The Bogdanoffs: The Trolls who shook Physics

What started as a forum post snowballed into a national news story. This is BOG.TXT. Part 2 out now: • The Twins who Terroriz...
RIP Grichka and Igor Bogdanoff
0:00 Chapter 1
4:16 Chapter 2
11:03 Chapter 3
18:03 Chapter 4
25:53 Chapter 5
I'm on sites! :
/ bobbybroccoli
/ bobbybroccole
All songs used are listed chronologically at the end of the video.
Namaste by Audionautix is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution 4.0 license. creativecommons.org/licenses/...
Artist: audionautix.com/
Bogdanoff affair

[@LynxSolstice]

They asked me if I had a degree in theoretical physics, I said I had a theoretical degree in physics, they said welcome aboard.

[@sultanofswingdrift3021]

LOL good one

[@Superplushbros3000]

haha i get that reference!

[@toadinthehole8085]

Great stuff.

[@st20332]

@@suprememasteroftheuniverse shut up you CCP bot, trying to destabilise Western societies through creating chain reaction arguments, and then leaving people with a sense of lingering stupidity and worry

[@Divinemakyr]

@@st20332 You seem to be one of the fear-ridden conspiracy theorist guys.

[@marsantos536]

"this email spread like wildfire in the academic community" i love how a love for gossip is a pillar of all human interactions

[@kalebb4]

humans are social creatures!

[@BG101UK]

@@kalebb4 *Most* humans are social creatures! ☺

[@kalebb4]

@@BG101UK What do you mean by that?

[@enzoqueijao]

@@kalebb4 Probably that most humans are social creatures.

[@kalebb4]

@@enzoqueijao They emphasized 'most', implying that a small group of people would not be. But even the most introverted, antisocial humans rely on people, because we are a social species. Humans are not born with sharp teeth and claws to ward off predators, so we rely on one another to survive. This is deeply rooted within everyone, because, in the past, isolation meant death. Isolation nowadays can lead to depression, anxiety, feelings of loneliness and even suicidality. And isolation is often a symptom of disorders and abnormalities- its simply not healthy to be alone. Of course, this doesn't mean that *everyone* loves to engage in gossip, or that *everyone* would not think critically about spreading a silly little email. But humans are social.

[@ethanomcbride]

10/10 would’ve read the nonsense papers and pretended to understand everything out of sheer imposter anxiety

[@AlexandLoki]

Then you would actually be an imposter though.

[@fernando4959]

@@AlexandLoki hence the anxiety

[@dylanoonk6456]

i have pretty bad imposter syndrome (i’m a computer scientist) and i’ve certainly pretended to understand papers and whatnot that i didn’t but those brothers’ paper was like if someone whose only ever used a mobile phone was trying to explain the intricacies of low level hardware having only heard about it from pop culture.

[@TheDeltaboss]

That's exactly what bad science banks on

[@itsgonnabeanaurfromme]

​@@dylanoonk6456it's not impostor syndrome because you actually don't understand and pretend you do. Quite the opposite

[@SlashCampable]

The twins dying a week apart is the final cherry on top of this weird story. Truly a pair for the history books. Not because of their significance, but just for how notably strange they were.

[@orangejello3263]

People who are closed for most of their lives tend to die together, it's a whole thing. Most married couples die within the few years of each other no matter the age.

[@WingMaster562]

​@@orangejello3263my grandma died less tham a week after my grandpa dief

[@micahslash]

They didn't die; they transcended.

[@kellenbigman]

They seem like aliens that were stupid where they came from and decided they'd come here and be hailed as geniuses when in a twist turned out to be equally dumb here too...

[@whyplaypiano2844]

@@orangejello3263 My great grandpa has somehow managed to live 11 years without my great grandma. He's 88.

[@somecallmetim4490]

“The author should correct several typos in the paper. As an examle…” well done.

[@Daniel-jk6ve]

Yikes, I missed that twice!

[@LuizAlexPhoenix]

That is the biggest issue with trying to correct someone, you can just as easily fuck up like them and it looks petty to be criticizing someone for a common mistake.

[@Huntracony]

@@LuizAlexPhoenix Not in this context. Papers have much higher writing standards than an editorial note. It makes sense to spend some amount of effort correcting typos in papers, not so much in notes that'll only be read a handful of times. I wouldn't call it a criticism either, or at least not petty; the goal is not to make the author look bad, it's to have the typos corrected to make the paper better.

[@mrshadowduh9394]

Isn't the "As an examle..." written here literally an example of a typo made in the paper? It's followed up by a comma followed by an "and" which would also make no sense until you realise that they are showing that the Bog Twins mixed French with English in their paper and wrote "and la". The people correcting them made no typo themselves.

[@somecallmetim4490]

@@mrshadowduh9394 it was a year ago, so I don’t remember it exactly. But I do remember it and would have made sure it wasn’t an example through context before laughing at them for it.

[@musikSkool]

This isn't a physics failure, it is a publication failure. It only becomes a physics failure if people start citing them as credit for some of their new physics discoveries.

[@Aster_Risk]

Just like the Soakal hoax.

[@shreycod4]

I disagree, because it shows that no one even knows what other people in their field are talking about. Modern day academia is so fragmented and scattered that it is a bunch of smart people working in parallel with no overlap, towards a non-existent goal. 99% of this research is completely useless and only understood by, at most, a dozen other people globally. A quick look on arxiv at most of these dissertations and papers shows that most of them are just grasping at some niche that no one has yet explored, but can fill an entire paper's worth of gibberish. Shortly put, it is a huge circlejerk.

[@musikSkool]

@@shreycod4 Well, real research is done in secret by very rich companies. Very little of what gets published is out in the open for us to read, most of it goes into some wealthy corporation's safe and saved for later use by just their own engineers to try to squeeze a few more bucks out of their product. I hate to admit it, but all new science is now a rich man's game.

[@KittSpiken]

It certainly isn't a failure, it's another ignored alarm on the sinking ship of peer review. It's been a joke for decades and hardly anyone seems to care.

[@chrisfuller1268]

It's not a failure, as the poor quality/fraud was eventually discovered. If they had chosen earth sciences or biological sciences, their fraud would never have been discovered due to data rights.

