The Collapse of the Carolingian Empire - Echoes of History - Extra History

[@extrahistory]

Charlemagne built an empire, only for his descendants to tear it apart. Does its collapse still echo today? Support us on Patreon! www.patreon.com/extracredits

[@Unusederas]

I think so, Great episode!

[@nathanwoerpel6392]

Never does a great empire last longer than it's creator.

[@srvaudiau]

Interesting take. I never really gave much thought the origin of the conflicts between Western and Central Europe. I knew it involved territory and resources, but didn't really take into account what could have caused this.

[@legoworksstudios1]

So that's why France, Germany and Italy are all connected either through peace or war. But question is: What would've happened if there wasn't any infighting between the sons? Even if it is unlikely? And to answer your question, I say yes. But it's amazing how so many wars involving this part of Europe were all because of some brothers squabbling over the same landmass.

[@LordBloodySoul]

This is a very interesting notion. It does show that dividing something can cause war of epic proportions throughout history...

[@GeneralLuigiTBC]

And that is why no Crusader Kings II player I know of keeps gavelkind once primogeniture is available.

[@inirlan]

Unless you're playing Irish, in which case you go Tanistry if you've got any sense. Buddhist would have the best succession system, but I rarely venture towards the Indian subcontinent.

[@ekimekim30001]

Gavelkind can actually be fine if you're good at heir management. Example: Marry someone infertile, have a lot of affairs, have a lot of bastards. Pick the best one to be your heir and legitimise them. You only ever have one heir, but you still get the gavelkind bonuses to demesne, etc. Crusader Kings II players are horrible people.

[@moosemeesen3174]

13 hours ago?

[@mondegreen9227]

gavelkind is a sin

[@JonathanLundkvist]

I do - If for example the main title is a kingdom and the others are dukedoms.

[@TerrorBlades]

"Your Council has voted against Primogeniture succession law"

[@isaiahnesheim2971]

*SCREEMS IN UN HOLY FURY*

[@Ethan-cz8xq]

Sounds like our spymaster has a new job

[@RamdomView]

But councils don't vote on succession law.

[@jysgaming2934]

Alex Ye if they are empowered they do

[@thelittleagustus.2292]

Sounds like a bad dlc

[@blockmasterscott]

I feel sorry for the son caught in the middle lol. "Gee Dad, thanks for nothing!"

[@Alexander-tu3iv]

His line would come to rule Italy, and his desendants were the last Carolingians to hold land IIRC.

[@BurningSunBloodyMoon]

That would be King Lothair II (King Lothair I being Charlemagne's son and successor). The realm he ruled was named "Lotharingia" after him, because there was nothing distinct about, apart form the fact that he ruled it. :P

[@blockmasterscott]

Marvin oh, so he scored then. That's cool!

[@GTAram855]

And from the name Lotharingia came Lorraine / Lothringen.

[@rebelbeammasterx8472]

It did become Italy, so there's that.

[@cebonvieuxjack]

3:04 congrats, you've just described Switzerland.

[@kingseirios4277]

make sense how switzerland stay neutral for so long in many european conflicts

[@krisgavin2568]

haha

[@canemcave]

@@kingseirios4277 Switzerland was never neutral in many European conflicts, neutrality is a very recent thing.

[@juancarlosdegoya2757]

@@canemcave well I mean, considering the last time was 1816, it's not THAT recent

[@animatorofanimation128]

Belgium as well lol

[@andriyg1244]

Interesting fact: The imperial crown (Reichskrone), or crown of Charlemagne, was created more than one century after he passed away...

[@stephenlancedennee513]

cool.

[@Siegbert85]

At least...

[@petergray2712]

