The Best Units in Horus Heresy in Under 15 Minutes!

[@doshutokeshi3877]

I've been listening and watching your videos since I got into Heresy 2.0. Your advice really helps me with the new box and my 2 boxes of Burning of Prospero I've been looking at in my stash. Cheers!

[@Hearesy]

Glad to hear it helped, thank you!

[@doshutokeshi3877]

@@Hearesy yes I stumbled across one of your videos and I immediately subscribed. I appreciate your advice and pragmatic look at both the rules and units

[@Kmwildride]

Interesting list, only managed a few games of 2.0 so far but even with some of those mental units, in a balanced list they didn't swing fights like OP units do in 40k I noticed.

[@Chewie2208]

I find your take on heresy refreshing. Too many of the videos I have seen from other creators are a bit waac. I've certainly decided to only include a smattering of small squads of the DA specific units in my army as I don't want to roflstomp whomever I'm playing. Conversely, I also know that if I have to play "that guy" I can give as good as I get if I increase the numbers or sizes of those units that I'm taking in moderation.

[@Hearesy]

Great approach, yep. Thats exactly what im advocating when I talk about *knowing* whats good in your army so you can use that info as appropriate!

[@CrimsonTemplar2]

Very handy, thanks. I’m glad I found your channel.

[@nathanclegg6717]

hi mate, any chance of a video about the word bearers daemon summoning? I've got a game against them in the coming weeks and I've no idea what to look out for. cheers man keep up these vids there really helpful!

[@marcmiddleton2277]

I really like the Sabres and jump pack SoH Reavers. It's sad that Reavers with jump packs was not in the rule book considering the first HH novel has them with jump packs

[@benjaminmapperson1940]

Opinion on the Sicaran battle tank? I personally don't think it's worth the extra points over a predator but I'm not super confident in that assertion

[@Hearesy]

Be a video about this eventually!

[@kadeton]

Interesting that Sekhmet made the cut - they've got good stats and abilities, but they're eye-wateringly expensive compared to most other Legions' elite Terminators.

[@TrueXyrael]

Yes but, they're also an Elite/Troop slot Librarian+retinue and have WS5. With Biomancy built into it and Ld9, you can use a reaction to go to toughness 5 and trade favorably against most other terminators and even dreadnoughts. Add to that you have a rite of war that lets them deep strike. But yeah I wouldn't take more than one unit, or more than 5 of them in said unit.

[@BrianZoidberg]

Yeah, +20 points for 1ws and the mediocre aetheric force weapons seems steep

[@TrueXyrael]

@@BrianZoidberg If you consider them to be a Powerfist armed (Achaen force axe) Terminator squad with a built-in Librarian, they're fairly well costed. You'd pay 185 points for 4 Cataphractii with PFists (assuming you could take 4 not 5), and another 130 for the Cataphractii Librarian, which is about the same as the 300 for the Sekhmet with a Discipline. Losing a wound on the Librarian but gaining WS5.

[@kadeton]

@@TrueXyrael That's a really good way of thinking about it. Thanks, you've changed my mind about these guys!

[@Hearesy]

Couldnt have said it better myself. Theyre basically a big, tough librarian, which is why i think theyre awesome.

[@TH-zb7sh]

I'd like to see the reverse lists next, what you think are not worthwhile, whether overcosted, subpar or otherwise.

[@TchHry]

What do you think of the Castra Pharum Dreadnought from the pdf? They don't look OP but they are well priced.

[@Hearesy]

Really good, a cheesy cheap way of getting lots of lascannons etc in your army. Standard PDF nonsense

[@jw7500]

Couple of interesting things of note. 1. Ebon Keshig being here. They are a bit expensive and have very few weapon options. Even though they have an FNP, they have WS4...and 3 attacks, but pay for their weapons because they can only have Glaives or Fists. It's overall a very odd unit 2.. Tactical Veterans not being here. Especially for Pride of the Legion these seem good. Just take a bunch of chainswords, few shooting weapons (Melta's/Missile launchers), 2 power weapons and taking Artificer armor + a fist or a hammer on the sgt. 3. What I am missing here is a ratio for what is considered a good baseline for a competent, but not competitive list. %of competitive units vs % of fun units in a list

[@Hearesy]

There is no 3. purposefully because that will vary according to your playgroup and friends. This is why i say to use this information and shape it to your needs - there’s definitely no one size fits all in self-policed, narrative styles!