[@teeks8713]

Seeing the result of that plastic surgery just makes me sad. I’m glad you covered that the way you did, acknowledging it without making fun of it. Body dysmorphia is a horrible thing

[@elliottdresser9734]

I saw a picture of them prior to this video, and somehow managed to recognize them at the very beginning. It’s very sad though.

[@mq5731]

@@elliottdresser9734 I think they look kinda cool....

[@technoturnovers7072]

@@mq5731 see, the thing is, they took the features that made them attractive in the first place and had them exaggerated to the point that they were no longer attractive. Like, you have full lips and a well-defined chin; what happens if you exaggerate that chin until you look like a cheesy comic book character, and inflate your lips to be twice the size? doesn't turn out so well, it seems

[@mq5731]

@@technoturnovers7072 At least they stand out in a crowd. Which for people like them, I think thats what they wanted anyway...

[@Abigart69]

@@technoturnovers7072 yeah its easy for the mentally healthy to think logically

[@nyanbinary1717]

As someone with an advanced degree in cultural studies, I can confirm that Sokal's troll paper would have fit right in to a journal like that. He even wrote an absolute meme of a title. I love it.

[@tacticalpossum7090]

Could very easily happen in sociology and has been done before... and Im a sociologist!

[@erikeriks]

You should dye your hair in that blueish rainbow color again, it compliments your glasses.

[@nyanbinary1717]

@@erikeriks …what?

[@Jane-oz7pp]

@@nyanbinary1717 I think they're making a really sad reference to the whole "blue haired feminists in sociology" meme.

[@erikeriks]

@@Jane-oz7pp no I found her socials and know what she looks like

[@Test-ru5xm]

“He bought???, dump it!”

[@thathandsomedevil0828]

LOL, I was wondering what they have to do with currency trading. :D

[@middle-agedclimber]

Not zis time, Bog!

[@Gh0stPr0ducti0n]

@@middle-agedclimber dümp üt XD

[@bakkudeku]

Rhee pänýck sohld? PÔMP EÏT AGHÉN!

[@Rek-55]

))

[@igorbogdanoff5982]

Activate Quantum Immortality.

[@middle-agedclimber]

What is ze next styep of your mastyerplan?

[@angrycinnabon2956]

@@middle-agedclimber Crashing this market... *With no survivors.*

[@misterb.s.8745]

Just in time.. Farewell Grichka, see you in the quantum dump realm

[@wizardofoz9803]

@@misterb.s.8745 bruh, I learned it from you. F 4 Gricka, may he crash the markets with no survivors from Heaven

[@bornanagaming3329]

Sacrifice Brother for Immortality

[@Tictacpanter]

The Sokal paper is used in my university intro to writing papers as a demonstration of how an article can meet all the formatting and structural requirements for a publication- and mean nothing at all. It’s used as a bit of a warning to not be too wordy and have a real argument.

[@thej3799]

Lol. Talk to me about words failing to address what they say screams from the top of a mountain "yo, im tone argument projecting I agree with this person but had to nuke something instead of restraint", k. Thx btw. while I can harness word strength, you show your hand a bluff and now folding in a spectacular bounce mate 🫶

[@Tictacpanter]

@@thej3799 hey there! I don’t quite catch your drift here.

[@krodmandoon3479]

​@@thej3799I can't believe you actually got someone

[@jht3fougifh393]

​@@krodmandoon3479 In their defense, this is a KZbin comment section, not an academic paper.

[@inkkilpatrick6220]

i absolutely love the way you handled the topic of their plastic surgeries. Simultaneously treating someone's decisions about their body with the seriousness and respect expected of a biopic like this, and dismissing the issue of their bodies and choices about it as irrelevant to the story. I dont think it could have conceivably be handled any better, seriously respect that.

[@whoareyoulookingfor]

i scrolled down immediately after watching that part to leave a comment like this. my kudos as well

[@chase6428]

Bruh looks like he got swarmed by wasps

[@littlechickeyhudak]

yeah that was a chad move

[@belle8732]

definitely a W and chad move. was seriously really surprised and pleased with the way it was handled

[@placeholderdoe]

It’s really refreshing to see because even actual plastic surgeons on KZbin and TikTok handle these things horribly, guessing if celebrities had plastic surgery, recommending plastic surgery, other horrible things

[@jesserjzz1]

7:07 - "They exist as a pair, a unit that does not make sense unless treated as a whole." - And they died from COVID 19, Grichka first and 6 days later his brother Igor. R.I.P... 😣 😖 😫 😩 🥺 😢 😭

[@eltioputo]

@@couchcamperTM I mean... It says so on their Wikipedia page so...

[@FlyManChimera]

Good riddance

[@Bassmasterwitacaster]

They didn't actually die. This is fake news

[@jesserjzz1]

@@Bassmasterwitacaster Yes I know. Theyr conscience was uploaded and they will live forever in the BLOCKCHAIN.

[@OrlandoMGarcia]

they died because they didn’t vaccinate against covid

[@jenniferkeates]

Alan Sokal was a TA for one of my computer science courses in UCL in 2010 (don't quite remember which course it was, it was either Hardware II or Theory II). We didn't really knew he was at first, just that he was an excellent teacher, much better than our original course lecturer. He always explained concepts with alot of humour and boiled things down enough that undergrads could understand. I was so impressed by his teaching that I looked him up and discovered that he had a wiki article; after that, we asked him to tell us about the Sokal Affair in one class and he gladly sat us down and talked about academic honesty. In the end, we as a class literally begged him to teach the course instead of our original lecturer but alas, he said it's not something he can do. A huge shame. BTW, anyone who is thinking of studying at UCL: this is a common story in the entire university. Great connections to great professors, but absolutely terrible teaching faculty.

[@drmodestoesq]

Ahhh...That's why we need more of these people to conduct online recorded courses. But, I understand that's no substitute for being in the classroom and asking questions.

[@wedaringu667]

@@drmodestoesq Nobody asks questions and when they do they are snickered at. It quickly becomes embraced as laziness because admitting to being terrified of showing one's ignorance is far more difficult. The cowardice is suffocating.

[@ijemand5672]

know*

[@sdaiwepm]

Same at most research universities in the US, e.g. UC Berkeley for sure.

[@usernotfound904]

Did he have the over-the-top facial surgery yet when he was your TA?

