THE BOURNE IDENTITY (2002) TWIN BROTHERS FIRST TIME WATCHING MOVIE REACTION!

Matt Damon.
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[@maggieshevelew7579]

So, you CANNOT watch this movie without finishing the trilogy. They’re based on the books written by author Robert Ludlum, so it was always meant to be a trilogy. You really must watch The Bourne Supremacy and The Bourne Ultimatum. It only gets better from here. Can’t wait to see the next one!

[@StreetHierarchy]

I think JASON BOURNE is great, too.

[@RexFuturi]

@@GhostWatcher2024 The books were really good. Make the movies kinda embarrassing. But people don't remember the Jackal anymore, so it wouldn't have the same meaning for modern audiences.

[@highstimulation2497]

as do I.

[@SirBroadcast]

@@RexFuturi I see a lot of mixed feelings on the books.

[@RoninNZ]

I don't think it gets much love but I really enjoyed The Bourne Legacy with Jeremy Renner too.

[@ianjardine7324]

The sequels are actually pretty great digging deeper into who he was how and why he became the killing machine he was and why. As well as why they were so desperate to clean him up.

[@bryancate4916]

The Bourne supremacy is pretty awesome

[@hughjorg4008]

The sequel, *The Bourne Supremacy* (2004), is even better than the original (if that is even possible) and the sequel to the sequel, *The Bourne Ultimatum* (2007) even better than the two previous films.

[@Cifer77]

What I love about Jason Bourne is just how smart he is, the tactical analysis, the logical conclusions, the improvisational combat skills. Like when they were hiding in that farmhouse, he knew exactly where the most likely place a gun was being held. He already knew the best vantage point for a sniper near the house, he just already knows so much. Then you look at his assassin counterparts, the first guy killed himself when he realizes he couldn't win. The second one just... was ok with dying, and was lamenting with Bourne how awful their lives were. I get what you mean about the quick cuts though.

[@Cifer77]

6:40 He just assaulted two police offers in an open public area, he needs to change his appearance if he can, ditching the coat is a quick and easy way to partially do that. 18:58 That song is "Ready Steady Go" by Paul Oakenfold (It's actually an old favorite of mine) 21:20 Why would they hear that he "died"? If you went shopping for a boat then died, would your family think notifying the boat dealership was important? lol I think you guys will love the sequels!

[@Rmlohner]

This movie was constantly being rewritten while being made, with the writer sometimes having to fax new pages to the set right in the middle of shooting. And then they had to completely redo the ending when test audiences hated the first version (which is totally understandable if you've seen it in the special features). It's really a miracle it ended up this conherent.

[@ianjardine7324]

To be fair the films bare almost no relationship to the books thank god. The books are awful full of every cliché in the genre and badly written to boot.

[@highstimulation2497]

the bones?

[@highstimulation2497]

I have HEARD, not sure where, that the way the bourne films came out, this one included, is less like James Bond (say, I think I heard it in the special features of the 2nd or 3rd film, maybe this one...) and that he represents a more contemporary "mistrust" of government, paranoid of it, even, in contrast to bond, whom, at least in the older movies, (though probably the newer ones as well (I haven't seen many,) is a PROUD spy, and LIKES being a spy, for his country, whereas bourne represents more someone running from their government, pursued by it, mistrustful of it. thoughts?

[@stevem2323]

Coherent it's fucking amazing.

[@leoda_lion4107]

The Bourne trilogy is so badass. It gets better, next one is the Bourne Supremacy, and then Bourne Ultimatum. The books describe it as the Bourne Identity took over in the moment. So it gives you a better idea, the books are very different. But the movies only get better, as he tries to piece it all together. The trilogy has some of the best fight scenes in all of cinema.

[@oxyiscool]

Don't forget Legacy.... Jeremy was fantastic in that...

[@acmartialarts2227]

Bruh is dickriding all you do?

[@hughjorg4008]

When *The Bourne Identity* was released in 2002, the James Bond producers/writers realized they needed a new type of James Bond, because the contemporary James Bond looked stupid next to Jason Bourne, resulting in Daniel Craig's rough version of Bond and *Casino Royale* (2006).

[@andrewdunn8778]

The Bourne Identity books actually take place around the time of the Vietnam war. They made an old TV movie of them in the '80s, this is actually the second adaptation of The Bourne Identity.

