The CGC Scam Will Transform Comics!

The shockwaves felt throughout the comic collecting community from the CGC scam will change the hobby!
Connect with me on instagram at wahoocomics!
comics, marvel, dc, cgc comic, comic haul, dc collection, marvel collection, hot comics, comic speculation, comic investing, comic investments, comic investment speculation, comic investing 2022, hot comics to invest in 2022, best comics to invest in 2022, comic collection, comic hunting, modern comics, silver age comics, golden age comics, DC keys, Marvel keys, CGC unboxing, unboxing, budget investing, disney plus, mcu, Spider-man, Wolverine

[@stevechow2992]

Seriously, your video is WAAAAY better than some of those "more popular comic guys" on KZbin. You say things in a more simple and informative way, and I love the mention of professional wrestling. Again, I would recommend this video more than those other guys (they just blah blah blah saying the same shit).... Good job.

[@wahoocomics]

Thanks man! I took time to try to think of something new to add to the conversation, so it is encouraging to hear that work being appreciated. Also, after recording the video, I made a note to consider doing a future one on the similarities between comic collecting and professional wrestling. I have found that there are quite a few people who are drawn to both hobbies, and I think that's because they share more in common than you would think at first glance. Maybe I'll drop that video around Wrestlemania time, haha. Anyways, thanks again for the kind words!

[@CharlesCharles-bb6qx]

This was some excellent analysis. Further record prices require fresh money from outside speculators. This scandal will hurt those potential flows immensely.

[@wahoocomics]

Thank you! And, great point about how this scam scaring away outside speculators will affect the market.

[@lukebaker717]

Another HUGE factor that is just not getting discussed is simply this. What is to stop someone from swapping their books now? Swapping 9.8s for 9.4s? I mean it could be rampant now. And this just proves that as of now the CGC census could be WAY out to lunch. A high grade hulk 181 could be MUCH rarer than the census numbers show. The whole thing comes into question and until basically a new census and a new case are created there is no GUARANTEE in the CGC name anymore. This is DETRIMENTAL to comic books and will and should have a massive effect on the market

[@wahoocomics]

Great points all around. This is especially true, because now people have seen videos of how it can be done! So, this discovery of fraud could actually lead to more fraud!

[@michaelroot1960]

Spot on. There’s basically a few do-it-yourself vids on KZbin now showing anyone that two months behind on child support how to swap a high end 6 key for a 4.5 or how to swap a first print with a second print.

[@mestizo3113]

It's a good thing I can't afford those high end books cuz I'd be paranoid about this scam as well. But since I stick to middle to low grades, I feel pretty secure with what I have.

[@wahoocomics]

Yeah, I think you're pretty safe. Now that the list is out, it confirmed that the scam has involved high end books. Thanks for watching and commenting!

[@justyouraveragegeeks]

Great video. This scam is really crazy. I was just looking at the list of books and it’s incredible the number of books and how many extremely high value books. I wonder if CBCS like you said can eat away at the market share. They gotta prove though I would think is that their slabs are better somehow. Hopefully this doesn’t increase the cost of grading if CGC goes to new slabs. I’m still gonna send books to CGC I don’t send super high value books normally anyway. Great job with the info and analysis. Thanks for sharing. Happy New Year. Have a great week. Be well. -Dave 🤙

[@wahoocomics]

Thanks, man. Yeah, this is some wild stuff for sure! Although I think CGC will keep their prices the same for now as they don't want to anger the customer any more, I do think that eventually the changes they will make (new slabs, more people in quality control, etc.) will unfortunately lead to higher prices. But, I hope that I'm wrong!

[@timreierson26]

This ‘bear’ market if it extends as you predict will create attractive buying opportunities particularly during auctions. Certain buyers will try to capitalize on this fear while it lasts. I am one who is not unnerved by what has happened at CGC. Yes, some trust has been eroded but I am confident CGC will respond in a way that restores this trust. I am a longer term holder of my slabs so I know I can ride out this scandal. I am not convinced that high-in-demand key comics (higher valued books) will see a decline in value. The first test will be the Heritage comic auction on Jan 11 & 13. There are a high volume of high-in-demand books in this auction. For high demand books which would be possible targets of this scam, I will be surprised if values are significantly impacted. We will see. CBCS has shown a consistent pattern of not being able to take advantage of CGC issues. As a result, I don’t see CBCS gaining any market share from this. I believe that CGC actually has an opportunity to strengthen its customer loyalty and goodwill if it responds in a way that is aggressive, customer-focused, and timely. Because their business model depends on this, it really doesn’t have a choice.

