The Caller on Dave Ramsey’s Viral 4% Rule Meltdown Speaks Out! (My Interview with Jay Disberger)

You may have seen Dave Ramsey's viral rant in response to a caller questioning his advice on 8% withdrawal rates but has an article on his website that praises the 4% rule. I interviewed Jay Disberger, from Kansas City who called into the Dave Ramsey Show and led to Ramsey's meltdown.
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[@daniellujan9129]

My problem is not with that Dave is wrong, it’s that he insulted George and threw him under the bus.

[@JayseabeeSTL]

Exactly, I hope that George get's out from under that awful "Ramsey Solutions" tag and does his own thing. George is the best host in the Ramsey suite of hosts and takes everything that DR does well without any of the negatives (in general). I'd love to see him go succeed on his own.

[@michaelschwartz7465]

It’s both. It’s unethical to suggest such an outlandish withdrawal rate to an audience that has otherwise grown to trust everything he says. Dave lauds the people who do these analyses as “idiots” yet his whole spiel and financial advice is targeted toward people who would otherwise be drowning in massive amounts of credit card debt (idiots).

[@edd06001]

Thats the cult that is Ramsey solutions. So rigid in his philosophy, he can never adopt or be influenced by others or learn from modern day ingenuity. He basically creates an army of foot soldiers that must align with 100% everything he says and believes, and anyone who sways from that must be tossed from the organization immediately. I won't be surprised if George is out on his own within the next few weeks, but it might be for the best for him, he has that millennial mentality to take some of Ramsey's viewers with him. Of all the things Ramsey wants to die on a hill on, its a withdrawal rate for retirement. Go figure....

[@Motoguy94]

My problem is that Dave basically said, no you can't tell people the truth.

[@tabs128]

Not to mention the name callings. Enough of him calling himself a Christian

[@scottthompson3493]

For a “Christian”, Dave Ramsey is a Prideful, Prideful, man.

[@tabs128]

I am convinced of this. I was a follower of Dave because of his secret sauce to getting out of debt and all but then realised that Dave is not the man he professes him to be- a Christian. So I'm very cautious in terms of what he say and remind myself not to imitate his way of character.

[@jordanperrault5039]

@@tabs128 Dave Ramsey just repackaged old financial knowledge and then marketed it properly to get it in people's hands.

[@USMC6976]

@@jordanperrault5039 Of course it is old. All of it is mentioned in the Old Testament of the Bible. But people still seem to ignore it until they are experiencing severe financial pain.

[@aas55]

@@USMC6976yeah I’m sure actively managed index funds were in the Bible.

[@USMC6976]

@@aas55 Investing sure is. Did you ever read the Bible? Do you remember the parable about the talents?

[@donnahampton3632]

My only problem is how Dave cut down George Kamel on the air. Leaders should not do that.

[@aightm8]

Spreading a message to potentially millions of people that will make them broke in retirement is the bigger issue.

[@jmorris023]

Ramsey's a mean old bastard if you cross him.

[@hopefilledfinancial]

Thank you so much for inviting me on your show. It was a true blessing to talk about this very important topic with you!

[@fuzzyelm1]

You are just another fraud ! Dave was correct we have proven it

[@DavidMcKnight]

You are so welcome. This was a very important discussion and you were terrific.

[@derekpaul2604]

Thank you Jay! You gained my follow!

[@rnt45t1]

Enjoyed the call and your response video. I feel like I’ll never have the same kind of problem, given how the world is going, but still enjoyed the content.

[@ltmsimply]

You remind me of myself when I called them live in 2015 .. I don’t invest S&P and bonds so 8% withdrawal makes sense for my personal investment as I been doing for the past 3 years and living on it..

[@douglasbrinkman5937]

things that will never happen: Dave says: "I was wrong, i'm sorry"

[@rnt45t1]

Like most evangelical Christian’s

[@greggpurviance7252]

​​@@rnt45t1that is totally incorrect & a tad judgmental for "most Christians" Ramsey of course never is wrong

[@danielfurr7356]

@@rnt45t1 No, just like most people. I'm not Christian, but that's a silly thing to say.

[@paulbailey4843]

Unfortunately Dave’s hubris is his undoing. He believes his intelligence is as great as his bluster.

