The Big Problem With American Movies - Christopher Vogler

BUY THE BOOK - THE WRITER'S JOURNEY: Mythic Structure for Writers
amzn.to/41XlKRv
BUY THE BOOK - MEMO FROM THE STORY DEPARTMENT: Secrets of Structure and Character
amzn.to/3Fd8NZQ
In this Film Courage video interview, Author Christopher Vogler discusses the concept of the Hero's Journey and its cultural variations in different parts of the world. Growing up in the Midwest with a background of old Warner Brothers movies and cartoons, he initially believed heroes were powerful, selfless forces capable of changing the world. However, his travels exposed him to diverse cultural perspectives. In some Eastern European cultures, individuals attempting to change the world were seen as foolish, and the term "hero" was disapproved of in certain places like Denmark.
Christopher Vogler made documentary films as an Air Force officer before studying film production at the University of Southern California, where he encountered the ideas of mythologist Joseph Campbell and observed how they influenced the story design of the first Star Wars movie. He worked as a story consultant in the development departments of 20th Century Fox, Walt Disney Pictures and Animation, and Paramount Pictures, and wrote an influential memo on Campbell’s Hero’s Journey concept that led to his involvement in Disney’s Aladdin, The Lion King and Hercules. After the publication of The Writer’s Journey, he had a hand in developing the stories of many productions, including Disney’s remake of 101 Dalmatians, Fox’s Fight Club, Courage Under Fire, Volcano, The Thin Red Line and many others. Vogler lives in Los Angeles, California.
MORE VIDEOS WITH CHRISTOPHER VOGLER
bit.ly/420becd
CONNECT WITH CHRISTOPHER VOGLER
chrisvogler.wordpress.com
/ chris.vogler.568
MORE MICHAEL WIESE PRODUCTIONS AUTHORS
mwp.com
VIEWERS ALSO WATCHED
12 Stages Of The Hero's Journey - • 12 Stages Of The Hero'...
What Happened To The American Movie? - • What Happened To The A...
The Problem With Hollywood Movies Today - • The Problem With Holly...
Comparing Bollywood To American Filmmaking - • Comparing Bollywood To...
One Day Asian Americans Playing Normal Roles In Movies Will Be A Regular Thing - • One Day Asian American...
(Affiliates)
SAVE $15 ON KZbin TV - LIMITED TIME OFFER
tv.kzbin.infor0847...
►WE USE THIS CAMERA (B&H) - buff.ly/3rWqrra
►WE USE THIS SOUND RECORDER (AMAZON) - amzn.to/2tbFlM9
► WE USE THIS EDITING SYSTEM - buff.ly/44FYkAk
SUPPORT FILM COURAGE BY BECOMING A MEMBER
/ @filmcourage
CONNECT WITH FILM COURAGE
www.FilmCourage.com
#!/FilmCourage
/ filmcourage
/ filmcourage
/ filmcourage
/ filmcourage
SUBSCRIBE TO THE FILM COURAGE KZbin CHANNEL
bit.ly/18DPN37
LISTEN TO THE FILM COURAGE PODCAST
/ filmcourage-com
Stuff we use:
LENS - Most people ask us what camera we use, no one ever asks about the lens which filmmakers always tell us is more important. This lens was a big investment for us and one we wish we could have made sooner. Started using this lens at the end of 2013 - amzn.to/2tbtmOq
AUDIO
Rode VideoMic Pro - The Rode mic helps us capture our backup audio. It also helps us sync up our audio in post amzn.to/425k5rG
Audio Recorder - If we had to do it all over again, this is probably the first item we would have bought - amzn.to/3WEuz0k
LIGHTS - Although we like to use as much natural light as we can, we often enhance the lighting with this small portable light. We have two of them and they have saved us a number of times - amzn.to/2u5UnHv
*These are affiliate links, by using them you can help support this channel.
#story #writing #entertainment

[@filmcourage]

What does the concept of hero in a story mean to you?

[@walterw9829]

Not acquiesing.

[@Sci-Fi_Freak_YT]

I find the concept of a hero to always be morally grey and never black and white (imo). A perfect example of this would be the videogame NieR: Replicant and it’s protagonist Nier. So spoilers: NieR is a character who has an unimaginable love and care for his sister who he wishes to save. But she is sick and later kidnapped by the villain “The Shadowlord” but you find out in a pretty dark twist that not only is NieR not human (a fake human) but the Shadowlord is the real Nier (a kind of ghost) and is trying to save the real sister. Creating a huge moral dilemma in the audience because throughout the entire story you follow a fake, and you feel awful as the player having to kill the real Nier and sister. It is this kind of hero I find more intriguing and actively dislike these perfect characters that Hollywood pushes on audiences. In short the hero is based on perspective, and anyone can be the hero in their story and commit atrocities for their morals.