[@daniilashurov135]

Yooo, thats an amazing pick! The original Bourne trilogy was PERFECT, 4th and 5th movies were kinda ok, but first three movies are something I rewatch every couple years.

[@spddracer]

I was a fan of 4 with Jeremy Renner. It was in the same world but took on a different focus.

[@lonewolf-prince]

Only thing of the 5th one was lack of footchasing but still like the 4th and 5th

[@DeeboX-vv8ji]

@@spddracer I really liked the Renner movie, it was Bourne without the Amnesia. What was the 5th one? Unless you're talking about the TV show Tredstone, there wasn't a 5th movie.

[@ryanhart8740]

@@DeeboX-vv8ji The 5th movie is called Jason Bourne, with Matt Damon again and the same director as 2 and 3… 😃

[@latrelljack8751]

@@DeeboX-vv8ji 5th one was in 2016 I believe

[@StreetHierarchy]

18:58 This song is great! It's Paul Oakenfold and it's in COLLATERAL also, another great action movie with Tom Cruise and Jamie Foxx.

[@itzyagurl358]

The Bourne movies are one of my favorite!! Glad to see someone appreciate it as much as I do.

[@acmartialarts2227]

No it’s not

[@acwolf92]

Finally someone on KZbin is reacting to this franchise.

[@andreshernandez1180]

Oh yeah, this is a great saga, don’t take too long between movies though, not just for us but it’ll help you guys follow all the events more easily.

[@chrisellis3797]

Those mini coopers were the original rally cars to have. That's why it really moves 😊

[@traviscouplin8847]

I love watching The Bourne franchise films Matt Damon still brings the fight to finished.

[@Casey6284]

This was pretty cool when it first came out. It was basically the first time we saw Matt Damon in an action role and he killed it! 👌

[@FrancisXLord]

I believe the credit for the title goes to Robert Ludlum, the author. Believe it or not, this was not the first screen adaptation of this book. There was a two part mini series, starring Richard Chamberlain, in 1988.

[@christinemclaurin2631]

MUST do the trilogy! Seriously, Bourne was BUILT DIFFERENT 🔥🔥🔥💪

[@OriginalLictre]

As an amnesiac, Bourne had an advantage that may have escaped your notice. He was able to approach each and every confrontation as a purely tactical event, unburdened by any conception of hatred, affection, or any other emotional entanglement. The guys he was fighting might have been his brothers in arms, or long time enemies, but without that context, he could give each fight his absolute focus and fight to end the fight, whatever it takes.

[@batmanvsjoker7725]

This is one of those movies where the shaky cam actually works for this scenario. We feel like Jason who has no clue of who he used to be and feels pursued, it oddly makes it feel more tense and puts a more real feel to it. It's only been used as more of a joke in today's movies. I truly think this is one the movies that had a lot of influence on the action genre.

[@acmartialarts2227]

Ok but why

[@billbill6094]

Yeah, this literally changed action movies for the worse until John Wick came out and hollywood couldn't get away with putting untalented actors in front of an epileptic lensman anymore. The third movie was probably the worst because Matt Damon worked his ass off to train in martial arts and the action ended up being an incoherent mess.

[@jillwanlin9558]

Pressing like before watching. The entire Bourne series is awesome! I’m 💯you’ll enjoy. ❤

[@killianlpc]

Guys the Bourne Trilogy are amazing films, with Identity, Supremacy and Ultimatum all just brilliant and cannot be split, as each one is as good as the other. You gotta do the three they are off the charts!

[@laticiadavis8627]

Now y'all have to finish the trilogy, thanks for watching I've suggested this trilogy several times. Great job guys. 👏

[@shamancarmichael5305]

One of my favorite trilogies, they are all amazing! Matt Damon kicks butt, or more specifically, grapes.😏 More please!

[@Neo6364]

Can’t wait to see you guys go through this series. It’s really great. Also, HUGE props on putting out good and consistent content. my evenings are fun when I see a new video from you two.

[@TangentOmega]

One thing about Robert Ludlum characters (writer of the book),with memory and without, is they are NEVER scared. THEY are the danger..LOL! They also never get cold, hungry, tired, need sleep, or to use the bathroom.

[@jeremyleforce7926]

You done did it now. This franchise is GREAT!

