The Bizarre Reason So Many Fantasy Authors Are Mormon ✏️ 📖

[@15arael]

Analyzing Mormonism in twilight would be very interesting! as someone not religious that might have missed those details

[@Volzotran]

Yes please! There are some similar videos on this already but none from someone who used to be mormon themselves, so she may notice more details that others cannot aee

[@KaraFrances-d4r]

Uhhhhh spoiler alert Vampire Chick is not really a "christian " / mormon Though thats apparently a grand halloween costume Shes a witch promoting witches / vampires cause thats their main ritual yes drinking blood! Fun huh ? Spiritual war is rough ; ) Consider it a sexy appealing satanism commercial Like toothpaste ! But hotter !!!😂✌️ Lolol i joke cause its so sad..... Alls fair in love and war And psychologically degrading teenagers to somehow find vampirism / power so appealimg so compelling ???? ( instead of gross ???; ) Welp .... Thats how u know yr winning .....

[@NatalieEng113]

would also love to see this!

[@theinnbetweenpodcast]

It’s very much there. Edward is essentially a hot priesthood holder offering Bella eternal life but only on the condition of chastity and in the confines of holy matrimony

[@Rionlew]

There’s an excellent video essay that touches on this topic by Contrapoints (titled Twilight). Would love to hear Alyssa’s take on this too

[@Cinderbloom]

I will say with Pride and Prejudice, while being romance focused, is also a very sharp societal critique - something which is almost entirely lost with modern audiences, since society has changed so much. And it's sad that it's often not really conveyed.

[@Gijakhali]

I love the world of regency era rules and just daily subscriptions. Next year, my goal is to read more regency era authors.

[@ritzee13]

I heard someone say that Austen would be considered a philosopher if she was a man and wrote her notes on human behaviour in a paper rather than story format. And that makes so much sense to me, because she is a master of character study.

[@caramazzola2399]

I don't think it's fair to say the societal critique is lost on modern audiences. There's a reason the book is still relevant today.

[@Aaron.Thomas]

People romanticise the era, which is wild because the books were deep criticism of the awful oppression of the social structures.

[@renata8979]

I was also amused by Wuthering Heights considered (not by the author of the video, by the community) "safe". It is not even really a "love story", it is confusing and intense even for adults.

[@TysonPJ]

Sanderson said "shit" in his new book. He has now entered his dark brooding phase.

[@ultravioletcatastrophe]

there's also "asshole" which is probably around the same level of edgy? still waiting for that f bomb

[@iloshwdgac9213]

No, Lift said shit. It was Vasher's fault for teaching her it, plus it confused Wit, so good was done.

[@NateFord]

Lift learning “shit” was one of my favorite moments in the series

[@jaketiger1116]

I'm only 30% of the way through the new book but I'm surprised how much hornier it is than anything else he's written? Not horny by other people's standards but compared to previous BrandoSando works, he mentions sex and sex adjacent things a lot more all of a sudden!

[@Eloweh]

Is that only cuss word in the book? If so I’m way more okay with it. I was surprised to hear that he included cuss words now but knowing it was for a joke with Lift, Vasher, and Zeit makes me okay with it. Otherwise it seems very strange for Brandon to go that route.

[@DinosaurMermaidArt]

I have to wonder if men in Mormonism are good at writing elaborate world-building has anything to do with the fact that they are told that after they die they're given their own planet to shape in the way they want, and some of them start thinking about the kind of world they would create at a young age, and then tart writing those ideas down.

[@TheBallingers3]

As one of those men, I would guess about zero. We are not actually told we will get our own planet, but are more often (accurately) told we do not know how the next life looks beyond what’s in scripture, and rumors of more are apocryphal at best. The first time I heard that was from sources entirely outside, and the closest we get to that from inside sources are references to progressing eternally, with the emphasis on the specifics being unknown.

[@ldsjen0227]

Some aren’t waiting until we fully die, for some “we” have had to “save ourselves” and so this is our resurrection…. numbers 29: 12… and when our name is in “ALL” the books already…. “our” son “Joseph” has indeed returned … on 7-15-10 linking names like Burnette, Deal, Barron, King, Smith, and 57,000 more with DNA 🧬 in all the “books” and now things are manifesting in our reality as those who’ve the “Holy Ghost” pay their penances…

[@crosana01]

​@@TheBallingers3So the LDS belief in "exaltation" doesn't exist?

[@TheBallingers3]

@ it does exist. No leaders have revealed exactly what that looks like in the next life.

[@crosana01]

@TheBallingers3 Maybe not "exactly" but the belief that people are essentially "gods in embryo" and that the highest form of salvation in the celestial kingdom will allow for those who achieve it to become as gods and preside over their own kingdoms. There have been many official LDS documents that have found their way outside of the church over the decades that establish this. Just because the church officially states otherwise doesn't change this.

[@magnus_lundgren]

Sanderson's lectures from one of his classes are available on youtube, and they are good. From what I can recall, he never brought in his religion into the lectures, which I appreciate as an atheist. But what I appreciate even more is that he doesn't "preach" any true-way-ism in writing, but explains how he goes about it, and explains several other ways to approach it, and that each writer has to find what works for them. aI did try to read one of his fantasy novels, but couldn't get into it; it wasn't my cup of tea (but I'm a bit burnt out on the medieval high fantasy stuff).

[@grandoldpodcast]

I think Jim Butcher has a quote about never preaching harder than you can tell a story

[@miclowgunman1987]

Its so funny to see the comments on here on "Sanderson must be a closet anti or an idiot because the things he writes contradict his faith so much." Like, it's fantasy, anything that you perceive as truth can be completely flipped on it head with a little imagination. You don't have to have a shred of belief in what you write for it to be written as truth in your story. I've never read his books, but it really shows me that he is a good writer if people can be so conflicted when faced with his religion.

[@wellwell6096]

I didn't even know that he was mormon after watching a lot of lectures, discovered today 😅

[@jordinagel1184]

@@miclowgunman1987as someone who *has* actually read his books, I find it hard to believe that he’s as hardcore a believer as it seems on the outside. No one who puts real stock in the entirety of Mormon beliefs would write what he has, it would offend their very existence. Now, we can only speculate so long as Sanderson doesn’t give a specific answer (and tbf I think him avoiding the topic of religion in interviews and the like is mostly a good thing), but I feel like he’s doing this to not alienate people who are close to him and/or to not become persona non grata among Mormons and thus allow younger Mormons to still enjoy his work (which is good, there are many lessons in his books they wouldn’t otherwise be exposed to in their community)

[@FishareFriendsNotFood972]

"I wish my world had gotten to be bigger than that, than just a romance story." That statement is very profound and heartbreaking, thank you for putting it so succinctly.

[@SnoopyReads]

Oh brother, no one was limiting her as a kid except herself

[@nevergiveup9937]

Why do I seem to see you comment in every single video I watch? The coincidence is shocking

[@LowTide941]

@@SnoopyReadswhat’s up cult member. Nothing better to do today?

[@turbo_jake]

@@SnoopyReadsher and the famously rule-rich religion that she said in this video was almost always the most strict religion out of anyone she knew lol

[@rachelstanford9784]

They literally made her sing hymns about how superior men are and was taught she'll lose all value as a human being if she loses her virginity.

[@metalmechanic6664]

I'm a huge Sanderson fan and one thing I noticed reading Mistborn is that he clearly wrestles with his faith. One character by the name of Sazed spends books 2 and 3 making the same arguments about atheism that broke me away from my Southern Baptist upbringing. It is quite strange to see that he is still super Mormon.

[@flippanties]

After reading Elantris and reading the author's note from the later editions of it I am honestly repeatedly shocked he's still practicing. Seeing him say he based part of Hrathen's character on his missionary work when Hrathen is very clearly written as an anti-mission allegory is crazy.

[@coleenjustesenmadsen9885]

I’ve thought the same about the Sazed connection for years and have been curious if anyone else has thought the same. But I also know he’s pretty far removed from his inspiration so I couldn’t verifiably say if he was and I feel like that’s to personal of a question to ask him in a Q&A setting lol.

[@violetskies14]

​@@flippanties I love Elantris and it's so obviously anti mission and anti conversion it's so strange to me that he's still fully practicing and ensconced in the church.l

[@js8098]

in Stormlight 1 there is a snippet where Jasnah, a character commonly understood as one of the most smart ones in his setting, lays out one of the most reliably sound lines of reasoning for atheism, or at least rejecting most theisms that are not evident, and especially rejecting organized religions that they spawn. She is portrayed as a winner of that debate, and the general gist of the scene is to highlight how reasonable and right she is in being a critic of the church and faith in general. The only difference, ofc, is that in this world magic and gods are real and demonstrably so, so she ultimately arrives to the correct conclusion in a scientific and orderly manner. Real world is not like that and it is insane to me how the author can still somehow fail to apply the logic and come to the right conclusions about his real life theology.

[@styrofoamsoldier]

@@js8098yo, mind pointing me to a chapter? I know what you reference but can’t find it 😢

[@bretsheeley4034]

"Okay, Mormon writers. What have you got for us." Tracy: "At the start of the Dragonlance series, I created the Disks of Mishakal, a clear parallel to Smith's golden plates." "Excellent. Next?" Steph: "I have a series with a girl who is sexually repressed. And when her much older boyfriend leaves her for a time, she thinks her life is over and becomes suicidal since a relationship is all that is important to a woman." "Good. Good. And you, Orson?" Orson: "My Homecoming series is pretty much a retelling of parts of the Book of Mormon. I even had a gay guy be forced to live and breed with a woman, partially curing him by the end." "Wonderful. I'm sure that will go over well with everyone. Brandon. How is your series?" Brandon: "Okay. So it starts off in the past with a bunch of people murdering God and stealing his shit."

[@Skootfairy]

Well said.

[@SewingBoxDesigns]

Oh dear....😂. The only Mormon boss I ever condescended to work for was an arrogant bunt who's names was Brandon. I quit when he told me he owned me because he paid my bills and I had to come in on my day off. It was a PIZZA place, not a where house! Jesus Christ what a jerk!

[@johnharvey5412]

I listened to the whole Homecoming series, and kept expecting the classic twist where they turn out to be the ancient ancestors of our modern species, until about three books into it something finally rules that out.

[@Jebbis]

Oh damn, I didn’t know Tracey Hickman was a mormon.

[@JonSteitzer]

Way of Kings and Dalinar's visions seems like a clear analogue for Joseph Smith

[@usdutchkitty]

Whoa, Jane Austen would take offense of being accused of being a romance writer. 😆 She was a person who studied and wrote about human nature and society. If anything, Jane Austen is a satirical writer. Pride and prejudice may have romance elements but the real theme of the book is about manners and personal growth. Her books are funny because she was showing Regency England a mirror to look at themselves in, saying “Look how stupid you look! The rules do not make sense of what is put upon us!” The rules of P&P stated of courting and marriage. Mr. Collins “courted” Elizabeth correctly, broadly, and got rejected because of his pompous behavior. Mr. Darcy was doing things more “incorrectly” to Elizabeth. Why? Darcy got to know her more as a person, yes sizing her up to see how she would be within his circles (Colonel Fitzwilliam and Lady Catherine de Bourgh), but he saw different sides of her when Elizabeth was so focused on her hatred of him that it was a main reason she was blindsided when he proposed! So go reread P&P with the satirical lense and it all makes sense! 😆

[@meganrogers3571]

I would also imagine that Jane Austen, as a female writer, was allowed to publish social critiques because they were within a romantic structure and thus "safe" and "feminine" enough. She's also writing comedies and many comedies end in marriage (as opposed to a tragedy, which ends in death-see Shakespeare's "Twelfth Night" vs. "Romeo and Juliet"). I also find it really interesting that while Austen's heroines get married, she personally did not.

