The Coastline Paradox Explained

Every self respecting geography channel has an explanation of this, I figured it was my turn.
I was also busy this week and needed an easy topic to make. Bigger video coming next week!
www.bensound.com/

[@andremilanimartin3338]

Seems like I would be a terrible cartographer. "A Fijord? Nah just draw a strait line there as the coast."

[@Pona12]

Looks like we can't afjord to let you be one

[@EdJones99]

Interesting video. I find it so fascinating that we can have shapes with a finite area, yet infinite side length. Congrats on passing 1.5K subs by the way! It's so cool to see some of my other favourite channels commenting on these videos. I'm gonna keep promoting these videos as much as I can until they start to get the attention they really deserve.

[@AtlasPro1]

Thanks, I really appreciate it! Glad to already have enthusiastic subscribers like you!

[@susmitamohapatra9293]

Well now it's got 69K subscribers including me.

[@jearmeymorgan8297]

susmita mohapatra holy shit! It's 112k now! 2 days later! Wow..

[@TheZenytram]

@@susmitamohapatra9293 269k 2 month later

[@mattwilll]

@@TheZenytram 289 k 1 month later

[@tinylunaticinahugeworld]

0:25 And that line is a national boundary, thanks to the Dutch and the British

[@cmurderfrumpbottoniv8647]

So why is one side a whole lot better off?

[@cmurderfrumpbottoniv8647]

Better side of the isle?

[@swapanzameen6302]

The Germans should also be thanked.

[@infinitecanadian]

@@cmurderfrumpbottoniv8647 Because one side is part of a bigger country, while the other side relies upon farming and a growing mining industry.

[@cmurderfrumpbottoniv8647]

@@infinitecanadian thnx

[@brandonden795]

The lack of ability to measure makes me anxious

[@burnt.norton]

it doesn’t make me anxious but it very much bothers me

[@avi8365]

There was this guy called Heisenberg

[@zahrans]

@@avi8365 From the _Social Network?_

[@jiainsf]

We may never find the perfect length of coastline. But a close enough estimate is good enough, no? Guess not for Geographers

[@AtlasPro1]

Estimates are the best we'll ever get, and honestly more useful than a perfectly accurate measurement. Thanks for watching!

[@PetoriaZero]

Go by 1 kilometer units

[@jonasbindslev9894]

@@PetoriaZero what if you're measuring the coastline of a island that is only 20 meters across?

[@PetoriaZero]

@@jonasbindslev9894 scale it back from 1 kilometer until it fits (1km to 100m, 100m to 10m, etc.)

[@TheBrass18]

No! I blame the mathematicians! The geographers and cartographer do actual field work, but the mathematicians are hungover on their “theories”

[@annacandido8723]

Hey AtlasPro, your channel is becaming big! I’m brazilian and I’m loving to discover a lot more about geography from around the world. But it’s simply a lot more difficult to non native english speakers to watch the videos without english subtitles. Consider adding them, I’m sure this gonna make your channel expand ever more! Congrats for your work ✨

[@mitchgrange785]

Great video! Love your material. In this video you mention tides a couple of times and that got me a bit curious. You should make a video depicting how tides work and why some places around the earth have greater tidal movements than others. Thanks a lot man keep up the great work

[@paurepiccheeseman]

Fun fact about the resemblance to a fractal: Fractal geometry was developed specifically *because* of this paradox, fractals are the geometry of nature, the world isn’t made up of perfect, euclidian shapes

[@alliehill-sutherland5121]

I went down a rabbit hole a couple months ago by reading and wanting to re-write the text on the SE Alaska Wikipedia page that states incorrectly that SE Alaska coastline is as long as British Columbia's. Not by half but trying to get two databases that are large scale and approximate each other to do a somewhat accurate comparison.... ugh.

[@pepethesaddestfroginhistor2969]

This channel deserves a costume play button.

[@amoalomar]

Better explained than real life lore, amazing channel!

[@maltesemelon4585]

Another great video with great content, keep it up!

[@AtlasPro1]

thank you!

