The entire point of early investors getting a bigger chunk at a lesser price, is because they take a risk higher than later investors. Later investors come in when the business starts showing potential ,and take a lower risk. This isn't a new concept at all, the entire series A,B,c funding works exactly like this. The fact that the Dragons "felt" insulted at being asked to offer more for less, is hilarious
@noodlesthe1st2 жыл бұрын
I think it's not so much just the fact that it's higher. It's the fact that the valuation of the company has increased 20x but the turnover and profit doesn't really reflect this and the projection relies on the increase in turnover from actually managing to sign on a dragon.
@ItsCapital2 жыл бұрын
Right? I'd like to buy all of Amazon at it's 1995 valuation, please 🤣
@fastasfox2 жыл бұрын
My thoughts exactly.
@meknassimohamedamine822 жыл бұрын
They aren't realy insulted, the know exactly the logic ur talking about and with out talking to each other collectively agreed to use that argument to make the guy feel vulnérable .
@cluesfn48552 жыл бұрын
@@meknassimohamedamine82 nah. that’s not why. They understand this concept perfectly well. It just shouldn’t have increased by THAT much.
@reganbrannigan30063 жыл бұрын
You don’t invest in a business at previous valuations. It’s like being angry that you can’t invest in Bitcoin for the price it was before it exploded
@maxmackinlay6183 жыл бұрын
First in, best dressed.
@sammaartens41053 жыл бұрын
Exactly idk what they're thinking
@HaveAGreatDayStranger3 жыл бұрын
I wish he had said that. They invested before tbe business generated as much revenue as it is now! They are paying for the pudding, the proof is already baked. The other people paid when it was just a recipe. They saw he (for some reason) did not reason about this himself and they leveraged his ignorance with guilt and intimidation. I wish he had gathered the sense to say that. They know its true, they're just happy the con worked.
@mustardsaround68523 жыл бұрын
@@HaveAGreatDayStranger the con worked perfectly..probably they should have just gone to shark tank 🤣
@richardevans89083 жыл бұрын
@@sammaartens4105 it’s because the dragons hold the cards at the end of the day. the pitchers came to them for an investment so the dragons have the negotiating power, so they can say things like I’m insulted I’m out or whatever they need to in order to make the deal as appealing to themselves as possible , the one seeking investment can’t be so picky as seen here having to go from 7.5% equity to 30% just so they can potentially improve their business, whereas the dragons wouldn’t leave empty handed by simply not investing unless they get a bad deal themselves which doesn’t happen often.
@Alephu53 жыл бұрын
They're pissed off about a 10-20x increase in price of a rapidly growing business, yet I'm expected to pay £400k for a house that cost £4k new and has accumulated 50 years of wear and tear.
@ricknelsonm3 жыл бұрын
Very good point about the house costs, they are very bad in California and Canada too, your money buys nothing anymore,
@thabangkhatide3 жыл бұрын
👏🏼💯
@1yearago4913 жыл бұрын
Move out of London then
@thealien_ali33823 жыл бұрын
Exactly
@user-bo3mp8un6c3 жыл бұрын
@@1yearago491 Houses in London don't cost 400k
@neiltavares59103 жыл бұрын
Man that interpreter showed some pazzaz when translating 30%
@thephantom46613 жыл бұрын
🤣😂 even he thought it was nuts
@karisparis913 жыл бұрын
😂😂😂
@IAMTHESTARMAN3 жыл бұрын
His facial expressions match Theo’s tone. I wouldn’t be surprised there is a correlation.
@ihirslund3 жыл бұрын
That's how you do in sign language. :-)
@kimdaisies26603 жыл бұрын
🤯😲😂🤣🤣
@Billy_B3 жыл бұрын
Deborah to Elon Musk “why should I pay $1000 per Tesla share when people bought 6 years ago at $100?”
@struesbob74933 жыл бұрын
True businesses evolve
@richardb223 жыл бұрын
Well there are a lot of people who won't buy Tesla;s cause they want to say See You Next Tuesday . to Mr Musk the bloke who accuses others of dodgy stuff.
@Sparringvids943 жыл бұрын
😂
@W3LLcoOL3 жыл бұрын
Yeah and when negotiating the dragons always talk about the value they will ad to get a bigger chunk, works both ways! 🤔
@derekm31803 жыл бұрын
Yep. However, the show edits down a 3 hour pitch into 10 minutes, so there might be a lot of context that's missing here.
@geoffm99442 жыл бұрын
I couldn’t understand the hostility of two of the dragons. They felt insulted? Really? I don’t think so! It’s business! He gave an excellent pitch and stood his ground! Good for him. The Dragons are there to give applicants a rough time, but I can’t abide their faux outrage and wounded feelings nonsense!
@02smithm12 жыл бұрын
Nothing but a negotiating tactic from the dragons. They aren't really offended. Often their 'doubts' are exaggerated to try and get a higher percentage of the business.
@DonceBeats2 жыл бұрын
@@02smithm1 exactly. Although it really makes everybody (apart the dragons i assume) misunderstand their frustration. When I say I'm offended, that means I've had it up to here and in reality the dragons are just employing another tactic. Name of the game I guess.