[@usdutchkitty]

@ She was too poor in the dowry department but she had more than one offer of marriage in her life. She chose to not marry for, many theorize, because of her writing. She may have thought she would have to give it up once married. She referred to her novels as her “children” also. I think after that incident with Tom Lefoy, it screwed her up bad.

[@carissacaressacarossa]

Not arguing with your point in the least, but just saying: they ARE classed as romances. Even if they have more specific subgenres, the genre that their main plot fits within IS romance. Particularly since she usually writes pretty classically romantic happy endings.

[@funkyfranx]

I don’t think she would be offended as being classed as a romance writer at all. You say the word like it’s an insult. There’s nothing wrong with writing romances and they too can be works of art, as Austen has proven. You just look down on romances is all.

[@roguepixel4753]

She wouldn't actually. Go read Persuasion with an unbiased lense and you will see she viewed women writing romance as good thing. Just because Pride & Prejudice is a good romance novel and thereby transcends your understanding of the genre you demean, does not make it less of romance.

[@LoganKearsley]

Eh. This is a pretty common take, that the religion itself promotes fantasy and sci-fi, but I'm pretty sure it has *a lot more* to do with Marion Smith and Dave Farland building a huge self-sustaining community of spec-fic authors in Utah. Except for Scott Card, everyone on your list came out of that community--and Card helped build it. LTUE, Provo's conference for teaching people how to get into creative industries, is now in its 43rd year, and several of those authors have publically stated that it helped launch their careers, and BYU's Leading Edge magazine has been pipelining students into spec-fic editing and publishing for just as long. And both of those came out of Marion Smith's student group. You kind of address this idea at the end, but it really ought to be the beginning.

[@bluester7177]

This makes more sense to me, Because I don't think her points are unique to mormon ism, the abrahamic religions have a nation building myth that spawn into hundreds of books and ideas which are being expanded to this day, so many things have been added to it, so many influences from other cultures and interpretations from different people.

[@angelawossname]

There's also the fact that publishers will favour authors that are cishet, white and male. Mormon authors tend to fit into at least 2 of these, sometimes all 3. Books by lgbtq authors or PoC authors need to be at least 3 times as good in order to be considered. This is why the books by Mormon authors tend to be generic and maybe slightly above average, while books by lgbtq authors and PoC authors tend to win awards.

[@johnjones_1501]

I want to add my two cents. As a man in Mormonism, I understand I did not get short shifted the way my sisters did. However, as a man with a disability, one of the frustrating things to me was since that women could only ever define their accomplishments through marriage, it very much meant that those of us on the other side, who were not perfect, through no fault of our own, were very much less desirable. A woman in the Mormon church is very much supposed to be a stay at home Mom who raises the five kids while the man somehow earns enough money to take care of everyone. It was never in the cards that I could be such a man, and the only way a marriage with kids could ever work out for me is if I were married to a woman who had her own career and had her own accomplishments that she could stand on her own with, because as someone who is handicapped I can barely lift my own self up, so it was kind of just known by the vast majority of the girls in the church to just leave guys like me alone to eternal bachelorhood. Ironically, I left the church, I started having healthy relationships, I am a father, but the way I handle being a family man is not the same way the 70 year old white guys in Salt Lake City think that one should be a family man, because as much as Mormonism succeeds at creating great fantasy authors, none of them have the imagination to imagine a world where people are not basically typical Mormons the way they imagine typical Mormons to be

[@AdelaiLynch]

Dude, I think you sharing this point of view is so awesome. As a folklorist whose speciality isn't Mormons, I've noticed a distinct lack of voices from marginalized men, even though they have to exist. Thank you for sharing!

[@johnjones_1501]

@@AdelaiLynch I try to be careful sharing, because most men in my situation just lash out in a toxic fashion. I am not entitled to girls, I understand that, but I do understand that placing people into boxes, based on unrealistic views of what their roles creates unfairness everywhere. The truth is, there is only a very small number of men who benefit from, or actually really would want a tradwife, if they stopped to actually think about it, but the idea that this is what we should want, for our own personal and willing domestic slave, isn't really healthy for anyone and it hurts everyone. Of course the girls get hurt more, because they are expected to be the domestic wife slave, but sometimes men need to have it pointed out to them why they probably don't actually want this dynamic if they think about it.

[@czechmeoutbabe1997]

​@@johnjones_1501 You have such an unbelievably unique perspective that you also, in my opinion, contextualise incredibly thoughtfully. It's really refreshing to hear your stuff in a world where it seems like the "Gender War" is only getting more hostile, day by day. Speak your truth, brother.

[@Espejoestelar]

@@johnjones_1501you word it very well. It’s just sad as you mention that men would need to find a disadvantage to maybe drop the misoginy instead of the empathy of women being affected and hurt . I’m glad you got to enjoy your adult life with more joy and that ur kids will not grow into a v close minded church

[@hentaimonster]

Your experience is not just Mormonism, it is the standard for men as a species and not just humans. Life is about survival, and most healthy women or even animals do not have an interest in an unhealthy partner. It is the sad truth, regardless of how intelligent of a species we are. It is great that you were able to find happiness but the reality is you are a minority and outside of a 1st world country you would still be in that situation; or at least have an even smaller chance at escaping that situation.

[@cutiekika]

My absolute dream is a video about Mormonism in Twilight. I clicked so fast when I saw the cover

[@alyssadgrenfell]

I had so much written about this that I didn't get to bc the video was already so long! It's on my list to do a follow up because THERE IS A LOT to cover haha

[@philippegirouard8478]

Please a mormon deep dive of twilight!

[@lareineii]

Yes pweeeez

[@ourmobilehomemakeover662]

Contrapoints did something like that.

[@pebblebrookbooks4852]

​@@ourmobilehomemakeover662 oh love Contrapoints!!

[@r.poulson2544]

This video really hit home for me. I was raised Mormon in Utah and always loved writing. I was writing almost every day growing up but I loved reading and writing more traditional fantasy. Brandon Sanderson was one of my favorite authors and I was so excited when I got to meet him in middle school. I was encouraged by my English and writing teachers in school to keep writing and they often liked my stories as they were, but my family and church members often discouraged me continuing to write the way I was. I always wrote large complex worlds with many different people, creatures, and cultures but usually there was minimal or no romance involved. I was groomed for a number of years and I think as a result romance books and stories made me extremely uncomfortable and angry for a long time until I was able to deal with those feelings through therapy. I think that played a huge part in why I refused to read anything like Twilight and would explicitly read more traditionally male fantasy. But I was always asked by family and friends why I didn't write more romance or 'girly' things. (Most of my female protagonists were warriors, witches, and other things not inherently seen as womanly). I've since left the church for many reasons but one of them was the way men and women are treated so drastically different. The young men in my ward were always camping, hiking, building, even participating in archery. While us in the young women would do Bible study, geneology work, cooking, baking, etc. I think the most exciting thing I got to do in young women's was when we threw a big fit about how different the men's and women activities were so they let us start learning dancing... It's frustrating but I'm thankful to be out now and finding my own voice and as hard as the church was it shaped the person I've become. I'm now happily married to another ex-mo and am a published author of a few stories with all those same things in my stories that were once deemed unbecoming of a 'worthy' young woman.

[@emmie1176]

Thank you for sharing! Happy to hear you're doing well

[@Trillora]

Congratulations on ALL of it, from getting out, starting your healing, AND getting published! Where can we find your published stories? (I'm a book nerd and am always looking for new authors to read/support, especially women!)

[@abrahamflores2566]

I grew up catholic so I am familiar with the societal expectations(not so much gender roles in my experience) and now I am not a practicing catholic. However I can thank my upbringing for giving me a stable home and loving family with set expectations that were positive at the end of the day.

[@Kinuhbud]

and you've always just written giant walls of text? or can you indent and write paragraphs? y'all ever read Ursula Le Guin?

[@kassylee813]

I have a super similar breaking point story with the church. I was 16 the boys group was on a white water rafting trip, which I’ve done and loved. Meanwhile we were learning how to crochet. I was pissed and refused to do it and their response was on their next trip is paint ball. Do you ladies really want to join them there and I was like yes but the others were not about it and worried about getting hurt. Anyways I doubt they’d actually let us anyways but I basically checked out at 16 because of the same thing

[@ReiraNell-x8s]

As a Sanderson fan I had no idea he was a Mormon for a while. Especially in Mistborn, the way he explores religion made me think he was either an agnostic or an atheist. When I learned he was a Mormon I was so shocked. I started watching your videos a few months ago and I always wondered what you thought about him. Thanks for the elaborate video!

[@starlalalala4460]

I also didn't get a very religious vibe from his books he seems to explore religions and worship and what actually makes a god. Plus he has very strong capable well writen developed female characters. I always forget he is Mormon. It kinda makes me sad to know he's so devoted and dedicated to a religion that is known to be very harmful hes been my favorite author for years.

[@JRMilward]

"It doesn't hurt me, therefore I can live with it" is the ultimate mantra of privilege. It's incredibly telling when a person is described - and describes themselves - as kind or concerned towards other people in a certain way, but absolutely refuse to threaten their comfort by actively challenging the systemic oppression or abuse that they are a part of. Knowing that people can be "decent" yet allow evil to flourish is icky at best, chilling at worst.

[@justoguillermomontoya3821]

It’s not privilege it’s just common sense minding your own F’in business

[@nearlyNonexistent]

@@justoguillermomontoya3821 Minding your own business would be not helping fund an organization hurting people you claim you care about, wouldn't it?

[@therobin980]

​@@justoguillermomontoya3821 just admit that youre feeling called out Stop being so defensive

[@itsyaboiroman3345]

My favourite Very Mormon thing in Twilight is that Edward and Bella can’t have sex before marriage or Bella will LITERALLY DIE, and after they do have sex the one time Bella instantly gets pregnant. Then, once she is pregnant with little Rumplestiltskin, everyone is telling her that they have to abort the baby because carrying it to term will kill her, but she staunchly refuses the abortion because the foetus is literally alive and conscious in the womb and talking to her and telling her how much it loves her and what it wants to do with its life once it’s born. And then, even though the pregnancy wreaks absolute havoc on her body and the birth does actually kill Bella, once she comes back as a vampire, the narrative very much makes it seem like she was 100% objectively correct in her decision to go through with this fatal pregnancy and that every other character was a horrible person for ever suggesting that she abort the foetus for the sake of her own health.

[@flootzavut30daychallenge]

Honestly none of this is new to me, but condensed down into one paragraph it really makes you 😮 doesn't it?

[@nicoleanstedt]

Those same beliefs are found in Catholicism. Bella is wearing a St. Jude bracelet in the movie.

[@countschad]

In America, we don't consider an unborn baby a "foe (foetus)." Lol

[@Kenough_in_Wonderland]

@@countschadYes, the whole world does, it's the medical term for it. Or do you mean foetus is the British spelling? 🙈 Sorry, your comment confuses me hahah

[@countschad]

@@Kenough_in_Wonderland No, it doesn't confuse you. You know that the point was to confirm that a fetus(unborn baby) is alive and has human rights. And that I did it by making fun of the archaic spelling used. So, please, troll no more...

