The Colour of White - When did Greek Statues become White?

[@chanaheszter168]

More implications for modern taste also. How do you defend blankness and minimalism as part of a classical aesthietic?

[@jerryc8096]

It seems that in their haste to correct the previous all-white aesthetic, the colorist advocates have tended to overdo the point. When things settle down, scholars will probably find that the intensely garish coloring characterizes the archaic and provincial productions, - or nouveaux riche patrons like our Kardashians. The classical and Hellenistic periods came to prize more subtle shadings, such as what we see on more recently discovered statues from upper-class villas at Herculaneum and Oplontis that preserve their original coloring.

[@Kitsaplorax]

Roman tiled mosaic were very, very bright. Kardashian precursors were the folks paying for art, after all. Most pigments are fugitive, and fade, even if well preserved, especially after centuries. Rich people could afford more exotic and expensive pigments. Tin versus gold leafing.

[@micahbush5397]

I expect that the bold colors wouldn't have stayed so bright for long, given the outdoor exposure and omnipresence of smoke from wood fires.

[@EgoEroTergum]

I saw a professor on this suggest that if one preferred plain marble then it made one a fascist, and that kind of made me lose the plot tbh. I like the concept, but if the paint lacks the fidelity of the sculpture, it just ends up detracting from the overall piece. They should do the color-recreations in conjunction with professional makeup artists, assuming the painters of antiquity took as much care in their craft as the sculptors.

[@Doctor_Faustus]

The addition of colour definitely unlocks a new dimension to ancient art. Though firstly unpleasing to look at due to its garishness, I grew to love polychromy reconstructions. The lack of colour is a phenomenon that not only alienates ancient art, but also the art of the middle ages, especially the Gothic movement. Only with the start of the Renaissance, colour began slowly to disappear in sculpture and architecture.

[@eilidhkellaway4635]

Which translation of Helen did this quote (03:04) come from? Only copy I have read was translated by James Michie and Colin Leach. Helen blames her beauty and wishes it could be "wiped clean like a picture". I would be interested to read the translation Dr Melfi's quote came from as I am writing an essay on Greek sculptures and looking for sources!

[@rijiriju]

this is the original greek text : εἴθ᾽ ἐξαλειφθεῖσ᾽ ὡς ἄγαλμ᾽ αὖθις πάλιν. it looks like it says to be wiped clean as a statue indeed, the word being ἄγαλμ(α)

[@zein9227]

This is so insightful and it is able to bridge the differences between the very colorful mosaics, figurines and small sculptures with the bleached marble statues and buildings. My only question pertains to the technological fact of lightfast iron oxide pigments. It bothers me that we haven't found any yellow or red ochres in the statue's surfaces still visible. Iron Oxide pigments are completely lightfast. What kind of medium was used as their vehicle? I'd assume wax soap tempera or animal glue distemper because those are mentioned in Pliny. Did they actually wash and weather away? In case of glue distemper I'd believe that. But pure wax soap tempera, granted a lost technique, is really durable. It forms a strong, wax crystall paint film that is water resistant like oil colours with a melting point around 70 to 80°C. It can't be all mechanical stress. What about engobe and slip painting, respectively? Obviosuly, they didn't fire their marble statures but did they use clay as a binding agent? There really is so much left to investigate.

[@lmarti204]

Lousy paint jobs and most probably not representative of how they looked originally. I wouldn’t be surprised if they looked more like the frescoe painters such as Michaelangelo. Also the use of eggs to give them a shine. A lot of upkeep and abandoned eventually most probably.

[@sherylcrowe3255]

Thank you so much for posting this lecture. It was excellent. I find this topic fascinating and wonder how modern AR augmented reality might assist in a visually accurate tool to study by as well?

[@MrJimCleary]

Excellent lecture. If we want to understand what Greek art & temples actually looked like, I think a great place to start would be modern day India, where the colour and noise of their temples can be overwhelming.

[@taotaostrong]

This is quite interesting. I do see faint colours on many of the originals. Thank you for posting!

