The Biggest Cheating Scandal In Counter-Strike History - Coach Spectator Bug

[@ks30512]

The fact the ESIC unbanned the most blatant cheaters, but not the dude who literally did everything correctly and caused him to miss a massive moment in his career clearly shows that this "commission" needs to go.

[@thadex454]

Corruption at all levels...

[@BainesMkII]

@@thadex454 It probably isn't corruption. ESIC likely desperately wanted to appear to be effective, so they went on a long term mass banning campaign where they likely didn't bother to look too deep into surrounding evidence due to the sheer scale of the endeavor. Maybe after the fact ESIC was just deathly afraid of any legal risk regardless of how sure they were, or maybe they'd handled the investigations so poorly that they knew they were at particular risk if any coach (regardless of evidence) contested a ban. Either way, ESIC folded the moment any coaches threatened to sue over the bans. But ESIC still needed to look effective, so they couldn't dare to just overthrow *all* the bans, so they overturned the bans for coaches that threatened to sue (which happened to be some of the worst abusers) while maintaining the bans on everyone else (which included any "nice guys" who probably should have received minimal if any punishment in the first place.)

[@lupeplaiyt3783]

this game is corrupt there are players with glitches when they play like they are playing cs go on joystick. this game never does anything for the community they allow cheating hordes to get ranked up in the game because if they ban them they will buy a new copy of the game. even the guys exposing cheating on youtube end up getting attacked by the machine of bots they hire to discredit the man that put work into this and showing the people the real face of gaming pro scene. players that talked about cheating they are gone from the pro scene guess why if you have a brain that works. eventually i hope it dies cause this kind of sport will be more rigged then the UFC guys using steroids or any other sport that is cheating involving. in 2023 after almost 20 years of gaming i can say its almost dead especially because of streamers cheating to get on top of the viewers ladder so lets thank them for destroying the only thing we loved and that was gaming. even the streamers has an army of bots defending them when you call them out for cheating the internet is fake nowadays cause of PR marketing companies which you can easily buy.

[@Kruemeleistee]

The timing of this video is insane. The danish team Astralis just announced that they signed Hunden as their Head Analyst... He's now the Analyst of Gla1ve and Device, the very players wo spoke out against Hunden before :D Ohh how the tables have turned... Even better is the fact that Hunden apparently also shared confidential information from his previous team Heroic with an individual (allegedly someone from Astralis) before a major competition in 2021. And now he got signed by Astralis xD Astralis is doing the any% speedrun for dragging your own lagacy through the mud. They may have won four majors but they're just a shadow of their former self.

[@tekt_real]

I'm sure they have spoken this through internally very thoroughly. But the public image, as you said, can never be repaired. Quite sad.

[@Kruemeleistee]

@@tekt_real the fact that the Astralis Head of Communications publicly threatened Janko on twitter yesterday makes it even worse :D

[@mikeyb7079]

You are acting like the players chose hunden and the players = the org. The players deserve a lot of respect. The org is a piece of shit.

[@mikeyb7079]

​@TMD Water Haha thats bs and you know it kid. But it was a cute attempt.

[@mikeyb7079]

​@TMD Water literally goat and most decorated igl haha but nice try

[@fistofreak99]

Not this coming out the day Hunden gets signed to fucking Astralis 😂

[@bob-rob]

Valve has always hated CS. They hate that it makes soo much money that they have to continue to work on it, barely

[@nzmason]

“Cs makes so much money that valve hate the game” 2023 is going to a doozy

[@ajguevara6961]

That's also why they hate TF2. I think the 2 or 3 people still working on that game only do it because they know it makes money selling hats. And they do it begrudgingly.

[@LunaPPK]

@@nzmason i think what they are saying is valve honestly wants nothing to do with their games anymore they hate CS because they have to actively work on it

[@deadersurvival4716]

@@LunaPPK And the reply is saying that's a stupid stance because it makes literally no sense.

[@LunaPPK]

@@deadersurvival4716 I mean its clear they hate actually doing anything not steam tho just look at how they handle tf2 if anything they prob just wanna abandon CS aswell

[@oppenz3723]

Astralis is practically a banned Danish individuals refugee right now.