[@acmartialarts2227]

No

[@mimig3904]

Goodness you haven't seen him in Good Will Hunting!!?? Classic Oscar movie with him, Robin Williams & Ben Affleck. The Bourne movies are based on a novel series because it's a continuing story.

[@nicolasbaron4506]

This is a fantastic action thriller that is both absorbing and thrilling. The mystery surrounding the figure keeps the audience interested throughout. It's unique since it focuses on a personal journey rather than an objective. It's excellent in every way, and Matt Damon is a fantastic fit for the role.

[@MavenCree]

People - both fans and creators were lobbying HARD for the third Bourne movie (Ultimatum) to be nominated for an Oscar and ALLLLL the other awards, it's that good. This is a great trilogy. (I said what I said.)

[@ta2gypsy]

So happy to see ya did it in the rabbit hole (poke poke, wink wink, nudge nudge, hey what!) & found BOURNE! I hope ya watch the other 2

[@John_Locke_108]

Saw this in the theater when it came out and it blew my mind. Such an amazing film, a greet movie trilogy, and a terrific set of books.

[@maniac50ae14]

Same

[@Hundredzs]

Bro this trilogy is one of my favorite EVER. Right next to the Matrix trilogy. You guys MUST watch the next two films digging deeper into his identity. It is a must.

[@caneanddawgfan4life]

This is one of those rare franchises where the sequels are just as good as the first one.

[@ryanmckenna3503]

This was back when Clive Owen was still in his "I spit/drool in every heavy scene for effect" phase.

[@Lord_Williams]

Curtis, my mum says thank you for last night, she’s 85 years old and she hopes she didn’t disappoint. Oh and she’s asking do you know what she did with her false teeth as she can’t find them. Love the channel and much respect.

[@peperino25]

*Love the old edit style , thanks for back to the normal !* This is the way!

[@tearupnationinc.7199]

Who here practices "Krav Maga"because Matt Damon. P.s he also knows Filipino Kali, Wing Chun and Jeet kune do, Lastly Boxing. Oh I forgot if you watched "The long kiss goodnight" it's similar to this 🎥🍿.

[@williamsummerson1204]

Great reaction Chris and Curtis. The first 3 movies are amazing while the 4th and 5th are pretty good. Matt Damon is a beast and perfect for this role.

[@ericc8705]

Some really GREAT movies with Matt Damon * The Martian * Ford versus Ferrari * Dogma * Saving Private Ryan * Rounders

[@dnish6673]

Talented Mr. Ripley

[@tsogobauggi8721]

"I had to close down everything, I had to close down my mind. Too many things could cut me, too much can make me blind. I've seen so much in so many places, so many heartaches, so many faces. So many dirty things, you couldn't even believe." :)

[@telsat]

Probably the most underrated movie in the last two decades Incredible plot intense intriguing interesting that keeps you at the edge of your seat throughout the the movie. One of the best movie trilogy of all time and Matt Damon was perfect for the role with the greatest cast with the beautiful german actress Franka Pontente love her name. Last but not least Doug Liman top ten best director of all time. Wow this movie lever gets old and the theme song at the end « Extreme ways » performed by Moby wow

[@Salieri21]

@15:15 Baby Curtis’ frightened 😟 face❤.

[@i.m.7710]

More!!!!!!!! More Bourne!!!!!!!! 👍🏾👍🏾👍🏾👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽two more movies!!!!! Great reactions guys!!!!!!🥳🥳🥳🥳🥳🥳🥳🥳🥳🥳🥳🥳 Note: the treadstone assassin at the house shot in the field was Clive Owen. He was yummy in “The Croupier.”

[@VIKINGKING12]

One of few trilogy's i never sick and tired of watching

[@Hurbie_53]

Just in case you are wondering about the actress who plays Marie: German actress Franka Potente is always awesome and especially in her breakout role in 1998 german movie "Run, Lola run!" If you get the chance, take anlook at that. For 1998 the cinematography was insane and the soundtrack, written and produced by director Tom Twyker, is pumping and pushing the movie ahead bar none. As I said, if you have the time ...

[@Unknownproof-u6y]

Yessss they finally watched another one of my top 10 favourite films thank you so much guys such a great film 🎥😁😁

[@xxxentbrandonredhoodrobins7606]

I’m a huge fan of the Bourne Films cannot wait until y’all do The Bourne Supermecy Next

[@UncleMilo]

Actually, there are multiple movies because there were multiple books. You should see all three films. They also made a movie called The Bourne Legacy which I enjoyed as well.

