The Big Problem With Building Your Minis

[@dadefrost2059]

Hey, your videos have really helped me 'just start' painting. From refining my techniques to just making myself paint. I've painted all the marines from dark vengeance (been on the frame for 5 years. Its moved with me 7 times). I'm working on my genestealer cult now, i'm *actually* working on my blood ravens. So yeah. I just wanna say thank you! Also, I love your pro tips!

[@tabletopminions]

+Dade Frost Always glad to help. The Dark Vengeance Chaos Space Marines are some of my favorite sculpts ever. Thanks for watching!

[@dadefrost2059]

I have only done the aspiring champion for the chaos marines. I might do all the rest in the same colour scheme as the dark angels (they're leadbelcher with an agrax wash and purple guns, some other details (skin, robes, purity seals)) to add to them (increasingly heretic dark angels successors anyone?) Thank YOU for making such great videos! I'm working through your back catalogue as i'm painting. Its great! You have been inspirational. I'll stop fawning now. Bye!

[@Gazzathehutt]

Dade Frost b

[@Piat47]

I like to play with the labour required to earn the money to buy the minis 👍

[@davidcarson752]

@@tabletopminions u are sooooooooo cool

[@Trazynn]

This is why I prefer to play games with the miniatures still on the sprue.

[@TheClassicWorld]

No need for movement trays, then...

[@sirdrakey]

decentradical you should get an army of geese! Call them the "sprue gooses" °~°

[@dimligloing]

You just scored a critical hit on my sense of humour. Brilliant.

[@hilmir6614]

Ryan "Ducky" Georgieff sprue geese

[@chellovack]

maybe i'll play games with my "start collecting" box.

[@madbrianthepirate]

I do get that painting is not everyone's bag, but to me, my stuff just doesn't exist until it has been painted.

[@tabletopminions]

That's how I think of it, as well. Thanks for watching!

[@KantFromEC]

my entire army is proxies, a hav about 120 pimaris intercessors, 2 repulsors 3 redemptor dread naughts and a 30k anniversary captain they're all just rocks but hey man, in my heart, they are primaris...

[@bobuscesar2534]

I own a Proxy Titan Legion. Also Rocks.

[@maxschmidt666]

Charlie C somehow that makes me sad... XD

[@Ottakazi]

Someone get dis Git lova outta here

[@doctormelgarejo7258]

Oh man...

[@Cyberpunk644]

Heresy!!

[@BrunoSantosTDL]

Never used sub-assemblies. I really never felt the need, as when I'm having trouble painting an area, it's probably because it's so hidden and obscure, you can't even see it properly unless from a specific angle. Also, I don't agree with the whole "don't build" but that's me, if it helps other people, they should try it. Me, I glued my entire ironjawz army and started playing with it, but then. slowly but steady, they are all being painted, and I promised myself I'd only get the Maw-Krusha after everything else was painted. Goals and personal rewards, to me are the way to go (and I refuse to create a time limit for myself, like "paint everything before a game or tournament". Painting is something to be enjoyed and a relaxing activity, not a race against time) Ofc, this is all personal opinion :) YMMV and I'm happy Uncle Atom is here to talk about all the different things we can try. Keep up the great work!

[@bethanygraham427]

But building them is the BEST bit....

[@SWIFTO_SCYTHE]

Bethany Graham no way building them is the worst. Painting is the best most fun part as it unleashes creativity and freedom. All marines are built the same but everyone has their own paint scheme and style.

[@bethanygraham427]

I do not build marines :) To me the building and converting is the best and most creative bit, but then I am not a very good painter, just tabletop quality.

[@mutantgoblin1402]

Plastic glue is a smell that can only be described as divine.

[@RageWild90]

Even when building Space marines, you can still have some creative freedom. I like building models on its own, but I really enjoy it when I kit-bash and add some parts to make the models unique. There are many ways to personalize your models before you even start to paint them. And if you have no fun at all while assembling then maybe you should switch up some of the tools you use(a different glue, different tools for sanding etc.). Ill-suited tools can take all the enjoyment away. ^^

[@mutantgoblin1402]

i don't think you can consider kit bashing space marines to be converting. All those kits are designed to be interchangeable. It's like saying you changed your car tire to an off road tire so it's now a custom model. Proper old school converting involved having to cut up models and use putty to fix the gaps. Check out the early Chaos stuff where they made mutant ostrich with baby heads. That's converting as it should be and not just buying additional parts pre-designed to be used out of the box.

[@Autoxidation]

I think it depends on what your priorities are for the hobby as a whole. For me, I have many, many models that were painted (poorly, by my current standards) from over a decade ago that I plan to eventually repaint them. My first priority for tabletop games like Warhammer is to actually play the game. I have always enjoyed building models so that's typically pretty high on my list of things I like to do in the hobby. But painting for me is a chore and extremely time consuming, especially playing a horde style army like Tyranids. I'm not going to let it get in the way of me enjoying the game for what it is, a tabletop strategy game.

[@tabletopminions]

My big priority is to paint my models and make a decent looking force for the tabletop. Not always the best I can possibly do, but the best I can do within the time I want to give myself. Thanks for watching!