[@sammymaxwell3931]

Hey, I know this is such a minor correction and doesn't affect the story at all, but I have to correct, Roland Hayes was a classical singer, not a jazz musician. It explains why Bertha would've been more drawn to him as he often sang songs in French, German, and Italian, and would go on tours in Germany and Austria. Jazz wasn't very popular among white audiences at the time and definitely hadn't made it's way over to Europe at the time so she probably wouldn't have been attracted to a jazz musician. Again, small correction in an otherwise well researched video!

[@matttzzz2]

"Well ackshwalley" 🤓

[@user-co8lm5xj5y]

​@@matttzzz2shaddup

[@delphinidin]

"What's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander" actually means that everybody gets paid back the same way. Sokal, a physicist, had made sociology look silly by publishing a bad sociology paper, and now physics looked silly because the Bogdanoffs had published a bad physics paper. It's like saying, "What goes around comes around."

[@thesleepydot]

thanks for the correction!

[@jamesflames6987]

The problem is that being granted a PhD or being published in a journal doesn't mean anyone "agrees" with what you wrote or thinks it is correct, just that it meets basic standards for publication. If reviewers had to judge if a theory was actually "right" it would be impossible to have any debate in science.

[@trapd00rspider]

@@mattcrosby2310 as someone said in the video, the real peer review begins once it's published.

[@KingFluffs]

Same with "peer review". It means sweet fuck all but a confirmation bias, and most peer reviewed things that are taken as fact cannot be replicated so are untrue.

[@FTZPLTC]

Yeah, it comes up in Broc's videos on Jan Schön, I think - a PhD is supposed to be indicative of an understanding of the scientific process, with the implication that you can be trusted when talking about those subjects. It doesn't mean that you'll be right - it just means that you won't be wrong through incompetence alone. tbh the big fuck-up here was the university delegating responsibility for whether someone got a PhD to any random unaccountable publishers they could win over, rather than just making the call themselves. As Broc said, if they'd just passed him with the shittiest possible grade, nothing would likely have come of it.

[@mrporcupine4140]

The amount of times my teachers have had articles rejected because the reviewers thought the physics were wrong or some mistake had been made in the math is infuriating, and says otherwise.

[@TheDavidlloydjones]

No, James. that's not correct. Plausibility is one of the "basic standards for publication" that you correctly refer to. Incorrectness necessarily makes a paper unpublishable.

[@zamor_da]

You are really inspiring me to write a hoax paper.

[@Ryan-xq3kl]

Dump it

[@JakeKlineMusic]

Make writing hoax papers become a meme and a pastime 😎

[@papalegba6759]

most physics after 1900 is a hoax.

[@LauraBeeDannon]

Like those dudes that changed Mein Kapf to feminist jargon and got it published?😆

[@JakeKlineMusic]

@@LauraBeeDannon HAA! I forgot about that one 😂 Avi, and Grace: you have some great channel subscriptions 😉

[@Kevin-cy2dr]

Man the drama in the physics community sounds much more interesting than the TV ones.

[@drewfeld8483]

Drama is boring. It's too common and mundane, like most humans.

[@elvingearmasterirma7241]

Oh you have no idea. You should check out the drama in the "body language" area. Oh thats fun

[@elvingearmasterirma7241]

​@@drewfeld8483 and yet. Here you are

[@em84c]

i love watching videos about drama in niche communities im not apart of. Ive been watching videos about knitting community dramas lately 😆 im so interested to know the physics and body language community dramas

[@Septa7Seven]

​@em84c same, I watched a long doc about yarn drama from the 2000s.

[@stevemrayz357]

The funny yet sad thing is that in the same 10 years, they could have gained their Bachelor's, Master's then PhDs legitimately

[@matttzzz2]

That would involve studying, attending classes, assignments, etc. They just wanted to fuck around and get free PhDs

[@HerbeyStudies]

@@matttzzz2bingo. They wanted the glitz and glamour and the prestige of a phd, without the effort

[@VasiliyOgniov]

Funnily enough, "Богданов" means "Given by a God" in Russian, where "Бог" = "God". They have a Russian roots after all. So I find it quite funny that title means literally "God.txt"

[@djolivierastro]

Just like the best French standup comedian Mbala Mbala Dieudonné

[@claida339]

I'm sorry but I cannot get over the fact that the Russian word for God is the British word for toilets while the English word for God sounds exactly like the French word for dildo (which is gode). That's both accidentally disrespectful and frankly hilarious to me. Anyway, thank you for the info, I'm starting to learn Russian and that's a word I'll remember!

[@Chronic.Pivoter]

@@claida339, this can vary with dialect, but, uninflected, the Russian word sounds like [bo:x] (or "boh" if you can't read phonetic notation), so it doesn't sound the same as "bog". P.S. But yeah, in "Bogdanov" it comes before a voiced consonant, so there it does sound like "bog".

[@claida339]

@@Chronic.Pivoter Ok, thanks a lot for this info! The book and audio app I have said that the little angle letter is pronounced "g" but I didn't know about this subtlety. I does make sense though. That was nice of you to take the time to explain it :)

[@ShamelessDuck]

@@claida339 and the English "God" is Russian "year", "год"

[@patriciaAmurray]

I enjoyed this video! I had seen other videos on the Bogdanoff twins but didn’t know that they were the grandsons of Roland Hayes. Mr Hayes was not a jazz musician; rather, he was one of the first African-American vocalists to tour Europe. He had a rich tenor voice and sang German lieder, other classical forms, and also Negro Spirituals. My grandfather was a good friend of his and his first accompanist.

[@aj_aurelius5763]

Thank you

[@orangeants]

That's incredibly cool, it must've been wild to realize you had a connection to the matter

[@antonioberandas9610]

I don't know if it was unusual back then, but nowadays it's pretty standard to obain a PhD by publishing papers in journals. It's called "cumulative dissertation" and a lot of PhDs are obtained that way. You publish ~three papers as first author, write a few pages connecting those papers, defend it, and you may be awarded your PhD.

[@spaceisntgreen3578]

phd speedrun when

[@MSandPD]

yeah, pretty much exactly how PhDs in physics and astronomy are done in the US, as far as I'm aware. Staple together 3 first author papers as your thesis and graduate with your PhD. I was surprised by how much he emphasized in the video that that's not standard.

[@QuantumR4ge]

Phd By publication is not common in the field of physics in the modern day for the most part. Other fields its much more common.

[@qewqeqeqwew3977]

Einstein wrote a cummulative dissertation.

[@no.one.two.]

