The Challenge of Sports BJJ vs Self Defense • Ft. Matt Thornton and Adam Singer

[@dragonballjiujitsu]

What is called "combat jiu-jitsu" now is the solution. Its what we used to call Jiu-Jitsu. If it wont work with strikes and you still teach it, you aren't teaching the fighting art of Jiu-jitsu you are simply teaching the hyper specialized sport of IBJJF brand BJJ. Don't think so? Put on the MMA gloves and try to punch each other and see how fast about 70-80% of that sport BJJ goes bye bye. We are right back to tight closed guard, getting on top and staying there, no guard pulling, effective takedowns, and actually hooking the leg when the other guy tries to slam you instead of hoping the ref saves you. Side note: Have you seen how many BJJ black belts can't do a simple trap and roll escape correctly? We don't need more techniques, we need perfection of the ones the Gracies were teaching 50 years ago.

[@TheJitsGuy]

Would you consider foot locking an important part of combat Jiu Jitsu?

[@dragonballjiujitsu]

@@TheJitsGuy I'm not sure I'd consider it important. Again if it can easily get you punched I wouldn't spend a lot of time on it. The only leg lock set up I spend much time on is set up from the other person being mounted. Its a no risk heel hook. Even if you miss it you end up out of the mount.

[@bono894]

More people quit the more realistic the training becomes. That is why I would likely teach for free if it meant keeping the effectiveness intact. Unfortunately, most instructors don’t have that luxury.

[@gerardorueda4331]

@@bono894 true that is, nobody wants to lose the money aspect. Real self defense is much harder and requires pain and suffering. 100% woth it because you are lying to yourself if you do otherwise. Most academies have the title self-defense outside but only do sport jiu jitsu.

[@scarred10]

I and I think almost almost every bjj practitioner would agree that ricksons self defense tournament is bullshit in the extreme. The solution is to do as the Gracie university does,spar with gloves and light to medium contact a few days every week and the rest of the time just grapple.The helio moves should be practiced v escalating resistance over time and some will be disguarded because they dont work but they are a supplement to sparring, both free and isolation drills.

[@peekaboojujitsoo525]

"A friend to all is a friend to none". excluding people is part of life. Stick to what you stand for and dont pander to people for money or to be liked by all. I agree with Matt. Jiu Jitsu is first and foremost about fighting and thats my belief and that is what I know to be true.

[@bono894]

I agree, but when you’re trying to keep the lights on in a martial arts academy that’s easier said than done.

[@bono894]

Matt, I don’t know if I agree that basic fundamentals alone are all that’s needed. If that includes dealing with punches on the ground then yes I agree, but without that I feel like the students will have some glaring holes in their self defense. Students are forced to do fundamentals when they add strikes to their rolling. This is because those are the only techniques for the most part that work when someone is trying to punch you in the face. There is a justified fear in many academies that training in this manner will lead to less trophies at BJJ tournaments. It’s probably true and I think this it why so many schools shy away from it. We do still have to be honest with ourselves and acknowledges why most people get into martial arts in the first place. People pay for martial arts classes because they want to become good at fighting. If instructors are not providing that then they are doing their students a disservice. Yes, the top level guys in these sport BJJ schools can fight for sure, but the average person who comes in off the street is forgotten and gets taught a bunch of sport specific stuff that would get him killed in a real fight. Training in a more realistic manner might alienate some students, but the same could be said about a TKD instructor that decides to start incorporating more effective sparring as opposed to no contact patty cake sparring. The difficulty is in retaining students without sacrificing effectiveness.

[@sbgipdx]

Bono, I don't speak for Matt but Matt has always referred to the fundamentals not as all you need, but all you need to coach. People pick up on more individually orientated BJJ on their own all the time.

[@alriktyrving5051]

At the SBG-gym where I train, and I have trained for almost three years now, we’ve never touched on things like defence against strikes, headlocks or anything like that, and almost no standing at all. I have to look to Gracie University online for some of that. I am in it for the self defence and fighting aspect. I don’t care about competitions. I would love to see something like the ”Gracie Combatives” incorporated in every SBG- center but unlike the Gracie version, practized with isolation rounds and sparring from the start.

[@WingChunGungFu]

Yes. No offense to anyone - but Gracie Univeristy is truly the best curriculum out there. You learn the complete art (self defense and sport). Gracie Combatives are the 36 most used techniques in the entire art. This helps you avoid all the not as effective old school self defense aikido looking moves (you can still see these being taught in Flavio Behring lineage) and those 36 techniques work in the street, in the cage, and in tournaments alike! Then everything from there expands and you can do tournaments while you learn

[@sleepykid156]

Would Gracie University and Gracie Combatives courses be a balanced solution to the issue? Or does the program as it is not practiced in alive enough manner to be a solution and it's the same as Rickson's self defense tournament?

[@JSMinstantcoaching]

Always put everyting into the right perspective, much love to you dear Matt

[@davidtarantino152]

Makes sense that if the goal is winning in ,boxing,wrestling,BJJ,Judo etc. Then exploit the rules. If your goal isn’t winning in the sport of MMA but defending yourself it seems a simple system based on fundamentals that expose you as little as possible to strikes, throws and takedowns would be better than a pure sport version.

[@justinmarkow6117]

Rickson people don't practice self defense moves like a "kata". They are practice with increasing resistance and stress. The demonstration is simply a demonstration and a way for students to get involved. I really don't see the issue here.