[@Sparklpire]

Hi, I'm relatively new to the whole wargaming dealio, just got my first stater box for age of sigmar. One thing that I never really understood was all of the disdain towards people that use unpainted models... my understanding is that since this is a game and for the most part people play games to have fun and a person is having fun playing the game with the models unpainted then why try to ruin their fun by insisting that they need to have painted models?? Sorry for the mini rant but it was something that was bugging me for a while now lol

[@tabletopminions]

Some people look at it as a craft that's also a game, as opposed to a game that's also a craft. Different opinions, that's all. Thanks for watching.

[@rpigmalion2097]

When GW makes it official: painted Miniatures get +1 to hit versus unpainted miniatures. THEN.THEN people might pick up a paintbrush

[@17blaziken]

R Pigmalion that's would be some sort of "paint to win". XD

[@subaveragejoe2]

R Pigmalion All that means is that your narrative army would have to play everyone else's ITC army because builds they use in tournaments tend to be the only thing competitive players have painted.

[@TheCimbrianBull]

R Pigmalion GW implemented a similar rule for the "Fate of Konor" campaign. You score points for painting an army and you score double points for playing with the same army in the campaign.

[@subVersionband]

Ha! Ive always said painted models should get a +1 save roll

[@TheClassicWorld]

Interesting idea, but, of course, the crazy people will cry even more! I mean, you already forced them to glue them.

[@JoshuaJacobs83]

I’m new to 40K and miniatures and it never occurred to me that people wouldn’t want to paint them. I sort of thought you “had” to paint them. This is fascinating to me.

[@VampireGamer1]

I always jam pins up their legs and paint them on a block of wood. This means I can't tack them to a base and go. I just set a time every week and force myself to paint. That being said, we need to stop demanding that people paint. I have lost count of how many people have flat out refused to play because they don't want to paint.

[@GirlPainting]

i just have one rule. no unpainted model will EVER hit the gaming board for me! it simply ruins the emersion for me

[@tabletopminions]

That's my preference, too. Thanks for watching!

[@jordanwilde9226]

I won't hold anyone else to that standard, but that's how I play. If I haven't painted it, I'm not allowed to use it.

[@judealdred5237]

GirlPainting, yeah same, discipline is good

[@Squiggypie]

I follow those exact same rules. At one point, however, I gave in to my need to play bloodcrushers and fielded several Daemons gray. I am now ashamed of that point, and have returned to my original view.

[@elronman]

Would never play cause i strip everything.

[@Gaemz-ip7vl]

As complete novice in world of painting and especially minis I can say that it is very good advice because in every tutorial / video you see as almost everybody paint them assembled

[@ethans6814]

I always paint in sub assemblies. I get a drastically better result.

[@tarkhan15]

I always try but things like gun arms are so fiddly to hold on to separately.

[@tabletopbattlezone5711]

I like building it all first so I can start playing. For me, having one new unit painted each week is the reward... slowly seeing the army go from grey primer to full colored.

[@RonnocFroop]

My group just has a rule that you can only use painted models. Then if you have a game coming up it's pretty good inspiration to get painting.

[@WarpedBrushes]

This! respect the hobby!

[@ScrapMek]

I just set that as a rule for myself, I don't like to see grey or only basecoated plastic on the table, so all I can do is make sure it's never the case with my army. I keep my mouth shut though about other people's armies though, it's their own decision, but it really takes something away form games.

[@subaveragejoe2]

RonnocFroop Painting will always take second place to playing the game; grey plastic, straight primer, prime/skin/gun, tabletop, tabletop+, it's all the same really.

[@psyberwolfe]

Insist on this. It keeps the tourists out and helps build narrative play communities.

[@Livingdead170]

disagree, when I play a wargame I wanna feel immersed like you're actually witnessing this battle. unpainted models really kills that

[@padrespeaks]

This is almost exactly how I painted my space wolf scouts for SWA. I had every excuse to play with them simply assembled, but for me, assembling and filing and painting is all a hobby to me. Atom, thanks for this video.

[@311pique]

A year ago or so, I was all about "proxy minis". I always used my missile launchers as lascannons, and regular termis as librarians... Now, because I only play with friends ¡, we only play "what you see is what you have". Since I've done this and 8th edition has come out I've had the best games of 40k! Also, although I have the full Dark Imperium set, I haven't played much with the primaris, jusr because I have 3/4 of my regular Ultramarines army already painted, and I prefer 10000 times more to use painted minis. Then, after playing many games with them, I can appreciate the choice I made with a veteran sergeant with power sword and grav pistol. He did so good I promoted him to Lieutenant! (regular marine of course, no Primaris crap)

[@tabletopminions]

Sounds great. Always fun to 'promote' your figures. Thanks for watching!

[@daxthedestroyer9061]

This great advice for your second army, but if you are just starting, or like me just getting back in, get them together and get playing. It would be horribly demoralizing to have to wait that long to play. I just make sure that every week a little more is painted.

[@HeadHunterSix]

Agreed! Look at how many events launch as soon as a new game or model line or edition comes out. The whole Konor campaign for instance. Great idea if you're the sort who has the time to build and paint a unit every week - but if you don't get that kind of time, the "why bother at all" factor comes into play. Likewise with the Blood Bowl Blitz and Shadow War league thing - though at least those required fewer models.

[@Squiggypie]

I agree that it may be demoralizing, but I believe that having a large amount of models to paint before you can play would make your first game all the more enjoyable. In addition, applying rules to yourself in regards to painted models is an excellent way to practice self control and patience, which are good skills to be trained in.

[@rioploon]

We always start out with good intentions when building our models.... but life helps to convince us that we can always paint them tomorrow.