[@dreamcatcher5502]

The person behind the wheel driving the story. Hopefully it's a hell of a ride !! 😂

[@lazerith840]

Someone that overcomes the odds against them, and is successful in achieving their goals. It has nothing to do with the cliches of action hero’s.

[@BionicDance]

*_""And the end of the story was quite hopeless..."_* Well, why the _hell_ would I want to watch _that?_ I don't go to the movies to feel _worse_ when I leave; I have the real world for that! I want escapism. I _want_ the fantasy of making a difference and beating the bad guys...specifically _because_ it happens so rarely in real life! That's the whole idea! That's not a _problem_ with American movies...that's their _strength._

[@dreamcatcher5502]

YES !!! TO BE INSPIRED AND LIFTED UP !! I AGREE ❤

[@goldfishy]

Vogler, unfortunately, is wrong here. His book "The Writers Journey" is a simplified, stripped-down version of Joseph Campbells "Hero with a Thousand Faces". (Both books are worth reading, imo.) Campbell's entire thesis, which he backs up with countless mythological examples dating back thousands of years, is that we all see ourselves as the Hero of our own life and we go through specific stages on that journey - The Hero's Journey. These stages are in every culture, but they transcend the culture. They come from a deeper psychological root that all humans share. Which is why two cultures on opposite sides of the planet had similar myths. That connection is what made Campbell famous. Yes, you can have stories that don't follow the Hero's Journey. There are tons of examples. But to say a culture doesn't like or have Hero's and views them poorly is simply incorrect. The Hero's Journey is something all humans participate in, whether they realize it or not. We are all heroes. Go read "Hero with a Thousand Faces". Vogler's "Writers Journey" is good for short hand application, but he largely misses the point of Campbell's work, imo.

[@bcdside]

There is no “Star Wars” without Joseph Campbell.

[@awakenmystory]

i was thinking exactly this while watching, you articulated it so well! how could he have had such a western mindset if he’d studied campbell’s works? it’s so strange to hear him answer this way, especially after all his workshops and knowledge of the hero’s journey

[@goldfishy]

@@awakenmystorythank you and I agree. I was really surprised by his answer.

[@LoveOfLam]

@@bcdsidethere’s no Star Wars anymore

[@walterw9829]

Yes. Conformity is depressing. Imagine all the points in history, how different it would be if leaders just conformed.

[@bcdside]

The title of this video is misleading. This is more of a criticism of the mythical hero’s journey than American movies.

[@Zehahahaa]

There is really good American cinema but sadly is hugely overshadowed by the big Studio conglomerates and Big Hollywood Movies.

[@jonathanrivlin6248]

I always appreciate a different view, and i respectfully disagree with the idea that the hero's journey is uniquely American or that being American, a positive aspirational protagonist is somehow not a positive attribute of American cinema. Art is a reflection of society. Our movie heroes reflect how we see ourselves, or what we aspire to be like. Let the defeatists and nihilists cry themselves a river. I'd just as soon work to find a solution to the problem with my fellow, however flawed, heroes.

[@sunlightpictures8367]

There are some European character-driven films where the character doesn't transform at all; the story is a series of scenes strung together or it's an adventure but doesn't lead to a significant change in the character(s). Personally, I'm glad that the Hollywood formulaic storytelling isn't used in every culture; I like to see different stories, told different ways and to experience that culture's unique perspective.

[@lesbird1041]

Forrest Gump?

[@JagIsOnline]

The documentary he mentioned, whose name he couldn't remember, is All That Breathes (2022) dir. Shaunak Sen. It's shot in a very engaging way and was one of the nominees at the last Oscars.

[@ssnakezz]

Heroes exist across cultures, globally, it's not just an America idea. He needs to talk to more people imo. But honestly, this sounds like the philosophy of a beaten down people, definitely not something anyone should aspire to.

[@faa9261]

Even they have a story to tell right?

[@ZanethMedia]

Even with cinema in decline, no one is talking about Danish movies for this reason.

[@ChancellorMarko]

This feels like it would've been an interesting take 40 years sgo. Post-modern movies have been coming out of Hollywood for decades now.

[@UnleashthePhury]

Everyone is the hero of their own story. The hero is living their life. It’s not perfect. There are things they’d like to change about their situation. They have it within themselves to affect that change if they decide to. The hero’s journey is less about changing THE world as it is changing the hero’s world. If the hero’s cause and their actions are righteous, the audience will enjoy the movie. If not, they won’t.

[@wexwuthor1776]

The hero's journey is as old as storytelling itself. Many feel that it is a metaphor for the inner spiritual journey that we all must take eventually. If you take hero out of the journey in fiction what's the point?

[@yapdog]

They may call us foolish or idiots, but we can and do change the world. And, regardless of how we may be viewed geopolitically, our hero-based pop culture is, indeed, *_popular._* Let's own it.