[@sebastianrivero8480]

Robban has been a pilar of cs for more than a decade, i just hope faze clan wins another major because he deserves a mayor winner medal

[@handlmycck]

esic were angry at him because he tried to fix the bug early on. if he succeeded noone wouldve ever heard about esic, they would be homeless

[@inFiniteTraCer]

sounds like he might have a case for "retaliation"....all he did was call it out and he was punished...? Poor guy missed that medal gdi that makes me hate the scene

[@otakurt1149]

HUNDEN openly being a bad guy and not giving a fuck

[@somedude1068]

Hunden has that rare punchable face

[@eneshiro7727]

Valve? Fix things? Not gonna happen

[@SaintZaiya]

What a great video thank you akshon esports for another quality video exposing scandals in the esports sector. Im not too familiar with CS:Go but I’m sure your informative and helpful video will fill me in. Have a great day!

[@Aspratameme]

You also clearly don’t know if it’s a great video seeing as you commented as the video came out

[@SaintZaiya]

@@Aspratameme I wrote this at 4am coming down off of coke

[@fakeaccount6319]

You are a literal NPC

[@Aspratameme]

@@SaintZaiya and before the video was a minute old :)

[@tam-tam7098]

@@SaintZaiya actual fuckn legend

[@Samlem14]

God valve is so incompetent it’s just sad

[@_Mutto_]

Its not Valve's issue that people cheat. Leagues need to keep their players honest.

[@inFiniteTraCer]

@@_Mutto_ fix the game.

[@azzarudders]

pahaha the fucking timing

[@arc-sd8sk]

37 bans? in a row?

[@empoleonmaster6709]

Hey, not sure if you'll see this, but in April Megaman Battle Network series is getting a remaster coming out in April complete with full online pvp functionality and allegedly rollback netcode. It'd be interesting to see a follow up video on the competitive scene for it after the game/s comes out.

[@rendyajadech1957]

Hell yeah 🤩

[@CapybaraEnjoyer123]

Tango will still be better but hopefully this collections brings more attention to the game/tango

[@handlmycck]

how funny, in the end esic with their ruling were just as bad as the coaches abusing the bug. no integrity and 0 correlation with reality.

[@thadex454]

Once a cheater always a cheater...

[@nabusvco]

My problem here is not the ban of the coaches, its that valve being valve didnt gave a shit for 4 years.

[@kotm8633]

I love the team e n c e

[@Skantaq]

EZ4ENCE

[@Priestitude]

Instead of banning coaches, they should ban the developer who created the bug.

[@Nobody-xe9fc]

Just fix the bug. Problem solved.

[@YeetMan.]

If valve actually cared maybe

[@deadersurvival4716]

And you two have never tried coding. Good to know.

[@Nobody-xe9fc]

@@deadersurvival4716 It's not my job to learn to code. My job allows me to buy some of the games Valve produces, and in turn, my money goes into not only the games Valve develops and makes, but also these bugs and oversights. It's equivalent to saying "Your tax dollars at work."

[@deadersurvival4716]

@@Nobody-xe9fc It may not be your job to learn to code, but you should still know enough to know that coding isn't as easy as "just do the thing". Coding is, ironically, very fickle and can not work when you've done everything right, to inexplicably work when you've done it wrong. And yes, expecting things to get done immediately because they present a mild inconvenience to you is like saying "tax dollars are at work" because it's just as stupid and ignorant of the actual process.

[@Guarrow]

You still have to punish the people who used it to their advantage

[@KiffJRockka]

there even are infolocks in the movie lol, because they literally use it every round, I'm still surprised people in chat during most matches don't see it

[@bobdrooples]

Enlighten an old fudd?

[@therealnoodledog6660]

I still don't understand the repercussions of this bug. Does the bug allows the coach to see in game in real time a 360 skybox and communicate with the players like it's a wall hack, or does it allows the coach to communicate only on timeouts?

[@SendNuux]

The coaches can only talk during timeouts. Depending on the location of the spectator bug, it can have devastating consequences of the match from information gathered.

[@therealnoodledog6660]

@@SendNuux i need a video showing me what kind of consequences can happen. I don't play the game professionally, i don't understand

[@lbk1744]

@@therealnoodledog6660 logicly this would allow coach to know the enemy stragegy better like how they move where they move the roles of each one etc

[@therealnoodledog6660]

@@lbk1744 well it's CSGO, the maps are decades old and the players have thousands of hours on record, I'm not so sure that the coach wouldn't already known this information either way don't you think?

[@Armyon]

@@therealnoodledog6660 strategies change and vary depending on your opponents, the game still evolves and changes even during the rounds themselves things happen opportunities arise. If your coach abuses a bug gets a read that your opponents has a tendency to e.g. respond and change their tactics in response to your teams actions via information they got from your actions, your coach can tell you to continue doing that action and your team can set a trap for your opponents to walk into. Cs isnt set in stone it may seem that way compared to other games but meta's do shift, changes are made to the maps, the mappool, the economy and weapons, people learn or incorporate new things. Heres a video of a strat used by g2 vs Liquid analyzed and explained kzbin.info/www/bejne/i5y0f4uPpd-Djc0 now think what if Liquid had rotated a player b or yekindar had played site.

