The Columbine High School Massacre - Lights Out Podcast #9

Columbine Memorial Fund: www.columbineme...
More Info: www.acolumbines...
Make sure to subscribe on iTunes! podcasts.apple...
Follow On Spotify! open.spotify.c...
New episodes released every Friday!
Follow the show on social media!
Twitter: / lightsoutcast
Instagram: / lightsoutcast
Host: Josh
Twitter: / milehigherjosh
Instagram: / milehigherjosh
Producer: Joel
Twitter: / milehigherjoel
Instagram: / milehigherjoel
KZbin: / @_joel_william_
Spotify: open.spotify.c... ✉ Send me mail ✉
Josh Thomas
8547 E Arapahoe Rd Ste J # 233
Greenwood Village, CO 80112

[@pri.sci.lla.]

I appreciate that you’re using the names of the people who were victimized. I hate when people report on this and only talk about the shooters by name.

[@NoOneYaKnow666]

I agree with this primarily because the victims should not be forgotten, but also feel the names of the shooters shouldnt be mentioned so these cowards WILL be forgotten.

[@HaplessOne]

@@NoOneYaKnow666 exactly, sensationalizing these guys is part of the reason it keeps happening. It gives mentally unstable, hateful people ideals to latch onto, and hero's to look up to. The Columbine shooting is really what started the snowball effect.

[@JAYJay-qd7ov]

Prayers and love to all the people affected by this nightmare

[@mirandaskye532]

You have been here to get the car for me the day you got it you will get your hair

[@tufankilinc636]

You are a very wise human.

[@CM-wf2uo]

This story is so sad. Not long after columbine was a school shooting in my home town. My dad was the first cop to arrive on scene. Back then, there wasn’t active shooter training. It wasn’t a common thing. My dad ran in alone, found an off duty officer who was at the high school registering his daughter in the front office. The details my dad tells me as he was running into the school haunt me to this day. He was so brave. He had no idea where the shooter was but he ran in to protect those kids. He arrived in two minutes, took the suspect into custody, and saved countless lives. It has always stayed with me. A tremendous amount of respect, and knowing I could’ve lost my father that day.

[@topanga26]

Celia Morey wow!!

[@cozycasasmr4510]

Thank u to ur dad 💕🙏🏼

[@katwebbxo]

Love to you, your dad and the victims. 💖

[@gullwingstorm857]

Your dad is a hero.

[@waltermelon7736]

I smell bullshit

[@mirandaanderson6973]

About Josh saying "who wears a trenchcoat?" I was 18 in 1999 and at that time, me and all the other metal/goth/alternative kids wore trenchcoats. It was very popular, The Matrix was a thing at the time, etc.

[@SalterTheSaltShaker]

Jason Dean?

[@sourgreendolly7685]

They continued to be popular into the early 2000s. I didn't get mine until 2002 when I was 13. One of the best sales I ever caught, I was so proud of myself 😂

[@babyscissors7558]

Currently bawling my eyes out over that teacher sacrificing his like for his students, what an amazing guy

[@harmonyfox]

I cried too. What a hero

[@mollyhallhappytoseeyou.]

Man me too

[@megantaylor1470]

@@SuperParamorefan567 2020 be like ACAB

[@melissablais6030]

I got chills listening to everything he did to help save those kids

[@JAYJay-qd7ov]

Me too I cant stop tearing up. Listing to them narrorate this disturbing event made me feel like I was there watching it all happen in front of my eyes.

[@LauLauWF]

I’ve noticed a few facts are wrong here so just thought I’d put bits I know here for anyone who’s interested: 1. Brooks asked Eric why he had missed an important test that morning and not ‘what’s going on with you’, it wasn’t that deep a conversation, just important to note. 2. Only Eric had a website and list of names called the “Sh*tlist”, Dylan didn’t really have anything to do with them. 3. It was Dylan who first came up with NBK as a name for the plan. Dylan wrote about going NBK with a girl he had a crush on in February 1998, he settled on doing it with Eric instead. Dylan first wrote about a killing spree in 1997. 4. The cafeteria bombs were actually planted at 10:58am, not at 11:14am. Footage was found years later showing the bombs being planted, although this isn’t in the official report. 5. Although Eric and Dylan did use fireworks and make bombs for fun together, they didn’t go shooting together prior to the plan. They only got guns 5 months before in November 1998, Eric also wrote both boys fired their first firearms ever on 3rd December 1998. They only went practice shooting around twice before the massacre. 6. They were not associated with The Trench Coat Mafia, this group graduated a year before in 1998. Dylan actually got his coat for Christmas ‘98, so they only wore them around 4 months before too. 7. Cassie Bernall was not the one questioned on her faith, it was actually Valeen Schurr. I believe it was Craig Scott who said it was Cassie, Valeen didn’t want to dispute this right away knowing Cassie had died. 8. Daniel Mauser was believed to have pushed a chair into Eric after Daniel was shot in the hand, possibly an unconscious action, which may have been the reason Eric then shot him in the face. Daniels father has a KZbin video talking about this. 9. Police found Eric to have 18 9mm rounds and 23 shotgun shells left on his body, Dylan had 5 9mm rounds and 14 shotgun shells left on him. So they were low on ammo but still plenty left to do more damage. 10. Dylan didn’t shoot himself with the shotgun, he actually used the tech 9 9mm and shot through his left temple. This was seen as unusual as it was the left side but Dylan was left handed and shot with his left hand so then it made sense. 11. Eric killed himself first with his shotgun, sat upright against a book shelf, as he then slouched down his gun most likely moved slightly under his leg with movement after death. Dylan lit a Molotov cocktail on the table then sat near Eric killing himself. 12. They documented hand signals to use during the massacre for communication, one of which was a signal for ‘suicide’, I believe they may have used this signal down in the cafeteria then proceeded upstairs before killing themselves. In one video in the cafeteria it does look like Eric is doing some kind of signal or waving with his hand. 13. Patrick Ireland wasn’t fully unconscious the entire time, he actually came too a couple times and at one point heard someone coughing, this was possibly the sounds of Dylan dying. 14. Eric did write racist things in his writings, however what’s quite fascinating is he also wrote a lot of contradictory statements of his own beliefs. On his website he says he hates racism yet uses racist statements himself. He also says he hates ‘young smokers’, yet smoked himself. He says he loves school.. it’s not clear cut what he actually believed. 15. It was actually Dylan who secretly warned Brooks of Eric’s site by passing Brooks a note with the website address on. That’s where Brooks would see threats on there about him. 16. The punishments for breaking into the van in January ‘98 I actually think was appropriate and not ‘just a slap on the wrist’. It was a 1 year diversion program, 45 hours community service, drug and alcohol evaluations, attending two classes, weekly meetings, some monetary fees and an apology letter to the victim. They earned early terminations just less than two months early of the end. 17. I think it’s a little unfair to put blame on the parents regarding Eric and Dylan not talking to them about issues, Cassie Bernall had some issues a year or so before her death where she wrote about killing her parents and murder in general; it was by chance her parents found out, yet they are not blamed for anything. Rachel Scott was suicidal and smoked pot and cigarettes, yet her mother is not blamed for anything. I recommend Sue Klebolds book, it is not glorifying Dylan, it’s factual and insightful. 18. You put more blame onto Dylan’s parents yet Eric’s dad actually found a pipe bomb in Eric’s room, therefor knew his son was making these, and his only punishment was to go blow it up with his dad and that was it. Eric did have routine room inspections off his dad also. 19. Brooks didn’t wear a trench coat and actually distances himself from Eric around 2 years prior to this. He was still on friendly terms with Dylan but even their friendship fell away towards the end and he really didn’t hang out with either for months prior.

