The case for Island Rail

[@mjbowser906]

This guy needs more subscribers! These videos are pure quality.

[@railroad9000]

I would love to see the RDC sets running again in North America and Canada! They have a certain appeal!

[@eugenetswong]

I agree. There is a certain charm. Unfortunately, I heard that they are no longer available, and that there are cheaper options.

[@princezsshorts3209]

I want it back so bad

[@Ben_Stewart]

It's just amazing how much rail was on the Saanich Peninsula alone. A lot of locals have no clue how Brentwood Bay, Keating, Saanichton, and Sidney benefitted from this.

[@MidnightVisions]

Unless the govt mandates the rail line to move cargo to take it off the roads, the line won't make enough money. Making Port Alberni an internodal port is the only hope to restore the line. This would help offload Vancouver traffick. The rail infrastructure all exists to do this, it just needs Port Alberni to get the show going.

[@wendyfriberg629]

The statement “The rail infrastructure all exists to do this” is somewhat misleading. Unfortunately, athough the rail bed still exists, the track condition has declined to the point where it will need to be completely rebuilt.

[@speakertwentytwo]

You are right - the main piece of infrastructure is the right of way, which is the most expensive, difficult and time consuming part of any railway project. Rebuilding the rails is definitely necessary. The ICF providing conservative estimates hasn't helped - it would cost over a billion but when the government is giving BC Ferries $500m to subsidize car travel, and pouring billions into the failed Site C Dam, it's easy to see that we have enough money.

[@eugenetswong]

@@wendyfriberg629 Will they have to dig out every single bit of ballast?

[@eugenetswong]

@@speakertwentytwo Don't forget the new tunnel. They are building 4 extra lanes. Does anybody know how much the 4 extra lanes cost?

[@wendyfriberg629]

@@eugenetswong within the City of Port Alberni city centre many ties are being replaced so that the local train run by the IHS for tourist purposes can even do a very short in town run. Certainly further out into the Beaufort area every single tie will need to be replaced never mind the condition of the Cameron Lake trestle.

[@SolidCold]

You sir just gained a subscriber, as a fan (but not an expert) of the E&N I found this video very good. Also rip Johnson Street bridge

[@ziggyflybone3]

Great vid! Please do a follow up once more news develops! Looking forward to more vids in the future

[@eugenetswong]

I agree. I hope that he provides a more nuanced perspective than just generic advocacy.

[@lostmoose9994]

How beautiful this would be for us seniors to take the train to see a Dr. in Nanaimo or Victoria 👍

[@limoseengoing329]

Based on what area was told the whole entire VIA rail thing was called the Malahat , 10:13 and pretty and putting together. Some money they said it wouldn't happen anyway. So unless a lot of people put some money together. Apparently they're gonna start tearing up track which really sucks cause. They could make some money if people paid to go. Use speeders chargef to use the track. The line to port alberni apparently does not get used anymore. So there could be something there based on what everybody says. And why not run the line to tofino? Lots can hapen?

[@Among_us3.0]

Sry rail link SVI? Not anytime soon bud

[@kenvandeburgt1232]

Why not run the line to Tofino? Its not even possible to build a safe road to Tofino; never mind a railroad.

[@FearableBucket]

wow! Nice video! Keep up the good work!! :D

[@kellmurphy1344]

We need to bring this back!

[@eugenetswong]

We need to organize our efforts, so that we can do this. Maybe we need to join Strong Town Nanaimo? I'm certified for project management, and would love to help organize. Thoughts?

[@kellmurphy1344]

@@eugenetswong how do we join that group?

[@eugenetswong]

@@kellmurphy1344 It's hard to explain in the KZbin comment section. You'll have to do a search for the group. I'll try to explain in a separate comment.

[@eugenetswong]

@@kellmurphy1344 Search for Strong Towns Nanaimo. Maybe search for "strong towns nanaimo events".

[@henkbarnard1553]

At least don't sell the right of way.

[@Themapleleaforever]

If that happend i'd lose my shit

[@bradsixpack]

well said!

[@NotSureJoeBauers]

Freight won't work for the E&N. If the line went to the container port in Nanaimo there could be some amount of trucks taken off the road but there are no rail links to the places where containers go. Best case scenario is they would have a tiny transload facility where the Roundhouse used to be. But there isn't enough land there to make a viable container transload. The customers bringing in containers already have them going on chassis and coming to their location. Its not going to be any cheaper to have them transloaded again. Freight worked when there was industry that was moving their goods over rail from here to there.