To further elaborate: Charlemagne kicks the bucket in 813 and the throne goes to his sole surviving issue, Louis the Pious. Louis dies in 840, and his demenses are divided into three among his sons: Lothair (Born 795) got Middle Francia; Louis II (802) got East Francia/Germany, and Charles the Bald (823, and was actually quite hairy) got West Frankia AKA France. The two eldest sons were already co-kings, and they rebelled against their father BEFORE he died, in 830, when he tried to make their half-brother Charles a co-king (and that's the nub of everything that will follow). Lothair deposes his father in 832, daddy gets restored in 833 and deprives Lothair of his title and gives it to Charles. Lothair's allies rebel in 834, and Louis the Pious is deposed again. Louis dies in 840, but before that he names Lothair emporer. After death the bros rebel and Lothair is decisively defeated at Fontenay-en-Puisaye, 25 June 841. The brothers come to parley the following year, and the Empire was divided as detailed above. Lothair dies in 855, and divides the kingdom among his three sons: Louis II ( eldest, gets imperial title and Italy), Lothair II (Lotharingia- basically the skinny long part of Middle Frankia stretching down from the North Sea to the Alps) and Charles (Provence). Lothair II died young, and his only son was declared illegitimate, so Lotharingia gets divided between his uncles Louis II of Germany and Charles the Bald. Louis II of Italy also dies without issue, and named Louis II of Germany's son Carloman, King of Bavaria, to be his successor. Louis II of Germany also has three sons, who chose their father's ways to emulate... by rebelling while he was still alive. And again he divides HIS realm: Carloman the eldest son gets Bavaria, Louis the Younger gets Saxony and Thuringia, and the youngest Charles the Fat (who might have been rather skinny) received Swabia and Rhaetia. Carloman becomes King of Italy after Louis of Italy dies without issue, but then suffers a stroke and gives the throne to brother Charles the Fat. Charles the Bald married twice and had seven sons, but three died in infancy and the other four all died young. Only one son, Louis the Stammerer, actually outlived the father, and then only by barely two years. His sons Carloman II and Louis III then divided West Frankia into North and South. Louis III died in accident in 882, and Carloman while hunting in 884. Neither had issue so the throne went to cousin Charles the Fat. By good luck Charles the Fat had reunited the entire Carolingian Empire without doing a damn thing but possess a heartbeat. Unfortunately Charles was an inept and lethargic ruler (he might have had epilepsy) and upon his death at the ripe old age of 48 his unified empire fell apart into five successor kingdoms that won't be reunited until Napoleon Bonaparte. But before he died, he had been overthrown by Arnulf of Carinthia, the illegitimate son of Carloman of Bavaria. Arnulf became undisputed king of East Francia, and was succeeded by his sons, the illegitimate Zwentibold (yes, that was his name) and the legit son Louis the Child. Charles the Fat had no issue, and the West Frankia crown went to his nephew Charles III the Simple, the youngest son of Louis the Stammerer, who had been cheated of his inheritance by his half brother Carloman II. Charles the Simple was succeeded by Louis IV (921-954), grandson Lothair (954-986) and finally his line ends with Louis V (986-987) who died by falling from his horse while hunting. The nobles elected Hugh Capet (descended from Charlemagne through his paternal grandmother) and the Capetian dynasty began Louis the Child had died as the last Carolingian king in East Francia, and the nobles elected Conrad, a duke, to be king. Conrad died fighting the Duke of Bavaria, and throne of East Francia passed to his rival Henry the Fowler, Duke of Saxony, who founded the Ottonian line of emporers and kings.

[@bezukaking6860]

my compliments to you Peter

[@petergray2712]

I forgot a detail: Louis III of France (died 882) died after hitting his head and falling off his horse while chasing a girl with amorous intent. He hit his head on the lintel of a door while mounting his horse, and fractured his skull on impact with the ground, mortally wounding himself. And this guy was the first European king to defeat the Vikings in battle. What a weird dynasty

[@yiyang4501]

Lorraine, one of the pieces of lands that changed hands under France and Germany (and its predecessors) numerous times, was named after ... Lotharingia, which is in turn named after Lothair's Middle Francia. When you think about it, all of these began when three sons divided the country and one of the guy got a weirdly shaped country in the middle.

[@thelightninggamerofficial8443]

Peter Gray ok

[@Strom1886]

You forgot 3 kings in West Frankia (Eudes (888-898), his brother Robert I (922-923), he was the grandfather of Hugues Capet and at last Raoul (923-936), he was the son-in-law of Robert I

[@TurlasThe6]

"Sometimes, an event echoes through history." Walpole you son of a...what did he do now!?

[@alwinpriven2400]

who's walpole?

[@jseeker1867]

Short answer: Walpole was an important British guy 300 years ago who capitalized on the biggest financial fraud bubble of all time to become prime minister. He had his fingertips in so many 'coincidental' happenings that kept his schemes rolling that we essentially turned him into a punchline.

[@exmythos7318]

Walpole is the first British Prime Minister right? Or am I mistaken?

[@Danivuk]

The biggest running joke on this channel, and the topic of the South Sea episodes.

[@Reach1335]

South Sea had nothing on the Tulip Bubble.

