The Classic Support Dagon | Whose Fault Is It Anyways? #12

[@ZQuixotix]

Don't forget the players in this series are here to improve, please don't be too harsh on them in the comments! Instead come flame me on my stream at www.twitch.tv/zquixotix

[@Colopty]

Your narration of Nyx's internal monologue was great though.

[@jacksonbuckley4367]

the amount of times ive had that exact thought and then gone and cast dagon AFTER mind flare anyway ...

[@garysalazar5279]

quick tip for LC players: buy and ping for smoke with ult and I guarantee you that supports will follow and even die for you to get your duel wins.

[@TheChosenOne462]

good support will buy smokes

[@garysalazar5279]

@@TheChosenOne462 the moment you expect to have good teamates in pubs is the moment you lost. dont expect your supports to know when your ult is ready especially in low ranked games.

[@Delacrow_l_Chawngthu]

@@garysalazar5279 same goes for core, most of the time they never check if support have mana or spells before engaging

[@emmanuelwilliamquinton9152]

​@@Delacrow_l_Chawngthuhaha so true. This is one of the really important thing to check in game.

[@jeevieseverino3949]

Expecting from team is a bad mentality. Its like expecting your team to win without you involve in it.

[@WelshPolitoProject]

Bro the oracle and the mines has me dying 😂😂😂

[@danyalziakhan]

Dumbest oracle ever. He could spam 2nd spell on himself and then scout in suspected mine areas to help his teammates not get destroyed by mines.

[@WelshPolitoProject]

@Danyal Zia it makes it so much funnier. Then in the second clip he presses E instead to nuke himself 😂 True innovator

[@El_Satan]

My team tilts when I play pos 4 Clinkz and it is Your fault ;) because I saw your previous video and love it xD My behaviour score went down by half even I won around 80% of this games xD

[@birk5989]

Same

[@tribaskarasutrisno9542]

People always scared of something they don't understand

[@irvinsha123]

BSJ and Speeed have now joined the pos4 Clinkz train, it’s coming

[@9.5kmmr58]

@@tribaskarasutrisno9542 *angry at something they don't understand. You get to suffer from their ignorance and inability to look at the current meta.

[@trontheallmighty9055]

at 1:14 the living armour on the illusion is absolutely sending me

[@eipimuja]

loved the video, also hilarious Nyx internal dialogue. Keep it up!

[@secretninja35]

If my legion didn't have a blink dagger at 35 minutes I think I would throw as well.

[@moebino2685]

If my legion had vanguard I would throw as well.

[@wow1371]

I am constantly amazed at initiation heroes like axe and lc that do not buy initiation items.

[@Jebu911]

well on axe blink is definitely a core item but on legion sometimes you can get a silver edge if you need to disable passives.

[@wow1371]

@@Jebu911 the issue is that normally Legion players do not do that they activate their w and that breaks the effect of break hence buying a silver Edge on Legion is useless you get some stats out of it but you almost get no kind of surprise while l with a blink you can surprise attack and it helps you in most cases to run away and disjoint attacks while Silver Edge will not always help you to run away because of the fact that people buy sentries

[@dingding12321]

lol these games where it's 30 deaths to 40 at the twenty-eight minute mark

[@WoobertAIO]

Average Berlin Major round

[@stephenryan6242]

Comment just for the algo, this content is amazing, please keep it up!

[@alial-kateeb5267]

I didn't think this was gonna happen LET'S GO

[@alial-kateeb5267]

I do admit I didn't consider the blink I'm noticing among many of my recent lc games I don't buy blink early I believe the nyx bought 1 ward the whole game I do actually like the Dagon build I just wished he had a single other supporting items to help us with and maybe have done some instead of upgrading Dagon which we see was over kill against the hero's he killed

[@ChinkyChickenxx]

@@alial-kateeb5267 For a LC, having a support that can secure kills is one of the best things you can ask for

[@WhopperCheeseDota]

​@@alial-kateeb5267 you went vanguard on LC you wasted more gold than Nyx did with that alone lol

[@alial-kateeb5267]

Vanguard is because I'm expecting to solo lane and cheaper but the blade mail was the wrong choice also while nyx can set up kills there was no communication nor did he attempt to do so the only player who communicated that game was blood

[@WhopperCheeseDota]

@@alial-kateeb5267 I wouldn't expect communication from randoms in solo queue. Also you are pos 3 legion it's your job to initiate and lead the team fights. Blademail is good the vanguard is not good. Lc already has good sustain from passive and the heal. And obviously blink was way too late. I don't think soul ring is very good either any more but I understand why you got it

[@briantamagos2306]

Nyx pondering life's greatest questions

[@brasileiroloko5375]

dude was literally the reason the game was lost and complained about sup, why are all core players like this

[@itmeurdad]

Toxic comment. It's not just cores. It's most players, especially lower ranks. Making TEAMMATES out to be the enemy is the issue. It's a team game. Blame teammates, and you'll find yourself on the losing team.

