The Brilliant Problem With NEW SRAM Red XPLR

[@bikeradar]

What do you think of the updates to this groupset?

[@PrzemyslawSliwinski]

5:32 - how can shifting quality be affected by the 1x chainring?

[@Alex-md6bu]

I love your premise that you don’t have to buy the whole groupset, it’s just too bad you do have to buy a new frame as most gravel frames for the next hour don’t have Udh compatibility

[@petersouthernboy6327]

@@Alex-md6buI’m seeing plenty of UDH on new bikes.

[@mortlow6688]

nothing... still happy with my mech. force cx1 derailleur...

[@peterthe46er]

The gearing is incompatible with climbing steep hills especially when backpacking. Why limit the chainring to 38 teeth?

[@KoreaRides]

Even the cassette is $650! And the derailleur is $700! That’s $1,350 just for those two 😂

[@a1white]

it is ridiculous pricing

[@iyadkamhiyeh527]

That's beyond ridiculous, give it 5 years, and we'll be hearing prices around 15K for a F groupset..

[@LifeCycle1978]

They will release force and rival versions just like they always do

[@evanm.2300]

Yeah but how long do we gotta wait typically??​@LifeCycle1978

[@Rekmeyata]

@@a1white It's ridiculous pricing because the bike and component manufacturers think that only very wealthy people ride bikes so they can afford to be ripped off, that, and they play off of our stupidity!

[@SamanthaBep]

Bike reviewer not saying a new wheelset accelerates fast challenge level: impossible

[@georgzwiebel9585]

bike and wine reviewers have one common enemy. A blind test.

[@fernandoroman6494]

the only issue is that in real world conditions, only one of those can be done blindfolded

[@iyadkamhiyeh527]

Bike reviews are just waffle, the least objective thing ever..

[@alvara2184]

@@fernandoroman6494Two otherwise similar wheels but other one is filled with led. Then the irrelevancy of rolling mass could be proven.

[@fernandoroman6494]

@@alvara2184 but that wouldnt be a blind test because you could definitely feel the weight difference

[@mrvwbug4423]

I could buy a nice carbon frame gravel bike with 105/GRX 600 level components for what that groupset costs haha

[@brandonhoffman4712]

You couldnt buy a good racing frame for the cost of that racing groupset. An s-works crux frameset is about $5,000 and the bike with this drivetrain is over $12k. One can get a new complete rolling bike for $500, $1,000ish with gears. Im looking @ a scott speedster 30 with 2x sora on sale for $944. Same bike with 11spd 105 is $1,350. For $2,200 i can get 12spd SRAM AXS 2x road groupset on a carbon frame.

[@kowalski864]

Whining about prices is kind of boring, but this is really outrageously expensive. I'd really like to know the manufacturing cost of these groupsets. It's high-tech, well-built and innovative, but 4k for shifitng gears on a bicycle... It's still pretty basic stuff, no?

[@veazie]

Good call on the wait for it to cascade to lesser SRAM groupsets

[@tinniswood2577]

Prices are a JOKE, but no one laughing.

[@MonsterdonMTB]

I think that new mech would also be great on an XC bike. Probably not officially recommended though.

[@petersouthernboy6327]

Once I rode a good electronic groupset, my mechanical XTR seems a little less awesome

[@daswienerle3018]

Well they say its compatible with all the other axs stuff so it will most likely work. I don't know how large the weight difference to the xx1 is or if the xx1 derailleur is much sturdier.

[@nicolasbozzo2364]

@@daswienerle3018i think is more of a matter of shift jumps and maintaining cadence

[@evanm.2300]

Unless the bike is near 20 pounds, id rather have a 50 ish tooth cassette on mtb

[@mrvwbug4423]

Just run a XX-SL Eagle mech on an XC bike, it's the MTB equivalent to Red.