As a PhD candidate in chemistry, even the ones that don't want to graduate through cumulative dissertation but instead though a monography have to have a few published/accepted papers as first author

[@BenHawkinsvids]

There's something almost beautiful about them being handed an out, saying damn you guys got us really good solid prank and them just doubling down on it being real

[@JohnSmith-zv8km]

Surgeons who are willing to do what was done to them should be subject to legal sanctions.

[@jakubmalisz5741]

It's all natural. They're are the next step in human evolution.

[@Oscar97o]

I think they were suffering from saturnism because at some point they injected lead into their bloodstream to become immortal. Which, spoilers, didn't work.

[@leonieromanes7265]

@@jakubmalisz5741 a shame they're now extinct.

[@liloufoxx]

@@nvwssv8883 What?

[@istyleonu]

Why would you want that? That only protects insecure morons from making dumb choices that only effect themselves. What you are suggesting goes against the foundation of freedom. If some idiot wants to do something idiotic to THEMSELVES then they should have that freedom.

[@ThisGuyAd.]

When I was 15 I went to Paris with some friends. We spent a night walking down the seine to meet people. We ending up hanging out with Igor and his friends. He was a super nice guy. RIP to both of them 🙏

[@joshualioi5144]

More stories more stories

[@joshualioi5144]

Moarrrr

[@agoniaXdunya]

@@joshualioi5144 he sukkd him up

[@mihaelmiles7184]

You have selfie with them?

[@zaxmaxlax]

@@agoniaXdunya LMAO

[@DenkouNova]

That ending always gives me shivers. I speak French and I hadn't realized at first that the point is people have to translate the ominous calls using the closed captions to get the info that there's a part 2 coming. It's so good

[@ityabean]

The beat drop right at the end when revealing this was a 2-parter is CHOICE. Also, god do I love these documentaries. They're such interesting looks into aspects of academia and the scientific field at certain points of history. I've rewatched this and the Jan Hendrik series a few times.

[@BobbyBroccoli]

Thanks haha, I do love the music choice. Although what I've learned is that if you convince people it isn't a 2 parter, and act like credits are rolling, they leave and then never go watch part 2. Tried to make it clear in the future that there were future parts left.

[@thesleepydot]

​@@BobbyBroccoli oh noo that's unfortunate, but I gotta say, for the people who stayed, it really enhanced the experience. Such a twist! I kinda wish more people would pull a surpise second parter, because it's really a way of saying "oh, you thought we were done? Buddy, we're just getting started!" so at the very least i think you win some yoiu lose some :))

[@StrangerOman]

Came for the memes, stayed for good editing, good choice of music and interesting story.

[@richardbottom9843]

@@suprememasteroftheuniverse cringe

[@koki-dm9rv]

the editing doesn’t fit the subject at all and the camera makes me nauseous wtf are you talking about

[@StrangerOman]

@@koki-dm9rv Are you watching from PC or Phone? Could be our difference.

[@autodidacticartisan]

Yeah the production quality of this video is striking

[@Vasily_dont_be_silly]

50% of the video is pointless 3D graphics and 10-second silent shots with only music and zero text all over. That's nowhere near good editing

[@SJDvalientes]

I am all in for more deep dives into academic fraud; they make such good stories Thank you for making them engaging and accessible!

[@amusedobserver6134]

Look into string theory.

[@BattousaiHBr]

little did you know that after posting your comment this is exactly what he set out to do.

[@Dong_Harvey]

"Sauce" normally means source in meme parlance. However, a common phrase is also 'do you have the goods?', which also can be transitioned to the concept of the 'goods' being the 'source of delight' or subsequently 'the sauce'. Sokal was a 4chan shitposter when m00t was still posting shit in his diapers

[@ianm1462]

Yeah the more I find out about Sokal the more I see how he was 20 years ahead of his time. And a BotW avatar at 70? How cool is this man

[@Nokolhege]

The goods are the beans

[@LuizAlexPhoenix]

Pass me da saucy for ze m3m3z.

[@jonasghafur4940]

not partaking in making the mental struggles of someone who is, in the end, one of our peers a punchline is a genuinely kind move. Yet, this honestly just feels like a side not to what is one of the best videos I’ve watched on KZbin. Good job!

[@TheEulerID]

"but considering his existing fame and music career, the question remained; why bother now" asked nobody of Brian May when he went back to finish his PhD at Imperial College 33 years after he abandoned his studies to concentrate on a little band now know as Queen (by coincidence when I was in my first year studying physics at the place). He got his PhD in 2007, aged 60...

[@worldcomicsreview354]

Asking him "why bother now" was YOUR job, we all agreed!

[@RadikAlice]

Him, Milo Ackerman and a bunch of other musicians

[@Metalstorm666]

As a French scientist working in academia I can totally confirm all this is is true. And the institution didn’t do anything to correct this misbehavior from a minor university. Those B brothers are still PhDs from the French university despite their lack of scientific knowledge. And this is is precisely why France, a former leading nation, is drowning. I’m so sad.

[@heldhostageplshelp]

They bought the dip.

[@truartist5379]

Writing like this should make you sick.

[@igorbogdanoff5982]

Bounjour Mr. Boulle, we got a new plan for you.

[@vapeurdepisse]

I'm French too. That's definitely not the reason for the demise of French research... The reason is that funding had historically been coming from public sources, and this is drying up because the state finances are overburdened by the cost of our social net. Also there is systemic resistance in France about private money. The whole system is rigged against private investors due to socialist thinking. Engineers and scientists (like me) are leaving the country to join the private sector elsewhere, where the jobs are plentiful and the pay is higher. A lot of those who stay in French academia are coasting leeches that value their free time more than work. They are also afraid of living outside of France because they can't deal with paying for their own health insurance and retirement. To say that these buffoons have anything to do with the real problem is ridiculous.

[@lightoo361]

Bon courage pour soutenir un doctorat à l'Ecole Polytechnique ..... je trouve leur raisonnement beaucoup plus cohérent que des théories aussi farfeuleus que la théorie des cordes (avec ces dizaines de dimensions hahahahaha) ou encore la gravitation quantique à boucle le concept de l'information qu'ils developpent est quand à lui très intéressant pour expliquer l'avant mur de planck !

