The BEST Hiking boot? Salomon Quest 4D GTX Forces Review + FUTURE LLOD PROJECTS

  Рет қаралды 54,694

Last Line Of Defense

Last Line Of Defense

6 жыл бұрын

Salomon Quest 4D GTX Forces - bit.ly/2rR7QjE
I get asked a lot, "what hiking boot do you recommend" - and to that the answer is almost always the Salomon Quest 4D. Whether you need GTX or you want the Forces edition is up in the air, but overall the Quest 4D is a really solid boot that fits the bill for many mountain adventurers and those serving the country alike.
Other things in the video:
Gshock I'm wearing - amzn.to/2IJi6oq
Use code "LLOD" to save 25% on the following
Vertx EDC Ready Bag - vertx.com/edc-ready-pack
Vertx Integrity Shell - vertx.com/integrity-shell
Giveaway / Patreon - / llod
Warrior Poet - bit.ly/2gGScAA
Fieldcraft Survival - fieldcraftsurvival.us/
QUICK DISCLAIMER No sites that sell guns were mentioned in the video or will be linked below, no prohibited items or accessories were displayed in the video or are linked below, all magazines (clips) are standard capacity, the suppressor (silencer) was purchased, taxes paid, ATF approved and used in a legal fashion. No modifications were made to the gun to increase rate of fire or anything silly like that. All KZbins guidelines have been followed and no policies broken.
disclaimer: some of the links here are affiliate links. purchasing gear through them helps support the channel (via small commission from the website) at absolutely no extra cost to you (often actually cheaper).
FILMING GEAR:
Mini cellphone tripod - amzn.to/2FbL3os
Joby GorillaPod - amzn.to/2swvvVI
Vlogging tripod/grip - amzn.to/2ihyazr
Lumix G7 - amzn.to/2saaWkP
Lumix G9 - amzn.to/2tzzntE
Cheap lens - amzn.to/2DdQeC3
Expensive lens - amzn.to/2tttluT
Wireless lapel mic - amzn.to/2uubSRw
Cheap Mic - amzn.to/2G8Q0iw
---
VERTX (LLOD for 25% off) - vertx.com/
Premier Armor (LLOD for 10% off) - bit.ly/2o96GPm
OpticsPlanet (LLOD5 for 5% off)
Tactical Distributors - bit.ly/2tGFqbc
Snake Eater Tactical - bit.ly/2wFd2J9
Black Rifle Garb Apparel - bit.ly/2gTDKr0
DiamondBack Truck Covers - bit.ly/2IrQUHA
Chief Ammo - www.chiefammo.com/
FieldCraft Survival - fieldcraftsurvival.us/
LLOD Patches & Stickers - bit.ly/2EF0AAw
LLOD Instagram - / lastlineofdefense
LLOD Facebook - / lastlod
LLOD B Channel - bit.ly/2uuI5tQ
PATREON - / llod

Пікірлер: 128
@nathandaley8026
@nathandaley8026 6 жыл бұрын
Would love to see a video dedicated to your safe. How you keep it organized and storage ideas. Love the channel keep up the good work!
@hurt1704
@hurt1704 6 жыл бұрын
My vote is still with Garand Thumb! Love that you and Lovell are getting together. I really want to fly out from Missouri for that.
@thinkaboutit3942
@thinkaboutit3942 4 жыл бұрын
3 years and going strong. From hiking to everyday,these are awesome
@jshmickelshmack4474
@jshmickelshmack4474 6 жыл бұрын
Looking forward to the upcoming Vids ! Good luck finding a good set up for a range, I’m sure someone will come through and you will be cranking out more great content in the shooting arena 👍🏻
@er3480
@er3480 6 жыл бұрын
I just discovered your channel, and really appreciate the detail and breakdowns. I swear by the GTX Forces, and have worn them for years. Both in combat zones and at home hiking about. Just to note: The GTX forces retain the older Quest 4D fit/model (the new Quest 4D GTX is very different, and is extremely uncomfortable). So while the new commercial Quest 4D GTX look similar, they no longer retain the same fit and now have a very narrow toe box.
@Quilldoe
@Quilldoe 6 жыл бұрын
I just moved from PA to Colorado and I am looking for a outdoor range to go to. I moved here for the Outdoors and all that this channel is about. You and Gideon’s Tactical inspired me to move to this region as well as my wife who wanted to move here for several years.