[@roseannetrow1208]

was hoping someone would clear a couple things said in this up. there are a lot of misconceptions on this case so i dont particularly blame josh, it was really interesting podcast still.

[@midnightscreamer2481]

Thanks for clearing this up Lauren, I noticed a lot of this as well but I was to lazy to type. Upvoting this so more people can see.

[@theresaannsmith9554]

Yes...thanks for the info Lauren! I also agree that it is unfair to blame the parents. Their parents did not put the guns in their children's hands. I think since the killers committed suicide, and people just like to attack anyone in associated with them. Plus, even if parents do everything right, it does not mean their children will not become a felon.

[@marythecontrarian]

This is so much good information! Thanks for taking the time to type this out!

[@EN1GMA_AU]

100% agree with the above comments. I too agree that they are making a lot of assumptions in this video, particularly in relation to the shooter’s parents. She Klebold also has a great Ted Talk on this topic.

[@eddieg2828]

The peak-a-boo part in the library gave me chills.

[@katwebbxo]

Yes to Josh calling out these murderers on their victim BS. Read Eric's diary and tell me he wasn't evil despite people liking him. I feel so bad for their families. I watched Sue's Ted Talk a while back and I believe she wasn't a bad parent like people think. Thank you for mentioning her as well as not making them seem like they deserved to do this out of bullying, whether it occurred or not.

[@beesarelife2721]

I agree. I think we shouldn't parent shame. These were older teenagers and sorry, some people arnt helicopter parents!!

[@katwebbxo]

@@beesarelife2721 Absolutely. Some people are just made evil without it being the parents fault. Honestly I think Dylan should've gotten help sooner but regardless he did what he did and nobody could prevent that.

[@nicholasgeere5125]

Extremely hot take on the family though. There's a reason why the families of suicides are shocked, it's very easy to hide signs of distress from loved ones

[@Vercingetorix.Fantasia]

I think waybe(was that the name) Harris shaped eric. To what extent we dont know. We do that as soon as he heard their was a shooter at his sons school, he believed it to be eric...

[@MC32595]

@@Vercingetorix.Fantasia apparently eric’s dad found some pipe bombs eric had made for the shooting. instead of being worried, the dad took him out to go detonate them…it could’ve just been an innocent “boys will be boys” mentality that boomers tend to have, but it was clear eric’s parents never really cared. on top of his dad also suspecting eric was the shooter before the school had even announced his identity.

[@OhLookYouFoundCristalina]

Regarding the merch: mugs for sure . Maybe one where the skeleton disappears as your coffee or tea cools down, something like that

[@king_crispyy]

YESSS

[@nosteviewonder8959]

That's actually a really good idea

[@pninasimmer5723]

That would be so cool

[@jessicadunbar2082]

Yes pleaseee

[@jamey1858]

That's a sick idea.

[@sadiesue8069]

Marilyn Manson was blamed for the shootings at the time. He was interviewed (by Ricki Lake maybe?) Who asked him "What would you tell the Columbia shooters". Hos response was "I wouldn't tell them anything I would have listened "

[@starshuskies4040]

The interview was with Michael Moore. It's in Bowling for Columbine. They were supposed to play in Denver that weekend but postponed the show out of respect for the victims and their families. Guess who had a big gun show that weekend? The NRA!

[@donnap5699]

I respected him so much more after that

[@ghiajohnson1547]

Yes! That was the best response EVER! Just listen! Along those lines, society needs to stop blaming the entertainment industry. The problem is the family!

[@sadiesue8069]

@@ghiajohnson1547 the family didn't make then do anything. Even if they were under age, they were responsible for their own actions

[@katwebbxo]

@@starshuskies4040 I've loved him all my life for not only his music but most importantly because of his response to this situation. He truly proved how ridiculous it is to blame artists for these acts. I will always respect him for how he handled it.

[@ellolovelyxo]

legit started crying when you talked about the speech his daughter made, and that she was grateful her father, Dave, saved so many students. it's so heartbreaking, and heroic.

[@acmulhern]

I have to disagree with giving Dylan's parents responsibility for what their son did. Since having children of my own I have realised how little control we have over their actions. You try to teach them right from wrong and teach them values, but you can't control them when they're away from you. You have kids who come from very decent households who start hanging with the wrong crowd and as a parent that's a very helpless situation to be in.