[@supahnubz]

Loving the Khosrau series, but afterwards... WE NEED A CHARLEMAGNE SERIES!!!😁

[@FireSpark]

You could take the entire concept of this episode and lay it over post-WW2 Middle East. A bunch of European leaders and diplomats carve up a bunch of territories without regard for the demographics contained within. And now, almost a century later, the region is practically a constant war zone. Hopefully we won't have to wait 400 years for things to calm down.

[@peroxide8823]

FireSpark As well as Africa.

[@dynamicworlds1]

And this is why learning the cause and effect patterns that drive history is the entire point...unfortunately most history teachers and textbooks just view it as a list of names and dates to memorize for....reasons?

[@PackedWolf]

It was the post-WWI treaty that made most of the present borders in the Middle East, with the exception of Israel and Palestine. Those two came out of WWII.

[@frinkls5347]

And.. India/Pakistan/Bangladesh... (Do they count as middle east?)

[@Mathignihilcehk]

I don’t think the concept holds any water here. I think the bigger issue with the Middle East is that they are not yet actual nations, and are slowly becoming so, we hope. Before WW1, European nations were the only real nations, mostly... and I mean that in terms of the ability to exert total control of their region. otherwise, nations existed as part of larger empires, or away from them. After WW2, the world was reduced to 2 nations. The others existed away from or as part of those two, never in peer-peer conflict. The Middle East needs to find its own sovereignty such that either they aren’t part of US/Russia, or they are part of one only... that or US/Russia needs to end their eternal cold war, which seems unlikely. Thankfully it has died down, but it’s absolutely the dominant factor in the Middle East right now. If neither Russia nor the US sent support to the Middle East someone would win and peace would be established. If only one side sent support they would win and peace. If the two stopped fighting then we’d all win. But if they continue to fight proxy wars in the Middle East... sucks to be in the Middle East, I guess.

[@ElPikminMaster]

Something something borders drawn without consideration of its people... The Middle East in a nutshell.

[@Fpwc2]

And colonial Africa

[@Achiles5th]

Literally half the world post-imperialism in a nut shell.

[@musicaltrash8819]

lel

[@VCYT]

Because arabs need europeans to prevent them fighting, an still do.

[@Touchii]

Afrika

[@tenebrisscarrow3140]

'You know, we'll just make the borders of the middle east arbitrary, 'cus' that went so well for us a few centuries back' - Sykes-Picot

[@brianhall4182]

I was thinking much the same thing. How many of the issues the middle east faces today come from the arbitrarily drawn borders created after WW1?

[@GearyDigit]

Compounded with the governments that arose being constantly overthrown by foreign interests, you've got a recipe for turmoil.

[@Ziorac]

I was checking the comments for this exact statement. Man, we really need to start learning from history. I feel like if everyone who SAYS we should actually DID, the world would be a much better place....

[@neeneko]

The problem with learning from history is not everyone takes away the same lesson. Look at the turmoil in the middle east or africa from the perspective a european aristocrat : while expensive, the cost to them is either abstract or external, someone else pays it. On the other hand, instability produces weakness, so there are fewer world class powers to compete against. So the lesson for the ruling elite in europe is that terrible borders are great for other people to have.

[@PragmaticAntithesis]

Why is that so accurate?!

[@Blazimirus]

All my fellow ck2 players know the hell that is gavelkind :D

[@haberak3310]

I don’t think I’ve ever had gravelkind. Then again, I haven’t played in way too long

[@tenkaikagaya]

It’s worth noting though that those two pieces, West Francia/France and East Francia/Germany, that caused so much chaos in Europe squabbling for control over Middle Francia/Lorraine/Low Countries/Italy are now reunited with those territories as the core of the European Union. All of the EU’s key institutions are headquartered in the middle part of Charlemagne’s old empire.

[@Alexander-tu3iv]

Agreed the EU is, if you think about it really the greatest political project undertaken in recent history, attempting to unite Europe has been the dream of countless would be conquers since the fall of Rome, a few got close, but they used violence, the EU has actually suceeded and done so through peaceful means. Now wether it will last is up to debate. And it isn't really united into a single entity. But it is still an amazing achievement, which sadly not many people seem to appreciate.

[@BurningSunBloodyMoon]

Indeed! The founding states of the EU - France, Germany, Italy, and the Benelux countries - cover almost exactly the same territory as Charlemagne's empire.

[@declanmiller9524]

I personally don't see what the hype is about unifying multiple nations, as I am completely in favor of the nation state (in such cases where it is applicable, ie africa doesn't really have too many 'true' nation-states.") To me the EU seems reminiscent of a revived roman empire, or at least some power seeking to emulate rome led once again by germany, which is pretty interesting if you ask me.