@aarongreer7401
@aarongreer7401 6 жыл бұрын
Love Lovell, look forward to seeing you train with him. 👍🏼
@nanmsmac15
@nanmsmac15 6 жыл бұрын
93K subs and counting! 100K not far away! Congrats!
@methreview5074
@methreview5074 6 жыл бұрын
I didn't even realise you were under 100K... Your videos and personality are so professional! I'll say it, you're better at this KZbin thing than most people with over 100k
@raphaelbeinhauer9242
@raphaelbeinhauer9242 6 жыл бұрын
METH Review Well he is a web developer...
@SJM6791
@SJM6791 6 жыл бұрын
I’m in law enforcement and I’ve worn the same pair of Salomon 4D GTX boots everyday for the past 2-1/2 years. They’re still holding up and are extremely comfortable!! I recently bought a new pair of 4D GTX, but I’m going to wear my old pair until they literally fall apart. Pros: -Extremely comfortable right out of box. -Durability is amazing. -Exceptional ankle support while still being flexible. -The Waterproofing is legit!! Negatives: -$249.99 is tough on my budget. -Hot in the Summer. -The color (black) faded into an OD green/black. I actually like this look, but I’m not sure Salomon intended for it to happen. Overall, this is the best boot I’ve ever owned and I highly recommend it.
@yehoshuawildman
@yehoshuawildman 6 жыл бұрын
Can't wait for the edc ready backpack video!!
@MrPoolen
@MrPoolen 6 жыл бұрын
I wear the Salomon forces 4d in black at work. Love them. Can run much faster than the Danner Acadias I always wore prior.
@orion45acp
@orion45acp 6 жыл бұрын
Super excited about a collaboration with WPS. Big fan
@LegendOfBread
@LegendOfBread 4 жыл бұрын
Have 2 pairs of the 4ds. They're amazing....I've hiked near 90 degree hills with them, and they excel to say the least, but for your somewhat urban ops. X ultra mids are the move in my opinion.
@rickyjohnson9944
@rickyjohnson9944 6 жыл бұрын
Thanks for the video dude! You should review the Tactical Distributers Logan pants.
@TheJetlife94
@TheJetlife94 6 жыл бұрын
in woodlank park, co highway 67 theres a pretty nice range/public land that stretches out pretty far, some parts are flat and some parts are "hilly" and theres hills that are used as berms. I think its definitely worth checking out. about an hour, maybe hour and a half from denver. I go there all the time.
@dukhunter101
@dukhunter101 6 жыл бұрын
Nice review and update. Wondering about socks, you did mention wool. Brand and information about what you recommend would be great. Thanks
@BF3ZOMBIE
@BF3ZOMBIE 6 жыл бұрын
Good vid. I’ve worn out Keen Targhee IIs, Timberland Earthwalkers, Doc Martin Pier boot and Lems Boulder boot. Would buy any pair again.
@redsnake93
@redsnake93 6 жыл бұрын
These are by far my favorite hiking boots
@flightsta12
@flightsta12 6 жыл бұрын
I like all your gears, gadgets and stuffs. Keep it up! ☺
@game7win596
@game7win596 6 жыл бұрын
Its going to be cool to see a video with WPS! Hopefully demo ranch does collaboration with you and talon sooner or later too! almost to 100k subs bro!
@noctilucent7396
@noctilucent7396 3 жыл бұрын
Just got a pair. Digging it first impressions
@Nick-qj4su
@Nick-qj4su 6 жыл бұрын
Just bought these on the site you linked per your recommendation
@RedDirtShooter
@RedDirtShooter 6 жыл бұрын
ASOLO is another great boot as an alternative. Soloman is great though for sure. Just got back from out of country hiking on glaciers and buddy had Solomon and I had the ASOLO. Both held up great even with crampons.
@bobkhan1809
@bobkhan1809 6 жыл бұрын
Asolo Shiraz GV. 4 years of 8-14 hr/day, 4 season use and still going strong. Custom orthotic inserts are worth the cheddar as well.
@icebmwpower
@icebmwpower 6 жыл бұрын
Great vid as usual Mike! Just one thing, you didn’t pay attention @ LOWA Tactical Z-6S (Desert) GTX Boots (not the old Lowa Zephyr version). They looks great. They feels great. And I think you should try them as well. It will be interesting to hear your opinion LOWA Z-6S GTX vs SALOMON Quest 4D GTX Forces.
