaths of the Greeks, without glossing over the caveats, all tied up in an excellent example of how global identities grow.

[@CarlosRios1]

By traitor's hand Secret passage through their land Know his name, know his shame Will last forever

[@theArab__]

Carlos Rios SPARTANS! HELLAS!

[@kandam5517]

@@theArab__ THEN AND AGAIN SING OF 300 MEN

[@Archan2099]

One of the best Extra history series Made. Excellent job. The brevity and conciseness while carrying across the true or atleast logical character of the states involved was truly Epic

[@njvikesfan0162]

Many many years ago Persia came to shore Heeding Leonidas call The Spartans went to war

[@hotshot461]

Narrator: "Why do we remember Thermopaly? They failed to stop Xerxes" me: "DUDE, 7,000 Vs. 200,000"

[@lxathu]

The most balanced story telling and summing I've met. My full respect is yours.

[@CatholicDragoon]

The Persian elites were never called 'Immortals' that's a translation error on the part of Herodotus. The actual name would be closer to Companions, and since Macedon spent some time as a subject of Persia this would indicate that Alexander's famed Companion Cavalry may have some inspiration from the east.

[@CatholicDragoon]

It's a problem because later authors made it a big deal. The name Immortals has been used as an example of how arrogant and tyrannical the Persians were. The scene from 300 when they were introduced is a great example, as every word from the narrator expresses how they are a force Terror and not an elite unit.

[@thehunter5311]

THIS IS a nice video thanks

[@user-zj9zm4kw8x]

I knew how extraordinary this channel is, but this episode (and the previous) extra prove it. I mean that explanation of the "written history" how it works and its effects. It shows transparency in visions. Great job! I love everything on your channel!!!

[@KTA1sVidsandFacts]

The ending statement was beautifully said.

[@jbkjbk1999]

I think it's dumb and reductionist when people pretend that the democracy of Athens has anything to do with our modern democracy. If anything, Rome is the ancient republic that we nicked a lot of ideas from, not Athens. In reality, though, we have only really taken the names from those ancient republics. Our modern democracy would be unrecognisable to any ancient Roman or Athenian. Edit: I don't want to engage with the youtube reply system, so I'm just going to expand on a few things here. By "we" I was referring to the US and UK (which, given that I'm neither American nor British and have never been to the US, is admittedly a bit weird, yeah), and by "nicked a lot of ideas from" I mean the word 'senate', the fascis symbol, etc., i.e a bunch of symbolism and wording, but not really any actual direct influence of how the system works. Compared to the democracies of ancient times, even the US looks like a utopia of representation. I think focus should be more on what modern events and forces created the ideas that have led to our modern democracies, rather than the things that ostensibly "inspired" them. Modern democracy is a result of changing material conditions (improving standard of living and education, for ex.), not a re-discovery of a long lost system of government that everyone suddenly agreed was better.

[@gacorley]

I see it as sort of an evolutionary thing. Certain early ideas came from Athens, but it took a long time for that to evolve into the systems we have today. And it's still evolving.

[@coffeemugentertainment3811]

Yep, that's how history and the refinement of techniques and politics. Same with storytelling, we may take the name and base ideas of something like Hercules but you'd be laughed out of any publishing house if you introduced a new story with the same feel of Hercules. Of course they don't resemble the Athenians or Romans, they've evolved far past that point and have been far more fine tuned... then de-tuned into a system riddled with its own problems.

[@d_wang9836]

Totally Not A Cylon Though it was still a big step forward even if it is backwards by our standards

[@cseijifja]

Totally Not A Cylon the idea that every man is the same is french, after all.

[@rjfaber1991]

"We" have taken the names from ancient republics? I live in what Economist Intelligence Unit ranks as one of the most democratic countries on earth, but it sure as hell isn't a republic...

[@SarahExpereinceRequiem]

Tell the Spartans, stranger passing by, that here obedient to their laws we lie.

[@Vicioussama]

I thought it was recorded that Xerxes opted to not use arrows/bows for a LONG time to honor the Greek way. That Xerxes was actually more honorable than certain media show :P

[@antediluvianspy1708]

Yes this is true. He really wanted their respect so he could make them his. So he could over tax them and use their elite armies. Also, Spartans were NOT Greek. Xerxes also eventually honoured and created the long tradition in the middle east of child brides. But nobody brings that up.

[@DiaperGranny11]

He had the body of Leonidas decapitated and crucified. That was a HUGE act of sacrilege back then. Most sources I've seen note that he regretted it immediately and had the body laid with the rest of the Greeks. Xerxes was apparently prone to moments of blind anger, but was apparently a pretty honorable man

[@Monochromicornicopia]

@Theo Dore Spartans were Greeks as much as Macedonians and Athenians were. Stop trying to draw arbitrary distinctions.