[@tenkaikagaya]

Mister Magnanimous the nation state is merely yet another step in the evolution of human civilisation, not the end step.

[@Healermain15]

Calling it united might be a bit optimistic, but we do our best :)

[@Daniele-et5ks]

In the very first page of "De bello Gallico", Roman general Giulius Caesar describes gallic society and territory before it's conquest. He says that while the peoples who lived closer to the Roman Gallia (today's Provence) were more into trading with Romans, the other Gallic Peoples fought "almost daily" with German peoples on the other side of the Rhein. I think that the succession and partition of the HRE after the death of Charlemagne helped to light up again these conflicts, but this was not the start of these "echoes"

[@Fux704]

Taking an historical event and building up a thesis, contextualizing it and connecting it to modern times is the actual making of History, an historian's job. And by the way, you did that in every single one of your previous videos, choosing one of many possible narratives about a chain of events (none of them neutral, ever) and telling us about it. It's just the job.

[@j4296]

I would love to see a story about one of the most recent forgotten empires: The Dutch golden era, where the fledgling Dutch republic shaped a lot of ideas that formed the modern economy and contributed to a lot of the identity of the USA in its early years.

[@gekkenhuisje]

Dutch History is awesome, and I'd love too see a series on them, but only Patreons can vote for future series.

[@nessesaryschoolthing]

At some point in their lives, 1 in 6 children will be abducted by the Dutch.

[@cseijifja]

Jeroen de Vries the dutch, hated by any southamerican that knows history. Fucking pirates.

[@Twinson1]

I'd love to see an episode analyzing how the Dutch culture help shape New York City or should I say New Amsterdam.

[@gekkenhuisje]

Nieuw Amsterdam ftw!

[@theliato3809]

RIP Frankish empire you were too good for this world.

[@radonrodan8332]

Rip(800-843)

[@DarkLordFromTheSecondAge]

The best Western Roman larper. Rest in peace.

[@sirwaltercrescentsneed]

Rip Lotharingia, if only Louis II wasn't fighting Muslims at the time

[@killa103728838829838]

You’ll be king of the next 😪😪😪

[@marcusfranconium3392]

Well the french tried failed the germans tried failed , Benelux tried and is succeeding.

[@ErikWarhammer]

Basicly, EVERY CRUSADER KINGS GAME EVER!

[@cordach8173]

ErikWarhammer and that's why you use primogeniture.

[@sherlocksmuuug6692]

That's why you make sure only one son survives you. (evil laughter)

[@six2make4]

As norse basically every first few years was spent with massacres of other family members, then get 50 kids and it's an endless repeating cycle until you are invaded by aztecs

[@Heranara]

GOD DAMN GAVELKIND!!!

[@MasteringJohn]

Every time I play as the bloody pre-Christian Scandinavians...

[@clarityresearch8382]

Another great video- thanks guys! As a positive "coda" to the story, the region of Lotharingia (that middle green part) is what many modern demographers call "the blue banana". This region forms the core of European innovation and productivity: Amsterdam, Brussels, Koln, Stuttgart, and Strasbourg. I would speculate that the centuries of cross-cultural connectivity has created a modern ecosystem for pan-European flourishing. One more thing- no mention of the Oaths of Strasbourg? I think you could do some episodes around this.

[@zflowes]

You can say the same thing during the scramble for Africa

[@vaiyt]

The absolute mess the African borders are today result from Westphalian sovereignty interacting with colonialism. It sounds logical to separate nations by drawing a line on a map when both sides are sitting on the table and have more or less equal interests, but another entirely when the borders are carved unilaterally by some nations in another continent who are only interested in who gets to exploit which resources.

[@Rainbowthewindsage]

Or basically anywhere you see unnaturally straightlines on a map.

[@donrog5035]

Or the division of the middle east after WWI.

[@pogeman2345]

@Chris Ramos OP was perhaps referring to how the continent was divided up into its current countries based on the partitions the European powers made.

[@hersirivarr1236]

Do you believe that the colonial European powers should have created Ethno-states in Africa and the Middle-East as a means to avoid conflict? I have to wonder if the people who claim wars in the third world are caused by ethnic divisions (diversity) in Africa are the same people that endorse diversity in Europe and North America.