@therearenoshortcuts98682 жыл бұрын
could just be added in deliberately to make the show spicy
@geoffm99442 жыл бұрын
@Bob Shingles Meaningless and frankly inane response. Surely you can construct a proper grammatical sentence or did you skip English lessons?
@madeleinedeburgh70162 жыл бұрын
Insulted??? and they are in business LOL.... silly men
@knuckalar3 жыл бұрын
The dragons always have a meltdown when there’s other investors involved
@Jessica73183 жыл бұрын
Yes. In this case it's tough on the entrepreneur because the business entered a desperate state early on where people got a very good deal. In order to keep the business afloat, help it through a tough time and get it out of a struggle, they received a preferential deal. The dragons didn't like that the same deal wasn't available to them (the same discount) but the business was in a healthier place when it came to them. In the same breath however, I'm sure the dragons would be the first to say that if, after they've added value to the company by joining, another round of funding from another investor would have to take that into account. What I mean by this is, if a dragon invests, makes the business more valuable, then someone else invests to join in, I bet the dragon won't be happy if that new investor gets the same terms the dragon did. The dragon will feel like 'they made the business better' and therefore the new investor should have to pay a premium to buy in at the same percentage.
@SageTheRage3 жыл бұрын
@@Jessica7318 🎯 💯% correct 👏
@angelogandolfo41743 жыл бұрын
@@Jessica7318 Spot on. In fact, I was quite surprised how much this whole issue, ‘go to’ the dragons, personally, and more of them didn’t see through the situation, to the reality, as you correctly outlined above…….👍
@hamza3613 жыл бұрын
Yeah this doesn’t happen on US shark tank. The UK dragons have the biggest egos and are the most arrogant but write the smallest cheques. 500k offers are so common in shark tank.
@Jessica73183 жыл бұрын
@@hamza361 Interestingly enough I think I've seen this happen on US Shark Tank too? Has Mr Wonderful for instance ever said on US Shark Tank: "Why should I have to pay X amount if so-and-so has invested a fraction of that for the same equity? Am I dumb? Why would I do that?" I seem to recall thinking there are more than a few instances where some US sharks who make the same argument hehe.
@theepicone13 жыл бұрын
The deal fell through after the show, Zapper is still in buisness though and has a revenue of $2 million annually. Go them
@freezasama58023 жыл бұрын
Well it was better the dragons didn't invest then good for them
@daviddoran84743 жыл бұрын
They'd pay you 40 quid for your stuff then sell it for 250, here you are cheering them on
@alphie64203 жыл бұрын
@@daviddoran8474 it's your choice to give it to them, you can sell your stuff on your own if you want and get more. They just give you an option to get instant money.
@readmyprofiledont50603 жыл бұрын
Don't read my name @weekend notes
@readmyprofiledont50603 жыл бұрын
Don't read my name @weekend notes
@shadaba.qureshi43673 жыл бұрын
Debra's logic is crazy (5:10), the value of share depends upon company's balance-sheet as the time goes by... 1 unit share price could be either 1 $ or 100 $ at the start, during raising the same value could be 100 $ or 1 $... the hidden logic is Risk...initial raising is always lucrative for the investor...
@Pickled_Poet2 жыл бұрын
@koiun dwrru I don't know why you replied this on a comment about Deborah, but I appreciated it none the less! I was thinking about that when they went back, and was wondering why his partner didn't sign. It also seems to be a case of developed hearing loss due to age, disease or accident since he can also speak pretty well
@acquiesce100 Жыл бұрын
Debra just makes it all so complicated
@cheryl59943 ай бұрын
@@Pickled_Poet WHAT ON EARTH HAS THIS GUY’S HEARING LOSS GOT TO DO WITH THE PRICE OF MILK? THAT TRULY, HAS TO BE ONE OF THE MOST RIDICULOUS COMMENTS I’VE HAD TO COME ACROSS.
@ASXInvestor3 жыл бұрын
The biggest deal and the biggest title in Dragons Den channel history got us all clicking immediately
@pimpozza3 жыл бұрын
Yes! 🤣🤣
@MusicForHourss3 жыл бұрын
YES
@freezasama58023 жыл бұрын
I swear they say that like 5 times when there are bigger investments
@Asif-kh-n9r3 жыл бұрын
Not really. This pitch has been on KZbin for decades. Part timer.
@pimpozza3 жыл бұрын
@@Asif-kh-n9r *Yes, in fact!* It got us clicking!
@mrh1073 жыл бұрын
8:10 Deborah is so annoyed by the entrepreneur, she subtly gives him the middle finger.
@OraEtLabora03 жыл бұрын
now i cannot unsee it :D well spotted!
@gsuk284 ай бұрын
I used to do that at school! 🤣
@jakecooper58553 жыл бұрын
I'm surprised there was no discussion about how it can scale. The technology is the easy part, the expensive part is the manual labour required to process the incoming stock and outgoing orders. That massive pile on the table only generates 20 pounds of net profit.. That is a lot of work for 20 quid! Maybe they did discuss it and that didn't make the edit
@marleymclean47563 жыл бұрын
There probably was, these pitches can last hours we only see the chopped and screwed versions
@siddhantmishra79503 жыл бұрын
Discussing how it can scale just makes one investor weaker in front of an other u guess
@SirTorcharite2 жыл бұрын
Just have the seller hold the item until the sale is made. The seller sends you the items sold. The buyer sends you money. You take your escrow fees, shipping and processing fees out. The rest after taxes goes back to the seller. Easy, convenient, and safe. Could even have a verification service where once the escrow receives the items they send 5-6 photos for transaction approval. Keeps people from being ripped off with damaged products photographed well.