[@allisonbrown1865]

not only is this really well researched, i feel like you also figured out how to communicate message board drama visually in a way that i’ve never seen before that’s really effective. amazing stuff

[@tapewormer2043]

It seems to me that for the faculty it was a problem along the lines of "how to get rid of PhD students who thanks to having money and free time won't quit even though their research isn't going anywhere". So if I understood well they granted one the minimum distinction at some drastic conditions (changing field) an the other they condition his right to reattempt the thesis to (supposedly) even more drastic conditions ; getting several publications. People managing to obtain undeserved degrees or undue praise has and always will be a thing and I can't imagine a perfect system that could completely prevent that from happening. On the other hand it think there is much to say about the publication world. When I was doing research it was my personal opinion that the academic publication system was in many ways defective by design and that it should completely be rethought. But I have left the academic fiel for a while so I don't know what's the situation about this issue at the present.

[@CarTM]

Damn, feels bad bro

[@ekki1993]

Yeah, it's the centuries-old problem of having money as a main driver in a fundamentally creative medium. People with money can pressure their way into PhDs, journals are pressured into accepting some kinds of publications (with results and "high impact") and there's always some bottom-feeder journal willing to publish anything for money.

[@motunrayomomodu8528]

Exactly 😊

[@brogansmith1342]

Dude, brilliant job, especially at the end. It's been a minute since someone actually got me with a fakeout ending like that. Amazing work.

[@ivy_47]

@Boxcarcifer So true!

[@6-1-6]

@Boxcarcifer Preach

[@6-1-6]

@Boxcarcifer Preach

[@BobbyBroccoli]

so true bestie!

[@6-1-6]

@@BobbyBroccoli He sees a world we cannot understand

[@AFExploration]

i've visited their family chateau in Saint Lary, sadly it was in really poor condition with numerous holes in the roof and the brothers refused to spend money on it, but by the end they were pretty broke and chancing their way through life, not like that matters anymore, RIP Bogdanoff Freres

[@oscardighton8580]

if they just stuck to tv they would have been fine

[@dkeith45]

@John S Which really says something about their intelligence. They spent big bucks tweaking their faces through surgery, but didn't care about having a sound roof over their home.

[@michaelbarbarich3965]

@@dkeith45 "says something about their intelligence" They became internationally notorious, and lived lives that the vast majority of people couldn't hope to replicate if they were given a hundred lifetimes. Who needs an accepted, peer reviewed paper when you leave a trail of famous french actresses and literal princesses behind you? Who needs a watertight roof when people across continents mourn your loss and will remember your name decades after your gone? I'm sure you're a very bright guy, and your home is in order, but.... Who are you, again?

[@dkeith45]

@@michaelbarbarich3965 It's true, they are famous and their names and lives will be known for a very long time. I'm a nobody. And I don't GAF, lol. We all come to nothing eventually. Since there is no afterlife, it all comes to nothing eventually. When the time comes that our sun goes supernova, we and all of our history and all of our works will be wiped out forever and no one will notice our passing or will miss us. That is the cold hard reality.

[@tulinfirenze1990]

@@dkeith45 Uuuuummmmm .........not here in Australia - I LITERALLY only heard about them yesterday when a FB post came up about these twin freaks who both died from covid. At first I couldn't believe what I was looking at - they are absolute MONSTERS and they will only be a BLIP in international news and then only for their hideous appearances.

[@hallosx2]

this is such an insanely well-produced video, i was curious about this whole event and you covered it excellently. RIP igor and grichka bogdanoff

[@bazem]

I'm always impressed with the storytelling and visual presentation in this channel. Congrats!

[@Incramus]

This is absolutely incredible. Seeing you develop as an artist is an amazing thing to witness. My friends and I are all physics majors and we're obsessed with your videos. We're all going to different grad schools and are going to inevitably to drift apart, but whenever you upload, we're bound to be reunited for that magical half hour. Keep it up!!!

[@BobbyBroccoli]

This is so wholesome wtf

[@DuskLegend]

“Inevitably” Well, why?

[@Richex112]

@@DuskLegend death

[@DuskLegend]

@@Richex112 damn, i don’t even think he was getting at that

[@Richex112]

@@DuskLegend no i asked

[@davidprice7162]

They both just recently died of COVID, aged 72. One in December 21, 2021, the other, January 3rd, 2022.

[@yunleung2631]

Activate quantum immortality

[@AbuHajarAlBugatti]

See you again, space cowboys

[@TheLancerGreen]

I just found your channel this week, both this and the Schon documentary are EXCEPTIONAL work and I'm glad to see dedicated research and clear analysis in an engaging format. I'm going to leave this comment on all 3 of the videos because I want to drive as much engagement for you as possible. Spectacular work and I hope to see more from you!

[@pomgren63]

These documentaries are so well made and informative. Truly great quality work, really brilliantly put together- I hope there will be many more of these... this is the kind of content that makes the internet a wonderful place. Sincerely, thank you for putting these together and sharing them- you take these subjects I would probably have no hope of wrapping my mind around and make them accessible, engaging, and stunningly well assembled in video form. It's truly an art, and I appreciate the amount of work and research you put into this- you do it unbelievably well!

[@theaeecs8004]

Holy shit, I just came across your channel from the Schön scandal and this is absolutely hilarious as an electrical engineer attempting to go into research. I am currently focusing on photonics and metamaterials (mainly trying to go into research, and I'm finishing my B.S. this year and should be able to finish my M.S. next year), and it seems we might have similar interests. Keep up the amazing content!

[@samuelbarham8483]

The internet was not sci-fi in the 1980's -- in fact, in France it was the era of Minitel, which was an Internet service available in France, and operated by the French government's PTT. It predated the World Wide Web by about a decade -- founded as it was in 1982.

[@DavidCurryFilms]

Minitel blows my mind. Apparently folks were still using it when it was decommissioned in 2009 🤔

[@samuelbarham8483]

@@DavidCurryFilms I know, right? I was shocked when I found that out, too -- something like 10 million log ins per month still!

[@takix2007]

@@DavidCurryFilms 2012 ! It was decommissioned on June, 30th, 2012!

[@claida339]

@@DavidCurryFilms (and I still miss it)

[@RealtimeSeb]

3615 was cool

[@LillyDaughterOfAthena]

bro, you are smashing these videos out of the park. Absolutely stunning presentation!