[@noanisse]

Thank you for the design choice to colour code the 3 kings with the lands they got, makes it so much easier to follow than a bunch of names

[@octavianhughes4493]

Thank you! This is one of my favorite times in history because SO MUCH COULD HAVE HAPPENED

[@99batran]

I would love to see a story about a Western Roman Emperor named Majorian. He was literally one of the last Western Emperors to make an effort to restore the Roman Empire, similar to Justinian. (There's also someone that he loved that was kidnapped by the Vandals too)

[@timothymclean]

CK2 player here: Primogeniture doesn't leave out women inherently. The term just refers to "first eligible kid takes it all". Eligibility criteria are a whole separate list of jargon.

[@mondegreen9227]

akaik a lot of feudal kingdoms were strictly male-only.

[@SuperDeeyay]

Most late medieval realms went to agnatic primogeniture though. There were many disputes on female inheritors before that.

[@timothymclean]

Agnatic and agnatic-cognatic are just different kinds of what I called "eligibility criteria". Primogeniture is primogeniture.

[@mondegreen9227]

kind of unrelated but in one of my ck games aragon went cognatic primogeniture

[@ZanathKariashi]

Psh, Tannistry is best Succession Law. Let those non-Celt savages have their silly Primogenitures and what not.

[@TheSpearkan]

Do Not Pick Gavelkind Succession

[@CanoCanoCan0]

I will pick Gavelkind succession >:]

[@doggod106]

Shrimp! Heaven! Now!

[@user-lm8ke9sz5n]

It's familiar

[@PineappleLiar]

We cant keep doung this

[@daveburgess839]

Aeddon Irwin but not too familiar

[@AhMotherland]

But not too not familiar

[@musicaltrash8819]

Jimmy we can't keep doing this

[@eyuin5716]

Perhaps do a video series on the life of Charlemagne in the future?

[@gekkenhuisje]

I've ben working on a mod for EUIV called "Rise of Middle Francia". While I'm not a good modder, I'm learning as I go. This was interesting food for thought.

[@kalvincastro9042]

John Meyer So basically “Rise of Burgundy”.

[@tommarch.4493]

@@kalvincastro9042 not exactly, Burgundy wasn't everything in middle Francia, Middle Francia had a part of this very important duchy but they had many more important location like, Roma, Aix, Lyon, Provencia, Ruhr, ect

[@eduardotheraccoon3113]

@@tommarch.4493 Ruhr? im pretty sure the Ruhr area was in east francia, unless you are talking about a different Ruhr (im talking about the Ruhr between westfalen and niedersachsen)

[@tommarch.4493]

@@eduardotheraccoon3113 not at the time of the division of the Duchy of Burgundy

[@raymondhu7720]

1:20 : GOSH DARN IT GAVELKIND SUCCESION!

[@ohgoshtro]

One of the best history channel around.

[@tiffanyh5760]

History is always about brothers killing each others when the dad dies.

[@mattwoodard2535]

Badly drawn boarders isn't just a problem in Europe. Some states (and in United States) have just about gone to war with each other over boarders. And they STILL fight about them (in the courts thankfully) in a few places.

[@Madhattersinjeans]

I look forward to the day borders are no longer important, when national identity isn't a thing. Probably not in my lifetime though.

[@nathanvarda7104]

Matt Woodard *Toledo Strip*

[@LAHFaust]

Mad Hatters in jeans The only way national identity will ever fade away is through the birth of planetary or corporate identity. A borderless planet is pipe-dream.

[@lettuceprime4922]

LAHFaust - Why is planetary identity a pipe-dream?

[@alecshockowitz8385]

Way too difficult feasibly without total control of all people as I see it. More really more than total control, more extreme even than the most extreme regimes of history.

[@eternalvirgin2227]

To put it simply France draws there border based on The Rhine Germany draws there border based on Demographics

[@guguss3804]

Eternal Virgin Tell that to Poland :P

[@agmaster12]

I'm so happy that Extra Credits listens to MBMBaM

[@Tomasz0216]

This was a fantastic video! Would love to see more videos like this. Also, think you guys can do a great video on Poland and the Warsaw Uprising, Poland and Germany, Battle of Westerplatte, and more. Keep it up!!

[@darth1nsidious726]

This video is all wrong It was Walpole

[@frankdantuono2594]

It's always Walpole.

[@ihaveagun22]

WALPOL!

[@jackkennedy4101]

Hi darth

[@jasperscott7879]

it's just suggesting that the French are also Walpole

[@darth1nsidious726]

Murble Mug Guten Tag

[@holtjohnson]

Out of all my subscribed channels this is only channel i genuinely get excited when a new historical episodes arrives. Keep up the great work!

[@ppg7373]

Germany vs. France :who wins ? What ever side Great Britain chooses

[@dynamicworlds1]

3 way conflicts are kinda like that. Hell, there's a game called "diplomacy" that is that principle distilled into a pure form.