[@stephenlackey5852]

Love love love this series. And three cheers to the unbilled leads-the cellists: Jodi Burnette, Rowena Hammill, Victor Lawrence, Roger LeBow (like he could do anything but play strings with that name!), Steve Richards, David Schamban, Christina Soule, Kevin Torfeh, and Cecelia Tsan. That tense cello motif needs to be in a video game if it’s not already.

[@lakeracer8453]

You've opened up a helluva rabbit hole here. Keep going, it's just gets better. All your questions will be answered.

[@k.delpino1124]

Unquestionably one of the best spy franchises. Jason Bourne was my ideal spy character. Because he was so flawed, relatable and stoic. Definite Inspiration on The Long Kiss Goodnight (1996) and Jackie Chan's Who Am I? (1998). The novel series by Robert Ludlum debuted in the year I was born (1980). I saw the very-first screen adaptation on television with Richard Chamberlain & Jaclyn Smith when I was 8 (1988). Matt Damon getting his own franchise, 5 years after winning an Academy Award was unprecedented. So great from start to finish and more of an tradition approach to the genre. I have the special edition from 2004 with alternate beginning and ending that makes the story more complex. The next 2 films (2004, 2007) are incredible. The 3rd film (2012) with Jeremy Renner is not liked very much. But was a decent enough sequel to me. The 4th film (2016) with Damon's return as Bourne is a phenomenal one. Extreme Ways (The Bourne Theme) by Moby is killer.

[@mcmc4120]

ABOUT TIME BOYS! These movies are EPIC ... so excited! Long time fan and subscriber - Love and Respect from Scotland 😆

[@tree6787]

I got to see this in the theater and it truly blew me away it was such a great movie everybody in the theater was cheering at the end. I love the first two I don't think I've seen any of the others. The first two are amazing though.

[@dive2drive314]

Probably my favorite trilogy of all time. The soundtrack is so good too!

[@StreetHierarchy]

21:12 This woman's reaction always said to me "I am seeing a ghost!" I think they either didn't hear he'd died or assumed they received inaccurate information.

[@mauriciomoreno997]

I always would remmenber the dad of Duck Dinasty saying Bourrrrne every time I watch any Bourne movie

[@ahdvd]

The first Bourne movies is one of the best trilogies to exist, Identity, then Supremacy, then Ultimatum just get better and better with each one. Legacy does a great job of trying to expand the world, but sadly the last one, simply called Jason Bourne, while entertaining, decides to ignore the expansion of Legacy. Still hoping they will be able to bring Damon back to be able to delve more into that expanded world of Treadstone and the other programs

[@newfate26]

Probably one of my favorite trilogies around. Just a tidbit for when you get to the third film, Ultimatum, remember what the program he said they were starting up after the closing of Treadstone...

[@farzeenkara5079]

A movie review once a day is good with me! You guys ever hear of Dogma? I think one of Damon's best and funniest. Its also one of those Jay and SIlent Bob type movies... you guys would love it.

[@christinemclaurin2631]

Dogma is so underrated 😎

[@Mzdiva924]

I love Dogma! I’d love to see them review it!

[@ineptgamer3814]

There are actually 5 films and TV series called Treadstone. Robert Ludlum only wrote the first three books, so I guess it was originally only meant to be a trilogy. Thanks for another cool video, guys. 👍🏻

[@gothchickbaby]

PLEASE watch all of them!!! the whole Bourne line is awesome

[@becksimilian2955]

As Paul Rudd's character in 40 Yr Old Virgin says, "Y'know, I always thought that Matt Damon was like a Streisand, but he's rocking the shit in this one!!"

[@solsirhibragusowl2221]

Please continue this awesome trilogy!! You're gonna love the next two, I promise.

[@paulieluppino1856]

9:36 ....."He upper cut his grapes"..... That's not how wine is elaborated.....

[@lordofhousestewart1821]

A film that redefined action cinema...huge influence over the daniel craig bond series. Really a modern classic...i love the Bourne v The Professor scene at the farm house.

[@julielabrouste6344]

6:42 He left the jacket because they can say "He's wearing this orange jacket."