[@berlineczka]

Honestly, the Sokal prank - whatever Sokal actually says about it - has proven him wrong. He tried to publish his nonsensical paper in several more reputable social and cultural journals, and non took the bate and rejected his paper. He only managed to get it published in a tiny, not well known and not widely respected journal that hardly anybody knew (I am a sociologist, employed at a university - and I NEVER even heard of this journal before the Sokal affair). He published a weak paper in a weak journal and claimed it a success and a reason social sciences/humanities are not real sciences. In truth, he did shitty humanities, and only managed to get in published in a shitty journal. That's a win for the humanities in my book.

[@fess3932]

I am sure this claim is not biased in anyway at all.

[@berlineczka]

@@fess3932 His, or mine?

[@jamiemurray6536]

In fairness, Sokal has always been pretty moderate on the limits of his claims. It was journalists, especially those on the right, that spun it as some huge critique of the humanities. For an in depth video on Sokal, I would recommend CCK philosophy’s video “Did the Sokal affair ‘destroy postmodernism’?”, which is briefly referenced in this video

[@berlineczka]

@@max7971 I am not even a humanities researcher, so it's not really "we". Humanities do not "rule", all sciences are legitimate and deserve respect, grants, and a right to exist and research in peace. As for replication studies: the replication crisis is a problem of all fields of science (maybe except medicine, where replication is built in the process, and is the worst in psychology, arguably). Novelty chase is the cancer of the 'publish or perish' culture that dominate the academia nowadays. A solid paper of nothing new will not get you published, so it is not being done.

[@jaxkal9596]

@@berlineczka humanities Is not science, would be studying french be considered science? I don't think so, go back to study latin and looking through Plato's ass, or interpreting dreams but that's not science its just your own hobby

[@henry-ch3hq]

This is brilliant stuff. Your production quality is insanely high and the stories are incredibly engaging. Keep on rocking on.

[@edringo9442]

I'm a professor at a major university. None of this is surprising . A large number of people with PhDs have no understanding of their areas of so-called expertise. The past nobility that a PhD may have required is gone. Fraud, non-innovation, and ego are far more the norm than the opposite.

[@zarathustra498]

Not to mention that the thesis are rarely read seriously. I remember my defence: out of 6 comitee members I had, 2 actually read it, 1 skimmed through while the rest you could tell thet had no idea what was the topic

[@Jdrunnin]

It is rather sad, it has become some accessory people can use to look smart

[@worldcomicsreview354]

So now a PHD is more like feudal "nobility"? An unearned position of some privelege based more on who you know than what you know?

[@Aim54Delta]

@@worldcomicsreview354 Somewhat. I can empathize with this story a bit on multiple levels. I will say that I consistently score high in aptitude and intelligence tests and was brought up through gifted education programs in school. Either I was an experiment for what happens when a dumb person is told they are smart, or I am generally rather intelligent. I have a natural affinity to look at something, pick it apart, put it back together, and apply its principles to new problems and solutions. One would think I went on to a university, somewhere, received the highest accolades, and went to work for the best companies solving the tough engineering or research challenges. And one would be wrong. Several factors combined. First - information is easier to acquire via the internet. As a sponge for information and engagement in discussion, the internet is a far more indulgent (I use that word for a reason) means of exposure to information to consume and process. Why would I go into debt to sit through classes that string me along for months on what takes me a week of wiki-walking and backing it up with browsing primary research sources or discussions in a forum? There is a discipline factor - my math suffers because I lack discipline in it, unless directly pursuing a solution. I can learn and do the math, I just see it as a means to an end - a way of removing the guesswork from an intuitive grasp of the mechanics. And it also means that I can be very whimsical - if the information is not sticking, I do not labor away to try and make it stick. I back off and ponder it for weeks, months, or even years before returning to the subject prepared to jam information into the voids I have come to realize exist. It also means I do not come prepared with the typical ... Lingo ... Of a field. For example, if I enter into a discussion about the biochemistry in immunology, I will likely have people throw notable experiments or 'principles' at me which are not evident in a raw exploration of the mechanics. I will occasionally attach concepts to each other a bit haphazardly and while I still think they make a point, there is a valid criticism in my use. That said... I think my course is becoming the more normal one for those of higher intelligence. Unless one has the means to pursue a degree, the smart thing to do is to simply not go into debt for one. Even in countries where student debt is not an issue, the internet is full of awe and wonder for people who hunger for knowledge and problem solving opportunities. Universities are very slow, rigid, and boring. There is no less genius or ambition in the world - just look at some of the insane innovations in minecraft, factorio, or efforts to render Bad Apple, which should be classified as an SCP at this point. The thing is that universities no longer have the monopoly on higher education and the benefit of what they do offer is in conflict with the interests of people. I can go kick boxes in the back of a store without a master's degree. And you would be surprised how many people went through a lot of work to get a degree, which they never end up being able to utilize. My experiences in the working world generally show why. The world is run, currently, by politics and favors, not by actual results or any clear ambition. We would be better served by a demon with ambitions to colonize the solar system than by the types who pretend to wear the purest of virtuous robes. At least the demon would have a compulsory need to recognize a productive ends. Even a demon could be shown the math and the evidence which proves the inefficiency of tyranny and compel a respect for compassion, or at least the human need to have room for it. People who have already consigned themselves to the belief such principles are a virtue society must endure.... Well, you can't fix stupid. There is a growing caste system which consists of completely political lifestyles, independent from any productive reality, who believe they are properly guided. This has permeated many aspects of society - people who come to own businesses become deluded into believing they have acquired all relevant knowledge of the business. Managers who believe the only thing they need to do is hire the right people, but then want to over-ride those people in critical decisions. I have been in discussions with fields in industry where the main focus of many people is not to show off what they know, but to expose what the others around them do not know. In highly competitive social environments, it is harder to stand out. You can't easily prove yourself as smarter than others, especially if you aren't - but you can point out gaps in someone's understanding, or rejection of convention. The CEO may not know much about computer networking, but the guy confidently exposing the faults of others about their knowledge of networking probably knows his stuff. Even if someone is generally right, finding that way of trying to assert they still don't know enough is a way of securing position. Likewise, I have engaged in a number of discussions on various subjects where my own honest effort to present data and research has been met with accusations of word salad and the like. It is a general defense I have seen thrown up when someone does not want to engage in discussion. When I remove big words and go with little words and basic concepts, I get mocked for "not knowing" it as the complete jargon. We have reached a point where most of the intelligent and creative people in society have little political power to access the means by which to innovate, and as such are pursuing alternate means, despairing, or just disengaging, entirely. The ones who are going to universities are those who are following through on a political ambition, even if they don't fully realize it. A lot of people there just to chase a job, and when all that matters is getting the job, the honesty and integrity of the research goes out the window. More foolishness and evil has been done in the interest of 'just doing my job' than, perhaps, any other mentality held by humans.

