The BEST Response to Why Bad Things Happen to Good People (Dr. Clay Jones)

Why do bad things happen to good people? Why is there a problem of evil? In this short clip, Dr. Clay Jones answers this question in a very interesting way. Watch and you'll know what I mean!
Link to full interview: • Answering the Problems...
Affiliate link to Dr. Jones' book on evil: amzn.to/2xGx9YR
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#Evil #Apologetics #Christianity

[@michellemooresings]

absolutely fascinating and I will be looking for his book!

[@BeenThinking]

"you don't do it when you consider the consequences, but you do it when you think you find a work around". Paraphrasing, but I thought this was really good. Well done!

[@BeenThinking]

@BananaJunior11 Good question, but perhaps I’m misreading it because I don’t know of anyone who would say no to this. If you murdered my family and I had nothing else to live for except revenge, then yes, I would try to kill you. And I suspect you would do the same to me. This is even with the consequence of jail, so just imagine if there was no consequence at all. Maybe I am misunderstanding the question?

[@BeenThinking]

@BananaJunior11 hmmm... that's a tough question, because I wouldn't be provoked to such an extent as murder unless you did something horrendous to me. So I would say that no, I wouldn't murder you just because you smelled, or something like that.

[@BeenThinking]

@BananaJunior11 I consider this to be futile, because I wouldn't just hate you for no reason. So to say I have no reason and I just hate you, might be a contradiction. But let's roll with it. If I did hate you, and had no reason not to rid you of my life, then yes, I would do so. If that comes in the form of killing, then so be it. I would imagine anyone would say the same.

[@nikao7751]

This is so helpful as is much of what you’re doing here is. Much thanks to our Heavenly Father for you and thank you also for being faithful in days like these

[@CitrusElmo]

Hey man could I use this video on my channel to help bring this awareness?

[@JCPAnica]

Mark 10:18: "No one is good, except God alone". That is why each day, every single human being needs the Holy Spirit to be Christ-like. God is good ❤

[@nicktheflanders]

Interesting! I think one can be totally on board with the idea that humans are capable of incredible evil. I think Clay Jones makes great points to show how that is true. The one point that he seems to sneak in without much argument is at @4:11 - when he asserts that the only reason people do good is out of self interest. He doesn't seem to make any attempt to justify this assertion, rather he just appeals to it being obvious. Unfortunately, it is NOT at all obvious to me, and I doubt it's obvious to many people. Why should I believe that the only reason people do good is out of self interest?

[@jjccarpentry]

I am a non theist, but I'm entertaining the idea of descriptive ethical egoism, the idea that everyone is motivated to action by their own interests and desires, which originate from their psychological disposition. This is largely in part because I don't understand what it would mean to do something that you ultimately didnt want to do. If reasons motivate action, and reasons are dependent upon your psychological state, it seems very straightforward that every action you do is one that you ultimately wanted to do.

[@jjccarpentry]

@BananaJunior11 I re listened to Jones and I don't think he used the term selfishness, simply self interest. It seems to me that every action is motivated by self interest, including the ones you may classify as selfish interests. If this is the case I would want to know what criteria Jones uses to the distinguish a good self interest versus a bad self interest.

[@MrJimMajor]

Is there any act done that does not have some element of self-interest? I think even sacrificing your life by giving up a lifejacket may have some fiber of self-interest. If nothing else, there is the vague thought of feelings of guilt if it is not done. An exception might be something done in panic. The soldier who throws himself on a grenade to save his friends.

[@nicktheflanders]

@Shannon85 that just seems like a rather idiosyncratic definition of “doing things in self interest” to say that giving up a lifejacket fits the description. It certainly doesn’t fit my, (nor most folks) understanding of the phrase.

[@Jamie-Russell-CME]

This is critical, and how to u derstand what a sinner in need of repentance is all about. And deeply needed. Its so easy to have it fugured out and just be displaying a front, disguised behind Christian truth. As if having known what love is was the same as living it out as Christ did. "For while we are yet sinners, Christ died for our sins." Forgive us and change us. AMEN

[@tommygiles9899]

There needs to be more lighting on the right side of the video

[@CapturingChristianity]

Yeah, I'm not completely happy with the lighting either. The next round of interviews we film (this week, in fact) will be different.

[@tommygiles9899]

@@CapturingChristianity Over all it was awesome it was just distracting. Keep putting out your content Cameron. I do discipleship training in my area and I've used some of your content to teach on. Love it!

[@Jockito]

So a person is not just bad because they do bad things, they are bad even if they do good things but have the mere *potential* to do bad things. At least in the Minority Report, people were guilty because of something they did in the future. In this scenario, it doesn't even matter what you do, what matters is what you have the *potential* to do. Then what's the point of doing good things? If you're bad either way.

[@habibchamoun4321]

We humans do good for selfish reasons: we want to show others we are good to make a good impresion, to prove to ourselves we are good or of fear of the consequences if we don't do what we a re supposed to do. We also get prideful when we do good since we see ourselves above other people who aren't doing as we do. We cannot love unconditionnaly like God did throught his only begotten son Jesus. Trust his blood that he shed for you on calvary for salvation.

[@Jockito]

@@habibchamoun4321 If God knows we only ever do good for evil reasons, then why command anyone to do good? What incentive is there for anyone to do good, when it just results in selfishness - i.e. evil

[@gratefulyes6282]

@@habibchamoun4321 I feel something's off. I do agree that people have dark sides, no matter who you are. Everybody has done bad things, bad choices, bad intentions. We are envious, greedy and so on. Those make us bad in that sense. I also agree that there's no selfless act even from mothers to their children because at least you get good feeling taking care and even sacrificing their lives for their babies. There's some extention though like: if you do something good to people knowing that they will never pay it back, like you die for a person you never know before, that in some extend can be considered selfless because you don't expect something in return and good feeling, pride or satisfaction occur to them naturally without them expecting it. Dr Clays says "a good person is actually you're growing in Christ and love their enemies." That's off. Consider this: if one does good things knowing that he's going to get rewards and eternal life in heaven vs one who does good things knowing that life is there is to it in earth, who is better or more virtuous? Does Dr Clays imply only "Christians" are good? If you can do good things because you get connected to the Holy Spirit on a daily basis vs those who are not Christians and even though they feel the same temptation to do wrong, still try to do good deeds anyway, who are better or more virtuous? I know there are good people like Marcus Aurelius who are not Christian but lived a noble life, sacrificed a lot and tried to live a truthful life. He is a king, the most powerful man on earth at that time. If you have powers and authority, that's when the tempation is at the highest. I'm sure there are good people before Christianity.