[@random_reader11]

Sanderson’s Mormonism is interesting to me. he seems VERY mormon, but his latest book has two gay main characters and side characters who are trans and nonbinary (not to mention another main character who is a staunch atheist). his Mormonism is obvious in the lack of sex scenes but not really anywhere else

Why would a Mormon book not include those things? They exist and are part of the story in modern life, if you asked him he'd probably still say its a sin. Or more likely he'd just totally dodge the question / lie about his belief.

[@gelflingfay]

The lack of sex scenes is the more Mormon part. We do have gay people at church, you know.

[@SheDevil1459]

His newest book also has s*x apparently.

[@ernex404b]

He does not write books for a living. He sells books for a living. He is just writing to the market. You should watch his lectures on "Writing" they are tedious, and somewhat shallow, but very telling on who he is as a person.

[@martletkay]

Just gonna say, one doesn't have to be Mormon to appreciate reading books without grinding sex scenes every other chapter. And one might wish to write fantasy without smut for all kinds of reasons other than oppressive religious belief. One could also be asexual and generally disinterested, or just classy enough to leave it out, even if only to make it more accessible to broader audience.

[@deahdirectah]

Finding out what Mormonism teaches about Native Americans both explained Meyer's racism against the Quilete tribe and made it so much darker

[@user-dt3rc9yt1t]

Please explain more

[@LanBrazil]

@@user-dt3rc9yt1t The racism in question is Meyer's being very supportive of the tribe's casting in her Twilight movies, bring a ton of economy into the tribe's area, pulling many out of poverty and to this day many of the Quilete speak very highly of her. - A person with no dog in this race, not even a Meyer fan. Just came for the Sanderson stuff.

[@hyrumhanson3390]

​@@user-dt3rc9yt1tsome of the Native American's ancestors were people who fled ancient Jerusalem when it was destroyed by Babylon in 600b.c, is what we think of them. I don't know why the original posting says that's racist.

[@recursiveslacker7730]

@@user-dt3rc9yt1tthe Mormons killed a LOT of natives on the way to Utah, and I believe kidnapped some native kids too.

[@Willie5000]

@@user-dt3rc9yt1t Mormons believe that the Native Americans of today are descended from a lost tribe of Israel that sinned against God and as a punishment had their skin turned brown.

[@tfrtrouble]

How is Wuthering Heights a romance? It's basically a chilling book about a bunch of awful abusive people being awful and abusive to eachother. Not in the way of "Twilight is disturbing because the relationships are toxic"; it was literally written as gothic horror. You can make your point without dismissing any book written by a woman that features a romantic pairing in any context as "just a romance". A lot of those literature classics you mentioned are by no means exclusively romance-focused like something like Twilight is. For a lot of them, the romance part only takes up a tiny portion of the book and they also comment critically on society at the time (e.g. gender inequality, the class system) or provide psychological insight, just like say the novels of Hardy, which nobody dismisses as "just romance", although they often also feature romantic pairings. You seem to belittle and dismiss them as "just romance", despite their having such similar themes to say some Hardy books, just because they were written by women. This is part of the problem.

[@HosCreates]

Wuthering heights is more like romance gone wrong and everyone suffering for it !

[@vasilikikakara3092]

I'd argue it's more about the generational trauma of abuse

[@nitzeart]

Yeah, this creator has a lot of work to do still with feminism because she has some BAD takes and internalized misogyny that often slip out in her videos 🫣

[@thenopedetective]

Yes, even Pride and Prejudice is scathing and witty political commentary about women's lived experience that was not much at all explored at the time. It's an amazing book in its historic context. To hold it up as only a romance in comparison to twilight is a huge misunderstanding of the novel and missing some of the key themes. Romance does not make something inherently diminutive or lack world building. While I identitified with some of what Alyssa was saying, I do think she's showing a reductive perspective of classic novels that is quite counter their origins.

[@EveryDayALittleDeath]

Little Women, too, is about so much more than romance.

[@TNathanB]

I would argue that Sanderson and Meyer's use of teens dating adults is not particularly family friendly.

[@NateFord]

Thankfully there’s none of that in Stormlight Archive. Though brutal violence and harsh slavery are common themes throughout, so there are other reasons that it isn’t family friendly.

[@annalisa27]

While I take your point, I’d consider grouping Meyer with Sanderson to be a bit of a false equivalence. Meyer has a 17-year-old dating someone over 100 years old. Sanderson has couples like Vin (16) and Elend (21) in Mistborn or Shallan (17) and Adolin (24) in Stormlight Archive. Granted, I still don’t love these underage romances, and I wish the characters’ ages had been shifted a few years so they were all adults.

[@laurenconrad1799]

That’s interesting how Shannon Hale says that girls are encouraged to read boy books but boys aren’t encouraged to read girl books. I feel like that becomes a problem because teachers refuse to teach romance books in classrooms for fear of forcing boys to read Pride and Prejudice. It also makes it sound like Great Gatsby and Hemingway are inherently better than Jane Austen just because they’re written by men. Plus, Farewell to Arms and Great Gatsby have love stories in them. But we don’t think of them as romances.

[@XxstardropzdreammxX]

One of my friends told me Stephenie Meyer said something similar about boys not being able to connect to female characters/female related stories but girls are able to connect to male characters & stories. I agree with your thoughts on not teaching romances & how we don't consider Gatsby & Farewell to Arms as romance despite having romance in the story as well.

[@laurenconrad1799]

@@XxstardropzdreammxXThat might also be because boys aren’t socialized to have to grapple with other people’s emotions. Girls are socialized to be nurturers, which is why we think of nursing and teaching small children as a female profession.

[@cindys9491]

A positive exception might be the Hunger Games series. I remember some middle school boys liking the books, which had a female lead.

[@CarrotConsumer]

Romeo and Juliet is read in every high-school isn't it? Sure it's a tragedy but it counts I'd say.

[@justkiddin84]

Gatsby is really a book about how the focus on money and big houses and fancy cars, etc, destroys all that is good in the world, including relationships, the ‘romance’ is all false and ugly. It’s really autobiographical, sadly for FScot and Zelda.

[@kirstenerikapaulson2574]

Someone said that finding out Stephanie Meyer was a Mormon made it make a lot more sense why Edward saw Bella in a khaki skirt and found her irresistible 💀 I would love a Mormon analysis of those books because I feel like the Mormonism of it all really really casts a different light on the fact that Bella gets married, has a baby immediately, and dies as a result. That's bad enough but then there's the fact that the thing that saves her is a literal poison that renders her undead and comparatively monstrous....yeah IDK, the fact that marriage and motherhood were the catalysts for an arguably tragic transformation feels very different in light of the Mormon influence.

[@justkiddin84]

Sure does! Yikes. I disliked all the characters in the first book-and now I see that this is part of why I didn’t like them.

[@Minamibam]

She becomes immortal after having the baby, through the venom of her husband. She always wanted to be equal to him and now she is. Deciding to have the baby was the catalyst for achieving her greatest wish for herself, for having the life she wanted as an equal to her husband. Yup, doesn’t feel great. Edit: the only time she ‚defies‘ her husbands will, as far as I recall, is when she decides to have the baby, even if it would kill her……and for sex of course, because he doesn’t want to do it 😂

[@turbo_jake]

Brandon Sanderson is kind of the opposite of Stephenie Meyer- he publicly embraces his Mormonism and talks about how it has affected his writing yet his books don’t actually feel like it. Whereas Meyer distances her books from her Mormonism yet the books sometimes FEEL like a conservative Mormon book, the Sanderson books I’ve read (mistborn trilogy) don’t feel like that at all. If I didn’t know he was Mormon- especially when I read the well of ascension- I would’ve thought he was staunchly anti religion with how often it criticizes religion. The female main character also has strong agency and the fact that her and her boyfriend mutually give each other the trust to act independently of each other literally saves the world (by allowing them to kill a god) so his books definitely don’t feel like they’re saying “go be Mormon”

[@currentlyprocastinating5334]

Personally I’ve always found the most reoccuring theme in the cosmere to be about the difference between personal beliefs, which are important and valuable both for his atheist and his deeply religious characters, and the flaws and harm that organized religion and in the case for most of his books gods themselves are capable of. Which makes a lot of sense with the way that he presents himself as a deeply religious person who is also very critical and good at taking critique and doing better. Its probably the topic that he writes the most nuanced about imo, and the one that I find he seems to have the most to say

[@SomeThingOrMaybeAnother]

"I would’ve thought he was staunchly anti religion with how often it criticizes religion." I don't think that's entirely the case. SPOILERS In Mistborn that whole repository of religions is used to rebuild the world from the broken state. You know, despite the flaws the religions serve a function.

[@Draconicdisciple]

At the same time I respect how Meyer acknowledges that no matter how much you try not to include your faith in something, it influences your subconscious beliefs and opinions and will show in your writing.

[@skylerking7435]

@@currentlyprocastinating5334 I think this very much is the Mormon experience, if anything of 'Mormonism' appears in Sanderson. Critical and good at taking critique, nuanced, exploring personal belief with religious institutions. Great observations!

[@M_M_ODonnell]

@@currentlyprocastinating5334 His atheist characters are still atheist specifically in contradiction to a specific version of theism. To be fair, this is true of entirely too many Western atheists as well -- but it still reduces all questions of faith to a matter of response to a single artificially-narrowed binary framing that squeezes all religions into a single theological mold.

[@AmaranthEternal]

Stephanie Meyers being Mormon makes sooo much more sense. My biggest criticism of her writing has always been that she is absolutely amazing at world building but that she ultimately forces her novels into a romantic category that takes away from the world she builds. I would love to see a book from her where there is no romance because I feel like that is where her strengths as a writer have always been. It isn't necessarily that I don't like the romance genre, but more so it feels like Stephanie could never really portray a real/healthy relationship. Hearing that women in the mormon writing circles tend to stick to romance while the men tend to stick to world building reminded me of my opinions on Stephanie Meyer's writing way back when.

[@genericredcircle8027]

This is an absolutely beautiful video. Your consideration of wanting your life to be more than “just a romance story” was absolutely heartbreaking, but so important to hear. I can’t even imagine how devastating it feels to be taught that from such a young age. My best friend in school was a devoted Mormon even here in Australia and it used to confuse me why I would need to sneak her copies of certain books. She always wanted to be an author but now has gone full-time at the church. Thank you for making these videos. I’m so desperately hoping that this message can get through to my friend and other women in the same situation. Your voice is so impactful.

[@sourcandyspite]

"but can't you see the fruit that was handed to me?" WOW i think you've really nailed something here that i have struggled to explain to my catholic mother for a long time

[@repentantsinner7472]

Tracy and Laura Hickman are LDS and they wrote, what most people consider to be, the greatest Dungeons and Dragons modules of all time in addition to a large body of fantasy novels. It is no exaggeration to say that Dungeons and Dragons today owes a huge debt to their contribution and I have read quotes where they credit their creative work to their faith. In the 80’s the Hickman works, especially Ravenloft, took D&D from a basic tactical game to a much more robust role playing game. As an Arab American kid in the 1980’s the Hickman Desert of Desolation series meant a lot to me because it gave me and my friends a cool Middle Eastern setting that made my culture approachable instead of strange & weird.