[@wahoocomics]

Great thoughts, and I agree that CGC can strengthen their customer loyalty and goodwill with the correct response. And, I also agree that anyone who is a longer term holder of slabs will certainly be fine. If the market were not already swimming with negativy, then I would be more optimistic about the short term as well, but I think there is a perfect storm of circumstances that will create the attractive buying opportunites you mention (or maybe I'm just wishful thinking here, because I want to take advantage of those opportunities, haha). Thanks for the thoughtful comment!

[@SwytchComics]

It will be interesting to see how people are reacting to this in 6 months+ time.

[@wahoocomics]

I agree. My guess is that it will have mostly blown over, though I do think there is some percentage of people (5-10%?) who will have still moved on from CGC for at least the time being.

[@bat2275]

All old slabs are now suspect. I will never buy an old technology slab again

[@michaelroot1960]

Yep, why buy slabs that will always have a question mark hanging over them. I’ll wait a year or so for technology to catch up and hopefully surpass the current fraudsters.

[@wahoocomics]

Another prediction that I could have made in the video is that this scam will lead to many more reholders once the new techonology is out, so that there is no more suspicion surrounding their slab.

[@wahoocomics]

@michaelroot1960 I think a lot of people are going to move into submission pause mode until the new technology is here...hopefully, we won't have crazy wait times again once the the new tech is here and the floodgates open with submissions from people who had paused

[@samuelcatoe1927]

I wouldn't say ALL old slabs. Some slabs, such as really low grade books and non-9.8 new books, just aren't worth the trouble of swapping out.

[@SolveForX]

Slabs are photographed.

[@MoneyballComics]

Great takes; thank you for sharing your thoughts on this. I do believe that all things will pass, but CGC is going to keep taking hits and their reputation will not be able to recover as quickly each time. The solution is to better understand the comic book collector and collecting community by reaching out to us and not treating us as line items. The other solution is to find ways to bring value to their existing services. I've been talking a bit about this on my channel where one example would be to provide grader notes on 9.8 prescreen rejects. You already have the grader note process in place so there's little to change about the process. Things like that would go along way to recovering some of the trust they've recently lost.

[@wahoocomics]

Great points. A parallel to what you are saying might be Disney movie franchises right now. Their first few missteps were not a huge deal, but there has been a cumultive effect of misstep after misstep leading to a very damaged brand. This could certainly happen to CGC. Also, this would be a great time for CGC to add more value to their existing services. Similarly to your suggestion, I'd just take grader's notes on all books, because I've gotten back several 9.6s that look like 9.8s to me but no notes are recorded. Such as easy way to add value that would really be a hit for the consumer and restore some faith in their brand.

[@davidallen4026]

For this scam to work there has to be more than a few hundred dollars on the table. I think the vast majority of slabs are safe. My predictions: the chain of custody of the book will be even more important. For example if you bought it from a large auction company that counsels sellers to slab their books, you may have an original owner book. There will also be a lot of internet detectives out there tracking sales by serial numbers and spotting fakes.

[@wahoocomics]

Totally agree on the vast majority of slabs being safe. And, those are some great predictions. It's definitely going to be cool to see what all the internet detectives can uncover.

[@Mr.E-xc3tg]

Very good, encouraging perspectives! CGC would be wise to listen, especially regarding the development of a new slab. Would you buy slabbed books at this time? If so, under what circumstances?

[@wahoocomics]

Thanks! And, that's a good question that I'm going back and forth on. Most of the slabs I own are from my own submissions, so I'm not concerned with fraud on those, but I am still pausing for a short time with my submission to see if CGC does indeed announce a new slab in the near future (because of course I'd want them in the newer slab if so). If I were looking to buy from someone else, though, then I'd probably only be on pause for high value books, though I'd still be open to buying even those types of books if they were from a seller that I trust who told me that they had personally submitted the books themselves. But, it's hard to know exactly what to do right now, haha.