[@jw7500]

@@Hearesy noted.

[@38crippler]

I'd swap red butchers for Rampagers. Red Butchers cost a lot, their defensive buff doesn't work with Angron or on power fists, and their lack of S8 options beyond the sarge means they lose to a generic terminator unit with power fists. Their trait makes them worse than a WS4 with +1 to hit after all. They're fearless and have hatred, which is nice, but stops them from using their legion reaction. Their main use i've noticed is just being a 10 man squad of almost WS5 terminators that can go with the berserker characters. However Angron joining them removes their -1 strength when attacked. Rampagers on the other hand, while in power armour, have some of the best weapons in the game, jump pack access, don't have a bad passive, can take characters without a premium tag (including LIbrarians which are impossible for Red Butchers), have Chosen Warriors and Stubborn with a high LD (which can fail you, but unlike fearless it lets them charge people who shoot em). Chosen Warriors especially making it so your premium characters (Kharn, Angron, Praetors in general) don't get stuck in a challenge they don't want and thus made useless.

[@khorneflakes4446]

Would you consider Iron Warriors breacher squads worthwhile troops choices?

[@LordoftheSwarm]

This is exactly what I was looking for!

[@carlosnieve1225]

Glad to see the Scorpius getting a shout. I think a lot of people are sleeping on it. such a flexible cheap unit

[@M4Maus]

Slept on? I've repeatedly seen people say it's the single best artillery unit in the game rn.

[@Hearesy]

I mean it is because its 80 points cheaper than the rest, haha.

[@cireesco]

Curious about your thoughts on Pyroclasts. They weren't on your list, but I've seen lots of people sing their praises. Thanks!

[@Theocook1]

Was very surprised you rated Crimson Paladins over Dawnbreakers for Blood Angels. For 150 points the combo of jump pack, WS 5, 2 wounds, 2+ save, +1 strength, reach and rending 5+ just seems an all round outstanding package

[@Hearesy]

I do rate dawnbreakers, looks like i just missed them off!

[@benjaminlouishart2549]

I second this, as a blood angels player I am biased but I genuinely think Dawnbreakers are one of the potentially scariest and hardest hitting units in the game. They have easy access to melta bombs, flexible ranged output with the their two grenade launcher profiles, jump packs and effectively a better deep strike, can give even charging emperors children a run for their money with high weapon skill and reach 1 so will likely be striking at the same initiative or better vs other elite units, and rending 5+ puts their spears in a similar tier to the terranic greatsword s of the dark angels in terms of ability to get damage through. They’ll be striking even harder on the charge and will be WS 6 on the charge of sanguinius is included in the army. Although they lack an invulnerable save so probably shouldn’t tangle with a unit in cataphractii terminator armour, they will very easily clear out power armoured enemies, and they are great target for biomancy buffs from an attached librarian with a jump pack. I think large units of Dawnbreakers will be pretty common as they’re points efficient, hit very hard, and have a very generalist melee weapon which can tangle with most targets. Might be worth taking a maul of perdition on the sergeant for a bit of a better time vs dreadnoughts, which in general are very strong vs basically any target without an invulnerable save. Crimson paladins are also great, the -1 to wound rolls in melee from their shields I think is a strong ability that is a little underrated compared to other storm shielded type terminator units, and again they have a very balanced generalist melee output, mixing in a few chain fists and a perdition weapon allow them to punch up vs harder targets, and then they can also take an assault cannon per 5 models which I think is worth taking to get a few rending shots off before combat. They don’t fill the typical terminator role either which is really nice, and since they can be non compulsory troops in day of sorrows you can decongest your elite slots which in a competitive army you’ll usually max out with common choices (terminator squad, apothecaries detachment, contemptor dread etc). I think they’re also not too strong which makes them not awful to play against, as I agree you don’t really want a game that’s unfair or with very broken hyper competitive units running around.

