The Blueprint For Reversing Our Wicked Culture

[@themahrs]

Klavan is excellent in articulating exactly why I mysteriously have disdain for something.

[@hvalenti]

Mysterious disdain, eh?🤔

[@aesop1451]

Occam's Razor: The reason I don't like Wicked is because I don't like theater kid culture and if I watched it on my own without the discourse surrounding it, I would probably enjoy some of it. I'm as right-wing as they come and I think Tangled is a stronger film than Frozen, but "For the First Time in Forever (Reprise)" is the best song in that film. That being said, I can name several right-wing works of fiction that are male-oriented off the top of my head. The Lion King, Dune, Fight Club, and The Incredibles for example. As you can see, I didn't include generic action film schlock. An American soldier fighting for the military-industrial complex in Iraq or Afghanistan is not based and redpilled. Anyways, I have a harder time coming up with deep and well-made works for females. Of course you have the classics like Anne of Green Gables, Pride and Prejudice, Little Women, etc. Perhaps Beauty and the Beast...Mulan...Princess Mononoke...I've also thought about action heroes like Sailor Moon and the Miraculous Ladybug. I haven't watched any of these by the way, but they don't seem woke to me. Klavan is a Boomer Choo, he probably thinks we can redpill all the women by showing them "I Love Lucy." I'm right-wing and I don't like the Trad Wife trend. Men should not aspire to domesticity.

[@annebishop9634]

I knew all I needed to know about Wicked when I remembered Isaiah 5:20 Woe to those who call evil good and good evil. I won’t be going to see it.

[@caroline7420]

as much as i agree and amen the verse, the entire theme of the show is propaganda. The Wizard (who has always been a bad guy since the original books) is calling her evil because he disagrees with him becoming even more of a dictator and enslaving the animals (who in the world are on the same level as people.) Elphaba isn't doing evil things, she's fighting for good and the political powers have plastered her as a villain. Much like how political powers plaster conservatives as hateful and evil even though many of us are fighting for good.

[@chazarcola7639]

​​​@@caroline7420Excellent comment. Elphaba is unfairly branded as WICKED. Trump is unjustly slandered as HITLER.

[@chazarcola7639]

​@@caroline7420 KZbin IS BLOCKING REPLIES.

[@michaelnorris6280]

But keep in mind the movie is literally about a woman who is being called Wicked who is good, and it is criticizing that. They could’ve used that verse in the beginning of the movie and it would’ve worked.

[@tipofmytongue1024]

The entire premise of the show Wicked is EXACTLY Isaiah says. Elphaba is a good person. The Sheep keep calling her Wicked

[@drewpooters62]

If we stop paying for crap stories, starvation often cures stupid. The Critical Drinker just did a video on the death of Star Trek for that very reason.

[@Hard_Boiled_Entertainment]

Now if only Drinker actually WATCHED the movies he reviews, he'd have the credibility to lecture on what must be done. Alas, his integrity is suspect.

[@JaenEngineering]

​@@Hard_Boiled_Entertainmentany evidence to prove he doesn't?

[@Overlord_Barabbus]

@@JaenEngineering Well, Mr. Boiled has no genitals and purple hair with lipstick. HE(?) is proof he(?) is correct.

[@drewpooters62]

@@Hard_Boiled_Entertainment I find his reviews accurate, after watching what he has reviewed myself.

[@Hard_Boiled_Entertainment]

@@JaenEngineering Oh I have evidence. His review of The Flash movie, for one. He's good when talking about THE CONTEXT AROUND the film...but when he got to "the movie should've had blah blah blah" I IMMEDIATELY went, "Dude, that's LITERALLY THE CLIMAX OF THE MOVIE!!!" Course...since that's not in the trailers, he didn't know. Now, I KNOW you're gonna move the goalposts and go "Yeah but that's ONE movie"--to which I say, all you need is one compromise of your integrity to make yourself suspect. Besides...Ya Boi Zack has gone into detail on all the other times he's done that.