[@saddlepiggy]

@@Aim54Delta mans just wrote the Alan sokal paper of KZbin comments

[@mathiew_]

Man, you can tell the animation has improved since this was released, and the overall quality has probably gone up, but the content itself is just as good. Can't believe how underappreciated you've been until the Ninovium video!

[@theferociousblue3945]

Your channel has such fascinating content and such high quality production, truly one of the algorithm's best finds. I'll keep it in mind to pass the recommendation to anyone I know who might be interested in the topics you cover. You deserve way more subscribers.

[@Ai-immo]

I've heard several times about this story in the french media, but never in such a detailed manner. Great work! Actually Luc Ferry, former Education Minister and personal friend of the B brothers was on TV just a few days ago expressing his condolences and taking the opportunity to defend their scientific work... The B brothers were often on TV, talking what seemed to me like pseudo scientific BS that I guess could impress the average Joe (that's consistent with they way they seemed to have approached their PHDs). This being said they were quite bright and they were pretty good showmen. But I just don't think they were real scientists... They are also other disturbing stories involving scams and document falsifications that you might want to consider to understand better who they were...

[@hiho9149]

Amazing work. I had no idea the details behind this meme of a human duo were this interesting. Great choice with the subject you talked about in the first 3 minutes, it got me hooked on the rest of the video which I may have otherwise skipped considering the length. You gained my sub, keep up the good work.

[@mehmehmeh360]

4:50 "here's a quick rundown" Damn you I got the reference! You sly bastard!

[@graemelaubach3106]

Man you are making some seriously amazing content. Thank you for your service and I hope you blow up so you can keep bringing us gold.

[@eigennat]

Lol “the dumbest boys alive.” There are a lot of people on this website inspired by Jon Bois, but I think you have got to be my favorite.

[@KingOfComedyXD]

fantastic and entertaining video. one of the best I've ever seen. RIP

[@Aelinbunn]

This is incredibly detailed and super fun to watch!! Thank you so much and huge props to both your storytelling, research, and editing!

[@Aelinbunn]

Feel like 'both' is an incorrect word choice here, but changing it would change the flow of the sentence and I'm not sure how I'd like to make the change.

[@oganvildevil]

Omg idk how many times I've seen this and only just realized Bobby gave us "a quick rundown" in episode one Nicely done monsieur broccoli

[@Tracequaza]

just wanted to say i really love your editing style. it's stylish but at the same time visually coherent, which i find a lot of channels i watch can't strike a balance between the two. your storytelling is also very well done, and i can tell you put a lot of research into this. best of luck with your channel, and great job on this video!

[@SenisPucker]

You're probably aware of this by now, but check out the 'Pretty Good' series by Jon Bois here on KZbin. The editing style of those videos inspired these ones, and they're also about interesting historical events and trivia surrounding semi-obscure fields. If you liked this, you'll love those.

[@akrasia6693]

Such an underrated channel. Keep up the great work!

[@HellDevRisen]

I love your editing so much, it's legitimately the best on KZbin rn

[@ScHaERX]

Love that ending, love that atmosphere, what a great channel. Sincerely, Charlie Cauliflower

[@evanmorhart113]

This is so good dude! I don't know how you find all the info to string these stories together, but you're incredible at it!

[@irradiatedsnakes]

got directed to your channel from a part of your jan hendrick schon essay being on jacob geller's video essay recommendation playlist, and i absolutely fell in love with your style (both in content and in visuals- but like, absolutely ENTRANCED w the visuals) immediately. cant wait to see more of your essays!! :D

[@BobbyBroccoli]

Thanks so much! Glad to have you here

[@uetzgenfatz]

Just stumbled upon your videos (Schön affair, etc.). I'm really impressed by the effort you put into them. Fantastic work!

[@garnet1918]

What an incredible video! The storytelling, the editing... Fantastic.

[@madamerobots]

What an excellent article about them .. I like the fact you were not as mocking and focused on their appearance that was star least interesting aspect of those brothers ..

[@AugustRileyMusic]

You killed it with this video, great job!

[@ocanehauncanedichieilcane]

Haven't had enough time to watch the full video yet, but your animations are awesome, dude. I'm gonna come back later and watch the rest.

[@fullcapsethan]

as a french citizen, it's always so weird to see them being talked about outside of french circles! your videos are delightful :)

[@bup6340]

I live in Germany and a lot of people recognize them for their faces, still.

[@fullcapsethan]

@@bup6340 it's REALLY HARD to confuse them for somebody else thats for sure

[@bup6340]

@@fullcapsethan I couldn't agree with you more.

[@AbuHajarAlBugatti]

@@fullcapsethan 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂🦛🦛🦛🦛🦛

[@LizzieLeporidae]

Absolutely phenomenal. Really looking forward to the next video! :)

[@bensamuels4401]

Can't believe I just found your channel my guy. Criminally underrated content.

[@Purin1023]

Thanks for the quick rundown. RIP Bogs

[@ericmememan4632]

the reference to the other legendary forum post in ur script did not go unnoticed or underappreciated 🥰

[@AnthonyCapps]

goddamn this channel is so good, thank you for this story

[@ayylmao394]

Amazing production my mate, RIP the brothers and prayers to their families.

[@QuillC]

The production, editing, writing, everything that goes into these videos, is some of the best on this platform. Seriously impressed with every single one of your videos, please keep it up.

[@polybiusplayer3433]

Your work really reminds me of Jon Bois!!! The start especially feels like a Chart Party episode, this is just wonderful to watch

[@TurbopropPuppy]

this vid slipped under my recommendations radar so i rung the notification bell when i found it, something i haven't done with any content creator in like, literal years i really love your vids, hope to see more from you soon! side note: i often really struggle with following along with video essays without subtitles, so i really appreciate the thoroughness of the ones here

[@bruuh4216]

Please keep such scientific-ish videos coming, the production is astonishing

[@Boneworm852]

This was a great video from start to finish, but holy shit that ending was amazing, well done!!!

