The Battle of Wolf 359 - Captain Liam Shaw - Star Trek Picard

This is the first scene in 25 years that has made me cry. The previous one was from Voyager's episode with the future Borg drone, with Seven saying "Please... you are hurting me."

[@matrix128500]

This scene is something special. Season 3 has proven that they can still do Star Trek, and Todd owns his role. I'd love to see a spin off with him, and if we don't get that, the guy deserves awards for is portrayal of this Captain.

[@sarcasticstartrek7719]

May I say check this link kzbin.info/www/bejne/pZ-4gKOMd96kesk it is another of my vids, and it's this scene, just... different. I have ptsd myself. That episode broke me and it energised me, concurrently. How that episode portrays ptsd and survivor guilt is... it's on the mark. TOO on the mark. It's... it.

[@gimmeboobes]

@@999benhonda Different time, different people, different circumstances. Sisko was an officer being briefed on and accepting another assignment. Shaw was off duty, on medication and in a relaxed situation, with lots of pent-up issues. And humans will still be fundamentally human, no different than now. The idea that humans will somehow be fundamentally different in the future is silly. They have been how they are since humans came on the scene, and will be in the 23rd, 24th and 25th centuries. Society may be better, but humans will be fundamentally who they are.

[@astro_karbowski]

Have to say, I hope Captain Shaw is a part of any future nu-Trek shows. Would be cool to see him appear in Lower Decks as he works his way to command or in another capacity in live action. Really love Todd Stashwick in the role, he brings a sort of realness to the Captaincy like Avery Brooks did for Sisko. I love his little snide comments and dry humor, it reminds me of the cool and capable officers I have encountered in my time in the service. I work with an officer regularly who is just a little more chipper version of Captain Shaw.

[@eamonnmulhern2332]

Personally. He should have said. So deadly they gave him a FUCKING name.....

[@lordorion5776]

@@eamonnmulhern2332 i personally hate the aversion to swears in this scene it would of made sense

[@thomasomahony5973]

Whenever Picard encounters a Starfleet officer who cryptically says they've met before and he can't recall it, it must give him the WORST anxiety.

[@PrestigeLearning]

Judging from Picard’s expression, I think by now he just KNOWS what’s coming whenever any unknown Starfleet officer claims to have met him. . Sisko can’t have been the only other survivor he’s met

[@greggstrasser5791]

It wouldn’t cause anxiety. He’d see Troi until he forgave himself.

[@jricks3909]

I agree. The idea that as Locutus he left so many survivors when he probably thought he would have been more efficient as a Borg must haunt him.

[@drockjr]

​@Prestige Learning yeah, Picard definitely has had time to reflect and process.

[@willt3223]

@@PrestigeLearning picard have perfect memory recall now. Hes an android.

[@bluefootwalking]

"The only Borg so deadly that they gave him a name" DAMN...his disapproval of Seven makes sense now.

[@yuri172xy5]

They gave him a goddamn name

[@bluejays25]

Exactly, although I do wonder whether he had a say in having Seven as his first officer. I suspect that he didn't want her but got overruled.

[@BlazingOwnager]

I love how they set him up so perfectly to be an unreasonable two dimensional dick, but once you learn this, everything he did makes complete sense.

[@tmofee]

@@bluejays25 you don’t say no to Jane way

[@Benson7290]

​@Terry O'Fee who at this point is an admiral, which I remembered as soon as I read this. With Janeway as well as her having the ear of admiral Paris it is safe to assume he had zero choice.

[@kristiandepue5374]

Without a Borg in sight, this one scene made them scary again.

[@scpguy1381]

Not for Shaw, for Shaw theirs one sitting right across from him

[@justiceriser8970]

Well they came back it more a hidden foreshadowing than scary sence

[@clancyholdopen3781]

“She didn’t even count herself” A lovely reminder of how Gene saw humanity in the future, and his hope that we would become better than we are.

[@scotch3554]

That would absolutely happen today, and has on many occasions. Listen to people’s war stories it’s filled with things like this

[@twohorsesinamancostume7606]

After Chernoblyl exploded General Vladimir Pikalov was the guy in command of the Nuclear, Biological and Chemical Protection Troops of the Russian Armed Forces. Basically the guys you send in to work in an NBC environment. Arriving a few hours after the explosion he needed to get an accurate measurement of how much radiation had been released. He could have sent a couple grunts to take care of it, but no. He went himself. He drove twice around the plant and twice up to the reactor to get an accurate measurement. A good officer will not subject their men to anything they aren't willing to do themselves. It's an officer's job to take care of their men, whether that be physically or mentally and emotionally.

[@erikberg8098]

An officer is supposed to take care of those under their command…even if that means they have to sacrifice themselves to do it.

[@kaosdrachen]

@@erikberg8098 Also, if she /had/ picked herself that could've undone the discipline that had still held and turned the entire deck into a free-for-all brawl that nobody would have gotten out alive from.

[@axelfoley1406]

...Well in the military you still follow orders.

[@NLaertes]

Robért Picard: "This is going to be with you a long time, Jean-Luc...a long time"

[@SoranoGuardias]

Here we see two forms of PTSD. One is survivor's guilt. One is that of a manipulated victim who has long ago learned to live with his trauma.

[@Twister6424]

Did he though? Did he learn to live with the trauma? Seems to me it was on the verge of showing itself many years later!

[@reidtyndall4953]

@@Twister6424 if you’re referring to First Contact then you’re right. He had never fully recovered. Even in the episode I, Borg, Picard was still having serious issues with his experience. But if you’re talking about that little panic attack he had on the cube in Season 1, that was just garage writing so 🤷🏻‍♂️

[@cane6074]

@@Twister6424 I don't think you get over a trauma like that, Picard has shown that he has come to terms with what happened and learn to live with it, but still effects him. But he has moved on from it.

[@Bitchslapper316]

@@Twister6424 Yes, he's learned to live with it. There was an entire TNG episode focused on this. It changed him forever and he will always have PTSD but he is able to move on with his life and function at a high capacity. He has a similar reaction when Admiral Satie accused him of being complicit with the Borg. When she said that you can see it cut deep but he didn't try to argue against it like he did here. He just accepted it and tried to move on. Similar situation with Sisko.

[@priyonjoni]

The line is drawn here! This far, no further!

[@cleekmaker00]

The muted screams and explosions in the background as Shaw is retelling his gruesome ordeal are so powerful, like the muted trumpet fanfare behind Khan as he taunted Kirk, believing he marooned Kirk inside the moon Regula and sealed his fate.

[@SpeedyEric1]

As well as the muted “I am Locutus of Borg” line from the end of “The Best of Both Worlds, Part 1.”

[@happisakshappiplace.6588]

Thats his trauma playing in his head.

[@Quetzalcoatl_Feathered_Serpent]

More hints and bits of lore of wolf 359. A battle we never saw but each time we get a glimpse it gets more tragic, more horrifying

[@Tk52781]

Stewart was amazing in this scene. Picard has probably had this happen to him countless times. When he says “it’s alright” he’s not mad or defensive, he’s telling Shaw it’s ok to lash out at him, he understands and he’s ok with it. And the look on Shaw’s face when he understands what Picard is doing. This might be one of the best scenes ever in Trek. They both killed it.

[@Durwood71]

Picard almost sounds defeated when he says, "It's alright."