[@dmathis01]

I'd love to hear you talk about "Watership Down", my favorite book of all time. Richard Adams' novel of rabbits seeking a new home is about the very themes you articulate: leadership, sacrifice, courage, and most of all, the importance of stories in establishing a heroic culture. Not a children's book, this novel is for serious thinkers. I've read it many times and look forward to reading it again soon.

[@catchawave21]

Thank you, I consumed a huge bag of popcorn watching Wicked, but left feeling empty. Now I know why.

[@onorth5615]

This is the Klavan content I love most. No gimmicky bits. Just sharp cultural analysis.

[@autumnkehn9174]

Love this take Mr. Klavan. Couldn’t have said it better myself.

[@jimcorbett3764]

Klavan competently exposes this fact, but it's nothing new; Hollywood has been portraying good as evil and evil as good for as long as they have been making movies. When TV came out, they did the same thing, and they still are. They're just so much more blatant about it now than they were in previous decades.

[@MustardSeedish]

What you're saying is true. I remember watching the play and not liking the premise but loving the music. The thesis is villains are made and not born. It's culturally grooming impressionable and idealistic people to believe and hope that redemption is societal which explains a lot of the ills in our culture.

[@jimluebke3869]

When you mentioned _Perelandra,_ you left out the part where the Tolkien-character was called upon by God to prevent the corruption of that world's Eve, by facing the man who was trying to corrupt her, and beating him to d**th with his bare hands.

[@GeorgeL-b5s]

I went to this movie with my nieces expecting clever writing, that would color the motives of a known villain and her descent into villainy in such a way as to render her relatable. Instead, I find an old and beloved story hijacked with 2 dimensional heroes and villains, just all in the wrong places... And an absolute genius performance by Ariane Grande who I've only ever known by name, that almost made it worth watching.

[@MollyOKami]

I always hated "Let It Go," especially in context of the story. In my Changer stories, one of them is the leader of a Changer "herd" who ran away from responsibility. When she finally came back, so many had died because she didn't do her job; she dedicated the last 225 million years to serving that herd, as their leader, because it was her punishment for her failures (the counsel thought that death was too merciful & exile was just "more of the same"). It's a debt she can never repay…and this was all _before_ she learned that she'd even be a Changer, extending her sentence.

[@tamalam]

What's a Changer? Sounds interesting

[@MollyOKami]

@@tamalam They're stories collections I wrote as a kid based around the idea of animals chosen throughout history, given the chance to become more than animals and basically "earn a human soul." A power awakens in them that gives them the ability to alter their very DNA to change into various species, including a human, and choose their path. They become practically immortal, though they _can_ just die if their hearts give out, and they have a decent chance to revive or they can be killed in certain ways. Most live among humans, even AS humans, and they follow us, keeping our stories alive (while hiding a few of our secrets "lost to time").

[@Keverember]

One of the only points I fully disagree with Klavan: Perelandra is a masterpiece.

[@barbaragibson612]

My favorite of the C.S. Space Trilogy.

[@DavidCooper71]

Very profound take on the allegory of the Wizard as man trying to act as a g-d. Yasher koach.

[@marktregear5776]

Excellent. We need more from you that combines your deep knowledge as a scriptwriter and also a christian

[@madelinepurvis7037]

Did anyone else put it together that Elsa was the original Elphaba (Idina Menzel played both)

[@michellebaymiller3388]

Duh

[@deckardcanine]

"Let It Go" is another story. We're not supposed to believe that Elsa is doing right at that point. She gets better later.

[@Jake_AC]

Hey, Klavan production team, the sibilance on this recording is incedably distracting. Please rely on the Sure SM7 more/move it closer. There's a reason clip-on mics are not really used on podcasts.