[@DavidMcKnight]

#hubris

[@Riverbend1752]

I feel like it's a matter of time until someone calls into the show having taken an 8% withdrawal rate and is now out of money. Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if it's already happened and just never makes it through the call screening (or it did and I don't follow the show so don't know about it).

[@JDJeanMichel]

I have a feeling he wouldn't admit fault even then. He'd just make it the caller's problem. "I said invest in GOOD mutual funds. All the good mutual funds get 12%. Obviously you didn't invest in the good mutual funds. If you got 12%, then you'd be able to withdraw 8% and grow 4% to counter inflation. You know, Rachael, these people call in saying that they took my advice, but they didn't even listen right to the first step!" Or something like that. He'll NEVER allow himself to be wrong. I'd hope he'd at least lose a couple nights of sleep over it, but somehow I have a feeling he won't.

[@Norm475]

I am 81 YO and Dave is so wrong on the withdrawal of 8%. I have been in the market for about 60 years, and during that time I have had several years where my portfolio has dropped 50%. I don't know how he can guarantee a person can get a 12% return annually. When the stock market crashed in 1929 it took about 25 years for it to recover.

[@ColinJ388]

Ive been a Dave follower for many years, but this one struck a nerve with me. Worst is, he will never say out loud that he is just flat out wrong.. and it really will hurt someone later on who will run out of money because "Dave said 12-4=8 so I would be ok to take 8%"

[@ordinaryhuman5645]

bruh, just get 12%. don't make it more complicated than it needs to be.

[@whatsupwithsteve]

@@ordinaryhuman5645 Find an average return of 12%....I'll wait.

[@stemikger]

Jay did a great job with that call and Dave never lets facts get in the way with his opinion. I used to love Dave, but let's be real, he's an ego maniac and a bully. It's clear as day. A while ago, a nice man had the nerve to debate Dave on index funds and he presented his case with facts and was very respectful. Dave was such a jerk to this guy and showed me how mean spirited he was when someone didn't agree with him.

[@iosgaming2824]

Very new spirited, he could’ve communicated as well that he didn’t agree with George said simply by correcting him with what he thought was the truth

[@bipi4363]

He only acts this way with men. I once heard a caller call in and tell the story how his wife hid money and filled out credit cards in the husband's name, unbeknownst to him. The husband accused her of stealing, but dave said she didn't do it on purpose. No yelling, no calling her stupid, no belittling. WTH!!! 🤯🤯🤯

[@ttrjw]

Ramsey is excellent for getting people out of debt but awful for investing.

[@paulajeffrey6706]

He can't be that bad as he made it back from less than nothing. Surely you would take 8% on the good years and less on the bad years. £80000 per year is way more than you need to live on. 28:51

[@patricksimon8943]

@@ttrjwYou hit the nail on the head!!!

[@rocksolid6494]

Someone should tell Dave that Pride is one of the seven deadly sins.

[@douglasbrinkman5937]

Dave is quiet comfortable taking large risks with your money.

[@Twitter_Posts]

Jay Disberger is very smart and articulate

[@hopefilledfinancial]

Thank you!

[@TheFinancialAdvocacyPodcast]

He did a great job! Very astute. I was pleasantly surprised. His clients are lucky to have him.

[@DavidMcKnight]

He really did great. Sharp kid.

[@NoName-hs3sf]

I honestly think Dave is losing it a little bit. He tends to forget things and when does misspeak he will never admit he is wrong. He will always say buy mutual funds never will say buy etfs unless you need the money short term which makes no sense ,all through etfs are 98 percent better than mutual funds.

[@CaToRi-]

Does he ever recommended an specific mutual fund?

[@SharonR1105]

It is very obvious Dave is losing it.

[@Heyu7her3]

ooh, cognitive decline... allegedly

[@douglasbrinkman5937]

Dave is a bully, and wrong.

[@kevinhuff]

A dogmatic percentage withdrawal is silly. Your safe withdrawal rate will vary depending depending on the market each year. What is needed in retirement is a zero based budget similar to the budget you used to get out of debt. Add extra as the market allows.

[@anishnewton100]

This is the most realistic and sensible comment I've read in regards to this topic. 👏 👏

[@corychecketts]

Thanks for this interview. I appreciate Jay's tenacity to call in to ask Dave a question that he knew would be divisive. Dave's reaction about George left an awful taste in my mouth. I think the Ramsey Show is at its best when George and Rachel host. They seem to have the most realistic approach to building wealth.

