The Commodore 128 - My favorite 8-bit home computer

[@BilHerd]

Excellent summary! BTW the 1902 monitor is made to fit on the flat C128 by virtue of having two rear legs. The front of the monitor sits on the flat part of the C128 and the rear legs hold it level. :) -Bil Herd (olde Commodore Engineer)

[@retrobitstv]

Interesting, I did not know that about the 1902! I even had one up till a few weeks ago. Running a C-Net 128 BBS in my early years certainly played a huge role in informing my education and career choices and I believe it gave me a huge advantage in what followed. So thank you for this wonderful machine and the lifetime of opportunities it enabled!

[@JamieOrlando]

Nice! My 1084 has rear legs as well so I will probably use it with my new-to-me C128 since my A500 decided to go crazy.

[@bilherd7913]

@@JamieOrlando I could not remember if the 1084 had them or not. Excellent.

[@seisoloumano]

@BilHerd, you complained about the absence of an interrupt signal from the 8563 vdc. Why they didn't used it in 8568 either? With an updated routine wouldn't it be slightly faster?

[@c128stuff]

@@seisoloumano The 8568 came after Bil left Commodore, so I doubt he can answer that... but yeah... it would have been good if they had added support for that. How much it saves really depends a lot on what code is doing with vdc. What it especially allows is making efficient use of VDC's copy and fill acceleration without having to poll VDC every so often to see if it is done yet, and it could allow much easier syncing to vblank without wasting lots of cpu time on waiting for that.

[@st.brendancatholicchurchel9868]

Great video! Enjoyed it. I went from a VIC20 to a C64 breadbin to a C128 and still have all my original computers along with original drives and software including both GEOS 64 and 128. All still work. For the C128 I have a 1571 and a 1581. I not only continued playing my C64 games on it, being a teacher and taking classes to obtain my Masters degree, I used it write papers, type letters, make my own educational materials (study guides, worksheets, puzzles, etc.), print banners and signs, and a monthly newsletter for our local education association. The C128 was a great computer!

[@TSteffi]

What crippled performance for CP/M on those home computers was the lack of a terminal. Just recently I ported CP/M 3 to a Z80 SBC and the terminal code is by far the most complex part of it. Usually a CP/M system would just send a character to the serial port and be done with it. But when it has to be it's own terminal, it has to keep track of screen coordinates, handle control codes, translate Screen coordinates to VRAM addresses and so forth. There is a huge amount of overhead just controlling the screen.

[@FarpointFarms]

I've always felt that Geos 128 with a REU and a 1581 was every bit as good as a Mac of the era for a fraction of the price. I used mine up through the late 90's for running a small business. The monitor got flakey and that was why i finally sold it. Now I wish I had another. I'd upgraded the video ram to 64K, maxxed out the RUE to 2 meg, and had a 1571 as well as a 1581 to help GEOS be all that it would be. The 1531 mouse and 1801 monitor rounded out the setup. I also had a swiftlink for BBS usage until they faded away in the late 90's. It certainly was a great system!

[@retrobitstv]

Nice, thanks for sharing! It's pretty incredible what you got for the price and what it was capable of, especially considering the cost of a new Mac back then!

[@cybermodo]

@@retrobitstv , sad truth is that with all that money wasted on REU, 1571 + 1581, monitor and mouse - would've been enough for buying quite powerful PC system, far more better than that overpriced Commodore junk. And Windows/GEM GUI systems worked great on PC. If cheap MAC was the goal, there was always Atari ST (Jackintosh). C64 was cool cheap computer, but peripherals were atrociously expensive. Especially in later period, when for example, 1541 drive retained the same price as 40MB hard drive for PC!? That was ludicrous.

[@eng3d]

@@cybermodo not really, pc was a hell of expensive, i used a mga video card + no audio (beeper) for a long time while my atari 800xl had sounds and color for a fraction

[@cybermodo]

@@eng3d True, back in 1991 I got PC with monochrome Hercules, and C64 was cheerful, fast and colorful in comparison, for a fraction... but other resources were non-comparable. Hard drive, fast CPU on 16MHz, 1MB of RAM, 1.2 floppy, sharp monitor with 720*348 pixels and cool GUI... C64 with GEOS couldn't compete at all. Besides, PC owner could've purchased old 2nd hand NES for a dime, and have fun.

[@Ahamshep]

Growing up with a commador 64 in the 80's I bought a used 128 for $500 CAD in 1990 than bought an AMD 386 DX40 in 1992 for $1200 CAD in Toronto. I was a little behind the curve, but that 386 sure beat the pants off the 128.

[@DerNikDE]

I owned a 128 back these days with almost all Hardware options, including the 1581. I even hat a graphics extension from a Swiss company that provided real high-res… I don’t exactly know what the name of this option was. Well, now looking back i have to say the 128 flat was and still is the most beautiful homecomputer - not ignoring the Apples of that time.

[@MrJojofoto]

I had the C-128 and the Amiga 500... such amazing times

[@gnustep]

The 128 is the best of the 8bit era. I had one and I loved it.

[@gunayhanayli10]

My second 8 bit computer was c128. Dream years.

