The Big Think FAILS on Antinatalism

[@LawrenceAnton]

Did you see this Big Think video? 😅

[@GeneralArmorus]

nop

[@FactsCountdown]

We have added years to life but not life to years

[@kalki0273]

Amen!

[@nothing563019]

and it in america life is such a disaster now that in 2019 life expectancies started to decline. So we cant even say that

[@YassenChapkanov]

Speak for yourself. It's within your control to improve the meaning and quality of your life

[@FactsCountdown]

@@YassenChapkanov then everyone can become billionaire

[@YassenChapkanov]

@@FactsCountdown That's a prime example of non sequitur

[@purplemonsoon8376]

It’s funny how they think that living longer means that things are better!

[@TempehLiberation]

The thing is, implicit in this video is the selfishness of having children. This is all about the potential parents concern, because the nonexistent person is in no danger, has no needs or wants and can't benefit from coming into existence. Therefore, this all has to be framed as "can your action be interpreted as a way of hope?" or some such nonsense. Imagine explaining to a terminally ill child that they were a product of "hope" - makes all the pain go away eh?

[@LawrenceAnton]

Hope 🌈

[@2l84me8]

Wolves are always angry when the sheep aren’t having children.

[@user-gu9yq5sj7c]

I'm glad Kavernacle called out Elon Musk for being obsessed with pro-natalism because he wanted people to breed slaves for corporations like his. Even Christine in this video said many people want people to breed to force them to fund social security. They admitted they want to breed kids to be slaves and for selfish reasons, but they are blind to that and still shove pro-natalism. Also, the problem is with the bad and selfish system which is man-made. Change the system. Watch Childfree Kimberly on selfish reasons why parents have kids.

[@d6wave]

EXACTLY.

[@LouisGedo]

4:43 She's cherry picking........ She's failing to understand that life is also getting worse in many ways, including but not limited to increasing resource wars and the threat of global thermonuclear war........ which never existed until the last several decades

[@bremblepate-oc2vc]

We live in a world where if you don't have well into the six figure range in liquid capital, you child can be denied care by a health insurance company and forced to die a slow, miserable death that is completely preventable - and here's a key element: I was billed 70K for a month of IV treatment for my child. The health insurance company fought it, but I eventually won. They paid $1,500 and I paid $2,000 which is the out of pocket max. This is a broken, awful country in a broken world.

[@user-gu9yq5sj7c]

Also, new and powerful evils are being invented and normalized. And not having regulation on them. One example, watch Ready to Glare on people using AI to make p0rn of real children and people without their consent. Watch Jake Tran on people being scammed of money from AI deep fakes that sound so realistic. And there's many more.

[@fixinfkinsandwiches6183]

@@bremblepate-oc2vcNot sure if it costing 70k is justified. I agree that the world is greedy and messed up; but to be honest, paying 2k isn’t that much and your child was treated. Sure the insurance companies are horrible and they shouldn’t have tried to deny you, however, justice was given because they lost.

[@xx_amongus_xx6987]

Just say you don't like life and move on, no need to fabricate stories in order to trick others into agreeing with you. Resource wars have actually decreased recently, and global nuclear war isn't as close compared to what it has been at in the past. The world is getting better and will continue to get better- human history proves this to us.

[@KyleEvra-15]

You are missing the point but of course Natalists like you don't think. 😂

[@Oughtnottobe-q2e]

I think many pronatalists must have incredibly low standards for what constitutes 'progress' when you consider the sheer extent of horror and suffering that's taken place on this planet.

[@SuperGlue4321]

Their standards for progess is 'not dying'. It's not anchored to anything either. Just a free floating idea of existence for the sake of existence. Why do you want an icecream, because I want an icecream 😂

[@LifeStrike2030]

They are privileged and call their privilege progress.

[@shiv_ring]

The billions of people that exist now once were those "new things" that co-created the status quo. Why do so many parents think their children will change the world? Another distasteful burden put onto someone that never had a say in it and is expected to appreciate the "gift of life" or shut it. 😪

[@AnonymousWon-uu5yn]

she clearly has not suffered bad enough to be able to understand why forcing someone else into this extremely unfair and cruel existence that they might hate to exist in is an extremely evil thing to do.

[@Stevelives13]

No she's just like most people, she thinks she'd prefer to be alive than dead, not realizing she had to be in existence to think like that. The best thing to say is ask them if they have any regrets about not existing 100, or 1000 or 10,000 years ago. People back then wanted to stay alive just as much.