[@erikberg8098]

What could he possibly say to him? “I’m sorry. I’d been kidnapped & assimilated. I tried to fight them but they had everything in my brain?” It’s 30 years later & the survivors have all heard it before, countless times, from friends and family, therapists & fellow vets drinking with them in bars just like that. Knowing something in your head & feeling it in your heart are two different things. And at this point all Picard can do is just take it and acknowledge their pain, along with his own.

[@meta0269]

No i think it was accepted that starfleet officers were evolved enough to realise when someone had no control over their actions. This scene is powerful but ultimately poorly aligned with star trek.

[@christophernemeth421]

​@@meta0269Sisko had similar issues with Picard

[@Arfarf69]

@@Durwood71he made peace with it and doesn’t feel guilty nor he should

[@Turboy65]

This was one hell of a scene. In this scene, Captain Shaw stopped becoming a background character and suddenly became the Captain of a Starship with a story and a personality and a style and you suddenly become very interested in him and what happens to him next. You might even be seeing the next Star Trek Captain to get his own series in the future. The next Picard. The next Next Generation. I'd be in favor of it.

[@coreymoore2719]

If we liked him enough that's a distinct possibility... Look at Anson Mount

[@cwp4eva]

@@coreymoore2719Anson won’t be in the next season of BNW right? Isn’t Paul Wesley taking his place

[@coreymoore2719]

@@cwp4eva do you mean Strange New Worlds?... I don't really know what else he's in LOL... I haven't heard anything about him being replaced, he's the whole reason for the show... It was his performance as Captain Pike that made fans want strange new worlds, And he killed it

[@RaulSmith]

I could easily see it happen, and I for one would be handing my monthly sub to P+ just for that alone

[@atoll2453]

Is he a true starfleet type tho? for an action thriller not named Star Trek maybe he'd be great but it feels he lacks the nuance.

[@randomscribblings7192]

Really drives home how there are probably a lot of Starfleet officers who feel this way about Picard. Sisko seemed like an outlier in DS9 but the sheer number of people that were involved really changes the perspective of how Wolf 359 affected Starfleet.

[@lazmanariffsulaiman7569]

Wolf 359 was a wake up call for them. 1 unknown ship decimated half a fleet's worth of ships in 1 battle. Ironically, this prepared Starfleet for the Dominion Wars that is soon to come in the years after.

[@alanfangor]

not really there weren't that many survivors

[@alexvernelli6512]

You never really see the family members of the fallen either taking picard to task.

[@Anduril74871]

This isn't the first time Picard has been faced with a Wolf 359 survivor. Sisko faced him with fury boiling below the surface, but knew that he'd be in trouble if he acted violently towards a (then)superior officer. Here, Shaw is technically on medical leave and Picard is retired. Neither's on duty and Shaw's pain medications likely kept him from thinking about how bad an idea this was. And when Picard is leaving, you can see that moment where Shaw won't take back what he said, but does regret the way he said it. I've been one of those who thought Shaw was a Wolf 359 survivor from episode 1 and Todd Stashwick nailed this moment that it all just bubbled out.

[@chrisstetsko5020]

Makes you wonder how many other times (albeit off camera) Picard has had run-ins with survivors of Wolf-359 or family members of the 11K+ victims. Perhaps its a reason why Admiral Clancy holds such a big deep grudge.

[@ariatrent6263]

As I recall (it’s been a while) on DS9, the next time Sisko saw Picard it seemed like he had almost forgiven him? I remember it really made me like Sisko.

[@chrisstetsko5020]

@@ariatrent6263 IDK about forgiven. But he understood it wasn't Picard's fault. But with that said, Picard would never be one of Sisko's favorite people in Starfleet.

[@Anduril74871]

@@ariatrent6263 He was definitely far more cordial. His experience with the Prophets helped him really examine his life and trauma.

[@trymetal95]

Just an incredible portrayal of survivor's guilt and a lot of repressed rage, 100% believable. And not just that but you can feel the character has been rehearsing this in his mind for decades, everything he'd want to say to Picard/Locutus but alas also how it brought him no peace to get it out. I hope he gets good roles in the future because the man can act.

[@SamanthaMunitz]

"Forgive me. At somepoint asshole became a substitute for charm." One of the best lines ever for season 3 of Picard.

[@Twister6424]

Indeed it is...that said...an officer at that rank and responsibility should know better than to put himself in that situation. He's a Captain...that rank is not given to the weak of mind or heart. I'm assuming of course that it's based on the current military standards.

[@carriew5106]

​@@Twister6424I know what you mean but I imagine there would be very few senior officers in Starfleet who hadn't been personally touched by the Battle. A level of acceptance would be tolerated to maintain experience in Starfleet. In addition he only lets go after being pumped with meds. And whilst he has the rank of Captain it's Riker that is commanding the crew.

[@Twister6424]

@@carriew5106 Gotcha...admittedly, I haven't seen the episode all the way through.

[@Excalibur01]

@@Twister6424 Which is why The Sisko did it better when he met face to face with Picard at DS9

[@Twister6424]

@@Excalibur01 While I do enjoy the entertainment value of ST Picard, you're absolutely right. Sisko did it better at DS9.

[@charzanboo9940]

"Forget about all that weird shit on the Stargazer. The REAL Borg is still out there..." Finally, someone says it 😂

[@Bitchslapper316]

Yep

[@pelagicboreas]

I loved that. It's like he broke the fourth wall and was speaking directly to the audience.

[@kilo1012]

It will be interesting to see a future work pick up the idea of a borg civil war between these two factions. I think there's genuine potential for good writers to do something with this

[@mrredherring2900]

@@pelagicboreas I did too. So far, Season 3 already feels like an enormeous course correction altogether, so Shaws line almost felt like an acknowledgement that yeah, maybe that "nicer Borg" plot from S2 wasn't a great idea and it's best to just pretend it never happened. I for one would appreciate if they'd try to make the Borg scary again.

[@dabblerdeluxe775]

@@mrredherring2900 Thats going to be hard to do, I remember as a kid when the OG borg first showed up they genuinely terrified me as they were like zombies but somehow worse because of their cold precise inhuman will but they consistently made them less and less alien, first with Hu and later with the Borg Queen which I thought was a mistake and undermined the reason Locutus was created, then Voyager straight up making them seem feeble... I think the borg are still a menace but not a big bad

[@2Howl]

This is EPIC. In nearly 60 years of Trek storytelling, this monologue stands out as a landmark. this is the monologue Trek fans have been waiting for over thirty years. Thank you Todd Stashwick and thank you Picard, season 3 - you've finally delivered on your promise

[@eastleford20]

You totally nailed. He is the most powerful character since Khan (yeah, I said it).

[@Crunkboy415]

Shaw should get his own series. He dominates every scene he's in.

[@yuri172xy5]

I am there. Totally want to see it. If they can do a Pike show, they can do a Shaw show

[@jasoncooper1422]

Dominates every scene. 💯

[@Twister6424]

Not a bad idea, but also notice how he plays off three characters that we're already familiar with. There is a danger that he becomes just another Captain flying around in the universe if there are no characters to bounce his anger.

[@bloominninja]

​@@Twister6424 That's where seven becomes a great counter balance. They work so well to antagonize the other but are both fully capable of understanding the others perspective. Best of all they are equal victims to the Borg and starfleet and would have equal opportunity to vent their indirect anger (Inaction killed my son vs Rash action killed my friends). Almost writes itself!