[@jasonkenney2231]

Don't forget rose of the prophet, which I think has Mat-hew - one of Khardan's wives whom survives to the end.

[@whiteraven562]

Ooo, I didn't know that the Hickmans worked on Ravenloft. I could tell Dragonlance was Mormon-influenced though, what with the characters finding divine writings etched on metal disks, and the weird way it handles Native American-coded characters

[@moustik31]

WHAT?! I used to be a huge fan of the Death Gate book series as a teen. 🤯

[@moustik31]

WHAT?! I used to be a huge fan of the Death Gate book series as a teen. 🤯

[@naylorbroughton1159]

I remember playing the AD & D modules of the "desert of desolation" series back in the early 1980s. Pharoah, Oasis of the White Palm......it was a fantastic series of gameplay, it also hit at the time of movies still in recent memory of "Raiders of the Lost Ark" and "Romancing the Stone" and TV shows like "tales of the Gold Monkey" that D&D series was by far some of the greatest ever made and I have not played that game in almost 40 years!!

[@huggymchug]

Stephanie Meyers books have always been so interesting to me because she has some of the craziest, most fleshed out world building that gets mentioned in passing because they're not directly related to the central romance. I feel like I can kinda understand why now!

[@luv2read247]

I honestly wish she would drop the romance aspects and just give me books about what happened to the auxiliary vampires or the aliens in The Host. Her side stories were more compelling for me than the main plot and it's a total bummer she just chose to rewrite Twilight a few different ways instead of picking a side character and expanding on their story.

[@justkiddin84]

Right? She focuses on these passive-aggressive boring people that just float along doing what they are expected to do, the males fussing over a boring passive girl. I made it about halfway through the first one, completely confused why it was so popular. So many truly great authors out there, and that mess is pushed at us.

[@ph_read_be]

Have you read 'the short second life of bree tanner'? It's a novella set during Eclipse that might be what you're looking for!

[@G4M3GL4R3]

​@@ph_read_be 2nding the reccomendation of reading Bree Tanner, its the only twilight book that i was able to get through. It's basically pure world building and drama because it originally wasnt going to be published, it was a side-backstory draft that then got fleshed out as a charity work. I would love to see Stephanie write another work that isn't romance focused in the Fantasy or Scifi genre. Bree Tanner had me bawling my eyes out, and I've read it multiple times, it still has me tearing up just thinking about it.

[@lisal5718]

@@justkiddin84I think the book worked with a younger audience because Bella is so extremely normal and boring. Many people at this age are insecure and see themselves as the odd one out. They can see themselves in Bella who meets those slightly off people in school and gets introduced to this hidden and magnificent world of the supernatural. It works because it is relatable. As long as you don’t see the LDS connection you can explain all the weird stuff away somehow by saying that Edward is old fashioned or that Bella is just an expressionable young girl who has no experience with boys.

[@twistysunshine]

Honestly the only issue I have here with Sanderson's stance is I know to maintain all that standing in the church he's donating 10% of his income to it. That 10% of his income has been used for Many Many things- back during the days of California's Prop 8 that banned gay marriage in the state constitutionally, the church actively put its money into campaigning for Prop 8 to ban gay marriage. So if he was giving them money then, he was paying them to work towards legal discrimination of queer people. You can disagree with their stances up and down and all day but if you pay them to enact that stance, especially with the reasonable income of someone like Sanderson, then like- that disagreement, that support of queer people, clearly doesn't make it far enough to actually do anything at all. Things won't necessarily change by him leaving sure- but maybe he could stop paying money into the system that actively hurts and attacks the people he supposedly cares about. He's just gonna keep paying his huge checks into the machine that hurts us and then when it hurts us he'll frown about it afterwards? So comforting Brandon /s

[@xDyxe]

This is very true. No one knows his internal feelings but the money trail speaks for itself, as well as the history of homophobia in education at BYU where he is affiliated...

[@sibergirl2645]

@@xDyxe I mean... spoilers for Wind and Truth below He has such a nuanced and health portrayal of a gay relationship between 2 main characters in his most recent release - that I can't see him being homophobic. He is actively an ally and has spoken about his regrets of being more passive in the past and hopes the remedy that by representing people less homogenously than before (ie. he doesn't write lgbt characters just to include them for the sake of it, but acknowledges that it just makes the most sense for those particular characters to be lgbt and given how large his cast is, it just makes sense that lgtb characters would exist in his world). The fact that I can see these healthy and varied portrayals from him that I don't see in 98% of other prolific fantasy authors speaks for itself I think.

[@shardperson3777]

@@sibergirl2645 can write all the great rep he wants and it's completely meaningless and worthless if he's donating money to an organization that's using that money to hurt queer people in very tangible ways

[@jaspervanheycop9722]

Why does this guy even have Kickstarters at all? He's a succesful author (I wouldn't say a good one... but that's beside the point). He should be able to absorb a project that goes nowhere every now and again, particularly because he creates so much. Yet another example of the corruption of kickstarter there, I'm glad I never supported that scam from day one.

[@ApoMelon]

@@sibergirl2645he’s had LGBTQ+ characters in his books with decent-to-good representation since 2011 or 2013 as well I believe

[@paulinaderegowska4757]

I just started watching your videos, but congratulations on accomplishing your dream of publishing a book! And yes, a Mormon analysis of Twilight would be interesting, as many people, I had a phase in my tweens/early teens.

[@WhimsigothVampire]

Very cool exploratory video, I really enjoy your content. One thing I did think was interesting was that you hold up Pride and Prejudice and Little Women as examples of “marriage/love as destiny” when in fact those books really take pains to critique that very viewpoint. At one point, your words about desiring more than marriage, your desire to explore the world and deeper things, were almost an exact quotation of something Jo March says in Little Women! I think the authors of these books had the exact same bone to pick with the themes you describe. :)

[@rachelcooper1995]

I got a bit sad when she talked about the women's books so dismissively. Women's writing (very very broadly) tends to be more about relationship building (whether romantic or otherwise) than world building - and that's probably a more useful insight for the reader than dragons and imaginary politics in imaginary worlds. But so much of women's writing is dismissed as 'romance' or 'light' or 'silly' because our societies don't value relationship building as much as they should. Tiny bit of internalised misogyny from Alyssa maybe.

[@rachelcooper1995]

Also, our whole world would be in a better shape if boys were encouraged to read romance and books that focus on relationship building. Its not so much that girls need to do the 'boys' things (although they should) but that boys need to do the 'girls' things. But we continue to devalue 'girls' things and teach kids to aspire to 'boys' things

[@saschamayer4050]

But they still all ended up in marriages. So no career, no life outside of marriage for women.

[@thenopedetective]

Given the timeframe, that unfortunately makes sense - to exist as an unmarried women you essentially had to come from a rich family or be widowed.

[@ariwhite2548]

Not quite done with this video, but having just finished reading Brando Sando’s most recent book, I can say that it REALLY felt like watching him deconstruct mormonism in real-time. I would love to know your thoughts about it, but that would require reading nearly 6k pages of fantasy, and I think that’s prooobably too big of an ask, lol

[@Greenicegod]

I'm halfway through the 62 hour audiobook... Stormlight has become my new fulltime job.

[@swissgoat4981]

I'm on Oathbringer, but his books have pretty much become my audio listen while driving or doing chores so I'll have to come back here after I get to it in a few months. I'd read them physically but I have bad wrists and those books are heavy 😂

[@ariwhite2548]

@@swissgoat4981 I read the physical books and yeah, I hear ya. All of the Stormlight books are blunt weapons, but Wind and Truth especially feels like a cudgel.

[@alexber8838]

"Deconstruct" is a heavy word. I woudl use "reference" instead

[@thenopedetective]

Just want to encourage anyone interested in the books to pirate or buy used! He's still an active tithing member of the church, supportive of LGBTQ+ in word or not.

[@emilymunson2949]

So much interesting discussion in this video! One thing about Stephanie Myer that didnt come up here that I have realized after watching your videos is the way that Mormonism really seems to have influenced how she writes indigenous people. I am not indigenous myself (I also was never Mormon, but was a twilight fan lol) so others could probably speak better to this, but the sort of like.. tone of superficial “respect” that is actually condescending and still very complicit in colonization when you scratch the surface.. it feels very linked to how Stephanie was probably raised to think about indigenous people.

[@GFAprodite]

Washington Has Alot Of Indigenous People, And Reservations. I Thought That's Were That Came From, Livin' In Washington.

[@celisewillis]

Great point! You might like Sarah Z's Twilight video, or Contrapoints' Twilight video (the seminal video essay on Twilight)

[@meidson12]

The encouragement to write daily in a non-mundane journal that will be seen by other people explains how these authors were able to release so many books in a short period of time. They were writing every day since they were children.

[@soapthesoap]

it's funny that little women is held up in the lds church because jo's whole story and especially her speech at the end are exactly what you were saying 3:46 "Women, they have minds, and they have souls, as well as just hearts. And they've got ambition, and they've got talent, as well as just beauty. I'm so sick of people saying that love is just all a woman is fit for. I'm so sick of it." And then like you noted, a romance is thrown in out of basically nowhere.

[@cheyennepetersen3417]

I'm re-reading Little Women as an adult because I got to go to Orchard House in Massachusetts on vacation and that family was radically progressive. I don't think they would have been flattered to be used like Alyssa described.

[@clairedeluneonthemoon]

as a recent gay byu grad the university is actively creating and implementing policies that subtly discriminate against queer people and it’s so defeating bc every push for progress gets counteracted

[@benjaminhoffman3848]

It is not progress to encourage deviancy.

[@vertrox156]

Sanderson fan here and I agree 100% that he will likely never leave the church and the church will likely never punish him for anything he writes because they want the money he ends up funneling to them. Not just from himself but from his company and all the employees who lets be honest are likely also Mormon and paying their 10% as well. Until he comes out to criticize the church publicly and directly they won't do a thing about it.

[@bashfulnath]

I also think it might be beneficial for the church to have someone so well known outwardly talking about a tamer version of mormonism in good light as it might bring more people in.

[@Lobster_Lars]

And that's exactly why I keep telling people to not buy his books, but no one listens. They all get on board with "don't give your money to JK rowling" but applying that same standard to sanderson is too much apparently

[@alexanderpeters5242]

@@Lobster_Larswhy shouldn’t someone buy his books though? Just because he’s religious? I’m not being snarky, I’m just curious about why you think that.

[@Dratio]

@@alexanderpeters5242 Because a chunk of that money is funneling into the Mormon church through tithes. I'm not really familiar with Mormonism but if you want to avoid funding it in any capacity I see the reasoning.

[@vertrox156]

@@Lobster_Lars I think it's a little bit different when it comes to Rowling, but I see your point. She is outwardly bigoted while Sanderson at least wants to believe that he's pushing for change from within the church but that still supports the system.

[@laurenconrad1799]

I don’t think Little Women is a romance. It’s like an anti-romance: an author being told to write a romance and refusing until she finally succumbed to the publisher’s begging by creating an awkward match for Jo.

[@agnesrenie3988]

I completely agree ! Have you read the sequels ?