@petecandelaria1925
@petecandelaria1925 6 жыл бұрын
I am doing a remodel in Fairplay and came to Morrison for a wedding after driving up 285 I’m wanting to look at buying some land more towards Fairplay. It’s a ways off but if it works out I’ll be shooting on it.
@raphaelbeinhauer9242
@raphaelbeinhauer9242 6 жыл бұрын
Really want to see the Polymer 80 build, you just convinced me to join full30
@derekcomingo2197
@derekcomingo2197 6 жыл бұрын
I go through different phases too. I'd like a bike and pickup for work and overlanding camping
@mikedbiery
@mikedbiery 6 жыл бұрын
How do you carry when you hike? Holster? Position? I hike a lot too.
@cultured_recruit_legionary
@cultured_recruit_legionary 6 жыл бұрын
The non gtx version works great in the Arizona desert heat. Been using the boots at the range and I can sprint well in them when running drills.
@xjo2hx2442x
@xjo2hx2442x 5 жыл бұрын
Donald Shrump I know they are not the gtx model, but would you recommend wearing them in Florida? It is very hot most of the days and I want to get them for police duty; however, it does rain a lot in Florida so I’m kinda torn between both models. Would you say they are somewhat waterproof if you are not obviously standing in a puddle?
@cameronbentley8259
@cameronbentley8259 3 жыл бұрын
I was looking to get some for the heat here in Arizona I will definitely be getting the non gtx
@Geotubest
@Geotubest 5 жыл бұрын
Good review. I have the Quest 4Ds and I like them but I find the soul isn't as thick as I'd like. I seem to feel the ground too much particularly on rocky terrain.
@scappy2121
@scappy2121 6 жыл бұрын
These warm enough to wear Hunting up in the mountains in the fall?
@michaelmartin6972
@michaelmartin6972 6 жыл бұрын
Great video! What kind of bow is that sitting behind you?
@ShinobiHOG
@ShinobiHOG 6 жыл бұрын
I actually bought a pair of the soloman quest s gtx a couple months ago. I got the forces because they match casual clothing better.....
@MrPvtskittles
@MrPvtskittles 6 жыл бұрын
I love my Keen shoes and boots they have been the most durable and comfortable Footwear I have used
@gearnut2366
@gearnut2366 4 жыл бұрын
Hey mike is this pair you have here the gtx or non gtx model? If it’s the non gtx model, how have they held up to water/winter hiking? I’m in LE and would love to use this boot not only for duty use but recreational use. Thank you!
@Honest-Review
@Honest-Review 5 жыл бұрын
Any comments on the breathability of the NON GTX version? does it dry well?
@bobjohnson6131
@bobjohnson6131 5 жыл бұрын
Do you think I would look silly walking around Japan wearing Salomon GTX 4d 3shoes? It’s my first hiking boot I’ve purchased for hiking around Japan. I’m just unsure if it be adequate in the city....will do quite a lot of walking
@2ndamendmentprotectsallame34
@2ndamendmentprotectsallame34 6 жыл бұрын
I follow Lovell, he's great. Love his channel as well. Wish I was closer to colorado.
@2ndamendmentprotectsallame34
@2ndamendmentprotectsallame34 6 жыл бұрын
Congrats on full30 as well!
@jacobarrowood3587
@jacobarrowood3587 6 жыл бұрын
Any updates on the LLOD hats?
@robertjacobsen3742
@robertjacobsen3742 6 жыл бұрын
Nice, a shout out to Warrior Poet! I wish he would put on a class in my area.
@BrockNessMonster1991
@BrockNessMonster1991 6 жыл бұрын
Robert Jacobsen - you may have to travel a bit :)
@eliasvirolainen5981
@eliasvirolainen5981 5 жыл бұрын
Salomon quest 4d gtx 3, forces of forces 2 for hiking and what are the differences?
@RJ.Ev.G
@RJ.Ev.G 4 жыл бұрын
What kind of gaiters do you recommend for snow?
@Gizapowerplant
@Gizapowerplant 6 жыл бұрын
Great video!
@swimmer6890
@swimmer6890 6 жыл бұрын
What color are the quest 4d you were showing?