[@SheldonAdama17]

3:05 “Forget all that weird s**t on the Stargazer” We already have 😂

[@sarcasticstartrek7719]

I know, I did love that little snipe at season 2 :D

[@terrenced7742]

"The only Borg so deadly, they gave him a g*ddammed name!" That gave me chills. The nuance with Shaw is done brilliantly. We understand why he hates Picard and why he treats Seven the way he does, but they stop short of excusing or forgiving his behavior because at the end of the day, his hatred and prejudice are still misplaced and expressed in a toxic way. Very good writing, and the acting is top-notch.

[@Moose6340]

Well said. His hatred and prejudice are explained, but not justified. That one scene is better by light-years than anything Discovery shat out in four seasons.

[@yuri172xy5]

One single scene blew the rest of new trek away

[@Bitchslapper316]

This season has had great writing with complex and conflicted characters. Shaw has been great, even under his PTSD, his hatred for Borg and arse hole exterior he is still a good man. When Picard told him Jack was his son he didn't try to turn him away, he wasn't going to tell him we can't save your son.

[@CaptainPikeachu]

@@Moose6340not true given Discovery has done plenty of scenes just as good as this and literally spawned a new show with SNW.

[@CaptainPikeachu]

@@yuri172xy5it’s a good scene but new Trek has plenty of good scenes.

[@GeorgeyTheApe]

They could have gone the easy route and had the obnoxious character we're all supposed to root for show up to deliver a speech about forgiveness and then punch Captain Shaw. But what they went with is absolute class.

[@davfree9732]

While PS3 can never be Star Trek, this new iteration of Trek Terry Matalas made... Had it been STD, season 1, would have swayed me in the direction Matalas was taking it. JJ Trek, but done right instead of preaching. It's scenes like this and what came before that shows the quality of a showrunner. I can only hope TM is given control of Trek in the future.

[@maundamartin59]

Admiral Picard is damn near 100 years old. A physical confrontation on his BEHALF WOULDN'T "MAKE IT SO!"

[@nikvolt8298]

I am starting to like This Capt. Shaw. He is flawed. Which makes him real.

[@randomdude8202]

@@nikvolt8298 A completely flawless character is indeed unrealistic, but to be fair people exaggerate this too. I see people adoring characters making horrible choices just because it "feels" real for them. Are people overimposing themselves on bad characters to feel good for their own terrible choices? Answer is probably yes.

[@brucesnow7125]

@@davfree9732 can never be Star Trek? Wtf kind of gatekeeping is this lol?

[@thoughtsofglought]

The background sounds during Liam's speech specially at 2:54 "I am Locutus of Borg" give me chills.

[@SpeedyEric1]

Yeah, brings be back to when I first watched The Best of Both Worlds Part 1 in the summer of 1994 when I just turned 8.

[@nashshaffer6235]

This is the best acting I’ve seen in a long time. Shaw made me see that sometimes “it hurts to be alive.”

[@matthewsutton5946]

At first i didnt like shaw, but now that we had this scene i understand why he is the way he is.

[@StevenJPiper]

@@matthewsutton5946 I still don't like him, he's a an ass, trauma or no. He didn't have to say that, I would have cheered if Picard stood up and punched him to the floor

[@matthewsutton5946]

@@StevenJPiper I have friends who fought in Iraq, including the Battle of Fallujah, so i can understand and empathize with his PTSD. I know how something like that can eat at someone and make them act just like Shaw here.

[@awilliams1701]

@@matthewsutton5946 I still don't like him, but now I want to. lol

[@awilliams1701]

yeah....there comes a point where the pain becomes so much that sometimes you wish you weren't here. My situation isn't even remotely comparable, but in the end I'm here and my daughter isn't. Maybe that's why this scene hit me so personally.

[@LordMondegrene]

Shaw is surrounded by his dead friends. They never leave him. They are his only friends.

[@rickglenn3080]

As someone who lives with survivor guilt and PTSD this scene was riveting. I felt goosebumps. When Captain Shaw pointed at Admiral Picard, his anger and despair were palpable. Its a masterclass in dialogue and character development.

[@Ares99999]

Picard also has survivor guilt and PTSD.

[@CaptainPlainJaneway]

​@@Ares99999 You don't know. They took everything I was. They used me to kill and to destroy. I couldn't stop them. I tried.. I tried so hard. I wasn't strong enough! I wasn't good enough! So my brother is human after all.

[@jesse8068]

@@CaptainPlainJaneway 😭😭

[@os2soliz]

@@CaptainPlainJaneway Also a great episode.

[@72stinger]

I love his acting choice of constantly drilling his finger into his temple, as if to say “I’ll never rid myself of this memory no matter how hard I try.” A monologue on par with Quint’s USS Indianapolis from Jaws-both about survival guilt.

[@redgriffen79]

Maybe that was the Basis for Shaw. Quint from Jaw's was Robert Shaw in real life. Quint was like Ahab after his "White Whale". Shaw on Picard shows how Ahab would react if your "White Whale" was right next to you but claiming to be someone else.

[@72stinger]

@@redgriffen79 good way to look at it!

[@Vadimaster]

I’ve watched this scene 5 times already and I’ve picked up on details in Shaw’s tone, his look, the way he holds his hand. The knock on the bar. The suppressed emotions. This is a masterclass performance. Don’t discount the posture and detailed reactions of Picard and Jack. Deep, deep scene.

[@nel1962]

What I really loved about the scene beyond the performances is the fact that they didn’t do a big flashback scene. Somehow the story resonates more as you watch Shaw give the whole experience In this powerful monologue.

[@ShawnLevasseur]

Good acting is one hell of a special effect.

[@roshallock5747]

Reminds me in a way of the scene in Jaws where Quinn is describing the shark attacks following the sinking of the Indianapolis. No obtrusive music, no flashbacks, just pure acting from the soul. Excellently done scene. Shaw is a character that you start not wanting to like, but can tell there's something more there. Now we have the "more", and damnit, I want even more.

[@charlesdavis1080]

@@roshallock5747 That's why the character is named Shaw, after Robert Shaw the actor who played Quinn in Jaws.

[@scotch3554]

The acting was phenomenal and so was the whole scene. The very subtle music…. The “flashback” sounds as he spoke, subtle yet so powerful.

[@knightboat82]

​@@roshallock5747 yeah Frakes said he loves Jaws and wanted to do his own version of it. Dude crushed it.

[@greydonsquare]

This episode, this scene felt like it was plucked right out of DS9. Can we PLEASE get a Capt Shaw show?

[@coreymoore2719]

I would totally watch that

[@texasabbott]

Put Captain Shaw in Section 31 and witness the mess he deals with every episode.

[@Twister6424]

@@texasabbott I dunno if Capt Shaw in Section 31 is a good idea. For all his faults, we see that Capt Shaw has a moral compass about him. Section 31 sort of ignores morals and ethics for a 'greater good'. Now if Section 31 were to be played off Captain Shaw similar to how Picard and Riker played off Captain Shaw, then we might be on to something.

[@Kaizer5E]

This aged well.