[@percyblok6014]

Why do today what can be done tomorrow?

[@leenorthway9965]

The problem here is you treat these hobbies as a single hobby, when in fact its three. Why should someone be ostracized from gaming because they don't or struggle to paint? That's like telling someone you can't paint miniatures because they don't game. You need to stop thinking of this as "the hobby" and treat it as the many hobbies it encompasses.

[@kyle857]

If you are not into painting then this probably isn't the channel for you.

[@grizzlygreenbear]

If you’re not into painting this probably isn’t the game for you. Try mage knights.

[@mydemon]

Imagine you boot up your favorite multiplayer game and all enemies are gray boxes. Wouldn't that ruin your immersion? I'm not talking non-painters should be ostracized, but I don't believe either that you should be forced playing against them.

[@CesarIsaacPerez]

Great insight as usual. I'm starting my first ever 40k army and I'm keeping all the backpacks off, to paint them better. And the mono-posse models are in sub-assembly too.

[@godofcrap42]

Oh my god, I knew this made more sense! I've been trying to paint my Tempest of Souls Nighthaunt starter army for 3 weeks now, but they're all assembled and it's been so hard to get to everything without wrecking the bits I've already painted [and it's put me off building my Myrmourn Banshees, because the models are so pretty but I know I'd have to miss bits if I paint them post-assembly].

[@StrikerVX2006]

Bit of a YMMV this one Uncle Atom but I do see your point very well with the setting goals objective linked to building and painting to promote "getting shit done" for your hobby. Me, I'll happily paint in sub-assemblies if it will be a difficult miniature to paint when it is fully completed. But if it is a miniature that will be very easy to paint once fully built (such as a Primaris Reivers with his arms out holding a pistol and combat knife), then I'll often just base paint and get around to fully painting it later when I do an "assembly line" run. Likewise since I am trying to convince friends to come back into the game (and, if I have succeeded, stay in the game for 8th Edition) they might still build first to play against me right away to see if "this is the army/armies they want to commit to" and learn the new rules at the same time for their preferred playing style. Playing with proxies for them from that point is also fine as once they've decided on an army, then they'll figure out their next expansion option. But sometimes playing with a proxy in your friendly local gaming store can be a bit of a problem: Games Workshop stores in striking distance of me really get ticked off when people bring in 3D printed proxies (painted or not) or 100% rival company miniatures (25% kitbash is fine, as long as the majority of the miniature is GW/FW stuff). Using a Coke can or something as a drop pod tends to get a pass if it isn't too blatant (or will not damages their provided battlefields) but it does get a frown. Usually now if the people I play with want to proxy, we do a GarageHammer meeting as no one wants to get booted out of a GW/Warhammer World store for playing an 3D printed proxy. In the end I use the official HQ Warhammer World painting requirement to painting as my benchmark and it tends to keep the peace at the FLGS until I fully finish my army painting.

[@GeneJordan]

I would add a tip, don't even open the box until you are ready to assemble and paint those miniatures. If you can't resist that after buying a new toy, then leave them on the sprue until you are ready. You will have less risk of losing a piece before you do assemble & paint it. Plus, if you decide later that you don't want to add that unit to your tabletop or don't want to start a new army, game, etc. then you will be able to resell them for much closer to what you paid for them and take less of a loss. Models unopened and still in shrink wrap will take the least hit, but it goes down quickly for models that are removed from the sprue, partially assembled, poorly assembled, and/or missing pieces. Primered, half-painted, or poorly painted can take a bigger dent in resale price. Which brings up other topics of when is it ok to buy used, partially assembled, and partially painted models and how to save money doing it?

[@EdAllen]

For primarily warm colored & earth toned armies, say Vikings, or Pathans, or Space Orks in some schemes, I like to assemble, do the basing work, and then spray white primer and wash/stain with a burnt umber from the craft store cheap acrylics for a shaded undercoat. Then after painting a couple of the most prominent colors, like the base flesh tone & some metals, they can show up on table top without the incompleteness being glaring and annoying, since everything is at least a shaded brown. For tabletop quality some of the leather or wood parts can be left that way or done last. Payne's gray works well instead of the brown when cooler colors predominate, like metal armors, or a mix of the two can also work. It's not much more work than assembling, and looks a lot better than plain black or white primer. Paint over this base as if it was a dark gray or black primer as time is found.

[@FastCavalry]

I tend to have 3-5 units on the go at any one time so I have a variety of different stages to work on depending on time/mood but I;m not racking up shelves of grey models that I feel I'm never going to get done. Balances nicely with having new stuff available quickly, motivating me to keep painting and giving a sense of progress to the army project.

[@LCliffhanger]

the way i send to think is, why not just paint before u assemble? if you paint everything before putting it together you're less likely to paint things u dont wanna paint, also building it can make it harder to paint some areas, i had a few miniatures that clipped together and didn't need glue so whenever i encountered that problem i just took of some pieces and painted what i needed to paint, and then i put it back together

[@bohdankryvushenko2542]

Also you can just print out the image of the desired miniature from the box on paper. And play it (for reference), or simply simulate the clashes of certain units on a piece of paper, or even in your head. It will look like this: "Squad 1 is advancing from 16" distance to 11" to enemy unit 1, so that his weapon would have X2 shots" dicing in the process, enemy squad 1 - 5 out of 8 models left.