[@wlsmojo]

I was clueless back then. Didn’t know anything about compatibility and I wanted to play C64 games,. I bought a C 128 and thank God it was compatible with the C 64.

[@DasIllu]

The 128 was the perfect machine for me. Build in machine code monitor, powerful basic, practically dual heal setupand so on. I had a 128D in a metal case with 64k VDC ram, an REU with 256k extra ram, 1581&1571 external drives and all the stuff. I would just start writing programs, never knowing where it would take me. When i got my first IBM compatible i just used it to run TASM and a homebre transfer program for centronic -> userport. i think it was until 1999 when i gave it all away, that i would spend nights on end tinkering. Fond memories.

[@mattx5499]

Amiga case designs were apparently based on C128. Even the C128D and desktop Amigas look alike. That was a good choice, since similar keyboard ergonomy design was still there until late 90's and modern mechanical keyboards seem to emulate this somehow.

[@yucelbilik]

C=128 is like a diamond, rare and precious.

[@stuartbuffery2553]

Amen to that 👍

[@BillAnt]

And just like diamonds with the 4 "C"s, Common Commodore Crappy Computer. lol relax, just kidding!!

[@ohtych1004]

Diamonds aren’t rare, they are expensive because they have a monopoly on the profit and intentionally slow down supply to increase price. You can make a Diamond with a hydraulic press and coal

[@yucelbilik]

@@ohtych1004 You're right, NASA explained that has been discovered a huge diamond planet.

[@jldel615]

Great video on a favorite topic of mine. The Commodore 128 was a favorite computer of mine back in the day. I had the computer itself, the Commodore monitor, the new andimproved disc drive, and a great printer from what company I can’t remember. But it was a great set up. I wasn’t really a game guy, but I ran all kinds of productivity software and office type software on my C1 28. Among the most memorable and my favorites were GEOS, Word Writer 128, Data Manager 128, Swift Calc 128, Publish-It, Checkbook, Poster maker, PocketWriter, Copy II, Desk Manager And so much more. Sadly, it was released probably a year or two late to capture the market it needed to capture. By the time it was released, there was too much competition from new 16 bit machines.

[@wadereynoldsgm]

I meed to restore my childhood C128. I restored my old C64 and 1541 in 2018. Thanks for the great video!

[@shaunhall960]

I recall a good friend and neighbor back in the 80's got a C128. He was doing a lot of creative things with it and on Saturdays I would bring over my C64 and we would play games. Good times!

[@ivanl.8201]

Thank you for the video! I remember going to London with my mom in 1985, where she bought a ZX Sinclair Spectrum+ for me. But, by 1987, I was literally drooling over the C128, and loved the idea of it having 3 CPUs in one unit and being able to do so much. But it wasn't meant to be. My friends started buying Amigas in the late 80's, and I got a PC XT clone for my 15th birthday. I do remember seeing one of these C128's in person for the first time in 1991. It was in our high school computer lab, and we were doing assignments in Turbo Pascal on it. It was on its way to being outclassed by the PC's that were starting to replace it, but I thought it was so cool that it was still able to run Borland's Turbo Pascal via CP/M mode, and I recall that it ran it quite respectably :).

[@JohnGuillorykf5qeo]

Only 2 cpus. But it had c64, c128, and cp/m mode, so 3 modes but only 2 cpus.

[@michaelblair5566]

The Commodore 128 was my second computer. I got mine in 1985 after I'd had a VIC 20 since 1981.

[@georgemargaris]

I had the 128 D, it's where my love for programming started

[@georgemargaris]

@referral madness , now? a bit of everything.... am also forced to constantly learn new ones. Only C/C++ has been with me for the longest time.

[@BillAnt]

Having a built-in debugger was a big bonus, however with all the utility cartridges it's kind of a moot point.

[@user-vp1sc7tt4m]

Mine too!

[@ezragonzalez8936]

I am 44 the 128 was my first computer had the whole set up drives 512k expansion an okidata dot matrix printer and monitor .. geos was great I finally tossed it in the trash back in 2006 should had donated it to someone instead no one wanted obsolete computers even back then . cheers from Salt Lake City

[@ThePaulLondoner]

The Commodore 128 is certainly an amazing computer. I call it "the fixed an upgraded Commodore 64". I think that the reason it wasn't more successful was because it cost more than the C64 and the C64 wasn't discontinued, leaving the C128 in its place. I'm planning to make a reproduction C128D(CR) using a USB keyboard, an emulator, and a Raspberry Pi computer hidden in a box designed to look like a C128D(CR) casing. I'm not sure how to make the box, though. As for if there were any 8 bit computers that are more amazing than the Commodore 128, I think there may have been, but they weren't sold in the USA. These are the MSX2, MSX2+, and MSX Turbo-R range of computers. They were all based around the Z80 CPU, although the Turbo-R also had the R800 CPU. I think the graphics on these computers were somewhere between the Atari ST and the Amiga. Another amazing computer was the Enterprise, available in 64K and 128K versions. This was based around the Z80, but with its own custom graphics and sound chips. Once more, the graphics were better than all other 8 bit computers except MSX2, MSX2+, and the later MSX Turbo-R. You can read more about MSX2 in my blog post commodore64crap.wordpress.com/2014/10/27/msx2-the-c64-killer-computer-banned-from-the-english-speaking-world-part-1/ My blog is mainly explaining what was wrong with the Commodore 64, with some posts about other computers and why they were better. I sold my Commodore 64 after 11 months. The Commodore 128 is featured on commodore64crap.wordpress.com/2013/10/25/the-commodore-128-the-fixed-and-upgraded-commodore-64/ as well as in a few more posts.