[@danielfitzroy5177]

i cant think of a game with more cheaters in it

[@АртёмТор-к2ю]

tf2

[@matka5130]

I have completely lost all respect to CS...Big part community using this in one the most competitive game. Disgusted, never watching CS again.

[@АртёмТор-к2ю]

sadly it's everywere rn. if you goodle any sport+cheating you won't have any faith in humanity left

[@gilolaes4725]

After watching the video, Valve took a bunch of half measures when they should have gone all in on their convictions. Either ban coaches to the nth degree immediately so the concept of coaching is nipped in the bud, or fully embrace the role of coaches and give them everything they need to do their jobs.

[@deadersurvival4716]

...so you don't know what coaches are for. Valve wasn't trying to eliminate coaches from the equation, nor are they trying to make coaches' jobs harder. Anyone who's watched T3 or casual events know why coaches are extremely important, and Valve is literally the ones who define what coaches are meant to do.

[@gilolaes4725]

@@deadersurvival4716 If you'd like to explain "why coaches are extremely important" for the sake of the comments section here, I'm all ears.

[@deadersurvival4716]

@@gilolaes4725 Well, to give a highlight reel, because a coach depends on the actual staffing, the game, and the team's needs, a coach: watches gameplay to see if a teammate is doing something wrong and needs to make adjustments ("alright, well our normal isn't working, so try the angle on the other side"), analysing the opponent's habits that the team might have missed ("They've been going B most rounds but winning more on A, let's try getting A first so that we can cover that base easiest"), resetting a player's or the team's mental ("I need you to calm down, yes, we lost that map, but it's our worst map. Let's deal with map three and take them out"), doing the actual pick/ban process for maps (in games that don't have/use different maps, leading any pre-game motions like pick/bans for MOBAs), doing tech checks/prep adjustments for online and LAN events respectively, acting as an intermediary between event staff (including registering the team) and the players or between their own players and the other team, making sure the team is doing practice relevant to them (such as setting up scrims, finding practice mods for games with them, or running practice games between multiple teams if the org has enough players), making sure that players are taken care of (making sure they've abided to their diet, setting diets up, setting them up with living conditions, runs the gamer house if the team has one), picking the actual team that represents the org at any form of semi-competitive environment, and (most importantly) acting as the communication point between org higher ups and the players they manage. Obviously some jobs are taken by other staff if the org is big enough, and other jobs are entirely dependant on the players needing it, but considering this doesn't even scratch the surface of what a coach can be expected to do, I think that's a good point to stop at.

[@gilolaes4725]

@@deadersurvival4716 Oh, I see where we've gotten mixed up. When I say that Valve hasn't handled coaching correctly, I'm more referring to the notion of using a "6th man", "during the game" coach. All of the reasons you mentioned are great in terms of why you should have a general coach that handles all the training, prep, and logistics. When it comes to in the server coaching I think we can both agree that Valve fumbled things hard.

[@deadersurvival4716]

@@gilolaes4725 I mean, how do you figure? Because a coach shouldn't be making call outs for the team, that _should_ be the players, especially since not every team has a coach. During time outs is fine, because a team is able to fixate on making itself feel better or communicating. Not having a coach with an omniscient perspective is still a loss to the overall abilities of the team, but it's drastically reduced, and can further mitigated by talking, as coaches were never intended to have any view that the players don't.

[@kevkj]

HUNDEN CAM

[@SVANEf]

Heroic has to be the biggest COPIUM of all time. The org is known for not speaking out about the incident and other things. And they even waited weeks before speaking out about the bug. All their tears are so fake. They blamed it all on NIKO. And with his diseases, i feel so bad for him, they blamed it all on him.

[@MichaelChiklisCares]

Hope we a see a Netflix movie about the CS BUG..... BUG BUG BUG BUG A VALVE CAN'T JUST FIX, A BUGGGGGG. That ruins lives.

[@thunderjolt69]

Song from :40 to 4:20?

[@Akuretaki_Nikolay]

darude - sandstorm

[@incosy]

Hunden really stands up to his name lol

[@gepflegtePCSpieleKultur]

Like Doping in professional Athletic Sports... if the majority does it and you don't want to fall behind / stay competitive... basic psychology 101...