[@KyokoLovesRain]

I totally agree with you. I wasn't even a bad kid and still there were things that I did and my parents knew nothing about it and it is not their fault. They're decent people with decent jobs. All of us, we were kids ourselves and I think every person has done things that their parents knew nothing about either. I don't know why's that but I think that a lot of teenagers have completely different personalities home and outside of their home environment. What I would've looked into is their friends. I understand that probably all of them were under the age of 18 but they should've been questioned more. They were all shooting guns, making those video clips with various weird scenarios together, they must've known more. Also, who knows what's on the basement tapes, those were not released. Why not? Seems like there is something to hide then. Anyway, R.I.P all of the people killed that day. It's truly horrible.

[@d3l3tes00n]

So many parents ignore & are in denial about mental health issues.

[@citizn-xh7rv]

Dylan's mom even made the point that she worked to be the type of parent that her kids could go to about everything. And Dylan seemed to be in a great place he had just gone to prom and was getting ready to go to college he didn't show her any signs. It seemed like Eric exhibited many more red flags than Dylan and i'm surprised his parents didn't intervene more, but I still don't blame his parents.

[@joannajamerson35]

His mom did a Ted talk. Its good.

[@ninachkah13]

Agreed

[@broadwaylover5384]

I think the story of a girl proclaiming to be a Christian is inaccurate. It was actually someone else in the library who survived the attack that said it. But making it so that someone who died said it was more palatable for the public. Ask A Mortician has a good video about the misconceptions of Columbine.

[@zoemack1903]

I love ask a morticiannn. 10/10 a babe

[@ghiajohnson1547]

I love Ask a Mortician!!!

[@TheHeavensFellen]

there are 3 different versions with three separate kids. It likely never happened.

[@TheHeavensFellen]

@@LauLauWF well he now says Schurr. his story has a few holes in it.

[@piratesswoop725]

@@TheHeavensFellen It was Val Schnurr. There are several reports from witnesses in the 11k who mention her, either directly or in passing. The timeline makes it very clear that it occurred in the aftermath of Lauren Townsend’s death, and Lauren and the group of girls hiding with her, including Val, was on the complete opposite side of the library than Cassie.

[@user-px6hz6ex4c]

I've been having trouble sleeping and I've been listening to rain & thunder videos but last night that wasn't cutting it. So I turned to Ol' Faithful... I've fallen asleep to Mile Higher and now Lights Out more times than I can count. I always catch up the next day at work. Love you and Kendall!! So proud of how far you've both come!

[@amandafinnerty3707]

I do the same thing!! I listen to each episode at least twice! Their voices are so soothing

[@pinkfuzzycow]

Omfg same here. His voice is so freaking soothing to me.

[@jessicamedlin3774]

Joshs voice is more soothing than even thunder and rain sounds lol

[@ericstowell3915]

This podcast is So legit. U should do the Jonestown massacre/cult or "Jungle Jim"

[@deilylyrret]

They did that on the mile higher podcast, but they never played the shrilling audio of the massacre. Since this is the darker podcast, I'm curious if they would play it.

[@Nickriz_beats]

Krystal NeVair there’s one on Kendall and josh’s podcast mile Higher podcast! One of the most chilling events in history in my opinion

[@rachael3829]

Yesss

[@LadyVesuvius]

YES!!!

[@inglewood826]

Agreed!

[@JJones-cl4dm]

as a father of two young boys, the thought of going to an elementary school to search for them wondering if they had been brutally murdered sounds like my absolute worst nightmare

[@stepitup25]

Columbine is a tragedy that really affected me, and still does to this day. It happened when I was 15, the same age as many of those that were killed. It unfortunately seemed to start a domino effect of school shootings.

[@MrsBoogie002]

Same here. I was 14 at the time.....it was such a crazy event and was definitely a catalyst for more school shootings to come.

[@andreaarchaeology]

Same. I actually can't listen to this episode. I can't stomach to hear about it and think about it again.

[@idk-ee7jn]

going to school has never been the same since

[@unfinishedsentenc5308]

Sorry you had to go through that

[@maisymcadam3896]

I completely understand why people avoid covering his case but I feel that it is important to cover such cases to show solidarity for the victims and try to prevent such events from happening again

[@dionysiakst1147]

An unarmed teacher, with zero training in this kind of situations stepped up and gave his own life to save as many students as he could, while the authorities took their time with everything. There might be some details that I do not know about, but there's literally no excuse in my opinion.

[@pierzing.glint1sh76]

Just ban the guns or make them really hard for people to get Yes criminals will still get it but none of these mass shootings r done by comvicted criminals just ordinary people

[@joshmiller2725]

@@pierzing.glint1sh76 oppressive governments have killed 100 million people in the past century. Disarming the populace to stop some shootings would be the most short sighted thing you could ever do. Anyone who advocates for disarming the populace should be forced to watch every single minute of the Tiananmen Square Massacre footage. The US government killed 1 million people in Iraq. If you want that government to disarm you and your fellow countrymen, you have a below average intelligence.

[@kristiramos3367]

@Dionysia Kst you're right! There was no excuse...Dave Sanders lay on the floor, in the science room for 3 1/2 hours, dying. His location was well known because of 911 calls, and the sign in the window...yet he was never rescued. When PD finally entered the room, the kids that were helping Dave tried to get him loaded onto a folded table to transport him out, but PD told them to leave the building...Sanders died as a result! That man should not have died!!

[@shaunrobitaille3780]

Sadly, I think it’ll never happen due to “murrica, my constitutional rights” there would be an uproar. I cannot remember the last time my country had a school shooting and were right across from the us, we just have gun control.

[@katwebbxo]

I visited Columbine when I was a kid and most recently in 2016. I was in Denver to see my family but I also wanted to remember seeing the school in person. I first saw it in 2000, only a year after the shooting, because we were in town for a family member's wedding and some wanted to stop by the school during that trip. It's honestly a surreal, unexplainable feeling seeing the same windows and those stairs in the cafeteria from the footage. Even though they rearranged the places where most of the shooting happened, you can still make it out based on videos and pictures. We went to the memorial first and read every victim's description and quotes on the wall from their families and other survivors. We weren't visiting out of some morbid fascination but to remember and honor the victims. Dave Sanders is truly a hero and I wish his family all the peace in the world.

[@arkham9843]

RIP to the victims of this crime...