[@zandosdwarf-king]

I built my Aether-Khemist and Arkanaut Frigates in subassemblies. It didn't prevent me in any way to play them ;). And I'd prefer to play vs gray army. or even halfway assembled models over pill bottles any time.

[@Panczekolada]

Well, for me it's "i'd rather play with/against grey plastic rather than half-assed/unskilled paintjob or just primed dudes. Although I'm a pathetic "I hate painting" dude, so I guess I am part of the problem. I just hate lazy solutions that only serve to boost one's ego ("oh, look - I have at least primed my models!" or "heh, I have mine painted" when he only used sloppy bases just to meet the tournament req of at least 4 colours used).

[@greghendry1520]

Another mental trick I use for smaller scale games is to deliberatly pick out campaign/league teams of models I don't have painted, then set myself the goal of having them painted before they can be used. Its why my deadzone v1 kickstarters are fully painted while most of my old warhammer is still grey.

[@keithmiller511]

I appreciate what you're saying here Atom. I have 3 armies and I've purchased 90% of it second hand (meaning they are largely assembled for me and not painted/poorly painted). This has been bitter sweet. I got to play all my armies right away, but it is a struggle to know what to paint and to get motivated. Right now my painting motivation is 50% shame and 50% hobby fun haha.

[@danielwiggins97]

I started a space wolf army over a year ago and found myself getting nowhere. What I did was built the army in sub assemblies and then drilled holes into the changeable areas. I then magnetised these, so rather than worrying about what the model has I can swap and choose between what I have. It makes it a lot better as it feels like you're playing with more variety, as well as having more options to paint!

[@derpimusmaximus8815]

For me, the issue is that, having made the decision to get back to hobbying after a 20-ish year hiatus, repainting all my old stuff presents me with an enormous workload that I never had while collecting, because early teenage me could only afford miniatures in bulk from the starter sets(and I didn't want to play the armies in those, anyway), so I was never faced with more than 10 at a time.

[@tablegoblin]

I completely agree with this. I am someone who buys these figures mainly to paint and play with my son at home. And since that is how I do it, I want to make sure that my paint jobs are as good as I can get them. Though I am still learning the new techniques that are out there, it is important to me to have them all painted before getting them on a table.

[@GeneJordan]

I too am very particular about removing flashing from models prior to painting them. The gaps may or may not get filled, depending upon the model. A character model will likely have the gaps filled. A rank and file troop choice, not so much unless it is very visible. I also fall in the drill the end of the barrels side of modeling. Even for rank and file troops. I think it takes it up to the next level versus the time involved before painting it.

[@p_serdiuk]

1) Make screenshots at GW website of models you bought and would want to field. 2) Cut the model outlines out in Paint (or whatever) and print a sufficient number of them on a sheet of paper, leaving an empty rectangle below the outline. Cut them out of the sheet with scissors. 3) Print some 25mm wide circles. Cut them out. 4) Glue the model outlines to their "bases", by folding that rectangle at the bottom and gluing it to the base. 5) Voila, you have a paper proxy army that you can test on the table. Optionally, print it on dense paper and use carton as bases for more durability.

[@subaveragejoe2]

Serdiuk Paul that sounds like work. I think I'll just hit 'em with three different spray primers and call it 3 color standard.

[@KollectingKaos]

Many years ago I was in a war game group that had a system in place for unpainted armies. A base coated miniature without detail would be allowed with no modifications to the rules. A miniature that was primed with some paint would get a -1 modifier a model with only primer would get a -2 and an assembled unpainted miniature or unit would get a -3. Yes we did have people that would roll so badly that once the modifiers were taken it would get wiped out. I remember one of my early units with primer breaking and running when they lost moral to a well painted unit and fleeing right off the edge of the table. This happened despite having a highly detailed command unit with a standard barer (see next paragraph). To encourage people to paint their models a base coated miniature with some detailing (shading or highlights) would get a +1 modifier and a fully painted miniaturize would get a plus two. If your army was fully painted with a highly detailed command unit to include a standard barer the entire army would get an additional plus one. Once these rules were implemented we started seeing more and more partially or fully painted armies with some units that the owner would designate as untested that had little or no paint. The army that I remember having the best paint job (not mine btw) was fully detailed with a command unit and a standard barer that the owner would add a small streamer to each time he won a battle. We were all shocked when he turned up one day with a full army of unpainted miniatures and told us he had to start over as he had sold his previous army (turns out he didn't but that is another story. The way he proceeded would be if a unit did well in battle he would work on that unit the coming week so the next battle they would show more experience. Later on this was adopted by other players and we would often end up with a mix of painted/partial paint/primed mini's in an army, but no one would show up with an unprimed army as no one wanted that dreaded -3 to every die roll.

[@soundwave810]

Another alternative is to use poster tack to put them together BEFORE you paint them in subassemblies. Granted you have to use a bit to make sure it stays together but it lets me play while in the process of working on my models at least an hour a day at a time.

[@iceaxeminiatures7694]

For me, I always play it painted, which makes me a bit of a rarity in the local warmachine community (though I will say it took me over a year to get to that point). I, personally, don't feel the need to punish myself or avoid temptation to put an unpainted minis on the table, but I do find building and priming a whole bunch of minis to be a problem for a different reason. When you have a large queue of unpainted miniatures sitting on the shelf, I find it hugely demotivating. Seeing a ton of primed models just sitting there, staring at you, makes you feel like you will never finish. It also makes it hard to start new projects, because any time you go to paint a model, there are dozens of other models sitting there ready that you aren't painting, so there is an opportunity cost to starting a new project -- by painting my Winter Guard, I'm not painting my Iron Fangs. Leaving them unassembled helps, because if they're sitting brand new in a box, they're a little more out of sight and out of mind.