[@LoveYourNeighbour.]

This was a PROFOUND answer, that was part of a GREAT interview you had 2 weeks ago with Clay Jones. I enjoyed the entire interview and ESPECIALLY this part. Thanks!

[@rebeccajohnson3402]

So is the point that bad things (as well as good things) only happen to bad people as we are all bad people?

[@christophekeating21]

Pretty much. Blame the victim is the name of the game.

[@Jockito]

The way I like to put it is this; When a small child dies slowly and painfully of bone cancer; that's God's way of punishing that child for the crime of not being perfect. Quite literally.

[@Convexhull210]

@@christophekeating21 you're not a "victim". You are responsible for what you do.

[@Convexhull210]

Fundamentally we aren't good. Are you denying this?

[@ontheroad579]

@@Convexhull210 If we are all not good then the question can be rephrased: "Why some bad things happen to some "not good" people and not others equally bad or worse?"

[@tonyc2569]

Great commentary showing how abortion is no different from genocide.

[@lotstosay6359]

Once he started talking about abortion it was BS. Lots of legitimate reasons for abortion not even the same comparison to genocide. Absolute crap.

[@tmt8268]

And what of miscarriages? What about the gazillions of sperm wasted on porn?

[@innocentmwagilo406]

Man I love the theme music

[@homeyjeromy]

What is the definition of a "good person"?

[@Convexhull210]

That's a semantical red herring.

[@homeyjeromy]

@@Convexhull210 you might want learn more about those particular fallacies before accusing someone of them. Clarifying a definition is not fallacious, but ESSENTIAL in debates or when having discussions with someone who might not mean the same thing when they use a particular word. A Semantic fallacy is using an alternative definition of a word without clarifying that you are in fact using an unpopular or alternative definition of said word. A red herring fallacy is when someone brings up an irrelevant issue to divert the attention away from the original issue. Asking a clarifying question is, in no way, a fallacy of any kind.

[@homeyjeromy]

@@Convexhull210 however a sematical red herring would be to re-define a word as a distraction from the problem. Which still fails to apply to my original question, being that it was meant for clarification.

[@AP-Design]

This is my guess, but it seems like the definition they are presupposing is a person who naturally maintains a morally good position when there are no external factors (laws, traditions, social norms, etc.) encouraging the person into it.

[@tomben6180]

Jesus of Nazareth

[@gratefulyes6282]

I feel something's off. I do agree that people have dark sides, no matter who you are. Everybody has done bad things, bad choices, bad intentions. We are envious, greedy and so on. Those make us bad in that sense. I also agree that there's no selfless act even from mothers to their children because at least you get good feeling taking care and even sacrificing their lives for their babies. There's some extention though like: if you do something good to people knowing that they will never pay it back, like you die for a person you never know before, that in some extend can be considered selfless because you don't expect something in return and good feeling, pride or satisfaction occur to them naturally without them expecting it. Dr Clays says "a good person is actually you're growing in Christ and love their enemies." That's off. Consider this: if one does good things knowing that he's going to get rewards and eternal life in heaven vs one who does good things knowing that life is there is to it in earth, who is better or more virtuous? Does Dr Clays imply only "Christians" are good? If you can do good things because you get connected to the Holy Spirit on a daily basis vs those who are not Christians and even though they feel the same temptation to do wrong, still try to do good deeds anyway, who are better or more virtuous? I know there are good people like Marcus Aurelius who are not Christian but lived a noble life, sacrificed a lot and tried to live a truthful life. He is a king, the most powerful man on earth at that time. If you have powers and authority, that's when the tempation is at the highest. I'm sure there are good people before Christianity.

[@beataannanowak659]

Horrible things DO happen to helpless, weak, innocent or sick human beings.

[@ironyusa3885]

He sounds like Norm Macdonald.

[@U2B2024]

And looks like Kenny Rogers.

[@utopiabuster]

I agree with Dr. Jones on his final analysis but I think when discussing something like "genocide" and abortion we have to include the impact that darwinian concepts play in their rationalization during the last century and which persists until today in both Western and Eastern ideological precepts as the centers of philosophical thought and influences. When speaking of something like the "Rape of Nanking" (Asian Holocaust) I don't think many people have a full concept of the brutality and dehumanization the Japanese employed against the Chinese and peoples across Southeast Asia. Agreed, I accept Man's sinful nature but how does that translate into barbarism and inhumanity? Peace and God Bless.

[@utopiabuster]

@Clay Jones, Thank you ,Sir, for taking time from your important work to acknowledge my comment as I believe we should point out where "the rubber meets the road", so to speak. God Bless and continued success.

[@Sldejo]

Short answer: no. Long answer: nooooooooo.

[@anthonynelson6249]

This answer is interesting and almost compelling, but I also find it a bit problematic. The Bible doesn't speak this way or offer this justification. The prophets cry out and ask why the righteous suffer and the wicked prosper. In biblical vernacular, "perfect" does not always mean "without sin" (otherwise, how could Jesus charge us to be perfect as the Father is perfect?). "Righteous" almost NEVER means this. According to Scripture, a person who has sinned can still be righteous. That's why the prophets can cry out to God and ask why the righteous suffer (i.e. why do good things happen to good people?). And before you quote Romans, note that Paul is interpreting verses in classic rabbinic fashion to make a point, which is that all have sinned. He's not saying there have literally been no righteous people throughout human history. Paul was a Pharisee, not a Calvinist. For that reason, I think this answer provides a possible solution, but ultimately fails to answer the question the prophets are crying out about: why do those who fight their evil inclinations and strive to love others get cancer and die slow, painful deaths? Because they fail? But is it not impossible to succeed? Why do children get cancer? In my opinion, this doesn't answer these questions. But I'm happy to be corrected. :)

[@anthonynelson6249]

@Clay Jones Thank you for your response, Dr. Jones! Personally, I don't think Paul's quotation of OT passages should be taken at face value (or in their plain sense). At face value, if "NO ONE had done good, no not one," then surely our Messiah, Jesus, would be a sinner? You can say Paul considers Jesus an exception, but that would not be taking the passage at "face value." The passage says none, not one (i.e. no exceptions). My point is, what a passage says at "face value" is not always what it means. After all, at face value, Jesus tells us to cut off our hands so we don't sin. But that's not what he means. We have to read Scripture deeper than at a mere surface level. I'm not denying that every human being (with the exception of the Master) has sinned, but I am contesting the claim that "bad things happening to good people" never happens on account of there being no good people. The Bible calls MANY individuals righteous. If you think the prophets were wrong in asking about why the righteous of their day suffered, think of Jesus. Our Master was good, righteous, actually SINLESS, and yet He suffered tremendously, and not just at the cross. He lost loved ones, was struck, was poor, hungry, thirsty. Was he deserving of this suffering? Of course not. But he suffered anyway. Furthermore, this explanation doesn't make sense of a child's suffering or of animal suffering. Neither sin, yet they suffer and die.