[@MrDox123]

Cost aside, which is a different conversation, the benefit of “gear count” is particularly useful on 1x setups. This is because the more gears one has available on the cassette, the better one can optimize cadence. On 2x setups, cassette gear count is less of an issue as 2x10 provides plenty of gearing options. But SRAM is a 1x forward company and going to 13s (or 14), much like Campy Ekar did with its 1x only gravel groupset release, makes lots of sense. So discussing cost and whether we “need” 13 or 14 speed cassettes is a bit of a “vintage” conversation. Frankly, 2x10 is unnecessary as 2x8 also provides enough distinct gears (about 13-14). The short answer is no. We don’t “need” any of these new drivetrain mechanics but from an evolutionary design perspective, it sure makes sense and is nicer to ride. I enjoy riding my 2x8 30 yo vintage Cannondale but love riding my plush 1x12 electronic gravel bike. So much more comfortable and easier to shift. And speaking of electronic, there is also good reason to believe that this cassette (or any 13 or 14 speed cassette given appropriate freehub) would also work with RD’s such as the one made by WheelTop. Not sure what the lowest gear spec is on the current road RD though. A gravel RD is supposedly on its way.

[@rosomak8244]

Yes. I stick with 2x8. Reliable, durable and cheap. On top of that, the same functionality for 1/20th the price. They can kiss my ass with this new faff.

[@drill_fiend1097]

These are not groupsets you buy for yourself; it's the kind you ask your sponsor to pay for the race events.

[@JogBird]

more like sram would be the one to seek out an athlete to use the groupset.. a sponsor wouldnt care what groupset youre riding

[@niner8tangojuliet149]

For the price of this group you could buy a car.

[@quwers]

Not really useful on a bike ride.

[@Rekmeyata]

@@quwers nor is wasting that kind of money just to ride ride!

[@skiwildcat7]

Not in this used car market lol

[@PikX221]

The whole set costs more than a car transmission. Unhinged pricing really.

[@JohnHesketh-vw2tn]

Warren is incorrect about the old 1x Red power meter setup being a single piece. This is true for the 2x chainset but the 1x allows you to swap rings (I have it). This is at about 4:50. Otherwise great video!

[@mfa81]

That would be the axs 107 bcd powermeter, the previous gen red has single ring integrated to the powermeter, but you are absolutely correct you could buy a 107 bcd pm and ring and that’s compatible with all road 8 bolt cranks

[@user-uy5yi4rx9k]

Most excellent video Waz. 👏. Your pace and delivery were spot on sir. I got all the info wanted and more in a nice, watchable, 8mins. I've seen other presentations (well one so far) and whilst detailed, yours was like a finger of fudge ...just enough to give a bike a treat 😊😊😊😊

[@algmusicuk]

much better review than gcn

[@Weisser.Teufel]

GCN's is a commercial, not a review.

[@_msc-ds9sj]

Missing different cassette options :-(

[@alanhill7965]

Great review Warren very informative

[@SenorGreenbean-ti4xq]

Oh yes, working at a bike shop. I get it half off. Still too much money though. 😂

[@did4h2k]

this groupset costs 4x my bike - thats the real problem with it

[@Boss-dr2zk]

And 8x mine, on which I have only lost 2 street races so far 😂

[@allangomsen]

i get the derailleur price, but that much for a casette holy shit

[@br5380]

32mm internal rim? My MTB's are all 30mm internal with 2.4 tyres while my gravel has 25mm internal and a 50mm tyre - what tyre width is the test bike running?

[@bikeradar]

Hey there, yes those rims are incredibly wide! The tyres are 45mm Goodyear XPLR inter. Thanks for watching - Warren

[@br5380]

@@bikeradar only 45’s, interesting

[@buckroger6456]

The wider rims means the tire has more air volume, which in turns means less air pressure. All that helps to give the bike a smoother ride and puts your side knobs more in contact with the ground.

[@mrvwbug4423]

@@buckroger6456 flatter profile, which means slower rolling and the bike doesn't want to lean over. I hate 35mm rims on MTBs, they just plow into corners rather than lean over nicely. 30mm is the sweet spot for most MTB tires, 35mm is for 2.6s and plus tires.