[@onaleemcgraw4048]

A great job and profound true insights - culture and the art of storytelling - "Something more" vs. "Nothing but"

[@sandyaz5595]

I saw this with my adult children. As soon as the animals were introduced as a “cause”, I realized this was a woke movie disguised as the “beginning “ of the Wicked Witch and a fun musical. I enjoyed the music and the Elfaba actress’s voice was fantastic. BUT, cringed as the purpose of the story became clear.

[@tamalam]

Have you seen the play? Is it the same?

[@camara1194]

No it's not. The movie isn't "woke" at all and it's deplorable that everybody is saying that it is, because Wicked's been on broadway for 22 years. The animals are losing their voice and are being censorship. The show is inherently political in the sense that it deals with censorship, government overreach, who is accepted and who isn't. However, that lens is only for the land of Oz. It isn't democrat or republican politics.

[@garrettdavis6500]

The thing is, this stuff always existed in American Pop Culture,,,,but, IN THE BACK-ALLEY'S !!!! Now, it's mainstream, & the dominant "Kulture,". It has to go back to it's proper place. IN THE GUTTER !!!!

[@srice6231]

I haven't seen this movie or play but from the clips I saw I knew I wouldn't like it but couldn't articulate it. Thank you Andrew for putting into words what I was thinking but couldn't find the right words!

[@jimluebke3869]

"Everything they're is telling you to rebel against the order" They don't realize they are the order now. Which means _everything_ -- traditional values and modern "rebellion" alike -- is telling young men now, to rebel against them. =D

[@bobo577]

I say it before and I say it again, your takes surprise me, especially with the comment on fatherhood and that the Wizard overstepped his bounds. I never caught onto that.

[@mlongpre100]

for a movie they say was super successful it sure went very fast to streaming

[@AlexJaneson]

Universal does that for every movie now, no matter how successful it is. Wicked was the 3rd highest-grossing movie in the U.S. in 2024.

[@matildarei]

Interestingly enough, the broadway actress who played Ephelba on the stage, is also the woman who sang “Let It Go” in Frozen.

[@kurarisusa]

Great explanation! Thank you.

[@weisenbu2]

Excellent analysis! But what I really want to know is when is the Cameron Winter book coming out?!?!

[@lucyq7ollie]

In my lifetime, 77 years, what I've seen help to destroy the arts is athletics, which is all consuming, degradation of the arts as a waste of time as there is no future in it. Within the public school arts community, particularly in the state that I live in it became about continuous contests that were as much about parent involvement as students, enabling, not improving. It has become about entertainment, putting on a show. In the church, the mediocrity of music has destroyed the church.

[@georgewagner7787]

Poor preaching and parents not bringing their kids has destroyed the church.

[@lucyq7ollie]

@@georgewagner7787 From my perspective, when the church reacted with cowardice instead of faith in the face of covid it lost all of its power.

[@Thomas_Stearns_Eliot]

And sports are ruined. It’s sports entertainment like the WWE, leaning closer to manufacturers outcomes, betting, paying college kids that trickles down to high school kids thinking they’re stars, team/regional loyalty is gone. The Woke Virus is everywhere and meant to upturn the very nature of truth/reality. Everything’s make believe, a story, a narrative

[@Peter7966]

I saw Wicked last week... was dragged to see it. The movie had its moments, with some of the songs and acting... but it was shallow storytelling... and yes, it reflects the shallowness of our current culture. It's a social justice woke anthem... wicked is good and good is wicked. The movie took way too long to hammer that point home... and it's not not done. There's a part Two, just to remind us of how shallow and truly wicked we are, in our prosperity, openness and tolerance. I wonder how this movie would play with Hamas?

[@dukeofdenver]

@@Peter7966 The musical based on the book from the 90s is "woke"? Okay bro.