[@xnax1993]

I've come up with a system where the unit I thought did the best in a game is put aside in my painting queue. Only when the models are fully painted will they get back on the field. So far, this has worked better for my motivation than anything else I've tried.

[@leostarrs-cunningham8576]

I like your thinking! But that's probably because I find it impossible to field an unpainted army - for some reason it just really really bothers me. I'm not so bothered if someone else is fielding something painted or not, but I think it does help me stay motivated when painting my own army.

[@alastairsmith2173]

I can relate to this. So I collect 40k Space Wolves. I started collecting and building them about a year ago, and only started painting just over six months ago. I started painting because I got a Land Raider tank that needed to be painted on the inside before assembling. The necessitated that I went out and got the proper paints and stared. Its been great I now have 40 troops assembled and painted and 7 tanks. most of them are looking great (some not finished). The thing is I probably would never have started painting them if it was not for the Land Raider than needed to be painted before assembly. Once I got into the painting I found that it was far more satisfying than the assembly.

[@joemoe974]

Our group has the same rule as RonnocFroop. No unpainted models allowed on the tabletop. Granted, we've been gaming together for a long time so everyone has built up a pretty large collection of painted miniatures so it's not an issue like it would be for newer groups or a new player coming into the hobby.

[@cwoyce]

I have found this is me 100%. Like I have gotten to the point where once the mini hits the table it is basically "finished". So if I'm trying to use a piece, it has to be painted before I can put it on the table or I won't ever feel the need to finish it, unless of course there is a tournament or something coming up that requires all your stuff be painted.

[@holden88]

I think you see people buying and assembling armies because more than anything they want to play the game. Most people have good intentions of painting their armies but painting an army takes patience, dedication and time. Frankly, as a person who is passionate about aesthetics and the visual presentation aspect of a game (it drives me banana sandwich when I see medieval cottages on a 40k table) I'd much rather see my opponent field an unpainted force versus a heavily proxied army. In fact, if someone tried to play with pill bottles and unsuitable figures from other games - I'd probably decline to play. Finally. I never found sub-assemblies worth it. Any hard to reach areas by nature are also hard to see.

[@jakub_paints6775]

Exactly what I was thinking - thanks for writing it instead of myself :D

[@ethanphilpot7643]

Sorry to be a pedantic fuck, but medieval cottages actually aren't all that out of place in 40k. There are plenty of worlds in the 40k setting that not only are behind technologically, but some even set back to the stone ages. The rulebooks even state that feudal worlds are a thing. So whenever you see terrain like that, assume that they are fighting on just such a planet because they ARE present in the setting (not every game needs to have Gothic architecture)

[@jakub_paints6775]

That is actually true - the Crimson Fists home planet is a feudal world with knights and all.

[@ethanphilpot7643]

Honestly I think it was a very smart move on GW's part. Having a setting that includes so many different environments means that you could play on nearly any kind of terrain and it'd still fit in the fluff. Well played GW. Well played

[@hakeera1908]

I don't mind seeing cottages on a 40k table, as long as it's properly themed, however i don't want to see a single cottage when everything else is bastions and barricades from the 40k line, that's just odd and out of place

[@BarokaiRein]

Just got into the hobby couple of weeks ago, my favorite kit so far is the older chaos knights kit where you choose literally every single piece of the knight and it's a blast to build, however I just instinctively didn't attach the knight to the mount because after painting just few minis earlier I knew it would be basically impossible to paint the model if it was complete. Same goes for a lot of models with shields, just easier to paint separately. Now I'm not actually into playing at least yet, I'm just in it for the painting atm.

[@Cybrdra6on]

I have this problem. When I play with others, it motivates me to paint them. I think I enjoy building slightly more than painting. The only reason I do disassembly on some models is ease of painting. Some elites re impossible to paint completely assembled. I admit right now I have way more grey new minis than painted. I agree with proxy to learn a game/unit, but the minis and scenery is really what does it for me in the hobby, so I don't often proxy. Good ideas on ways to "force" oneself to get things done.

[@Cybrdra6on]

Subassembly not disassembly.

[@linzenmeyer]

Im not really into "playing" the game (Probably because I've never played it before) I'm more into the hobby side of it all. Everything I do is in sub-assembly and thats just the way I like it.

[@kingsnogaryen6292]

The issue I am having is the models I bought on ebay are assembled AND primed... but the weapons (storm shield in particular) obscures A LOT of the model and fine details. Gonna be a nightmare to paint...

[@mleet3125]

I played a bit while in high school back in the lat 90's. I pretty much stopped while in the military and even got rid of my pieces. However, I'm looking at getting back into 40k since there's about half a dozen people I work with that play. Between that, and somewhat obsessively watching your videos I'll be getting back into it. So I've put several things on my Christmas wish list and we'll see what I get from there. My conundrum with assembling an army and painting before play is this: itemization. Sure I glued this guy with a heavy bolter, but maybe I have points to spare to make it a las cannon....too late, it's assembled already. So then I'd be stuck either not getting the composition I want, having to buy another box of units and re-painting, or attempting to remove the weapon and color match.