[@AndreVeaseyJr]

Others who've discussed the hero in my opinion are ahead of this guy. Often in any type of narrative, there's a hero to fight against the bad guys. However, the bad guys could be the police in a crime thriller. A rival in a romantic comedy. When I think of a hero its someone (I didn't mention man or woman) who must overcome an obstacle simply. The hero can't change if he/she is convinced to be like everyone else.

[@victorcates9330]

1) There can be situations in which Hollywood touches undermine a story. Certainly, documentaries (or anything issue based) can suffer if they try and force structure artificially or paint too pretty a picture. I thought The Act of Killing forced its ending and seemed accidentally pat. 2) Humility and being able to hit different notes seems useful. However, if you talk about cultures in which you can't stand out, it might be choking or political. I have an appreciation for tall poppy syndrome. I have an appreciation for stories that might involve groups of people. But the reverse is smacking someone down for being an entity unto themselves or having a sadistic relationship to someone's downfall for purported hubris. If you consider an asian culture, you might sympathize with a view on adhering to social norms. But you'd be more critical of a similar strand in England, finding it to be grey and stagnant and a choking mess of manners. Maybe the issue is just that American films skew towards grandiosity, whereas a hero's journey might be less pompy if the stakes are finding a moment's grace or courage or humor. My view is that you can probably tell any story and the task is to find the drama.

[@dreamcatcher5502]

It's as simple as the "David vs Goliath" story. What a vanilla life they must live in Denmark 😂

[@LuisAntonioFlores]

Love it

[@TAHJ1987]

Honestly...as a filmmaker myself I don't see the talking points he was referring to as problem.i like to celebrate our uniqueness as American cinema...to be different..standout...a heros journey...telling stories from a singular pov...I'm not saying our culture is the only way to do it...there's alot of different ways to tell a story...and best part is we actually.have the freedom to do so...

[@filmcourage]

True, we do have so many freedoms here that should be appreciated compared to other countries. Our ability to freely tell stories is a privilege. I love how Christopher explained how a hero is seen in various ways across cultures. Thanks for watching, Jaron.

[@grantgreyguda]

👍 👍

[@chuzzbot]

Well he's certainly creating a good fiction about the stories from Europe.

[@lazerith840]

Every culture has hero’s that are individually responsible for the success of their story. For example China is a communist country that emphasizes group mentality, but then they make films like Kung fu panda, or Mulan, or The Monkey King, or tons of other kung fu films with one main hero. India has hero’s, Russia has hero’s, the west definitely has hero’s. I’m actually having a hard time trying to think of a film without hero of some kind in the film. It sounds like a boring film to cut the hero out. All you end up with is something similar to a documentary or something un eventful.

[@TenHeadedSkeleton]

That's why the "Vanishing" remake sucks. Had to give it a Hollywood ending didn't we. `

[@click632]

The Australian thing is in reference in someone acting like an a-hole who thinks he is better then everyone else....its not about standing out or being better then someone

[@BmakinFilm]

I aopreciate the inclusion of Volger's opinions and observations. he's quite correct that in other parts of the world people view the role of the individual differently . I see that where I now currently live in Bali Indonesia. The family unit is still most important however an individual can really affect it positively or negatively through there actions. in the very basic way if an individual does something great for the family it's appreciated but just seen as the normal and expected actions of someone who prioritizes their family... I think one thing Vogler is simply trying to do is encourage western filmmakers to consider that stories need not be hero based in the western sense ... in the documentary i am currently editing i tell the story of many heroes -women- seeking to bring about gender equity in the world of jazz music: kzbin.info/www/bejne/d3iahJWLg7F7htU

[@markfennell1167]

This is horrible. The concept of heroes is essential to humanity. If you stop believing that good men can take great risks for the benefit of humanity, then you should not be in films. Only the pessimistic, week, and jealous would want to remove heroes.

[@markfennell1167]

I don’t know who this guy is. But he should never be anywhere near films. He does not get it at all. Every story should be about a hero. Every story should be inspirational. Every story should show how a somewhat average man overcame great odds. This is something we have not had in film in over a decade. It’s the main reason I want to become a screen writer and Director. I want to see movies like Rocky. Casablanca. Karate kid. High noon. Back to the future.

[@gijane2cantwaittoseeyou203]

American movies are woke. that's the problem he and others refuse to mention. however, America is more and more getting back his shit together and competent people are in control now like the CEO of WB discovery. In a decade or two we will reclaim the first place in international cinema and tv shows.💪

[@ljdajoker7113]

I beg to differ. America has stifled individualism and it's led us to a day and age of the clone. Seldom is there a new idea offered by a American movie. Now they're just remaking everything because these clones they've created have no fresh ideas. They've killed creative minds off in exchange for safe/controlled financial gain.

[@faa9261]

Define woke?