[@laurenconrad1799]

@@agnesrenie3988 No

[@marocat4749]

Jane Austin is neither, while it shape a lot elements, its first social commentary of her time, and she seems to have based characters on people she really knew, she was lower nobility in that time, and basically fictionalized but based on real experiences with themes. So its not really romance, its commentary on that environment with some themes? And of course characters, and probably why they feel real. Its i think more character study and about communication, than romance.

[@naomi.j.m.]

Yeah, and Jo repeatedly talks about wishing she were a man because of what she would be able to do. Sure there is some romance but the different characters really highlight what different things a girl/woman can wish for, whether romance related or not. Edit: I do understand and agree with the point she is making, but funnily enough I think that little women is making a similar point

[@aprilshowers1271]

@@marocat4749 Yeah I completely agree. It's commentary on a time where marriage was a necessity for most women's financial stability and even though her heroines get happy endings, her books really critique that.

[@tesssandre3394]

“I yearn for big worlds…but the world was not big for me” (paraphrasing) is such a good way of putting that. I feel this very much encompasses many people’s experience of womanhood/growing up a woman. I can tell you’re a good writer when you say profound lines like that!

[@rrf35988]

I've read most of Brandon Sanderson's books, including all of the Cosmere books. It baffles me that a man who can write extremely realistic and nuanced characters with very different relationships with religion, including atheist and agnostic characters so accurately is religious himself. He explores the concept of singular and multiple deities and their relationship with mortals in a way that just cements my atheism even more! I can't see how someone goes through that process and stays religious. Same goes with his writing of POV characters that are so distant from mainstream beliefs, like his inner monologue of minority, queer or feminist characters is just spot on. I love what he creates and will keep reading his books but every time I buy a new one and remember that part of the profits is going to the Mormon church, it hurts a little.

[@braidans4767]

You can understand someone else’s beliefs and perspective and still maintain your own. Just because you understand why someone is an atheist doesn’t mean you’ll stop believing in your religion. Just as an atheist can understand why someone would be religious without wanting to become religious themselves.

[@angelawossname]

You can wait and buy them 2nd hand, he gets no money this way. You can also pirate them if you don't mind reading a digital version. Part of being a true ally is being willing to put yourself out a bit for the purpose of making lgbtq lives better.

[@flaming9]

As an atheist fantasy reader who's not American, this thing've always FASCINATED me!!! I dont know wy😂 since i found out that twilight Was written by a mormon author i swear everything clicked about that plot 😅

[@kathyp760]

You should inquire 📞 🧍‍♂️ 🧍‍♂️ ding dong 🚪

[@Wusydney9]

Esp Frank Herbert, those books start out so engrossing and then wow, the plotting and complexity take off even more.😅 Gave up around book 3 or 4 🤪

[@TheSnakeh]

@@Wusydney9 Frank Herbert wasn't Mormon, though? I don't get why he was brought in here. Especially since he was very critical of religion. Funny you say this since I think the series gets better as you go forward with book 4 being my favorite. I do get why it's not everyone's cup of tea, though.

[@justkiddin84]

@@TheSnakehYes, I am confused also-though I had a hard time, years ago reading the sequels-maybe I should try again now that I am older and my viewpoint has changed.

[@justkiddin84]

@@TheSnakehAh, I went out and read some things on him, and some folks describe him as a transhumanist, which might explain the confusion-I don’t necessarily agree with that assessment-he was Jungian for sure, and a Republican with Libertarian leanings, who was VERY critical of all forms of government, which would include organized religious groups. Like all thinking people, he would change and shift as he went along through life, learning more things.

[@IFSTherapyRealResults]

VIDEO IDEA: Hey that "Scale of Mormonism" seems kind of interesting. I think you could make a whole video of that, and what are the slacker Mormons doing or NOT DOING ... all the way to those who had the ceremonies and those highest levels and how that translates to the behaviors in everyday life (like not having caffeine, etc.

[@Lu-bk1qq]

It makes me think of Lisa Barlow from Real Housewives of Salt Lake City who literally owns a tequila company but still always insists she’s Mormon

[@TheBrunohusker]

What’s funny is every religion has this and they’re even sub types. My own church has this if you’re a very online Catholic, you’ve probably heard of trads, who are people like Kansas City Chiefs, kicker Harrison Butker, but there’s also a lot of people who are known as Susan’s, who are basically boomer and older liberal ladies who run the church council. I’m sure Mormonism has its equivalent as does every church.

[@TheBrunohusker]

What’s funny is every religion has this and they’re even sub types. My own church has this if you’re a very online Catholic, you’ve probably heard of trads, who are people like Kansas City Chiefs, kicker Harrison Butker, but there’s also a lot of people who are known as Susan’s, who are basically boomer and older liberal ladies who run the church council. I’m sure Mormonism has its equivalent as does every church.

[@TheBrunohusker]

@@Lu-bk1qq well if Mormon stories and most Mormon historians are to believed then that’s just part of church tradition as apparently they had a wine mission in southern Utah and did own breweries and distilleries in the Pioneer days so there you have it.

[@airplanetowardsthesky3265]

Brandon Sanderson is Mormon??? I went on a date with a guy once who ended up being Mormon. He really liked this author and was how I first learned about him. Every time I think back on that date the more I learn about Mormons the more everything about it made sense. Like why he went to Mexico for two years

[@marocat4749]

Ther are surprising many, if you know startrek, ronald moore, is a mormon, is stazinsky?!, ther are a lot, let alone the so many horny romances by utahs mormons housewives.

[@devilinred3319]

Ex mormon, but still mexican here: its funny that some of the appeal the white missionaries have are with women here who didnt know about the missonaries cant date while in the service, so this girls kinda have crush on these guys and agree in babtise, i found really funny that some of them discover those dudes cant date them and the cancel their bauticé and stop going to the chuch, or even they stop going when those dudes are gone. Cause the numbers are important for those guys, but sometime they just do it not for the "word of the lord touching peoples souls blah blah" juts to acomplish a number before go home and be disgrace for not babtise anyone.

[@justfandomtings]

I swear Mormons just pop up. With other religions, you can tell or they're open about it. With Mormons, you have to find out. 😅

[@nitzeart]

Wait what? He came on a mission to Mexico or why was he here for two years?? 😮

[@himesilva]

I've been so confused and curious about Sanderson's stance on Mormonism ever since I got into his books. It's clear the man has the capacity to think critically; he writes extremely insightful characters (some with vastly different views to his own) and has a lot of fascinating commentary about religion, the nature of honour, destiny and life as a whole. I couldn't reconcile this with the absolutely buck wild things Alyssa has discussed about Mormonism, but this video cleared up a lot. It makes sense, he acknowledges that there are problems but he's ultimately part of a very privileged demographic (white, male, respected in the community, wealthy, etc.) which dampens his incentive for action. Perhaps he _could_ make some change from the inside with all of that power he wields... If Dalinar could marry Navani... perhaps Brandon should advocate for gay Mormons to marry. If Navani could be a scientist, perhaps he should advocate for Mormon girls to pursue engineering. I'd like to see him wield that honour and bravery irl that he idealizes in his books!

[@thatcreggcell1534]

Yes, please do an in depth video of Twilight and Mormonism. Would love to see your take on it as someone who is not Mormon, but has Mormon family members and even my mom joined the LDS church for a while before she was like "wait a minute" lol she also said the Mark of Cain stuff and the skin color stuff threw her off completely and she left

[@1RoundInTheChamber]

When feeling glib, I proposed to a friend that we got so many prolific Mormon authors because they aren't allowed to do anything fun so many turn to writing. Glad to see someone's actually done some digging on the topic.

[@TheAtheistMexican78]

There is something ironic about Wuthering Heights being an example of “wholesome” romance.

[@stargazerbird]

Yes, the original abusive relationship. Also sort of incest.

[@EmmaKnightleyNo1]

Wuthering Heights is not a romance at all. It's about sadism. I abhor it with passion. I wish I had never read it. I put it off for decades, cause I disliked Kate Bush's song so much...😅 How right my reluctance was!!! I mean Jane Eyre has its problems too, but that sister was not as sick imo. And put some humour in.

[@TheAtheistMexican78]

@ ​​⁠ I agree with everything, except that I love it very much. But I read it as a horror story and not a romance.

[@UnderPurpleStarlight]

​@@EmmaKnightleyNo1 ​Boo. I absolutely love the Kate Bush song and the Bronte sisters. :/ I mean, you're free to your opinions but I'm booing them.

[@eprot6170]

​@@UnderPurpleStarlight Kate sings anoyingly high in that song, the sound itself is painfull for me

[@depilou]

I have a little story to share about Orson Scott Card & his family, and normally if I share it, the people I'm telling could give 2 effs because they were never Mormon... but back when I was a freshman in HS in *gasp* 1994, I was in OSC's ward. One of my closest friends was his daughter Emily (and eventually she ended up giving me her cockatiel, who I loved very much until she passed in my 20s), and I had the BIGGEST crush on his son Geoff (we would always find each other at dances and slow dance to 2 specific songs together). I remember going to their house for seminary, and someone told me Emily & Geoff's dad was a writer, but I was oblivious to him. I just remember thinking they must be rich because their house was HUGE. (Later in life, I've seen the huge OSC sections at book stores, and everything made sense.) I was a convert to the church, and left after only 4 or so years, but I have very fond memories of the youth in each of my wards (we moved a lot), and still wonder what Emily & Geoff may be up to now that we're all in our 40s. Thanks for reading if you did, this video is SO interesting. I had no idea Sanderson was Mormon🤯

[@naomi.j.m.]

I’m not Mormon but that’s still a cool story!!

[@justkiddin84]

Wow! It’s funny how we don’t notice things as kids, and think later-oh! why didn’t I see that? 😂. I liked some of his books, then later heard what a Dick he is, but didn’t know he is Mormon.

[@fosteringconversations3224]

Trying to place you since I was also in that ward and attend seminary at the Cards house in the 90s. I'm so curious now 😂 but I don't know how to send a pm

[@depilou]

@@fosteringconversations3224 What! No way!! I was only in that ward for 1 year, and honestly I was probably pretty forgettable. lol. I also don't know how to send a PM and I don't want to share too much personal info here. Perhaps we can move this convo to another platform? Thoughts?

[@greywolf7577]

@@depilou Did Emily know you had a crush on her brother? If so, how did she feel about it?

[@kidrissa]

A Mormon analysis of the Twilight books from a former Mormon who has also been trained as an English teacher and written a book would be VERY insightful.

[@Ekiwixo]

The quote “fruits shall know them” is so interesting cause it’s further proof that the Mormon church is all about outer appearances. Every Mormon family displays this loving, caring, devoted and tight knit bond between them but it’s all for show! Just how many Mormon families in the past couple years have been exposed for awful things like child abuse?? Ruby Franke, Hannah the 17 diapers mom, the couple that killed two children so they could be together. Each of those families were seen as “perfect” when they were anything but. They are basically saying “how can our belief be wrong when our members are so happy?? “ when the church puts such heavy emphasis on appearances. They aren’t happy. They aren’t perfect. The entire purpose is to present as perfect.