[@lukafireman]

Intriguing, did they fix the bug, or was valve just lazy enough to not even touch the relevant UB and just keep coaches banned permanently? It's laughable at best imagining how a large corp. cannot fix their bug, but instead just block the chance of abusing it in the pro scene xD

[@fhjunior6183]

Thanks for the vid

[@cuylshepherdton7437]

As if match fixing doesn't still occur in other ways. Please. The competitive scene of anything will never be clean as long as there is money to be made by doing shady shit.

[@boanoah6362]

Honestly I don't think coaches should even exist, it should just be the players playing the game working together as a team to win the match. Having someone stand there keeping track of everything and spectating in the game is weird, it does nothing but further expand the team's ability to micromanage themselves. Just get rid of coaches and literally cheating like this becomes straight up impossible regardless of spectator bugs.

[@AlistairBremen]

Everyone hates working

[@explodingmonad4535]

Well, in Danish "Hunden" means"The dog"..

[@scopiieee9271]

what happened to the ow videos

[@rare8567]

dead gaem

[@cousinpatsey2471]

@@rare8567 you have a really poor definition of dead game if that's dead

[@A.Froster]

It has become kinda irrelevant after the initial hype

[@ninjabaiano6092]

Considered that valve does not consider coaches as player's they are not cheating cause they are not playing.

[@deadersurvival4716]

That's still outside interference... Which is even more cheating.

[@JohnPaulBuce]

are we back to counter strike 1.6

[@FizzleFX]

2years old news

[@deezy8226]

Why are you spelling out ence?

[@ghdelao]

k0nfig died for this

[@irishjug8208]

The game looks boring!

[@LukeSaward]

you probably play OW

[@mitsuracer87]

Would never have been a problem if they didn't let coaches spectate and communicate in game from the start

[@-dmm]

So you're telling me. All the CSGO matches I've been watching since like early ass csgo tourneys possibly lots were using spectator bugs. So most games were faked. Shouy definitely look into matches possibly throwing. Coaches were playing with people's money too with bets n stuff. That's pretty bad

[@steelbluesleepR]

At which point does a bug become a feature? If that many coaches knew about it and used it, it seems like nobody had an unfair advantage.

[@_Mutto_]

It IS a feature. Free roam camera and third person camera on players was always a viewing option for dead players in counter strike at least before GO.

[@taylorpeay8991]

good thing i stopped watching pro CS back in 2016. now i can cherish my memories instead of questioning the validity and integrity of every event from that point

[@erikreddington461]

Hey, ftx is there sponsor? Maybe theres your answer? Human beings are about self interest.

[@shiathebeef92]

Ence isn't pronounced letter by letter by the way lol. Its ens

[@cathalodriscoll5904]

August 31th 4:27

[@Skantaq]

I just wanted Half-Life 3

[@r0q]

thanks for not doing a video about a smash player

[@JustSomeGoy]

Coaching shouldn't even be a thing in Counter Strike, this is disgusting🤮and no one but Valve is to blame.

[@Advokaiser]

Guys, I have a question: Is it legal to create and use my own victory theme, or do I have to forcefully buy a music kit? I ask this because I'd like to add a personalized one but I don't want to get banned or something.

[@rustyshackleford2605]

If you do this you will get arrested by valve and you will go to gamer hell. Don't do it bro, it's not worth it.

[@SwagbitoUchiha]

Gaben will personally visit your house and gun you down, I’ve seen it before

[@hegyak]

You want to look at SV_Pure and what it does. Usually Valve Servers run SV_Pure 2 Bypassing SV_Pure is a SURE way to VAC town. Don't do that.

[@dr_big_smoke1350]

LETS GO

[@garyhandt3858]

good content a little old news but still good thank u

[@johnnycatR58]

It is RobbaN, not Robin. ENCE, not E.N.C.E.

[@robertcioveie8113]

Average TF2 Enjoyer: Yup, CS:GO is no better state then TF2.

[@LukeSaward]

And the average TF2 enjoyer doesn't know how to spell.

[@robertcioveie8113]

@@LukeSaward And I care, because.

[@_Mutto_]

@@LukeSaward The average CS player starts their sentence with a conjunction.

[@nijigaharaTV]

E N C E

[@arken003]

Wtf

[@sebastjansslavitis3898]

fix your game not punish players, especially if bug has been reported back in 2017 but nobody cared

[@Dropbare]

31th

[@7thKings]

Worst code,outdated engine..ea bestfriend valve

[@deadersurvival4716]

"It took 4 years for Valve to actually fix the bug, even though they tried. This is negligence." No, that is coding. The number of times that something doesn't work for no reason is figuratively astronomical, just for it to work when it shouldn't. "Compared to other devs like Riot Games, Valve has not been open with their communication." There's so many levels to that stupidity, I almost don't know where to start. Valve is very open, outright putting out documents that you used in the video for rule changes, and explaining why these changes are made. Riot, on the other hand, on top of stealing all of Valve's games, dumbing them down and then calling it their own while actively lying to their community, does not publish these same types of documents, nor do they take any effort in banning cheaters until the community forces them to.