[@owanax7137]

Interesting presentation but most of the comments below are pretty cringe

[@taotaostrong]

Very cringe. I agree with you that it’s an interesting presentation. It’s a shame that people are so combative and immature about it. 🤦🏾‍♀️

[@mdimansantoso3976]

This is a good thing to brought past to the correct one after years of worshipping the white marble sculpture and ignores the trace of colour on it

[@matthewmann8969]

Most ethnic Greeks And ethnic Roman's clearly saw there outward looks, appearances, take ins, or giveaways as different from ethnic Northern Europeans they saw there phenotypes closer to ethnic North Africans and ethnic Middle Easterners they saw themselves different look wise to ethnic Sub Saharan Africans, ethnic Desis, ethnic South East Asians, and ethnic East Asians too yeah

[@rozmarinideas5340]

I always found the blankness of the eyes of white marble statues strange. Modern monochromatic sculptures have shaped eyes that indicate the gaze of the statue and the position of iris and pupil. It actually makes a lot of sense to me that the greek statues were painted, if only for this reason alone.

[@jrjcm]

Makes sense, but the colourisation they have used makes the statutes somewhat crass: the "weathered" white looks far more noble.

[@Seegster77]

The artisans that sculpted these statues were incredibly talented. The people that painted them… not so much. 😂

[@marciocorrea8531]

You´re right: there´s ideology behind this fixation in white color.

[@theeyeandtheshield7452]

Thank you so much !

[@eliasGreek1982a]

🇪🇺👋🇬🇷👋🙏

[@abeltootlejr.300]

Very fascinating! The TRUTH sets us all free, even those who swallow it begrudgingly...It makes sense that the ancient Greeks would have used color in their sculptures! and on the male bodies in particular... Fighting nude in the sun... They valued dark skin, beautiful brown ripples in muscle and the glean of sweat along the chiseled bodies... Men could never be that chiseled and stark white in complexion...It goes against nature and common sense. The Greeks sense of beauty came from their associations with Africa--Nubia, Alexandria, Egypt...There, they saw strong, Black men in all their beauty and strength and honor and glory...The whiteness that is forced upon ancient Greek sculptures is based upon white supremacy ideologies. Its great to know scholars are debunking this myth!

[@celebalert5616]

guy was too busy writing his homoerotic fanfiction to actually look at any of the re-painted statues 😂 could sell ur fantasy writing as a new novel though, call it fifty shades of paint

[@andyhayes7828]

They were/are caucasian, certainly NOT sub saharan ( Bantu, Pygmy, Khoisan).

[@abeltootlejr.300]

Andy Greeks have African Blood flowing through their veins, no matter how hard this reality might be to accept. Greeks relished in the beauty and brains of the African and desired them sexually as much. The Greek myths and gods, hung out with AFRICAN gods...Please reread the ancient Greek plays, epics, literature and consult a classics professor at your local university for an extended reading list...Greek art is what it is BECAUSE of African history--it's classic, ancient literature, myths, gods, architecture, art, and science. @@andyhayes7828

[@marcoantoniovirbio]

The ignorance of this archaeologist in Art History is cacuminal.

[@maniacgr2617]

Im Greek and im white! Please explain.

[@giannarosize]

Άμα σε δω θα φωνάξω το αλλοδαπών 😂

[@Miki-mv4jg]

Maybe you are Macedonian if you are white.

[@maniacgr2617]

@@Miki-mv4jg No, i am not Macedonian Helene,something very close, my origin is from Epirus.

[@ShiningGalaxy01]

@@Miki-mv4jg Macedonians are Greek. The word Macedonia means North in Greek.

[@wisedragon173]

@@Miki-mv4jg Greeks are white and the painted statues show white folks . Besides, in which planet do white people have the skin color of marble?

[@kostasangisoulaki912]

Greeks n Italians were seen as white in Australia until recently

[@wisedragon173]

Well in Europe Italians and Greeks were always seen as white and since when do white people have the skin colour of marble stone? The painted statues show white people. So, I don't get your point.

[@farisayeim554]

@@wisedragon173 is okay not to have an ancient history

[@DOMINNIMOD198]

White is a bullshit term invented by Americans to undermine European heritage. Europe is home to many different races, nordics, slavics, mediterranean, alpinids, gypsies... Yet they call us white to be able to blame all of us for the problems of the third world and muh colonization

[@PeterWestinghouse]

Not true; during the heyday of the British Empire, it was common for British and Colonial military (such as Anzacs) to refer to actual Greeks and Italians (particularly Greeks) as WOGS!! But in contradiction British academia and imperial intellectuals considered themselves as the natural inheritors of classical Greeks and Romans. The British elites desired to claim the ancient glories of Greece and Rome; but their jealous xeno-contempt of the existing people would not allow them to associate those same people with their classical ancestors. As George Orwell termed it: "Double-Think". Whatever suits their power objectives.