[@brasileiroloko5375]

@@itmeurdad True

[@nithinsid9547]

Lot of players won’t take accountability of their actions instead they tend to blame others for losing the game . For ex : yeah nyx wasn’t the good support . Lc made some mistakes which cost him a game . All he did was blame nyx as a cover up !

[@jom_and_terry]

This game is literally 1k average. All of them are bad 😂😂😂

[@Remnantful]

Bro he's a herald for a reason lol

[@miguelzapata9460]

Legion Commander was at fault That’s it

[@VsevolodTokmakov93]

8:45 HOLY FUCK emphasis on the first syllable in the word subsequent???

[@moebino2685]

It's weird you didn't bring up the vanguard pick up by LC, picking up vanguard as first item makes you useless as LC, It had 0 value in this game because the enemy team has no right clicker besides naga and naga won't be right clicking you as LC when you max Q in the early game, in late game vanguard falls off anyway.

[@jahn9757]

Match #: 7150525629 I was playing as the Pos 4 Hoodwink here, and was partied with my mid AM. He keeps arguing that in the early game, I should go to his lane and help him out even though I can never find any kill potential there. Although I'd like to use the twin portals more and utilize it for ganking between the two lanes, following his Divine V advice I kept hovering over whether I should go mid or stay in my lane (my intuition) which ended up ruining my own lane. Do you think he's right that I should have go mid more and stay to help his lane or should I have stayed in my lane and played it out? (Ignore my missed skillshots, t'was a bad day)

[@RandoMattz]

as a decent LC player i'd say that the items mistake was that soul ring and vanguard should have been the mail and the next 2k the blink. also i don't think i've ever bought vanguard on her as her whole kit revolves around reflecting and lifestealing damage not mitigating it.

[@JB-ti9wz]

Enjoy the videos! Keep it up

[@plethorajenkins5910]

Your funniest video to date Keep the great content coming chief P.S. For all the idiots flaming in the comments, submit your own replay and get your abysmal gameplay analyzed then

[@ApacheSmash]

I love this show

[@joaobicudo7489]

nice perspective

[@Remnantful]

13:38 haha

[@aoao27590]

FIRST AND PROUD

[@ZQuixotix]

EXCELLENT WORK! I AM PROUD OF YOU

[@moonjellying697]

WOOHOO 🎉🎉🎉

[@aoao27590]

@@ZQuixotix 7150165366 ... I played QOP pos 4 and i believe that it is a nice position for her and i di good but we lost !!

[@stephenjacobsen4616]

these vids are so valuble to me, thanks.

[@serwizzart]

Dude.. do you also review 7 lost games in a row? Im not kidding, I want to improve but I don't know what happened. I got up to 3.1k almost 3.2k and all of a sudden I feel like a complete, complete noob. But, of course its not my fault my team was shyte haha 😂 (jk btw)

[@Codec264]

If u went from winning to losing, look back at your replays and try to identify if you're playing any differently, or if you made any obvious mistakes in hindsight. I also like to play some.turbo to mentally reset from loss steak

[@kusog3]

​@@Codec264 this is true. It's also helpful not just to see replays on your own side but also switching to the other side and see if you're positioning is risky or always out of position. See if you are always visible in enemy vision or unnecessarily diving, afk, patrolling without direction and losing valuable XP and gold when you could have taken a farm that was actually available to you(even as support, notice how big the map is and how much farm there is now that cores can't even farm 60% of your side of neutrals). Notice if the timing of your hero and allies, (item timing and level timing-varies per hero) and see if you are taking advantage of your teams timings or just afk farming and letting enemy dictate the pace. Note the most common warding spot in the current patch for both sides. Try to go into demo and play around the trees to get the feel of the juke spots.