[@balansboy]

The entire Bourne series is fantastic

[@mikeaninger7388]

I just love how you guys always enjoy a good beat! Rock on! 🤘

[@christined6321]

I loved the editing! I think it made him appear faster and sharp. It made it more exciting for me trying to keep up! I think other movies tried to follow this formula for the fight scenes and car chase.

[@CChissel]

Y’all need to do the trilogy of Bourne, it’s pretty good and the action is a little cut up and too quick, but it’s still good for a guy that’s not a martial artist.

[@apatternedhorizon]

Fifth one is good too. Gives more info on why Bourne joined, his dad, and Nicky.

[@SolidSnake240]

Man imagine if the Bourne movies had the cinematographers from John Wick filming the fights.

[@daniilashurov135]

@@SolidSnake240 nah, It wouldnt suit it. Dont get me wrong - action in Wick looks great, and it suits franchise's over-the-top style and Keanu's inhuman coolness. But Bourne has completely different style, its more grounded, action doesnt happen in lavish nightclubs, Bourne himself isnt "cool", he is an agent who is constantly on the move, trying to blend in, and the chaotic camera work suits that percectly.

[@CChissel]

@@daniilashurov135 yeah but the chaotic camera is to cover up the inadequacy of the actor and their skill. It may have been a stylistic choice but the main reason is to not make the ones performing look dumb or unskilled. So I can’t agree with that, everyone wants to see the action clear and without cuts.

[@daniilashurov135]

@@CChissel they cut the car chases the same way, obviously there were stunt drivers, but still. Even some of the dialogues shot in similar energetic way. Not so much in the first one, but definitely in 2 and 3. Sure, it covers actors' lack of fighting skills, but it feels like a stylistic choice foremost. And in Bourne movies its done right. For example Quantum of Solace tried the same style, but failed, action was almost unwatchebale.

[@astranoel895]

Keep watching all! The Trilogy is most important but honestly all 5 are great and round out the whole story. And that ending theme song by Moby features in most if not all of them and is immaculate. Just fits perfectly 🥰

[@eldo59]

It was cool seeing the BMW guy Clive Owen in this movie. I recommend watching the 2002 & 2017 BMW short films he was in. Really cool 10-15 minute films.

[@Loveisall23]

Bourne Supremacy, then Bourne Ultimatum...it's a great trilogy..you will absolutely love it.

[@BNTB12]

Please watch the whole franchise. The story really builds and I don’t think there were ANY in the franchise that weren’t amazing movies. Matt Damon kills it EVERY time!!

[@gerardoreyes602]

Awesome reaction guys 👏👏👏 love the channel and USA channel did a spinoff called Treadstone, only 1 season but it was good just wished they would have done more. Never thought Matt Damon was an action guy but this series changed my mind.

[@wroot_lt]

You forgot about the other assassin dying in the fields. That's an important part of this story, on how they are made to be what they are.

[@teanosuger]

The Bourne identity is what gave us the harder edged Bond however Bourne has no comparison it stands on its own for its nothing fancy or flashy just Brutal. Also for awesome Austin Mini action the 1969 classic Michael cain Italian Job, it has one of the ( if not the ) best opening scenes ever…. On days……..

[@silverblade357]

We need more characters like Boat Doctor. He appears, saves the protag, doesn't take getting attacked personally, sets the whole plot in motion, and gets to live without some bullshite killing him off!

[@ayvzu]

“Ayo switch targets real quick” lmaoo

[@keetahbrough]

0:33 MY CAT MAKES THAT LOOK WHEN HE'S BEING STRANGLED BY THE OTHER CAT LOL This series and the fast and the furious series are my favourites!

[@Flux_Nomad]

I think Doug Liman is a very underrated action director. Edge of Tomorrow would be worth doing a reaction.

[@newfate26]

Edge of Tomorrow, Mr and Mrs Smith, even Jumper is an interesting watch.

[@katedc]

@@newfate26 All of these and 1998's insanely underrated Go.

[@acmartialarts2227]

Don’t encourage this autism

[@scalefree]

the original trilogy is really one story all starring Matt Damon but Bourne Legacy is worth a look, it's about a different Treadstone operative played by Jeremy Renner.