[@paulneligh5095]

​@Kai Le it's star trek, they could bring him back if they wanted. Dude himself said they could do it lol

[@Grovester77]

"Forget about all that weird shit on the Stargazer." Clearly that's the message they're trying to tell us here, as the theme of this season.

[@andrewnlarsen]

And I for one will be glad to. First season was fine but second season...

[@lesigh1749]

@@andrewnlarsen So you didn't like the Borg being rebooted to be nice, or then swapping their cube ships for a giant metal vagina shaped vessel?

[@Artisan1979]

So now it's obvious why Shaw had a problem with Picard beyond the facts that led them into this nebula. A vindictiveness towards the man he blames for the loss of 40 of his friends. Picard has never steered away from culpability in the Battle of Wolf 359. As soon as he said those words I was "oh, shit." Cool audio of Picard as Locutus. Like his brother told him years back, he had to learn to live with it, and it seems he has. Apologies would mean nothing, nor asking for forgiveness. He handles it as gracefully as he can.

[@dagan2000]

but he never really 'lived with it' until after First Contact when he finally got the chance to snap a Queen's neck

[@Cerbyo]

So they literally copy and pasted from Sisko? Wow, stunning and brave!

[@Doublebarreledsimian]

@@dagan2000 Actually he did learn to live with it. It's why he didn't tear Ben Sisko's head off for being a bit insubordinate in DS9's pilot episode. It's why he didn't use Hugh as a weapon in TNG episode: I Borg, or why he wasn't bent on revenge during the events of the episodes Decent parts 1 and 2. First Contact though resurrected the trauma he endured, as he watched crewmen being assimilated. It took Lily telling him, her perspective of his actions for him to regain control. Though I imagine snapping the Queen's neck was cathartic.

[@warblerab2955]

Um, what culpability does Picard have? He assimilated. He had no control over his actions as Locutus. The Battle of Wolf 359 is not Picard's fault. Additionally, do you really think the Borg couldn't easily destroy those Starships with the help of Locutus. Heck one could argue that if Picard had never gotten assimilated, they never would have been able to stop the borg in "Best of Both Worlds".

[@FS2K4Pilot]

@@jamestopoleski9255 What survivors?

[@MidnightAspec]

As contemptible as he comes off, I actually appreciate Capt Shaw for being real!! If the writers do their jobs right, he’ll be one of the biggest heroes of ST lore.

[@texasabbott]

There is so much potential for him in Star Trek. There is an unimaginable amount of messy fun we could have with this flawed, yet talented and temporarily redeemable character... particularly if he was assigned to Section 31. It would open up another crazy world full of plot twists, background stories and messy drama in the Star Trek universe. Moreover, it should be Captain Shaw that throws Boimler out the airlock.

[@Hatzi89]

I allways thought sisko unloading on picard for wolf 359 was harsh, but goddamn this is downright brutal Awesome scene

[@epickithri]

Captain Shaw also has PTSD and it also explains why he deadnames Seven.

[@oatlord]

This Shaw character is perhaps the most well written and appropriately acting Starfleet captain of all time. Whew they just really knocked it out of the park with him.

[@thejamesasher]

I wonder what Vance was like as a captain

[@Bitchslapper316]

@@thejamesasher Vance was one of the few gems from discovery. To bad he wasn't in this cast.

[@hastekulvaati9681]

No, he is absolutely rubbish. Far too obvious and as with all characters in the JJ and Kurtzverse he is too unprofessional in his conduct. Newsflash: trauma is not the only human character trait and bitterness is not the only human motivation. Also people can express trauma in subtler ways than teary explosive breakdowns. Basically Ben Sisko. He is furious with Picard but he maintains his composure when confronting him. It’s Pathetic.

[@oatlord]

I guess no one caught my dripping sarcasm

[@oatlord]

@Smythe oh sorry. Is this a fanboy channel? Am I required to only praise this trash?

[@feartheb33k33p3r]

"No... no. It's alright." there's nothing anyone can say to jean-luc about Wolf 359 that he hasn't said into the mirror. he's already made peace with what he did, though he's not going to forgive himself for it.

[@larnelldickerson-gl3fc]

Shaw is such a wonderful addition to the Star Trek universe. I sincerely hope they don't kill him off. He deserves to be the lead in a spinoff series!

[@Ares99999]

They killed him off. 😢

[@Durwood71]

@@Ares99999 Yeah, that gutted me. Possibly my all time favorite _Star Trek_ character, and they had to kill him.

[@Benepene]

No he is good as is, have his character the way he is not everything needs a series.

[@Robert_Douglass]

​​@@Durwood71omeone will have the genius idea of giving him a twin or clone brother and bringing him back.

[@MoA-Reload...]

Ooo, about that... Tbh though as amazing a character as Cpt Shaw is and as amazing Todd Stashwick was in the role, that character arc. It wouldn't have landed with the same punch if they hadn't killed him so yes, sad to see a good characters story end but what a story we had with him.

[@alexisesguerra2544]

What utterly gets to me is Shaw’s silence when Picard accepts his responsibility (3:28-3:38). He likely walked in, expecting Picard to deflect or deny some if not all responsibility for his part in Wolf 359. Instead, Shaw gets back a wan smile, as if Picard is saying, “I now understand why you have a problem with me, and I’m so sorry I put you through that.” It was literally the last Captain expected, and the actor portrayed that utter conflicted nature but brilliantly!!!

[@Ares99999]

He's not accepting a nonexistent 'responsibility'. And he didn't 'put Shaw through' anything. You should remember Locutus and Picard are NOT the same person at all. But yes, Shaw expected a fight, or at least an angry retort. Instead he gets hit with kindness and understanding. No, Shaw didn't see it coming.

[@larrylambert1220]

Captain Shaw deserves his own Trek TV series more than anyone.

[@xaenon]

at least a few books....

[@yuri172xy5]

Star Trek: Dipshit from Chicago

[@ShawnLevasseur]

Maybe that’s why he’s getting a showcase moment. Building him up for a series of his own.

[@gregs7562]

Absolutely agree

[@Twister6424]

Great acting and great character, but not sure his own series is in order. Is he mentioned in any of the books?

[@HammerJammer81]

As an Afghan Vet who suffers with PTSD, this Scene was acted brilliantly!

[@Dejo2106]

Same brother. Take care of yourself!

[@dickhardpicard]

Iraq vet...thanks for your service

[@beyerdr]

2 to Iraq and 1 to Afghanistan. "Why me". That part hit home with me. Theres no answer. You just...have to accept it at some point. I don't really know how but its the only way you stay alive.

[@melvinlee9263]

Thank you for your service, sir.

[@maxhalsted5381]

Thank you for your service and good luck.

[@Equinox0418]

This really shows how the Battle of Wolf 359 was such a turning point in the perspective of the Federation. Picard represents the Kirk era mentality of exploration and hope while Shaw represents the desperation and war-torn nature of Starfleet after the massacre. It makes total sense why Shaw has little respect for Picard because of both his PTSD as well as seeing that old mentality of hope as naive. Shaw is the most interesting character I’ve seen in this series so far.

[@Ares99999]

I don't think Shaw represents anything, really. Sisko represents post-Wolf 359. And Sisko realized Picard was not Locutus. Also, and I guess you would disagree, but Kirk, Sisko and Picard were better Captains than Shaw. They were better Starfleet Officers than Shaw. They were just several notches above him in general. So Shaw doesn't respect Picard? Big deal. Picard doesn't need his respect. His achievements (which completely eclipse Shaw's in every single way) speak for themselves.