@cl4udease2 жыл бұрын
I think 20£ is the profit after all the labour involved
@Ludak021 Жыл бұрын
@@SirTorcharite Cannot be done like that in this instance. The appealing thing, and the core thing really, is that the business pays for items immediately THEN they sell it, when they sell it. So you basically have to give salaries for enough people to not have any delays even when the business is slow. They are probably bleeding money on salaries and not have enough left to invest in further growth. Hence the DD appearance. Increasing the volume would extract much higher value from the employees. Whether any of it is realistic or not, I don't really care.
@Jordothecat983 жыл бұрын
I often think dragons get offended for no reason but those shareholders didn’t put in 50k years ago, it was recent. So I get the irritation at being asked to do 250k for 7.5%
@JuliuszCovers3 жыл бұрын
I understand the emotional reaction, but the fact is that they should pay whatever the company is worth. If he had two copies of a priceless book and sold one for next to nothing for whatever reason, the other copy is still priceless. You can be jealous of the buyer who was lucky and got a better deal, but you can’t get offended and claim that a fair price is not fair.
@sh3tpostsgamertime2043 жыл бұрын
@@JuliuszCovers yeah but its not grown that much
@JuliuszCovers3 жыл бұрын
@@sh3tpostsgamertime204 It doesn’t need to have grown. Perhaps he made a mistake selling so cheap. What’s done is done, but he doesn’t need to make the same mistake a second time by using the same valuation.
@user-yp3oj5se1i3 жыл бұрын
That's not the worst thing about money use.
@sh3tpostsgamertime2043 жыл бұрын
@@JuliuszCovers its still insulting, the company isnt worth 3.5x more than it was. Its either naivety or greed and both arent good for the investors.
@trunderwood3 жыл бұрын
This aired in 2012 and Ben left Zapper three years later. It's not clear what happened to Zapper as a company (it appears to still be trading), but it is clear that Theo et al - who know retail and "I see the future" - didn't even ask about the effect of digital media / streaming on a business like this. Genius investment.
@Randomaccount9470 Жыл бұрын
The deal pulled through, he was mugging them,p.s thier company is over 2 mil worth
@BenjaminGoose3 ай бұрын
Et al?
@trunderwood3 ай бұрын
@@BenjaminGoose 'and others'
@chipbuttytime33963 ай бұрын
@@Randomaccount9470 Valued at negative £1M in 2024
@LiberateYou3 жыл бұрын
First time I've seen someone deaf in the den! Its inspiring to see people with disabilities being successful!
@Ghostchanter3 жыл бұрын
yeah but when consulting to the wall am I wrong that they were just talking to each other with no signing?
@bash5473 жыл бұрын
The deaf guy was lip reading his partner but he misjudged the volume of his voice and Theo heard their conversation .
@gentlemancoal3 жыл бұрын
@@Ghostchanter yeah wtf was that about haha
@Don-Carillo3 жыл бұрын
@@Ghostchanter i was about to ask the same question
@FlameFlickers3 жыл бұрын
@@mzahra1 Finds out all her secrets anytime he goes down on a girl..
@kmlau19862 жыл бұрын
For those that are confused about why the dragons are baffled about the big jump in the valuation between the rounds of funding, in general startups, we often see a 2-3X increase in valuations between early rounds of funding. What this guy is asking for is a 20X increase. That's absolutely bonkers, especially without any good real financials to back it.
@ccc32 жыл бұрын
Yup, like Deborah pointed out, the company's financials haven't changed much since the previous funding round (weak cash flow), so the dragons feel like they're being ripped off if investing at 20x that valuation.
@SiriusMined3 жыл бұрын
I don't know why they're getting insulted. If the other investors put money in before the business was trading, they were taking a bigger risk. Now investors are coming in after it's established itself and the company has more value than it used to. What's the mystery? If you want to say the valuation is too high, that's probably true. But to be insulted is just ridiculous.
@edwinromilly46453 жыл бұрын
That was i was deliberating too!!Good point, but it was too high maybe 125k more befitting lol.. Don’t think they gave him enough credit though for all he had achieved.But turn over vanity profit sanity lol😚
@wildnfree1013 жыл бұрын
I really enjoyed this one. Theo was excellent, being prepared to move from 30% to 30%. The guy let the cat out of the bag, telling the Dragons he got £50,000 for 30% of the business earlier.
@thealien_ali33823 жыл бұрын
Exactly, he shouldn't have told them.
@aldrichchimezie78483 жыл бұрын
They would have eventually know
@lenwty48502 жыл бұрын
Interesting point. But if he hadn’t mentioned it, due diligence would’ve uncovered the detail and likely then not allowing the deal to go through
@isaiahpero78372 жыл бұрын
50,000 pounds of what?
@ahmadfirdauz63222 жыл бұрын
I'm very sure the Dragons will eventually find out before they put pen to paper..
@michaelolson69823 жыл бұрын
Apparently at 30% the valuation of the company fell to £833,333.33p just by changing the percentage of the valuation a option that was available to all dragons that went out.