[@Peter7966]

@@dukeofdenver Woke has it's origins. It didn't hit full bloom until the last decade or so. I don't know how closely the book was adapted to the musical... and then to the movie. The movie's basic theme... what was once viewed as evil, the Wicked Witch of the West, is turned upside down. She's now a misunderstood rebel, fighting against the injustice of the Oz hierarchy, the real evil. Maybe the film is more of a retro fit to today's woke sensibilities. No matter bro, the message is clear.

[@dukeofdenver]

@@Peter7966 Doesn't the Right also reject institutions, like the Fauci stuff, like mainstream media narratives, like Big Tech censorship? The idea that rejecting institutions or people shunned by institutions are sometimes victims of false narratives isn't inherently Leftist. By any standard.

[@rapunzelz5520]

Warning: 2nd hand info but I heard that THE BOOK WICKED was VERY different from movie. and not child appropriate. IDK but passing on...I have no reason to.doubt the post I read.

[@julialostetter8855]

It is certainly not a children's book.

[@jasonbabin1190]

I am so sick of stories that give explanations and excuses for why evil characters are evil. I really don’t care to have their back stories, just like I don’t care about Hitler’s back story. They were the bad guy and let’s leave it there.

[@Luxington1]

I'd love to hear what Klavan thinks about Yellowstone and Landman. They definitely have some moral lecturing going on.

[@VikVie8788]

I heard many people praising this movie, including people I watch regularly. I didn't go to see it, not only because of ridiculous interview but also because I lately (actually for quite long now) sick of the popular series/movies/fashions. Man, I feel either old or being in insane asylum.

[@jPaulSmith1994]

Let's rebel against STUPID story telling and tech our kids GREAT, VIRTUOUS stories!

[@tommywise1702]

This is why we have so many remake movies.

[@benfaubion]

"We have to start doing likewise... " - I agree. For whatever reason, there is this ink of a stain within the entertainment industry over the position of humankind's identity. I mean they tell stories, so I get it.. but ultimately it's the same story in the Bible at multiple points. Either God is there as a creator, with rules and presence, or not.. and man is his own god, with Judeo/Christian values (and Jesus providing salvation) simply being "constructs" that are shackles that need to be shed. It's the same in the education field with a secular view of the world using Critical Theory, reducing humankind's story to simply power dynamics. In a way, they make a point.. why not shed the shackles of social construct if God isn't there holding it over our heads. They haven't shown their alternatives to have any positive and long-lasting effects though, just more fighting.

[@RallyTheTally]

I was litteraly just today auguring with people online about how right wingers need to get into the arts more, thanks for this!

[@njgrandma3519]

Good analysis. I'm sorry my granddaughters like these films. Probably because of the catchy tunes.

[@stevelenores5637]

Rehabilitating the wicked witch is like rehabilitating OJ Simpson. Of course Hollywood probably already has the script written and waiting for the time to put it on the screen.

[@lcc6744]

I love Andrew, but I couldn’t disagree more with his assessment. I thought the story of Wicked was more about the power of choices, both good and bad, that we make in response to the problems of life. And furthermore how those choices impact the community (also because I know the musical so I know what’s coming). And what happens when you step outside the community. I also took Glinda’s story arc not as one where she has to rebel to come into power. Rather for a girl who has never suffered to recognize suffering in others and how she can step outside of herself to show true kindness from the heart and how that act of kindness brings someone on the fringes into the community. The power of choices. I took away a lot of lessons that I talked through with my daughter. Honestly I thought Amala Ekpunobi gave the best review of the story of Wicked that I’ve seen online. I think, at times, it’s important to look past “good” and “evil” as blanket statements because in real life our relationships with other people are very rarely so cut and dried.

[@spenceraskew]

Wicked is the quintessential postmodern story. Man bad, misunderstood woman good. It makes us empathize with villains and villainize tradition and societal substructures. If you got value out of the story, fine. But that will be the building blocks of your daughters beliefs about the world. Story matters. Good story matters.

[@lcc6744]

@ The men weren’t all bad in the story. And that becomes more evident in part 2. And I think it’s important to teach children to see past “bad person” labels, but also how to respond to evil in power. This was a huge part of the story.