[@wackzingo]

There are two things at play with Dave. The first is obvious, he's just arrogant and truly believes he knows everything. The second is less obvious and that is branding consistency. His entire model is built on follow his plan exactly which is why you need his curriculum. If you want to teach his course or work with him everything must be done exactly the way he prescribes. If he allows room for people to deviate it hurts the branding and advice isn't consistent and at some point it becomes a generic process like "value investing" which you can't even define. It's why he will give the same advice no matter how stupid an illogical or even hurtful to the individual. He is wealthy because he's incredible at sales and branding not a smart investor.

[@RJweblink]

Because people who are broke and "normal" desperately needs a wake up call, you cannot approach it in a diplomatic manner besides those who realized they are broke and normal and followed Dave's rule have made terrific progress financially whilst those who makes judgement and proclaimed Dave is arrogant are still drowning in debt.

[@danle4261]

Jay is a well spoken young man. I don’t know his age, I’m 60 and looking back in time, I don’t think I was financial educated like Jay.

[@laneyluneva]

The anger Dave had was uncalled for, 100%. He has said over and over, take his getting out of debt advice, but not necessarily investing advice. He needs to respect his own statements. And I think it was actually a good thing he wasn't the co-host. I think that would have been terrible.

[@CaToRi-]

I only know a little little bit about finances and when I heard Dave talking about 8% and the 12% return my mind said “ I don’t know why but 8% sounds too much”

[@ChrisCardenDrums]

I like what Dave does, I do, but his message is really for people who are starting from nothing. Paycheck to paycheck, 5 credit cards, a year worth of their salary in their garage etc. Once you get past his baby step 3, his plan kinda falls apart.

[@miked412]

A little surprised at the caller's (Jay) optimism. Suggesting that Dave Ramsey would listen to anything evidence based, that isn't first and foremost "his" idea was giving *a lot* of credit!

[@SqueakySinger]

I honestly am kind of getting the vibe that he planned it for clout to start garnering his own financial following… (I’m not saying that Dave Ramsey is right, just that I don’t believe Jay wanted or thought he could “gently guide” Dave through the discussion) 🤷🏼‍♀️

[@tashaedwards]

31:00 Yes! After ruthlessly working on baby step 2 for months, I feel more and more unsafe with the $1000 emergency fund. I’ve paid almost 10k to debt but if my car breaks down, I can’t get it fixed with $1000. I’m slowing down my snow ball to put way more in my emergency fund, because I also lost motivation for paying large sums to debt knowing I have nothing put aside for me.

[@jordanperrault5039]

Good idea. Definitely need to adjust to make your own decisions. The baby steps are a guide not absolute rules

[@joycef8443]

You are right. Get your emergency fund beefed up while paying your minimums on debt. After that, hit those debts HARD!

[@meljordan220]

I don't think Dave Ramsey takes into consideration the cost of inflation with that $1,000 emergency fund nor all the crazy stuff that's happening now that has driven the cost of everything up. I say 3:00 to 6 months emergency fund and then go crazy on your debt snowball. I went through the financial coaching class as well. I don't believe everything he says. It's like watermelon with seeds, you spit the seeds out. Becoming debt-free is still a good idea but how you get there might need to be tweaked individually depending on your circumstances. I say go for it

[@nomadic_orthodox]

The 1000$ emergency fund is outdated and he refuses to adapt it to the 21st century.

[@gravelswitch9697]

If your mission is to change Dave’s mind on something, let me go ahead and steal your hope while saving you time.

[@rocklinman]

Dave Ramsey is a charismatic salesman and businessman and enormously successful. That is obvious from his enormous networth. To me he's highly overrated. His debt advice is obvious. His investment advice is simply bad. I do love his faith and emphasis on giving back. He's basically a good man who is extremely set in his ways and very sensitive to criticism.

[@amireallythatgrumpy6508]

His advice on debt may be obvious to people with a 50+ IQ but the average IQ in the USA is 25.

[@anisenkrill6179]

Dave is starting to realize the returns on his ego investment. As much good as he has done for millions of people, nobody is right 100% of the time. It is extremely hard to divest of one's hubris, and this incident is a great example. Great interview.