[@dumpsterbaby3155]

this was a long time coming. The temptation was always there and someone perfected the process. Glad I'm just a golden age collector

[@wahoocomics]

Yep, wherever there is money to be made, there's someone that's going to try to run a scam. Golden age books should definitely be pretty safe...there are so few that it would be hard to find something comparable to whatever it is that you are trying to replace!

[@tomvu1470]

Seems like the clear majority (if not all) strategy for the "switcherro" was the lax reholdering policy of CGC (not all such submissions are regraded/reverified). If they were re-examined, then switches would most likely been found at that point.

[@wahoocomics]

Great point. Another prediction I could (should?) have made is that I think CGC will change its reholdering process. Although I don't think they'll go full on regrading at the moment, I do believe they'll implent changes like doing page counts and checking for coupons, centerfold and inserts with a reholder to confirm it's the correct book. They may even start comparing the book to pictures they have of the book that is supposed to be in the slab.

[@darrensmith9564]

You're missing an important point with the books. The seller didn't swap the book and sell it. They swap the book and sent it back to CGC to get reholdered in a brand new slab. The seller then would sell the reholdered book.

[@wahoocomics]

Great point! Another prediction that I could have made is that CGC will change their reholder process. Although I don't think they'll start to fully regrade books that are submitted for reholdering, I think they'll begin to do page counts, check for missing coupons, inserts, centerfolds, etc. to confirm they are reholdering the same book. They may even compare the books to pictures they have from the original grading, though that would take a little more effort.

[@leerogers5318]

Impressive video with thorough sound analysis. Ultimately, the dynamics of the collectibles market rely heavily on speculation. Despite the CGC scandal not occurring, there's an evident downturn in the comic market. Nevertheless, a recovery is anticipated, albeit gradual. I foresee that by 2026, the majority of the drawbacks in comic collecting will have subsided, paving the way for a gradual increase in comic book prices over the subsequent five years. Viewing this as an opportunity requires patience and disposable income.

[@wahoocomics]

Thanks for the kind words, and I think you make some great points. Lots of speculators got burnt over the past year, and I agree that it'll take a couple of years before they come back into the market and bring those gradual increases. In the meantime, I'll be looking for deals from past speculators looking to dump their inventory!

[@cwwheelz]

I agree with all of your points and if I wasn't so busy with work(read: lazy) I may have made a similar video. I've been following this thing fairly closely for a while and it's like a true crime show for me.

[@wahoocomics]

Yeah, it's been fascinating to see the detective work that's been done by people from the comic community, and I'm looking forward to seeing further revelations as more is uncovered. Thanks for watching!

[@tonyhiland-js4dt]

will be interesting to see if cgc raises prices in the future due to having to use "new and improved techniques and processes" to ensure their slabs will be harder to tamper with. or if they raise prices and do bare minimum if anything at all. they are already invested in the machines they have to make the slabs. but as long as collectors keep chasing grade numbers on the left corner of their books they will be fine. my comic buying days are done. this hobby is supposed to be fun and this isnt fun anymore with all this craziness going on.

[@wahoocomics]

Yeah, that will definitely be interesting to see. Another prediction I could have included in the video is that is they keep prices the same in the short term, so that they don't anger their customer base even more, but that they eventually raise them by using the reason you mentioned along with the reason that they have to hire more people to authenticate books during reholdering. And, I think a lot of people are feeling burnt out. Hopefully, things settle down soon! Thanks for watching and the comment!

[@jsa8368]

CGC needs to upload photos of every high end book so that potential buyers can view it along with grading notes. Don’t put the scanned image behind a paywall

[@wahoocomics]

Great idea! It would be very helpful and an easy way for them to regain some trust...I hope they do it!

[@ddougherty8266]

needs to - but won't.... then everyone will look at their books, all at once... if even 1% or 2% of the slabs out there in collectors hands can be seen as not matching, they won't be able to contain the issue. This is a problem that they cannot solve.