[@Claudialupper]

Witchcraft in any form is evil. It's not even about artistic craft, it's about accepting evil by stirring up sympathy for childless witches.

[@mesisson]

I like the definition of a conservative - "Someone who is trying to conserve the founding ideas of this country". Perhaps the contrasting definition of a liberal (a good word gone bad) should then be someone who is trying to "liberate" us away from those ideas, or ideals.

[@BalthasarCarduelis]

you should be conserving nations, not ideas. restoring nations, even. the idea that ideas are to be conserved, liberated from their nations, is liberal. you can't replace your children with other people's children and keep the "idea" of your family alive.

[@peterenevoldsen7199]

The fight between good and evil is the basis of most good stories. I don’t care, what Darth Vader did as a kid, he’s the bad guy.

[@colewilliams9432]

I will never watch "Wicked" or "Frozen"😂

[@Aaron-ge6ix]

Isn’t the lady who sings as Elsa in Wicked the same lady who sings as Elfaba in the wicked stage play?

[@cynthiacarter9055]

Yes, Idina Menzel did both characters.

[@Brycevtr250]

It's too bad most young girls aren't going to hear your great advice draw and it's really too bad that the girl they would listen too doesnt work for DW anymore. Talk to Jeremy and Get her back drew, fix what is broken at DW.

[@ndb232]

💯💯

[@camara1194]

That's not exactly what Wicked is about to be honest. I couldn't disagree with him more. Wicked's core theme isn't about rebellion at all. It can't be watered down to one core theme because there's multiple themes throughout this movie. How This movie isn't a woke movie, regardless of what Cynthia and Ariana (who both are very talented) say. Wicked (which is the movie adaptation of the musical, that's based off the book Wicked: The life and times of the Wicked Witch of the West) actually deals with government overreach, fascism, and the politics that are involved are applicable through the land of Oz, not our culture of Democratic and Republican politics, and they're not about OUR culture and society of "woke" as a whole. It also plays with the idea that there are always two sides to every story. If you think of the opening song "No One Mourns the Wicked," they're joyfully singing "now at last she's dead and gone" due to the propaganda that they have believed about her. No matter what she says or does, nothing is ever good enough. Haven't we all in our own lives ever felt that way? One of the many reasons why we resonate with Elphaba. Gregory McGuire discussed how it's written as holier than thou. The people of Oz call her evil and wrong, and bash her the entire movie. The entire time the people that do not like her are the evil ones but presenting themselves as better than everybody else, parading themselves as of if they are more of value. If we were going to narrow this down to a core value, it was based on a real life story about murder. There was a story in the 90s about a ten year old boy who was murdered by two other little boys in London. The people of the town were completely shell shocked. They asked the question amongst themselves "how did they know about this? Is this something that someone is innately born with of this level of Wickedness? Or is this something that nature allows them to have." Back to the opening song, that's why Glinda asks the questions "are people born wicked? Or do they have wickedness thrust upon them?" I'm very glad that this movie finally came to fruition after 22 years of being on Broadway.

[@ohifonlyx33]

I agree about the subversive messaging of women being proudly rebellious and defiant. However. The thing i think this is missing is that Elphaba isn't necessarily evil, just green, and I think Wicked is supposed to be an exploration of what makes someone become wicked (such as being rejected by "good") and whether the appearance of good always equates to good. Which can be interesting. And in that case it becomes a story about a girl becoming wicked by rebelling against the system. And good becoming wicked by failing to preserve good and stand up against corruption. But I do agree it's too entwined with feminism.

[@CRMDutchman]

So true, Klavan. I love your storytelling, the truth is in your words, our culture the Western culture is so in decline and the left feeds on it!!

[@Kordellcabe12]

It’s okay Andrew. You can just say the movie is terrible. It is. Speaking purely from a craft standpoint. It’s even worse because of the messaging.