[@danspencer4235]

If you need an 8% withdrawal to cover your living expenses, then the market has a down year, how do you suddenly cut your living expenses to 3% of your nest egg? There is no ABSOLUTELY SAFE withdrawal rate. It all depends on the economic environment and the -assumptions that you make. I wish you all well.

[@SolvingChaos]

I took FCMT. I don't even use Dave Ramsey name in much of what I do now. I focus on being a better investor and a better coach. Love what Jay did. Hopefully more people will question everyone (not just Dave Ramsey). Many gurus including Warren Buffett has been wrong on Bitcoin.

[@ghfan2011]

Unfortunately I doubt it will make much difference. Dave has been flying off the handle for years calling people morons and absolutely asinine if they don’t worship his every word. He tends to just hang up on people if they challenge him. Every so often he has a temper tantrum like this one that gains traction for a bit but then it dissipates.

[@BirdDogey1]

Where does DR come up with the 12 % return?

[@Gioli565]

Yes, Dave has crazy retirement assumptions. His ego is too fragile to admit it. He’s not very bright compared to George kamel and I feel bad for George. I hope he jumps ship and does his own thing.

[@May-qb3vx]

He needs to transition to no longer being the head of Ramsey. Let it go to Rachel already. She’s got a more level head and is willing to listen and engage in conversation. She’s the only one that has been able to stand up to her dad because of who she is but it’s too bad that he still can’t hush up and let his daughter speak

[@lala88885]

Hey you did a great job on the call and brought awareness. Ramsey is not always right and should be questioned by his audience

[@hopefilledfinancial]

Thank you!

[@user-vl1tc5jo4c]

I know Jay feels bad about how the interaction went but it is important to remember you can’t control other peoples responses

[@hopefilledfinancial]

All I get to control is my action, you are right. I could have done a better job on my end to make a blow-up less likely, but I guess I tired my best. I know it is also important that I remember that I cannot change Dave. Only Dave can change Dave. I just hoped that the right questions could start that as an outside influence. Thank you for the reassurance. I am working on separating my boundaries from this event now as I have really done all that I felt compelled to do. I cannot feel guilty for the failed result as that is outside my boundaries. What is done is done. I must move forward. This topic is no less important. I think it took me about 2 to 3 weeks to start sleeping normally again. I can blame some of that on my son going through the two-year sleep regression. That was rough...

[@ujoel2]

The big question is whether Dave will have the humility to go back on and admit he was wrong in his math or in his attitude... my money is on his ego not allowing him to and him just ignoring it... or even doubling down.

[@barbara4329]

I don’t think we should hold our breath on that. Quite disappointing, actually. He’s not wanting to damage his brand without realizing that in some respects, he already has. Integrity is one of the things he claims to hold dear.

[@LifeBeautifulMess]

As the saying goes when someone reveals who they are, believe them. I noticed who Dave really was years ago, why because he told us over and over. I don’t waste my energy on Dave and am only watching this because I like you.

[@lolo7943]

🎯🎯🎯

[@Joce123]

I selectively listing to Ramsey Solutions. I am a big fan of Ken Dr. John and George. I am grateful for many of the callers sharing because of the things that we all have in common..inflation..or clever solutions..

[@joycef8443]

I have Dave on my “do.not recommend ” list for You Tube. Cannot stomach D.R.

[@seriousfaith]

I gotta wonder if George will be the latest Ramsey personality to vanish into the ether…

[@LifeBeautifulMess]

Why does anyone’s mind need changed? If people blindly listen to Dave, a teacher, politician, preacher, etc…..the blame is on them for being lazy minded.

[@pastdue7170]

I don't think it is always as simple as that. I recall when I had low self esteem that was put into me at a young age that it took me being around good people and many years to see my worth. Everyone's capacity for something is not the same. If your 100% active mind is 50% of mine then you might not find the answer. I guess a better example is a spotter at the gym you can't get stronger by staying in one weight class, but having a spotter allows you to more easily go up. Humans really need others to help.

[@numbskullranch]

I just have to wonder what planet Mr. Ramsey lives on in order to seemingly have no concept of sequence of returns risk. Really baffles me.

[@createone100]

Completely agree, it should be so obvious.

[@douglasbrinkman5937]

it's a lot easier to control your spending than to take increasing risk to try to get more returns.