[@furiousdestroyah9999]

There's 2 types of people: People that have suffered and would never inflict the same pain of existence onto their potential child And People that have rose tinted glasses, who haven't suffered that much if at all, who say "f*ck today, think tomorrow"

[@Stevelives13]

@@furiousdestroyah9999 Some people are just delusional and can't see the overall grand scheme of things. They just accept suffering as inevitable like we don't have a choice and think that any life is a blessing.

[@SuperGlue4321]

I think it is simply lack of awareness. She doesn't even acknowledge her own sufferings. Sure she has suffered things she won't want to. But she is totally fine imposing them on others if that seems to benefit her in anyway at the current narrow moment. She doesn't give a flying fck if the person she created dies of cancer, she just wants a cuddly little doll she can enjoy for a little bit. These people think only about babies and how cute they are, not little humans who will grow up and have their own lives. Can't even think beyond their hormonal signals. This is pure ignorance and it doesn't even know that it's evil. The worst kind there is.

[@xx_amongus_xx6987]

@@Stevelives13 "The best thing to say is ask them if they have any regrets about not existing 100, or 1000 or 10,000 years ago." To answer your question, if I could only exist in those times, then yes I would obviously want to exist in them and would regret not doing so.

[@nothing563019]

Life in America actually hasnt gotten better. Since the 1970's the cost of living has risen by 15x while wages have only risen 7x. Life expectancy actually dropped in 2019. People on depression and anxiety meds at an all time high. suicides at an all time high. Drug overdoses at an all time. Violent crime still the highest among developed countries. Big think is just feel good non sense.

[@joejackson7601]

Correct, and ppl will continue to justify imposing birth...

[@sodalitia]

At 1:10 she said "There's a sense of fatalism - a fear that bringing someone new to the world might be a bad thing". Right of the bat she demonstrates her misunderstanding of the term "fatalism". Great start.

[@dankmemes7658]

Fatalism suggests that you're doomed to suffer, so why would that be a good thing to force that on another conscious being?

[@sodalitia]

@@dankmemes7658 That's not what fatalism means.

[@dankmemes7658]

@@sodalitia is fatalism not the idea that events are predetermined. Is suffering not predetermined? If suffering is predetermined does that not mean people are doomed to suffer?

[@sodalitia]

@@dankmemes7658 Is human not a featherless biped? Is chicken not a featherless biped? If fried chicken is delicious, does that not mean I am doomed to "enjoy" the fallacies contrived by your birdy brain?

[@KyleEvra-15]

I rolled my eyes 🙄 so far up my head at what she was saying.

[@playonwords55]

The Procreational Ponzi Scheme.

[@JohnnyAngel777]

*_"Life is a gamble at terrible odds. If it were a bet, you wouldn't take it."_* - Tom Stoppard

[@say_ten_666]

Life is an STD with a 100% infection fatality rate.

[@lovethyneibor22736]

we are honestly tired of having a "stake" for the bright future which never happens ... we want some happiness NOW instead of it being in the future ... can someone give us happiness NOW pls?

[@lovethyneibor22736]

she is the type of individual who would look at a broke person and tell them "just be positive bro, things are gonna get better ..."

[@abhinavt789]

She would look at a broke person and tell them to look at a more broke person and be grateful for not being more broke.

[@txlyons2937]

Their other favorite line is, "God will provide!"

[@krishnak7]

@@txlyons2937 Other favotire line is, " Be glad you are alive"

[@phantom_mserafi]

🤣🤣🤣

[@KyleEvra-15]

She's also the type of individual to be like "Go get Therapy it will be okay!"

[@hhjhj393]

People are so horrible today. I am trying to buy a home to live in and everyone has been insanely scammy to me, and there isn't anything I can do about it. They are basically protected by law to scam me and there aren't any homes for sale by owner in my area.

[@KyleEvra-15]

It sucks that scammers are protected by Law the Corruption runs deep red in this World.

[@_aconite_cj_]

Don't bring someone new into the world because pain and cruelty is inevitable. And they don't deserve that pain. How hard is it to understand this?

[@tobiasbundgar7063]

Yeah. People want to live in their inner world. Its like they Are ignoring this and pretendig for as long as they can😢

[@Florida_man.2]

And they will say almost anything to justify reproducing ... It's sad.

[@lovethyneibor22736]

meanwhile countless of people are STARVING to death

[@Henry-w8v]

You have been brainwashed out of your birthright.