[@SonyavanStee]

By their fruits you shall know them is not a Mormon expression. It's from the Bible

[@justkiddin84]

They are obviously far from happy-and that is fine with those disgusting old men running the cult. As long as they tithe, and toe the line, and keep TRYING to get that elusive godhood, supplying their children, they don’t care. It’s horrible. Hannah the Dirty Diaper Queen put up their budget-$600 to tithing, both of them working, plus the social media income, but $35 is too much for a coat for their child, that could be set aside and used again for the baby, or given to charity. They have been indoctrinated to be miserable, selfish, and cruel.😞

[@oswaldrabbit1409]

ah no, this is obvious? This isn't a religious question, but a logical one. One knows somebody's heart through their actions and the results they bring. "Actions speak louder than words" anybody? Is there anybody who actually disagrees with this? "Words are cheap?" "Actions speak louder than words?" "A tongue doesn't get anything done?" "Words cost nothing, actions can cost everything?" Those are just the few that pop into my head straight away, I am sure there are a bunch of others.

[@joeshriver778]

And how many of other religions do the same?

[@justkiddin84]

@@joeshriver778 you mean cults? It’s a cult.

[@kathleenbell8098]

I’d love to see a video about liberal Mormons or the liberal to conservative spectrum within the church.

[@justkiddin84]

😂😂😂I bet it would be fairly short. But growing. The Scientology cult is crumbling because of the internet, and it has hit the LDS pretty hard, as well. Hence the BIG Christian Nationalist push right now-desperation from all of the extremists.

[@sun1one1]

Me too!

[@Phlegetron5000]

This is so cool! I had no idea Brandon Sanderson was still practicing. Thank you for such amazing well made videos ❤ My dad briefly took me to a Mormon church but left when he realized what my life would be like as a woman. I love learning about the bullet I dodged as a kid haha

[@justkiddin84]

Give your Dad a hug for me!

[@flootzavut30daychallenge]

Bless your dad

[@function0077]

I was raised Mormon, and I have been an exmo for at least a decade. There is the game called "Six Degrees of Kevin Bacon". I think I am like, at most, four degrees from Stephanie Meyer (author), Brandon Sanderson (author), & Greg Olsen (painter), due to my large Mormon extended family. Also, I was shocked to learn that Brandon Mull, the author of Fablehaven is Mormon, because I read all of those books to my daughter when she was younger.

[@AmberBlase]

I was obsessed with building a fantasy world as a child, drawing it, imagining life there, writing little stories about it. And just happened to reject the church (while being forced to continue going), from a very young age. Anyway I never considered that there could be a link. Thank you!

[@ember7113]

3:10 In case anyone was wondering, the tunnels are real. My cousin used to work for the church and and used them to get around the various downtown buildings.

[@eligreene2898]

That’s so wild but mildly cool but in a horror movie kind of way.

[@BurningBlades1]

Secret tunneeeeeel!

[@Aaron.Thomas]

They're not really secret...they're just pragmatic and secure.

[@justkiddin84]

It’s wild, though😂.

[@minngael]

There's so many books imagining esoteric things the Vatican keeps under wraps ( Dan Brown is the tip of the iceberg) Mormonism would be ripe for something like that!

[@carriegarlock9194]

When I was in middle school, my first attempt at novel was a figure staking/hockey romance. If I had stuck with it I would be a millionaire as these are some of the best selling sports romance

[@BlackSeranna]

The Cutting Edge comes to mind, it was a pretty good movie!

[@lucienfortner841]

"figure staking" is such a fantastic typo because now it sounds like a vampire sports story 😂

[@squidthing]

​@@lucienfortner841 There's an episode of Buffy the Vampire Slayer where she figure skates! Somebody should write some fanfiction with the names changed and cash in lol

[@firehazard1995]

Has anyone "poor" ever held a high calling in the Church? Seems like the more money you make and tith, the higher the calling.

[@marquitaarmstrong399]

ZINGER!!!!🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉😂😂😂😂❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤

[@fepatton]

No. Church leadership is populated with businessmen, doctors and lawyers rather than, y’know, actual theologians. 🙄 It’s also well known that to be in the highest local position (Stake Presidency), you need to be in the area’s highest percent tithe payers.

[@HosCreates]

my old bishop is not wealthy but now he's in the stake presidency and humble as hell.

[@firehazard1995]

@@HosCreates Thanks for the reply! And good for him for being humble.

[@mainchannel1566]

Mormons have low poverty rates because the lifestyle is the opposite of how lower class people live.

[@Jramos93]

Alyssa, your channel is so wholesome. And I appreciate you giving us an insight into what your life used to be inside the Mormon world. I think you should give writing another chance. Id purchase it for sure 🎉🎉

[@ellycall3851]

This is so interested, loved the perspective you brought to the issue too. Happy to be a new follower!

[@Stevie.lovesbooks]

If you want a woman written epic high fantasy with rich world building of several cultures, political intrigue and amazing character study with slight romance subplots like men do: Robin Hobb If you want a wonderful written fantasy with great world building, a unique magic and still a substantial focus on the romance: Laini Taylor

[@jefftitterington7600]

Andre Norton's Witch World novels have strong females, although she had to lean into what her market would buy.

[@justkiddin84]

@@jefftitterington7600Yes! I love her books! If you like a horror twist to your fantasy, Tanith Lee will feed that hunger! Some are so scary-Clive Barker scary some of them.

[@meikahidenori]

Don't forget about Margaret Weis. She was a prolific writer during the TSR days of D&D

[@quiddityocean]

Robin Hobb, absolutely !!! Did you know she also writes under the name Megan Lindholm ? Also. May I add Elisabeth Vonarburg to this list ? I strongly recommend Motherland and her Tyranaël series.

[@Stevie.lovesbooks]

@quiddityocean amazing info! Totally noted!

[@charlesleroq932]

Sanderson's attitude is very liberal, and the critique of him is something leftwing people often make of liberals - That while they might acknowledge structural issues, they shrug - and sometimes feel threatened - at the possibility of fundamental change, thus abetting right leaning politics

[@alexber8838]

I mean, attitude is just superficial, we judge people for the effect they have on the world, and so we should judge Sanderson.

[@charlesleroq932]

@alexber8838 Superficial is a good way of putting it. I dislike how overused the term "virtue signalling" is, but it's exactly what he's doing in the clip. He wants all the credit for taking a certain position, whilst risking nothing to effect positive change. He's doing the famous person version of changing his Facebook avatar for a day in honor of a cause

[@alexber8838]

​@@charlesleroq932 To me it seems Branderson actually believes he's doing the best move he can. With "believe" meaning he has faith his choice is correct, not that he has put any serious thinking and feeling over the matter. Is not that different from all his other takes and positions. He just chooses easy victories, like "being bad to gay people is bad". Like, ok, is literally the lowest fruit available, you only look remarkable by virtue of being surrounded by people who cannot even reach there. And you choose to keep them as company, so...

[@5Gburn]

​@@charlesleroq932Well put.

[@mscout1]

Well the thing is, Brandon Sanderson has enough fame and cultural mass, that he might be able to actually push change from the inside. In Warbreaker he has a character who realizes that her extreme and misfitting 'modesty' is not actually modest at all. In insisting on her modest manner of dress, in a climate where it's uncomfortable, in a culture where is sticks out like a sore thumb, while negatively judging everyone around her for dressing in comfortable clothing that fits in, she's actually being rather arrogant. That's something that some Mormons really need to hear, and they won't listen to it from the rest of us. But if another Mormon is saying that, then maybe it's ok to listen to and think about. Being a very visible of example of a mormon who thinks that the Church is just wrong about LGBT people (and indeed someone who evolved on that point), make it just a little easier for others to take that same position.

[@jendecolongon6391]

This was such an eye-opening video. I didn't get into the Twilight novels, after I struggled to finish the first one. One line that I remember from it that really put me off was Edward Cullen calling Bella his "heroin". Treating any addictive substance as "sexy" demonstrates Myers' naivete (at best). As a Gen Xer, I thought it reprehensible too that Myers' editor didn't pick up on this, given the book's intended young readership. Your observations on Bella as a dismal female archetype with little agency and autonomy ring true for me too.

[@jaginaiaelectrizs6341]

But the thing is that he wasn't trying to be sexy, when he said that, he was trying to be unsexy and explain or lament over why them being together was a crazy unwise idea. The thing that really ticked me off about Twilight was the way that Bella completely and utterly refused to acknowledge or engage with almost any of his concerns or red flags any time he would bring them up with her-her response was literally always basically just "well, I don't care though, so why should we even think about this twice at all and how dare you even think it or bring it up"-except when it came to his and his family's refusal to engage with the members of her bestie's wolf pack like actual individuals and actual persons / human beings, the same as they would anyone else, and she refused to tolerate them trying to forbid her from interacting with them, to which he did eventually concede and pretty much admit that she was right that he had been being totally unfair and discriminatory and should have trusted / deferred to her judgment and greater familiarity with them over his own basic ignorance. Like, he compared himself to the antagonistic character in Wuthering Heights or something, noting how many commonalities he had with them and how he wanted to be better himself than that and better than he had been before.....and she was basically just like "wtf are you talking about, stfu; literally never change, because I'm already obsessed with you just the way you are". 👀 And I was like... literally, girl. ..please, stop.>__< Wanted to smash my own head in on a desk, or something. 😅😅🙃👀😅 Lol

[@JadeOhara]

There's a Chinese drama that calls Addicted Heroin and the whole novel was written considering their names sound like a drug and they are addicted to each other.

[@gisellemedina2513]

PLEASE A TWILIGHT ANALYSIS WITH A MORMON LENSE WOULD BE SOOO GOOD

[@athesecond9081]

Would really like to hear your deep dive about Twilight!! I was so excited when I saw the Twilight cover in this thumbnail because I'm really looking forward to hearing your thoughts about it!!

[@sierra5877]

Damn, would have loved for you touch on Rebecca yarros who’s “Romantasy” Fourth Wing series has completely blown up the last year. Was slightly surprised about the pretty graphic and recurring spiciness🌶️ throughout the series between the unmarried main characters after hearing she is Mormon.

[@Butterfly-ql4pg]

I remember hearing somewhere that she's not currently active, so that might explain why she's not as closed off to that kind of stuff

[@karajara9627]

I heard she's ex-Mormon. Really funny how she not so subtly refers to this on her about page on her website saying she loves to "guzzle coffee" in her free time. ☕️

[@Annie5825]

I’m so surprised to find out she’s Mormon! Those books have some extremely explicit scenes.

[@Dragonofgarnet]

Wait she's Mormon too?

[@justkiddin84]

So, I went out again (about the fourth time during this video and chat😂) and it is blurry. She describes herself as a ‘coffee addict’ and some ex-LDS folks say she is ex also, but there does not seem to be a clear statement from her. Maybe Alyssa can find out? It may be that she is kind of stuck in a gray area, not wanting to speak against the cult and alienate her family. She has a nasty genetic disorder that has messed with her joints. And on Goodreads, there are a lot of folks who don’t like her books, but since I have not read her, I can’t comment on that.✌️

[@violetskies14]

I'd love for you to read some Brandon Sanderson just because I'm fascinated to hear your take on the themes in his books which so often argue against blind or zealous faith. In particular I'd love for you to read Elantris because it was his first book and it feels more personal than some of his later books. He's even said the zealous missionary character is based on himself as a missionary which is very interesting to me considering the doubts that character has. Not everyone likes Elantris, especially compared to his later work, but I love it and I think you'd find it fascinating.