[@wahoocomics]

@@ddougherty8266 Good point. It could potentially open up the floodgates if they were to do that.

[@briondraper8425]

Watched this video yesterday but had to warn friends. Thanks for the quick heads up.

[@wahoocomics]

Thanks for watching! And, I appreciate you passing the info onto your friends!

[@clintonsmith5163]

Anyone who loses interest in comic book collecting because the MCU movies suck or because of the various controversies regarding graded slabs wasn't a true comic book fan to begin with.

[@wahoocomics]

These challenges are certainly testing collectors' committment to the hobby!

[@DocReasonable]

'I was at one of Carbanaros NY conventions in what I think was year 2000, the year CGC was getting organized. The conversation amongst a few dealers was about a guy in New Jersey who still had a brown box case of uncirculated Hulk 181. The debate was do you just pull one book at a time and sell it without telling people you have hundreds.' posted in 'Comics general' CGC board May 4, 2009 Topnotchman

[@wahoocomics]

Yeah, the possibility that that the market could gets flooded with 181s at some point scares me! That's one of the reasons I'm hoping to sell one of my copies. My other copy I inherited from my father-in-law, so it'll never leave the collection since it has such personal value to me.

[@cards-vs7hv]

What's 28% tax on collectibles .. yet nobody mentions it.

[@wahoocomics]

I almost made a video on it this weekend since it would have been timely...maybe next year!

[@barwaz10]

Great infomation as always.

[@wahoocomics]

Thanks man! I always appreciate you watching and commenting!

[@decojoker1]

CGC will not find all the affected books, so they will only lose so much money, but the new cases will mean people like me who just had all my comics graded recently will be in the old non-trustworthy cases, so cgc will have everyone coming back to reholder the old cases and will win big in the end for their own incompetencies. sad for the collector

[@wahoocomics]

It will be interesting to see what percentage of old cases people send in for reholdering when/if a new case comes out. You are right in that CGC could potentially make a massive amount of money if that percentage is even at 1% (enough to cover whatever they have to pay out to compensate people for scam books and then some).

[@RobRVA]

Well I'm gonna buy more slabs as long as they keep dropping in price. Goody for me to pick up a few more mid range keys. . I feel like the scammers focus more on the very high end stuff.

[@wahoocomics]

I'm also looking forward to buying slabs while they are down in price! I feel like there are going to be a lot of great deals that people can find in the next year plus until the market rebounds. And, yeah, I agree the scammers focused mostly (only?) on high end stuff where the most money could be made and the risk was worth it, so I believe low-mid value books are still probably pretty safe.

[@SolveForX]

Always buy the book, not the grade. The grade is ADDITIONAL security. Graded books are still 10,000 times more safe than loose books.

[@wahoocomics]

This is a very overlooked point. There are all kinds of scams that can be run more easily with loose books (for example, selling a restored book as unrestored).

[@judesjunkcomics3283]

When others are afraid .... be greedy. Fantastic time to buy 9.8 CGC books!!!

[@wahoocomics]

Yep! Comics are on sale!

[@TT-fq7pl]

Interesting take, clearly articulated. Thank you. Personally, I'm not sure this "scandal" will have much of a negative effect that wasn't already there with the slumping market. Collectors, like most people, have very short memories and will quickly move on. Plus, I'm not sure that the absence of relief money and the unpopular movies really have much to do with the slumping market either. That money wasn't enough to create that kind of boom, and wasn't the most recent Spider-Man movie a huge success, as well as several of the other series? I don't watch them, so I can't say -- just going by online reactions. Definitely the pandemic restrictions, with people staying at home, was the biggest driver of the comic boom. Now everyone is busy again and there are all the usual options for spending money. I agree that the MCU and CGC really changed the hobby, but I would also add the Internet to that argument. In fact, CGC made it possible for people to buy expensive comics online and not in person. Having said all that (my apologies for going on so long), I think your comment about collectibles not generating wealth is the salient point. Many people are just no longer comfortable with the "comics as an investment" argument. That worked for a while, but it's falling on deaf ears now. Have a great start to 2024!