[@HyprHotshot]

How would you run a 15-19 man assault squad joined by a praetor in the space wolves legion?

[@Hearesy]

Hi, not sure I understand the question, their gear is pretty fixed!

[@fletcherhill796]

I reckon the Dark Furrys from the Raven Guard should be on the loyalist list. Keep up the good content.

[@Hearesy]

You are correct, thats absolutely an oversight!

[@Red2Productions]

Yeah that’s what I came to say!

[@CarmelloCassarole]

Thoughts on Palantine Blades?

[@Hearesy]

They’re fine, and theyd be a great affition to most armies, but theyre not as “competitive” as some units. I nearly played EC and I was definitely going to use a unit!

[@38crippler]

I've got to try assault squads one of these days.

[@philparis796]

Would you be able to do a video on the best allied detachments for each legion?

[@malcolmheather3204]

Ian, do you think Breachers in a TSons legion force with Raptora would work? Potentially 4+ invulsave. Like you have said, they won't take objectives but they can hold them. Are they worth the points and modelling effort? I was thinking of getting 28mm ancient Egyptian shields with rounded tops.

[@Hearesy]

They get a lot better with raptora and that modelling idea sounds EPIC so I’d 100% do that!

[@malcolmheather3204]

@@Hearesy Shields on order, stocking up for the next holidays! Pile of shame? What pile of shame?

[@selnik9088]

Very useful video for a beginner, thanks!

[@TheMrearl1]

I had a rules question regarding the Scorpius rocket barrage rule. Can Death Guard move and shoot while taking advantage of the Rocket Barrage Rule?

[@Hearesy]

Ha, id need to go read the wording but probably. Good idea!

[@disgruntled_veteran]

Okay, so I need to know if My army, that I've been working on for the last few years, makes me "that guy". I have all the miniatures assembled and either painted or getting ready to be painted. My Thousand Sons Force currently has 1x Cataphractii Praetor, 1x Cataphractii Forge Lord, 1x Cataphractii Primis Medicae, 80x Sekhmet Terminators (48 axes, 16 mauls, 16 chain fists), 6x Osiron Contemptors, 6x Leviathans, 2 Deredeos, and Magnus the Red. This isn't even my only army. Just the dream Army I always wanted to have

[@lorgor4eva]

Really good to hear most things in Hersey are good & viable. I’m a new player & I’am starting a word bearers force. It will be a slow build. 2 squads of tatical & 3 support squads 1 hellfire 10 man & 2 5 man flamers & melta guns. I’ve got some pistols & chainswords ready for a unit of dispoilers & assult squad (got some jet packs printed also) with mark 4 then mark 3 for a veteran squad & destroyer squad. Then some tartos terminators I want both types. Think that’s a good base before adding in more fun stuff like vorbak & ashen circle. Then dreadnoughts (legion daemon one of course) rhinos & heavy weapon squads then characters. We’ve got some good choices in word bearers. Hope I’m planning in the right direction 🤞🏻. Feel word bearers are infantry heavy army than lots of vehicles heavy.

[@leegarner4592]

Rhinos are REALLY awesome for the points cost!

[@graffpov]

Hydra Dominatus!))))

[@Hearesy]

Sir, I admire your dedication

[@kurnou5]

I've been struggling to like Night Raptors. Should they be kept largely bare with chainswords? Investing into weapons starts to feel real steep for such a vulnerable body.

[@element7202]

I run x2 squads of 10 with chain glaives expensive but fun

[@florianbielawa2919]

Are Lernean termies good or nah? Might just bring some phoenix guard instead as rewards of treachery or coils of the hydra thing.