@kevinprior3549 Жыл бұрын
That's very precise isn't it?
@beastritualist97343 жыл бұрын
Didn't even notice all the Dragon's autobiographies he bought with him until just now
@BB-ec4ss3 жыл бұрын
The devil is in the detail, that's why we are watching them make the deals...
@severalwolves7 ай бұрын
yep, along with some really awful, bargain bin DVDs haha
@TreesRgreen1234 ай бұрын
I was waiting on Duncan asking him to zap the barcode of his book to see how much the site valued it at
@Jamie_Winsh3 жыл бұрын
I'm surprised Theo gave away so much of his children's inheritance
@E4STWOOD3 жыл бұрын
The example books are written by the dragons, nice touch.
@cybersechs13683 жыл бұрын
You sure?? That's the crap the guy is trying to OFFLOAD hahaha
@severalwolves7 ай бұрын
yup along with a bunch of bargain bin CDs and DVDs - _that’s_ the thing that should have offended them!
@david_hartley3 жыл бұрын
These Dragons get so insulted so quickly. They take it so personally, just say you’re out and move on!
@OraEtLabora03 жыл бұрын
TV drama, entertainment category
@Yobbie723 жыл бұрын
The term is to take something "personally" not "purposely".
@david_hartley3 жыл бұрын
@@Yobbie72 cheers bro, didn’t spot the typo! Have a great weekend
@leopardgeckocrazy3 жыл бұрын
They have such fragile egos. Peter and Deborah are the worst for it.
@Jessica73183 жыл бұрын
Hello David. So I do believe I get where you're coming from with the comment here. Very often the dragons can go over the top with their replies. This being said, I think the show would be extremely boring if they just said they were 'out' and moved on. Entertainment value aside... one of the things that I love about this show is the business discussion around it. When a dragon goes out they can go out for any number of reasons, and often times those reasons can seem hypocritical. - In one pitch, they may say: "It's a crazy idea, I can't justify getting involved. I'm out." - In a similar pitch, they may say: "It's a crazy idea, but you know what, I'm going to take a punt." - In another idea they may say: "I'm not an ideal partner for you. The dragon to my left (or right) is in this space, so I'm out. - In a similar pitch they may say: "I'm not an ideal partner for you, so I'm going to offer you a better deal because I 'love' this idea and think I can still be 'some' help and would like to be a part of it." - In a 3rd instance, one of the contrasts you'll hear is: "You're asking for too little money, it won't be enough to do what you want to do, so I'm out." - In a similar pitch, they may say: "You've asked for a lot of money. If you'd asked for less, I could say 'I'll take a punt!' but at that price... it's just too much for me to get involved. I'll never see a return, so I'm out." - And sometimes you'll hear: "I like it... and I'm on the fence, honestly. But you know what, on this one... I'm going to be out. And you know what-? I could be missing the biggest thing. I might very well regret this'." - And of course the mirror: "I could go either way on this. I've been weighing the pros and cons. You've definitely got something here, but the question is can you execute on it and make it something. I'm going to make you an offer." The dragons have a very interesting situation in that not all great pitches have to receive money. They don't all get 'entitled' to investment. Someone who makes a good pitch might not get investment because a dragon is just in the mindset of 'great' pitches that day. You could have a business that is doing well, come through a hard time, turns the tide and is now becoming profitable. It's a great story. But the dragon may not invest in you because they believe the pitch after you has a chance of being something 'better'. Someone making tonnes of profit... etc. We see all these pitches and we root for the entrepreneurs thinking if they do well enough, we don't understand why they don't get investment. From a dragon's point of view. the good could be the enemy of great. A decent entrepreneur who's struggling but doing their best may not get an offer simply because the dragon believes strongly that later in the day they have good odds of hearing a pitch that is much better than this one. Now dragons can't know what the future pitches will be, but as Kevin O'Leary says: "I can make great offers for fantastic deals, because if you don't take it, someone else will walk in that door behind you and they will take it. They'll take my money and become successful." etc.
@THEVIEW-tx5yd3 жыл бұрын
I'm so glad they rejected the deal after the Den. Wanting 30pc of a company turning over 1 million for just 100,000 is such an unfair deal.
@E4STWOOD3 жыл бұрын
Sales (turnover) is vanity, profit is sanity, and cash is king. The turnover was £1m, but the net profit was only £35k. Why is this unfair?
@freezasama58023 жыл бұрын
You know that most entrepreneurs never intend to get a deal they just want to be advertised on tv for free Peter stated this in an interview about dragons den
@THEVIEW-tx5yd3 жыл бұрын
@@freezasama5802 Companies going through rapid growth often lack net profir. 660k projected turnover. And the fact they rejected and the company is worth hundreds of millions shows this.
@gothicgolem29473 жыл бұрын
@@freezasama5802 not most some do
@keaton7182 жыл бұрын
Well it's not the Teddy Bear's Den. You should expect a dragon to be ruthless and underhanded.
@penitent24012 жыл бұрын
Those 3 early investors put in the money when the business was at the most risk years ago and provided the expertise to get it up. Now it is up and running and generating solid revenue and looking to expand. Of course the value goes up.
@HighTen_Melanie3 жыл бұрын
Feels like we’ve entered a new Time zone when Dragons’ Den isn’t uploaded at midday!