@screameverything
@screameverything 6 жыл бұрын
Compound bow video or review coming soon or just for fun?
@sldsnk3
@sldsnk3 6 жыл бұрын
Mike, what gaiters do you pair with the 4Ds.
@Dbl3dge
@Dbl3dge 6 жыл бұрын
I've got some spots in Southern Illinois where you could come shoot if you're ever in the area.... I'm not sure why the heck you would be in Southern Illinois... But hey, the offer stands. :)
@adventureoutline
@adventureoutline 6 жыл бұрын
Looking forward to the overlanding videos
@scottsaylors1996
@scottsaylors1996 6 жыл бұрын
You and Tactical toolbox would be a awesome combo
@AgoristAlex
@AgoristAlex Жыл бұрын
Any badass ranges in Denver now? Nothin bette than a good outdoor range and a nice city range to hit with no over the top rules.
@ilyaroslov6502
@ilyaroslov6502 5 жыл бұрын
Are you going to try out the under armour Cameron Hanes boot?
@al-farabiyeasin1666
@al-farabiyeasin1666 6 жыл бұрын
Anyone knows who makes the hat his wearing?
@fletchschubert5044
@fletchschubert5044 6 жыл бұрын
Good job Mike. Salomon’s for the win.
@apa7611
@apa7611 5 жыл бұрын
I think the keens are the Durands one?
@scottsaylors1996
@scottsaylors1996 6 жыл бұрын
Love lowas too
@readyme
@readyme 6 жыл бұрын
I have the Salomons, but I’ll give the Lowa Renegade a try next time.
@JustinandFifatheVizsla
@JustinandFifatheVizsla 6 жыл бұрын
Rock climbing approach shoes have really good traction on slick rock. Evolv makes some good ones. Not boots, though.
@christianseely9934
@christianseely9934 6 жыл бұрын
Polymer 80 build?
@123mistax
@123mistax 6 жыл бұрын
My scarpa fuegos are great mountaineering boots
@Sweanynathan
@Sweanynathan 6 жыл бұрын
Need a review on your tactical office chair
@AVH8TOR
@AVH8TOR 4 жыл бұрын
I’ve reached a plateau with my shooting abilities. Do the camo and forces combined help you shoot faster?
@tacomaster46
@tacomaster46 4 жыл бұрын
Bradley Bobish only if you do the tactical look left and right real quick after every pause.
@memphisreines4058
@memphisreines4058 5 жыл бұрын
Solomon really snug and supportive
@JoeyBianco
@JoeyBianco 6 жыл бұрын
Hey mike. Check out Colorado clays in Brighton.
@daynuhbraps
@daynuhbraps 6 жыл бұрын
You've already converted me to Glock.. however I won't wear anything but asolo for hiking boots.
@nikpridy9589
@nikpridy9589 6 жыл бұрын
Mike, have you tried Asolo's?? I bet if you were to try the tps 520 or the fugitives you would change your mind. Sorry in advance if you mention that brand in the video. Not in a place I could watch it all the way through.
@MrPoolen
@MrPoolen 6 жыл бұрын
Nik Pridy asolos fugitives are awesome but much more stiff. More of a backpacker than hiker.
@tylerbrown8923
@tylerbrown8923 5 жыл бұрын
Do you think these would fair well as a winter/snow boot?
@LastLineOfDefense
@LastLineOfDefense 5 жыл бұрын
They do for me
@oo-oe4km
@oo-oe4km 4 жыл бұрын
what shirt is that?
@kitewaldo
@kitewaldo 4 жыл бұрын
I'm getting these tomorrow, but would you recommend GTX or no GTX? as GTX is Forces, but no GTX is Forces 2 and 40usd more.
@LastLineOfDefense
@LastLineOfDefense 4 жыл бұрын
GTX = waterproof. So if you need waterproof, then GTX.
@kitewaldo
@kitewaldo 4 жыл бұрын
Last Line Of Defense not really, would no gore tex keep some water out? And breath better?
@kurt53641
@kurt53641 6 жыл бұрын
AREGULARGUY TRAINING. Great man who runs a great class. Have him come out here!
@user-eo4ps7re5e
@user-eo4ps7re5e 6 жыл бұрын
What about tactical timbs my guy
@jamesmerone
@jamesmerone 5 жыл бұрын
Would you recommend these boots for special warfare/operations?