[@NoQuarterNoMercy1]

Drew, in Frozen Elsa isn’t rebelling against society’s virtues, she’s rebelling against her parents’ instruction to suppress and hide her powers. That’s the “good girl” behavior she’s referring to. “Conceal don’t feel.” Conceal your powers by suppressing your emotions. That’s what her parents taught due to the fear and danger of her powers.

[@soldieroftruth77]

The powers are ambiguous and could be, hypothetically, the power of seduction or sexuality. I’m not saying that’s what the writers had in mind but just en example of how some things indeed should be suppressed and perhaps your parents know what they are talking about after all.

[@NoQuarterNoMercy1]

@@soldieroftruth77 I’m sorry but did you even see the movie? It’s her ice powers and only her ice powers. Any power of sexuality perceived is driven purely by your own attraction. Name ONE scene where her sex powers are implied.

[@iohannesfactotum]

Nothing offends a feminist more than being told to control herself That she is not like God, deciding Good and Evil

[@besteger]

You just described why “Let It Go” is one of Disney’s best villain songs.

[@milou4753]

Her parents were the monarchs. Surely that represents the best of society, the pinnacle, even.

[@bobgretchenhollman4159]

Andrew, at the outset, you mentioned you are on the right and then restated you were a conservative. I would not describe you as being on the "right." The late, great philosopher Roger Scruton used the word conservative - to conserve what is good. Roger has an excellent BBC presentation on beauty (esthetics was a specialty of his) and comments that prior to 1930, everyone new that art, music, and architecture were created for beauty and that is no longer the case. Thank you for being a voice for conservatism.

[@DamePiglet]

There's a difference between American political "Right"/"Conservative" and the European version of those words.

[@pathacker4963]

I am so tired of the race baiting. C.S. Lewis has been dead for years he never heard of “Wicked”. His understanding of it women was very limited.

[@Jonathan-eb5zi]

Perelandra is not a very good novel? That take alone discredits a lot of what you say. And kind of explains House of Love and Death.

[@brendahankins7871]

Quite profound

[@Ooana]

Make Art Great Again

[@Hard_Boiled_Entertainment]

More than "a moral lecture," Drew: Conservatives want everything to be "real world." There's such reluctance to embrace the power of IMAGINATION that there's an inherent dismissal of genres that RELY on that: Fantasy...Superhero stories...sci-fi that's in the far future OR "a long time ago in a galaxy far far away"... These genres require the work of "world-building" BEYOND just the characters, because being set "in the real world" means you don't have to set up the rules of your story's universe--they de facto already exist. But if you have to craft a new universe for your story, and new rules with it...THAT requires imagination. Something beyond "the real world."

[@greyforge27]

Perelandra is one of the best novels I've ever read. Klavan is drunk, once again

[@billybenson3834]

It's the middle book of the trilogy, it isn't stand alone. It requires both Out of the Silient Planet and That Hideous Strength is absolutely the best of the three and showcases Lewis's brilliance

[@greyforge27]

@@billybenson3834 Have yet to read That Hideous Strength. What's so good about it?

[@jayjayjigsbys]

This is purely an aesthetic judgement, but the music from Frozen is so bad. Let it Go is so annoying and not at all interesting. Especially compared with Wicked which is undoubtedly great songwriting.

[@ajambos1218]

Gain of function for Sickle Cell?

[@mrsamtheman80]

The Wicked Witch enslaved the flying monkeys with her magic cap and used them to drop her enemies on jagged rocks in The Wizard of Oz…and we are supposed to believe she is actually a good character? The movie indicates the culture-power is all that matters, so if Glinda becomes powerful she is de facto evil, and those not in power de facto good. It is absurd.

[@bigdaddy2955]

Andrew is an interesting guy with often insightful things to say. Unfortunately, much of it is marred by his elitist mindset that causes him to talk down to his audience. By belittling conservatives as somehow benighted characters who just can not understand the nuances of the arts. A silly premise at best and a dangerous case of hubris at worst.