[@Damo2690]

Fredrik Dunge Well England isn't Great Britain so it can still be true

[@ppg7373]

Fredrik Dunge England has only to fund the invincible quadruple alliance between England ,Luxemburg,Lichtenstein,Vatican city

[@agihammerthief8953]

True, England is not Great Britain, it's my city.

[@Damo2690]

Britain as a nation has ALWAYS had a smaller Army than their rivals, a fact we take pride in. No opposed foreign invader has taken any part of Britain in the last 1000 years. Besides," the British Army is a projectile to be fired by the Royal Navy"

[@megabyte01]

Nice one-shot episode! I learned about Charlemagne and the Holy Roman Empire in school, but I didn't realize that France and Germany had a direct cultural ancestor in Charlemagne like that! Alsp, and don't take this the wrong way because I love Extra History and want to continue watching it for as long as you guys can make it, but if you had to draw the series to a close, I feel like the conclusion you used for today's episode would still be a fitting one for the entire series. Again, I love the series and I can't wait to see what's next!

[@ntpgmr]

Crusader Kings 2, when you have Gavelkind as your succession law.

[@jackkerger164]

The art is looking freakin' slick in this episode.

[@Vortigernrex]

Would like to see a continuation of this. I'm working on an early medieval game based around this time. The resources for battlefield makeup of forces, small unit tactics, command and control, etc are somewhat spotty. All I can see is that there was more to it than just two mobs charging - there clearly was a battlefield control system that was effective, up to a point.

[@thomasmattingly3150]

I clicked on the (i) when it asked "Who decided these borders?" and the first item to appear? "It was Walpole" t-shirt. Brilliant.

[@collin7095]

you should do a series on either the boxer rebellion or late 19th century american expansion much love

[@DylanDude]

BIGCLEAN Late Manifest Destiny? Not much to talk about, aside from the expansion into the declining Spanish Empire. Perhaps the Texan Revolution?

[@paulchapman8023]

The idea of a group of siblings squabbling over inheritance is clearly an idea that resonates regardless of time and place. I was immediately reminded of King Lear (and one of its most famous film adaptations, "Ran").

[@Arcadius2207]

Extra History you should made the Spanish succession war now you mentioned twice in the great north war and this video... Make it guys!!😊

[@timomastosalo]

Very well thought over. I haven't really anything to add. I often look at these types of incidents in history, the key turning points felt centuries afterwards.

[@oboretaiwritingch.2077]

So after Carolus Rex, we come to Carolus Magnus. Hmm...

[@papercurse2162]

Reito Shizaki Well where did you think Carolus got his name from? ;D Funnily enough Karl Martell, the grandfather of Charlemagne is basically the first person ever with the name Karl and wich Charlemagne then inherited.

[@legionxiii8055]

Reito Shizaki Has Sabaton made a song on Charlemagne?

[@TwinHuginHelmet]

Nope. Chrisopher Lee has made an heavy metal declamation album on Charlemagne though. It's not particularly good, but probably the closest we'll get. Besides, Sabaton focuses on specific battles, the occassional units, and famous commanders for the most part. While Charlemagne did indeed unite vast swathes of land, he was never known for the physical courage that Sabaton tends to favour. He was an administrator and a general, rather than a warrior(As any ruler should be).

[@OneJazzyBoye]

Who knows, maybe next we'll get a series on the Austro-Turkish war, maybe the battle of Vienna. Y'know, where THE WINGED HUSSARS ARRIVED!

[@ottifant64]

Free Form Jazz God, are you from Poland?

[@vector5563]

Your timing is incredible Extra Credits just started learning about the Carolingians in history class

[@walterw8223]

Talk about a third wheel. So if that third brother never had existed the most bloody wars in human history might never have come to pass. This together with the Treaty of Westphalia and that lost driver in Sarajevo must be the biggest "oh you got to be kidding me!" moments in human history... so far. Not sure yet about that Florida recount back in 2000 or the last election in US for that matter... On the other hand we have averted nuclear annihilation a handful of times thanks to some brave American and Soviet/Russian individuals, who kept their heads cool sitting there in various hot situations. Not to mention those unfortunate Ukrainian firemen and workers, heroes who gave their lives in Chernobyl, preventing a much bigger disaster and probably saving more than half of Europe and a large part of Russia from being a radioactive macncheese wasteland.

[@pliniomelo6295]

Walter W hey can you please illuminate me on what the heck was the peace of westaphalia and why it was such a big deal?