[@rafaelc.5705]

I'm glad this channel is getting the attention it deserves. Each time I visit there's 1000+ subscriptions!

[@einsteinwasright1044]

It sounded like you said that the tides on one side of Earth are opposite the other side (comes in, goes out versus goes out, comes in), but actually the tides on opposite sides are doing the same thing at the same time (both come in, both go out at the same time).

[@noleshot2713]

Watching this prompted me to think about how land area is measured. Would an acre of land (~209 ft2) be measured as seen from above or would it be measured on the ground? If the former, an acre on a slope would be “larger” than one on level ground.

[@IheartFuzzySocks]

I'm studying for a final, and this helped! Thanks for the quick but efficient content, keep it up! :)

[@billhart9832]

You should do a coastline measurement on “The Lake of the Woods” on the Minnesota - Ontario Border that also includes the Northwest Angle.

[@Rnankn]

This is Xeno’s paradox of measurement questioning if bodies can be infinitely divisible.

[@MicahJohns]

Fantastic work, very cool

[@tariffictypist7372]

Personally, I would use 100 meter increments for measuring a coastline, because it is still pretty accurate without being affected by the ocean moving and can even be defining of rivers, who else agrees with me.

[@fractalnomics]

I do experiments on fractals and have deduced an economy is a fractal, and inflation - hyperinflation - explained like the coastline paradox where the unit of measure is the devaluing fiat currency.

[@abcd9283]

2:25 Coastline of my beloved country Bangladesh.

[@BeratBudan-uv8tv]

Bharat India 🇮🇳🇮🇳🇮🇳🇮🇳🇮🇳🇮🇳🇮🇳

[@remurraymd]

similarly the square footage of the human GI tract which is like the coast line of the human approaches infinity as you go closer it is by far the longest largest human body organ. The liquid/solid ratio of the earth and human body exactly the same.

[@SaiKumar-ey5hv]

More geography more Fun!!!!!!..........Geography is awesome😍😍😍😍, i Love this channel... ❤

[@SamuelAdomYG]

Just curious. I have ever wondered if it were possible to travel around a continent using the coast line. Say, from West Africa and travel down to South Africa just simply using the coast line? Could that be possible? What are some of the problems one could encounter?

[@omarrp14]

With sea level rising it seems like it's make the most sense to measure to coast line at high tide

[@minchmeat]

Awesome vid!

[@okitasan]

Great channel! How long does it take for you to produce each video?

[@AtlasPro1]

Roughly a week, but it really depends on the video

[@ultimatebrickmasters6067]

Wow! It is hard to stay commited, but I can definitely tell it took quite a bit of time.

[@davefancella]

Don't forget what the meaning of distance really is. It's a way to measure how much work/effort/energy it would take to travel from one place to another. So the more detailed your coastal measurement is, after a certain point, it starts to become increasingly meaningless. When the most detailed measurements are needed, it'll always be on a case by case basis, and can be taken more reasonably than you're making it sound, because you have to start with the question of why you need the measurement. For the purpose of determining the sovereignty of the ocean, i.e. meeting UN requirements for which part of the ocean a country owns, you can just draw tangent lines from every outcropping and connect them to each other, then measure the resulting shape. If you're building a coastal building, like a dock, or a port, then the measurements you need basically amount to which parts of the structure need protection from water, which need protection from air, and which need protection from both. Also, because of tides, your hydrostatic forces will be more dynamic. But since mostly we're just asking how many people can fit on a beach or how long it'll take to move a boat from one place to another, there's more than enough wiggle room in our purpose that we can have satisfactory coastline measurements.

[@temogen2]

Mape of UK is very strange as the wind is blowing from east to west, miking the land, coastline sooth in the est and rough in the west

[@zhubajie6940]

These become important as countries fight over which portions of the seas are theirs. Perhaps you could do the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea regarding international boundaries and control.

[@dysae4484]

Underrated channel

[@guilhermetonon7267]

if you think, this videos have just 46 thounsands of subscribers. But in fact, could be bigger to infinite and beyond

[@URProductions]

It's a resolution problem. Say you built a highway along the length of the coast, how long would that highway be? vs maybe how long would a footpath along the coast line be. Probably be 1000 km longer..