[@wahoocomics]

Thanks! You make a lot of great points, and I especially agree that the internet was a game changer. In fact, that topic probably deserves it's own video, so thanks for giving me another idea! As far as the MCU goes, Spider-man was a big hit...though, that was two years ago (hard to believe it's been that long!). Since then, it's been mostly box office and small screen disappointments. Thanks for watching, and I appreciate the thoughtful comment!

[@bat2275]

Time to only buy raw again

[@wahoocomics]

I think a lot of people are going to make that transition!

[@ddougherty8266]

In the first 10 days, many YT dealers were making videos, with assumptions (and ignoring the ASM 129 book switch angle) to marginalize the scope of this CGC problem. Many told collectors to "calm down"... Many told collectors that the types and numbers of CGC slabs that might be suspect was small. Oh, and many accused those who were upset of just being "CGC Haters" in order to stifle and marginalize them. Now, that marginalizing (oh, it's only Mark Jewelers, it's only...) has been shown to have been wrong. I am not a CGC hater, and I think that every high-value CGC Blue Label book should be suspect at this point. Now, to your point about scope...I think it's arguable as to what "high-value" is. Is it $250, or is it $2500? We simply do not know just how much money any particular scammer would need to get to justify them spending the time and effort to open a CGC case and slide in a lower grade or CGC purple-graded comic. I do know this... as little as $100 is more than enough money for someone who needs money, and who is already of a nature to steal, to motivate them to do whatever they need to do, in order to steal. That's true with shoplifting, robbing candy stores, and this. People who think that this "has to be" limited to $1000 books to make it worthwhile to a scammer, are projecting onto all scammers (and there could be hundreds of them out there) their own sense of what would make it worthwhile to scam. You and the dealers on YT are not scammers in the first place, so you don't know how they think or what they'll do to steal.

[@wahoocomics]

Very good points. While I totally agree that many bad actors would be willing to run a scam for a $100 profit, I am still uncertain if they would do so when they could run a $1000 scam with the same amount of risk and effort. In other words, if both scam A and scam B take the same amount of risk and effort, but scam A pays off $1000 while scam B pays off $100, then it seems like a thief would always run scam A (even if he's degenerate enough to run either scam). Thanks for the thoughtful comment!

[@brychology]

CBCS has to be licking their chops! Let’s see if they can do something to challenge CGC!

[@wahoocomics]

No kidding! This is their chance!

[@robbin8300]

You looked like Julius Caesar with that wreath around your head. Glad no one opened that door behind you.

[@wahoocomics]

Lol! That's the door to our basement, so I knew I was safe, lol. I've got young children, so I've got limited space and have to wait to do my videos until after they're in bed, so I've got to use whatever area around the house I can get and when I can get it, haha.

[@robbin8300]

@@wahoocomicsUnderstandable. Informative video 👍

[@cards-vs7hv]

Why does nobody talk about capital gains tax for collectibles which are almost double at the stock market?

[@wahoocomics]

I almost made a video on it this weekend since it would have been timely...maybe another time!

[@cards-vs7hv]

@@wahoocomicsI guess the old saying is true right, death and taxes 🤪

[@wahoocomics]

@@cards-vs7hv You got that right, lol

[@jamesortiz3425]

I. Hate to burst your bubble, but only a fool would think that collectibles will come to an end!!! So long as people want, the market will be there for that!!! And comic books are like desirable paintings of the Masters?!! Whether it's CGC,,, Or CBCS. Or any other company of graders. etc,.!!! 🤗

[@wahoocomics]

I'm confused...do you think that I'm saying that collectibles will come to an end? I've certainly never said that nor do I believe it.

[@WhiteArtsMagic]

On the stock market "...if they own it, they know they are going to make some money" If only it was this easy

[@wahoocomics]

I got too many they's in my sentences lol...what I meant was "if the investor owns it, the investor knows the company is going to make some money." In other words, a company with stockholders is producing goods and/or services that are going to make money (i.e. McDonald's is going to make Big Macs, which are going to make money). Now, how much money the investor makes from the stock will depend on how many Big Macs that McDonald's sells, but he is investing in an asset that is generating money. Whereas a collectible does not produce any goods or services, so it carries a form of risk that stocks do not. But, once again, stocks, of course, carry their own forms of risk. That said, investing in something like the S&P 500 has been a pretty safe investment over the long term up to this point. Thanks for watching and commenting!