[@kristin65roses]

A lights out hoodie with the skeleton and the light string would be pretty awesome 😍 or an all black hoodie with glow in the dark letters that says lights out podcast

[@ashleighstark4804]

I thought the light string were anal beads at first glance hahaha

[@jisellealvarez9974]

Omg the glow in the dark is a great idea!!

[@Nickriz_beats]

Ashleigh Stark lmaoooo u win 😂😂😂

[@julicortes5789]

Great ideas and for real!!!!

[@kristin65roses]

Oh my gosh I didn't see all the likes. Thank you guys!

[@pri.sci.lla.]

I was just watching documentaries about this tragedy. I’m gonna listen while cleaning my room. Productive and educated.

[@jessicalacrim0sa]

Of all the columbine content I've consumed you are the first I remember talking about the police response. Thank you for that angle and to shed light on the poor response time

[@Lark496]

There's a lot of info out there regarding the response of the police. Not saying I agree, but at the time the protocol was to set up a perimeter and wait for SWAT. Many, but not all, police departments changed how they respond to active shooter incidents due to what happened at Columbine.

[@voltage6405]

I just watched an I Survived episode about this and this guy was in the library and heard popping sounds and didn’t think much of it. Turns out that them killing his sister Rachel 😢

[@stepitup25]

I’ve watched that episode too. Hearing Craig’s story from his point of view was chilling and heartbreaking.

[@yvonne3855]

What was the episode called?

[@sarak4010]

I survived is an excellent show.

[@Cinnamoho]

Brooks Brown’s book is absolutely incredible. Such a personal look at the situation prior, the actual event, and aftermath.

[@adrianabelle9168]

Rachel Scott’s mom came to my school and spoke my senior year of high school. Her words that day changed my life forever and I am a much kinder human because of that presentation. She’s doing amazing things in honor of her daughter. Here from Mile Higher! I needed another podcast to listen to while I waited on the next episode there. Love you guys 😊

[@kaycinelson3952]

The details of the columbine massacre always makes so upset but I’m glad we continue to keep the victims memory alive. Dave Sanders’ story really gets me.

[@Sj430]

Dave sanders is a hero. He saved alot of kids lives that day. One of the victims who name is Kyle can't spell his last name, he was mentally disabled he didn't know how to hide and he got shot. His story gets me. I think I can relate to Kyle because I am mentally disabled.

[@ShopwithSarah]

I was 17 when this happened and a senior in high school. When this happened, everyone and I mean EVERYONE was terrified to be in school. It’s the strangest feeling.

[@katwebbxo]

This case truly formed how I perceived school from then on. I was only 6 and in first grade. It's the reason we had shooter drills. I still remember the first moment I felt unsafe at school and it never left me after that.

[@jewelsguzman9908]

I lived in Colorado springs during this time. Sophomore in high school. Scariest year ever. We were locked down multiple times after threats of school shootings shortly after Columbine shooting. Definitely the day things changed for us in school. Started a horrible "trend". Needless to say, my kids are now home schooled lol

[@topanga26]

I literally graduated high school one year before this shooting. Before then, it was unheard of. Ever since, we never solved the problem, it’s only gotten worst. What a mess. A hideous, horrifying mess.

[@TheHeavensFellen]

They've had school campus shootings at least since 1966, and even a few before then that weren't as large of a list of victims.

[@Vercingetorix.Fantasia]

The Cassie story never happened. Makes me wonder if her parents truly knew this. It was a different girl entirely . Kinda odd how her parents went on that martyr tour on retrospect

[@piratesswoop725]

Her parents believed Craig Scott’s martyr story (which the Scott family later tried to pass off as Rachel’s story) and by the time the truth came out that it was Val Schnurr, who survived, that said it, they had already been in too deep with the book and the church and speaking tours.

[@kolbewatkins9013]

I thought that it was Rachel Scott who said yes to being a Christian

[@JJones-cl4dm]

ive heard that as well. but with all the chaos who really knows other than the people that were actually there

[@wholockedholmes5600]

They were told at a later point that it wasn't her, but by that point, the church had just gone to the races with the story.

[@Krystal_Clearr]

Yup! Other victims were actually upset for that family lying and benefitting off of this tragedy.

[@OhLookYouFoundCristalina]

Imagine how many would’ve survived had the cops arrived and also intervened properly as soon as the first 911 call .... so unfortunate , man.

[@Paisleys_mommy]

You have to understand, that school shootings were absolutely unheard of at the time. (I'm not sure how old you were at the time, but I was in my 20s and understood the situation at the time). They're was no protocol for this Nobody knew what was going on, 911 was flooded with calls, including students and teachers, parents, and the media. (Yes reporters were calling 911 for a "scoop") Police have to secure a scene before EMS can enter. I'm relieved that school students and administrators are learning protocols on shootings. It's just a shame that it's necessary.

[@Sj430]

@@Paisleys_mommy I was only 12 years old when columbine happened. And your right there was no protocol on what to do at the time.only thing that came from Columbine is now there is a protocol on what to do and what not to do during a active shooter situation.

[@angelbaker7672]

I 100% agree with you when say that people shouldn't make excuses for these killers.

[@momoneyy9079]

I was having a really bad day and you uploaded. I really appreciate how you and your wife take the time to make content that’s extremely educational and entertaining. You just made my day 💯 times better. Thank you so much for everything you guys do! 😇❤️

[@reginamachamer821]

I keep thinking about the girl who was bleeding out in the library, who layed there and did everything she could to stay awake, for *3 HOURS* while waiting to be "rescued". Unbelievable.

[@Sj430]

It's the same with Dave sanders.

[@kristin65roses]

I'm loving this podcast so much! I love that you talk about subjects that not a ton of people want to really talk about. Keep up the great work guys 🖤🖤

[@cozycasasmr4510]

Agreed!

[@Msbrowneyes114]

I was a senior in high school when this happened. It changed me. Suddenly the safest place (other than home) is not safe anymore. Thank you Lights Out for covering this and focusing on the victims. Those are the ones we should remember ♥️

[@secretmanifestor9027]

you have to do sandy hook & parkland! they cop there also didn’t go in

[@meganhartman128]

WHAT?!? I didn’t know that!! I just left a comment about how shocked I was that law enforcement didn’t go in for this one, I can’t believe that happened for those shootings as well. maybe I just missed it, but did the media report on that, I wonder??