[@Pegwarmers]

During 40k 2nd Edition my buddy had a trio of Lego Horse that stood in for a squad of Tyranid Warriors for a while (also we were poor high school kids and models are expensive).

[@lyletorok]

My local games group has some quite heavy handed house rules which actually really " encourage painting" , even to just a basic level . Its -1 AV on units if more than 1 model in a squad is "plastic grey ". This is based around the fact that It's really not a lot of effort to rattle can a unit . "Especially with modern base coating colour primers." It makes a big difference to the look on the table., and builds some tolerance for hoard armies as they don't normally care too much about AV, but when you're facing an army of unpainted points pricey primaris its going to add up and encourage at least base coating.

[@williamwinn948]

But why? isn't it enough that somebody is spending a lot of money at that store for that model, and showing up willing to play?

[@and280]

That's exactly my struggle right now, I want to play, but I really don't want to play with place holders... yet I really need to paint in subassemblies or I just know I will regret later.

[@Archkyrie11]

My problem is I don't have the time to paint being in college and all and I want to just play. I'd much prefer to play painted(and I do have fully painted armies) but sometimes life just gets in the way and I want to play the game I love rather than spend that time just painting

[@Afr069-s8l]

I try my hardest to make sure that my models are at least primed and base-painted before I use them. This is because I'm in school for too long to take the time to paint non-stop . Once I get out of school though, I'm going balls-to-the-wall with my painting to catch up. Especially with my Infinity models.

[@meow999meow]

One of the problems I ran into restarting my hobby, is not having the proper tools/paint to start painting. I've been staring at my grey army for the past weeks waiting on my paint to be delivered. They're coming in next week! (Hopefully)

[@mutantgoblin1402]

Blue tac exists, many people use it to hold a mini together to play with at my store.

[@vandenburg123]

Mutant Goblin and magnets! just bluetacked my ethieral together aswell, can't see it at all.

[@fallenswan1670]

I realised some time ago (=weeks, months or so), that if you want try what kind of army you would or would not like to play... why not just buy bunch of bases and add paper on top of them with text like "Error: graphics of "Werewolf" not found", and play with these, and afterwards when you know what you like or want, then buy the stuff. (It just happen that I am focusing now in Frostgrave, meaning, that I really do not need testing in this way.... but at least I can use monsters what I do not have yet!)

[@honzabalak3462]

The captain is one of few marines that I completely painted. Though I had to convert it. The original cape and iron halo looked awful. So I decided to cut it off and also change the helmet. It ended up looking really great.

[@oboylefamily1869]

Great topic. While I am not ultra competitive, I wouldn't show up at a club with a unpainted army. Very good advice about the proxy method, as I use this and most players are cool with it. From game play, logically it doesn't affect if unpainted, but it does affect the enjoyment. When my kids were younger and getting into the hobby, they assembled and played at home. BUT once they painted, even if not great, their enjoyment went up. The same goes for terrain too. For new comers, I get that playing quickly is key, and allowing them a mulligan at the beginning is fine. They just need to be encouraged to paint up, one unit at a time.

[@lunahula]

This is a big contributing factor to why you see so many assembled or just primed miniatures on ebay or second hand miniature outlets. Wish I had a local basement :

[@scott17601]

Interesting idea. I could see making a cardstock proxy for the table while you finish the models.

[@thehangarbay]

While good advice for some, there is a large subset of gamers out there for whom time is the major constraint. The harsh reality is for a lot of gamers, painting is time-consuming, tedious, takes a heckuva lot of hours to get good at and ultimately isn't very rewarding for the time spent. If the choice comes to spending the next three months painting during their spare time or playing during their spare time, the grey and silver armies are just gonna to be a fact of life and real schedules.

[@dadefrost2059]

The Hangar Bay I kinda agree. I'm seeing alot of both arguements (painted armies look better/help narrative/are more immersive) vs (why should I have to paint them, everything should be prepainted anyway, etc) but I think both are true. I'm been *terrible* for playing with half painted armies, loads of it grey, some of it undercoated, select random models are painted to completion. I'm always disappointed with myself more than anything. I've always been more into painting than playing, but I get so distracted, I wanna be elbow deep in my next project or whatever. Uncle atom has been really helpful for me getting things done. And I really don't think he's the judgemental type, I think he's more like my thinking. If you don't want to paint, don't. But if you do want to paint, why don't you? You know what I mean?

[@thehangarbay]

I do. But I also think we tend to oversell the painting aspect of the hobby: if it were enjoyable, it seems a little strange that so many need to force themselves to get it done. What I wouldn't do for a Bob Ross method to bang out squads rapidly.

[@gigartina]

And then there's the other side of that spectrum, where I am. I love to paint. Whole armies are a blast. I also like to read 40k novels (particularly Dan Abnett and Sandy Mitchell). I like people who like to play. But I don't particularly like to play the game.

[@jamesvalentine2845]

Building also takes time practice and hours...soooooooo

[@stump182]

Just starting out in the hobby and your channel has been invaluable. Thanks Uncle Atom!

[@wingknutt1130]

Any recommendations for somebody who loves to play 40K, but lives in a small town now, with nobody to really play with? While I've played a lot of the PC 40K games, none of them really give me the satisfaction of the turn-based, tabletop version.

[@alexwilliams6022]

wingknutt I don't know but if you get an answer let me know!