[@WhiteArtsMagic]

@@wahoocomics No one likes the safe bets! Give me the comics! haha

[@wahoocomics]

@WhiteArtsMagic 🤣🤣🤣 Let it ride on the comics baby!

[@ObsessedCollector]

Slow economy+bad MCU films+CGC scam = HUGE CRASH COMING.

[@wahoocomics]

It's been the perfect storm of bad news for the comic book market over the past year, and it'll definitely be interesting to see how far he market crashes in 2024!

[@JJ-qo3cz]

Most books 📚 the scammers , would take a 9.4 or 9.6 and switch it out for a 9.8 grade and make thousands of dollars more. The price for a 9.4 or 9.6 , is a lot less in price. Also, the look of the books liok very similar.

[@wahoocomics]

Exactly!

[@richhistory4124]

Holders are not the issue it was the reholder "system" The scam has zero to do with being able to swap and sell directly, that is being hyped as bad as the books. They were sent to CGC before selling and some flaw in the reholder system with inside employees was the issue. none of them were swapped and sold directly. There are signs you will see if a holder has been tampered with if you LOOK, cases are not tamper proof, nothing is, they are tamper evident. You must look at the holders, especially the posts. Given the right incentive anything can be faked or altered, you need to be aware of that always. The higher the money the more you need to pay attention, even if the update cases you will need to be aware of what to look for. That being said, like you said you shouldn't really worry under say $300, and don't worry about older holders, PSA older holders still bring about the same as newer updated holders, again you just have to be vigilant. Overhyped overvalued books are WAY more damaging to the hobby than this scam will be.

[@wahoocomics]

Yes, that's right. Since there were so many videos about how the scam worked, I was just trying to give the gist of what happened by saying "books were switched" before moving on to trying to add to the conversation with my predictions. But, you are certainly right in that more was involved. And, I totally agree the higher the value, the more we need to be alert. Thanks for watching and commenting!

[@bigghoww]

Im not buying any high cgc slabs Raw, CBCS and my own CGC submissions from now on

[@wahoocomics]

I think a lot of people are going to be making a similar transition!

[@casino_comics]

I only buy raw books and then send them to get graded. Most of the books I get graded are from my personal collection and not the big boy books. So I'm safe.

[@wahoocomics]

That's great that you know that you are safe. I think a lot more people will switch to your strategy (at least in the short term) of buying raw books and sending them for grading for that reason.

[@Ceremony74]

"Messaging", diversity in movies

[@wahoocomics]

Yep, people feeling, correctly or not, that diversity has been forced in the movies has been part of the messaging that has turned them off from those movies

[@roberterwine7650]

I am glad I am not a 9.8 buyer . this will devastate the graded comic market . 2024 doesn't look good for buying high grade or any grade books .

[@wahoocomics]

It's going to be interesting to see how long it takes the graded comic market to recover from this. Will things be back to normal by the end of 2024? Time will tell! Thanks for watching and the comment!

[@jacob_comics]

I still just sent 50 books in yesterday.

[@wahoocomics]

Nice! The scam is not changing any of my personal submission activity either.

[@williamedwards5704]

Really? Truly? Why? We all just discovered that the slabs are not Tamper Proof. The crooks knew it but all of us honest people didn't know it. Slabbing will halt until a Heat Proof Slab is designed.

[@jeffschmitt6977]

People if they buy CGC books will be buying the new slabbed books and shunning the older slabbed books. Think about it. Your going to buy a New Mutants 98 in the old slab or are you going to buy the one in the new improved slab leaving the old slabs in the dust regardless of bull or bear market. I wouldnt want to buy an old slab unless it was heavily discounted and even then, why? Would rather trust the new slab! Its human nature. Hence, get ready to see old CGC slabs dive in a slow slide. You will not even see the beginnings of this till the new slab comes out. Then you will see how human nature works. So, lets say the new untamperable slab comes out. Ya going to buy the old slab on a rare book? Or the new slab. Ive already started to unload my CGCs. WIll buy them back later. I own all slabbed companies books and all the companies have their place.