[@anthonynelson6249]

@Clay Jones Thanks again for your response, Dr. Jones! I didn't think you interpreted "no one does good, not one" as meaning no one does a good act but rather that there are no good people. I don't think this is what Paul means. Surely he believed Jesus was a good person (if not many others). And yes, Moses was a sinner, but he was still considered a righteous man. After all, when a person repents and asks God for forgiveness and receives legal exoneration (justification), are they still considered sinners deserving of God's wrath and therefore deserving of their suffering? Further, Peter speaks of suffering Christians endure though they do not deserve it. Biblically, bad things DO happen to good people. Jesus is just one example. I don't personally see how to get around this. As for Romans 3, I didn't mean to say that there is a rabbinic reading of the Roman epistle. I meant that the author, Paul, as a rabbi and a Pharisee, is interpreting these OT texts in classic rabbinic fashion. Please feel free to correct any flaws in my reasoning. As you've written a whole book on the subject, I'm sure you've thought through it more than I have.

[@javariusjavarlamariuslamar3759]

Clay Jones Disappointing read. I suspect the other reviewers are entrenched Calvinists, so expect yet another Calvinist defense of evil, which is really not a defense at all. Dr Jones makes his argument in Chapters 2 and 3 that we all deserve hell because given the chance we would all be Hitlers and Stalins if given the chance. Scripture neither says this, nor does logic or human experience require it. Dr Jones bites into the “all or nothing” fallacy. Scripture doesn’t say we are totally depraved, it says we are totally lost. Our bodies don’t have to be 100% cancerous to die, the presence of any cancer will kill us. We don’t have to be 100% sin filled to deserve hell. Any sin deserves it. Dr Jones would have us believe any cookie baking Grandmother would be a Hitler if given the chance. The idea is absurd. Yes a very few would and most wouldn’t. That not the point. Every cookie baking grandmother is totally lost if she commits even one sin. Dr Jones gives numerous examples of the horrors of Auscsitz etc. He recounts those “normal” people who went along without protesting, but he dishonestly never tells of the multitudes who opposed the Reich’s atrocities both silently and openly. I don’t have to read about these atrocities to know of them. I’m not a theologian whose associations are books, but a physician whose associations are real people. I was Chief of Anesthesia in the largest burn unit in the country. I saw parents who had horrifically scalded their children, boyfriends who set their girlfriends on fire. I’ve seen horrors beyond imagination. But I never came away believing everyone given the chance would perform these atrocities. Yet people not even capable of these horrors are totally lost if they commit even one sin. Every person requires Christ dying on the Cross. Dr Jones flawed logic won’t convince a single atheist nor your doubting college student or child . I say that not as one who lives in theological ivory towers, but one who has seen countless human atrocities and tragedies like babies with brain tumors and the like. I have a wife with Stage 4 cancer yet logic doesn’t require a God who’d inflict that because she’s a sinner. If He did, then Christ death on the cross was not the total punishment; it requires her punishment too. This type logic betrays the sufficiency of the Atonement. Jones argument makes Christians just cleaned up Pol Pots, not totally new creations. The Christian story doesn’t stop with the first Adam, but with the second Adam, Jesus. Jones disdain for fallen humanity knows no bounds, rather than offering the Biblical Christ who was a “friend of sinners” and “moved with compassion” He wept for His “sheep without a Shepherd”. Dr Jones believes that due to our sins, we deserve to live in a world where your daughter can be raped because we deserve a world where MANKIND doles out INJUSTICES, rather than the Biblical view that we deserve a GOD who delivers JUSTICE. For a true biblical and solidly logical argument that reflects HUMAN EXPERIENCE and SCRIPTURE, save your time and money and read Dr Gregory Boyd’s “Is God to Blame? Beyond Pat Answers to the Problem of Suffering.” If you read just one book on the problem of evil, read that one. It’s fresh, logical, Biblical and consistent with real world experience and with the God embodied in Jesus of Nazareth. This book review sums up your position nicely

[@javariusjavarlamariuslamar3759]

Clay Jones another one r. Jones argues forcefully for the total depravity of man and at points he seems (emphasis on seems) to convey that man is as bad as he could possibly be at all times. Perhaps this was not what he wanted to convey but that is the idea I got from his readings. He equates anything good man does to selfishness and self-preservation. The Biblical truth that man is not good (Mark 10:18) is not the same as saying man is as bad as he could possibly be. Even in our fallen state, man is still created in the image of God (Gen. 1:26). Thus to attribute anything good man does to selfishness or self-preservation denies the divine image that we bear. Total depravity should be understood as sin permeating everything in man, not the concept that man is so incredible evil that he is not capable of one good act... There is a difference between the qualitative state of "good" and the ability to perform a "good act". As an example there are none believers who love and provide for their children, could those acts be merely because they are selfish and desire self-preservation? I would think not, and to assume that it is, is to carry a belief to its logical extremes and it misses the mark of what Jesus wanted to say in Mark 10:18. None believers are capable of recognizing good and doing "good acts" simply because they are created in the image of God.

[@grmancool]

What about when a 3 year old gets cancer

[@TheWatchernator]

Probably stole some ice cream -> death penalty. But he can be saved if he believes in Jesus. Isn't god wonderful?

[@Ivann1005]

@@TheWatchernator Terrible theology...Don't embarrass yourself like that.

[@questionasker8791]

7:43 According to him, doing a good act doesn’t make you a good person. But isn’t his whole other point that doing a bad act makes you a bad person?

[@jjccarpentry]

I think the parameters of what constitutes a "good" person and and "bad" things need to be defined before any of this is useful.

[@questionasker8791]

Jared Craig Agreed! Thanks for your response.

[@townla28]

It actually does work as long as the only "good" person is the perfect one, Jesus Christ. Then yes, any bad makes you not good while doing some good doesn't make you good. It just makes you a bad person who occasionally does good.

[@questionasker8791]

townla28 How do you know Jesus Christ/God is the perfect one? What standard do you use to determine that?