[@Juantobiasarango]

It blowed out because people loves when Dave is wrong. 😅

[@cheerdad]

Great interview. I found it very informative and useful.

[@BrunoAlves-uy3sl]

What a brave guy. Learning a lot from this conversation.

[@andrewdiamond2697]

Jay Disberger's take is remarkabley good. His clarity and motivation starting at 12:30 is pure gold. I'm not locked in on 4%, but I am of the opinion that 5% works if you expect a shorter retirement (retiring at age 65+). 4% is more for age 55+. 3% if under age 55....so when talking about FIRE folks in their 30s....3% makes a ton of sense.

[@Warrenmitchum]

Yup but don’t limit yourself. If your nest egg is around 2.8 million then you could take 8% in your 30s and be ok.

[@andrewdiamond2697]

@@Warrenmitchum Not really. First of all, 8% of $2.8mm is $224k a year. Peal off that much annually, and the overwhelming odds are you will run out of money, unless you bought Bitcoin 12 years ago at $1 per coin or TSLA stock 12 years ago at $40/share.

[@Warrenmitchum]

@@andrewdiamond2697 if your egg grew by 12% and inflation averages 4% then take out 8% leave 4% to account for inflation. It’s simple math and the guy don’t understand cus of the risk. Pro lee is even after Dave said if the market grows by 10% then take out 6% and still leave the 4% for inflation. Your egg is growing and you won’t run out of money. Your o my taking from the growth, not the best egg itself.

[@andrewdiamond2697]

@@Warrenmitchum Great, as long as you take from the growth minus inflation, which, BTW is rarely 8%. AND you put money back in during years you lose. AND you never take more due to inflation. I've been in the stock market for 40 years. I have yet to meet somebody that earns a consistent 12%. If I could earn a consistent 12%, I'd be retired already.

[@Warrenmitchum]

@@andrewdiamond2697 Rachel his daughter asked what if it’s 10% growth? He said the 10 minus 4 gives you 6%. This happened during the call and the caller ignored it. To his own detriment.

[@eric_a_bruns]

Great discussion David. Enjoyed hearing Jay’s side of the story. Appreciate your work.

[@createone100]

All narcissists explode in anger when confronted with their stupid mistakes. Dave is a narcissist, at least in his public persona. That is pretty clear.

[@amireallythatgrumpy6508]

All Americans are.

[@abrahams.lincoln6749]

Ramsey is actually destroying their retirement dreams. Sad but true. 🇺🇸

[@extremecarpetcleaning-wvwi86]

If you always did 12 percent every year then yes 8 percent rule works. Problem is most people only get a 8 percent return.

[@basicboomer519]

Ya, you’re first year the stock market tanks from 1m to 900k and you take 8%. Then you have just a bit over 800k left

[@Unstottsable]

Thank you for putting this together David!

[@DavidMcKnight]

You’re welcome!

[@rickdunn3883]

Amazing. I have serious doubts about Dave. Anyone that studies Personal Finance ... will.

[@rdmineer1]

A lot of Dave's positions, emergency fund, budget, pay off debt and save for retirement, are correct. But the hundreds of millions and big truck he brags about seem to have gone to his head. From that point of view, Dave has become arrogant, self-righteous and judgemental. He cannot be wrong. He sees everyone through a certain stereotype, much like politicians do. Doesn't apply universally. Some of his views don't work for average people in real world situations.

[@jpablo7879]

As a Ramsey listener the part that is being missed here why he doesn't like to change his views is that his advise is for a very specific demographic. It is for people that are completely clueless, like I was and get them to wake up and be aware and put them into the path to finding put how things work. Once you start to educate yourself you fi d yourself using the Ramsey advise as a guidelines vs a set on stone thing.

[@_MountainMan]

If that were the case, Dave is either too dumb and clueless to see why he is wrong about the 4% rule. Or he is too out of touch with reality and the everyday person that he should not be giving financial advice

[@QueensWino]

Dave's "flying monkeys" comment had me beside myself with laughter and I particularly enjoyed seeing Jay's reaction - the same as mine - in the video he posted on his channel which shows his reactions to Dave's rants. My sides were hurting! That was memorable.

[@eandrgoodwin]

I’ve based my retirement plans on a 2-3% withdrawal rate.