[@mutantgoblin1402]

Get on local forums and facebook groups, see if you can find people locally

[@joshcooper7]

is there any way to play on internet? like skype or something

[@warmagic9312]

Best bet is to build two armies and play against friends until one is inspired to make their own army. Rinse and repeat until you have enough to form a club.

[@stefanw6665]

You could look into the game thats featured in this video kzbin.info/www/bejne/nGOQo4SBgL-cfNk Tabletop simulator. Frankly, no pc game can give you the same as the real deal but thats the closest there is

[@VecksSeeker]

I see the good in sub-assemblies. They overall make painting end result better but I find that being unable to use said models in game really kills it for me. I tried KoW using base bases as proxies and I never ended up even finishing them. Playing with wooden squares killed all motivation I had. I find my motivation to paint in seeing the painted models on the table.

[@OneShard]

My painting goes in 2 stages, a 3 colour scheme batch paint with washers so they look table ready then detailing and highlighting to finish.

[@scurvy786]

I have rule that I don't play with unpainted mini's and I don't believe in rushing a "table top standard" army. I guess I'm pretty patient but once they are painted nice they are gonna be like that forever so i think its worth putting in the time, especially for 40k minis because they are so expensive, painting should add value to them.

[@davidcashin1894]

Dear Minions, love your channel...never had this problem. I have to have my troops painted. This is partially because painting is probably my favorite part of the hobby. But here is another philosophical point. I am not afraid to sell off armies I don't love. Paint and play and if you don't like how the army plays or don't love the paint job, sell them and start again or start on something else. Selling a slightly "off" army pays for the next one, or at least gives you the seed money for the next project.

[@chavvydave1]

When I was first in the hobby some 20 years ago I was utterly guilty of only ever running grey/silver armies, I'd assemble them right away and then would eagerly play without ever bothering to paint, as I hated painting and always seemed to gravitate towards horde armies such as Skaven and Imperial Guard. After a 10 year hiatus I got back into the hobby a year ago but this time round I find I have a lot less time to play but more time to paint, and am actually enjoying the mindfulness of the act of painting, when I get chance. And much prefer my armies being finished on the tabletop! Of course the problem there is that I still assemble them first eager to see the finished piece should I have the chance for a game before I come to painting them, and always regret that decision! 😭

[@ArBee123]

Back when I very first started collecting 40k, I suggested painting the models before painting them to one of the guys in the local GW store (this was back when they had more than one staff) and he said not to do that. No real reason or anything, just total shut down

[@jasonfrazier422]

I tried the subassembly thing. It doesn't work for me. I have a squad or Gears that has been in pieces and partially painted for 4 years. Meanwhile I have painted the fully assembled figs. For me it helps to have an accountability buddy. A friend who gets on your case about painting your figs.

[@tabletopminions]

Accountability buddies are a great idea. Turns out I've been doing that for awhile and hadn't even really thought about it. Thanks for watching!

[@nottelling2976]

I have the opposite problem. I am painting all my models before I play and it's stopped me from playing for about 20 years. :) I bought my first miniature in 1997. It's not 2017 and I've never played a single game. It's not just for that reason obviously since that was me as a kid versus me in college and grad school and Army and job now but I'm on my way. I've got a LOT of the army painted though. This video has really made me think though... damn I need to just play. I can paint the rest afterwards. I might not even like this game anymore. I've got 8th ed. It might be time just to play for the fun versus the fulfillment of having a fully painted army.

[@GreatChickenGod]

i'll admit, I hate painting, but when Armies on Parade starts rolling around, I do try to take part in it, and that's when I usually paint. for the models that I have with hard to reach spots, I use sticky tack to keep them together till I finally paint them

[@voidwraithprime8521]

You're 100% right, Atom. At this point, I pretty much only allow myself to play with painted models, and because I've recently moved and have a newborn baby girl, I've basically played...hmmm...ONE game of 40k in the past year as I add to and paint up my Blood Angel army. I'm practicing what this video is preaching, but because of additional life reasons, it's REALLY hurt my playtime. :)

[@davidm5421]

When I started to play Flames of War, I went to a nifty site called "junior general" and printed off some top-down images of the soldiers I wanted. It's a lot easier to paint 100pts of T34s than it is to paint 100pts of Strelkovy, so I put paper images on my infantry stands. As I got the figures painted, I replaced the 2d images with 3-d painted figures.

[@elducces]

Always used to play with the three colour rule. Used to to refuse to play someone unless the figures were at least partially painted

[@vcxlll]

Hey uncle atom! I use poster putty to hold the subassemblies together while test playing them. In that way I've doomed myself to have a bunch of overly assembled/subassembled models that are already playable, and I find it difficult to get around to actually paint my boyz.

[@liamrobinson3]

I never paint with subassemblies because I like converting and convert the model before I paint them. I also don't have the problem with playing with plastic armies because I refuse to use unpainted minis and I've only ever played once with unpainted minis and that was when I only had 2 painted models in my collection.

[@devononair]

It's a unique way of looking at the issue, and I like it. I thought you might say that you could play with a half built model (why not?) but it would be so ugly that you would soon finish it. That would be an alternative way of doing it, I suppose, but your idea is probably better! Plus of course most people would object to a half built model on the battlefield.

[@ps5622]

Well, I mostly agree to this idea uncle atom, but if you already have an assembled army that is unpainted, what I do is I play with it and at the end of the game, if one unit /model has done some really good job or done something epic in general, I paint it for the next game (I like to say the model earns its paintjob)

[@hobbyhuman]

Buttery as ever. Your microphone setup must be awesome.