[@buckroger6456]

@@mrvwbug4423 100% agree about the rim width. I run wide rims on my hardtail, but I also run 2.6 tires and love em, so much cornering grip. I will say that some tires run more round or flat compared to others. I know maxxis highroller 2s run more flat profile, while DHR 2s are more round.

[@perlund100]

What about the chainline? The biggest and smallest gear must ride like s….

[@grvl307]

The old model powermeter and chainring aren't one part. At least. Not the picture you're showing. The SRAM red road groupset has an integrated chainring/powermeter setup. The xplr doesn't.

[@dirtandhappiness2023]

For this amount of money, the new TRP & Classified 2x system is waay better. You can get the wider range, finer gearsteps and smooth shifting without all the cost of this setup. Even just using the Classified wheelset with your standard GRX setup is a better option. I love SRAM's innovation here, but the cost is crazy, and you still don't get sufficient range out of this setup.

[@mrvwbug4423]

Depends on what you're riding. For more technical gravel riding where you're encroaching on XC MTB territory, the 1x is probably going to be preferable

[@mfa81]

You must have ridden both to know which one is better

[@dirtandhappiness2023]

@@mfa81 I've ridden thousands of miles of gravel of all types. I have a pretty keen eye for the application of technology in this area. My reasons for saying the TRP is better is as follows: a wider total gear range (530% vs 460%), it offers finer gear steps over the entire range, it doesn't require a new UDH compatible frame, it allows for quicker jumps in fast-changing terrain, and TRP brakes generally work better than SRAM brakes. All that for less cost.

[@pin0teres]

They keep improving derailleurs when the worst part of their groupsets are brakes, and they are the reason I would be reluctant to choose Sram ever again. I have an old enduro with Sram Guide and a gravel with Rival AXS. Both quickly develop squeaking after a servicing, which I have to do regularly because they also quickly develop need for bleeding. My 10yo bike with Shimano M7000 did more miles then both of my Sram bikes, brakes gets bleeding whenever bike is in service for some other reason, not because they require it, they get it much less frequently than Sram brakes, they work fine, and never developed a squeak. Previously I also had Shimano brakes, and I do not recall having any problems with them.

[@keinpietz7697]

100000% this, will never consider SRAM until they drop the dot fluid nonsense.

[@mfa81]

The new red brakes are a lot better than any previous drop bar brakeset from sram

[@barrowsworm1226]

Actually, the new Red brakes are fantastic. I have been on Shimano for decades, and now that the brakes are sorted, I am shifting to Red XPLR for my new bike build for fast gravel riding and racing.

[@GNX157]

So on this setup, how do you check derailleur alignment, and better yet, how do you adjust it? We can’t assume it will be spot on either. After all, they can’t even get brake caliper flat mounts right, or bb shells and faces as they should be. Is it because it’s mounted right to the axle centerline and not the frame, that no misalignment will ever happen?

[@mfa81]

You bolt the RD to the rear axle not the frame itself, there is also a plastic washer that might take care of small frame alignment issues, so seems like the fact it’s threaded to the rear axle it would take care of it

[@NotingIsWhatItSeems]

You say you cant use other cassetes because of no limit screw, but then you say you can use eagle like 2 sentences later. Wich is true?

[@mrvwbug4423]

Only SRAM T-type cassettes can be used. So basically Red XPLR, GX, XO and XX T-type are your options.

[@mfa81]

⁠no they are not, xplr 10-46 is the only compatible cassette with the new 13 speed xplr rd

[@vbnxt]

what tires are you running?

[@RomanoCortesJorge]

The new gravel-specific group set and wheel set from Sram is innovative. But there's no backward compatibility with previous bicycles and tires and there is no cross compatibility with other group set brands. The new wheels from Zipp have a new extremely wide internal rim width that is incompatible with most existing tires. The new rear derailleur is incompatible with bike frames that aren't designed for their "universal" derailleur hanger. It seems like a very aggressive ploy to impose a new standard in cycling that excludes its competition, forcing bike and tire manufacturers to design bicycles that aren't compatible with Sram's competition. Sram is a mega conglomerate that has bought out several bike brands that includes Zipp wheels, Rockshox suspension, Hammerhead navigational computers, Quark power meters, Truvativ components, and Velocio apparel.