[@wahoocomics]

Good points. I totally agree that old slabs are going to be frowned upon if a new one is developed. However, another possibility to consider is that people could just send their old slabs in for reholdering once the new slab comes out. CGC could potentially make a ton of money with future reholdering in this scenario.

[@jeffschmitt6977]

Understandable, sending them in for beholder or regrade. As usual, the consumer gets secreted. Not only does he pay for old slab but he gets to be hosed down for the cost of a new one even though a tamper proof case is what he thought he was buying in the first place. He gets double hosed.

[@davelaughey431]

Agree new CGC slab design anti tamper. Prediction - any comic you had to pay CGC a % of its FMV for grading, reholdered, regraded, and re-cased, for free, in improved slab. Better case to be in production in one months time!!. Anything less they don't deserve to be supported. Just my opinion of course no disrespect to anyone elses.

[@wahoocomics]

That would be a great reponse from CGC...especially since those higher valued books that require you to pay a % of its FMV for grading are the most likely ones to have been tampered with (and since they stand the most to lose in the case of fraud).

[@chadleschasin2893]

It’s not going to transform comics at all it’s a story driven medium that’s made up of a diverse assortment of publishers with a diverse and large customer base , it’s going to transform a certain aspect of the collectors market and speculation market but that’s a small part of that community as a whole … keep in mind that not everyone is as preoccupied with getting their collections graded and encapsulated it’s a multi billion dollar industry…. Look at the amount of KZbin views on channels whose primary content is about grading books … none of them get view counts that would reflect the overall size of collector base.

[@wahoocomics]

Sure, but I'm working under the assumption that the vast majority of the people of people who click on a video about CGC (if not all of them) are going to be from the collector/speculator sector of the hobby, so that is the audience that I'm speaking to. And, for them, this will transform comics. Thanks for watching and commenting.

[@chadleschasin2893]

@@wahoocomics but your title doesn’t say that , I realize you want the views so appealing to widest amount of people is the game … so maybe a title more targeted to that specific audience 🤔 would back your video better! And you wouldn’t have people like myself pointing out the obvious.

[@miguelh4750]

CBCS won't do much or anything at all imo.

[@wahoocomics]

You might be right, especially since they just unveiled the new label and might not want to make another big change so soon. Time will tell!

[@EricMoore790]

CGC is still the best! Take a hike pal!

[@wahoocomics]

🤣 Sorry to offend! Lol

[@miguelh4750]

I have zero interest in signature series.

[@wahoocomics]

I feel the same way (I own no signature series books), but a lot of people certainly love it.

[@ryebaldy8479]

Cant wait to see if you're predictions come true or not. My golden age and silver age books are up slightly. We shall see. But i ain't selling, so whatever, historically comics have always had downs, nobody cares about the movies, yes they have a little slight on books, but if its a timeless book, nobody gives a crap about a good or bad movie. Heritage Auctions are breaking records, lol. Just another down, once the index fund and interest rates go back to normal, so will comics, welcome to capitalism!

[@wahoocomics]

Yep, I agree that we are just in a down cycle and that there will be a recovery at some point. Timeless books like you allude to (especially Golden and Silver Age ones) are certainly the most safe. I'm glad that your books have even gone up slightly despite the market being overall down. That's great! Thanks for watching and commenting!

[@ryebaldy8479]

@@wahoocomics and like I said, screw the movies, nobody cares!! Keep collecting you collecting freaks!!

[@DocReasonable]

*Prediction:* CGC goes bankrupt in 2024 (from a combination of being sued, losing 99% of their business and having to do thousands of free regrades) and a new, competent company takes over, learning from CGC's many, many mistakes.

[@wahoocomics]

It will be interesting to see if anyone brings a successful lawsuit against them. And, I am also curious to see how they are going to handle the high volume of regrade requests that they are certainly going to face. Thanks for the prediction! It'll be fun to check back on all of these a year from now.