[@canadious6933]

@@Ares99999 Yes but I think he was talking about the narrative symbolism in the current show. Not so much the characters achievements and in story mindset

[@bluejays25]

There's also the fact that Picard is technically the only Borg survivor. It must be hard to see Picard alive and well while knowing that over 11,000 people are dead due to his (unwilling) actions.

[@SlideIX]

@@Ares99999 I disagree, Sisko is someone who eventually moved past the pain and trauma of that event but Shaw, he is the prime example of someone who is still traumatised (maybe worse than Sisko had been) by the Wolf 359. Also Picard is the perfect target for his grief and rage because Picard was and was not Locutus. He may not of had any agency of his actions but it was his body that was being used to kill thousands of individuals, psychologically speaking it would be hard to differentiate between the two especially if they were suffering from PTSD.

[@BlazingOwnager]

A Federation that never got it's ass kicked by the borg would be a Federation that never could have won the Dominion War.

[@scottjarnagin348]

This is a perfect portrayal of PTSD and Survivor's Guilt. This is one of the best scenes in 60 years of Trek, and I'll die on that hill.

[@kthecarrot]

Shaw's face when Picard says "I understand" just breaks my heart.

[@martinm.1967]

Shaw is a weak pathetic man.

[@theevilascotcompany9255]

"I shouldn't have said that, but I needed to," kind of look.

[@carriew5106]

This is an excellent performance by Todd Stashwick. It's really hard to stand out amongst the OGs but I'd happily watch a series with Captain Shaw. So much depth to the character in a short period. Wow.

[@Crunkboy415]

You see how Shaw is mocking Picard by putting his hand on one half of his face to simulate a Borg prosthetic Locutus had on?

[@yuri172xy5]

Star Trek: Dipshit from Chicago

[@walmartpimp2]

I'd gladly pay Paramount Plus an extra $10 a month for a Shaw spinoff.

[@carriew5106]

@@Crunkboy415 yep. Lots of subtlety in the performance. Really great work by Todd, Frankes direction and Terry Matalas writing. Gives so much more context to why he seemed to not look directly at Seven in the first episode too. It's a constant reminder of something that is clearly very upsetting. Says a lot about Shaw that he's been quiet about this for so long too. Seven, Riker and the crew would probably be more empathetic with his ar*ehole behaviour if they knew what caused it.

[@bluejays25]

@@carriew5106 But wouldn't Riker know about this? I'm sure he would have looked at Shaw's service record beforehand.

[@robertfalk3767]

This is some god tier acting. Todd Stashwick(Shaw) put on one of the most emotional performances in Trek I've ever seen. Right up there with a couple from DS9(Garak with Bashir and Amin Maritsa with Kira), and just breathtaking. It all made sense. His disdain for Seven and Picard, his tough exterior, and his brashness, explained. And not with heavy handed exposition, but with an emotional story of PTSD and survivors guilt. Just.... Mwah, chefs kiss, so well done.

[@uhfanzonly]

Also explains why he is so hard on himself. Severe survivors guilt of trying to make sure that Lt. didnʻt make a mistake to save his life over someone else who could have contributed more to Starfleet. People are going to say this isnʻt Star Trek...Itʻs called Real Life.

[@richwilliams7787]

My hats off to Todd Stashwick, not only for this stunning scene, but for how he's built the character of Liam Shaw into a truly memorable character. Magnificent job conveying Shaw's gnawing survivors guilt so many years later.

[@J4CKC00P3R]

This scene was genuinely chilling. Todd Stashwick absolutely nailed it

[@ryanjackson1143]

Wolf 359 left wounds on everyone and this scene demonstrated it better than any other

[@davidmatthews8102]

"So your're human after all" Roberto Picard.

[@samsignorelli]

According to Todd Stashwick on "The Ready Room," Shaw was named for Robert Shaw, as this is basically his version of the "Quint and the Indianapolis" speech from "Jaws."

[@JohnS-il1dr]

That scene with him talking about the Indianapolis and the bomb was what saved the movie according to the director. Maybe this scene will do it for star trek.

[@heathen72]

I have just rewatched this scene five times in a row. The power of the writing and delivery is incredible.

[@martinm.1967]

Shaw is a weak pathetic man.

[@dasaxophonist]

I love his I survived wolf 359 shirt he wore later lol

[@davidblank420]

Shaw's hand trembling is so good in that moment.

[@SCOMBAG]

Damn, that guy needs a hug. That's some serious baggage he's been carrying around his whole life.

[@ohkaygoplay]

Ouch. This scene hit those of us hard who were there when the Locutus arc aired. The faint audio effects were all this scene needed to compliment Shaw's amazing performance. A flashback would have wrecked the bone-piercing severity this retelling required. What the director did was use Shaw's story in tandem with the deep soundtrack and the subtle audio to thrust us back into the battle of Wolf 359. That combination brought back the memories of those episodes playing through our minds at the speed of thought, complete with the emotion we felt when it was new. When we watched the Borg cube burn through ship after ship using Jean Luc's knowledge, when we saw the brutal transformation of the bravest captain in Starfleet into one of the enemy, heard him say, "I am Locutus of Borg. Resistance is futile," and thought the Federation and Earth were sincerely screwed. And we remember Jean Luc's journey recovering from it. The episode where he and his brother fight in the vineyard is still one of the strongest I've ever seen in relation to treating the aftermath of Jean Luc's PTSD having to face what he was forced to do. That two parter was the most nail-biting season finale I ever saw as a kid. It was so well created that it sticks with me today. The mention of that battle instantly gives me - and likely many others who saw it when it aired - a feeling of dread, 'oh shit,' and 'NO,' because we remember how it first affected us. THAT is the power the director used here. They used our history with that arc to punch us in the face in a way a flashback never could. They used our own memories against us. And god damn if it didn't work. I know I'm not the only one who had nightmares, and a real fear of the Borg as a terrifying threat you can't stop. And "Forgive me. At some point, 'Asshole' became a substitute for 'Charm.'" is just... *chef's kiss* I'd kill to be that adept of a writer.

[@martinm.1967]

Shaw is a weak pathetic man.

[@lazmanariffsulaiman7569]

I for one grew up with TNG, and thanks to the Borg, I developed an intense fear and paranoia of zombies. Because for me, I find the thought of turning into monsters and infecting your loved ones to be supremely horrible. Ditto to the reverse of having to put down your loved ones who have been turned into monsters. I never watched any zombie related media or games until I was an adult. But the moment I did, I recalled the Borg and the intense dread they gave me as a child. And that, isn't something easy to realize. And watching this scene only further intensifies that dread.

[@weresmurf5731]

"Forgive me, at some point, asshole became a substitute for charm". The level of depth Matalas gave Shaw is outstanding. The understanding of how gutwrenching PTSD can be for one, is amazing. My own father suffers from it, he's always carried his horrors from Vietnam with a high level of dignity in himself, but we've seen so many of his friends die over the last few decades, who've had this *exact* issue, where they adopt the 'asshole persona' to deal with it. He absolutely nailed it in one.

[@kengrubb]

I break down crying every time I watch this. It's brilliant. Simply brilliant. Captain Liam Shaw, YOU, are the greatest Captain in all of Star Fleet. Ever.