[@karmakaz1]

1) Match ID: 7150261574 2) I'm Jakiro 3) We got 5 roshans and megas... still couldn't win, my conclusion is that our HC bloodseeker is straight up garbage. I think a Euls/windwaker may have been better for me than the Vlads/Dagon in retrospect, but i was gettin pretty tilted, especially with our teams rage buybacks. What is the secret to wining late high-ground fights?

[@akutheshapeshiftingmaster7852]

Bait enemy team into diving into your hg/t4's and overextend. The biggest mistake i see when teams try to comeback, they win hg fight like i described above, then they try to push enemy base and overextend into their hg. Better to sit in your own base smoked up with wards and wait for them to try again and die with no bb left

[@akutheshapeshiftingmaster7852]

Especialy if enemy cores come to far into your base, their support have to follow them, then u wrap around and kill backline, now the cores are trapped in your base without backup

[@kusog3]

you were actually pretty farmed. Considering the burst of the enemies line up, yeah I do believe Euls/Windwaker or even Hex are better options than vlads/dagon. My only gripe with your build is not getting the 100% dual breath damage and range. It's actually pretty busted specially with seer stone, you can hit them from a full screen away with dual breath and stifle their initiation, the animation is a lie-it goes even further than the animation. Even mega creeps easily melts from lvl25 talent of Dual breath. Then again, the enemies draft are just pretty bonkers, if your LC and bloodseeker doesn't know how to kite the enemies ultimate's, it's pretty scary to dive into HG with an enemy Axe that will blink call your team, Muerta that will ult and melt any heroes if free hit, Jugg didn't get a swift blink but he has force boots and there's oracle with blink dagger that will turn around any blink-duel LC initiation with false promise. The veno wards can provide the vision, additional slow, dps. It's a really hard High ground push. The best case scenario is probably to find the oracle with BH or clinks, enemy axe gets tracked and you cancel his bkb blink with macropyre, while kiting around muerta ulti(she has ex machina, but only have dual bkb's and can't ulti twice, so you just have to kite around her ulti once.) Basically they have 2 win conditions, Muerta and Jugg, and catching just one isn't enough because there's an oracle. Axe's role is to enable either of his teams win condition. Your team on the other hand has 3 heroes that can end the game, clinks, BS and LC. However, because the enemy has an oracle, it's kinda hard to take away either of the 2 win conditions of the enemy since he simply has to false promise the target and counter initiate with axe bkb-blink call. enemy has linkens and lotuses, but I honestly would have taken double ruptures to lockdown any of the 2 cores or prevent axe initiation. The lotuses and linkens shouldn't really bother your BS because he can pick his target with Bounty hunter track or Clinkz burning army providing vision. Also besides dual breath slow and Ice path stun, the only reliable lockdown on your team is single target duel, rupture and clinkz hex and the enemy properly itemized with lotuses and linkens. Meanwhile, Axe-blink call is an Aoe debuff immunity piercing spell, meaning there's no protective layer from an axe's blink call; While enemy can feel safe from duel/rupture because of multiple protective layers. TLDR: Identify your teams and enemies winning conditions. Most games in pub going late game, people tend to be undisciplined and doesn't identify the winning conditions and simply jumps on the first enemy hero they see. Maybe your LC jumped an axe farming a pushing wave of mega creeps, which is a big no if you don't see the oracle. he will just turn around and call him and get bursted by muerta or jugg. You also need to keep track of buyback status of both sides.

[@knkaitlog]

2:06 its free duel damage, why did he Q instead of duel??

[@kaapro7894]

Good.

[@thehmsgaming6272]

Idk why this LC tilted, he played LC with no blink, no smoke call, no team play, letting Naga free farm. Dude thinks he did something but he is the worst player in his team. At least Nyx has the right item.

[@velleitious]

Match 7155194450 I played Crystal Maiden. I felt like I was playing really well, had easily set up Drow to carry the game, and she repeatedly decided to fight in Monkey King's ult and die.

[@geewantsthefunk]

crusader = dead inside bracket. i feel with them. but the guys need to learn to play their games and mute each other

[@peykashoe]

What I always practice being self-aware during games. I dont blame others when playing. I prevent myself from being toxic and at the same time I find myself more open minded. I just wish people are much more smarter when they play.

[@garysalazar5279]

quick tip for all cores: if your support is an invi hero (Nyx, Clinks, BH, Riki), dont expect them to get support items. Use them as vision for you to get kills. Those invi heroes cant change their game to become Jakiro.