[@SuperGlue4321]

I mean it seriously can't be any simpler. I explained to my cousin the other day that if you have a child, they grow up and move to a different country and work and live there, it is simply a different person that has nothing to do with you. They have problems and issues they deal with to exist now and have nothing to offer to you. Why would you create this? You just want a random person to just exist and suffer for no rhyme or reason. She said I believe in independence. Lol. These people say they don't want anything but they only create children as an insurance plan for their old age but will virtue signal about their selflessness till the end.

[@Stevelives13]

I see zero evidence that the future is getting better and its entirely down to the effects of overpopulation. Not only in the environmental case but also in society. Someone born 70 years ago might not have had the internet and might have faced greater social inequality, but the also had far better opportunities for being able to support themselves and own a home and have security to retire in their old age. The people who believe that some saviour of mankind is going to be born to fix all our problems make as much sense as someone who is broke and in debt deciding that they're going to gamble on their future finances by selling all the possessions, getting a loan and spending it all on lottery tickets.

[@batmann2723]

Seriously, it blows my mind how many discussions I see on things like the housing market and job scarcity and people scratch their heads and go "what's going on? Is it that no one wants to work?" And it seems so incredibly obvious that all of these problems come down to the fact that there are too many damn people. We keep expanding exponentially because capitalism but can't seem to grasp the ramifications of it.

[@KateeAngel]

Inequality is only rising, and billionaires get richer while everyone else is getting poorer. Who in their right mind would argue that in the situation like that kids will have better life in the future???

[@Stevelives13]

@@batmann2723 Most people are unaware of what the current population is and how much/fast it has grown in the last few decades. People keep saying we need to build more houses, like they can just find the room. Then theres the idiots that don't grasp for with more people you need more roads, shops, schools, hospitals, more fresh water, more food, more electricity ...

[@Stevelives13]

@@KateeAngel I think it was George Carlin who said the average American sees themselves as temporarily displaced millionaires. Thats why they vote for policies that only benefit the rich. People are overly optimistic of their likely future.

[@furiousdestroyah9999]

I do agree that overpopulation is a problem, however wealth inequality is an infinitely bigger issue. It doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things whether there's 1 billion of people or 10 billion when the rich hold 99.99% of the resources available, we're still gonna be struggling to survive regardless of numbers, while if the rich were just taken out of the equation then things even out a lot more

[@finaldestination41]

Parents r selfish af they brought us here without our permission 😒

[@krishnak7]

Though I am an antinatalist, I would say your argument doesn't hold any logic. It is impossibl for parents to get permisson of their kids before giving birth. But the best the parents can do is to make sure that their kids don't regret for coming into the existance.

[@finaldestination41]

@krishnak7 u missed the whole point 🤦

[@joejackson7601]

Correct, we're all here because of Humanity Endless craving and desire for s-x... we're all here because 2 ppl NEEDED to quench their craving and desire for s-x... most pregnancies are unplanned due to recklessness and no self control behavior... Nothing more

[@KyleEvra-15]

Agreed!

[@KyleEvra-15]

You missed the mark nice try though.

[@johnstephen399]

I saw that video, one of the most moronic things I've seen in a while.

[@lovethyneibor22736]

whenever i watch gym fails i realize quickly that having kids is not a great idea

[@KyleEvra-15]

I saw those too!

[@lovethyneibor22736]

@@KyleEvra-15 have you seen the doc?

[@calmhorizons]

@@lovethyneibor22736 Documentary?

[@bremblepate-oc2vc]

People who have children but don't care about the future - there's a term for them: boomers.

[@theman12833]

material conditions are only getting better in first world countries that heavily exploit 3rd world countries, even if you are gaining better material conditions, the pleasure of first world material conditions isnt morally worth the pain of those being exploited

[@user-gu9yq5sj7c]

There is a lot of poverty in 1st world countries too and a growing divide of financial inequality. America has the most billionaires of 813 billionaires who are hoarding so much from the citizens. Being in a 1st would country doesn't mean people access to much. Remember who owns much of all this and price gouge people out. Watch More Perfect Union on things like the modern prison slave labor in America. Watch Second Thought, the Market Exit, Robert Reich, the Financial Diet. Watch Adam Conover on homeless people. Watch the New York Times' video called Come to Jail with Us, You'll Need a Calculator. American prisoners can be charged up to $16,000 in debt from the prisons. Watch Jedu on rich people in New York hoarding homes and buildings and leaving some empty. Watch Cash Jordan on anti-homeless/hostile architecture. Watch Our Changing Climate on capitalism.