[@mfa81]

Agree to a point, but what has shimano done in the last several years? No grx 1x, no xtr di2…

[@randyhale4181]

I won't be buying one my pockets aren't that deep you can buy a whole bike for that money.😅

[@Yidus404]

But the best are the levers and the new brakes .. you would need to buy that as well 😅

[@jonathanzappala]

I’m confused about the compatibility with mtb or road cassettes, so you’re saying it’s compatible with 12 and 13 speed? Or are there now 13 speed cassettes in road sizes and eagle sizes?

[@bikeradar]

Hi there, the new full mount derailleur is designed specifically for the 13 speed 10-46 cassette. What you can do is mix the derailleur & cassette (as a pair) with anything AXS 12 speed- so that’s chainsets, shifters, & chains from existing mountain, road, and gravel Sram components. Thanks for watching! - Warren

[@globalmatador]

But it still needs an udh frame?

[@mfa81]

Yes, both the new red xplr and transmission need udh frame

[@Jean-jk4zv]

When he says full mount it’s UDH ?

[@brothatwasepic]

Hi guys I am having a hard time understanding why the road derailleur is different from the mountain bike one and which one is which. I am hoping for a nice derailleur that supports a huge climbing gear 40t or bigger

[@buckroger6456]

Most likely it's down to the clutch. Mtbs have a stiff clutch spring to help with chain tension. Yet road bikes don't need that.

[@brothatwasepic]

@buckroger6456 thanks man.

[@buckroger6456]

@brothatwasepic no problem. Also, most 1x12 Mtb gear sets have a great gear range of 10 tooth to up to a 52 tooth. I'm running sram 1x12 on my hybrid bike and it has a 10t - 42t for the rear with a 50t chainring. My Mtb has a 1x12 that is 10t to 52t and a 34t chainring. You'll have no problems finding a lot of great 1x12 setups.

[@Burroughsbikebuilds]

So… why not just get a XC bike at this point?

[@CycleXplorer]

May have to get a new frame now 🤣

[@CycleXplorer]

Seen the price, maybe not 💰

[@honestreviewer3283]

I would never spend my own money on this. Got a shop deal? Cost plus 10%? Team provide your bike? Sure. But I think it's nuts for an amateur racer to shell out for components this expensive. My Cervelo R5cx with Force AXS may only have 12 speeds, but it's more than enough.

[@j.k.b5014]

How can everything be compatible with the new 13 speed group, if all the other groupsets he mentioned are 12 speed?! Also with grx you can choose between manny different cassette options, use 105 12 speed shifters or the better gtx820 ones and use an 1x cranks you like. I fot the raceface next r carbon cranks with a garbaruk chainring

[@jochenkraus7016]

You need a new derailleur and I think that's were all the logic is while the shifters are only sending commands for up and down. I haven't seen a direct comparison yet.if they just made the cassette one gear wider then everything else could be the same.

[@burkaanc]

would like those wheels on my xc bike 😁 but as im not racing at those prices i would go for something more lazy like pinion

[@maxwellmcdowell3744]

I just don't get it.. .it's a road bike on a trail. Why not a mountain bike .Do ppl actually ride these on the road?

[@adamkerin4130]

Not quite, u can't put an eagle cassette on or road cassette, the new xplr mech must run the 10 to 44t due to no b tension etc

[@mrvwbug4423]

It sounds like you might be able to specify cassette in the AXS app and it will adjust accordingly

[@mfa81]

I doubt, i think the only option will be 10-46

[@adamkerin4130]

@@mrvwbug4423 it can't adjust for b tension which is needed if different cassette range, and sram have also been explicit that the next xplr mech can only be used with that cassette due to this

[@dalis994]

The price is ridiculous

[@brandonhoffman4712]

The cassette loses weight because they moved from 1 aluminum cog to 3. Less weight + less longevity = more money for SRAM.