[@jjccarpentry]

@@townla28 If we interpret "good people" to be "perfect people", the question becomes "why do bad thing happen to perfect people?" Do you think this accurately represents the question that Cam is asking? In regards to my question, if "perfect" is just a descriptor of one who does all good action and no bad ones, it can still be asked what constitutes a "good" action or "bad things", right?

[@johncronin9540]

With all due respect, I think the statement about humans not being good is too strong, and also too generalized. For one thing, to assume that adolescent boys (or girls) are all adulterous murderers is far too broad and extreme. Adultery involves an extra-marital illicit relationship. High school boys are not sleeping with wives and mothers, or high school girls are not having sex with husbands and fathers. And adultery specifically is a sin against the marital covenant. At most one is usually talking about fornication (not that I am encouraging that, but it’s not the same as adultery). I also understand Jesus’ statement about hatred and lust, but while people can be tempted in this direction, they also can choose to refuse to act on that temptation, and while we think about sin as being in thought and deed (and don’t forget that there are also sins of omission), the deed is FAR worse than the thought. Part of the examination of sexual ethics among adolescents is that adolescence is a modern invention, and advanced education. At the time the Bible was written, and for hundreds of years after, most people married in their teens, and would quickly begin to raise a large family. Today, adolescents are essentially in a culture where the very strong instinct for reproduction have to be “suppressed” or deferred for several years. Physically, they are adults, capable of reproduction. But socially and economically, at least in the Western world, they are NOT ready to start a new family, unless they are from wealthy families, and can afford to marry, have children, and still continue with their education. And ANY biological organism, including human beings, must have a strong reproductive instinct, because if that didn’t exist, then that species would quickly go extinct. But it’s quite a long leap from sexual ethics to genocide. Most humans have not actively participated in such terrible acts. Or are unaware of their government’s involvement. Elie Wiesel was mentioned, and his statement is apt. The opposite of love isn’t hate, but is apathy. Having said that, people trying to help Jews escape in Nazi Occupied Europe knew that they were risking their lives. So one cannot exactly say that people who did nothing (probably the majority) aren’t exactly exercising their free will. And that factor is critical in moral theology. But where most people who ask this question, are talking about things like young children suffering from horrible diseases, and they simply are not old enough, or healthy enough to act in an evil fashion. They are innocent. Yet they suffer things, and are forced to confront issues like dying at far too young an age. The youngest children are only beginning to grasp just what death is. As for Elie Wiesel, perhaps the interviewee should re-read his account, “Night”. He wrote that for him, God died when he saw infants and toddlers and young children being tossed alive into burning pits. This obviously caused a crisis of faith for him, and for many other Holocaust victims. How could God allow such an evil thing to occur (you must remember that in Jewish theology, there is no concept of original sin. And there is a difference between my faith tradition (Catholic) and certain Protestant denominations. In Catholic doctrine, original sin does not corrupt the human condition does not cause all humans to be completely depraved. The effects do cause a “darkening” of the intellect, making it more difficult to distinguish good from evil, and a weakening of the human will to resist sin. Some Protestants, on the other hand, see the results of original sin as causing complete depravity of human nature. Ultimately, we should never forget one of the main points in the creation narratives in Genesis, that often get lost in the emphasis of YEC’s trying to interpret these narratives as scientifically accurate. That point is this: God declares what he creates as being GOOD. And there really is no simple answer to the question - read the parable of Job, whom the story says is a righteous man (not guilty of sin) - yet he suffers horribly. His question of God goes unanswered, and even though Job’s wealth and health were restored, and he has more children, one question that must be asked is what about justice for those children who lost their lives? (This was written before the doctrine of Resurrection was fully developed). In the New Testament, when asked about a disaster in a nearby city or town, where part of the wall collapsed, killing many people, those questioning Jesus asked what sin they, or their parents had committed. Jesus answer was that God did not cause the disaster, and stated that bad things can happen to the just and unjust alike. The connection between a disaster and that God was punishing sinners is a connection which should never be made. It doesn’t answer the question of “why” but Jesus goes on to say just how loving the Father is. I’ll check the full interview when time permits, but clearly this question is not a simple one.

[@lenia90]

NO MAN IS GOOD.ONLY GOD IS GOOD AND HOLY.HELLO FROM GERMANY

MAT 5:45 he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good. MAT 12:35 A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things. MAT 25:21, 23 thou good and faithful servant.

[@questionasker8791]

Lenia How do you know only God is good? What standard do you use to determine that?

[@SanctifiedLady]

1 John 3: 15 anyone who hates their brother or sister is a murderer

[@zakariyarazi8247]

Only perfect is good. Nobody is perfect so nobody is good. None. Only Jesus the Christ.

[@questionasker8791]

Zakariya Razi How do you know Jesus is perfect? What standard did you use to determine that?

[@chandramauligupta6787]

I am sorry what crime did the the one year kid who was raped or beaten or killed commit? Can you really look straight in eyes of starving kid and say - YOU ARE NOT GOOD AT HEART, YOU ARE JUST NICE.

[@WhatYourPastorDidntTellYou]

appeal to emotion fallacy

[@chandramauligupta6787]

@@WhatYourPastorDidntTellYou It is a question and then a suggestion at an experiment. I am not saying - "Since feels so bad, it shouldn't be done". I'm sorry but you missed point entirely. Nowehere I asserted that a decision should be made on emotion. Just use your logic, no emotion and answer the question. If you think yeah that little baby is bad at heart then okay. I'm not going to put you into emotional guilty state. Your beliefs are your own.

[@WhatYourPastorDidntTellYou]

Chandramauli Gupta whether you feel bad or not for telling someone they aren’t good doesn’t have any effect on its truth.

[@chandramauligupta6787]

@@WhatYourPastorDidntTellYou exactly. For some reason you keep thinking I am making an appeal to emotion. I have asked a question and suggested an experiment.

[@WhatYourPastorDidntTellYou]

Okay let's play your game. "I am sorry what crime did the one year kid who was raped or beaten or killed commit?" Romans 3:23 23for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God I'm assuming you are trying to say "has a one year child committed a crime". If one grants the mental capacity for a child to sin, answer is pretty clear. Can you really look straight in eyes of starving kid and say - YOU ARE NOT GOOD AT HEART, YOU ARE JUST NICE." Yes, emotions don't change truth.

[@threeofive9401]

To figure out if mankind is good or not, all anyone has to do is look at humanity as it is today. The entirety of the human species is a long-running social laboratory. So there are humanitarian efforts everywhere and there are also widespread acts of brutal cruelty. Jesus was a kind and gentle person. There are many such people walking the earth, and there are also the Hitlers.