[@mrsamtheman80]

The 😊Wicked Witch enslaved the flying monkeys with her magic cap and used them to drop her enemies on jagged rocks in The Wizard of Oz…and we are supposed to believe she is actually a good character? The movie indicates the culture-power is all that matters, so if Glinda becomes powerful she is de facto evil, and those not in power de facto good. It is absurd.

[@ceceliam9014]

The main purpose of art is not to "delight", thats the purpose of entertainment and they are *different*. The purpose of art is to tell a story, make you think, maybe even make you uncomfortable with something about society or yourself. The messages in the Wicked movie are closer to godly and goodness than anything I saw in this video. The message of the movie is about reconsidering what you're *told* about who someone is, accepting differences instead of villainizing people because they aren't what we're used to seeing, and not to let powerful people silence and scapegoat the oppressed. If you dismiss messages like that I genuinely worry about the humans you are. The storytelling in this absolutely adored musical and movie spoke intensely to so many people its actually pretty absurd to suggest it was bad storytelling... Bad storytelling would not move this many people this deeply. Just because it doesn't speak to everyone doesn't mean its badly told.

[@saylorbay2000]

It spoke to many people because so many people are rebelling against God and replacing the Gospel of Jesus with the gospel of self worship.

[@ceceliam9014]

@saylorbay2000 This story is not promoting self worship. Condemning it because some authority figures tell you it's not "Godly" is not faith it's blind ignorant obedience. And your point is also moot, I'm sure there are many things that could be considered "ungodly" that do not move a large audience, being "against God" isn't reason enough for people to love a story, they love a story because it is well told and has emotional impact.

[@dukeofdenver]

The movie isn't saying that rebellion is good for it's own sake😂 It's pretty clear that it's because of the pogrom against the animals. You literally acknowledge that and that ignore it later to say its about rebellion for rebellion sake. Also, the reversal of protagonist/antagonist is a pretty common trope in retellings. Shrek, Maleficent etc. There's no crisis here. Relax

[@georgewagner7787]

Yeah the crisis is outside

[@philipb7400]

I agree but he might have an issue more so with how addicted Hollywood is to rebellion stories. Not just if they are justified or not.

[@dukeofdenver]

@philipb7400 Man vs. Society is a very common and long mythic tradition, as far as Moses. Or Lone Ranger vs. Robber Baron or Robin Hood v Sheriff of Nottingham. It is not inherently Leftist by any means. And it makes for pretty great stories.

[@RachelRichards]

You're kind of missing the point of his critique. He wasn't just saying it’s 'rebellion for rebellion’s sake'. he was questioning the morality of glorifying rebellion as a whole. Bringing up the "pogrom" against animals or comparing it to other tropes like 'Shrek' doesn’t really address his argument. Seems like a strawman.

[@dukeofdenver]

@RachelRichards Wasn't America founded by a rebellion? Why would that be bad in and of itself to Klavan. Listen to him again. He distinguishes between rebellion against Adam and God versus other kinds of rebellion.

[@michaelnorris6280]

Wicked is about criticizing authoritarian culture. Elphaba is a Messiah in a sense. It uses magic but not necessarily dark magic.

[@larsromine3781]

This guy is just mad they didn’t ask him to play Nosferatu

[@FromAcrossTheDesert]

Eve is the first feminist. Adam is the first simp.

[@artistjuliadocherty]

Lol ummm, no.

[@FromAcrossTheDesert]

@@artistjuliadocherty Yes. Eve listened to a talking snake instead of God. And Adam listened to his wife instead of God. Men and women need to listen to God. If Adam would have brought Eve to God after she had sinned and begged God to forgive her, they would have remained in paradise.

[@D.l33]

First like and comment 🗣️

[@v-town1980]

BFD.