[@theArab__]

Theo Dore there is literally no evidence of most of your statements

[@theArab__]

Theo Dore also child brides middle eastern tradition? Last I checked Saudi Arabia is not the whole middle east

[@TehAxelius]

Eh, I find the connection between Sparta and Citizen Service to be strenous at best, as I would say it is more related to the tradition of the Roman legions, which was more based on the citizen militia of other Greek city-states rather than the rather extreme Spartan version of soldier citizens.

[@natansilva6180]

The final lines made wanna cry, for real. That s the f*cking mankind, bros .

[@MakLife]

I suggest as a sequel to this you should do Alexander the great.

[@Thessaloz]

He did use as an excuse to attack Persia that they will come again so its time for Greeks to attack.

[@Kristian.B.Kristiansen]

Some of the best, most balanced and nuanced work you have done. Very impressive!

[@jakobbrown6028]

I hope one day you guys could do a history one on the Battle of the Alamo during the Texan Revolution

[@MrMighty147]

We don't remember Thermopylae because of its significance. We remember it because the Spartans instrumentalized this event to create the spartan myth.

[@isaackarjala7916]

MrMighty147 they created a meme.

[@YksiSuomalainen]

It's not a "myth" if its true.

[@rifkifanani3694]

The Finn "if"

[@Touchii]

@@rifkifanani3694 it's true.

[@rifkifanani3694]

Touchii which one?

[@ArkadiBolschek]

Well, that was one hell of an Extra History chapter. Nice job guys, ten out of ten.

[@haroldparsons9727]

This is one of my favorite stories from history. Im glad I got to hear it in old narrator's voice. New guy gets a chance, but that voice is half the reason I love this channel so much.

[@sudyotmansudershan8707]

Many many years ago, when Persia came ashore Heeding Leonidas' call the Spartans went to war Joined by their brothers, a few against the fateful horde Hellenic hearts are set aflame, the hot gates calls their name

[@kandam5517]

A FINAL STAND

[@cb41503]

STOP THE PERSIANS, SPEAR IN HAND

[@z20man10]

STOP THE PERSIANS, SPEAR IN HAND

[@PiratesRock]

History, especially popular history, is often used to satisfy a modern, present narrative than just looking into the past, for learning or its own sake. (Such as the 'Great Man' theory of history). So, when Herodotus ("Father of History") used his brain child in such a manner, he's just establishing a tradition that future generations will follow, when you think about it.

[@ellet.478]

Daaaaaaaaaan!!! Seriously, though, I'm looking forward to see how Not-Dan handles Extra History episodes.

[@ellet.478]

I'm excited to see how Matt's narration style changes the feel of Extra History. It's bound to have some effect on the way these episodes play out, since he's, y'know... not Dan. :)

[@asherketchup7013]

Shapur Hakhamaniash Dan left recently but he said hell narrate some of the new EH videos and other projects but it'll slowly transition to Matt

[@wankawanka3053]

Pretty sure the thespians stayed because their city was right next to the battle field

[@sikViduser]

Love that quote at the end. Thank you for making this video.

[@johnbagel2560]

This is the kind of thing I expect from some dark twist on the lord or the rings not real life. This is truly awe inspiring.

[@qwertyzxcvbn6929]

Real life can be stranger than you'd think, look into it more and you'll see really crazy stuff - like Acibiades, holy crap the amount of shit he managed to get away with is ridiculous.

[@oneofmanyjames-es1643]

I'm surprised you didn't go into more detail about the phalanx or the Battle of Platea, it was kinda important.

[@banker8692]

i would want entire video's on that

[@SantomPh]

no need. this is not Historia Civilis or Kings & Generals. Sorry.

[@joshua41175]

Yeah but those aren't maps in total war arena.

[@craftpaint1644]

Ah yeah, economics. Sigh.

[@saeedvazirian]

Platea wasn't important at all.

[@m.jacobi6276]

We are all the inheritor of both, beautiful statement

[@manie.8241]

Another great Extra history series. Next I'd love to see an Extra History on ancient China and its many dynasties

[@murdochakgae2459]

as always you are the best history channel i know :)

[@l.ross.6400]

It's funny to know than, at this time, in China, the war is between a lot of kingdom and the armies are more big than the and more technologically advenced with crossbow can piercing Greek shield and armor. Hey, why not a Extra History about Sun tzu ?

[@yakovperelman4665]

What a brilliant message this video sends. Thanks.

[@stanklepoot]

Thermopylae is probably so well remembered for the same reason that we "remember the Alamo" or the Battle of the Bulge. There's just something inspiring about a stubborn refusal to submit, no matter how great the odds against you. Whether that choice ends in success (like Bastogne) or utter failure (like the Alamo and Thermopylae), ultimately it's the effects those desperate stands have on others that tend to have the more lasting impact. When the need eventually arises, those stands can be looked back to as an example for people to try and live u to. Would you rather act like a hero of old, or cave to an enemy that would brutalize your people and defile your land? The truth of the circumstance isn't really the issue here. It's an emotional response, and one that encourages behavior (often sacrificial) from which the rational mind would typically shrink.