[@canyadigit6274]

I loved this video

[@zxbigmikexz]

_"The sea comes in and goes out twice every day."_ *Confused Gulf of Mexico*

[@arieltisson9076]

Are all the animations in each video made by you? Insane work, man and you inspire me, as I have my own channel, I just started out. ;) (not this account tho)

[@AtlasPro1]

All the research, writing, voice, animations and editing done by me, you can definitely do it too :)

[@arieltisson9076]

I can do a bit, but nothing too insane, what platform/software do you use to edit and animate?

[@arieltisson9076]

I use DaVinci Resolve 14 to edit and animate

[@AtlasPro1]

Just adobe premiere, then I make the images and text in photoshop

[@arieltisson9076]

@@AtlasPro1 Nice! Keep up the good work! #ShamelessSelfpromotion kzbin.info/door/6GuaICLYocoaTBApSMqRog xD

[@uwunora]

This doesn't apply to landlocked countries right?

[@AtlasPro1]

Well some landlocked countries may have littoral coastlines borders, borders defined by lakes, and so it may still apply in some cases.

[@DrewPicklesTheDark]

The #1 question about coastline people realistically ask is "Can a trade and/or military port fit here?"

[@rachelmitchell5738]

1:44 Tiny pet peeve: the tide does the same thing on opposite sides of the Earth. If the tide is coming in on this side, it’s also coming in on the other side.

[@rachelmitchell5738]

Do you have a tide video?

[@emil6209]

So what is the most common way that is used to get the numbers on Wikipedia? Did people agree on something? And amazing videos! Informative and interesting.

[@hand-jobs]

"it's like trying to measure a fractal" Ahem, it is measuring a fractal being changed by moving fractals

[@David-wc8ze]

Well done.

[@caodogao4327]

Facebook Status Update: Relationship with Coast Line Measure -> It's complicated...

[@aoaoaaoaoao889]

Cão Dogão h

[@caodogao4327]

@@aoaoaaoaoao889 random letter for you too, random citizen.

[@davidmeer9890]

What do you think should be the standard measurement? What would your solution to that river question be? Would you count lake coast as coast?

[@AtlasPro1]

I think if we took the average between low and high tide, a measurement as big as a foot or even a meter would be fine. Most of the smaller characteristics of the coastline aren't permanent anyways. I think the first option I gave for the river problem seems the best. I don't really think lakes should could, even big ones like the great lakes. Possibly a different number, interior coastline, could be used instead.

[@LeSethX]

I don't think there are any lakes that border the ocean. If so, technically they wouldn't be a lake, but rather a bay or gulf. (Although looking on Gmaps, Lake Ontario is connected to the ocean via river so that makes it a murky definition).

[@AtlasPro1]

true, but lakes still have coastlines, there are beaches all around the great lakes. Just something else to think about.

[@LeSethX]

But doesn't measuring a coastline only matter when considering the ocean or other international waters, eg the Caspian Sea? Interior lakes or bodies of water would irrelevant. We wouldn't measure Lake Michigan for USA's coast, else probably Canada would have the largest coastline. (And then there would a debate on what counts as a lake).

[@AtlasPro1]

well Canada already has the largest coastline. But it still could be important for international disputes. The paradox also applies to rivers, which are possibly even more problematic, and lots and lots of political entities use rivers to define borders. It could be the difference of using the navy vs the coast guard for certain situations. Of course it's nitpicky, but no one said it wouldn't be.

[@golden_smaug]

How do grographers measure a coastline? I mean do they do it on a map, or walk all the way beside the sea with one of those wheels?

[@AtlasPro1]

They used to go along the coast, either on foot or boat. Now it's mostly satellites.

[@LeSethX]

So that's why the Soviet era had better maps that the US Geological Survey of the US during the Cold War...

[@ravfromsweden]

How small would the biggest units have to be for you to get the Wikipedia measurement?