[@KansaSCaymanS]

Dudes, you HAVE to watch the rest of the trilogy! You won’t be disappointed. 😎👍

[@illcryst]

Great pick hope you guys enjoyed it, one of my all time favourite action movies ever !!👊

[@carlroza102]

Keep going guys! Great franchise !❤❤❤❤

[@sharkdentures3247]

I really love Bourne Identity. I know the "amnesia-trope" has been overused to the point of cliche, but I think they do it well here. The action is cool & crisp, the tactics are awesome, just overall a great "James Bond-esk" movie. Also, I really like Julia Stiles. She was one of the "pretty" actresses that I never had the "hots" for & therefore was never distracted by her looks. Thus, I could simply enjoy her presence on screen and just admire her performances.

[@billbill6094]

Bourne really started the trend so it's hard to say it plays off cliches

[@Zseventyone]

The 2 thumbs / this guy joke lives! Haven't heard that one since I was telling it in late 90's.

[@OctoKrool]

Gotta keep the classics alive

[@szenszely5143]

8:32 Jaywalking :D That is so american thing to say :) In most of Europe you can pretty much cross streets wherever you want. Nice reaction, this is the best one of the Bourne movies.

[@dorisg.3]

Matt Damon fit exactly into this role, exciting until the end 👍👍💪💪

[@acmartialarts2227]

Quit dickriding

[@est1977santosLA]

Recently subscribed. Binge watching your catalog. I think y’all would enjoy The Negotiator. The banter between both of you is awesome! If y’all weren’t a KZbin channel, you’d be a successful podcast review channel. Keep up the entertaining reviews!!

[@rodericklisbon4787]

Yeah man! Bourne Identity is a great series, so You've got to see parts 2 & 3!

[@tankosaurus]

This is the movie that started the "fight scene quick cut/shaky cam" trend that nearly all Hollywood movies used after this. To this movies credit, it does it intentionally and in a way that is still mostly readable because of the way it was shot and edited (there a video essay about it somewhere on YT, I can't remember who did it off the top of my head... maybe Every Frame a Painting...), but everyone that followed missed that bit and just create a visual mess and call it a day. That said, yeah, I still don't like how they shot the fights either, especially knowing the it created the trend that ruined all Hollywood action scene since. Nearly every fight scene in a movie that came out after this is unenjoyable to the point where if I'm watching an action movie in the cinema, I will take my toilet break DURING an action scene. Which should, by all rights be a dumb thing to do. This is why I love Jackie Chan, not only are the fight shot and edited well, and preformed well, they also advance the story (unlike a lot of Hollywood movies). There are only two or three American directors that aren't doing it in their movies... and guess what, they started out as Stunties. David Leitch and Chad Stahelski being the two main ones that come to mind.

[@aaliyahlenoraa]

I would LOOOVEEE for you all to react to the move The Hurricanes with Denzel Washington. It’s a GREAT movie, I think you all would love it. ☺️

[@write2pras84]

Probably my most favorite trilogy. Or at least in the top 3. They just keep getting better!!

[@davidgreene805]

Love the reactions. Its weird when you watch on old one off the channel though, the intros are so much more down to earth and calm/mellow.

[@21nickik]

This is basically the movie that created the modern quick cut fight Szene. So when they did it was pretty unique and stylistic, and then it was just copied to death.

[@Trendyflute]

This is not "my genre" per se but I think this is a great movie, a top-notch action thriller and spy film all in one. IMO it's a lot better than the book. There are a lot of fans of the entire trilogy; IMO I think you'll find the sequels play up the fast cutting and the fighting (plus shaky, blurry cam so you can't see anything) at the expense of a lot of other elements and they suffer for it. This one is pretty dang chef's kiss, however! Super unique action, sparse but impactful sound design, a twisting but followable story, really interesting main characters. I love everything at the farm. FYI this was Franka Potente's US breakthrough after starring in the German language hit _Run Lola Run_

[@dantirk4560]

Best Bourne reaction I’ve seen! Thanks, guys, I can’t wait for Supremacy 🇺🇸💪

[@allelopathy]

2:02 subscrububu 7:58 boom-boom 9:25 moment of truth 10:25 the law of universal gravitation 12:11 big 20 15:58 The pen is mightier than the sword 20:33 WoW wow wowowowowoeww 25:15 Hunting season 27:05 peaceful death 32:32 WTF scene 34:24 That smooth bastard has no ID