[@microdepression6951]

It trips me out how little info is out there on Sandy Hook! They should def cover it

[@kiki__5561]

definitely do Sandy Hook and Parkland 😭 it’s crazy some people think sandy hook never actually happened

[@R011T1DEROLL]

@@microdepression6951 🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔

[@microdepression6951]

@@R011T1DEROLL I do think it happened, haha im not saying it didn't. what im saying is there is little info out there and it would be nice for someone to cover it.

[@stephaniechacon2646]

This just breaks my heart. I can not imagine what these poor children went through. What the after math of pain their families have endured. I could not imagine losing my child to something like this. You related this story so respectfully. My heart just breaks!😞

[@jenheath1808]

❤❤❤

[@Hollychristineonyt]

Your comment about campfires gave me an idea for your merch- a black hoodie with a campfire and "lights out" under it, bc it really does feel like you're telling scary stories around a campfire

[@lovelikewolves]

i’m a native, currently in cap hill and whenever you or kendall talk about cases from colorado, my heart just goes out to you both even more. there are so many tragedies you talk about and your efforts to turn the victims into survivors through keeping their stories alive is always so humbling. but when it’s in our own backyard, it’s such a different heartache and i always appreciate when you cover cases here.

[@Hollychristineonyt]

So heartbreaking. I read the book Dylan's mom wrote, and I was heartbroken by how these murderers families were treated after this. Many blamed the parents for their sons actions and they were just as heartbroken as the rest of the world

[@freakyfriesday]

Yeah, I agree. It’s really eye opening considering things from the perspective of people who are at best not really considered and at worst outright hated because they are family members of the perpetrators. I always find myself feeling for Eric and Dylan’s older brothers especially, who were both like 20 at the time. Being around that age I can’t imagine not just losing my only sibling, but forever having to live with the knowledge that they did something so horrific. On top of all that, there’s probably so much unwanted attention and public scrutiny that they still have to deal with :(

[@staceyryan834]

Question: If, by the time they reached the Science Hallway, they were running out of ammo and trying to conserve it, why would they have shot into empty classrooms? That just doesn't click for me. You said at the start that Eric was a bright kid, maybe because it was the Science Hallway, they decided to leave those students alone out of a possible small amount of respect? Just a theory though.

[@marythecontrarian]

A lot of times, people that go on a killing rampage get burned out. Not necessarily because they’re started to feel bad, but just because they’re tired of doing what they’re doing. I know they planned to kill almost everyone in the school and then move on to the police, but from what I’ve researched, when actually taking action, it’s very different and people, even evil people, get tired of it. I absolutely agree that I don’t think they were trying to conserve ammo and probably came there prepared to kill a lot of people. They also may have been shooting bullets for the fear factor of anyone that could hear them. It seems from their diary entries that they also wanted to inflict terrible trauma on survivors and didn’t necessarily want to/think it was realistic to kill everybody at the school. Additionally, neither of the boy’s mental health was anywhere near being oaky (which is of course not an excuse for their horrific behavior) and it may have deteriorated much further in the hour to a point where they may have been hallucinating or a plethora of things. Of course we’ll never know since no one can diagnose someone or see the precise state of a person’s mental health if the person is dead.

[@DamnItDylan]

They actually had ammo left when they killed them selves. I believe someone overheard them say it wasn't fun anymore. They were aimless after their horrific plot went awry.

[@Vercingetorix.Fantasia]

Their plan went off the rails from the start , so they started improvising. They expected to be challenged by police after a certain point and when they werent it kind of through them off. That explains the somewhat reckless shooting at times. They both died with more than enough ammo left.

[@staceyryan834]

@@Vercingetorix.Fantasia This is a very good point, thank you.

[@samanthahatley1168]

Yay!! I look forward to Friday's for Lights out podcast! Love you guys❤

[@rachelannmclean7315]

They was only one school shooting in the U.K. in 1996 here in Dunblane, Scotland. The Dunblane massacre happened in Dunblane primary school were a guy called Thomas Hamilton shot and killed 16 primary 1’s (5 year olds) and their teacher, injuring 15 others and then killed himself. After that the U.K. changed its gun laws and it never happened again. The teacher died trying to save the kids using herself as a human shield, however she wasn’t successful. If it wasn’t for her it would have been a lot worse, as she triggered the alarms, as he planned to kill the whole school.

[@imjustanasshlesometimes3488]

If only America would learn....

[@YAH913]

Right, how many school shootings need to happen before things change

[@imjustanasshlesometimes3488]

@@YAH913 exactly... Not just school shootings but massacres... Like in Orlando 4 yrs ago.

[@adelemberry]

I think as well another thing to note is that the police in the UK mainly have tasers & don’t have guns unless they’re like the bomb squad ....so they’d never have the worry of accidentally shooting the wrong person which I think josh mentions as a reason for why the police were scared to go in to the school.

[@barrybell2561]

I remember it well, I was 8 at the time. The news reports were some of the saddest things I've ever seen. I live in Fife and have visited Dunblane a few times, beautiful wee place. May all those children and their teacher rest in peace.

[@emilyshiner471]

I CRIED listening to that 911 call, absolutely sent shivers through my body. Thank you so much for naming out all victims. 💜

[@TV-yb2bn]

Josh why don’t you sell your very own incense with Josh-like names for different scents! Would be curious what you would come up with

[@Alirobin77]

Yes this is still such a huge thing here in CO! Every year of middle & high school we had a ‘Rachel’s Challenge Day’ and it was a day dedicated to this whole devastation

[@annabethdiana5857]

They do it in Oklahoma too. It was hugely inspiring to a lot of students in my school because it opened our eyes to how lucky we were to have the safety measures we did. RIP to all the Columbine victims 🙏

[@kellymcginnis8744]

Ugh that police call makes me cry. I couldn’t even imagine the panic you’d be experiencing something like that in a place you think you’re safe

[@fifijabs4463]

This carnage went on for an hour and the police did nothing!! My heart breaks for the victims and their families. So much unnecessary pain and suffering. The school should be renamed after Dave Saunders he was a true hero. Thank you for honouring the victims. May they all rest in peace

[@karinanuno15kn]

The fact that the columbine school shooting could’ve been prevented 😔

[@ilarious5729]

Most mass shootings could

[@katwebbxo]

Far too many times.