[@Ares99999]

Except for Pike, Kirk, Picard, and Sisko. Not so sure about Archer or Janeway.

[@kengrubb]

@@Ares99999 Blasphemer!

[@Ares99999]

@@kengrubb :)

[@greenlanternprime1]

My Fellow Trekkers, I think it goes without saying every generation of Star Trek produces a Gem that stays with us for decades to come. Being an 80s Kid there a few gems I remember from childhood but this is certainly a pivotal and moving gem for this generation.

[@nashshaffer6235]

This reminds of the TNG episode “the Wounded” when O’Brien told that Cardassian the story about how he killed that Cardassian soldier and said “I don’t hate you Cardassian but I do hate what I became because of you.” Shaw was a changed man after Wolf 359.

[@gxxlee123]

Damn that acting is top notch. He actually looks like he is going to cry when he is recalling his time during the battle of Wolf 359. I've seen vets get watery eyes from their stories. I wonder if he watched some of their stories to act correctly.

[@andrewnlarsen]

If they did then truly excellent job. And those vets...had a relative fighting chance while what Shaw and the others felt at Wolf 359...they almost had none.

[@withershin]

There's some beautiful writing hidden in this speech. Shaw sees himself as 10 of 10 to survive the Borg. He most definitely would not want to call his FO as 7 of 9.

[@Vipre-]

That gave me an actual chill, the idea that him saying Commander Seven would trigger a voice in his head saying Captain Ten.

[@withershin]

@@Vipre- that would get me going in the same context. Empathy is a tough nut.

[@NuclearFridge1]

Oh. I have a friend who has PTSD and I see the reactions, the anger, the guilt just as Shaw expresses them here. 😔

[@sethmay7187]

If Todd Stashwick doesn't receive an Emmy for his portrayal of Shaw, I'm going to be shocked. Such an amazing and heart-wrenching scene that finally gives us insight into why Shaw is the way he is and why he's been so antagonistic to Picard, Riker (to a lesser extent) and Seven. Bravo!!!!

[@72stinger]

I literally said after the monologue: Give Stashwick and Scarsgard Emmys right now. Stashwick for this monologue, and Scarsgard for his Andor monologue about sacrifice.

[@awilliams1701]

they don't give emmys for anything good ESPECIALLY if it's sci-fi. Usually if sci-fi gets such an award it's for a crappy episode or something like makeup. The more awards something wins usually the less interesting it is. So for that reason, I wouldn't expect him to win anything like an Emmy. Maybe a lesser award that doesn't really mean anything to most poeple (yet ironically is usually more often good and finding something amazing)

[@StormsandSaugeye]

Hot shit whoever wrote Shaws Dialogue knows a few survivors of true tragedies. On 3/11 2011 I was living in Japan for work in Oirase. I nearly was swept out to sea. It was a few second difference. And while I was able to drag myself to dry land, I was one of the lucky ones. And me surviving that has *ALWAYS* eaten at me....

[@Belorofontt]

This scene is savage. You really can feel every thing: the grief, the terror, the trauma, the anger. It is really shocking.

[@martinm.1967]

Shaw is a weak pathetic man.

[@eastleford20]

Dude, I know. I am obsessed with Todd, I feel like a damn stalker. It's rare that a character affects me, but I shed a tear when he died. And he is so un-Shaw like on his Instagram live feeds (by his own admission, he's a tremendous nerd). The writing for Shaw was great, it's criminal they teased us with him then took him away

[@Quetzalcoatl_Feathered_Serpent]

And all justified.

[@mattng4707]

Wow this was intense this is awesome trek .. Terry and his crew need to be in control of Trek from now on dam I felt Shaw pain and hats off to the actor who's playing him .

[@theyux1]

I always wondered why this actor never really got a big chance before. He was one of the most charismatic villians in burn notice. Really good at projecting anger and annoyance.

[@allen604]

Arguably the best scene in the entire show.

[@c.r.chandler5905]

There are so many parts of this epic scene. The rage in Shaw. The sincerity that changes to guilt in Picard. And even though Jack had just one line, you can see him fighting for his Father. This scene made up for entirety of Season 2.

[@DoremiFasolatido1979]

The entirety? I get it had some problems, but if you had an issue with Q's Farewell, then you've got way bigger problems that have nothing to do with the show.

[@Convoy00X]

​@@DoremiFasolatido1979 season two was a hot mess of ideas that did not fit together very well.

[@Bitchslapper316]

@@DoremiFasolatido1979 Season 2 was a big mess but Q and Picard are always great to watch. It's a shame that the acting from John and Patrick was wasted on such a bad script.

[@hastekulvaati9681]

It’s just more rubbish. All the Picard writers can do to show character depth is give them trauma. It’s boring. Batman, Superman, Picard, Rey… everyone has to have trauma. Because if you aren’t explosively dysfunctional due to PTSD you are a shallow character. And because the writers have zero faith in their own and the audiences ability to deal with new plots everything has to just endlessly loop back to 1990’s Best of Both Worlds. Universe of Bruce Wayne’s… it’s boring as fuck I dearly wish the writers could get over it. “The rage in Shaw…” Was cookie cutter.

[@hastekulvaati9681]

@@DoremiFasolatido1979 “If you had issue with Q’s farewell…” Q is great character. John DeLancie is an amazing, charming screen presence. Any emotional impact of his death scene I could have gotten from watching it as an edited clip. It had nothing to do with the woeful Picard show and everything to do with TNG.

[@mikemullen8174]

In addition to Shaw's speech I lone that Picard understands and accepts Shaw has a right to his anger and grief.

[@dennisthiel4022]

One of the Strongest Moments in Star Trek for me. Well done.

[@nashshaffer6235]

That is some of the best Star Trek acting I’ve seen in years

[@kristiandepue5374]

"Forgive me, at some point a**hole became a substitute for charm." Such a great line.

[@erica.5583]

The raw emotion of this scene is so thick you can cut it with a knife. I haven’t understood Shaw until this scene, nor did I like him much. Until now. It breaks my heart. Just the look in Shaw’s face and the dialogue, and then, Picard’s reaction was the kicker. Geez…. What more can he say.

[@nigelmilne3503]

Well, hopefully he'll end up in a pod in Daystrom and recover. Shaw was an amazing character, and everyone loved his cranky, sarky portrayal. Hopeful to see the return of Shaw, and to see what Seven gets up to on her ship. Season 3, with the old crew and the new additions was stunning. More Shaw please!

[@coulsonintahiti]

Shaw, you are the best character to be introduced in the last twenty years.

[@truethat15]

Tendi has to have a word with you, than reno after that,

[@thejamesasher]

Phillipa Georgiou?

[@coulsonintahiti]

​@@truethat15 didnt know this was even a thing. Binge night!

[@coulsonintahiti]

@@thejamesasher being a girlboss in Discovery does not make you a wellwritten character.

[@Jeffhew812]

So, fun fact, Todd Stashwick's character in Picard, Captain Shaw, was named for the late, great Robert Shaw, the actor who delivered the equally epic Indianapolis soliloquy in the movie Jaws. Stashwick left it all on the table for this one and definitely lived up to his character's namesake.

[@ReverseSkeleton]

Man this made my blood run cold. It's so good

[@hobanagerik]

A fascinating delivery, a combination of survivors guilt, and PTSD.