[@Convexhull210]

But fundamentally, human nature is corrupt. You can't divide people into good and bad because the evil inside of Hitler is inside all of us. We all have the capacity to do great harm. So Jesus is correct when he talked about human nature because he's God and the only solution to human nature.

[@iDawn25]

I personally use "nice" over 'good' as long a human is concern, including me. Because truly, there is no one good except the Father in Heaven. That's it! "And Jesus said to him, “Why do you call me good? No one is good except God alone". Mark 10:18

[@questionasker8791]

6:04 Cameron, why do you specify non-Christians? From his point, isn’t he saying nobody is a good person, Christians or non-Christians alike?

[@CapturingChristianity]

Question Asker We talk about that in the next part of the interview. Check the description.

[@questionasker8791]

Capturing Christianity Thanks! I’ll wait for the next part.

[@CapturingChristianity]

@@questionasker8791 It's available in the full interview (which is available now). You can watch it immediately.

[@ontheroad579]

​@BananaJunior11 As Christianity has only existed for a couple thousand years and humanity for much longer. That would mean that there were zero good people before?

[@TheNummatus]

maybe it is a risky diagnosis (and surely amatourish), but I smells with a thread of pathological mentality. It is my impression after few of his interviews strengthen by reading his book on the problem of evil (with bold subtitle: ...compelling anwers...). I didn't notice such a lack of humility in any known to me academic philosophers of religion. His easy treatment of all people as permenently evil (not looking for God, etc.) is close to a liar paradox (for, of course, he is the One looking and finding God).

[@josephzicaro9913]

7:42 it seems that Dr. Jones thinks a good person is good because their judgement is good, and that a bad person is bad because their judgement is bad. I agree... but the issue is that judgement is not measurable. The only measure of anyone is their actions. So no, doing a good act does contribute to your goodness. The issue I think he's getting at is bad people doing good things because they're puting up a facade or they don't have much judgement at all and are just behaving in socially acceptable ways. Christianity is a good way to assure that good actions have good judgement.

[@gratefulyes6282]

I feel it's off too. I do agree that people have dark sides, no matter who you are. Everybody has done bad things, bad choices, bad intentions. We are envious, greedy and so on. Those make us bad in that sense. I also agree that there's no selfless act even from mothers to their children because at least you get good feeling taking care and even sacrificing their lives for their babies. There's some extention though like: if you do something good to people knowing that they will never pay it back, like you die for a person you never know before, that in some extend can be considered selfless because you don't expect something in return and good feeling, pride or satisfaction occur to them naturally without them expecting it. Dr Clays says "a good person is actually you're growing in Christ and love their enemies." That's off. Consider this: if one does good things knowing that he's going to get rewards and eternal life in heaven vs one who does good things knowing that life is there is to it in earth, who is better or more virtuous? Does Dr Clays imply only "Christians" are good? If you can do good things because you get connected to the Holy Spirit on a daily basis vs those who are not Christians and even though they feel the same temptation to do wrong, still try to do good deeds anyway, who are better or more virtuous? I know there are good people like Marcus Aurelius who are not Christian but lived a noble life, sacrificed a lot and tried to live a truthful life. He is a king, the most powerful man on earth at that time. If you have powers and authority, that's when the tempation is at the highest. I'm sure there are good people before Christianity.

[@GTMGunTotinMinnesotan]

Couldn't agree more. Sick of "apologists" giving points to people in debates because someone did something good yada yada yada.

[@chandramauligupta6787]

If bad things happen only because people are bad in heart means according to you the babies being aborted are bad.

[@kraffty1]

Chandramauli Gupta The babies are innocent. Abortion happens because people are bad and selfish!

[@steelersrule1296]

The point is NOT that bad things happen BECAUSE people are bad. The point IS that good and bad things happen to ALL people regardless. To say that people are inherently good is absurd, and to suggest that it would be unjust for bad things to happen to good people is also absurd because at the end of the day, all people are bad. As Jesus said “For he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust.” So basically life happens no matter how good or bad you may think you are.

[@chandramauligupta6787]

@@kraffty1 In video it is implied that bad things happen to people because they aren't actually good at heart. This means baby who was aborted isn't good at heart.

[@chandramauligupta6787]

@@steelersrule1296 That might be your point. But in video the solution to problem of evil is suggested - Bad things happen because people might do nice things but they aren't good in heart. This means baby isn't good at heart.

[@Convexhull210]

No it doesn't mean that. Babies aren't capable of making moral choices.

[@longliverocknroll5]

If this is the "BEST", wow. I would certainly hate to see the worst.

[@gratefulyes6282]

That's so sad

[@eugengolubic2186]

Haven't seen the whole video yet, but I wanted to write the first comment. 😂

[@cylenc405]

I disagree that people don't commit adultery, kill, etc. out of self interest. Even if I wasn't punished, I still wouldn't do most illegal things. Edit: I agree that doing a good act does not necessarily make you a good person. But by that logic, doing something bad doesn't make you a bad person either.

[@firstlast8081]

That's because you were born in an environment where the best way to adapt to survive is to be kind if you grow up in an environment where you needed to be evil to survive you probably wouldn't have been so kind

[@cylenc405]

@@firstlast8081 Regardless of where you were born, most people are naturally at least somewhat altruistic. Even most evil people believe they are doing the right thing, they just have a warped idea of what that is.

[@jjccarpentry]

What do you mean by self interest? Is you believe that actions are motivated by reasons and desires that originate from your psychological disposition, it seems that every action is done out of self interest, ones that you may consider good or bad.

[@cylenc405]

@@jjccarpentry Self interest probably isn't the correct term. What I meant is actions that benefit the self.

[@rebeccajohnson3402]

@@firstlast8081 This is right.

[@UltraX34]

This is so true. People are bad. Why do we think people who have immense power abuse it and do what they please? Cause they can get away with it. Humans are bad, we need redemption!

[@DanielGennaro]

Ah the response doesn’t satisfy what I was looking for. I think there’s an inherent evil ppl are born with and they pray on innocent ppl because of a dark self hatred or envy or jealousy of others. The devil was in love with himself. As a God. I think so many men and women see themselves as God and thus can do whatever they want to ppl without any remorse.

[@77pixels64]

I'm watching this with my jaw dropped, in utter disbelief on how Christians who support this kind of nonsense can laugh, smile and take comfort in the notion that they are a bad person who deserves death. As an outsider, what I see is two otherwise mature, smart, and normal adults, who have become totally convinced that they are horribly bad people, and they're proud of it, despite, I'm sure, that neither of them has actually done anything substantively bad in their lives. Seriously, I don't know how you can live with such cognitive dissonance.