@mandofan26163 жыл бұрын
thumbs down for clickbait
@loganbombard3743 жыл бұрын
For me it was always 7 AM hahaha
@HighTen_Melanie3 жыл бұрын
@@loganbombard374 Brilliant 😂
@scottlove18323 жыл бұрын
blame Covid....they do for everything else.
@FretfulBadass3 жыл бұрын
Ikr 🙄💜
@Jay-in6dl2 жыл бұрын
It’s mad that the dragons don’t seem to understand that the business has grown since those initial investments.
@bdcalling13913 жыл бұрын
The initial investors took a risk by investing £50k each in the first place, the dragons are picking up a semi finished service so would have endured less risk.
@financialchimes45462 жыл бұрын
They didn't invest 50k each, they invested 50k in total.
@wheelsofafrica2 жыл бұрын
Exactly.
@kyleabraham26553 жыл бұрын
I hate when they ask why do they have to pay more than other investors... because the business is worth more now... Imagine trying to buy Amazon and telling Bezo “but your shares didn’t cost you that much when you started the business”
@markmalin7425 Жыл бұрын
Anyone got a tissue?
@markmalin7425 Жыл бұрын
Or maybe a wide range of services and solutions to the aforementioned comestibles
@markmalin7425 Жыл бұрын
Send me a copy of the most important part of the day
@dannyholmes51563 жыл бұрын
No point in Jenny getting involved with dvds and indoor entertainment as she's constantly out
@rumelahmed45396 ай бұрын
She clocked out a few years ago. RiP lol
@arthurkettle30102 жыл бұрын
Everything I detest about this show...the rudeness, the arrogance, the exploitation and greed - is encapsulated by this clip
@pimpozza3 жыл бұрын
Heard this deal fell through after the show in 2012 but Zapper UK is still going strong today
@chipbuttytime33963 ай бұрын
going strong with 1 million in liabilities lol
@elzterr3 жыл бұрын
They have an app now, I downloaded it must have been 2 years ago to see what I would get for my books. 15 - 25 pence per book. I think I'd rather keep them!
@polarisgemini523 жыл бұрын
Isn't it better to sell them directly to some bookshop? Bet you would get more for it although you would have to physically carry the book and do some bargaining. That's how we losers do it in India lol
@Lonely_Goat3 жыл бұрын
I don't get Deborah's argument. So what if the 3 angel investors got a great deal, that don't mean you get the same deal now the company is up and running. I tried an app like this. Put 4 book in and gave me a 75 pence valuation.
@Just60seconds-UK2 жыл бұрын
same with me
@haynesgames72603 жыл бұрын
When Matt went to the back with the other bloke, it's almost like he could hear again without sign language
@MichaelBylehn3 жыл бұрын
Many can read lips and he might be hearing impaired instead of fully deaf.
@biscuit42593 жыл бұрын
@@MichaelBylehn and he’ll be very familiar with his speech patterns.
@madness550218 күн бұрын
What? He was whispering in the dark… Yet in the light he needed an interpreter
@SR1Records2 жыл бұрын
Used Zapper and Music Magpie a few times. Couldn't be arsed with listing each CD/DVD individually and paying fees and postage on them. Makes so much more sense for individuals to just use Zapper/ Music Magpie to get s slightly lesser profit without the hassle of posting individual items and wondering how much you will get after eBay/PayPal fees.
@Technicallyimright3 жыл бұрын
Of course the revenues on a business like this will be massive, but the margin would be tiny. They’re buying video games for £5 and selling them for like £8. Turnover is vanity, profit is sanity. You shouldn’t have to turnover a million to make £35k in profit lol.
@thetriggerxp3 жыл бұрын
they pay you 1p per game and you need to sell at least 5 pounds or the app won't work, that company is a joke
@danhudson46143 жыл бұрын
@@thetriggerxp I hate these types of rip off merchants. I'm glad none of them invested. 😌
@pauldenino63503 жыл бұрын
year 2 they 8x turnover but 20x net profit... yea right
@YouTubeTOS3 жыл бұрын
Peter never rejects so quickly! He always listens to others than gives his own input lmao
@HaveAGreatDayStranger3 жыл бұрын
The other investors invested before the business generated as much revenue as it is now! They are paying for the pudding, the proof is already baked. The other people paid when it was just a recipe. They saw he (for some reason) did not reason about this himself and they leveraged his ignorance with guilt and intimidation. I wish he had gathered the sense to say that. They know its true, they're just happy the con worked.