[@whyismylifeweird4251]

Karina N well the shooters purchased their guns illegally,since their underage...so I find that kinda impossible. they bought the guns two years before the shooting when,they were both 16.

[@ilarious5729]

@@whyismylifeweird4251 you find it impossible that in those 2 years those guns could've been taken away by LEO wtf? What does the guns being bought illegally have to do with the fact that the shootings could have been prevented?

[@whyismylifeweird4251]

Anssi_Ilari LEO?what's that?

[@rjohnson610]

Rachel Scott's father gave a speech at my high school. It was the most moving speech I have ever heard. It has stuck with me for many years

[@adrianahassel9182]

Stories like this get to me. I was a freshman at catoctin high school when one of our seniors was arrested for planning a school shooting. Her father found her journal with the plans in it and called the police. I will forever be greatful for him. Just knowing it could have happened messed with a lot of us students. I couldn’t imagine actually going through it. my heart goes out to everyone involved and to the families of those lost.

[@chelsey518]

As a middle schooler I didn't know this ever happened but our school banned trench coats and I just assumed it was because they didn't want kids pretending they were in the matrix 😕🤷🏼‍♀️

[@leedabrowski835]

lol! No disrespect, but your comment made me literally LOL

[@amirashanell9503]

@@leedabrowski835 😂 lol the innocence

[@shellyleduc1]

Thanks again for covering stories that may have been covered but I never saw coverage back when it happen. So thanks for doing this. Hey Josh you should start your own audio books. Your voice has a calming to it. Tc stay safe and I can’t wait till next week. Say hey to Kendal too

[@JB-js1cy]

You might have heard Rachel Scott’s parents speak at your church! Her family used to go around to schools/churches telling her story. Her brother Craig spoke at my high school.

[@LightsOutPodcast]

Interesting I bet you're right

[@11jrg11]

* Rest In Peace* Dave Sanders you are a True Hero!

[@RobertoHernandez-cx4yt]

Absolutely a hero

[@aprilbarnett9379]

When officers just stand there,staying out of harm"s way,that's not even close to doing everything they can,which reminds me of a current case!

[@TrippyZeke]

I went to Columbine High School my freshman year and the stories my teacher told me (she was there the day it happened) was absolutely terrifying. What a lot of people don’t know is there was a lot of death after the fact like suicides and even more murders also the 2 killers were actually the bullies themselves not the other way around

[@nwoslothbite3077]

It takes a deep consuming hatred and ego with a belief that humans are lesser beings than yourself to commit such horrific crimes. They say 1 in 100 humans are psychopaths or sociopaths who lack empathy and remorse - I'd say this has to apply here.

[@carissa.91]

I’m from Colorado & I grew up knowing about this massacre... I went to Platte Canyon high school where the Emily Keys shooting was! I was in second grade and will never forget it. Later on in high school there was a lockdown that was real from a student carrying a color guard rifle for after school. That was probably the scariest moment of my life. The feeling of being in a room full of kids, watching the swat teams run down the halls from the windows. Uhg. Gives me chills. You explained this so perfectly and I’m so happy you used the victims names. They should be remembered

[@colleenc.9900]

I love watching and listening to your wife’s channel. Then, the podcast came out... and now this. You both have such caring, calming and very relaxed voices. You both do so well on this platform and help so many. Thank you.

[@Ohheyykatiehart]

I heard the martyr for Christianity story was made up. That they never actually asked the girl if she believed in god. I’m not sure though!

[@big3ye378]

Interesting. I remember there was a Christian film that was made about Columbine that I saw on YT and it was full of propaganda... I am not offended by Christianity but using a tragedy like that to promote religion did offend me

[@Lms83]

It's not fake, dont believe fake news!!

[@kjlandon9140]

Lms No Name it is fake

[@Lms83]

@@kjlandon9140 then your an idiot!

[@-Zer0Dark-]

@@Lms83 -- You're* If you're going to be condescending, try not being ironic about it.

[@vzxlid]

Kinda salty you guys didn’t mention the fact that ppl tried to blame MARYILN MANSON?? Like that almost ruined his career bc everyone tried saying since they were “goth” and they heard that one of them was a manson fan and so everyone just hopped on his ass saying his music made them/inspired them to do this

[@katwebbxo]

True. His response is a main reason I've always respected him. People tried to place blame on anybody and anything they could. Some people even said they didn't even like him that much but it got blown out of proportion. Either way it's ridiculous to think music could've convinced them to do this.

[@R011T1DEROLL]

Fuck that satanist

[@roxannemoser]

The shooters NEVER listened to Marilyn Manson. Manson is not a satanist. To be a satanist, you have to believe in Christ. Manson believes neither exists. He's a shock rocker, who is now in trouble for his BDSM activities.

[@kariimonty5764]

@@R011T1DEROLL you don’t know anything about him keep your opinions to yourself

[@mylittlenightmares9424]

Much respect for MM 🥰

[@lucysegura1992]

It was said on here that law enforcement wasn’t at their best, but to this day it still isn’t. It’s so incredibly sad that history repeated itself again with Uvalde. Thank you Josh for covering this sad tragic event. Prayers to all those affected.

[@jLo4sho]

Tell the government to stop cutting mental health funding. It’s not about gun control. It’s about kids being raised in fucked up, unimaginably unhealthy situations and having no support or help. I worked for child protective services for 6 years and have been in the community mental health field for almost 5. People have no idea what these kids go through. I’m not in any way condoning what they did. I’m just trying to get ppl to see a different picture.

[@reginamachamer821]

"I mean yeah they probably were outsiders.. who tf wears trenchcoats around?" 😂 Omg I know it's so not the time but I just laughed for like 5 whole minutes over that.. and after this story I really needed it..

