The Biggest Mistake People Make When Building Army Lists! | Warhammer 40,000

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[@mikeg8564]

I really wish pipes, wall, statues were used more, they're so much fun

[@comeon000]

Because not *every* battle on *every* planet in 40k is in a dense city, and because the game itself should have variety, I think tournaments should include at least one table where terrain is comparatively light. Give a reason to own those really big models or to list build with a mind for how to handle open shooting lanes for a single game.

[@danielhughes3758]

Some armies just fall apart if the terrain is too sparse and they're playing against an army with some good ranged shooting. I think having lighter terrain can be perfectly fine, but if it goes too far then it can ruin the game. If the game comes down to being an open shooting gallery where whoever goes first is highly favored since whoever goes second loses like a third of their army and victory points don't really matter then that's going to make for very bad 40K. Way too dense terrain can conversely make melee armies overpowered. It's always a balance, but it can be tricky to get great variation and still keep it balanced.

[@Gromeish]

I played a teams event where there were 3 terrain options, heavy, medium and lite. It Added another fun layer of complexity to working out who was fighting who and how we built our lists.

[@comeon000]

​@@Gromeish I'm a big fan of that set up!

[@comeon000]

@@danielhughes3758 I agree with generally holding off the extremes. That said, having a variety of tables at an event also means that one cannot go all in on a single terrain type build.

[@DiceandGlory]

​@@GromeishITT?

[@Jay-zk7uw]

To a Mordian Guardsman, terrain only dictates how many men deep your lines are.

[@dustinmckay4953]

All of the fairest games I've played have been player-placed, where you can put it anywhere on the board (not just "your half") and where it's done before deployment side has been determined

[@Wind-Whistler]

Your description of GW terrain was rather brief. You covered how it was mostly a bunch of ruins, but you didn’t talk about how it compares to UKTC and WTC setups in terms of overall density and availability of shooting and movement lanes.

[@musicalcharge]

It's basically halfway. There are usually a few firing lanes that go one edge to the other across an objective, but not too many, and the ruins don't take up as much of the footprint. I think it's the goldilocks zone. WTC is just too much.

[@primalbiomechanics-willmon6166]

MORDIAN YOU FREAKY PSYCHIC MIND READER!! I literally had a mind bending, game breaking battle of 40K last night where the player I was facing revealed the true nature of ruins, and the rules associated. That you can hide in them, and as long as your not touching them, you can't be seen, or see out. This then got me thinking about Ratlings and Sly Marbo, and their jump shoot jump abilities, you could simply hide within (but not touching) the ruins, make your move during your turn to then butt up against the ruin with the models base, get some head shots in, and then scarper back a mere millimetre into the ruin again to be completely hidden, and unable to be shot at. AAAND, with plunging fire, get some saucy bonus AP+1. Gorilla warfare of the 41st millenium.

[@alexandercain8904]

There have been a few times I've had player placed terrain where you set up a big piece in your deployment zone, the mid-field, and your opponent's zone; your opponent does the same thing. That way there's six big terrain pieces that have been deployed fairly, and I think it works reasonably well. Note that this is done before deployment, so if you or your opponent has something big like a Stompa/Baneblade/Monolith then it can't get boxed before the game even starts.

[@Nick_the_Salamander]

LLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL IIIIIIIIIIIII There's all your terrain go have fun

[@Sirilere]

All battles at a tournament should be based upon one world in the lore and provide a variety of the terrain types to be found on that planet. This would give army list builders a clue as to what needs to be strong in their list.

[@Centaur255]

This is a really good point - great video as always! In most game systems your army list may find itself less effective because the terrain (which is mostly out of your control) may dictate the effectiveness of your list, even before factoring in player skill. I've seen a lot of people run shooting-heavy armies and then find they're playing on an urban map and the firing lanes exist, but are pretty limited and the other player can work around them. But I think tournaments are best when there's a variety of density for terrain: if all boards will have a lot of terrain, assault units and close range units will be more effective, while open tables favor skirmish and long range units. Having a mix forces players to make plans without a lot of certainty which tables they will get

[@AlexanderMharcei]

really good video, MG. I deeper dive into each might be worth it -- maybe add example lists?