[@walterw8223]

Ah such delicate matters can only be described by Steven Fry and Hugh Laurie. kzbin.info/www/bejne/mV66gGppec1qqLs

[@BurningSunBloodyMoon]

Plinio Melo I'm no expert, but I believe the Peace of Westphalia was the agreement that ended the 30 Years War - an incredibly big, long, and bloody war that was initially sparked by conflicts over Protestants and Catholics in the Holy Roman Empire (Germany), but spiralled out of control as Europe's great powers threw in their lot with one side or the other, bringing their rivalries with them. There are a number of reasons it's such a big deal - it resolved a lot of outstanding issues in Europe at the time, ended one of the most destructive wars Europe had ever seen, reduced the influence of the Catholic Church in Northern Europe, and so on. But the main reasons it's usually considered such a big deal is because it helped define how we think about international relations. It created a basis for national self-determination, entrenched the concept of the "Balance of Power" between numerous great powers, and defined state sovereignty as a state having sovereignty over its territory and domestic affairs to the exclusion of all external powers on the principle of non-interference - a concept known as "Westphalian sovereignty". These principles form an underlying basis for the powers of states and interactions between them even today.

[@walterw8223]

WaT? How can the third brother also be the oldest? Does not compute! Does not compute!

[@declanmiller9524]

he was the original brother, but OP assumed he probably wasn't as he seemingly was the one given the scraps. However, he was crowned emperor, unlike the others.

[@solarsl7942]

You guys are the best keep doing what you are doing and never stop, you can tell story's like no other people, and it is great

[@Stejers]

After 5 years i watch this video and still surprised on how much extra history put attention to detail, the son of lothair that inherited west fracia was called charles 'the bald' and that was why one of the sons was bald

[@galacticvagabond9772]

Fabulous and interesting channel. I really enjoy the wide array of subjects that you touch on. Keep up the excellent work!

[@TheBoundFenrir]

2:00 Ah, yes...the bane of every Crusader Kings II player...

[@sturmherooflance]

As always, very insightful. Please keep producing these, they are great. One day I'll contribute on Patreon to this.

[@PitLord777]

"Duuude, I am most envious of my brother Joseph's holdings..."

[@kaizhang378]

that beginning art is amazing!! Great job extra history crew!!!

[@Nailsnake]

I love how Charles the Bald is actually bald - great attention to detail!

[@RanRanshama]

I've been binging this channel, and i had no idea how recent this episode was. Needless to say, I had a heart-attack when I saw "Shrimp! Heaven! Now!"

[@gl4487]

You guys seem to have covered the fall of many empires but what about doing an episode on the rise of one like the British empire or the unification of the German speaking states into modern Germany?

[@abbddos]

This is one of the most awesome channels... thank you very much for all the great work. I wonder if you can creat a series about the Three Kingdoms era in China

[@decode2577]

Why are some comments from hours ago, when the video was uploaded a few minutes ago?

[@extrahistory]

+Animation Smart We always let our patrons see the episode a day early! Want early access? Pledge $3/month and support the show, at patreon.com/ExtraCredits

[@decode2577]

Extra Credits oh, ok

[@diiasze3743]

its good if u let a small group of people see it first cuz they may find a error in the video like in video games

[@Mandemon1990]

I think your patreon system might be broken, it keep sending me links to sneak peak even why I am no longer giving money. Not that I complain, but I feel like I am cheating...

[@LordOrio]

i think its Patreons problem, not theyrs, as it is not theyr website, so you shoud repor it to website owners

[@NelsonStJames]

Sitting here and actually thinking about it, it's funny how I now look more forward to Extra History eps than I do the gaming videos that introduced me to this channel -- not that I don't still like videos about the inner workings of games, but I like the thrill I get at the idea that I'm about to learn something new about history that I'd never known before.

[@definedsir6971]

Timurid empire Mughal empire Ibn Khaldun Sassanid empire Mamluk Sultanate Kushan empire Greco-Bactria Alexander's generals fighting over territory

[@BurningSunBloodyMoon]

I'd love to see an episode on Greco-Bactria and the Indo-Greek Kingdom!

[@blitzkrieg2928]

Sassanid empire Mamluk Sultanate Great cataphracts/mamluks Greco-Bactria Alexander's generals fighting over territory Also intresting

[@merrittanimation7721]

The Sykes-Picot agreement

[@kolsveinnskraevolding]

TIMURIDS. They are basically the most Metal people in Islamic history.

[@Madhattersinjeans]

Why choose one when you can choose everything...