[@justinfever9787]

This scene alone is better than any Star Trek content in the last 20 years.

[@sarcasticstartrek7719]

I believe this episode itself may be the "best episode of Star Trek". I don't want to spoil anything for anyone, though.

[@RichardSanchez137]

I'd say 24 years since DS9 ended in 1999!

[@leons.kennedy6710]

It was a terrific episode.

[@theyux1]

@Dennis Coffman It was not really a rehash. It makes sense that more than one person would be affected by wolf 359. And candidly this far different than you killed my wife, this is survivers guilt. I can imagine many at 359 felt angered that Picard became a hero of the federation, and even more so upset when he complained about not helping the Romulans and "betrayed" the federation.

[@sarcasticstartrek7719]

@@StraightWhiteMaleNews please what?

[@Ductos]

So far my favourite scene from all of Star Trek: Picard. Because they did make a tremendous effort to subvert my expectations. It wasn't simple hate that drove Shaw...it was survivor's guilt, which is an insanely more effective motivation. Kudos. You got me there. Also helps that Todd Stashwick delivers a great performance. His entire character has been a standout. This scene is one of them.

[@rydekk-4644]

[SPOILERS] You can rest easy now, Captain.

[@Lizfan2]

I’m pissed that he got killed off.

[@AtenRa]

No wonder Shaw didn't want to call Seven of Nine by her preferred name; it would constantly remind him that he'd been Ten of Ten.

[@marcgardner9865]

Never underestimate the value of great dialogue!

[@benlevan5645]

This scene reminds me of Jaws when Quint is telling the story of how he was on the Indianapolis when it went down.

[@sarcasticstartrek7719]

and that scene, 50 years later, is still good. I think this scene will still be good, 50 years later.

[@Robert_Douglass]

I watched the corresponding Ready Room episode with Todd Stashwick being interviewed by Wil Wheaton, and yes, that is exactly the reference they used. Liam Shaw was named after the actor Robert Shaw, and Todd Stashwick indeed is a grease monkey from Chicago, though I wouldn't go so far as to call him a dipshit like Captain Shaw referred to himself. For Captain Shaw, the USS Constance was his USS Indianapolis.

[@mattboesch8907]

Thats what the creator was going for. They named him after Robert Shaw who played Quint in Jaws

[@JOESMITH-qs8ue]

Robert Shaw no relation?

[@TheWobSmith]

This is some of the best acting in recent memory. Todd Stashwick is brilliant and deserves an award for this scene alone.

[@PMMcIntyre]

As soon as he mentioned that stardate, 44002.3, I knew this scene was going to be intense and did they deliver.

[@jaygee6738]

Stashwick's acting here is insanely good. The eyes show the torment he went through and how he lives with it.

[@einat1622]

I really like Shaw. I know this is 'new trek' but for the first time this feels like my beloved 90's era. Wouldn't mind a new show with him as captain & Seven as no.1 (as long as they give her brains back... She's an audiance instrument here).

[@PrestigeLearning]

They actually make a great pair, theatrically and practically, just like Riker & Picard and Kirk & Spock, opposites who complement each other. Shaw actually seems to give her a lot of leeway, despite his prejudices.

[@einat1622]

@@PrestigeLearning Yes. I meant they put her on the back burner. I know this show is called 'Picard' but she is a major charecter from Voyager. She's 2nd in commend but 'sent to her room' (also, not to the brig). That scence where Shaw was explaining to her about the changellings was off: I get it, it's for the audience recap- but this would be something she would read about by now. More bothering- when he explain to her how to flush them out. This is something she should have come up on her own (explaining this to the audiance after shooting the fake La forge).

[@PrestigeLearning]

@@einat1622 Generally agree w/ you BUT (A) Shaw actually fought in the Dominion War, so Seven was drawing from his real experience and (B) the actual point of that exchange was to add depth to Shaw and his relationship w/ Seven. Basically, he's acknowledging that he's an asshole without formally apologizing

[@phil9947]

It's "nu Trek" but they've gone back to the "original formula" of an A-plot and a B-plot that slowly start to intersect. The only difference is that instead of compacting this into a single episode, they stretch it out over a season. One of the biggest problems with Season 2 of Picard is that they were trying to tell too many stories at once, and they failed utterly at telling a single good story of Q's exit.

[@TheADPOL]

When you realise that Wolf 359 was over thirty years ago, it breaks my heart. The fact that Shaw carried this with him for that long, to where he's grown comfortable with it. Sisko took his trauma and used to galvanise himself, to make himself into a better person for his son. Shaw did the opposite, allowed that trauma to consume him over three decades and became bitter and angry.

[@aslyn8943]

Survivor's Guilt and PTSD...he's clearly tried, and he's an Exploration Captain, the kind that's best with peaceful, calm situations, and looks out for his crew. What they're facing in S3 isn't anywhere within his experience - and, consider, he's got a crew facing death, and knowing there isn't anything he can do about it. No doubt it takes him right back to Wolf 359, where he's in exactly the same situation. The only difference being that he got to live while everyone else died, and that eats at him. It's really wonderful acting here, and it's SUCH good Star Trek, because it finally shows us the darkness that can eat away at you if you let it. Star Trek's about hope, but it often glossed over the real trauma suffered by members of Starfleet. A bad thing might happen, but by the next episode, everything's back to normal, as if nothing had. Shaw's proof that the actions of 30 years ago had consequences for everyone - and it's so beautifully done. It's also very reflective of the modern era: so many people feeling like this. It's a wonderful commentary.

[@TheADPOL]

@@aslyn8943 Agreed 100%. I don't think we're ever going to get the old TNG experience back, but S3 so far has been the closest we've gotten and I'm enjoying it so far. One of the highlights that I don't see many people talking about with this scene is Picard's expression hearing all this, he too is a victim of trauma and he looks close to breaking down. The scars from Wolf 359 still run deep in some people. Amazing acting.

[@Strangerthang87]

First off, Shaw is always right and I love it. Secondly, the editing is pitch perfect. The banging on the table. The muffled sound of when the ship is burning and you somehow get chosen to live while your friends get chosen to die. Muffled “you, and you, and you….”

[@jonbui4092]

One of the many voices saying the actor for Shaw killed it. But the actor for Jack is underappreciated, doing a great job showing the discomfort of digesting the horrible truth of the friendly old man he was just trading funnies with. And at the end he sticks up for his absent dad he had previously emotionally let go of. You can see he's fundamentally good at the core but only in glimpses behind the swaggering shell he's built. I'm also glad they didn't typecast him as angsty kid who's angry at the father he never knew. Beverly is his mom after all 🤷‍♂️

[@Ares99999]

Well, unlike Shaw, Jack was well aware that Shaw was going too far.

[@OptimusWombat]

And now we understand the origin of the antagonism we saw in Shaw when he first met Picard and Riker in episode 1.

[@EricAllenJett]

..and later outright confidence in Riker, hero of the Borg incident, when he gave him the command codes.

[@justinfever9787]

Also, Shaw is easily my favorite character of season 3. Vadic is good,but damn.

[@nashshaffer6235]

Yep

[@keitht24]

Sisko contained his rage better. He just gave Picard the death stare when they met in person.

[@nashshaffer6235]

@@keitht24 neither was Sisko hyped up on pain meds that made him loose with his tongue and emotions

[@Bitchslapper316]

Riker is killing it this season. It's the best acting I've ever seen him pull off.