[@kusog3]

the meta took so long to change that cores aren't used with supports getting non-utility items, specially with the bigger map and more neutrals to farm. Also, because of the nerf to sentries (less stock limit and longer refill duration), invi heroes serving as vision is even more valuable with how big the map is.

[@blueworker3399]

lmao

[@g4md0r32]

I didn't know crusader games were this bad sometimes... I am now starting to get back into dota 2 and I am better than this.

[@Aperturee]

The new Glicko system absolutely trashed Crusader games, I was about Crusader 1 when I took a break and now I climbed easily through the bracket in like the last 4 days.

[@Alex-wh3zw]

Sometimes people in low mmr skip blink on LC and Lion. Literally most important item for them.

[@tomboiv1653]

THAT'S A LOT OF DAMAGE

[@brawskewtf]

As an lc player with 74 or so % win rate I always have blade mail before I even got lvl 6, this way you can solo kill the enemy carry even without the boots! What is that build? Mana ring? Are you kidding me? Bro your build is so bad

[@alexc1561]

he's blaming his teammate which he CANNOT control...but he's not taking any responsibility for what he actually CAN control which is his own itemization. I really hope as a DOTA player I can improve what's actually in my power to improve

[@plmng7294]

MY GOD, how are these people higher rank than me???? They are absolutely terrible.

[@johnnychannarong5484]

They are crusader … lol you won’t realiZe how bad you are when you’re playing .

[@alwaysradical1613]

Yeah totally I watch archon matches and it infuriates how bad some of them are, yet I’m barely crusader. So easy to easy others faults and ignore your own

[@kusog3]

@@alwaysradical1613 this is true, even in higher rank, people tend to see other people's mistakes but if you actually watch your own replay, there are so many missed opportunities (like ignoring a camp you could have pulled or stacked you passed by, last hits you could have taken, time you wasted roaming-getting no xp or gold, sitting under enemy vision, your heroes timing, your item timings, etc...)

[@LeonardoPostacchini]

Hey Z! I have one for you 7151890858 I am Treant, no surprise there, beast and I had a really good lane against Slark, void and oracle were not doing bad themselves, for most part of the game it felt we were stomping and fighting really well. Morph tho seemed to not be interested in any of this and was AFK farming, the few times he participated in any team fight he seemed to be super ineffective. I must admit I had a weird build for I wanted to test harpoon on the tree, just because I thought it would be a hilarious alternative for blink dagger, even tho it seemed the line ups were not the best for trying to pull in and single out anyone. Particularly by the end I think I missed a great opportunity to harpoon Techies into our base and root him with the aghs shard by 33:32 mark. One mistake I believe the team as a whole made was to go HG mid instead of going RS after the fight on minute 26, instead the team decided to HG, back out and rosh as soon as dusa was up but that never happened because we ended up loosing the next fight. The game was fun but the whole team was really disappointed to be loosing and everyone was bashing Morph for that. Kind regards

[@aleksiy6869]

bro just ruined the game for himself and then he brags about trash supports lmao

[@ninjoshpanda6668]

7156132111 Phoenix mid. Who's fault is it? I got ahead early, it seemed like the enemy had some new players on their team, so I was able to bully the lane and rotate for kills. My team largely ignored my calls to group and push, so we kept getting jumped and failing to take towers. Skip to around 45 min, and my team seemed to be allergic to attacking their bot racks. What could I have done to increase our chances of winning, and did I throw by trying to push racks while my team fought in their base?

[@luigisansone4762]

Hi nice yours doing here. This last match i'v played : 7152363851 I'm playng Undyng. I did my best and early game was straight going to a victory, but my pos 4 picked Hood after enemy team picked PL(maybe ES would be better no?) and then played other but support. At one point all were just farming, letting enemy team just becoming bigger and bigger. Thanks.

[@James-li5ov]

1. 7150544199 2. im bristleback 3. mid didnt really do much of anything but farm all game. i mean im not sure what we couldve done better.

[@minmin-fs1nn]

7156987696 im playing pudge 11 thousand games, 1k mvp, its more like every game valve give me stupid team to force 50% winrate. i can go ancient with smurf account but this account wont pass crusader. basically, most of my game i own so much early game but all my effort wasted by clueless team. i do teach them but they never listen. i got quite high kda for most game.please come and roast me

[@evankelly1203]

You're in the most recent vid on his channel.

[@minmin-fs1nn]

@@evankelly1203 eeeehhhh? Let me check

[@yapvictor2213]

u are now famous lol