[@Hearesy]

If I was playing AL I’d use them. They have Line, which is huge for terminators, though their stats and weapons are a real letdown, especially for their cost. The models are amazing too.

[@florianbielawa2919]

@@Hearesy yeah, WS 4 is sad.

[@TH-zb7sh]

Hydran exemplars gives them a flat +1 to hit in both shooting and to hit, plus they have it will not die, I think that, along with the noted Line, makes them very tasty indeed.

[@latro666]

I'd aruge the Land Speeder proteus could be pretty good with dual volkites - 10 s6 shots for 75pts. Also acts as an overwatch/return fire baiter.

[@Hearesy]

Yep. Most of what applies to HSS applies to them too.

[@heckinmemes6430]

When I show up to play, I bring a plastic shopping bag full of terminators. I don't even bother setting up, I just drop the bag on the table. I have won every game I have played using this strategy.

[@alexanderk7970]

considering a seeker squad or two for fast attack slots, as i dislike most other fast attack choices due to theme/esthetics, they would fit great mechanically in my Imperial Fists list due to legion trait, but Sons of Horus, being my second army, seem a better fit theme-wise, seeker squads dont seem to be a popular choice overall though

[@depthcharge126]

The way I fill out a list is: 1) Take a couple of units I really want whether fluff wise or competitiveness 2) fill out the list with my needs I.e. HQ and troops, usually looking to get 4-5 scoring units for 3k points 3) finish the list with counters to expected units (looking at you Spartan deathstar and marine spam) From a very high level, I’d say my “competitive” units occupy no more than a third of my list. I think it’s easy to get in the mindset of spamming optimal units, but if you play any sort of vet of the game, they will expect it and try to beat you on objective points. A 35 point rhino can block the charge of a 300+ point unit of terminators after all ;)

[@Hearesy]

Sounds perfect!

[@thatsedzoonth]

I liked the video! I will admit as a veteran of 10 years playing warhammer not the most helpful video you’ve put out! I would love a breakdown of some of the specific units!

[@andrewdryburgh1893]

I thought phalanx Warders would’ve shown up for Loyalists, apparently with Fafnir they’re amazing

[@kGb1783]

11:39

[@andrewdryburgh1893]

@@kGb1783 ah what mb I must be blind from bad lighting while I paint minis lol

[@emissary3850]

Have to say, how are Dawnbreakers not on the list? They're fantastic with spears

[@endlesswaffles6504]

Why all the dislikes?

[@bingus282]

>every primarch Angron is absolutely crippled, almost everyone hits him on 2+ or 3+. Same applies to red butchers

[@franknfurterfan666]

Is this base books only no updates and pdfs? That would explain no fulmentarus.

[@Hearesy]

I dont consider that pdf valid :)

[@MrKieras666]

@@Hearesy interesting,why ? No Atramentar for NL without it,pdf is fluff sauce

[@Fireclaws10]

@@MrKieras666 because the PDF is 0% thought out. The points costs and rules are everywhere, nearly everything is underpowered or overpowered. Half the legions are missing characters, it’s an absolute mess.

[@GoglbMoglb]

Why no seekers?

[@red4foxela]

I disagree with a lot of things in here. Normal Terminator units get moshed up by most of the special Legion Units. I have yet to see a game where a Xiphon does not get shot down the turn it arrives. There is so much interceptor in the game, a AV 11 2HP Flyer doesnt really stand a chance. The Sicaran Arcus seems to be an obviously missing. The Leviathan is more than a replacement for the Contemptor. The Claw is Burtal(3) and Cuts everything apart from maybe a primarch in half, the Melta is the other obvious choise if you stuff him in a Dreadnaught Droppod. Glave isnt competative. You can basicly put a single Contemptor infront of his barrel (in the line he will most likely shoot) and block the beam. The Falcion NEEDS to be mentioned here, its a 5" Blast with low AP and Ignors Cover at S14 (or S10 if you swap the weapon). On the Loyalist side you need to mention the Fulmentarus Terminators S 8 AP 2 and Brutal(2) kills everthing in 24" while they dont even need LoS. EC Sunkillers are insanely deadly and cost almost the same pts as a HSS with LasCannons. Personaly I wouldnt mention Red Butchers. They get shredded by most special Terminators and lack AP 2 at Ini, Deathshroud took at hit from last edition.