[@marcuspiscaer4120]

Matt has some good points. Few things to play devil’s advocate. 1) If you are a self defence school and you deliberately don’t teach your students all the moves that will get you kicked and punched in the face, then when a sports guy comes, he will have all these sports moves in his arsenal that the self defence students will not be familiar with, and therefore won’t have answers for. That is a bit of an unfair situation, and would mean the self defence only guys will lose under no striking rules. For it to be fair, they would have to roll vale tudo style to really test things out. 2) as Rener says, you can train self defence with pretty good aliveness using mild slaps. That is a great solution even though it’s not 100% realistic. But sports rolling is also not 100% realistic as you don’t go 100% during each roll either.

[@Badge01Kenobi]

Two major delusions come into play here. Protect the ego and Protect the rice bowl. Protect the ego by isolating and protect the rice bowl by bullying the students. Good video. Sad to see Rickson's tournament stuff happening.

[@clementkong8133]

People who often gets into silly arguments like these often don’t understand basic human physiology in relation to engaging in any sort of physical activity; sports or otherwise. It is well understood truth in fitness circles that sports are for the top 1% of human beings that are genetically gifted in their physicality and athleticism; martial arts or otherwise. If your techniques still matter more than your physical strength in the competitions you’ve competed in so far, you have yet to compete with the big boys. One Champ, UFC, IBJFF, or even the NBA or NFL, people who compete in these events and especially people who win are genetically gifted in some way or form. Even Michael Phelps is genetically gifted to be a tall individual with long limbs which helped him win multiple gold in Olympic swimming. Likewise, if you are a dude that is 5’4, you can’t jump, and you have terrible hand eye coordination which runs in the family, you just aren’t going to be playing for the NBA regardless on how hard you work on your game. With that in mind, as far as self defense is concerned and whether or not sports specific martial arts training would be sufficient, there is a lot you can get away with not training if you are a genetically gifted individual. Take the example of bjj rolling with an actual gorilla; the gorilla being analogous to an extremely genetically gifted individual. It doesn’t matter if the gorilla is up against Khabib, or GSP, or Gordon Ryan, the gorilla doesn’t need to know jack shit about martial arts & it would still be able to rip Khabib, or GSP, or Gordon Ryan’s arm out of their socket effortlessly and rip their face off with its bear hands while at it. On the flip side, lets say we have a martial arts student who is genetically gifted to have a strength of a gorilla and is able to rip a guy’s arm out of his socket and his actual face off of his face. That student needs to save his money because he is set for life to get by on the mean streets even if he doesn’t know the first thing about fighting and thinks martial arts is a type of painting. That guy is set! People who want to learn martial arts with the intention to defend themselves are not your genetically gifted athletes. They are your average joes.

[@wati1992]

To me this really is a non-issue. So long as BJJ continues to be effective in MMA, the combative aspect of BJJ will continue to survive and thrive. The thing is, not everybody wants to or is able to train and compete in that way. Most of us are just average joes and janes who enjoy BJJ as a hobby, and don't want to be losing teeth or walk into work the next day with a black eye and a concussion. To say that IBJJF or other "non-combative" rulesets will somehow water down BJJ is nonsense. It's like if a rally car racing enthusiast said that Formula 1 racing that takes place on paved racetracks was too artificial and irrelevant to the "real world", and that people getting into Formula 1 will somehow water down the sport of rally racing. They are, in a sense, completely different automotive sports. Meanwhile, the rest of us regular people are just looking to learn to drive a regular car that gets us from point A to point B safely. Not everyone wants to be a rally or Formula 1 racer, but it doesn't mean we're not all drivers. The whole BJJ for self defense thing is a dumb concept anyway. In a world where armed gangs of criminals exist, it's absurd and even dangerous to think that you can defend yourself in an emergency just because you have a single leg takedown and an armbar. The only skills relevant to self defense in my book are pin escapes and technical stand up and 100m dash. That said, what the hell do I know, I'm just some random guy on the internet.

[@bono894]

You can train BJJ with strikes in an effective manner without worrying about getting black eyes and concussions. It’s a common myth to think otherwise. Let’s be real. Nobody gets into martial arts thinking it’s ineffective for fighting. This is typically an attitude that develops over time as a means of coping with the fact that you’re training inefficiently.

[@gerardorueda4331]

It would be really soul crushing to be beat up by some bum that has no training after having spent two- or three-years doing sport jiu jitsu. Most people would get discouraged and quit. There will be a feeling that you wasted your time. How would you deal with something like that?

[@wati1992]

@@gerardorueda4331 Switch to MMA. But would you have wasted your time if your attacker brings friends or pulls a knife? I dunno man, just train in what you enjoy most.

[@tjl4688]

The problem is that most BJJ schools don't focus their training around MMA/striking opponents.

[@xaviersales92]

Berimbolo at 0:50 😲😲😲

[@clarezigner6028]

One thing that annoys me about Jutjisu videos is they are all showing only ground_movements,there is far too little concentration on moves done on a person,s feet. An originally practical battlefield system has been neutered and made rediculous, B JJ is a phony martial art, genuine Jujitsu comes from Japan.

[@JEFFMAN90]

Oh shut up

[@chancestout3836]

Makes me think of my situation hatsamato