[@mrbrad4637]

Great content! GEOS was mind blowing in it's day.. It blew me away when I first booted it up on my C64, amazing OS for the hardware and even better on the C128.. I always wanted a C128.. It is also my favourite retro computer along with the C64.. But if I was going to purchase a 80s retro computer now, it would be the C128

[@retrobitstv]

Thanks for the feedback! I agree, it's amazing what they were able to achieve on a 1 MHz system with only 64KB of RAM. Contrast that to today and Windows calculator takes up almost 22 megabytes of memory by itself! Software developers back then really needed to squeeze every last ounce out of those machines. Mad respect :)

[@mrbrad4637]

@@retrobitstv Absolutely, it really puts it into perspective when you say Windows calculator takes up 22Mb!! Games aswell blow me away for example Mayhem in Monsterland looks and plays better than many 16bit console games of that era and it's running on a 1Mhz (or technically slightly less here in Australia with the PAL system) and only 64Kb of RAM.. Incredible programming skill. Sams Journey is another one, also the likes of turrican etc.. not too mention some of the scene demo's. I love the fact they are still making quality games for my favourite retro system. I really wished developers in the day took advantage of the C128 and made more games for it... GEOS 128 really took advantage of the 128 though.. I have many games and programs for GEOS and some of them are very impressive and fairly unknown to most. Anyway all the best with your channel, You have great content and well put together videos.

[@richj120952]

I bought a C128 the day they came out. (At Target) I had a C64, and wanted to use the 128 mode. Not much was available for it. I upgraded the 128 graphics chips. Went and bought the RAM expansion when it came out, and guess what. Commodore had sold me a 128 that did not support the RAM expansion. (Even though they advertised that it would.) They committed fraud as far as I was concerned. I kept using it though. Had the 1200 baud modem, 2 1571s and 1 1581 drives. Mouse, light pen, and even the 1902 monitor. (Along with a commodore printer 803.) Wanted GEOS128, but by then I needed to move on to a PC clone for work. Gave the 128 away along with a couple of hundred games and programs. Because that Commodore sold me a defective product and would not fix it, I swore I would never buy anything from them again.

[@telengardforever7783]

The Commodore 128 paired with SpeedScript/GEOS got me through high school and early college. To this day, I feel some of my best academic work was on that machine. It was so much easier to concentrate on a C=128 while working on papers than on other machines. Plus, the keyboard felt great.

[@retrobitstv]

I still enjoy typing on the 128. That is, once I get used to some of the different key placements :)

[@williamofbaskerville5777]

I had the Commodore 64, then the Commodore 128 and after that the AMIGA. The best programming experience gave me the Commodore 128 BASIC 7.0 - and because of that I just ordered a Colour Maximite 2, but that's a different story.

[@keithmcwhan8613]

I always thought the 128 was really under appreciated. I wanted to upgrade from the C64 to one but then the Amiga came out so I went with it instead. A friend of mine had one and it was truly fantastic.

[@cathrynm]

C128 was a good PC, I think just maybe a year or two too late.

[@c128stuff]

I borrowed a 128 for a little while in the 1980s for writing some software for it.. and liked it instantly. But like you, I did get an Amiga... and it took many years before I actually got a 128 (DCR). Now? I have 2 working 128 DCRs and spare parts to keep those working for some time to come... and no longer own any Amigas. The Amiga was certainly very interesting in the mid 80s to mid 90s... but long term, I find the 128 much more interesting and fun to use, and to develop for.

[@mattx5499]

@@c128stuff C128 wasn't that much of an advancement over C64. It was quite too late for 8-bits in 1985. There was Amiga and Atari ST on the market the same year. And Amiga was groundbreaking with far better graphics, sound and more memory. Amiga also had real multitasking and GUI OS that really made it nice to use. I understand that you may like C128, but it was no competition for 16-bits in a long run.

[@c128stuff]

​I am one of the most active current C128 developers, and very very knowledgeable with regards to the machine as well as the c64. The differences are much bigger than most people think, and are mostly left unexplored. A good example of one of the rare bits of software making good use of the extras the 128 has is the C128 version of Petscii robots. And I'm sorry to say, but the numbers simply show you wrong. The C128 and C128D sold close to 5 million, which is approx the same as all Amiga models together, and over twice as many as all Atari ST models together. The Amiga 1000 followed about half a year after the C128, and was in a completely different price bracket, and it would take until the A500 in 1987 for the Amiga to make that platform accessible to a much wider public. Even the ST was in an entirely different price bracket initially. Bottomline is the C128 was close to the end of the 8 bit era, but having done a lot better than most people think, and being a bigger improvement over the C64 than most people realize until they spent some serious time looking into the details.