@Jessica73183 жыл бұрын
D C... very astute. The dragons get to leverage a situation where if he answers a question brazenly or boldly, he comes off as bullying or arrogant. Example: Entrepreneur: "Well they got this deal because we were at a desperate period, unproven, and they really helped us through a tight spot. They made a noticeable difference to our business and so they got that discount." Potential Dragon reply: "Oh, and you don't think I'll make a noticeable difference to your business? Do you not think I'll bring remarkable value to your business? Am I not worth the same discount? If I'm going to come on board and make this contribution to you, shouldn't I be paid the same way these other people were, whom you value so highly?" The 'realistic' answer is that these other investors were in the right place at the right time to take a big risk and get a sweetheart deal because of it. The dragons can pitch this narrative in a way that if the entrepreneur is very 'honest' with them, the entrepreneur can be trapped in however they answer. It's a lot like the word game the dragons play when it comes to valuation: - If a company is struggling, the dragon will say: "I'll buy in, but this is what it's worth today. I can't pay more than that." And when the entrepreneur replies: "Well my valuation is based on what we can do if you join us." the dragon says: "I can't pay today what it'll be worth in a year's time after I've been involved. This is what it's worth today, this is what I'll pay, and then together we can build it." - If a company is thriving, and the entrepreneur is justified in giving a little percentage for a lot of money because the business is doing so well, the dragon will often say: "Yes well I'm valuing my time. When I get involved, I'm going to make this very big for you. So this is the percentage I want." When the company is doing very well, the entrepreneur is asking for a reasonable price to the day's value, the dragon is quick to point out that: "When I get involved, we'll be making this much bigger, that's why I can ask for more." but when the business is struggling and not doing all that well, the dragon is the first to say: "Yes, when I get involved maybe we'll make it big, but that's my upside for taking the risk. You can't ask me to pay more today than it's worth just because of the potential my involvement adds." Now to be clear... I don't blame the dragons for this. This is shrewd business, and very often, the art of getting a great deal is knowing how to negotiate a narrative and see how you can get the best bargain. Sometimes that means selling the future hard to justify why you want more now. Other times that means 'blocking' that move from the other person, and answering: "You can't ask me to pay for the future today." and very often the dragons make these moves just to see how the entrepreneur will react. Will they become anxious? Awkward? Will they feel 'bullied' or even worse, made to feel like they're insulting the dragons when it's not their intent (but the way the dragons word a question makes any answer hard to navigate because it can 'sound' bad hehe). I do so love watching Dragons Den. :D
@TaskSwitcherify3 жыл бұрын
Not entirely true. Maybe he developed new pricing algorithms and re-sale channels; exponentially grew his customer base showing massive traction, expanded the product recognition database to millions of new products, etc. That's why the company could be worth so much more now.
@carolineyoungs58782 жыл бұрын
I always look at old versions Of Dragons Den then look at todays valuation of company. Nov 2022 this company is now worth 3 million. Well done Theo.
@drummingspain2072 жыл бұрын
Apparently the deal fell through after the show
@thestarshavefallen Жыл бұрын
According to their trust pilot they haven't been accepting trades for months due to "essential maintenance"
@greeneyebandit79492 жыл бұрын
This guy is a genius, got free advertising and now is making his dough
@chipbuttytime33963 ай бұрын
he left the business 7 years before your comment, the business is worth minus 1 million pounds now... liabilities
@alexwinter67203 жыл бұрын
What an insanely intelligent pair of individuals
@davidjma72262 жыл бұрын
Makes a change
@finnishinsider15692 жыл бұрын
Really?! At 4:14, evidently he doesn't even know the difference between brought and bought.
@LuxuryLenoxLuditoryLuthorLob3 ай бұрын
@@finnishinsider1569nerves
@riceman782 жыл бұрын
The question the Dragons failed to ask before getting upset is "When did the previous investors buy in and Why was the business valued lower at the time the other investors bought in?"
@stroketheboat Жыл бұрын
I think you'll find that it was a point the person requesting £250K failed to make and it cost him 20% of his business. That being said, it wouldn't have been lost on the DD that an early stage business would be a much lower value than a business valued later on - that is just the basic rule of growth.
@kylebusc36243 жыл бұрын
Is 250k seriously the biggest investment ever on dragons den? Thats way lower than I would expect
@LPCLASSICAL2 жыл бұрын
most of the deals are micky mouse money like £40K.
@IPLACEIcom2 жыл бұрын
deaf guy has good energy and is a sweetheart, i hope they are very successful
@TheManInBlueFlames3 жыл бұрын
Props to Matt, that technician who appears to be partially deaf.
@SpyroTek3 жыл бұрын
Props for?
@KLC64323 жыл бұрын
Appears? I think it's obvious seeing that a sign lagnuage translater was there.
@TheManInBlueFlames3 жыл бұрын
Well it seems as if he's able to hear the other guy when he whispers. So he's partially deaf only.
@KLC64323 жыл бұрын
@@TheManInBlueFlames didn't read my reply too well...
@jasonbored83193 жыл бұрын
Ok?
@R_Ali3 жыл бұрын
The look on Duncan’s face was priceless 😂
@MENDNZ3 жыл бұрын
Surely..the early investors who keep the company alive at crucial times get the better deal?
@petrov31902 жыл бұрын
I get that the dragons felt offended by the offer shortly after they heard that other investors got their portion of equity for much less money, but they should have looked for the potential of the company instead of their ego and emotions getting in their heads. Anyway, they hold the cards and have the rights to be offended and complain of any deal they receive.
@PCallahanPhilly3 жыл бұрын
Peter Jones, the delicate flower of the Den. Always feeling insulted.
@RobertAgarHutton2 жыл бұрын
I used to watch DD and often thought that it was more about presenting something to the TV audience rather than actually getting an investment.