[@Rekmeyata]

1x chains last about half as long as 2x and 3x systems due to the extreme angles the chain must go into, but that's the price you pay if you are a fast serious off-road rider on very technical terrain.

[@darthvirgin7157]

that argument doesn’t make sense. a 2x system still has extreme cross angle issues as well. riders still use the big chainring-6th cog (sometimes 7th or 8th) from the outside. the most a 1x system would do on a 13-spd cog would be 6 on either side.

[@GADonMc]

A 2x doesn’t have a cross chaining issue. You can cross chain, but you don’t have to.

[@Kazzoo1962]

Nice looking trail. You need some scythe wheels for some of the overgrown sections though.

[@chuckyfox9284]

My last force chain with force xplr group lastet 8k km before reaching 0,5%. Do you think it would have lastet 16k km on a 2x bike?

[@Rekmeyata]

@@GADonMc I didn't say a 2x had those issues, please reread my post.

[@LuciTulcea]

Going through a forest offroad on a road bike with bigger tyres, so called "gravel bike", looks like absolute shit!

[@rosomak8244]

There is no SH in SRAM.

[@rosomak8244]

Ridiculous pricing adequate to ridiculous technology. People don't get it: you can't get chicks with a bike.

[@hawgietonight]

Very trick. But still waiting on the more sensible stamped cassette and cable operated udh system.

[@petersouthernboy6327]

The stamped and pinned cassette will happen, but you’ll have to wait on Shimano for cable. Most serious racers are going with Di2 in GRX.

[@BogdanTimofte]

A groupupset for social media. Just don't take it out on the trail. When the stone is in the way, something will have to give the frame or the derailleur, both significantly more expensive than a $5-10 hanger. Even if money were not the problem, this new level of waste of resources promoted by these companies is appalling. Their greed and the ignorance of the buyers led to the fact that everything became disposable.

[@barrowsworm1226]

Your fears have proven not to be the case with Transmission on the MTB side.

[@sergejrasnamovic4195]

What frame is used in the video?

[@christopherrobinson7715]

New crux

[@casdavies]

it's a Crux

[@basengelblik5199]

That's a hookless rim. Problems for the rider and cheaper to produce. Only for real racers, everybody who values their wallet and health should avoid it.

[@frienduro24]

The issues are with road bikes running high pressures Hookless are designed for low pressure/tubeless. You are safe as long as you have a compatible tire and using air pressure under 70psi.

[@bretbender2992]

Wherever Warren is riding looks excellent! I'd try out those trails on my bike with 2x8 Claris with mechanical disc brakes lol.

[@Boss-dr2zk]

I'd bet your bike isnt even noticeably slower 😂

[@donoldduckben]

Say what you will, but creating a new deraileur hanger standard hoping frame manufacturers would adopt it and then releasing a product that only works on that standard just seems.. anti competitive

[@chuckyfox9284]

Anyone can use the standard.

[@mfa81]

Udh is free, you can also use a hanger. It was definitely a genius move but not anti competitive

[@jochenkraus7016]

I think there are cases when you can justify a new approach or incompatible standards. Here there seem to be advantages. If that's enough for you is your decision.

[@barrowsworm1226]

This approach has already worked for MTBs, all new MTB frames released have the UDH, and now, all new Gravel frames will have the UDH. This is a win for all riders, even if one does not choose to use the direct mount derailleur, UDH hangers are available in every bike shop, anywhere.

[@richardrr4220]

What a complete waste of money these groupsets and the others like them are - these groupsets neatly define the marketing BS of the cycling industry, and all that is wrong with the cycling industry, the profit margins on these 'higher end' groupsets and bikes is significant, you only have to look at the price gouging that has been going on with the massive percentage discounts now being offered on bikes across the board to see how greedy the industry got, and equally with money draining out of it now due to the economic downturn how the venture capitalists are selling off/shutting down bike brands. That aside great video presentation as ever by Warren

[@iyadkamhiyeh527]

And still there are some shills who'd love nothing more than defending bike manufacturers...