[@tabletopminions]

It's not bad, but not super high-end. Thanks for watching!

[@KentuckyFriedGamers]

I have a standing rule that if it's not painted, I can't play with it. I do proxy things like you mentioned as well.

[@toddsperling2047]

This is why I'm moving to painting boardgame models like Blood Rage. The GW models are so complex and fragile that break every time I transport and use them on the table top. The CMON ASOIAF models are all single piece as well and look great on the Kick-starter, which is easier to paint and use in a game.

[@emyink7575]

Our house rule on unpainted model was (for 1000/2000 pts WFB) if the opposite team as a full painted army he gets 20% extra points in reinforcements and or magic items

[@Mecha82]

Proxies before buying actually models are also great way to make sure that if you don't like playing that army after all you haven't wasted money to buy expensive models for that army. Also I always make sure that my models are least primed before I play with them because it looks better than bare gray plastic/resin or bare metal.

[@SkHATEy]

I play AoS with my wife. When we got hooked we bought a lot of models (four armies worth) over just a few weeks, built them and started playing. While I agree with uncle adam, we wouldn't had our first game played yet if we'd followed this advice. I'm working my way through our collection unit by unit so our games feature more and more painted models. Btw my wife is a boardgamer so she would play with cardboard counters for all she cares :p

[@Astavar]

I can really tell, where you are coming from, Atom. And I think, that it has a true ring to it, but in my case, it really is the other way round. I started play last week with some grey, and partially painted models of Orks. I loved the play that much, that I continued painting these guys - because I really hate the grey armageddon-dusted look of unpainted models. So I rather like to play with fewer models than with unpainted. And a good game motivates me to painting. :)

[@Spacefrisian]

My tip for those who do not like to paint, get 1 black spray can and a colour spray can from a cheap store (1 dollar, pound, euro or so), Pre assemble the models, than Spray the weapons black and the models in colour, put them together...bam instant 2 colour models that dont look like crappy lazy grey. All in the same time as you would need to assemble that model twice. Make sure you put the cans in hot water for 15 minutes before spraying.

[@ptitbass]

I can't fully agree with you. I experienced both technique.. With and without subassembly. For new players (at least for me)... Its not really motivating to build in subassembly because you can't play right now and painting an army of 2000 pts one shoot take a lots of time. Second, it give more hassle painting seperately then when its already built up. You have to cover all the "to be glued" areas and sometimes when time come to glue you can put glue on the paint by mistake. Also its hard to prime.. You have to move around all the pieces, you will have to keep track of each pieces... Making difficult to do batch priming. You will also put paint in place where eyes cannot see anyway. You say that you can paint area difficult to reach.. That may be true in some scenarios but i tried with an intercessors where the dude have the gun on its chest. Honestly... It was not really harder in the end. I just ended up wasting time painting at areas i wouldn't paint normally and got the problems i talked over. In fact its a trade off. But that my opinion. My suggestion is try with and without and see for yourself what you like the most.

[@punkhippe]

As a super noob i knew from the begging i was not gonna ever feild a grey force. Its a lot of work especially with orks but it just feels so wrong to play a grey blob.

[@ciaranspalding3993]

You know, i have painted in subassembly before with tricky models, but I have never thought of using it as a painting tool to help me get my army painted...makes soooo much sense! I am totally going to try this with my new Salamanders army so I don't end up in the same place i was with my tyranids with about 5k pts out of 6.5k pts not painted! (slowly getting through the Tyranids)

[@jessclark9725]

I had a small deathsquad of marines that I wanted to do a weird original paint scheme on, and match it to a custom chapter, but I wanted to be able to use them before i dedicated them to test mechanics. My game shop had a no unpainted minis rule, so I did a super basic ultramarines paint job (black blue and metalic, and a quick dry brush). I could proxy when I wanted to play weird shit, and they didn't look good, but they looked better than grey or primer. Plot twist, in the end, I just redetailed them and kept them ultramarines, but I think the general practice was a good choice.

[@CrowbarrCreations]

Man I love this guys voice

[@robertmuggeridge4736]

When i worked for GW we wouldnt let an army be ayed with in store unless it was at least 3 colour painted (bases and metals) gave the kids a bit of a push to get things done. Or only build 1 unit at a time and paint give yourself stumbling blocks to force you forward.

[@npwroblewski]

I feel like there's really 2 types of wargamers. Those who find the greatest reward in having the best army and those who enjoy the journey more than the reward. Personally I'm always thirsty for the best paint job and I guess I'm lucky there, but all pushing around bottle caps has ever done was make me want to paint. On a side note, pushing around models with nothing but primer on them helps me come up with paint schemes and really helps me visualize the models in how they fit into a play style and narrative. I guess I should be thankful I'm generally motivated enough to trudge through the labor.

[@capnyb9597]

Golem Arcana crossed that point 2 years ago. The figs were too expensive and control system for AR was proprietary and failed.

[@gerald.bweaverii6162]

I have been painting in sub assemblies since starting the hobby in 2nd addition. The results are clearly top of the par.

[@aidandegg4176]

Very much agree - just getting back into 40k after a hiatus since 2nd/3rd ed. I will be proxying plenty of stuff - always have. I am a terrible painter but I get my stuff painted and play with them. Many thanks for this video, keep 'em coming.