[@mikethedracoon4012]

Most of the video has some convincing points, but I just need to nitpick this little section right here. 6:12 -- 6:28 "There are no inwardly good non-Christians." And what, do tell, makes the Christian inwardly good compared to nonbelievers if everyone is evil by his criterion? Though Dr. Clay Jones has provided real instances of humans being horrible, he has not really proven that only Christians are good people. And yes, I am aware that this video is addressed towards the problem of evil, but you cant make such a claim without good reason or evidence to support it. I don't even think such an out of nowhere claim adds to his argument. How does one even prove that one person is more inwardly good compared to another? let alone two or more groups in general? Such a statement reeks of the typical "Holier than thou" attitude that has plagued every human whether as a group or an individual for our entire existence. Sorry for the mini-rant anyway.

[@gratefulyes6282]

I feel it's off too. I do agree that people have dark sides, no matter who you are. Everybody has done bad things, bad choices, bad intentions. We are envious, greedy and so on. Those make us bad in that sense. I also agree that there's no selfless act even from mothers to their children because at least you get good feeling taking care and even sacrificing their lives for their babies. There's some extention though like: if you do something good to people knowing that they will never pay it back, like you die for a person you never know before, that in some extend can be considered selfless because you don't expect something in return and good feeling, pride or satisfaction occur to them naturally without them expecting it. Dr Clays says "a good person is actually you're growing in Christ and love their enemies." That's off. Consider this: if one does good things knowing that he's going to get rewards and eternal life in heaven vs one who does good things knowing that life is there is to it in earth, who is better or more virtuous? Does Dr Clays imply only "Christians" are good? If you can do good things because you get connected to the Holy Spirit on a daily basis vs those who are not Christians and even though they feel the same temptation to do wrong, still try to do good deeds anyway, who are better or more virtuous? I know there are good people like Marcus Aurelius who are not Christian but lived a noble life, sacrificed a lot and tried to live a truthful life. He is a king, the most powerful man on earth at that time. If you have powers and authority, that's when the tempation is at the highest. I'm sure there are good people before Christianity.

[@TheVofR]

The abused wife convinces herself she deserves it too. The Bible is making people hate themselves just so they can convince themselves that God isn't a dick. If Christians feel that they are truly evil and deserve hell, the right thing to do would be to reject salvation and take what you deserve. All humans are capable of great good or great evil. What matters is whether we leave the world a better place than we found it, that we had a good impact. I think you'll find that most people do, even if it's in little ways.

[@bryanstortenbecker2724]

This is the reformed doctrine of total depravity.

[@ofureughu7560]

People are not good. Lol that’s it.

[@sscliche]

First I like most of what you are saying. I am a Christian, I am from the South. I resent what you said about "somewhere in the 'deep south' there is a kkk mom baking cookies." I am a conservative and not a snow flake, BUT I get so tired of people including this speaker making comments that indicates the only place racism or the KKK is located is in the South. How dare you. There is racism and KKK believers all over this country. The movie and tv people do this all the time. Stop it. We are sick of it. An apology would be nice.

[@abhbible]

This is probably one of the most disappointing, short-sighted, and itself morally problematic answers to this question.

[@arzishmaneckji9208]

Why though ? What exactly is problematic?

[@Jonny-rc4wh]

I was on board till he said all non-Christians are bad. Not sure about that and I don't think you are either

[@ddannydaniel3340]

Everyone

[@benmetzger7040]

We are all evil, its our nature.

[@CapturingChristianity]

I think we're all sinners (and the evidence for that view is literally overwhelming).

[@Kevorama0205]

@Capturing Christianity What does sin have to do with being bad anyway? Even if we are "all sinners", that doesn't mean goodness cannot exist in people. When you call Hitler and Einstein "bad" in the same breath with the same meaning, why do we bother being "less bad"?

[@chandramauligupta6787]

@@CapturingChristianity Exactly. The month baby is a terrible sinner too, right?

[@BigIdeaSeeker]

Should be retitled as “People Are Not Perfect.” Such a bleak outlook Christians have. All humans are evil and life must have “ultimate” meaning to be worth living. I get that this works for you, but I find such extremism sad. Why can’t you guys get that for some atheists/humanists, life as we have it is beautiful, even more so given its limited time, and people are largely amazing, though greatly affected by environment and nurture? You don’t have to agree, just be generous enough in spirit to concede that it works for us.

[@AncientttimeZ]