[@meganmaxxcastle7349]

RIP Dave, you were loved and appreciated by your community and all the lives you'd touched.

[@maeparker04]

The story of Cassie and being a martyrdom, is very unlikely. Look up the investigators and survivor stories.

[@Shippofan2]

Rachel Scott’s family has been going around doing anti-bullying Assemblies at different schools around the country after loosing their daughter. They keep saying that bullying is what made those two guys do it. When they came to my school when I was younger that didn’t sit right with me

[@Shippofan2]

jib jabs mcadoo they isolated them selves, if you listened to what most of the people have said about them they never were rejected ignored a little maybe, they seemed to have good families they could have talked to as well if they felt they couldn’t reach out to any of the teachers or students

[@piratesswoop725]

@jib jabs mcadoo If that was the case, they wouldn’t have shot Rachel Scott. Or Steve Curnow. Or Daniel Mauser. Or especially Kelly Fleming and Kyle Velasquez who were special needs students who had never been unkind to them. They tormented and bullied Daniel, and Isaiah Shoels before killing them.

[@clockworkcookie]

I don't think the killers should be treated as victims but trying to wrap the whole thing in "they were crazy assholes" completely bypasses the need to understand where this "evil" comes from. There are a lot of social factors to consider. It's like calling Hitler a monster and ignoring the fact that he had a whole machine of people and soldiers, "normal" people, working behind his maniacal plans.

[@danielberdichevsky9998]

yeah i remember watching about columbine when it happened, I was 11 years old, and a fan of marilyn manson, and I remember him being blamed for it very UNJUSTLY

[@katwebbxo]

Definitely. I was only 6 almost 7 when it happened but my family and I visited there in 2000 and 2016. It's always been a case that impacted me in many ways. I'm still a fan of Marilyn Manson and I remember him getting unnecessary hate from this. One reason why I've respected him ever since is because of his response. 💕

[@ashleighstark4804]

Just broke up with my partner of 4 years we would always watch your vids together. First time watching alone

[@maryserge8516]

you got this girl 💕

[@ashleighstark4804]

@@maryserge8516 thank you 💗

[@amandakrasinski]

Stay strong girly! Sending love and light to you😇

[@WhoamI-su7pg]

❤️❤️ you got this. Keep loving yourself first.

[@ashleythurston7262]

The Cassie story isn’t real, they DID ask one student if she believed in god but it wasn’t Cassie. I wanna say her name is Valerie and she survived.

[@ashleythurston7262]

Yeah, Val Schnurr. I should pay attention to the whole video before I comment with vague memories lol

[@warac67]

It was Rachel Scott, they had an assembly at my school for a couple years in a row about it

[@ashleythurston7262]

evolvinggamer no it wasn’t. I am the reason the same assembly came to my school and that’s not a claim they’ve ever made. Rachel was shot and killed out on the quad with friends having lunch, from a distance. No chance to ask if she believed in God.

[@piratesswoop725]

@@warac67 Neither Rachel, nor Cassie were asked about their faith. This is sadly propaganda that was spread by the Scott family to turn Rachel into a martyr for her faith. She and Richard were shot from a distance, then at close range. Richard has no recollection of either shooter asking Rachel anything.

[@JisooTurtleRabbitt]

In2010 back when I was in high school we had to do an assignment in the columbine shootings, for a bunch of Aussie kids learning about that was insane to us, it's so scary that it still happens today

[@mimiwhite8639]

The story of Cassie as a 'Cristian martyr' is incorrect. The exchange is something that happened however. Soon after the shooting one student had attributed it to Cassie, it came out several months later(9 I believe) that they had done so by mistake. At that point Cassies parents had already published "she said yes"(4 months after the events) and the story had already taken off to the level where many still belive it to this day. The girl who actually had that exchange[by several witnesses accounts and her own admission] is a survivor named Valeen.

[@CrazyDiamond1124]

We lived by Columbine school and my friends all went there (not during this time) but it still hits hard. Rachel's family came to our school and told us about their pain and shared her notebook with us that had a bullet whole in it. It was very Eerie. The whole auditorium was quiet, and left in tears.

[@ParadisePoisson]

Hey babe ❤ Its Terra Poisson xoxo Thanks for keeping this event in the Memory of all. As a senior that year and being present during the event, its comforting when this is discussed and remembered. Just keep in mind that the media often injects a lot of untruths and speculations, but I'm glad you actually talked to real people, really there. We're all part of a group that no one wants to be a part of and even after 20 yrs, it hurts and its traumatic when we even hear it mentioned. I just wanted to thank you for handling this with lots of love & care. Too often, that's not the case. Sean & I love you. Please give your beautiful wife our love and hope we can see you guys again next time we're home to visit ❤❤❤❤ WE ARE COLUMBINE

[@annetteg.r.i.p1491]

Brilliant podcast, I remember the Columbine School shooting. I was working on the cruise ships at the time, I was in my cabin watching it wondering why the police didn’t DO something, they were told numerous times there was just 2 shooters, both students of the school, yet they stood around scratching their arses. They had bullet proof vests on, it was kids doing the shooting not well trained sharp shooters or snipers. The polices inaction that day cost a lot of lives and to this day I can’t understand why they did nothing until it was too late smh

[@jenniferxnicole]

Perfect timing for a smoking in bed and watching podcast sesh

[@bigmona2741]

Same!

[@katwebbxo]

Me too 💖

[@waltersobchak7275]

Don't set yourself on fire reefer addict

[@kelsey2333]

@@waltersobchak7275 lol your obviously to dumb to know that weed isnt physically addictive. You could still get mentally addicted but that's different from physical addiction.

[@waltersobchak7275]

@@kelsey2333 what ever reefer addict

[@onyxm00n]

You turned up the volume, thank you sooo much. Your voices are so deep it's hard to understand you guys sometimes. A+ content as usual. I was a Sophomore in high school when Columbine happened. I remember the following year, people were freaking out because the "goth kids" weren't at school. It wasn't til I graduated that I realized WHY they weren't there. 4️⃣2️⃣0️⃣🔥🌬️🌫️

[@SarahBurnette1007]

You should totally make an eye mask for sleeping with your logo or something! Haha.