@WitchyWagonReal
@WitchyWagonReal 6 жыл бұрын
Endorsement/testimonial: I have this boot. "Waterproof..." um, water resistant is more true; mine have soaked through many times. However, they are supremely durable. This durable: I have worn mine *literally everyday* for about four years. No shoes, just these. They are beat up, and the tread is almost flat-- but they are still 100% intact (i.e., no tears, no seams or stitches coming apart, no fabric disintegration...). I do have pressure points, but that is more my feet... flat and swelling. They've trounced over 20+ states through 50,000 miles of motorcycle touring and camping, with ample hiking, assloads of shooting, daily wear and adventures, it is the only boot I wear *all the time.* It cost me about $225 and they have been worth every single penny. It might well be the best boot/shoe I've ever had. Certainly it is ridiculously durable. Bought a womens pair for my kid, too; she still uses them, four year later, albeit much less hard use.
@WitchyWagonReal
@WitchyWagonReal 6 жыл бұрын
PS-- These boots are absurdly, insanely, unbelievably durable. I simply do not understand how they have lasted so long. I have had at least a dozen pairs of similar boots which have DISINTEGRATED within a year to 18 months of hard use. This boot is nuts. 😳
@Anon62796
@Anon62796 5 жыл бұрын
warrior poet sub here. you and john are pretty like minded
@codelotus1
@codelotus1 6 жыл бұрын
Concerning training in the Denver area, have you seen Able Shephard (ableshepherd.com/) in Centennial (South of Denver)? Definitely some of the best training I have received thus far. The frequency of classes really helps reinforce what you are learning.
@johnmorgan1004
@johnmorgan1004 4 жыл бұрын
Yea.. Cool video guy love ure stuff ure so down to earth... U should hook up wiv them guys at feild craft u will learn so much they no alot about alot love to c future vids like wiv John lovel sensible guys u can learn from.. I'm not being condescending I'm an lod guy and can c quality in u.. God bless... Out .
@LastLineOfDefense
@LastLineOfDefense 4 жыл бұрын
I'm friends with and have done videos with both of them actually. 🍻
@Kylesjeep
@Kylesjeep 6 жыл бұрын
Glad everything is going well Mike! I think you’ll have a blast and learn a lot from John Lovell I watch him a lot as well as James Yeager I love yeagers’ forwardness and grit. I would be cool to do a collaboration with Yeager as well I’ll leave him some comments in his videos in the future and hope for a response. They’re is another guy I watch Calle nutnfancy he’s from Utah and he’s really awesome as well I’ll do the same as well on his videos too. Anyways good to see ya and can’t wait to see what videos you got coming next
@ryantanaka1433
@ryantanaka1433 6 жыл бұрын
Let us know the dates with John!
@MrMoucholui
@MrMoucholui 6 жыл бұрын
Run hot in the summer. Would use the non gtx in summer and gtx in the winter.
@LastLineOfDefense
@LastLineOfDefense 6 жыл бұрын
Definitely. As much as people try to say GTX/goretex is just as breathable - it definitely isn't.
@beaupoopoo7542
@beaupoopoo7542 6 жыл бұрын
Last Line Of Defense speak the fuckin truth again lmao
@MrPoolen
@MrPoolen 6 жыл бұрын
The non gtx version is honestly pretty much just as hot. I have both. Feet get sweaty and stanky in both.
@briandowney6478
@briandowney6478 6 жыл бұрын
Where you get the hat
@paintballjunkie65
@paintballjunkie65 6 жыл бұрын
Brian Downey im pretty sure he was talking about selling them.
@Libertarian_Neighbor
@Libertarian_Neighbor 6 жыл бұрын
Great review. I love my Quest 4D. I chose them because they fit my foot the best, which is how I choose all of my footwear. I see a lot of younger people just buy what’s cool (new Lebron’s or SEAL team 6 boots) and then complain about foot pain. Go to REI and try on a bunch of different boots. You’ll thank me when you’re 5 miles in to a 10 mile hike. My one major criticism of the Quest 4D is that the sole does not grip well on wet rocks. This is a big problem that I couldn’t test until I tried them in the field. My next boots might be different as a result.
@LastLineOfDefense
@LastLineOfDefense 6 жыл бұрын
Have you found a boot that has superior wet rock traction? All I've tried seem to be equally slippery.