[@user-iv1qq3vb9j]

Great vid!

[@AtlasPro1]

thank you!

[@frankblangeard8865]

What is missing is the practical application of the number reached. What changes if the number changes?

[@lonestarr1490]

See the comment by URProductions.

[@Poquihuf]

Measure the total area a kilometer or so away from a coastline, rather than the length of the coastline.

[@JIMIIXTLAN]

Like your videos this one I am asking what's the point maybe for egg head types why would someone care about the distance of the coastline down to the atom WHY

[@abheeshtajani4386]

Well tell me what they do to give us those digits ?

[@Mustacheman17]

Our whole earth is a small part of the fractal that is our universe.

[@reminiscence8641]

2:25 its Bangladesh's map....right?

[@vicant_deadangelsnight2168]

Of course it gonna get bigger because were now measuring land that was missed to find the exact answer we just have to measure all the land surronding the country

[@jacondo2731]

like this happens in my country "algeria" where the measures of the coast line are between 1600 km or 1400 but NASA estimates it to be 998 btw good video.

[@djamelben9221]

tahiya l wlid bladi (azul a miss n tmurt) translation: salutation to the son of my land in arabic (and berber)

[@riptidemonzarc3103]

Tide goes in, tide goes out...can you explain that?

[@wakanohana]

Are you gaining 15k subs a day?

[@tomkastelic6835]

this is a test if you do read them

[@DaviSilva-oc7iv]

So I think we must have a generic coastline measurement since it always changes.

[@tanvirmofid8730]

Is that the coast of Bangladesh at 2:25?

[@BlueMarble22]

I don't know that you're accurate in stating that the coastline would approach infinity as the "measuring unit" approaches the smallest measurable unit. Rather, I believe this number would be something resembling what one could call 'the true length of the coastline'. Likely a longer measurement than the current ones as it would be more specific. Mathematically, as the measuring unit becomes smaller and the number of that unit increases the variation in overall percentage change in the coastline's length is smaller relative to the percentage change in the measuring unit. Hence, the relationship between a change in unit and the corresponding change in coastline length isnt linear. It is increasing at a decreasing rate until it can be said to have a responsivity of near zero. That is, there will be a point, where making the unit of measurements smaller will only make but an infinitesimally small difference in the recorded coastline length. Not that it actually matters....I was just looking for opportunities for procrastination at work. Excellent vidéo! love the channel :)

[@PiotrDzialak]

There is no infinite lenght. It is like a circle, the smaller the unit the longer the measurement, if you put them inside the circle. If you put them outside the circle, the smaller the unit the smaller the measurment. So, the smaller the unit the most ACCURATE the measurements, with the most accurate when the unit is indifinitely small (close to 0). And mathematics can deal with that. Or, you can just take a string unfold along the coast all the way around the island and later measure the lenght of the string.

[@boriszakharin3189]

How is it measured in practice then?

[@kantdrawl3328]

If Wikipedia says it, it must be true.

[@karl-oppa5261]

Kant Drawl gud b8 m8

[@lonestarr1490]

It's also just an approximation.

[@xXx-nm4jw]

Why don't we use distance measuring wheel? @Atlas Pro

[@Paakku97]

The method for measuring is not really the issue, we can accurately measure distances from satellites data also. The difficulty is in defining where the coastline actually goes and how accurately do we want to attempt to measure it. We would need to determine *exactly* where the coastline goes to exactly measure it, but determining it is very difficult.

[@creamygoodness42]

I like your videos and find them very interesting but PLEASE cut down on the mouse click sound effects!

[@maritzavanas1176]

my brain exploded

[@After4th]

Moreso with coastlines full of fjords.

[@peanut12345]

It's not a paradox, It's the method of measure. If its "real" ,do not drive a car on the "infinite" road.

[@mukkaar]

I personally think we should measure our coastlines at atom level.

[@swapanzameen6302]

2:24 the largest Delta on the Planet in Bengal

[@amehak1922]

I'd say do half mile or half km chunks

[@batatino8805]

Did you know that the uk coastline has a fractal dimension of 2.2?