[@abeadfan3885]

Thanks for adding some historical accuracy to this discussion. Some Greek people are lighter, creamy skinned and others are beautifully (olive) brown all year round. We know that the population of Greece and diaspora Greeks are pretty diverse in terms of ethnic heritage, like most of the other Mediterranean and Balkan peoples. History has added to the melting pot. But in my opinion (as someone with Greek and northern European heritage), Greek people are not white. Categories like white and black are arguably unhelpful, overly broad, usually racist descriptors forced on people. The fact that when Greek people emigrated to countries where 'white' people are the majority, and are understood to be a minority, and have been subject to racist abuse and assumptions, suggests categorizing them (us) as white is inappropriate at best, potentially offensive at worst.

[@sigurfeanaro3356]

Complete bullshit revisionism... They were MUCH brighter than that. And I was there... Wait WHAT? - You ask me? Yes, I was there..!

[@sigurfeanaro3356]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/rZ6oZGmsf82Nqrc

[@Jobe-13]

Makes sense since the ancient Greeks were pretty tanned.

[@wisedragon173]

Have you seen the reconstructed painted statues? Many were not tanned at all but pretty pale. So you think Germanics and Celts had the skin complexion of marble? I have seen paintings and mosaics that showed tanned and pale people. The use of marble or ivory or any material has nothing to do with skin color.

[@coryskizm]

@@wisedragon173 Keep lying to yourself.

[@wisedragon173]

@@coryskizm Says the wannabe Roman and Greek. The busts, statues, and paintings validate my claims.

[@giannis_toupolemou]

@@wisedragon173 Nothing validates your claims. Na Germanics and Celts were to pri.mitive to do something like that. Must be due to lack o Melamine ? 🤔😂

[@farisayeim554]

@@giannis_toupolemou big up our Greek brothers from north east Africa

[@andreaskonig3767]

Honestly? I have studied fine Arts and found all these Art History, Critical Theory and the likes not very convincing. Starts with the story about the industrial revolution. REALLY? Most of it does not fit together when looking at technology and final pieces of art, be it sculptural or 2D as in painting. Oil and Tempera for one is not only a mystery but seems to me a complete lie. If we go back in time and we find statues of ANCIENT, how can they have paints that applied to outside figurines/statues are still displaying color remnants, when others have long gone. etc etc. And then they tell us 'his-story'.....

[@delusionsofgrandeur1330]

I find the colors they had access to to be too garish and prefer the polished white versions

[@arno-luyendijk4798]

That is completely your opinion, but I hope you will at least accept that the traces preserved and made visible speak another reality.

[@rogerdodger8813]

The title has racial connotations! "How did the Greek statues lose their colour" maybe better heading!

[@ftrobot5536]

Color isn't race

[@MrAwrsomeness]

@@ftrobot5536 to an extent

[@wisedragon173]

The irony is, that the painted statues look like real white people with a skin tone which ranges from tanned to pale or pinkish. However, left-wing and Marxist scholars are brainwashing people by pretending that the white marble color is the skin color of the true white people. Utterly BS . But what is really scary is the fact, that now people believe this nonsense, go around parroting, that the painted statues don't show white people since they were painted, and that only the colourless marble is the skin color of white people. Therefore they say, the Roman and Greek statues were whitewashed and eurofied. So now woke leftists and Marxist academics are basically claiming, that anyone that that doesn't have the skin color of marble isn't white which means that in reality there are no white people including Northern Europeans. There is another clips that says the white lies and also pretends that painted statues who show people who look generic Europeans are not showing white people. We live in crazy times and many people blindly believe all kinds of BS and absurdities since they don't use their common sense and brain at all.

[@ashu4303]

@@wisedragon173 🤣

[@12gmkk29]

Her accent

[@supercigar123]

All these statues we're bleached out on purpose come on people use your brain

[@nassauguy48]

Very much so. The later European historians did not want to acknowledge the Black African influence over Greece, especially with regard to the genetic pool.

[@farisayeim554]

Ancient Greek were black as Egyptian and Mesopotamian

[@jimmierogers5899]

More misled people silly folks skin color is generationally changeable and means absolutely zero the truth is in the blood the rise of the negs is about to start and our tribes will be avenged

[@sarahjrgensen7753]

@@farisayeim554 sick of blacks and whites claiming others culture Mesopotamien greece and rome were not blacks ancient egypt were indigeneous north africans who were indigeneous to africa later non africans invades egypt but the begining egypt was indigeneous Black north african people

[@k.t.5405]

Yes, because of 18th century NEWST (Northern European White Supremacy Theory).