[@hegyak]

As a Coder myself. I KNOW the difference between "This is a complicated Bug" and "I don't want to deal with this." Valve, usually does the "I don't want to deal with" method of "Fixing" things. Look at How Broken Half-Life: Source is. Yes. Old game. BUT, Valve will STILL sell you it. No questions asked.

[@littleloner1159]

So just how tricky you think it is that none of the what? 100+ at the very minimum devs that work at valve couldn't have worked it out in 4 years? I mean they must be financially struggling if that's the case and they didn't hire an external expert to help them out.... For a bug with such gravity to the company directly they treated it like your mom and pop shop treats online security.

[@Regexion]

It is negligence because they ignored the bug for years. Valve does this all the time with their games, because they don't care. CS:GO and DotA 2 are going to be at the top either way and Steam is too big to fail. All of the platforms trying to compete with Steam are laughably bad. Also, League of Legends is based on the Warcraft 3 mod DotA which was not made by Valve. DotA 2 came out years after LoL. Valorant has more mechanics and features than CS:GO. Legends of Runeterra is a Hearthstone clone, which isn't a Valve game. Though I agree with the sentiment that Riot hasn't made any original games. Hell, they're even working on a Street Fighter clone and an MMORPG, which is probably going to be a WoW clone.

[@deadersurvival4716]

@@littleloner1159 100+ devs, spread across multiple IPs. Not for a single game. And let's not pretend this is a major ground breaking bug. It's a spectator bug, and a spectator bug alone. It has very little "gravity" to the company, and they did plenty more worthwhile fixes in that time, so let's not pretend they ignored the game. I will not pretend that Valve has been perfect, the dirty laundry list of the company is too long for that, but let's not pretend that this was game altering outside of the competitive scene in the upper echelons specifically, as most casual, T3, and even T2 teams don't have a manager, let alone a coach.

[@deadersurvival4716]

@@Regexion No, the original DotA was based on the Warcraft mod, League copied and simplified that and DotA 2 came out as a polish up of the original, effectively pulling a sports game, and releasing the same thing but with two new things. Valorant is CSGO but with Overwatch characters, let's not pretend that's not a copy paste job. They added one more bomb site per map, and gave characters special abilities. If you're that hard up for CSGO but with overwatch characters, I'm sure the modding community is more than happy to help. And Legends of Runeterra is the only exception to the "Riot steals Valve's IPs but changes it so the teachers doesn't know" rule. Though, let's be honest. Valve also has a card game, that came out two years earlier, and is more complicated, Artifact. Maybe not one of their most successful IPs, but definitely still on the list.

[@baritonetenor]

I wish (even though it was only a short clip w/o him speaking) you didn't include Thorin in the footage for this episode. This man is hugely biggoted in many ways and it never feels good to see someone who doesn't think you are "lesser" during a video like this one. It takes me out of it and makes me want to go watch something else real quick. It's already daunting to get into cs:go news since there is a lot of hate in the space for people like me and this kind of reminder of that doesn't really feel great. idk just wanted to give the feedback at least.

[@mirzarazak6170]

The world doesn't revolve around you...

[@LukeSaward]

Shut up. The world doesn't revolve around you.

[@kadeconnorz8181]

I wish I didn't have to read this comment but we don't often get what we want

[@baritonetenor]

@@kadeconnorz8181 close your eyes bozo you scrolled down

[@baritonetenor]

@@mirzarazak6170 lowkey kinda does I haven't been flung to outer space yet

[@x0j]

this is not the biggest scandal

[@LunaTulpa]

uh, what was then? 100+ coaches is far more than anything from any match fixing or vac scandal

[@x0j]

@@LunaTulpa the fact that valve turns off the anti-wallhack for tourney matches now. You no longer see any PVS snap-on bugs because of this (see proverwatch video)

[@LunaTulpa]

@@x0j what's the actual name of the video? and can you tell me where you heard of valve turning off anti walls anywhere?

[@LukeSaward]

@@x0j Proof? inb4 "source: trust me bro" If you can't provide proof, you're bullshitting.

[@x0j]

@@LukeSaward did I literally not just link the official valve github?