[@greynite1]

LOVE these Articles Some fantastic thoughts on Terrain and Setup and how it applies. Keep Em Comin My friend!

[@GoldsnakeSC2]

disregard terrain, acquire indirect fire

[@CatherinePuce]

Some armies have little to no choice with indirect fire.

[@GoldsnakeSC2]

@CatherinePuce then welcome to the Guard!

[@Pestilencemage]

Seriously though: I want to make a terrain piece to hold my spare parts, like the alternate weapons for my sentinal and knight. Basically a field refit station run by the regimental enginseer. Serving as a display site, functional refit station, annnnd ideally a functional standard terrain piece. No clue what to do cuz I've only GOT my freshly finished knight model, painting my tech-priest and sentinel. I MIGHT have ordered a small set of cavalry and Kriegers (the only regiment that responded kindly to my call. Something about being thrilled for so certain a success in paying their debt to the emperor under my command?) But we'll see if they are what was advertised.

[@Pestilencemage]

So... any indication on what I am allowed to do to this end without compromising it as a valid tournament grade terrain piece would be very helpful.

[@Damnedlegion40k]

Add a comment...

[@EmperorZanan]

+1 comment 🫡

[@jonno8618]

2 replies 🫡

[@nomore2226]

Airplanes!!!!

[@bigbigbear58]

Lots of use of the GW format in Canada. It seems to be a nice balance.

[@johnhickman8391]

Commented to keep from being Servitude Imperpitues......Yes, yes, I did hit the like.

[@IscariottActual]

Where do i find the gw terrain layouts on their website?

[@LoneWolverine1]

On the official download page near the bottom is the leviathan tournament companion download pdf, has the 4 main terrain layouts

[@Pestilencemage]

Soooooo I don't play tabletop yet (working on it... it ain't a quick game to join) buuuut how mad would guard players at tournaments get when they find out you replaced a troop here or there with one of your genestealers? And do you get disqualified for insisting that your genestealer cult is an astera militarum list? Cuz the ref says it's all totally fine. ...that one over there with the 3 arms.

[@piotrjeske4599]

I wish l could play my army , the way l want it (100% terminators and nothing else, maybe a contemptors or two , because they look like terminators) and have fun.

[@dannyhalas9408]

You know I used to think you'd sold out (well of course you have) but then I saw Vanguard tactics trying to sell £500 courses with information freely available on channels like yours. This ain't so bad.

[@tommo9757]

I would suspect Vanguard are offering guided play sessions. Whilst Mordian's tactica tips are good, there's nothing like playing with someone who's showing you best practice to increase your knowledge. It's up to you to decide whether that's worth £500.

[@dannyhalas9408]

@@tommo9757 It's a video library, with nothing I haven't seen before on other channels. Video tuition is extra. So no I don't think it's worth it, the Internet is crawling with scams like this. There's absolutely nothing to tell you that they know more than anyone else. I'd put these guys in a similar bracket to the type of person that would sell you a course on affiliate marketing behind a Lamborghini. I also know the battle reports on his site are absolute bullshit. A friend of mine played him, crushed him in three turns. So they just reshot, muscleman rewrote his list, explained that he wanted to be on team England and then narrowly won their next game. My friend had to sit through an excruciating post game analysis where Mr vanguard tactics talked about all the brilliant plays he'd made. The guy is an absolute charlatan.

[@operator9858]

Best episode you've ever done. Which is good because your content has been nose diving :p

[@Madlarkin00]

Terrain is important... but every battlefield being a super dense ruined city fight is crap. I feel the fact of building your list to fight the terrain makes list building 1 dimensional and boring af. Not saying we should be on planet bowling ball, but it shouldnt be where you cant draw more than 20 inches line of sight

[@samyeru6692]

Even how secondaries work force you to play a one dimensional army...