[@bcinspectorman]

The Roundhouse property has now been approved for housing by Victoria. So where is its terminus in Victoria?

[@NotSureJoeBauers]

@@bcinspectorman There isn't one. There are no areas along the E&N for a transload facility. Its just a 100 foot or narrower strip of lane. And now its got bus hubs, bike paths and walking trails along the stretches that could viably be used for commuter rail. The E&N is pretty hooped.

[@speakertwentytwo]

The final phase of the roundhouse project has actually been designed to accommodate a railway line right through the middle. So in theory, it's possible we could use the very end of the line adjacent to the BMW dealership as the final terminus. This was proposed in one of the reports I mentioned. It's also possible to use the BMW dealership as a hub for last mile freight delivery. The idea of putting things onto trucks from here is indeed not the most efficient, but if the deliveries were small and distributed among various businesses downtown, cargo bikes and small trucks would be very viable, keeping the impact minimal. All just ideas of course. There's been a lot of criticism about how there aren't any freight uses for the E&N - but this is only due to the current reality. Some countries such as Switzerland have such a robust railway network that new big box stores are mandated to have a railway connection. I don't have much hope in the short term, but I know if we took steps to support freight and passenger rail and improve the business case, it would become more attractive. Trucking is heavily subsidized because they don't have to pay for road maintenance, taxpayers foot the bill. There's still plenty of industrial or underutilized land alongside these rail corridors, that would likely be an attractive location for new businesses if a railway line was operational. The Malahat nation would likely propose their battery assembly plant with a railway connection for example, instead of a highway connection.

[@NotSureJoeBauers]

@@speakertwentytwo You've put a lot of work into your reply but bud... You're just so far away from reality. Small deliveries won't support freight. Standard minimum viability for rails is 100 cars per year per mile. Thats 17,900 loaded cars a year for the E&N. To hit MINIMUM viability. Trucking does indeed pay for road maintenance. GVW is the main factor in road tax so a truck at 63,000 kg licensed gross vehicle weight is paying a great deal of road tax. The feasibility of a rail link to the E&N for the Malahat battery facility is so insanely low. The elevations between the track and the factory make it pretty much impossible. I just shake my head when I think about all your "If it works in Europe" thinking. Edit 17,900 cars not 179,000

[@speakertwentytwo]

@@NotSureJoeBauers Thanks for the information! I will be honest, I was completely unaware of the road tax - it must only apply to commercial vehicles then. I sure hope it fully accounts for the costs - if not it should be adjusted. If it works in Europe is irrelevant - it's about the context. If there are steps we can take to create a context where sustainable cities and infrastructure are more feasible, we should take them! Of course there are tradeoffs, but people say "we are not Amsterdam" every time a city proposes their first cycling project and years later, people are asking for more. Yes, I'm an optimist. As far as the Malahat facility goes, of course the current project wouldn't connect - I was speaking hypothetically. If there were an active freight connection, entities such as the Malahat Nation embarking on major industrial projects might consider railway accessible sites instead of sites designed around highway access.

[@statusworldchanger595]

Consistency schedule service between Victoria, & Nanaimo for Visitors like me to get around!

[@TheGuerreroEFG]

great video, you deserve many more subs than you have

[@twmsmith]

Thank you for this! Good work...

[@rfwhyte]