[@kalki0273]

I'm seen the future and it's murder. - Leonard Cohen

[@jdw0426]

If you want to make the world better, do it, but having kids is a lazy and an inefficient way to do so

[@joejackson7601]

Lazy, inefficient and Sadistic ✅

[@simonb3643]

Tip for people who want to counter argue the ‘progress’ myth as a reason to have kids in this specific time: read John Gray, English philosopher. Very accessible reading. He is not even an antinatalist /activist etc. But he brilliantly demonstrates that the idea of progress is a nonsensical secular religious belief

[@LawrenceAnton]

I have his Straw Dogs on my reading list!

[@simonb3643]

You’ll love it, albeit it can feel grimm. But losing illusions about what it means to be human can help antimatalism in my opinion

[@xx_amongus_xx6987]

How is progress a nonsensical secular religious belief when it is undeniable that humanity has constantly progressed over time and will continue to do so?

[@simonb3643]

Define your idea of progress

[@ksdtsubfil6840]

While I do like her final thoughts on hope and positive change in the future, I DID NOT consent to having to make that effort, neither to participate in a fight that will make me suffer. Now I HAVE TO participate in it because if I don't it will lead to more suffering for me. Just.... wow.

[@lovethyneibor22736]

Their new episode is called: Suffering is optional 🥴

[@theintrovertedaspie9095]

No it's inevitable.

[@LawrenceAnton]

Some, but definitely not all!

[@RatQueen64]

Goes to show how delusional some people are when it comes to "Life The Gift™"

[@lovethyneibor22736]

@@RatQueen64 you are right sir

[@lovethyneibor22736]

@@LawrenceAnton yes, suffering that is caused by getting pregnent is in fact optional but breeders seem to be incapable of understanding it

[@jamesmadison7869]

Im just existing No Money No Passion No Intelligence.

[@TitusSamuel-qd2uy]

🤔

[@tad4663]

life may seem getting better on the surface but that's actually not entirely true, improvements always come with a cost and its new set of probelms and complexities.. technology has improved some aspects but also introduced new probelms like polution, climate change, mental health issues increased rates of cancer, accidents etc etc, it's very simplistic to consider it improvement only

[@LawrenceAnton]

She definitely seems to focus on the positive, not appreciating fully that almost everything is a trade off.

[@batmann2723]

It's my biggest issue with the economic freedom index, it takes into account technical factors like gdp and technological improvements without taking into the account the human factor and how satisfied the given population actually is or will be

[@bremblepate-oc2vc]

@@LawrenceAnton She doesn't appear to understand the difference between average and median either. If you put 300 random people in a room with Elon Musk the average person is a billionaire. But the median person is a poor MFr barely able to scrape by.

[@greenleaf239]

The idea of being under the control of an employer is a recent idea in terms of evolutionary history, as is the idea of being born without any land. Neither of these things is an improvement, IMO.

[@xx_amongus_xx6987]

@@LawrenceAnton And you only focus on the negative, never appreciating the things we do have in life.

[@Jokers_Yugioh666]

We already have 8 billion people i don't think we need more.... Sigh i hate the dna molecule!

[@KyleEvra-15]

Same here!

[@edwardgrigoryan3982]

Just to be clear, can the position that is being taken here be distilled into: if no one exists, then there will be no suffering? Does this imply that the optimal number of people is zero?

[@TheFettuck]

The optimal number is a contradiction, because antinatalists themselves don't want to end their own existence.

[@trevagraham1605]

Ignorance doesn't quite describe her point of view. It's more of a Stockholm Syndrome mindset. I understand that if everyone decided to stop having children right now the last couple of generations that survive until they are older will no doubt suffer more than they would have if the population was still booming with people to keep society going, but I say their suffering will not be in vain if the end result is total extinction of the species. She can't see the big picture.

[@joejackson7601]

Stockholm Syndrome aka Trauma Bond... birth creates a Trauma Bond to parents and this world.

[@Rook_ie]

I’m very bored of the saccharine “hOpE N fAiTH” cliche trotted out every time some concern for the future of our planet and society is raised. As well as “things were WORSE in the past!”. Yawn! Try something new already.

[@xx_amongus_xx6987]

Were things not worse in the past?

[@KyleEvra-15]

Ugh 😒🙄 the very moment she was like "Oh no we need more Wage Slaves to take care of the Aging Population!!!" Yet we Antinatalists get called Selfish. 🙄😒

[@Antcraft15]

Even the comment section of the original video is displeased with it. So yeah, not a success for the natalist camp.