[@n7xranger]

No Pyroclasts? Unfortunately since all our special characters besides Vulkan are in the PDF I'm stuck with Praetors and Centurions. Edit: missed the Firedrakes

[@Hearesy]

Firedrakes are there and i think pyroclasts are really close but not quite. Could be persuaded otherwise though! I do like pyroclasts

[@Henevas]

Firedrakes at 11:32 section.

[@Pikminavenger]

I would say pyroclasts are worth it in the covenant of fire, but otherwise are just a decent choice. The addition of line really pushes them over the edge

[@TrueXyrael]

"Every Primarch" "Even Lorgar" Yo, Lorgar is incredible, he has a lot of buffs for his Legion. But what about Magnus? Lorgars stats are superior to Magnus', you can take 2 Osiron Telepathy Dreadnoughts for the price of Magnus, and they shoot off more psychic abilities than he does and have better melee weapons.

[@Rich0029]

Can’t Magnus just use biomancy to make his weapon st 10? Also he makes it so any perils are just one wound instead of d3 for the entire legion.

[@Hearesy]

Magnus is good. Expensive compered to other primarchs but not as bad as people are saying.

[@joseffjones4575]

@@Rich0029 his weapon is str6 so it can go up to 12 with force but since the weapon isn't str user when he uses the biomancy +1str on himself to be str7 he still uses his weapons str6 and i think he only reduces the perils by one to minimum of 1, so D3-1 His biggest problem is the way adamantium will works in this ed, against angron and legion they all have a 3+ invulnerable save against him which is a little ridiculous

[@KurtzeTube]

So, the game is pretty balanced and almost every unit is useable. Maybe we can use this chance to stop power leveling and maybe maybe, we won’t ruin this game.

[@Hearesy]

Why do you think the game will be ruined? I think most of (at least this) community are finding a great level!

[@batteredwarrior]

No Headhunters?

[@Hearesy]

Im 50/50 on headhunters being really powerful. Theyre definitely good though!

[@TH-zb7sh]

I am fascinated by your opinion of the saboteur as I considered it utterly bland now, losing it's 1st ed explosive hijinks.

[@Hearesy]

Its just really cheap for what it does!

[@michahanuszkiewicz9409]

Well, you are walking on a thin ice :P I think it would help, if you explained the methodology you followed. I assume was it derived from the points efficiency? Killing potential? It’s sad breachers didn’t make it, but I guess it’s bcs they are too costly for the killing potential they bring?

[@Hearesy]

I like thin ice as long as you dont fall through! Too costly for everything they do - thats not to say they are bad, they just arent the units that will be winning the game for you, probably.

[@michahanuszkiewicz9409]

@@Hearesy Haha agreed!

[@OmegaSolider13]

no veterans?

[@Hearesy]

Theyre not the best, but see my most recent video, i do think theyre good!

[@OmegaSolider13]

@@Hearesy yeah i watched it when i got home this morning and i couldn't help but think how ironic was that i left this comment.

[@soic9690]

I feel like Dawnbreakers should have been in the loyalist list I won't lie

[@Hearesy]

Agree, they were an oversight!

[@OK-hl6qd]

Sooooo everything is good? Lol

[@3v3rhard]

Seems like some general talk.... missing the in depth part.

[@Hearesy]

Purposefully! This video was an info dump of good units without the in-depth part, aimed at people who maybe need the baseline.

[@x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x]

But I dont need videos under 15 minutes... 🥲