[@cozycasasmr4510]

Wow I'm loving this podcast. You talk about the victims with such respect. Love from south africa!

[@leannewood300]

The Columbine massacre has always had an affect on me, I was obsessed with the survivors and watched all of their documentaries and books etc absolutely heartbreaking. I’m in the UK so this isn’t something we’re used to happening here but every time I drop my son off at school I’m thinking of Columbine, my son is 7. Really great podcast guys, you did the victims and survivors justice 🖤

[@lindseywashere]

It's devastating hearing, and I couldn't imagine being a survivor. The PTSD, the guilt, the confusion, the absolute horror. The victims and heros will never be forgotten.

[@cosmicmermaid6553]

As a 30 year old. I remember exactly when this happened. I remember being pulled into the gym and having to watch the news of this event. We had to watch testimony of the victims. We had to watch multiple videos on bullying. We wanted to be prepared. But of course. The bullying in our school didn't stop. So someone came to school with a knife. I live out in the boonies. It was not expected.

[@zoemack1903]

we were all required to read Brookes book (who Eric told to go home) in school. I'd highly recommended it. 100% worth the read

[@fifijabs4463]

What is the name of the book please?

[@zoemack1903]

Fifi Jabs No Easy Answers: The Truth Behind Death at Columbine

[@katwebbxo]

Honestly good for your school for making students read it. It's so important to learn how these things happen and how it affects people.

[@basyemccrary]

I know this is kinda far fetched but a really cool idea for spooky season is doing a podcast or a video outside around a campfire telling scary stories.. ugh that would look so cool. Idk why but reminds me of the show are you afraid of the dark from the 90s...

[@aleksandralempart8305]

Omg I loved this show!

[@basyemccrary]

@@aleksandralempart8305 I think it would be a fun video,I think it'd get a lot of likes and views

[@juliacotton5081]

I was 29 when this happened. What it boils down to was and is children killing children. I'm so sorry for all the families. There is a reason why it happened but I honestly don't think we will ever truly know why.

[@lizmastro4458]

There's an AMAZING memoir that Dylan's (the blonde kid) mom wrote. The way she explained it is that after psychological autopsies and a look into all the evidence that basically them being friends was the perfect storm. Dylan was depressed and wanted to die and Eric was crazy and wanted to kill. So Dylan did it because he knew he wanted to commit suicide and this was a way to get there and Eric wanted to kill and suicide was an inevitable outcome.

[@mamabugnone]

I am a huge fan of this channel but i am very upset by some opinions expressed. I was in high school not far from this when it occurred. I became a paramedic because of it. I am now married to a law enforcement officer. Its very easy to critique when this is the first time anything like this had ever happened. There was NO training in place. There is now. This was such a tragedy. Im so sorry for everyone involved.

[@damiendarko9411]

I debated making this post, but there was a comment made in this video about shotguns that I wanted to address... "Shotguns are used for hunting birds." "They fire tiny BBs." Yes, this is true, but it's very unlikely the two killers were using the same kind of ammunition one would use in a bird hunt. while hunting birds, shooters will employ something called, well... "bird shot". Bird shot is comprised of a large number of small BBs packed into the shell. These BBs don't carry much weight, spread out pretty quickly, and don't penetrate very deeply into tissue or bone (birds are very fragile animals with slender builds and hallow bones to allow flight). It is much more likely the killers would have used Buckshot or even solid slugs, as these are used for hunting larger animals, self defense, and even police and military applications. During World War One, Germany even tried to dissuade the United States from using 00 Buck in their shotguns, saying it was TOO EFFECTIVE at close range and was "inhumane". Germany refused to stop using flamethrowers to flush allied troops out from their trenches, so the US continued using their shotguns offensively, but now I'm way off subject... The point being, I very much doubt the Columbine killers had those things loaded for bird that day. They would have been firing some seriously deadly 00 Buck at close rage, and according to FBI shooting data that is absolutely devastating... Man this is depressing...

[@Whittakergramly]

Please make a Lights Out Incense! That would be amazing! We love you guys.

[@attackthecanvas]

Kids at my school were mean, extremely mean, even violent towards me. Not once did I ever even consider taking their lives… I don’t understand.

[@andrewberrocal2281]

If you visit the memorial sometimes you might catch the sight of a gray haired woman sitting quietly in the benches. Susan Klebold.

[@ginabarrows3958]

❤❤

[@chefbetsy7680]

Best coverage on this tragedy I've seen. I too am appreciative for you using the names of the victims. They had no choice to leave this world so young. All the potential that was lost. LO IS the best true crime podcast out there. Josh, Joel, Kendall and Kendall's cousin ( my sincere apologies. I'll go look up your name) you'll are one talented family! Can't wait to see where you will take your talents and imaginations next!

[@nicoleohara1797]

YES! I CANNOT WAIT! have been watching since the loft apartment, everything has come so far 😢

[@butterbeanqueen8148]

I honestly don’t think people speculating about what caused this, is about giving these guys an excuse or a pass. It’s just the human condition to try to make rhyme or reason as to why this sort of thing happens. Trying to identify the reason or reasons this happened might help identify future red flags.

[@medic5ever740]

Two kids tried planting bombs in my school under the bleachers while we were all in the gym for an assembly. Luckily one of their friends heard of the plan and reported it to the police and they were caught before it happened.

[@marialobos123]

i dont remember exacty but i think American Horror Story has an episode exactly like this... i didnt know it was based on this case ...

[@ThePrincess242]

It was indeed based off of this! The library scene has become an iconic scene that I’ve seen many shows reference

[@kaylalovescoffee]

Your podcast was just what I was looking for 🤍 especially love your paranormal episode. You guys should go ghost hunting 😭

[@beesarelife2721]

Ooo good idea!!! Hope they do something like that!

[@kellenmarie3724]

I was born in 1981 and in high school in California when the shooting happened. The following week we had a bomb treat at our high school and were evacuated to the nearby community college. The following week another high school in the same city also had a bomb treat. It was the first high school shooting that I had ever seen in the U.S. It is something I’ll never forget to this day, being a senior in high school at the time. Thank you for this video. Love your channel!