[@pippaschroeder4388]

In his new release Wind and Truth and there’s also a lot of themes of finding the answers yourself instead of just being told the answers or relying on an objective law

[@mackss9468]

Girl, Louisa May Alcott would be rolling in her grave if she knew you categorized Little Women as a romance. Alcott was a major feminist and it’s been awhile since I read the book, but to me Jo was always in love with her craft, first and foremost. In the book she denies Laurie’s advances and travels to NYC to become a writer. Alcott’s publishers demanded that Jo be married by the end of the book or they wouldn’t publish it, expecting her to marry Jo off to Laurie. But instead Alcott had Jo marry a random professor she meets only at the end of the book because she refused to make her book about Jo and Laurie’s relationship, and as sort of a f*ck you to the publishers, refusing to have the book end the way they wanted it to. Just my two cents, but I had to say something because Alcott doesn’t deserve to be remembered as a cookie-cutter girl’s author, she was a revolutionary that wrote about female artists following their passions… except for maybe Meg, but Meg is barely mentioned in the book… probably purposely).

[@KaylaidoscopeASMR]

This one over here 👈🏼 the comment I’ve been looking for! 👏🏼 👏🏼👏🏼 seems like she hasn’t really read it (maybe just watched the movie but even then…)

[@Scottyphoenix42]

Damn Alyssa, where were you when I was writing my dissertation? I literally wrote on Mormonism in Twilight, published last year... 😀 No, seriously, I'm glad this is getting some love. It is one of those things that I never understood why people don't talk about it more. So thanks!

[@AlexDincht]

Oh yes, please, I would _love_ a deep dive into _Twilight_ through a mormon lens! Watching your videos I often find myself thinking, "Oh, so _that's_ why that questionable thing is in it" (PoC vampires being "upgraded" to white in what's essentially their afterlife, anyone?), and that's already been enlightening, so I'd love more! Though I want to cut Smeyer some slack: I do believe her when she says she didn't have an agenda and was just writing what she knew. _Twilight_ ultimately comes across as a relatively harmless wish-fulfilment story, not a political manifesto or social commentary: of course she just lined up tropes she finds romantic, and that selection and how she played with them is informed, among other things, by her religion. I'm more willing to be lenient with her than with other authors who _were_ aiming to social commentary and then fell completely short of that (hello, Joanne).

[@angelawossname]

Yeah, it seemed to me that Stephenie Meyer didn't understand her own subtext, it was just all subconscious on her part.

[@TaraIsEarth]

grew up evangelical and yup! wasnt allowed to read harry potter because of witchcraft. didnt stop me however

[@probowler2000]

Same!

[@colettelee1162]

Same! And now I'm torn about reading the books as an adult because the author is so awful

[@davidlloyd7597]

​@colettelee1162 do you mean because of her stance against transsexualism?

[@jenniferbeardtrusty1671]

And, our church went to midnight releases as a group. 😂🎉

[@rosemariecawkwell2233]

I was at university when they became really popular and had read a lot of fantasy by then, but I gave them a try. I forced myself through the first three and gave up. They're so badly written. I reread books written for a similar age group, and enjoyed them much more, because for example, Tamora Pierce, is a much better writer than JK Rowling.

[@Yordleton]

The 2000s reboot of Battlestar Galactica took a lot of the LDS religious themes and subverted them. The original 70s show was VERY Mormon, and the newer one really does a good job keeping some of the Mormon-inspired story elements while being more realistic and gritty. It's worth a watch if you get the chance!

[@BonnieDragonKat]

It's in the 1977 and 1978 versions as well. Although it's not as blatant. But it's there if you know what you're looking for you can find it.

[@Incoming1983]

So say we all.

[@camiledionne-west6233]

As an ace I found many of these stories more relatable as sex was not the be all and end all of all relationships

[@edamamame4U]

As another asexual person , please kindly note that the Mormon church would still sadly look down on us and probably see our asexuality as a mental illness.

[@countschad]

What do uou mean by "ace?" I know about cards and pilots... thanks.

[@MagnusItland]

@@countschad Ace=Asexual, someone who does not want sexual intercourse.

[@bluester7177]

​@@countschadasexual

[@arturogonzalez-barrios8206]

What a beautiful documentary! Besides the whole acquisition of the TV, your storytelling is so great and your video shows so much effort

[@conanrocksmysox]

I read several of his books then found out Sanderson was Mormon and suddenly all of the very awkward romance made sense.

[@sylviameadow8737]

In the conservative evangelical Christian community I was brought up in, the maximally Christian (especially homeschool families) tended to read quite a lot. Reading books was viewed as more wholesome than many other activities, especially for youth. Of course we are encouraged to read the Bible and also Bible study books. Looking back, I note that hand-choosing the books your children can read carefully limits which voices and ideas they are allowed to hear - easier to control than the opinions of the other kids on a soccer team, theater group, dance group, etc. I assumed a similar dynamic is at play in Mormon communities and was not surprised at all that Sanderson and other authors are Mormon.

[@johngregson6252]

Orson Scott Card was probably my favorite author as a teen. I loved his Ender's series had interesting ideas about compassion and understanding aliens. I knew he was Mormon and it influenced his work but what surprised me is that a lot of his work had a strong emphasis on Catholicism. Later in the series it takes place on a Catholic planet and their are deep religious discussions but it never seemed like he disliked Catholic teaching. Then I found out he went to Brazil for missionary and then it clicked I was really sad that he came so strong out against Gay marriage as his books always seemed to scream that everyone should be treated with respect even different species.

[@davidlloyd7597]

I didn't know about his anti-gay marriage stance. I remember discussing him with a fantasy author fan and he said that OSC was in the bad books of many people. This may explain why.

[@johngregson6252]

@@davidlloyd7597 Same with me I found out later. I know his later series there is a minor character who is gay but just cures himself to be straight in order to have kids.

[@thomasjoychild4962]

@@davidlloyd7597 He's also a proponent of a number of right-wing conspiracy theories, which may be a part of it.

[@cobaltpterodactyl]

Same! It also clicked for me when I found out he used to be a science/tech journalist and that might be why his scientific plots were actually not as preposterous as most science fiction authors. I don't want to doxx myself but I went to a highschool with a lot of OSC fans and a lot of queer people and a lot of overlap (including me and my best friend) and our conclusion is: steal his books. Or more realistically only get them from second-hand shops or libraries or read fan fiction

[@justkiddin84]

There is a very real extremist Catholic and Mormon crossover, add in some Scientology. See Angel Studios.

[@01Aigul]

Alyssa Grenfell discussing fantasy literature? Christmas came early this year!

[@alyssadgrenfell]

🎄🎄🎄🎄🎄

[@01Aigul]

@@alyssadgrenfell 🎄⚔🪄

[@marquitaarmstrong399]

I know! I ❤ her!

[@foolishreader]

Thank you for making this video. As a fantasy reader I find myself thinking about this topic often especially in regard to Brandon Sanderson. It’s nice to hear a knowledgeable perspective.

[@cambriamilner8593]

John green wrote a fault in our stats Hank is the science one

[@Dionysus999]

Love your cat eye makeup! Also a video on Mormon Disney adults might be interesting to explore

[@samjensen392]

As I’ve been rereading the Stormlight Archive (I haven’t gotten very far into the 5th book yet, so no spoilers), a funny thing I’ve noticed is how much the Mormon purity culture has (whether consciously or subconciously) affected how Brandon Sanderson writes about sex. Namely, in the later books, he brings it up A Lot (not descriptive sex scenes, but a considerable amount of fade-to-black/immediately afterward)-but only within marriage; the only main character that has canonically had sex outside of marriage is the famously staunch atheist. One of the main couples wasn’t married until the end of the third book, and before that, there was virtually no mention of sex save for a one-off conversation played for levity, but now they can’t keep their hands off each other. It very much plays into the culture that I definitely grew up within, which is very “0-to-100, as soon as you get married, you’re gonna fuck like rabbits, gift you lingerie at the bridal shower” sort of deal

[@LastMinuteGuess]

That’s an interesting idea. I always just interpreted that as Sanderson being a very PG author but that also explains why sex appears the way that it does when he tries to write it.

[@thomasjoychild4962]

I think that's in large part about the social mores of Alethi culture, rather than it being Brandon talking about what he thinks is normal or right. He's said in a few Q&As that the thing in the Vorin religion about women's hands was a deliberate attempt by those writing the scriptures to restrict women's roles (and I think specifically about stopping them using shardblades in particular). He's said (in the annotations for warbreaker IIRC) that, while he's mormon and he's made promises to follow rules related to it, his characters aren't part of that faith and haven't made those promises, so he's got no problem with writing his characters doing "un-mormon" things in a neutral or positive way.

[@erinr3769]

Hey don't forget Palona and Sebarial who have been bravely breaking down barriers since the beginning!

[@aly-z1h]

Your comments on Brandon Sanderson’s views on LGBTQ+ people versus the Mormon church reminds me of the concept of “doublethink” from 1984 by George Orwell. Having two contradictory beliefs, where personal ideology clashes with the idea that the church/the system knows best, is astonishing to me. I don’t think it’s exactly the same as the point you are speaking to, but interesting nonetheless!

[@angelawossname]

He is still giving 10% of his income to the Mormon Church, which in turn gives a shitload of money to anti lgbtq hate groups, so he doesn't get a free pass as far as I'm concerned. He's not an ally by any means. If he was, he'd convert to CofC. I mean, it's right there! He could keep all his other Mormon beliefs while not giving money to anti lgbtq hate groups.

[@thomasjoychild4962]

Just to add to your points. He's said (in the annotations for warbreaker IIRC) that, while he's mormon and he's made promises to follow rules related to it, his characters aren't part of that faith and haven't made those promises, so he's got no problem with writing his characters doing "un-mormon" things in a neutral or positive way.

[@k--music]

I think it's caused him a lot of cognitive dissonance though, as evidenced by his answers becoming more liberal over time and especially the books themselves. But it's still at a point where he seems to absolve himself / cure that feeling by saying he doesn't agree with the church on everything, rather than trying to fight for some change or other in the institutions. That said, I don't think he believes the system knows best, I think it's more so that he believes in the faith and thinks the organization has flaws.

[@Jemmainadilemma]

disagree that wuthering heights, pride and pred and little women are ‘essentially romances’. i’d say wuthering heights is more about generational abuse and a homage to the landscape, little women is a book about family and finding what makes you happy and pride and prejudice is about class and is more a social satire than anything else. of course all have romance plots that are important to the story, and the fact that women at the time were limited in how and where they could find fulfilment in life more than they are today obviously plays a part in why that would be. i totally agree with what you’re saying about being given these books because they’re deemed more appropriate to for girls and boys get the more interesting adventure world building books and it’s very valid that you experienced them as such. but there is a lot more to get out of them than the romance plot and i’m surprised that wuthering heights in particular is something that was given to you as i found most of the characters to be pretty awful and abusive lol. i would recommend watching octavia cox’s videos about jane austen’s work! really interesting video, thanks!