[@lovethyneibor22736]

Good point

[@LawrenceAnton]

At least some people have sense!

[@religionofpeace782]

8:01 Beg to differ Lawrence, its not just irresponsible its highly criminial and culpable.

[@joejackson7601]

And Sadistic

[@barcodekilla1138]

Its funny that same people that are concerned about future of humanity kick their kids out from home when they hit 18 lol

[@joejackson7601]

Unfortunately, they do things far worse...to where their offspring run away from home...

[@TitusSamuel-qd2uy]

👍👍

[@lovethyneibor22736]

why is she smiling so hard?

[@Tiffanynyc2323]

Life gotten better??? I disagree lol well yes and no

[@bremblepate-oc2vc]

From 1830? Yes. From 1985? No. Oh hell no.

[@Stevelives13]

@@bremblepate-oc2vc Better than terrible can still be bad.

[@Tiffanynyc2323]

@@bremblepate-oc2vclol I hear you

[@joeteevee]

Great video Lawrence! Thanks for saying it.

[@LawrenceAnton]

Cheers!

[@cosmicprison9819]

6:15 There’s a sort of prisoners’ dilemma here: One could argue those people you mentioned who will be born regardless of our personal actions will then also need other people to at least maintain current first-world living conditions, if not to improve them even further. The irony being: If neither existed, neither would be in need of these things - but, much like in a prisoners’ dilemma, as long as at least one of them exists, their own self-interests will probably benefit from the existence of the other. That wasn’t what I was thinking of when I picked my user name, but it’s nice to discover there is this second layer to it now… 😇

[@Stevelives13]

Its a ponzi scheme and ponzi schemes only end up one way, they get to a certain size then collapse.

[@furiousdestroyah9999]

Humanity has always been a mistake, huh

[@AmpliaciondeRobotica]

Hi, sometimes I watch your channel because I want to improve my listening skills and I think you are right, greetings from an antinatalist from Mallorca, Spain. Don't give Up, keep your courage.💪😅

[@LawrenceAnton]

Great to hear there are antinatalists in Mallorca!

[@wilberwhateley7569]

“Material conditions are getting better” for some people - not the majority! She goes on and on about life expectancies while ignoring the fact that most people end up spending more and more of that life slaving away for wages that don’t even cover the basics of living!

[@cosmicprison9819]

I also have a problem with Christina Emba’s implication that Marxism being implemented would be an example of “things going right”. 🙄 Sure, “end of capitalism” doesn’t necessarily mean “Marxism” - but a), the person she’s quoting was a Marxist, and b) socialism, to its varying degrees, is currently the only competing ideology to capitalism that keeps getting proposed. That’s why people have to keep arguing whether a clearly post-capitalist post-scarcity society like Star Trek: The Next Generation is communist or not.

[@ontariocacher]

As always, so insightful, and well articulated. Thank you.

[@chuahping9299]

Thanks!

[@LawrenceAnton]

Appreciate the support! 🔥

[@giordanorossi4316]

Thank you for the high amount of common sense

[@finaldestination41]

Lawrence channel is best ❤

[@OokwaYikmagwa]

I think that your thinks are well thunk.

[@LawrenceAnton]

Thenk u

[@crocodileshark1528]

I'm subscribed to Big Think and I actually stopped watching the video around when it started talking about the world getting better. It just came off like "I think this is really just about a lack of hope, but there is hope! Hope, hope hope!". It felt like talking past the issue and I'm like "Yeah, okay."

[@Nathaniel-r8l]

So much cool nihilism on this thread. Bah humbug. Ambrose Bierce wrote: "Life's not worth living, and that's the truth," Carelessly caroled the golden youth. When kicked by a jackass at eighty-three "Go fetch me a surgeon at once!" cried he.

[@adamromero]

4:48 All of these advances were made possible due to fossil fuels... an economically finite resource which releases carbon emissions.

[@OokwaYikmagwa]

Jesus, one minute in and youtube throws up a Tony Robbins optimism ad…🤢

[@karlstone6011]

AVERAGED life expectancy was around 30 years in 1770, but that's because massive infant mortality brings down the average - not because people were dying at 30. They weren't. In the Bible it speaks of human life spans as threescore and ten. Life expectancy hasn't increased significantly. Rather, it's that less people are dying; in particular, of childhood diseases.