[@MarcSpectorComics]

Highly doubt that's the case. Remember Blackrock owns them. They won't lose out on 500mil investment

[@DocReasonable]

CGC's a liability right now. They've lost all trust, people would be mad to keep using them. @@MarcSpectorComics

[@wahoocomics]

@@MarcSpectorComics Good point. Blackrock isn't in the habit of losing money, lol

[@mannythehobgoblincollector9403]

A friend of mine who is into more slabs was mentioning that angry CGC thumbs are complimented by the happy CGC submission fingers. I noticed on IG a lot of not so long ago "angry" folks bragging about CGC slabs and goals for 2024. I don't want to paint with too much of broad brush, but it looks CGC is already recovering short-term after the statement. I can imagine more low ballers, level 100 hagglers, and "skeptical" slab buyers. Happy New Year! 👍🏼👍🏼🎃🎃

[@wahoocomics]

Great points all around! In fact, today I sold the highest priced slab I've ever sold. And, it had been listed on ebay for 2-3 months. So, obviously, there are still plenty of people buying slabs and not fazed by the scam.

[@captaincomicana4231]

It didn’t take long for me to realise you don’t know what you’re talking about. An economist you are not. Lol Bye

[@wahoocomics]

Ad hominem ftw!

[@youtubesucksass6588]

Don’t sleep on Spawn comics, 2025 if that movie actually drops the prices are gonna skyrocket

[@wahoocomics]

Very true...especially when it comes to some of the keys with low print runs imo.

[@Comicbookyoutubersrock]

Nah, I don't think the scam will have ultimately transformed comics in any way. A month in and things are still the same, and will stay the same.

[@wahoocomics]

I'm not sure how much can change in a month, but CGC has already lowered their prices (which to me is a clear reaction to the scandal) and then released a letter yesterday (following other letters) where they alluded to working on their security measures, so it seems like more changes in their product are coming. And, though we cannot know for sure, the letter was a sign to me that they are noticing a drop in submissions and are working on damage control. Thanks for watching and commenting.

[@Comicbookyoutubersrock]

@@wahoocomicsDefinitely possible, on all fronts. Personally, I think you're looking too much into it, and the letter wasn't damage control and just good business practice. Not surprising to see the head of a corporation want to make a statement in light of recent events. But you could be right and it may be correlated to a decrease in business. Neither you or I know if that's true of course. So just pure conjecture, but I get it. Anyway, if your intent was to imply CGC will go through a transformation due to this, I mean sure that's common sense. If you meant the market will adjust which is how I took it, I think you're wrong. And a month in should show at least some results to that regard. So far, market has weathered the storm, if anything there's been an abundance of strong CGC auction results to prove opposite of that notion.

[@wahoocomics]

@@Comicbookyoutubersrock Sounds like we're mostly in agreement then. Most of my comments were about my predictions for how CGC would transform. And, yes, my thoughts are certainly conjecture, but the timing is pretty suspicious, haha. When it comes to the market, my main thought was that it would extend the overall down market that we are in since it adds to the negativity that has been there over the past year (though I did mention a potential short term impact on a limited number of books like Hulk 181 that are more easily used in a scam than others, so I might be off there as I haven't looked at the data on those particuarl set of books since making the video). Thanks again for sharing your thoughts.

[@Comicbookyoutubersrock]

@@wahoocomics Yeah I mean ultimately it’s a nutty situation to occur. So one would think there would be some effect on the overall market. The downswing from the pandemic seems to have leveled off from what I can tell. I think most people that may not buy CGC books due to the scams, likely already weren’t CGC buyers anyway or just anti grading. Most people are too knee deep into CGC graded books to let either be an issue. That’s just my .02. But yeah we’re pretty much in agreement. I guess not all comic book KZbinrs suck 😁

[@wahoocomics]

@@Comicbookyoutubersrock Good thoughts. Yeah, collectors and dealers certainly have too much invested into CGC to allow it to fail, so I certainly think CGC will be fine in the long term. My one thought was that there might be a temporary dip in the short term while collectors went on "pause" as things got sorted out, but it's possible that even that doesn't happen. And, I appreciate the kind words...that's high praise from an account with your name, lol. Alright, I gotta get the kids to bed, so I'm signing off for the night, but thanks again for watching and the thoughtful comments.