[@TheBobbyBrown22]

Great interview! Is the original video still on the Ramsey channel or did he take it down? Wasn’t able to find it

[@itsme1232620]

Just want to say my employer doesn’t do a match but does contribute 10% a year regardless of my contributions. So I’m in a similar position.

[@NWcpl]

Dave will never show his portfolio to us nor how he says he gets 12%+ every year in index funds. Which isn't true consistently! Want us to believe you Dave? Proof is in the pudding. All other YT and finance folks are very open what they invest in and their actual returns, But not Dave. What is he hiding. truth or just boasting how rich he really is! or isn't making year to year! 3% to 4% is Truley sustainable retirement withdrawal income on your investments.

[@Galworld761]

He doesn’t use index funds. He uses growth mutual funds which are volatile. Due to his wealth, he can withstand the volatility. Investment advice does not scale.

[@kennymcfarland9895]

Great interview....Jay seems very sharp! I think it was a great approach he took to highlight a subject that is clearly very important to him. And a 200% employer match....that would be somethin!!

[@DavidMcKnight]

That would be an amazing match!!

[@bridgetlove1884]

I am another lucky employee, my employer gives an automatic 4% and another 5% matching amount. So for 5%, I get 9%. I have incrementally increased my own contribution slowly through the years.

[@abrahams.lincoln6749]

This guest is very intelligent. 🇺🇸

[@abrahams.lincoln6749]

Great interview. Thanks. 👍👍

[@bigpoppa851]

I'm guessing the vast majority of Dave's audience, if they follow his program, are between baby step 2 and 3. In other words, IMO, he could save a lot of face by just admitting that he doesn't consider the lack of linearity in inflation or returns in these goals. I love Dave but this is turning into an even bigger black eye than his timeshare lawsuit.

[@ChristoherWGray]

Tome share Exit team He took advantage of his sheeple with that grift

[@amireallythatgrumpy6508]

Not really. His sheeple had already lost their money by that point. It was just a question of whether it went to Timeshare Exit team or the timeshare companies@@ChristoherWGray

[@gaddylh]

Dave Ramsey has helped millions of people and is a voice of financial common sense. However this shows that you cannot blindly follow someone’s advice. Have been confused about the 8% versus 4% withdrawal rates. Watched a few videos that opened my eyes. Hopefully Dave will be opened minded enough to have a conversation with you or maybe the Money Guys who I have been gravitating towards their advice in recent years.

[@heppesg]

Talking around the real issue. It was said earlier, withdraw 8% on good years, switch to 4 or EVEN 3% on off years, even make it automatic! The assumption is that if 95% of the people make it thru their journey to Baby Step 7, they will have garnered enough expertise and awareness to be able to easily tweak their assumptions with ease and will not be left flat footed.

[@georgesontag2192]

I believe this topic was back checked and if you start in 2001, taking 8%, your out of money in 2011. This mathmatical proof should be published on youtube.

[@pojack9979]

Dave’s been winding down for some time. When Rachel takes over 100%, I wonder if she’s going to tweak any of Dave’s principles.

[@belangp]

Dave Ramsey is not going to change his mind. He will defend his position to his grave.

[@Laurar35]

Ive followed Ramsey for years, and he motivated me to be debt free and mortgage free. With that being said, no one’s financial path is the same. His 8% math would have worked in a perfect world. But we all know invested money in the market is never perfect. So i agree he is very wrong to influence people that a 8% is a hard line withdrawal rate. If i pulled 8% a yr of my portfolio, id be out of money in less that 12 yrs

[@toeknee5565]

That's impossible. That would assume that the remainder that's left in your portfolio isn't gaining any interest, which it always will.

[@silver6054]

@@toeknee5565 ? 8% (or any X%) usually means take that percent the first year and each year take the same amount, adjusted for inflation (so NOT X% of the remaining portfolio) It's quite easy to run out of money if the rate is too large. So as a silly example, say I have $1M and my withdrawal rate is 60%. So the first year I withdraw $600K. Sure,the remaining $400K generates some interest but then when I try to withdraw an inflation adjusted $600K I am out of money by year 2.

[@jordanperrault5039]

​@toeknee5565 you forget the downs in the market as well as taxes and fees.