Rail is dead on Vancouver Island forever and it is 100% the fault of the FNs. They'd rather build condos and strip malls on their small sections of the rail corridor than invest in a sustainable transportation future for all residents of Vancouver Island. They talk a bunch of BS about wanting the corridor land so they can protect their "Culture" or the "Environment" or whatever but if you read beyond the headlines here you'll see that what they actually care about is "Economic development," meaning real estate development. It's a real bloody shame too as we're essentially allowing a few special interest groups that represent less than 0.04% of the island's population to dictate policy that will affect the 850K other people that live on the island forever. There bottom line here is no one here to blame except the first nations as they hold all the cards, and will not allow the trains to ever run again as they'd rather make a quick buck in real estate than build a sustainable future for everyone. Doesn't matter what the other 850K island residents want, doesn't matter what the municipal, provincial or federal government want either, the FNs have said they want the corridor land and as anyone paying attention has long since realized, the FNs get whatever they want, whenever they want it, no questions asked. There's absolutely ZERO point in trying to do any kind of "Advocacy" or to attempt to put any pressure on the government, as our government has voluntarily tied their hands by adopting "UN Declaration on the Right of Indigenous People" and by using it as the framework for "Truth and reconciliation" they have essentially given the FNs an unlimited and unilateral right to block any project they don't like / don't make enough money in kickbacks from. The FNs have spoken, and they want condos, so the rest of us won't get a sustainable future and there's nothing that anyone can do about it. Have fun trying to drive the Malahat in 30 years when the islands population is well over a million and a half people!

[@JS-jh4cy]

So F** true

[@JS-jh4cy]

The truth is so brutal to a few FN some of them can see this railroad been useful the other FN can't see longterm

[@Themapleleaforever]

How do we avoid the conflict of freight and passenger traffic especially with only one track

[@TheRandCrews]

double tracking certain section more so like passing sidings, signaling, and maybe elevate some of the track to gain capacity and widen bridges. Very infrastructure oriented changes, somewhat GO transit has done some of these changes though not having to face much natural geographical problems more so urban

[@Themapleleaforever]

@@TheRandCrews I just want to avoid a Amtrak/VIA scenario

[@Railfan513]

R.I.P the blue bridge. before they took it down I saw some on had spray painted in like red “bye bye bluey”

[@thomascraig5577]

yessir

[@bcinspectorman]

Let's be honest here, BC Ferries in 2023 carried 21.5 million passengers and the best numbers the current proposal for rail service on the corridor is 240,000 per year. The number of trucks taken off the road will be minuscule due to the fact that most truck traffic is not containers, there is very little bulk commodities being produced on the island like minerals or grains, there are few sidings. Also, you'd have to have trucks delivering their goods to a rail yard or rail depot, empty their contents and load them into rail cars then unload them and reload them onto trucks to be carried to their final destination. Does this sound efficient and affordable to shippers? The list goes on...the configuration for their passenger train/cars is bizarre to say the least. Why would you have a separate locomotive pulling two passenger cars and why would you buy used locomotives whose service life is in question? How much subsidy would be needed to operate and maintain the corridor and its rail service? The last passenger train to run from Victoria to Nanaimo took 48 minutes just to get to Shawnigan Station and with no direct connection to downtown Victoria one would have to transfer to a bus just to get from Vic West to downtown. And finally, the cost for rebuilding the ballast and trackage is underestimated so to infer that a commuter rail service from Westshore to Vic West would incur cost overruns is just disingenuous since that portion of the line is the easiest to complete. This video shows why both the feds and province are reluctant to fund this scheme, too many amateurs including the ICF providing a "business plan" governments know to be more wishful and hopeful than meeting the necessary criteria for spending taxpayer dollars. The corridor can be preserved just as the City of Vancouver preserved the Arbutus Corridor for transportation purposes however the land issue with all Indigenous Nations the corridor passes through first must be settled.

[@UrbanRail]

Nice video

[@kitt2000car]

Moved off the island way back in 1979. And never looked back. They say after you live there for a few years. You start suffering from island fever. Went for a visit back in 2000. Boy that Pat Bay hwy was one big parking lot. And I thought the traffic was bad on the lower mainland.

[@bcinspectorman]

The way to preserve this corridor is to pass it back into the public hands through the Province of BC. Get it out of the hands of the ICF.

[@jordanw8382]

The Province of BC is the one opposing rail on this corridor. The 13 mayors of the Victoria region signed a petition to the province (itself a rare event) to revitalize the rail corridor, and the province ignored it. The province is the problem.

[@Themapleleaforever]

@@jordanw8382 Facts

[@eugenetswong]

@@jordanw8382 Did the feds offer any funding?

[@rasilaherman4769]

Interesting video and interesting debate/conversation in the comments. I recently started thinking about a future with rail service on the island.. I am learning about many of the challenges, and many of the opportunities. Somehow, someway.. it would be amazing if there was a case for it. And I see the value in getting started now, in preparation for what ever critical population milestone we have to achieve to make this economically viable. I agree, laying the tracks for this now will make it that much more likely to happen. I can tell you are not a boomer from your comment.. and therefore have a long future to dream for, and in that sense I fully support the dream!