[@mattx5499]

@@c128stuff Of course it's main selling point was the price range and also the compatibility with C64 was it's main advantage. No doubt, but C128 should've been released along with C64, as a professional computer with built-in 3'5 single sided floppy drive boundled with office suite on a cartridge. 80 Columns Mode was perfect for text processors and spreadsheets. The problem was that C= sucked at advertising their computers at business/professional market which resulted with it's bancruptcy.

[@jondough76]

After finding this channel, I have enjoyed watching several of your videos. I do have one suggestion/request. The simulated screen borders you use, while looking nice, have the effect of shrinking the video output being displayed. The shots without an added border are much easier to read in my opinion. Keep up the good work!

[@retrobitstv]

Thanks for the suggestion. I have added a poll to the community posts section to get a better feel for what devices people are using. Right now, it looks like mobiles are on top which surprised me. I can totally see that the overlays make everything too small on mobile. I have been more worried about 240p video captures displayed at full screen on large format TVs and computers looking bad, which is why I keep them intentionally small. I'll definitely try out some new stuff armed with this data. Thanks again!

[@QualityModelRailroad]

The C128 was a great hardware machine but sadly not enough "128 mode" software before I sold mine. Geo's 128 had not come out yet before I sold mine. If I had Geo's 128 I bet I would of kept it longer . Note basic 7.0 was awesome best built in basic ever.

[@mikeyswift2010]

That commercial for the machine was incredible. Very convincing!

[@carlwells9504]

My exposure to home computers was my friends 128D - his Dad also had a PC which it blew the pants off for games! I later got a C64C around 1986/87 but always envious of the 128 with the monitor and built in Disk drive.

[@alphahr]

Currently working on an EBay 128 purchase. Once I get it up and running I can start learning retrobrite techniques

[@retrobitstv]

Good luck and enjoy it!

[@SelfIndulgentGamer]

I always wanted one of these, I never understood why Commodore did not push this more? :)

[@ericshepperd4484]

Great video Matt! I remember when we upgraded to the 128, our first ever upgrade of a computer. I was full of expectation that the games would be twice as good! Now I know why that never really happened. Too bad I never got to use GEOS, I had no idea the 128 even had a mouse until I saw your video.

[@retrobitstv]

Haha yea, same ol' games, but the 80 columns was great for BBSing!

[@ericshepperd4484]

@@retrobitstv I bet, too bad I ended up in Korea in the late 80s, no BBSing. Plenty of "backups" though!

[@mortimore4030]

The Atari 130XE is my favourite 8-bit computer. Good video though.

[@Cpt.Zer0]

Got the suitcase version 128D. (And 2x A-1200 in pieces and a functional A-500, one day i will get around to fix these)

[@jlfaria1971]

Hola amigo en el año 86 mi papá me regalo una commodore 128, mi primera computadora y la ame como nunca, fue mi premio por pasar de 3er año a 4to año de bachillerato, y la conserve hasta que entre a la universidad y me vi forzado a cambiarme a un 286 clon, porque en la universidad la carrera de ingeniería de sistema solo usaban maquinas compatibles con IBM y dos

[@RussMichaels]

I ran my first business on my C128D using GEOS, superscript, superbase and supercalc... In fact I still have that C128D.

[@kcharles8857]

A very long time ago, I walked into a shop to buy a Commodore 128-D. I walked out with an Amiga 500. Thus began my addiction:)

[@kkedmonton]

Geos for work, school and office. Matser Tracks Pro for MIDI music creation. The step sequencer was fantastic; I still miss it so much until today. Coupled with a Korg DSS-1, Korg DW 8000, Korg DW 6000, Korg Poly 800, Korg DVP1, Oberheim Matrix 6 and a Yamaha RX5. The 128 was my machine until 1989 and It was used to its fullest capability. Dual floppies, high res monitor and a printer. Fond memories. I suck at music production but back then those toys were AMAZING and were worth a house. I wish modern DAWs were so easy. Geos word processor - Holy Shit - wrap around multi column and mixed fonts. Text wrap around graphics. Newspapers wished for that back then. 8 bit machines hit a wall and that was that. Commodore 64 compatibility killed the machine.

[@retrobitstv]

Nice, I haven't heard of anyone using the 128 as a sequencer before. I wasn't aware there was even any software for that.

[@kens32052]

My first computer was the TI99/4, then the TI99/4a which was in theory a 16-bit computer. After that a got the 64, 128, C64 Executive, Amiga 500, Apple 2, and then IBM PC. Now I wish I had kept them...sigh.

[@grtitann7425]

Awesome video . Brings memories of my brother from another mother Hancie, whom had a C128. Had awesome times playing with it. RIP Hancie.

[@lilithcal]

Loved programming assembly with the C128 using its hardware for sound.

[@upstairsroomsoftware4143]

I miss my C128... love that computer.

[@timecapsule5604]

To me regardless of everything that the 128 can do, it's the BIGGER brother who's the best 8 bit computer of all time the amazing best selling home computer of all time the magnificent Commodore 64!

[@NumosG]

The 128 has such a sexy look. These esthetics are also why the Amiga 500 looks so appealing to me.. I was really curious when I saw an older cousin programming on it. I never had one until a few years ago. That GEOS 128 is a rare thing, it just doesn't come up on ebay here. Hold tight to it (even though one can now download it, it just isn't the same).