[@jordanperrault5039]

Also inflation

[@toeknee5565]

@@jordanperrault5039 I'm having a hard time understanding that. When has the market ever not gained any points across an 12 year span. If you pull 8% of anything over a span of 12 years that would mean that at the end of the 12 years you've pulled 96% of it. But that's assuming that it literally never gains a single cent in that 12 years. That's why that doesn't make sense

[@jmnthe3rd]

Dave also blows up about index funds, bond investing, traditional retirement accounts, and I'm sure other staples of investing and retirement. He's a self-proclaimed expert with no credentials. He is a salesman. He sells entertainment and books. He promises his listeners they can all become wealthy. He convinces his listeners to invest in load stock funds. He conveniently plays dumb on any math that might dissuade a person from doing so.

[@whatsupwithsteve]

You gotta know when to use your own judgement. Lots of people followed Jim Jones blindly and look what happened to them. Same thing with thinking an 8% withdrawal rate is sustainable,

[@YanilleCastillo-sf4vb]

I really appreciate his honor and his transparency 🙏♥️

[@crow-vz5lx]

I used to be a big Dave Ramsey fanatic. Buuut I've opened my mind to a few other channels. I never liked the 1000 emergency fund cYse it never helps. Nowadays 1 k will not help with anything. I've run into two major emergencies one cost 2400. The other was over 3k ... Just to cover it

[@bljohnson99]

I heard DR say that he was in business to make a profit from the attendees of his events. I believe this to be true for his whole business. If he were to embrace the 4% rule, it would make annuities appear viable or even preferable, and he could never allow that idea to spread. He must make his recommendations mathematically superior. I honestly believe that is his motivation behind the simplistic formula 12%-4%=8%

[@DavidMcKnight]

No doubt he’s driven by the profit motive. Which is fine. So long as he’s putting out a good product.

[@douglasbrinkman5937]

Dave is has gotten very rich on the backs of poor folks.

[@s7efen805]

4% doesnt really work in favor of annuities because a 4% SWR ends up with way more money in most scenarios and allows for increased spending... most of the time.

[@davidcopeland2896]

Obviously the 4 % rule should change with the times. When you can get over 5% on cash you can't compare your returns when you use to get 0.5% on your cash.

[@breathetyb8467]

I always thought it was Dave's front load high fee mutual funds that require he have this view on 12% linear returns

[@Joce123]

DR is the reason that I examine financial things. Good springboard for thought.I actually decided to pay off my secured debt..my truck.. because if I pay it off I can put the vehicle in storage..save $150 mo on insurance ..take the bus /car pool..if I have an emergency ..I can always pay unsecured debt down slowly without possibly having my vehicle repossed..I owe $11,000 @3.99% on my truck.....and $11,000 on 4 different 0 % interest credit cards.

[@private464]

Cool that you reached out to him. I am not going to listen to 45 minutes right now. Maybe later. Under 20 would be a lot easier to watch. If our savings investments are large enough, then 3% is fine. Dave wants to give hope to people to START to really put 15% in investments and build a financial future.

[@rnt45t1]

Ramsey isn’t very good at much else beyond yelling people into budgeting.

[@bretgalloway1686]

I believe Dave is sticking to this 8% rule for 2 reasons: #1- He's stubborn, and can't omit he's wrong. #2- It directly ties into this debt philosophy; he's doubting down on being debt-free as the #1 key by underemphasizing retirement.

[@jabow1878]

Dave’s gut reaction was strong. He, obviously, has thought out baby steps 1-4. After that there isn’t a whole lot of talk/information. Once he hit a million, it is up in the air. Personally, I feel the last steps need some real exploration. I did not agree, at all, with the “wealth advisor” I was lead to. I see how Dave gets 10-12% because that advisor was very risky….

[@gobot4455]

Personal finance is a funny thing. My opinion is if you believe the 4 withdrawal rate fits your situation and it helps you sleep, use that. If you believe the 8% is viable, just keep in mind that in down years, you will need to find alternate means to finance your retirement. Both can be done, but you need to be sure of it in your own mind. Ramsey was wrong in his reaction but his general premise is not wrong for some people. There is no one "shoe" that fits all in the field.

[@jordanperrault5039]

We all should plan to only get 4% but do everything we can to do be able to take more

[@robdupree5687]

Can someone post the link of the viral video?