Let me help you in more depth about WHY God allows EVIL. Jesus said God "alone" is GOOD! That is because God alone always knew exactly what GOOD is. EVIL is the necessary defining factor on exactly what GOOD truly is. "KNOWLEDGE" is the key here. ONLY God knows EVERYTHING. Remember Jesus does not know everything. That is why Jesus said God "alone" is GOOD. The fall of man was not an accident. Acts 15:18 "ALL of God's works are known to Him from the beginning of the world." That means God already knew man would fall. Job 42:2 "I know You can do ALL things and NO purpose of Yours can be thwarted." That means when Lucifer fooled Eve into eating from the tree, that did NOT thwart any purpose of God's! God could have cast Lucifer anywhere but He cast him to the same planet He was creating man on. WHY? Because Lucifer was the ingredient needed to ensure the fall. Lucifer did not do anything that God did not already know he would do. God alone is good because of His ALL KNOWING "knowledge." This is WHY the forbidden tree's name was the "tree of the 'KNOWLEDGE' of good and evil." God is teaching ALL of His creations exactly what Good is so all of His creations may become GOOD! When God's Grand Plan is completed we will all know exactly what GOOD is as God knows it. We will all know what EVIL is as God knows it. This experience is demonstrating just how much God loves us, that is why our lives are so short. We just do not realize this yet, but we will when it is all over and done with after the last thousand years are completed and Death and Hades are thrown into the Lake of Fire. We are learning this evil thing in an up close in our face lesson so we know it 100%. God is still in the midst of creating us. He is actually refining us, or in essence He is giving all of us our VACINATION against EVIL! "MAN" is God's greatest creation but not as taught in the world today that it's because man was made in the image of God, but rather... MAN is His greatest creation because of what God will achieve "through" MAN. MAN is the tool in which God will make the NONEXISTENCE of EVIL to become ABSOLUTE! A prayer filled with the wisdom of thanks that covers why we are here. -- "Ancien† †imeZ" -- "Thank You my Father in Heaven for this GREAT opportunity that You have bestowed upon each and every one of us here on Earth living a life separated from You. Directly from what You have set before us in our lives here on Earth, those of us who truly are paying attention have now come to realize and know the reasons "WHY" You are allowing all things other than GOOD to exist. It is so that we may learn what life is truly like without You before You reward us with living life in Eternity with You! This way what the EVIL ONE has done will never again be repeated. Thank You God, You are so wise and filled with PURE LOVE and COMPASSION. When we meet You in Heaven after You've given us our new perfect bodies with PERFECT self-control, that together with this GREAT LESSON learned here on Earth as we live our lives separated from You and Your perfect and righteous ways, evil will never exist again. We are so thankful for Your infinite wisdom in all You are doing. We know that You gave perfect bodies to Adam and Eve, Lucifer and all the other Angels that followed him. In Your perfect and magnificent mind You already knew that because of the FREE WILL that You give to all, a “PERFECT” body was in no way enough. You knew all along that one day a GREAT LESSON would have to be taught. YOU alone know everything and all Your creations do not! We thank You for showing us Your GREAT LOVE that You have for us by allowing us to experience EVIL, which is all things opposite of who You are and stand for. We now know and understand that You have ALLOWED all of this out of Your great never ending LOVE for us and all of Your other creations everywhere so ALL may learn this GREAT LESSON that You set into motion six days ago (that is six of Your days [6,000 years to man]). Now we have but one day left (1,000 years) until it is finished. We are so happy and thankful that the ultimate end result of Your GRAND PLAN to do away with EVIL completely will become reality everywhere! The result of You taking this time (7 days out of ETERNITY) to teach and refine us all, pure goodness will be instilled into the heart, mind and soul of every single being that lives throughout ETERNITY with You. All thanks to You for taking this small time-out from ETERNITY to allow ALL of Your creations to learn what You already know! This TIME You have taken will perfect Your greatest achievement, and the NON-existence of EVIL will become "ABSOLUTE"! We love You with all of our hearts, minds, bodies and souls. In Jesus name we all pray. “AMEN”!!! Why does God allow us to suffer--> That is WHY we are here. To experience and learn about both GOOD and EVIL! That is why the tree was called the "Tree of "KNOWLEDGE" of good and evil." God is perfect and good. Everything He creates is perfect. However, God loves all so much that He gives a FREE WILL. God knew all along there would one day need to tie up a loose end. There is an OPPOSITE of who God is. Until Lucifer tapped into it, it had never been touched before in all eternity. But God knew there was an opposite of Him. That is why Jesus said in Mark 10:18 ►"Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good--except God alone."... The reason WHY God ALONE is good is because only God knows exactly what GOOD truly is. God knows what GOOD is and He alone knew of the opposite of Him, EVIL. Because God loves all life He creates, He had to keep the FREE WILL intact and the only way He could do this was to create the OPPOSITE type of REALM to teach this GREAT LESSON in in His GRAND PLAN to make the nonexistence of EVIL become ABSOLUTE! All the suffering we experience is actually God showing us that He loves us. We just do not realize it yet. Once we are with Him in eternity when this is all over, we will understand and then we will KNOW good as God knows it. We will know EVIL as God knows it. Because God allowed this to be taught to us, what Lucifer did will never ever be repeated throughout all eternity. THAT is why our lives are so short here on Earth. It is all very simple really if you examine everything and seek to know TRUTH!!! -Jerry * Ancien† †imeZ

[@redbearwarrior4859]

There are no good people for bad things to happen too. Matt19:17. What we should be asking is why do good things happen to bad people? Mercy and grace!

[@Bc232klm]

Terrible response. This man is a sociopath.

[@CapturingChristianity]

Insults aren't arguments.

[@BeenThinking]

curious, lets say this man is a sociopath. Does that by necessity make what he said wrong? Let's consider what he said, and not whether or not he is a sociopath. What would you disagree with?

[@BeenThinking]

@BananaJunior11 Sure, it is not incorrect to say a sociopath is more likely to be wrong about morality.

[@TheWatchernator]

@@CapturingChristianity he only does good things (and abstains from bad things - I hope) because his religion tells him to. He thinks all people who think different are bad. He believes in imaginary beings contrary to logic and evidence. He thinks that extreme forms of violence is "something that humans do". That's not a sociopath, but ticks a lot of boxes.

[@christophekeating21]

​@@CapturingChristianity Insults seem to be Dr. Clay Jones' main argument in this video: nobody's good, everybody's bad, everybody's literally an adulterous murder by the time they leave High School. Btw, if Dr. Clay Jones was actually an adulterous murderer when he left High School, I hope he turned himself in to the police before lecturing the rest of us about what it means to be good.

[@paulandrews1548]

I hope this man remains a Christian. There are other world religions I wouldn’t want him to be convinced by!

[@samuelbulow5291]

Not sure if it was completely intentional but this was probably the biggest problem of evil dodge I've ever seen... Probably wasn't completely intentional as the problem of evil isn't really the question he's answering.

[@gratefulyes6282]

Yeah.. I agree

[@chandramauligupta6787]

Hmm so abortion is bad. Okay. So as per as you the baby being aborted isn't good. Can anyone really justify that?

[@CapturingChristianity]

Chandramauli Gupta I’m doing an interview next week with an expert on the ethics of abortion.

[@chandramauligupta6787]

@@CapturingChristianity I would like to see that however my comment might seem different than what I intended to. I wanted to say that let's say abortion is bad, this means bad thing is happening with baby being aborted. Doesn't video says bad things happen because people are just nice, not good. Means that baby is not good?

[@LosChongo]

This question is only difficult from a theist’s world view. Remove the paradox of god from your assumptions and the answer is perfectly clear. The plague killed the devout just as often as it killed the wicked. And prayer has exactly the same healing power as non-prayer.... for exactly the same reason.

[@TheWatchernator]

stop making so much sense

[@wheat3226]

So, the point is simply, there are no good people, Christian or non-Christian right? Once Jesus elevated thought crimes to the same level as actually doing the crime, we all became unrighteous. Now that sure seems different than what Jesus taught and did in the Old Testament.

[@TheWatchernator]

Stop hitting us over the head with facts!