[@jsmythib]

The 128 was loaded with potential. I recently discovered dual monitors is possible at 40 and 80col(Ega)....cool.....Oh what we could have done if beer and girls hadn't been discovered the same year the 128 was released :)

[@filmfinity9183]

Oh boy! This was my first home computer! Loved it!❗️☑️😁❤️

[@user-vp1sc7tt4m]

Same here.

[@michaelb4439]

I wonder, was that commercial narrated by the voice of the Hitchhiker's Guide? The 128 with GEOS was the computer I took to college, and quickly became the best-loved computer I've ever used.

[@MiharuHiramu]

Nice informative video. I had a C64C as a child but my cousins had the 128. I was always jealous of the numpad and separate cursor keys. In the end I got my own 128 much later but haven't gotten a chance to do anything but play 64 games since I can't find any 128 exclusive software.

[@AgeofReason]

Great show. I had the 128 in the 90s. Novaterm was awesome, didn't have any actual 128 software outside of CPM from what I remember, maybe some corny text based Tix tac toe game. Had the complete original set though, our aunt bought it in the 80s and retained that awesome 128/64/ BASIC bible user manual. Trying to find someone who put the Magic Flute SID program from that book online. I still hear it in my head.

[@retrobitstv]

Thanks for your support! Yea, it's too bad there simply wasn't a lot of developer support for the 128 mode because it had so much potential. Is this what you were looking for? I haven't heard of it before. csdb.dk/release/?id=2472

[@fcycles]

The C128 was my first computer... I knew Logo on IBM PC from school and programming (especially graphics) was my thing. The Basic V7 was really nice to have has poking commands looked too obscures. The 80-columns mode really bring a nice touch for his look and color for text mode. What kind of software I wrote in that early day? Drawing graphics (with interlaced 1 black line out of 2), phonebook, a super mario bros animation, designing space ship in the sprite editor and make them move with a space background, petscii game prototype, disk drive sector reader & trying out a custom disk format in basic where the file catalog is located on the first track/sector), trying to create some AI Chat-GPT stuff... I spend hours on the CP/M just playing in it... This is also where I first discover hexadecimal base... by doing: graphic 2,1:monitor:f 2100 2100 XX and trying a hypothesis I was having that perhaps values from 0 to F represents an arrangement of 4 pixels... and that together it control up to 8 pixels... so I try: 01 and plot on a piece of papere where the pixel lite up.. then 02, 04, 08, 10, 20, 40 and 80... At first, I though hum almost 2 pixels seem to not work... then I try again and yes seem so! From the table I wrote I then create a letter and write the 8 bytes that form and BINGO! Gotcha!

[@gd515051]

The 128 was my first computer. Had it for about a year and then moved on to the Amiga 500.

[@brorelien8447]

I get a C128 from my uncle. What I like with this kind of machine, it's the ability to go to a monitor easily and try to understand what's going on.

[@retrobitstv]

I'll admit back in the day, I had no idea how to use the 128's ML monitor. I learned some assembly years later, but still have very little 6502 experience.

[@GustoTheGamer]

C128 my first computer! I throw it away in the bin back in 1997......damn I regret this! The 128 great memories

[@retrobitstv]

Ouch! Yea, in hindsight I bet a lot of us would have held onto things from the day!

[@telengardforever7783]

BBSing on the C128 rocked!! I remember being able to use any ANSI/ASCII BBS that existed even though they were intended for IBM PC's. Most SYSOPs on those BBS's had no idea it was a Commodore 128 using their BBS as it worked flawlessly. Ironically, I had more problems with Commodore 64 based BBS's than I ever had with IBM and Amiga based BBS's.

[@lovemadeinjapan]

Good to hear. It is one of the things I am going to get this machine for. Recreating some 80's dialup stuff.

[@rlmiller007]

I bought mine at a grocery store..lol. I learned to program in basic on it. I wrote some pretty sophisticated programs on it. Fun Times!

[@Dankas10]

I owned C128 with both tape player and 1571 floppy disk. It was truly great machine. I used it mainly for games but also for BASIC programing and light word processing. The main obstacle to use it for more stuff in my case was lack of literature about programing in general in former Yugoslavia and particularly about Commodore machines. It was the shame since there was a substantial user base of C64 and C128 in former Yugoslavia. Software was not so difficult to get , but it was 99% pirate. I do not remember that there was any software available trough normal legal channels.

[@meneerjansen00]

Great informative video. I always think that video's like this benefit greatly from showing the hardware from any angle, inside out.

[@retrobitstv]

Glad you enjoyed it. Thanks for your support!

[@RacerX-]

Excellent video, subscribed. I also have fond memories of the 128. Keep up the good work and I am looking forward to future episodes.

[@retrobitstv]

Awesome, glad you enjoyed it and thanks for the support!