[@jamesmorris913]

Well..TECHNICALLY, Ramsey is correct. If you only took 8% from a portfolio, you would literally never run the balance to zero. HOWEVER..your starting portfolio balance would have to be so GIGANTIC, in relation to your necessary spending requirements..so that, during negative return years, you would have enough set-aside in cash from when you took an 8% withdrawl during positive return years..theoretically, that could result in a "perpetual portfolio". However..the vast majority of people will NEVER accumulate a portfolio of that size.

[@DavidMcKnight]

The calculation is supposed to be based off the day-1 retirement balance, not the ongoing balance.

[@loveandjoy810]

Dave is mostly right on debt and wrong on everything else. He’s a debt guy only. He’s not a CFP. He’s a former real estate guy. That’s his whole credentials. Be careful whose advice you buy.

[@fsm12385]

Tuna is cheaper than cat food

[@joshgullicksrud3444]

Dave Ramsey is a tool. Specifically a hammer and he treats every problem like a nail. 97 percent of people are seeking a “guru.” He basically runs his business through the church- brilliant! Instant credibility and to a target market that is conditioned not to question, never mind to think critically. Yet 80 percent of what he preaches is valuable, kind of like the church. Fair enough?

[@amireallythatgrumpy6508]

The number of Americans who are capable of critical thought is exactly zero.

[@ChrisAbeytaTV]

Love this guy!!!

[@darlayjones669]

In fact, if you decide to retire overseas, such as Thailand, the Philippines, South Africa, Panama, or Costa Rica, you don't need all the millions of $ they're all talking about

[@fwsalgado]

Hello, at 26:21 min you said his listeners believe they'll get 12% year after year. This isn't true. This is the average of the S&P500 over the last 70 years. During the call Rachel asked what if the ROR is 10% he said leave 4 take out 6. You also said they are only going to save about half as much as they really should save. As a follower of the baby steps one would invest 15% and once your mortgage is paid off the plan would be to invest as much as possible/maxing it out. Great conversation just wanted to point this out.

[@barbsinclair7352]

Never have been a fan of his, and really not now, going on percentages for retirement is illogical anyway, 4% for one might be fine, 6% for another, it's such a personal thing, you have to know each and every ones situation to predict how much they can take out and still make it last.

[@OShackHennessy]

The % rules aren’t meant to address how much you need in retirement it’s about how long can you sustain a withdrawal on whatever number you have invested.

[@craigholland2274]

Dave is never going to admit he's wrong and he ll ignore it til it goes away. He's too arrogant for any discourse.

[@NotMuchHere]

If you can make it on 3 %. especially at the start ... you would have more at the end ... where you might need the 5-8%

[@jonathag2000]

Dave has been preaching the SAME numbers for decades. The reason he cannot change his tune on anything is because of his PRIDE. You have to concede when you're wrong and he simply can't. Huge flaw with Dave.

[@EnArrozYHabichuelas]

Dave is a bully

[@jmorris023]

It's very difficult to sell financial advice that is boring, you need to be on the edge enough to make crazy statements like "you'll have $5 million in 20 years if you don't buy a new car".

[@PSmith-ie9jx]

I used to enjoy listening to the DR podcast. But for several months, I've heard too many angry rants where he's just a bully who's time has run out. He is becoming unhinged and his mini-me hosts aren't allowed independent thought. Even Ken who I used to like, has become generally rude. Common sense and living below your means will never go out of style, but DR sure will.

[@cerbico12]

I think the problem with Dave is that he is too much of an optiimist which makes life more fun.

[@WarriorSidMentzer]

I thought putting cash in paper envelopes was the only way to go? Maybe in fantasy land...

[@matthewdorso4302]

I’m confused. If you have 1 Million in 3 paid for rental properties, and are charging $2500/month in rent for each one (on the low side), that’s $90,000/year which is 9%. Take 4% ($40,000) off for inflation, and you have 5%, but the property should appreciate at about the same rate of 4%. So wouldn’t it just be 9%? Can someone please explain what I’m missing?

[@OShackHennessy]

Taxes, business expenses, repairs? What landlord is making 100% profit?

[@jackarmstrong1838]

Warren Buffett operates buying stocks by using a Margin Of Safety, from Ben Grahams book. The problem with 8% withdrawl rate is that it essentially limits the margin of safety from your portfolio. I personally am not a fan of being fully invested in the stock market in retirement, with money you need to withdraw to bridge the short fall between your Social Security, any pension you might have, and your monthly expenses.