[@user-gu9yq5sj7c]

Why didn't Big Think have an antinatalist on instead? Christine said "having kids makes people care about the future". So parents only care about their kids and not others? People can't just care about everyone. Some childfree people do activitism to help the world. Thanks to having no kids they have more time and finances to help the world. Christine said it might be good to have kids so they can fund social security. Thats a system problem that is man-made. Change the system. We shouldn't breed wage slaves for social security. Some people say we shouldn't breed kids to take care of their old parents. What's the difference with breeding kids to work for social security? For ways to change the system, watch More Perfect Union, Second Thought, the Market Exit, and Andrewism. Watch Our Changing Climate on problems with capitalism.

[@dayytube]

Material Condition are getting better undoubtedly but at the cost of an arm or a leg for instance, the medicals expenses are through the roof with many people earning less and living paycheck to check despite of frugal living this gives us food for thought. Also a lot of pressure is put on paying hospital bills making life a living hell with work getting in the way of pretty much everything eg. the 9-5 slavery we all have to endure ..working for a cooperate with slavery in the disguise of lucrative payouts . Life is just misery in My opinion, and bringing a child into sentience to go through this rigmarole is Pure Evil. Stop Having Kids! Please we are trapped in this biological cage of a long ,long time.

[@Plsmfndow0596vm]

pls talk about MAID as anti natalist.

[@m0nke13]

First

[@sunbear3324]

Even though you are first , it would've been better if you never were at all

[@MrSvenovitch]

everything is a competition 🤣

[@m0nke13]

@MrSvenovitch That's actually a good argument for antinatalism

[@LuciferMorningstar-i3u]

🇳🇵🇳🇵 love from nepal 🇳🇵

[@LawrenceAnton]

Cheers Nepal!

[@joelbelmonte1383]

surviving mindset leads to profit orientation and living mindset leads to sustainability

[@joelbelmonte1383]

Very good video

[@LawrenceAnton]

Cheers

[@James-wf8nu]

Hey I don't know if you ever post your vids on the AN sub, but I found one there and have enjoyed watching a few videos. You should definitely post your vids over there every once and a while!

[@cal9112]

Climate worries? Is she serious?

[@lovethyneibor22736]

@scottccyoutube bro you are very wise

[@PhokenKuul]

Shit. Antinatalism fails on antinatalism. The arguments are simply weak and unconvincing. Not wanting to have kids is perfectly fine. Trying to tie it to some greater ethical theory has never been successfully argued.

[@xx_amongus_xx6987]

"But don't you know!?? The world is so horrible and life sucks!" - as I would type from my computer in my house where I have food and entertainment at my finger-tips. As if the world being horrible is a logical reason to simply "give up" on humanity. As you said, it is fine if one does not want to take on the responsibility of having children. But if the reason is, "life sucks", that is a pretty weak argument considering that life sucking is something that is, as time goes on, increasingly less and less of a problem. And we can ensure this by improving the world ourselves and having kids to pass on our knowledge and determination among other things. Not whining online and giving up on life.

[@PhokenKuul]

@@xx_amongus_xx6987 Yep to all that. For me it's the moral high ground they try to take. As if wanting a family is ethically bankrupt. Bringing someone into this world does indeed mean that they will suffer. But there is suffering and there is suffering. Not all suffering is the same and trying to make an argument by equating all suffering as of the same degree is just plain stupid. And dishonest. Moral high ground my ass.

[@xx_amongus_xx6987]

@@PhokenKuul I dislike the moral high ground they grift as and the way they ignore all of the positive things in life and decide they are too weak and "justified" in not improving life. To want the human race to die out because we have problems instead of attempting to solve those problems is insanity. But as much as I disagree and dislike this, I don't have a huge problem with it because it ensures that their beliefs will never become mainstream. I wonder when anti-natalists will realize that sitting atop a high horse, calling normal people "breeders", and doing other similar things will never bring new people over. If they want to gatekeep their ideology, act elitist, and let their community fizzle out because they can't handle having kids, that is fine by me.

[@lonergettingstronger]

⁠​⁠@@PhokenKuul And who is saying all suffering is the same ? There is temporary suffering like the pain from working out, and then there’s chronic suffering like having cancer, but there is no chronic pleasure.

[@lonergettingstronger]

@@xx_amongus_xx6987 Yeah because materialistic possessions defines someone’s quality of life instead of their experiences. That’s like telling a rich person they shouldn’t feel depressed after they got in a car wreck and became permanently paralyzed from the neck down.