[@doctornov7]

I would ask, what is it then that stops you two from doing evil? I would argue it's also self-interest, of course it is. I'm assuming you would do good because you wish to please God, because you love God, because you value God's so called commandments/teachings. But why do so? Is it the desire to go to Heaven that motivates you, at a deep level, perhaps subconsciously? If so, that's self-interest. But I don't see self-interest as evil. Do you? I'm an atheist, and I would say I do good because I value others (generally, there are of course exceptions, where people are "ill", and beyond remedy, but this is rare). I value others because: i) I was raised this way ii) I now see the value of valuing others; my experience of life is far greater as a result, and my Mum likely knew this, and so instilled these values within me. If I'm good to others, I'm better, and so are other people. This is "good" in my view iii) sic I value being valued (this is crucial, and arguably is a completely subjective preference, but I feel it's an almost universal preference) It all comes back to feeling and being valued by others. I want to be valued, and I understand that the best way to achieve that is to be "good": kind, funny, compassionate etc. Is that selfish? Well, not really. Self-interest isn't always selfishness. Maybe you (individually) think that by helping someone who doesn't like you, God will value you more (I would almost assume this to be true, if not what then is it that motivates you?) But again I would say that doing "good" to feel and be valued by others, whether those "others" are people, gods, or even animals, isn't a bad thing. I think Jesus (if he existed) knew this. He often espoused a philosophy of total love, which, if achieved, would bring about the greatest possible good. If my enemies feel (my) love, perhaps they'll soften and change, and thus a better world will be achieved. Jesus reiterated the Golden Rule, namely do to others what you would want them to do to you. The commandment isn't simply "Love your neighbour", it's "Love your neighbour as yourself". Self-love is a prerequisite in Christianity. You have to want yourself to prosper in order for you to love your neighbours, and then your enemies. As for thinking bad thoughts, I would agree if you said someone is only "good" if they think only good thoughts and do good actions. It depends if you think being a "good" person is possible. I don't think so personally, and St Paul agrees when he says there is no righteousness. I think it's impossible for someone to go through an average lifespan and never think an impure thought. For me, what's crucial is if the person acts on it. Of course someone who thinks about murder is not as bad someone who actually does it. But again there's a distinction between someone who trivially wonders what murder would be if they did it, and someone who harbours real desire to carry it out. I would say harbouring "sinful" desires is bad in itself, but if one doesn't act upon them, then that is certainly better. And one doesn't always have control of one's desires. One can certainly influence one's desires, but certain stimuli are bound to produce a chemical occurrence. And I also think that anyone, under certain adverse conditions, is capable of being changed into what we call a sociopath, or evil or morally sick. One simply need to take a cursory glance at history to see this to be evident. But that doesn't mean there isn't hope, of course there is. Would appreciate your thoughts on this!

[@maxiomburrows2099]

I know I may be saying this to the chior but, have no other God but YHWH(God)/Yeshua(Jesus)/HolySpirit, there is no one good but God the Father, We are created in Gods Image so to do good to others is a worship of God. Not for self interest but because this is what God is entitled to, if there is something to be bestowed upon those of us that do these things, it is serves to glorify God. Our goal is to die to self interest and live for Gods glory, being Gods means doing good for ourself also gives glory to God. BTW Jesus does exist ;)

[@doctornov7]

@@maxiomburrows2099 But why do this?

[@maxiomburrows2099]

@@doctornov7 Space, Time, Energy Matter and Thought is all of God, it all serves to glorify whether we recognize it or not. God would like(love) to have his creation be effective and has provide all that we need to be so. The Image of God, The Breath of God, The Word of God, The Spirit of God, The Body of God, The Blood of God, The Flesh of God, The Kingdom of God, The Church of God... do we need to be so vain as to ask why?... God loves me, you and all despite allowing those that choose otherwise to leave .

[@doctornov7]

@@maxiomburrows2099 Well yes I'd like to have compelling reasons to devote my whole life to a deity. I ask again, why should I believe in God? How do you seem to know He exists? What reasons do you have for your belief?

[@maxiomburrows2099]

@@doctornov7 well that is hard to answer... how does anyone know anything... knowledge and experience are comprised of many many things I guess, for me I do like some youtube channels but I can not make your mind up for you and we each are have to answer these things for ourselves. kzbin.infovideos has some good videos with some substance, can not say it will answer all questions for you but good listening as well as this channel Capturing Christianity , though it can be a bit cerebral ;)

[@questionasker8791]

Hasn’t God committed genocide too? Does that make him a bad God? He’s found reasons to justify it as well.

[@paradisecityX0]

The term genocide doesn't apply to a non-human entity

[@questionasker8791]

HistoryNET So, hypothetically, let’s say I completely grant you this, and we don’t consider the flood genocide. What do you call it when humans perform massmurder targeted to destroy specific ethnic groups as instructed by their god?

[@questionasker8791]

HistoryNET Agreed with Banana, if you had the chance, what would you call it? For instance if it were a group of aliens doing it, would you call it something different?

[@paradisecityX0]

@@questionasker8791 Mass-killing

[@questionasker8791]

HistoryNET I’m good with that label. Really any label for that matter. Now to change my original question. Hasn’t God committed mass-killing? Does that make him a bad god?

[@maxiomburrows2099]

We are born into sin, the only good people that have anything bad happen to them are the concieved unborn.

[@Foxfire-xq5ij]

Completely and utterly true! My gosh this guy is a genius.

[@mikewinter8193]

It's weird that your all powerfull, all knowing, all loving god needs you to defend why it allows these things. Good thing he has you to do what he can't.

[@paradisecityX0]

It's weird that a scientifically proven round earth needs people to defend it from flat-earthers. It's weird that a lion needs people to defend them when it's capable of defending itself

[@sasilik]

@@paradisecityX0 round earth does not need people to defend it from flat earthers. Lion is not capable of defending itself from humans. One weaponless human yes, but from many humans with guns - no.

[@paradisecityX0]

@@sasilik Nor does God need defending from random Atheists on the internet

[@mikewinter8193]

@@paradisecityX0 Why do you thinks that's the same. Isn't god 'all powerful'? Isn't god conscious and acting? The planet and science are not that. People are the only options for defense there.

[@sasilik]

@@paradisecityX0 seems that it does because god can't do anything and relies on people to talk behalf of it.

[@cindychristman8708]

And yet you worship and adore a god who commanded/condoned genocide and murder, abortion, rape, slavery, animal abuse, cannibalism, and eternal torture.

[@gratefulyes6282]

He put Adam and Eve in the garden, put the tree of knowledge there knowing that they will eat it and the generations down the line, will experience wars, hungers, diseases, evil and in the end there probably will be more people in hell that heaven. He even let Satan there to tempt them. He created man with the desire or at least the ability to go against God's will. What do you expect to happen? If it's not Adam, since He wants relationship and like to test man if they will choose him over everything, will Adam's children eat the fruit?

[@MrBaramit]

tl:dr --- Why bad things happening to good people? Actually they don't, because no one is good. Including this 7 years old kid who has terminal cancer. Also, abortion is bad.☹️ Did I get it right?