@clockspells66283 жыл бұрын
30 percent is actually a very risky deal because theres 3 other people with 10 percent if the buiseness was succesful the dragon can just buy like 21 percent of the stock and he owns the company
@drummingspain2072 жыл бұрын
Not how it works - it's not a company trading on the stock market so effectively it's not for sale
@guyfromostrava3 жыл бұрын
I don't get why the guys are annoyed by past investors receiving a higher percentage for a much lower stake. Obviously, I don't know anything about Zapper, but I can imagine when Microsoft launched from a garage you could have gotten a much MUCH better deal then than now. If you're as startup you're willing to give much more for less... When you gain traction, it's natural that you expect much more money for the same percentage...
@ianrae1546 Жыл бұрын
Absolutely spot on. It genuinely stuns me that these 3 “business people” didn’t seem to grasp this logic 😂😂😂
@johnlocke19773 жыл бұрын
When dragons throw a hissy fit over investors at other rates, in the event that theyre initial investors for a larger sum, that makes sense. They paid and paved the way for it to be where it is.
@matthewbell42733 жыл бұрын
It seems from people’s comments that the deal fell through. I imagine one reason may have been that after the entrepreneur ran the dilution calculations he realised he’d lose control (70% x his pre-Dragons-Den 70% = 49%).
@financialchimes45462 жыл бұрын
I haven't watched the video yet, but I can immediately tell you your calculation is probably incorrect. It's not 70% of 70%, his share is 70%/130%=53.8%.
@jamesflames69872 жыл бұрын
He's selling 30% of the whole business, not just of his stake.
@9k492 жыл бұрын
I’m with the dragons on this. Yes a business goes up in value over time but not by 20x in less than a year. And he admitted the valuation was based off the investment and influenced by projections
@rosemccartney15382 жыл бұрын
Yeah it does, i’m sure the company was worth 10 dollars at some point. And probably grew 10.000% within a few weeks.
@marcusmishima3 жыл бұрын
PLEASE DONT RUIN THE OUTCOMES IN THE TITLE. THANK YOU 🙂
@lincoln71843 жыл бұрын
Theo the Foetus: "I AIN'T BUDGIN!". Doctor: "Ok nurse, it's gonna be a cesarean".
@retro-wreck3 жыл бұрын
With a 30% cut
@MakingMixesLol3 жыл бұрын
THEO THE FOETUS 😂😂😂
@luciengranger27623 жыл бұрын
Lmfao...
@majortom-ey7yj7 ай бұрын
And for that reason, he is out
@irishnftgal2 жыл бұрын
He should have been able to explain further when the first dragon got insulted. To ensure there wasn’t a ripple effect. Might have saved him 10% there
@rossi180 Жыл бұрын
This why Theo will always be the best dragon of all time. Sure Peter is the coolest, but Theo is the king
@paulpaul463 жыл бұрын
The biggest clickbait in dragon’s den history lol
@henrysmith883 Жыл бұрын
I miss Theo so much. He’s brilliant.
@TheBloodshower26 күн бұрын
6:00 I would NEVER accept an apple offered by this woman
@Drenwickification3 жыл бұрын
2:00 PGR2 and RS3... 2 games i used to play an absurd amount when i was a kid... good times
@superkopite3 жыл бұрын
What do these companies do with the CDs, DVDs etc once they buy them?
@dimitrz20002 жыл бұрын
I think the ego came into to play here for the Dragons, You cannot really compare old investment into a company on par with current investment. For all you know the previous investment of 50000 pounds at the inception of the business would be worth its weight in gold. Those investors belived in him when no one else probably did. So theoretically that old investment could be equivalent to 25000 pounds at present valuation.
@jasonhurd43792 жыл бұрын
Theo: 'I'm gonna make you an offer' *Peter's soul withers and dies*
@YasmeenKhan3 жыл бұрын
I tried it once, about 80% of the books I scanned it refused to take anyway. all modern fiction, so I understand they might have had a lot of copies of them, but it makes it completely pointless to use
@danielcrockett83983 жыл бұрын
It's useless. They only want the most recent and specific games for example. A game that cost £50, has been available for one day, they will offer something pathetic like £6.99. You could walk to CEX and get £30 at least for a new release. It's laughable.
@retro-wreck3 жыл бұрын
Do they reseal it and sell it or sell it as used.
@sUASNews3 жыл бұрын
My late friend Derek actually began this company, starting near Chard in Somerset and expanding to a spot in Glastonbury. I think it was called the Book Barn and it all seems a million years ago.
@Thundershrooms3 жыл бұрын
🧢
@simonbird97312 жыл бұрын
Wow, the was a book barn that went under in Bristol paintwork, I got my self a few coding books, however I have used zapper, and got £50 quit for what I would have given to charity. I like car boot sales, and this is just that really...
@christophercolumbus89442 жыл бұрын
Zapper was set up in 2009 by founders Ben Hardyment and Mat White. We are an ambitious technology company with plans to radically innovate in mobile and online retail. In October 2012 (filmed in May 2012) we appeared on BBC Dragons’ Den and secured a record offer of £250,000 in investment from Theo Paphitis.
@Majormoose1 Жыл бұрын
You have offered literally no new information
@canag0d2 жыл бұрын
How does the announcer guy always know what the Dragons are thinking and going to do every time! He is psychic!
@heene3 жыл бұрын
The other dragons were too quick to quit because they were 'insulted' and should have gone for more equity like Theo did. By the look on their faces I think they might have regretted turning him down. 10 years later I would imagine there are several services and like this and quite a bit of competiton.