[@janelleg597]

this narrator is the best narrator

[@imaboisir7227]

Do you know what happend?

[@janelleg597]

@@imaboisir7227 sadly, no

[@Jane-go2nw]

5:16 gotta love those Mcelroy boys

[@BobboByrnes]

Brilliant. Lots to think about here.

[@jjkthebest]

Anyone who's ever played CK2 knows the benefits of primogeniture

[@S3Bayaya]

The way charlemagne was divided reminded me about the Three Kingdom in China and how they were distributed. It was really brilliant, if you look how it would not allow you to just simply attack the other country without having serious alliance with the other.

[@mockz2327]

Now i want to play Crusader kings 2 again.

[@PharmerJohn1]

Man I love your videos and I hope they never end.

[@giantkitten910]

and that's why there ain't no karlingblob

[@michaelsampson8876]

My favorite history series referencing my favorite podcast with my favorite boys? It's a blessed day

[@thunderbird7936]

How?

[@runedova126]

Extra History is so good!!!

[@ackershus6276]

Interesting point of view. Thanks guys, really cool episode!

[@6principlesforcartography61]

If Charlemagne’s empire was able to exist, European history will be totally different.

[@KermRiv]

I miss this narration and writing style, this channel is a shell of itself now. I'll always be happy to come to these videos though.

[@smiles5168]

Dan what's your favorite soda?

[@vinaymane5538]

BIG BOI fizzy bubbelech

[@frenchfryguy2012]

Honestly, i think this is better than Crash Course, Shame i never found it earlier. These videos started as advertisement videos for Total War Games and they ended up better than most history channels on youtube.

[@googolplexbyte]

I don't imagine there'd be a similar result if the slices had been horizontal.

[@DemagogueBibleStudy]

That would have made even less sense.

[@PongoXBongo]

That would've been even worse for Middle Frankia, being without any coastline.

[@skeletonrowdie1768]

Nice disclaimer in the beginning, the internet really needs that

[@martonk]

*Treaty* *of* *Trianon* *intensifyes*

[@gabrielbrennan4149]

Literally just read about this for class. Cool video :) Also the middle section was taken over because the son who ruled over it wanted to expand his section and the other two brothers formed a truce against him. You also mentioned the rise of feudalism after the collapse of Charlemagnes empire- this economic mindset crept into the church and sadly added to its corruption, since leaders (many of whom joined for power rather than purpose in the first place) ended up focusing on defending/expanding their territory, instead of having gov stability under which they could flourish in helping others. Again, cool video - I love this series. Sorry my comments weren't too eloquently written lol.

[@ram61504]

Very cool and interesting!!

[@robk1990]

This is really good! You should do a series on Charlemagne

[@deandoyledeandoyle]

*Hot* MBMBAM reference!

[@chrisbritt4266]

Excellent video and idea something to definitely think about

[@Lawoftalos12]

The middle kingdom is the definiton of switzerland

[@OlukoTheGrand]

it split apart pretty quick so not really

[@SlavicBoi]

I would love to see a whole series of Charlemagne and his legacy, I love that era

[@thomasdoyle6812]

I miss Middle Francia

[@urahara64360]

I love rewatching these and finding hidden mbmbam and adventure zone references

[@רוני-ש8צ]

this is the start of the hre

[@davididiart5934]

Oh man. The Division of the Carolingian Empire is one of my FAVORITE What-Ifs of history!

[@angramainyu676]

1:56 *CK2 FLASHBACKS*

[@legatereme1983]

That's why you kill your son's (or daughter's)

[@primary2630]

I just started playing CK3 and the Italy portion took over West Francia, and I'm Lotharingia and can confirm the long border is rough

[@seanthebean99]

Daniel, we can't keep doing this.

[@user-lm8ke9sz5n]

What's up you cool baby

[@lorrainemunoa791]

Tripped over this poking around in the archive of this channel. This is basically how I explain my name to people. "Lorraine is a place?" "Yes, it's in Europe. One of those places where every time everybody nearby wants to hold a war they do it there."

[@ITSTHEMCP2]

Who Want To Be King

[@weldonwin]

Who Wants To Live Forever

[@cielopachirisu929]

Me! *stabs the next commenter!*

[@soobaroo8253]

The church says no!

[@SebAnders]

Zachary Durocher Time for some mass regicide!

[@elitegamer9310]

Who wants to be rich?

[@BenItsa]

Despite Dürer's painting, Charlemagne never wore that crown, since it was made two centuries after his death. But excellent video as usual!