[@bbartky]

Great video! And just subscribed. 👍 And I agree, it was the best 8-bit machine ever. As another poster and you mentioned, the Basic 7.0 was really good. Also, I liked how you could boot from disk. I was able to combine these features with the C64 mode to create a program that booted from disk, loaded a menu where I could select and run my favorite C64 games in 80-column C128 mode, and then switch to C64 mode and launch the game automatically. The key was a program I typed in from a magazine that showed how to load code into the C64’s cartridge memory in C128 mode. As to why it wasn’t more successful, my gut feeling was that CBM should have spent its resources it used on the C16 and Plus/4 on the C128 instead. They probably could have brought it to market earlier. And the other thing I thought they should have done is marketed it to the educators. It had more bang for buck than anything back then. And as someone who has worked in Edu Tech schools I can tell you that schools really love that.

[@retrobitstv]

Thanks and welcome! Yea, if Commodore had done a few things differently (VIC-II that could run at 2Mhz?) the 128 could have been so much more. Sounds like you were able to customize yours nicely! I never thought about that but it makes sense I guess if you stick "CBM80" into $8004 and a JMP at $8000 you could run any code you wanted when switching to C64 mode. That sounds like a fun experiment, I think I may try that right now with the 128's built in ML monitor!

[@ipponyc]

Nice review!!! I used to have RAM expanders for both C64 and the C128. Performance was upgraded tremendously with a REU. Used to have 2 1581s and a 1571 drive. What's great about GEOS is if you didn't have a ram expander, you can use additional drives for file swaps, but it ran painfully slow.

[@retrobitstv]

Glad you enjoyed it :) Sounds like you had quite a nice setup! GEOS really does benefit from a few strategic upgrades. I'd love to see how it performs running on a SuperCPU and RamLink, but they're basically unobtanium now.

[@ipponyc]

@@retrobitstv I haven't seen SuperCPU, or RamLink in ages. Used to see it advertised back in the day on RUN magazine (for c 64 and 128). The computer still works, but both drives need an alignment. Awesome review!! I hope that you'll do more in the future with programming and game reviews!!!!

[@kethdredd]

I remember saving up my lawn mowing money to buy a 128 and the 1571. $600 IIRC in the summer of 1985. It was going to be amazing! 128K of RAM! Double the processing speed! CP/M, whatever the hell that was! A few months later my Dad bought an Amiga 1000 for Christmas. The 128 was never touched again, it felt like a dinosaur from another era compared to the Amiga.

[@retrobitstv]

Ouch! Well at last you got an Amiga to play with :) I started working on the local farm at age 11 to afford my Commodore habit, but my folks kept using an Apple //c right on up till the 486 era and I missed the Amiga days altogether.

[@f1lupo]

@@retrobitstvouch Apple II’s we’re crap compared to the C64 never mind the Amiga! man the poor kid that had an Apple IIe in our neighbourhood was always over the kids houses that owned Amiga’s😂

[@DerekHunt]

Fantastic Video! Can't wait for the next one!

[@retrobitstv]

Glad you liked it and thanks for the support!

[@alfredoavila2729]

I have the C=128. This is the only computer that correctly implements the concept of "emulation". The C=128 has the C=64 inside and if you are in C=64 mode there is no way to realize if your hardware is a C=64 or a C=128.

[@TheDooominator420]

I still have my orginal flat 128 with matching serial number on the box, a 128 dcr, 128cr, and daily use 128. Thats just my 128s lol

[@e8root]

I recently got Commodore 128D - plastic with MOS6581R3 and nice keyboard, nothing is yellowed. Had to remove PSU fan (I'll probably put some noctua + resistor to force some air flow) and I will have to install Lumafix128 and some mod to change drive device id. Otherwise it looks supreme on the desk and keyboard feels very nice.

[@KlingonCaptain]

My family was pretty poor when I was growing up and as a result we didn't get our first computer until I was 10 years old in 1993, which was a used Commodore 64. We did wind up getting a generic PC a few years later, but unlike the C64 my siblings weren't allowed to touch it. As a family we used the PC to visit the Star Trek BBC, but my dad was the one using the keyboard and was the extent of our interaction with it. I never even knew that the 128 existed until I was an adult.

[@javiergonzalez7104]

A C128 owner and fan myself, but I'd say the 40 column GEOS background on 8'30" wouldn't display the interference pattern if you used a split luma chroma video cable.

[@javiergonzalez7104]

Loved the video of course

[@retrobitstv]

Thanks for the feedback! I was using a split y/c cable with the 1084S monitor in the video when I was running Geos 64. I thought perhaps it was just an artifact of the camera so I tested it again today and that pattern is still present. Not sure what's going on there.

[@jsrodman]

Minor correction, the amiga never booted workbench from chips. Much of the functionality was in rom, but the programs tying everything together as a UI loaded from floppy or possible hard disk. Only in the modern retro era when you might have an emulated disk in flash would it load from chips.

[@little_fluffy_clouds]

Kickstart ROM, which contained low level system routines, was in ROM chips and the machine used that on power-on to display the famous “hand holding a floppy disk” welcome screen. You would then insert your Workbench floppy disk to load and boot the graphical user environment. This was slower, but a more flexible approach since updating ROM chips is costly and difficult, whereas it’s easy to release updates to the GUI environment on floppy.

[@gamedoutgamer]

Great vid on the 128!