[@CrapKerouac]

This would be perfect for getting the hell out of Nanaimo.

[@SeanMurrellRTS]

Hey I like trains too. But people like cars and business like trucks.

[@SimplyChico]

Business like train acutally

[@james.ainsworth]

Did you know that the business case put forward by the ICF proposed only 1 or 2 passenger trips in the morning and the same in the evening and that it will have a maximum speed of 50 km/h? When commuters north of the Malahat are heading to Victoria, they also have to consider how much time it takes to get to the train station, park their car, wait for the train, travel to Victoria, find public transport to their work. How are they going to convince people to use it? A study in 2012 says that there were between 22,000 and 36,000 vehicles traveling the Malahat each day. A passenger car for a train can take about 70 people. Let's say that there may be 5 passenger cars. That's removing 700 cars (350 in each direction based on one train a day) which is not enough to ease the traffic on the highway. The ICF business case states that the majority of seats on the train would need to be for season ticket holders. Anyone wanting to take the train now and again will be out of luck. This also means that people that are trying to divert from the highway when there is a closure due to an accident will have no luck trying to take the train as an alternative. The ICF business case didn't state any financial information about having to purchase additional land or build stations to accommodate parking for the number of passengers that are needed to make this cost affective. I commuted by train for 18 years in the UK. I am a potential commuter for this train service from the Cowichan Valley to Victoria. All I want to hear and to be convinced of is that this would be both time and cost affective for the commuter. Despite asking this many times to those that are promoting the return of a train service, I've not had anything that convinces me to give up my car for the train. If someone could do this, I'd be all aboard.

[@eugenetswong]

Has the ICF ever responded to you?

[@james.ainsworth]

@@eugenetswong no. Nobody has gotten back to me. I've asked the same thing in multiple places and nothing.

[@eugenetswong]

@@james.ainsworth That's disgusting. I too got no reply. They must think that nobody can do anything better.

[@shawn-dr3fb]

I've been telling people for 30 yrs. To put a Mag Lev. Elevated train over the old line and keep the ground path clear for a recreation for the length of the island and when will we grab a brain and bore a tunnel through the Malahat from gold stream to bamberton

[@00dfm00]

In 2024, it costs $6 million per km to bring the tracks back up to speed. Ain't gonna happen. Look at the ridership before the shutdown. It was abysmal. I'm not seeing any real numbers to justify what would likely be a $1.5 billion dollar venture.

[@eugenetswong]

We have to find a way to make it cheaper.

[@_PITBOY]

So, as a BC'r you want me, who lives in the interior, to pay absolute million$ to get a rail service up to code, on the island that no one will reasonably use, outside of tourism. Tourism wouldnt pay for even the running costs, those million$ will never be recovered. You would need literally hundreds of work commuters per day to pay running costs and even begin to pay off the up front infrastructure. Islanders dont have any recent history designing their life around train use, and so many other places that have tried this but suddenly found out that you really need the culture of train use for it to work. Hard pass.

[@warrenskaalrud]

OMG this guy is killing me. There's over 6000 Federal employees in CFB Esquimalt alone who aren't allowed to take their work trucks home and how many B.C government employees around the legislature? LOL Not required for Langford to Victoria... big fail

[@Among_us3.0]

Cp up to it

[@deltamodelrailroading7493]

You're a big failure Warren.

[@joeblough2485]

Interesting video. I'm not sure why you felt you had to belittle boomers and that we are cringe and type with caps lock on. Anyways, The ICF(who owns the rail corridor) has said they cannot and will not run freight over the Malahat rail. Last month we learned the roundhouse land will be developed into condo's. CVRD has been building a trial within 3M of the rail most of the way through Shawnigan making rail impossible for safety. The cost estimate from ICF is way ,way low. Replace all the ties and all the rails and all the trestles will be billions. Commuter rail won't work since you need networks of tracks and infrastructure for moving people to work and to stores etc.. The whole corridor is way too steep and windy for high speed. I think they suggested 20-25kph. I love trains but this one just isn't worth the cost to us overloaded taxpayers for a non usefull tourist train that runs along the ground over what 400 crossings so far? fouling traffic even worse. Disposing of millions of creosote soaked rotten ties and replacing them with concrete? (super harmfull to environment) They talked about sourcing local lumber for the ties. How many millions of board feet? How many thousands of trees? Keep the corridor land for the overpopulated future when a raised high speed safe people mover can be justified.