[@yuri172xy5]

At least we got Vadic doing the Chang Chair Spin

[@Jay244]

This scene (and the entire sequence in the holodeck) is a MASTERCLASS in writing. The characters are consistent, realistic, and feel like people - the emotions are raw, they aren't sugar coated, and every single word spoken and line of dialogue said feels like something these characters would say in the situation, not just something they need to say to move the story onwards.

[@MoA-Reload...]

Todd Stashwick as Cpt Shaw was casting genius and the story arc they game him to play with was amazing. Hugely talented man and imo he absolutely nailed it in every scene he was in.

[@pattran3030]

Most people tend to forget that when the Borg assimilated Picard it also had a reverse effect as Picard had learned of their weaknesses and used it to defeat them. Although Picard's knowledge was used against the Federation resulting in major casualties at the battle of Wolf 359, but in the big picture this saved Earth from the millions of death that would have resulted in fighting the Borg.

[@DevilPogoStick]

Well yes...But it really stresses that arguably a good amount of survivors of Wolf 359 really are having a hard time trying to see this when all they could recall is the face that for a brief time represented the entity that murdered their families and friends. Wolf 359 may as well be Hell for them during that moment and scenes like this are saying it's easy for us to defend Picard because we saw everything Picard deals with ever since. But people like Shaw? They saw a man who took part in turning Wolf 359 into a mass graveyard who simply got a slap on the wrist for it. Try telling them that it was worth it in the long run.

[@Ares99999]

@@DevilPogoStick So what? PICARD saved BILLIONS of lives in his time. LOCUTUS killed these people. PICARD would NEVER have destroyed Starfleet ships. It's easy for us to defend Picard because he. is. not. at. fault. How is that so hard to get? For God's sake.

[@BullGator-kd6ge]

@@Ares99999 Easy to say because we the audience know Picard at a fairly intimate level from an outsider perspective. Put yourself in the shoes of a lowly officer seeing a friend turned foe and using his skills and insight to slaughter your friends and colleagues. You’re only a handful of survivors as most ships were lost with all hands aboard. Picard wasn’t at fault, but tell that to the dead and the traumatized survivors as a result of his assimilation.

[@CaptainPikeachu]

@@Ares99999Just because we know and defend Picard doesn’t mean survivors in-universe should, they’re all traumatized in their own ways, they’re all valid and legitimate in that trauma. No amount of Picard not being at fault is gonna change how those survivors feel and what they went through.

[@alexsolomon7991]

To be fair it wasn't actually Picard that saved the federation so much as Data managing to hook himself up to Picard and get through to him. It wasn't something he was able to do on his own. Locutus would have dispassionately continued to carry out his function until the entire federation was assimilated otherwise.

[@UnfrozenCavemanTrader]

I think this scene will go down as one of the all time standouts for TV Star Trek episodes. The fact that it's not from the main cast makes it stand out even more. Someone in Starfleet Operations must have really hated Shaw to have appointed Seven as his first officer, knowing his personal history.

[@AF-nc2fc]

There were 40 ships at Wolf 359. All of them were destroyed or damaged beyond repair except for USS Endeavour, commanded by Captain Assimov. 11,000 people were killed or assimilated because Vice Admiral JP Hanson refused to acknowledge that the Borg had assimilated Picard's knowledge of Starfleet's strategies and tactics.

[@andrewnlarsen]

At least one of the 39 ships that had been listed as destroyed was recovered and put back into service (the ship was present at the Federation task force that was present during the klingon civil war.

[@AF-nc2fc]

@@andrewnlarsen USS Ahwahnee; in the "We Have Engaged the Borg" fanfic, which inspired a Star Trek Online mission, it was mentioned that the ship's entire crew was killed, causing it to send out an automated distress signal.

[@drockjr]

This scene is so powerful. The actor who plays shaw. Bravo

[@MrNaxman]

This scene is one of the first times that the gravity of what happened at Wolf 359 is explored in a very raw, and emotionally relatable way. To hear Shaw ask "Why me?" why was "some dip shit from Chicago spared?" It really delves down into just how devastating and high the body count was on that day. I mean how can you even put eleven thousand dead into any logical or categorical perspective? TNG, DS9, tried. But this was the first time I got to hear real survivor guilt and how emotionally destructive such a event can change a person into what Shaw has become. His character is starting to actually make sense to me as I am starting to see what turned him into the broken man he portrays in this season.

[@cosmeticscameo8277]

actually ds9 did show a brief depiction of wolf 359 and from that brief depiction it was scary. ships getting one shotted left and right. the ships were on fire people were crushed under debris/metal

[@luvmenow33]

Is this the first time they gave a number of dead? Don't remember hearing 11,000 before

[@LordSiravant]

@@luvmenow33 Nope. The tally has long officially been 39 out of 40 ships destroyed, 11,000 dead or assimilated.

[@oldtwinsna8347]

@@luvmenow33 Nope. Admiral Satie said it in testimony herself, against Jean-Luc: Admiral Satie: It must have been awful for you, actually becoming one of them, being forced to use your vast knowledge of Starfleet operations to aid the Borg. Just how many of our ships were lost? Thirty nine? And a loss of life, I believe, measured at nearly eleven thousand. One wonders how you can sleep at night, having caused so much destruction.

[@Bitchslapper316]

@@oldtwinsna8347 Yep. Great episode. Even then Picard was dealing with his PTSD. He didn't try to defend himself to Satie, Sisko or Shaw.

[@drockjr]

I watch this scene so many times. Shaw just nails it with this scene. I wish trek had more sincere scenes like this. It felt real, heartbreaking, and yet, not corny or overdone. And it opened up more story to wolf359.

[@themobileprepper5730]

He literally spoke for every being in all the galaxy that were ever touched by borg. That man deserves a drink.

[@jack1701e]

This is what makes Trek Trek, the characters, the emotion, the stories, his attitude and outlook has been affected by something so harrowing it would've broken lesser people. No wonder he just wants to do a little exploring in federation space, he's seen the worst that the galaxy can throw at you and he wants none of it.

[@steeltimberwolf]

But Shaw is broken, he even admits it at the end. He didn't survive, he broke. He sadly shouldn't have been allowed to continue within Starfleet considering he can't get past his trauma.

[@wkcia]

@@steeltimberwolf Starfleet is famous for letting broken people continue in post. It's a sick joke by now.

[@bigman9490]

@@steeltimberwolf If they let Picard continue to command the Enterprise after Wolf 359, then they have to let people like Shaw continue in Starfleet.

[@tyranusfan]

@@steeltimberwolf Sisko was no less broken.

[@FomorViceroy]

@@steeltimberwolf People keep saying this over and over again. Picard's very presence brought it all back for him, clearly. We see him in command in the first two episodes and he's able to carry it out just fine. It's not like Shaw walks around his ship reciting this monologue to anyone who will listen. And if you want to really get technical, do you really think Picard should have been given his command back post-assimilation? This scene demonstrates that some don't seem to understand (or care) that Picard was not in control of his actions. For all Starfleet knew, he was still linked to the Borg in some way and could have been dangerous. Maybe giving him his command back so quickly was short-sighted. Sure, you can argue now that nothing ever came of that, but, at the time, no one would've known this.