[@miselzivanovic2181]

I received my C128 in 1987 as a gift. Had no idea what it was because I wasn't so into computers before. Can recall SPRDEF, the sprite editor and Go64 (where I thought something went wrong since SPRDEF wasn't working anymore) It came with German instructions and back then I knew only croation language). Can't remember where my C128 ended up, but I got myself 2 another few years ago. Unfortunately, never used, still in the box...

[@Kidd-nt3jo]

The C128 was my first computer as a kid. I loved it but always wanted an Amiga.

[@carnright]

Great dry humor, looking forward to watching more videos 🙂

[@BillAnt]

Dry as a dried out 80's electrolytic capacitor. xD

[@jaybrown6350]

I loved and miss my C-128. I sooooo badly wanted a C-128D. I also used Epyx Fast Load instead of JiffyDOS.

[@jjinnyc75]

I always wanted a C128 since I owned a C64 but we had moved on to PC compatibles by then. Loved GEOS

[@someguyoninternet802]

that background music so awesome tho

[@10MARC]

Why have I not seen your channel before??? Very odd. I love my C128D, she is loaded with JiffyDOS and an external 8/9 drive switch. I found some great CP/M Kaypro disks at a surplus shop the other day, and they booted right up on my C128. What an amazing machine.

[@retrobitstv]

Hey Doug, welcome! The channel is pretty new, just since the pandemic started. Nice, thanks for sharing your C128 memories!

[@unnecessarycomputerthings]

We had a couple TRS-80s (Model I and Model 16) but *my* first machine was a Commodore 128 with a 1571 disk drive and a copy of Gyruss.

[@SuneJorgensen]

I learned PolyPascal (Anders Hejlsberg also DK) on my C128D running CP/M. After learning BASIC and ASM on the VIC-20.

[@nandotz]

I still have my commodore C64c and the Atari 800Xl as souvenirs from that 8-bit era, ahh also use the GEOS system for homework, Greetings.

[@eebuckeye]

Excellent video! The C128 was great! Would be great to see more of them!

[@retrobitstv]

Thanks for your support. I plan on making more C128 content!

[@mr.painkiller4908]

I owned a c128d in those days. But the only command I remember, is "GO 64" ;-)

[@paulpentz4485]

C128 is still one of my favorite computers. I spent a lot of time on that thing! Sadly, I never tried GEOS 128. I wish I had now.

[@rhester1972]

Just found you (and will be subscribing), but I feel like you're a lost brother. We had EXTREMELY similar experiences with the C128, right down to DesTerm (and why!), though to be fair 3.0 was a bit towards the end of its run. I saw what you did with the REU demo there. LOL Fantastic (second? Really? VERY well produced!) review/video - thank you!

[@retrobitstv]

Thanks! Glad you enjoyed it and welcome :) I am pretty sure I used DesTerm v2 back in the day, as I had already moved on to a PC by '92 or '93. Still was great though!

[@weepingscorpion8739]

The 128 definitely doesn't get enough love. We had a 128 paired with a 1084 and the only minus with that machine was that it only had a 1541-II (which I still love dearly) and not a 1571 or 1581 disk drive. But I think that retro enthusiasts are beginning to see the potential. While it'll probably always be all but an afterthought because the 64 versions will come first, games that do take advantage of the expanded features really benefit from this. A title from back then would have been Ultima V but a modern title with both 64 and 128 versions is Attack of the PETSCII Robots, its 128 version even uses both monitors at the same time. So maybe there's hope in the future. Also, I noticed you only mentioned the 1571 and 1581 disk drives as having burst mode, well there was also the short lived 1570 disk drive which like the 1571 has burst mode but is single sided like the 1541. It's a rare beast but I was lucky enough to score one for not that much money recently. Great video.

[@dbauernf]

I owned a C64 and a few of my friends got the C128. Absolutely every one of them booted it in C64 mode to play games and used NONE of thee stuff mentioned in this video. I wasn't aware of ANY of it either! :)

[@347573]

His C64 compatibility was its power (due to the enormous software library available at launch time) but also its limitation, since many (almost all developers) didn't use the powerful features it provided!

[@BillAnt]

Indeed, as power as the C128 was, it was too little too late at the end of the 8-bit era, but the great memories remain. ;)

[@MarkRobertDupuy]

Late 8-bit era Color Computer 3 also had backward compatibility, new productivity "DeskMate" software, 80-column mode, twice as fast cpu, and ram expansion to 512k. I would not say it is better, except compared to earlier coco. The Apple IIC plus at a 4mhz 8-bit machine, with standard 80-column, 128k standard, expandable to over 1 mb of ram. 3.5" floppy internal. The C128 didn't have a compelling price to me. I had jumped into the computer scene, with a 1979 era Atari 400. By the late 80's I wanted another machine. The C128 was considered,.... It may have been $300 in the base unit, but by that time I realized I needed to add a floppy and a monitor to get what I wanted out of a computer. When adding up all the components, the C128 was as expensive as an Atari ST, but the Atari was true 16-bit, and software was being written for it. Anyway, as an Atari 400 user, going to the ST wasn't psychologically a big leap, even if it was entirely a different computer, with no relation to the 400.