[@yukiko_5051]

Don't blame them, blame those so called cyclist that love spending their money over something stupid. "My hands are too weak to operate cable shifter! I need electronic! Boohoo!" 😂

[@iyadkamhiyeh527]

@@yukiko_5051 electronic shifting has to be one of the biggest marketing BS I've ever seen..

[@imola8]

Shimano is loosing ground to a point where i think they cannot compete anymore with the fast development of sram. Only huge bummer with sram is pricing. Love the new 13 speed groupset but would never ever buy this at current prices.

[@keinpietz7697]

Yes, because speed development is what most cyclists look for when they choose a bike or a groupset.

[@JogBird]

i think they realise that most ppl do not care about 13 spd... most ppl would be fine w 10sp with the proper spacing for the purpose

[@BoxCarBoy12]

Nope. I don't give a crap about 13 speed or any of the new tech that sram is trying to introduce, and i still hate 1x on any sort of drop bar bike. Add to that the fact that sram brakes use nasty DOT fluid for their brakes which still feel worse than shimano, and I'll still pick GRX Di2 over this any day. Newer isn't always better

[@mfa81]

Well shimano is losing ground at least in the oem market, you are the exception not the rule right now

[@keinpietz7697]

@@mfa81 can you share some data to support your claims?

[@GummeeH3]

1'm going to wait a few years before buying because SRAM uses their customers as beta testers

[@elviracatherinetalaoc2070]

I’m planning to buy just the front & rear derailleur and new cassette. Just to get the 36 teeth cassette.

[@MrBig617]

Can you use it on a mountain bike??

[@mrvwbug4423]

yes buy why would you? SRAM already makes 3 different levels of t-type drivetrains for MTBs

[@MrBig617]

@@mrvwbug4423 Lighter weight and a tighter cassette.

[@mfa81]

Also your chain dropping all over due to a weaker clutch

[@philipcaldwell3187]

Bring money

[@janchristensen5692]

🎉Jan

[@workshopninjathe1st]

My entire Ritchey Gravel bike with 2 carbon wheelset and Mechanical top end GRX 11 speed cost less than this groupset. I won’t be buying this crap

[@Matt-i5u]

That frame for concrete track 😮 taking risk😅

[@BrianAndTheBike]

since male karens over 50 Years Old started to be the main target bikes in general have lost their beauty, oldies just go your retirement or smth

[@dcv9460]

Hoping they will soon trickle it down to APEX which I hope I can afford 😉

[@robclarke5438]

its all to expensive

[@nicolasbozzo2364]

I bet many xc racers will use this cassette. Remains to be seen if it can be paired with the mtb dereaileur

[@mrvwbug4423]

Maybe amateurs with a lot of money to burn. Pros are going to run XX-SL t-type, even with the 52t cassette most of your world cup XC racers are still on 34 or 36t chainrings depending on how steep the climbs are on a particular course. World Cup XC courses these days are either straight up or straight down, not much flat pedaling.

[@mfa81]

Rd would have to be updated to 13 speed assuming they would work mechanically

[@docmccoy9813]

New SCAM product!

[@einundsiebenziger5488]

Of course don't buy it! It's expensive and shit-ugly!

[@hill160881]

lol what a joke. Wheeltop eds with a rotor 13s cassette and 12 speed chain. $1000 and will work on any bike even my older 135mm qr bikes. No new frame, no special tires, no special wheels, just install, tune and go ride. SRAM is a joke😂. I will have a 2x13 electronic groupset for only another $400 added to my wheeltop so ya.

[@Daniel-ynuhnunu]

Oi😊

[@silver_c1oud]

hate sram

[@RafaelGuzman-iq2zl]

You are right: don't buy this crap