[@napoleonibonaparte7198]

Is it just me? Every time I think of Thermopylae, I always think about “Meet the Spartans”

[@scottydu81]

A fucking setzerberg movie?! For shame...

[@ionastriantafillou9215]

3:25 Xerxes had offered a farmer named Ephialtes a lot of goods and then he leaded them to that path , yes im greek

[@peterozug8728]

Interesting take as always. Please keep up the good work.

[@eruyommo]

You all are the inheritors of both. That moved me so much.

[@daniel_sannguyen]

4:06 the traitor’s name is Ephialtes, which today means “nightmare” in Greek. Some relation

[@shikharsrivastava4922]

Actually the name was strange even then. Ephialtes was one of the giants that mounted a campaign to take olympus (the seat of Greek gods) and more importantly, captured and tortured ares, patron of Sparta.

[@calebmorrison6057]

We remember Thermopylae because it is awesome. A tiny army holding a pass against an endless ocean of enemies in an epic last stand.

[@wifi_is_gone7283]

Thank you for making history fun and entertaining.

[@andrewtolu4213]

I love the way that they do these videos

[@Robert-ji5dk]

Thespians? So your telling me 300 gets bonus points for being on film?

[@sergiobosque7416]

These greeks look very tanned. Today, they are not distinguishable from us spaniards. How much of that comes from historical research, and how much of it is artistic, to make them easily distinguishable from the persians?

[@amanworthy]

probably all of it from historical research. I don't think the greeks were super pale.

[@babookitsiki4008]

Sergio Bosque It was over 2000 years ago. You can't deduce a people's skin color based on the skin color of some people that may be or may be not their descendants (and whose blood relation is rather doubtful). Plus it was summer, August, and they trained outdoors all day long. Seriously why does everyone think that Europeans = super pale blonde blue-eyed Anglos?

[@Alsemenor]

Sergio Bosque I dont understand why the Persians/easterners look whiter than the Greeks.

[@Soletestament]

Well you see there was this MMO called Outside... It was way more popular back then than it is today.

[@Thessaloz]

@Babooki Tsiki Btw i live in Thessaly (in the middle of Greece), myheritage had me around 70% Greek and 10% Italian and ancestry 75% Europe south and there are plenty of Greeks and western Turks in the web that have the same results, just search it.

[@VYxFrost]

Thanks for being far more legit than a former history teacher I had t suffer through in college XP

[@whitearabianhorses]

I love the way you tell these stories!!

[@Krescentwolf]

Leonidas had one response? "THIS.IS.SPARTA!"

[@alexbecker2578]

Krescentwolf Leonidas had one response Ok

[@deanspanos8210]

This is madness.

[@bubblebreak4160]

Molon Labe you plebeian

[@Leivve]

Didn't another Greek historian write a piece from the Persian side, just cause he felt they were being unjustly vilified?

[@sean668]

Lucian of Samosata wrote a comedy where he found Herodotus being slow-roasted for lying on a magical island. I think it's fair to say he didn't have the best reputation

[@NA-ck6cz]

Leivve Many Greeks submitted to the Persians and felt that they had more in common with them than the other city states

[@charisbrakatselos8998]

Totally impressed by the accuracy of the historical details, and more importanlty, by the objective penetrative interpretation.

[@Ryuhikuro]

that's a really nice way of promoting interest in history, as always

[@alecdeter1999]

Shout out to the thespians and thebians that stayed behind along with the Spartan slave warriors

[@Pingthescribe]

I get how the Persian tactics aren't going to work, but I still don't get how a wicker shield would offer any defense.

[@BifronsCandle]

It's light and good at glancing blows, just not directly absorbing them.

[@wilber2k06]

Excellent clip and line, "...we are all the inheritors of both..."

[@vazak11]

Great stuff, very clear cut!

[@drakan4769]

Well, the greeks really only "sort of" lost, the majority of the army successfully retreated after incurring considerable losses on the enemy, while they did get though the pass losing that many troops in the process is practically the definition of a pyrrhic victory.

[@arnejanett3273]

This gets me hyped af for Assassins Creed Odyssey

[@genomngupok4442]

Arne Janett yep me too

[@KasumiRINA]

Creative Assembly paying to advertise for Ubisoft, the irony!

[@TheCreepypro]

very nice ec always love when this story is told in it's actuality as opposed to romantically how you often hear it told

[@amin_ij1800]

as a Persian myself i love to see actual history because movies and games made Persia look like a blood hungry country but thank you for the knowledge you add to us everyday