[@robert_costello]

This sounds like a bureaucratic nightmare 😂 no one will ever be happy. Proposal… I’ll smoke a really big joint and measure it myself 👍🏼

[@zucced2087]

Why not simply agree to a unit that could be used universally? Like one meter for example.

[@lonestarr1490]

That how they do it. That's how they ended up with 5152 km. But still it's worth pointing out that this is nothing but an estimate. An approximation from below (and there can't ever be an upper bound).

[@LazloVimes]

Sounds like a semantics argument.

[@mercurywoodrose]

guess what he says: the coastline is an artefact of our consciousness, an epiphenomenon created by the interface between liquids and solids. there is no line that can be defined as the coastline, its a convenient or useful descripton, but it doesnt exist outside our minds.

[@uwunora]

Do you have a discord server?

[@AtlasPro1]

Never really learned what that is :/

[@uwunora]

@@AtlasPro1 A chatting platform that tries to combine TeamSpeak with Skype. I could make a server for you if you want, I'm @Emil#1000

[@AtlasPro1]

Interesting, I’ll look more into it! Thank you :)

[@jackwilliams902]

couldn’t you just use limits to figure out what the coastline length is approaching?

[@sakibhossain6230]

2:24 wow! Bangladesh

[@golden_smaug]

At first I read the Cloverfield Paradox xd

[@AtlasPro1]

that's my next video :P

[@teenygecko716]

You said that you read the comments but can you read this one?

[@nhrahat188]

Bangladesh's Coastline😍😍

[@salzkasten]

Studying maths I seriously doubt the circumference of a real object can diverge at all. After all it will be limited.

[@random_shit_online6104]

It depends like there are infinite rational numbers between two specified quantities

[@salzkasten]

@@random_shit_online6104 the number of steps is limited by quantization though. At least by Planck length

[@michaelpezzano1887]

Its not infinite you didnt do enough size reductions sure you could keep subdividing and you technically reach infinite but ull still should have finite number its a limit then also you try to make the argument because the coast line is changing but if you are going to measure a coast wouls you take a snap shot arial photograph the coast line at a particular time 8 o clock on tuesday either way coast lines are measurable

[@aatkarelse8218]

Rip OCD people !

[@andrewmichalski3666]

Can’t you just use definite integrals in order to get a more accurate measurement?

[@Swoost]

the length would definitely not approach infinity. dont use a mathematical statement non-chalantly

[@Swoost]

@Ńøt Ïdk not when the components of matter are quantized

[@Swoost]

@Ńøt Ïdk yes but the smallest path we can reach is that between individual atoms, and that is quantized

[@Swoost]

@Ńøt Ïdk how so? not along a straight path. that's the entire point here, we are approximating a non-straight path with a series of straight lines, but the smallest straight lines we can get to is those between atoms, presumably in the sand crystals on the beach, and that distance CAN be defined. unless you are saying that the contour of the beach goes down to a scale many magnitudes smaller than an atom?

[@Swoost]

@Ńøt Ïdk well of course. how can a real number equal infinity when infinity is not a number it is a concept. tends to infinite means approaching infinity, which is exactly what im talking about.

[@spark131]

0:15 hey i live there

[@barackobama8869]

Ok, so an fucking Aussie told me that they invited the so called “coastline” and looked it up, I found no evidence. Please, can someone explain what he meant

[@josevillanueva6225]

Dimensión: 2.9999999999999

[@ij184]

Calculus saves the day tho right?

[@NostalgicMem0ries]

why dont world just make one static measurements for example 1 meter and then measure each country coastlines? then put that in statistics and state what year it was made. In 10 20 years they can do it again and it would remove this paradox :)

[@BigboiiTone]

Wow can you say the numbers faster? You're going a tad slow for me

[@SSchithFoo]

Well context matters. It is like saying sexual harrasment is not possible because at an atomic level we can't really touch anything.

[@o12jordan]

Music is annoying a bit.

[@vicant_deadangelsnight2168]

Just outline the country to find the size