[@pandinojo]

this man straight up producing the best science related informational videos on the planet with 52k subs. Keep at it and you will have a job at a massive network one day when more people are interested in topics along these lines

[@somedude2748]

I never want off Mr Broccoli's wild rides

[@colamity_5000]

This is really good. An interesting story told well, subbed.

[@luggy2000]

I've seen this video like 5 times and the editing of the start and the ending just gives me the chills

[@AzuriteCoast]

Fantastic video. Appreciate the nods to the "meme culture" without going over the top or getting in the way of the subject of the piece.

[@zander2180]

Great video 🔥 I just wish you would have included more of their crazy quotes from the paper!

[@BobbyBroccoli]

I had a lot of trouble with that! The issue is that so much of is indistinguishable from the real thing if you're not used to reading dense mathematical texts. Like I did my fair share of advanced math in school but it all went over my head, the Foucault's pendulum line is probably the easiest to explain. You should check out John Baez's blog post for more info math.ucr.edu/home/baez/bogdanoff/

[@zander2180]

@@BobbyBroccoli Right on I was going to try and read it but it's all French and that's a lot to translate lol 👍 & Subscribed.

[@willt9331]

Incredibly good video! I feel like I have a PhD in bogdanoff studies now

[@jaybingham3711]

Excellent presentation. Nice visuals. Great pacing. I think the Brothers papers speak more to the issues of ever narrowing fields of specialization in physics (and science in general) and the need for more precise language to discuss nuanced issues in those fields. It's really not a difficult task to abuse such language after lifting it from where it belongs. And then claim it's just gobbledygook. Nowadays one is doing well just to keep up with the latest findings of a singular niche area of study.

[@LachimusPrime]

I'm 35s in and already appreciating the production value!!

[@gregmark1688]

Referring to Foucault as using "dominoes" in keeping with the theme of your graphics sequences is a really nice thematic touch!

[@BobbyBroccoli]

You are the first person to point this out haha. I even toyed with doing rigid body sims in Blender to animate a domino trail toppling

[@jimsmith7212]

@@BobbyBroccoli Foucault pendulum precession depends upon latitude. Only if located at the axial poles would pendulums move a full 360° in 24 hours. At the equator a Foucault pendulum will swing back and forth and not precede at all. "A Foucault pendulum located at the latitude of Paris takes about 32 hours to complete a precession cycle. This means that after one sidereal day, when the Earth has returned to its orientation of one day before, the pendulum has precessed three quarters of a cycle." They also travel different directions in the Northern and southern hemispheres.

[@jdiluigi]

The Algorithm is finally doing me some good and recommended a couple vids of yours. Looking forward to vacuuming up the rest of your content as soon as possible. Good stuff my friend.

[@dgalloway107]

This video and your editing is fantastic.

[@stewartmeetball3417]

Just found out channel and I've ate up 4 videos so far. Greatly underrated channel and criminally undersubbed

[@ImBoredToo]

I have no idea how I found this channel, but you are vastly underappreciated

[@BobbyBroccoli]

Legit no idea? Because it's super helpful for me to know how people stumble onto my videos

[@pokedoodle]

@@BobbyBroccoli Its just youtube algorithm I assume, if people are stumbling upon it from the algorithm, thats probably a good sign for future success :)

[@Bitcoinjesus313]

I had NO IDEA these were real people. My mind is blown.

[@tulinfirenze1990]

Yep - only found out about them yesterday here in Australia.

[@MiniKodjo]

I had no idea they were know outside France lol

[@klausstock8020]

Look at them after all that plastic surgery, and you might revise your opinion on whether they are real humans or not.

[@thej3799]

🤔 had a sister once. And didn't know of these guys. Eye to plastic hydrocarbon processed dial your face wtf I love yall if it makes you happy only be careful surgery can be harmful if not gone into with knowledge, and well... I never known yall, but physics is a sense, a lot of c3nts that surgery ain't cheap, iiin between lines reap so, you firmly invested in capitalism, a win for you throws a person on the street, but hey whatever right? Two yall only set things to the wrong time relative to all the time spent discussing your shit instead of advancing the fundamental limit of all man may know and I didn't know, shhhhh you know, i got some stories to throw down, I developed a philosophical background framework for an entire new gen to give without condition my love my understanding disrupting established ideas, yet sympathetic empathetic tie together ❤️ love and respect responsibility and thread back to ground establishing all of em red(what the colors about anyway, anyone? Lol thought so), but the absurdity to me is that I'm a gender nonbinary out of fucks and want simply to give the world lacking slacking acting all wack and from my tableting typos touch keyboarding said I designed something cool as icing cake distancing and plotting yet rather than mathing, tho words are mathing you simply unaware so, irony is what I say it is semantics and context are easy to bend to my will, and when I said years ago this will be something serious you know, they still have absolutely no idea, oh shit! Neither does anybody because the idea in your mind is a physically altered state of mind to not only know me but read this this.. hey 👋 so stop the disinformation. I don't care if you roast me but gently please and stop projecting anger and jealousy accept it and move past it and when you take all the shit I dropped on the world and have fun with it, or be serious with it remember you can't know me without the love associated with my stance on nearly everything, my mission is not to profit, but I posted here as a warning that I'm real, hard af, and these educated people fooled by asshole rich motherfuckes tricking you for luls, bruh wtf, you think I don't know all those dancing around all I know and freely gave out because conditions and love make as much sense as the hoaxes, goes to show it working haters elevating my words even if they entirely avoid a single mention oh wait...how he do that? It's now everyone knows can see disingenuous throws wild as I slide my balls right center left envelope the strike zone our biome we bout to exceed and while I wrote this thing people I love fucking up the only thing we gave to live on and it's getting pissed on angry hot, you know how much time got if we don't stop gaming flaming outright ignoring each other and hating why the fuck we gonna feel like saving each other... but I'm one person and happy with all those waking to wtf are you know doing, fuckin look out the window and the mental construct your mind critical eyes and you might be like sorry, and yeah ok but you still ain't doing somethiiing. -J3

[@koolnqueer98]

Okay Mister Gaylord

[@MoonlitWood]

4:46 I don't know if you intended it (I imagine you must have) but I like that you integrated the "quick rundown" into this line. Innocent on first blush, but upon seeing part two, suddenly it takes on a whole new meaning.

[@stopme7030]

the production value of your vids blows me away