@Libertarian_Neighbor
@Libertarian_Neighbor 6 жыл бұрын
Last Line Of Defense You’ve probably tested more boots than me. I had some old timberlands that weren’t really high end, but gripped way better. I wore them until they fell apart. Not nearly enough support for carrying weight though. That being my main reference point, I was disappointed with the wet traction of the 4D. I also have had lots of trail running shoes that I used to use for day hikes that gripped great. The older I get, the more I appreciate comfort and support. I love the fit of the Salomon’s, which is still the most important thing to me. Maybe next time I go into REI I’ll take a jug of water with me to poor on their hiking/climbing rock. Lol
@Bananahammock88
@Bananahammock88 6 жыл бұрын
Last Line Of Defense if you have a rei near you, they have a couple rocks indoor next to the shoes that you can climb to feel them out. REI IS AMAZING
@stam3334
@stam3334 6 жыл бұрын
Try the concealed carry podcast and concealedcarry.com they are in Colorado
@MrTanner96
@MrTanner96 6 жыл бұрын
Woah a watch!!?? What watch is mike wearing now?
@raphaelbeinhauer9242
@raphaelbeinhauer9242 6 жыл бұрын
Tanner Sowell check the description box.
@BrockNessMonster1991
@BrockNessMonster1991 6 жыл бұрын
Sooo.. I’m gonna need the link for that Gucci hat 🧢
@project-LEXUS-BMW
@project-LEXUS-BMW 4 жыл бұрын
This is not GTX model ,Salomon GTX stands for gortex for waterproofing , you missing a gortex label on the outside upper corner and some other small differences that comes with GTX.... BTW LOVE YOUR CHANEL ,keep up the good work
@LastLineOfDefense
@LastLineOfDefense 4 жыл бұрын
These are the Forces, which means lotta that exterior branding and design is removed. They are in fact GTX though.
@giggs1148
@giggs1148 4 жыл бұрын
Yes I have a same 4d GTX forces same color with a Gore-Tex label (small metal badge upper corner , just saying would hate if you paid for goretex and received non-Gore-Tex, just looking up for you brother
@danielhgammon
@danielhgammon 6 жыл бұрын
Boom
@johnhayden4931
@johnhayden4931 6 жыл бұрын
Luck get to train with John!!!
@easygordonnn
@easygordonnn 6 жыл бұрын
Damnit! 4th already???
@DustyDizzle
@DustyDizzle 6 жыл бұрын
Hey! I live in Moffat Colorado and am the vice president of a local gun range. I think that our range may be good for a class if need be! Please contact me if you are still looking for a range!!!
@paintballjunkie65
@paintballjunkie65 6 жыл бұрын
Dragon Mans might do it in Colorado Springs.
@memphisreines4058
@memphisreines4058 5 жыл бұрын
As much as liked the idea of U.S made gear keen fail my simple waterproof test Solomon Quest 4d 3 past same test.
@CircadianCitizen5
@CircadianCitizen5 4 жыл бұрын
Why am I always seeing your videos and watching them, but I'm not subbed hmmmm
@futurecallup637
@futurecallup637 6 жыл бұрын
Noice!
@chrischiba9336
@chrischiba9336 5 жыл бұрын
To bad they dont come in Wide sizes.
@noelr2502
@noelr2502 5 жыл бұрын
But how does it perform on the incline? JK
@connorwillis5189
@connorwillis5189 6 жыл бұрын
Can you make llod hats??
@LastLineOfDefense
@LastLineOfDefense 6 жыл бұрын
Already have, my man - llod.us/swag I have some more on the way soon as well, since most of those are sold out.
@ktm250xcw2
@ktm250xcw2 6 жыл бұрын
Try SALEWA Alp Trainer
@LastLineOfDefense
@LastLineOfDefense 6 жыл бұрын
I've tried a few Salewas and they just kinda fit funny and have felt abnormally stiff...
@memphisreines4058
@memphisreines4058 5 жыл бұрын
Keen leak
@TroutWest
@TroutWest 6 жыл бұрын
If i'm going to wear a boot.. I wear Merrells or Montrails. Everyone else is just too sweaty and hot for no reason
@memphisreines4058
@memphisreines4058 5 жыл бұрын
Keen dry is no good.
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