[@MatLinnett1]

New sub here, although I've watched some of your videos before. I'm a life-long atheist. I grew up in 70s England, where I sang in the choir and we would say the Lord's Prayer every morning at assembly. Yet at the same time, Dad was exposing me to a lot of classical mythology, mostly Norse and Greek. And I remember one of my first questions regarding religion to him being "Why do people say that God is real but these other gods aren't?" I first learned about Mormonism during GCSE history, where my favourite teacher, Mr. Birch, gave us an outline of it and how it was founded. It was also my first time coming across the word polygamy! He painted a very interesting picture, and encouraged us to draw parallels with other cults, including L. Ron Hubbard's Scientology and Alistair Crowley. This means I always have a curiosity about the Church. Although he was never clear on exactly what form Joseph Smith's golden plates took, so for the longest time I imagined them as dinner plates... Regarding appreciating a artist's work but not the artist: I think this is one of those things where contemporary thinking is failing us. If you choose to cancel or censure an artist purely based on their personality, you are immediately closing paths of potential learning, both for yourself and for the artist. And we have to realise that over time, ALL art and artists will end up offending someone; it's inevitable. Hell, things you adored when you were younger may suddenly begin to look a bit dodgy with hindsight (I loved the original Fright Night as a kid; I rewatched it this Halloween, and while still good, ye gods, that intro is decidedly creepy, and not in a good way.) But the rational person should be able to accept these differences, or at least be able to think about why the artist thought that way; upbringing, social environment, trauma, associates... all these things and more make a person, and we as people have no control over this, we can only choose how to interpret them. If you don't attempt this understanding, all you are left with is irrational hatred.

[@Alyssa_M513]

The part where you talked about the content of the male vs female writers was sad. I love listening to your takes. You are so well spoken! Excited for the "my husband is not gay video." I've seen a video about that show recently and am looking forward to your take on it.

[@andywindes4968]

Which invites comparisons to Scientology. The trouble with Hubbard and Smith (who didn't know he was writing sci-fi, obviously) is that they wrote a very old-school style of sci-fi. Even the style of sci-fi inspired by Mormonism is very dated and not terribly interesting. It really is very telling, however, that these Mormon authors would tacitly recognize their "religion" as the basis for a sci-fi tale.

[@alyssadgrenfell]

Very true, Mormonism gets compared to scientology often, and with good reason. I forgot to mention in this video that Battlestar Galactica was written by a Mormon! There's a lot of cross over for sure.

[@SoviCalc]

@@alyssadgrenfell Great video as usual. On parallels between Scientology and Mormonism (and scifi!): I've never seen any Mormon or ex-Mormon content creator comment on Scientology's "Archives Project," which entails the transcription of its scriptural material onto metal plates to be sealed inside apocalypse-proofed mountain vaults. Full disclosure: I'm a former Scientologist (born in) and I've actually touched samples of the plates when they were showing them off at one of their Sea Org groups in LA (Author Services, Inc). ALSO, when I finally broke free and began looking into other religions, I found Fawn Brodie's "No Man Knows My History" and had full body goosebumps when I read the publication year: 1945. LRH published what would become the first rung of the Scientology ladder (they say "bridge") in May, 1950, a full five years later. Reading Brodie I could easily see its utility as a guidebook for how to construct a religion - and even what pitfalls to avoid. It's almost enough to make me put together my own video! Almost. PS, this is an official Scientology clip so maybe use a VPN before clicking, but here's more about the Archives Project: tinyurl.com/scnarchive

[@andywindes4968]

@@alyssadgrenfell It makes you wonder what the church leadership thinks of all of this--Mormonism as bad sci-fi I've lived in Las Vegas since I was a little kid (50 years) and as you probably know, there are lots of Mormons in Las Vegas. To this day, I have many Mormon friends, and of course nearly all of them have spent time trying to convert me. Generally, I would live and let live, but one tactic I would use on. the more aggressive 'recruiters' back in high school was to bring up the original Battlestar Galactica, a show nearly everyone despised at the time, and we would talk about how stupid it was. At the right time, I'd point out how many things it had in common with Mormonism, and that would usually end the recruitment drive. If someone was particularly obnoxious, I would play dirty and point out all the evidence that showed Brigham Young ordered the Mountain Meadows Massacre. That usually ended up in a lost friendship, but at least I got some peace. 😁

[@tatli3630]

​@@SoviCalcyes, you should totally make a video about this!

[@ranyaahmed8641]

the jo in little women dreams of being a published author and I dreamed with her tidbit broke my heart - I hope you will still pursue the things that the younger version of you dreamt about

[@sourcandyspite]

i almost cried when she said that!

[@agnesrenie3988]

​@@lcvick I agree. I was a bit disappointed.

[@Luboffin]

Literally just started reading Brandon Sanderson and didn’t know he is a Mormon! Thanks, this video was really interesting.

[@timholland1764]

Really love your channel! As a fantasy fan, I can say that I think Brandon Sanderson seems like an awesome person. I don't love his books, but I love what he does for the space. Great perspective from you on this interesting topic.

[@CarlosRodriguez-dh7mm]

I love Sanderson. Mormonism is all over his world building and plotting. I think the familiarity of Christian influences mixed with more exotic Mormon influences is intriguing to general audiences. If you want to know what's Mormon in his books, feel free to ask me. Be careful about spoilers below this comment.

[@alyssadgrenfell]

Thanks, Carlos! I feel well equipped to address Mormonism in Twilight but I didn't grow up reading Sanderson so he's more of a mystery to me!

[@Klarid]

What are some of the biggest mormon-y parts? Genuinely curious, since I get a general "mormon vibe" from some of it, but I am and was raised atheist, so I don't really know what parts exactly. Is there something about dying and becoming a god in the Mormon religion, or am I making that up? (I am immune to spoilers btw)

[@emmamoreno5590]

I was very harshly reminded that he was Mormon in Well of Ascension when Vi and Elend have very little sexual tension between them, to getting married the same day they were questioning their relationship and then immediately getting it on in a tent (of screen of course). His romance is always so safe it is painful. Not a smut person, but the escalation of romance is just NOT there lol 😅

[@chaoticpoodle]

The most Mormon thing I've noticed in Sanderson's books is that they are very comfortable with god-hood being bestowed on humans. They also have a more traditional view on love

[@CarlosRodriguez-dh7mm]

@@Klarid Thanks for asking. I was raised heavily evangelical and am an atheist now so take what I say with a grain of salt. Yes, ascending to godhood and having dominion of your own created worlds is Mormon. Additionally, I think Kelsier is obviously Jesus, but less obviously Joseph Smith. This is maybe my favorite Mormon connection that I haven't seen anybody else talk about. Smith was a con artist who created a religion around himself and was accused of wanting to take over the country as a religious theocracy during his presidential campaign. He was becoming a militant threat creating his own militia force and burning down a press building for his own political interests. He then died a martyr along with his brother leaving behind no obvious successor to his movement. Similarly, Kelsier (HEAVY SPOILERS) was a thief who created a religion around himself and lead a religious revolution against the existing government. He was radicalized becoming a militant threat and created his own militia forces while committing acts of terror aligning with his political interests. He then died a martyr, as well as his brother (for a time) leaving behind no obvious successor to his movement. Sazed is a critique of Mormon missions as well as a deconstruction and reconstruction of faith. Dalinar is a perfect exemplar of a conversion story, and then being treated as an outcast for having a more nuanced religiosity (like how Christians treat Mormons). Heralds and Kandra are two variations of angels. Ruin corporate corrupts religious text similarly to how some Mormons believe Satan may have corrupted the Bible. (This seems maybe a more niche belief, but I'm unsure) Starting from scratch and resettling the wild at the end of Mistborn 3 feels very much to me like Mormons braving the wilderness until they settle Utah. They view it similarly to the Israelites traveling the wilderness. So then Salt Lake City being like their Jerusalem or Eden is also kinda like Elendel. This would make Spook their Brigham Young, the successor and leader of the faith who actively communes with the previous one. Oh, and Kelsier revealed himself as a god to the southern Scadrians after he died. Just like Jesus appeared to the Native Americans after he died. I have a longer list, but this is the gist. I don't think these correlations are all intentional. I find myself accidentally writing Moses into my stories all the time. I'm willing to bet most of this is accidental and subconscious. And maybe I'm dead wrong about some of it.

[@anavargas883]

Oh I would definitely be interested in a Twilight deep dive! I can hear you talk for hours (and I have hahaha)! Keep cup the great video content! I love hearing your personal story after being friends with and having a Mormon roommate in college!

[@BasilOnatopp]

At 1:13:20 there’s a pic of Stephenie Meyer and Shannon Hale. The woman in the middle is Jerusha Hess, Mormon and director of Austenland. Her husband is Mormon, director, and writer Jared Hess (Napoleon Dynamite). Napoleon Dynamite also stars Mormons Jon Heder (Napoleon), and Aaron Ruell (Kip).

[@CapitalCLYDE]

I tried to watch Austenland and I hated it which sucked cause I love Jane Austen.

[@justkiddin84]

@@CapitalCLYDEAnd now you know why. It is basically propaganda.🫤

[@jmcmontanheiro]

Please do the twilight video. This one was great! Already subscribed ❤

[@BogdanTestsSoftware]

The Mormon spaceship in Expanse books & series makes so much sense now. Not that I would be into this religious thinking

[@apolloskyfacer5842]

So what's new ? Joseph Smith was the first one who wrote a book of fantasy.

[@darrinsteven7002]

What Fantasy Book did Joe Smith write?

[@BanazirGalpsi1968]

Not the first but it IS fantasy.

[@BanazirGalpsi1968]

I consider a lot of Greek myth to be fantasy.

[@BanazirGalpsi1968]

​@@darrinsteven7002the book of mormon, the pearl of great price, most of what Joseph Smith wrote...

[@BanazirGalpsi1968]

I am a born-again Christian I do not consider the 66 books to be fantasy they are fact in reality. Joseph Smith on the other hand is pure fantasy.

[@imjustcookingpizza9354]

I know ballroom dancing is big in mormonism, but there's also a MASSIVE amount of elite competitive dancers who are mormon. Some of the best competitive dance studios in the western world are located in Utah and Arizona, with huge mormon clienteles. They excel in ballet, jazz, contemporary, tap, musical theatre, and of course ballroom.

[@panickedshears]

Correct me if I’m wrong, but aren’t some of the current/former coaches on Dancing With The Stars mormon (or exmo)?

[@marocat4749]

Is that jane austins influence (who was lower nobility and a woman so that was the marketplace to hear stuff and talk and et the news and rumors and stuff, i get it)

[@imjustcookingpizza9354]

@@panickedshears Yes several of them are former The Dance Awards title winners / runner ups

[@criscarvalhoss1]

This video felt so emotional, Alyssa. Thank you for sharing with us.

[@xalamari]

Thank you for this video! Mormonism has always fascinated me, so to hear this topic specifically from someone who is a former Mormon is super cool.

[@samanthalong3419]

Speaking of fields with a wild amount of Mormons, I'm an opera singer and I had never met a Mormon until I went to my undergrad (out of state) for music, and since then I've met (what I'm pretty sure is) a WILDLY disproportionate number of Mormons in the classical music community, particularly singers

[@rkstevenson5448]

The most basic answer is almost certainly "because they're nerds." It's the same reason so many fellow Mormon kids in my school played D&D. This despite the fact that, at the time (mid 90s), the church was still *very* adamant about not playing D&D. In my heavily Mormon community, our high school principal was Mormon and actually refused to allow a "strategy games club" because he learned we'd be playing D&D.

[@joeshriver778]

No where in our teachings is D&D condemned. Have them point to where role playing is condemned

[@ronanjohnson9718]

Idk why I thought it was relevant to post this but my Roman Catholic high school had a strong D&D and Warhammer club, is there a connection do you think (I am still a compulsive d&d and warhammer player btw)