@dimitrz20002 жыл бұрын
Or because they didn't have that much money 🤣
@thelegend52432 жыл бұрын
If he would have come in and said that in terms of owning a business, and being experienced that he is the equivalent of owning an amateur Sunday League football club, and the Dragons are the equivalent of being a Sheik who owns a Premier League club, but he’s asking for their experience, wealth and contacts, to make him bigger and better, I think he would have got more dragons to invest.
@wheelsofafrica2 жыл бұрын
Delighted to hear that the deal fell through, and that Zapper is flourishing! Not called Sharks for nothing, and they were offended - poor darlings!
@TheMightofDab2 жыл бұрын
They're not called sharks..
@kevinprior3549 Жыл бұрын
These are dragons
@Worldexplorer23907 ай бұрын
1:48 anyone know the name of the music?
@daveymorgan9093 жыл бұрын
They didn't screw anything up Deborah. WRONG again 😄
@AdamBechtol3 жыл бұрын
Don't often see Theo snatch up what the other Dragons turned down.
@TheSuicidalCake3 жыл бұрын
"hello matt im theo" matt: O_O
@josephgreen20083 жыл бұрын
That business is now worth 485 million pounds in 2021.Lessons to be learned by investors .Never let you EGO get in the way(Usually it is emotions) of doing a deal.
@Darknesssleeps3 жыл бұрын
It’s not worth 485 million lol. That’s Peter Jones net worth
@josephgreen20083 жыл бұрын
@@Darknesssleeps Just looked that up again.You are right Walter ,The message is still valid though about never letting your Ego get in the way of an investment. Have a good day.
@1Animeculture3 жыл бұрын
I think they had soooome ego here, the dragons that is. Yeah there were other investors getting the same slice for much cheeper but you really cant blame em, it was a much less evaluation back then, they are just really sore in their asses that they didnt get to go innon the deal earlier :D
@misszara7863 жыл бұрын
This business has actually done well
@kevinjohnson95732 жыл бұрын
How does Matt go from needing a signer to hearing whispers at the back of the room 😂
@rikardandersson66522 жыл бұрын
Reading lips..
@kevinjohnson95732 жыл бұрын
@@rikardandersson6652 yes so what was the need of a signer to begin with.
@rikardandersson66522 жыл бұрын
@@kevinjohnson9573 ...its a studio..lights blinding from the dens, distance, get a flow of comunication in tv. Is this really rocket science???🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️
@kevinjohnson95732 жыл бұрын
@@rikardandersson6652 you make lip reading sound like rocket science
@rikardandersson66522 жыл бұрын
@@kevinjohnson9573 😘
@ccggenius3 жыл бұрын
So... how does the system factor in condition? There's a big difference between a gently used item and something that was bought when a library did inventory clearance.
@klorrigan14043 жыл бұрын
You’d think with all the money Hilary has, she could be able to spend some money on a better wig
@beastritualist97343 жыл бұрын
It's Jenny in disguise
@klorrigan14043 жыл бұрын
@@beastritualist9734 she just doesn’t want to go out to buy one 👀
@finnishinsider15692 жыл бұрын
4:14 Never go into business with somebody who evidently doesn't even know the difference between brought and bought.
@kevin084life2 жыл бұрын
This has to be the biggest rabbit out of the hat investment in Dragons Den history.
@PrawnWaters3 жыл бұрын
2:32 Just as Pizza Jones realises, “And here comes the Bannatyne fuckery “
@mdlyonn0035 Жыл бұрын
Not really the “biggest deal” when the deal never went through 😂
@sharpsonmusic8 ай бұрын
10:36 I was hoping he'd just do a 360 rotation with a fake mustache and go "Hullo, I'm Matt and this deal is Cookoo!"
@collydub19873 жыл бұрын
The people who founded CEX: This is a good idea.
@ScratchyBaws2 жыл бұрын
I've heard and bought from Music Magpie for years, still never heard of Zapper.
@runiquepro58153 жыл бұрын
I think I'm going to go on here. I need a £1 million pound investment to bring some product over from Eastern Europe and I'm willing to pay them back £3 Million in 6 months and give them a 5% share of the profits thereafter. Dragons: What could we bring to the business apart from the money? Me: Your private jets.
@gothicgolem29473 жыл бұрын
Tbh they would likely have other questions before like your valuation and why you think you’ll make so much
@jonathanrussell5943 жыл бұрын
As soon as rain man turned up.. It was a win win. 🤔
@MikeWalls78293 жыл бұрын
2:17 Duncan tries to look cool by working out figures, but makes himself look like a school kid reeling off the 3s, a much cooler approach would be to say, "so it's about 3.3 mil... and move on.
@scrapstation68232 жыл бұрын
Shares in stock market never remain the same and when a company/business grown up the share price goes up.
@S.Trades3 ай бұрын
Demand is what pushes up a share price.
@scrapstation68233 ай бұрын
@@S.Trades Demand never pushes up if company s not growing or going in loss.
@WaqarHussain-te7ft Жыл бұрын
I feel deeply annoyed and angry that I can no longer buy shares in Tesla for what they were at when they first started trading 😤
@MrNick-3 жыл бұрын
Wait, the other investors purchased at a fair price at that time… you would think “dragons” would be smart enough to think of that