[@heronimousbrapson863]

As speaker 22 is such a critic of colonialism, maybe he should be advocating abandonment of the entire rail line, not just the part going through the first nation land. As for the Malahat, construct a southbound highway over the existing rail line, and convert the present highway to northbound only.

[@TheRandCrews]

many winding curves and tunnels fit for exactly those dimensions of trains wouldn’t really fit existing freight vehicles and vehicle speeds

[@Themapleleaforever]

The corridor could provide econoic benefits to the First Nations as stakeholders, so that'd be a stupid idea.

[@speakertwentytwo]

Ah yes, because railways are somehow more colonial than highways. I'm guessing you don't want to rip out the highways that run through almost every nation on the island?

[@rasilaherman4769]

Trains mean less vehicles on the road, means better for everyone!

[@eugenetswong]

@@speakertwentytwo Only that guy can speak for himself, but I think that he was using exaggeration to drive home a point.

[@camfree1076]

I live close enough to this rail line that it would impact me one way or another. Even though this narrator doesn’t want to hear from…cringe…baby boomers that’s too bad. Here are my 2 cents anyway. I have lived in two places in BC that has lost its passenger rail service. I remember when the corrupt government sold BCrail off ending one form of transport from north to south. The BCR was revived in a way by becoming a tourist attraction that most people in BC could not afford. Which is likely the only way this rail could be revived and made cost effective. So basically catering to the elite few that are mostly foreigners. Years later the other most used public between north and south was greyhound that vanished leaving people stuck with stupidly expensive air travel or having to drive. Since being on island the train tracks have become walking trails and greenery has reclaimed much and nature, like the plethoras of deer and bunnies graze as they walk along the tracks with babies following. As much as I like the idea of travelling by train up and down island I can’t see how this might be a big impact on local residents that have purchased or built homes close to the tracks being told it’s out of commission. Even if a train went by once or twice a day they add significantly to noise pollution and safety issues for people and animals. Then there is the cost.The reason all costs go up for every project is because the government is a corrupt entity. Favouritism, nepotism, money laundering, blackmail, backroom deals, honey pots and more are all words that spell out theft….like what is finally being exposed right now. As the rail line goes across roads and very near people’s property I think this would bring law suits as people will feel deceived, less safe and burdened with sound issues. It would require, as well, the retraining of all the people that currently wait for lights sitting on the tracks as well. It would slow down car traffic too which already has issues. But all that aside most people cannot understand what a billion dollars really is and just how long that would take to pay off…without even interest….and this rail line would cost likely way more as fencing to protect nature would need to be done. The government tosses the word billions around like it’s nothing but in reality if we have to pay back the debt they have created, without our permission or knowledge, we could never pay it back and future generations would be enslaved forever lowering living standards all the way along. This would mean this GenZ narrating would never afford to own anything down the road so he might as well practice being happy about it now.

[@eugenetswong]

I consider the cost irrelevant, because we are already comfortable spending several times more on roads near the tracks.

[@kenvandeburgt1232]

E&N Railway should reopen but only as a private company funded only by private investors. Do not use tax dollars for this railway; the potential for white elefant is huge.

[@Themapleleaforever]

Sure bud, cause all of the nations with good rail service are privately operated... right?

[@kenvandeburgt1232]

@@Themapleleaforever All the ones that don't depend on massive government subsidies ...

[@Themapleleaforever]

@@kenvandeburgt1232 are you saying this ironically or are you being serious

[@kenvandeburgt1232]

@@Themapleleaforever Dead Serious. There is no way to make the case that tax money should be used to fund your pet railway train. E&N passenger service has never been financially viable because its too slow over mountainous terrain.

[@Themapleleaforever]

@@kenvandeburgt1232 just curious, have you ever been to Europe or Japan?

[@GrummanRV]

Delusional

[@AlexPotvin]

3:41 true instead you should do video essays using footage you didn't capture or license with clipping audio that potentially alienates part of the support base 🫠 That was probably the worst part of the video.