[@retrobitstv]

I recently picked up a CoCo3 for the first time. It needs a small amount of work, but I'm looking forward to seeing what it can do and contrasting it to the 128! Our family did have a standard //c back in the day and the 80 col was great for word processing, it just didn't scratch my itch for games the way the Commodores did.

[@infinitecanadian]

While I don't think it to be better, I do still like my Atari 8-Bit.

[@cbmeeks]

I love the C128. But I admit I cringed when I saw that Commodore commercial drill into the side of that IIc.

[@AdamsOlympia]

I wish I knew about the C128 when I was a kid. Sure would have beat the Laser 128 (Apple 2 clone) that I got at the same time, for roughly the same price.

[@alexandermirdzveli3200]

Please try to make music not so loud in future videos.

[@retrobitstv]

Sorry about that! This was only my 2nd video and I have been working to improve the mixing since then. Hopefully you'll find the later videos to be a better volume!

[@BillAnt]

I guess the C128 was too little too late at the end of 8-bit era. Moreover developers preferred the lowest common denominator, the good old C64. ;) Oh and instead of Amiga tunes, play Commodore 128 tunes. he-he

[@JohnMDiLiberto]

@@retrobitstv Very impressive for a sophomore effort! I discovered your channel only last month (September 2021), and find the content and production values superb.

[@retrobitstv]

@@JohnMDiLiberto Thanks for the kind words and welcome! I really wanted to do justice to the subject matter since the 128 has a special place in my heart. Of course, with a few more episodes under my belt, there's a lot of things I would do differently now!

[@karabinas]

I had the C128, unfortunately they didn’t make a lot of software specificity for it.

[@MicahtheDrumCorpsPseudoboomer]

11:17 What about the Commodore 128D? Surely one could stack a monitor atop that!

[@DS-pk4eh]

It arrived at least one year too late. Especially the C128D version. I never understood why Commodore never went to double the performance of the VIC chip from C64, make an iteration rather than using a chip that was more oriented for text-based software (VDC). C128 D had great design and functionality. I have C128D, would love to buy a GEOS ROM chip.

[@c128stuff]

Hmm.. the geos chip isn't that usefull really... a 1581 boots GEOS128 about as fast. This is because the GEOS boot rom has to copy stuff to ram (and doesn't do that very efficiently) and still needs to read stuff from disk, and is rather picky about your configuration. Get an Ultimate II+ and try the C128 device manager crt for it.. it can ramboot GEOS128 from a preloaded REU, this is much much faster than the GEOS rom, and keeps being fast because your desktop and related files can be on a ram disk which also gets preloaded (from usb storage). Or you could also do this with a ramlink, but try finding one of those for less than a kidney...

[@DS-pk4eh]

@@c128stuff So I have these kidneys on the side . . . 😜

[@c128stuff]

@@DS-pk4eh btw, there is a video on my channel showing GEOS128 booting from REU (and starting a program). That is on a stock C128DCR with Ultimate II+, no supercpu or such 'trickery'.

[@DS-pk4eh]

@@c128stuff Now you have a channel? Who are you people?

[@c128stuff]

@@DS-pk4eh I'm just one of the many people still writing C64 and especially C128 code... 🙂 There is still quite an active demo scene especially on the 64, and still new games getting released. While it isn't getting as many releases as the C64, the last half decade probably saw more c128 game releases than the first 2 decades the machine existed. Especially the C128 native version of the Ozmoo zcode interpreter added quite a bit (as essentially all zcode based games now work, and take advantage of the extra ram, 80 colimn mode etc).

[@AmrToukhy]

Thank you for this Yeah I had the C128

[@user-yr1uq1qe6y]

I must be one of the few that did NOT buy the c128 for the c64 compatibility. I did more programming and electronics projects and had no commercial c64 software before upgrading. The CPM mode was less than useless and the 1571 speed crippled GEOS. But it took me through junior year of college :)

[@BusWithUs.]

Enjoyed that! Owned a 128 myself when they were released. Which demo was the music from?

[@retrobitstv]

Glad to hear it! The music is from Jeremy Blake (Red Means Recording) here on KZbin.

[@dmitriivanov7143]

I think Commodore missed an opportunity to introduce 2Mhz mode (between frame redraws) when they released 64C. If backwards compatibility was a concern they probably could've made a hardware-only solution with a 3-way power switch that would turn on 64C either in "normal" or "turbo" mode.

[@delscoville]

128D has 3 CPUs. But we usually don't count the built-in 1571's 6502.

[@retrobitstv]

True enough!

[@choppergirl]

Lack of a built in auto boot DOS, lack of a hard drive, and slow processor speed is what killed the Commodore line. Those three things killed it. The PC AT and Mac got them right and thereafter it became an infinite race of CPU speed increases, hard drive size increases, and OS upgrades.

[@xfi321]

I still have my 128. have not used it for over 30 years though. Maybe I should test if it still works :) . What is the most common issues after sitting so long. Also have a Sega Megadrive (japanese version.) But i it wont start. And 2 NES. and a Amiga 500.

[@retrobitstv]

Well, the C128 power supplies are not known to fail like the 64's did, so you should be okay there. Mostly it's just chips failing due to age, even when they aren't powered up they still degrade over time due to humidity, heat, etc. Fire up it and see, hopefully it'll just work!