The Commonwealth Is at Stake | The Crown (Olivia Colman, Gillian Anderson)

[@branflakes12341]

The queen in real life really did care about the commonwealth and was generally angry with the prime minister. She cancelled a weekly audience with her because of it.

[@snifey7694]

That's something I never knew, I mostly thought, since she views it as a part of her duty and has mediocre care for the commonwealth, but her passing has made it a little more personal for me, as I hail from Malaysia, a Commonwealth member state; I feel a connection to this organisation because Malaysia is shaped in colonialism, 1/5 of the time; by taking Tamil and Cantonese workers to settle and work, thus spawning the diaspora that shaped Malaysian culture. though its not pretty, the old empire did something Incredible with a nasty price but organisation, make unpretty memories, a reminder what shaped today but a tea party will always be nice every time the commonwealth conference held.

[@MTknitter22]

And the PM tried to explain things to her that she had not considered.

[@hutch1197]

@@MTknitter22 Regardless, most of the developed world was united on this issue with the exception of Thatcher and Reagan. Fortunately, both parties in Congress united to override Reagan and join the rest of the world. Thatcher's son had extensive business ties to South Africa. That was her real motivation. Even worse, her was son arrested and convicted in South Africa 20 years later for attempting a coup in Equatorial Guinea. Nice family. History has given the moral victory to the Queen.

[@juanchoresultay2704]

like forever or for just a week? Wait where did you hear this (usually these types of topics of the Queen and her pms are confidential )

[@sunandmoon24]

Gillian Anderson really did a wonderful job here

[@kathleenmurray3065]

Gillian Anderson was brilliant as Margaret Thatcher . The Queen was very kind to Margaret Thatcher when she had Alzheimers.

[@rr7firefly]

She perfectly captured those aspects of Thatcher that made her insufferable. At times I can imagine that the Queen had to restrain herself from throwing a heavy object at the Prime Minister's head. A good direct hit to put a dent in her ridiculous bouffant hairdo.

[@enikata7349]

I was hesitant to think she would do the role justice but I'm so glad to be wrong, she hit it out the ball park. It was pretty eerie tbh, she got Thatcher's mannerisms and voice down to a tee

[@planetclay]

except they left out their very closest associations to numerous high-ranking pedophiles.

[@michaelgarcia2973]

I just fell in love with Olivia Colman"s acting performance of Her Magesty The Queen Elizabeth II

[@Cadence733]

'It is not the business of a British prime minister to consult with unelected dictators' *cough* Pinochete *cough*

[@rr7firefly]

Gillian perfectly captured those aspects of Thatcher that made her insufferable. At times I can imagine that the Queen had to restrain herself from throwing a heavy object at the Prime Minister's head. A good direct hit to put a dent in her ridiculous bouffant hairdo.

[@darbyheavey406]

Thatcher was a world leader- the Queen is an ornament on an old Christmas tree.

[@rr7firefly]

@@darbyheavey406 We are not talking about positions of power. We are talking about Thatcher's lack of decency and her draconian principles that genuinely hurt people with limited incomes. Her positions were as much based on her megalomania as they were on what she espoused. Another commenter said something apt: "Thatcher was a pompous harridan."

[@MsLul123]

Thatcher was protecting her son’s business

[@MTknitter22]

We could wonder how altruistic the Firm’s interests were here as well. We had with these two ladies two wise leaders who actually learned from one another.

[@NightSkeptic]

@@MTknitter22 Except one was acting in good faith to her duties of office (Queen) and the other was a disatrous opportunist who was arguing to protect a position she had a personal stake in (Thatcher). History proves that South Africa was poorer for Thatcher's interference. It also proves that Britain was worse off for Thatcher in general. Wise? Perhaps. But don't ever think Thatcher wasn't corrupt to the bone.

[@stpaulmonard6441]

Exactly

[@JimmySteller]

Shame on Thatcher. Says a lot about you when the British Royal Family is on the correct side of the argument you’re having.

[@first703]

She was elected, the queen was not. She did the best for people who voted for.

[@timthetiny7538]

I mean South Africa has gone from having nuclear reactors to 16 hour daily blackouts lol

[@Nisselak]

@@first703 more like "she did the best for her son who had large investments in South Africa" 🙄

[@first703]

@@Nisselak there are more than just her son who invested in south africa.

[@michaelgarcia2973]

Gillian Anderson played Prime Minister Thatcher to perfection

[@oyaami1874]

The commonwealth was important when Britain needed commonwealth soldiers to fight two world wars.

[@juansebastianfragozo674]

In both Word Wars it was the Empire, not the Commonwealth. Britain used its Empire to help in the fight.

[@vulpes7079]

​@@juansebastianfragozo674 the second time around all Dominions were fully sovereign. It was already a Commonwealth and not just the Empire

[@serenasmith26]

@@vulpes7079 And if the Nazis won the Commonwealth would be next in the firing line from either the Japanese or the Germans and they knew that and that's why they got involved.

[@TheMap1997]

Back then, but it was irrelevant during Thatcher time, even now.

[@prismaticmarcus]

@@TheMap1997 i don't think you can consider a body that comprises about a quarter of the world's countries and a third of its population to be irrelevant.

[@Sesman911]

The commonwealth is at war with the institute.

[@Mackinstyle]

You stay the hell away from my map. It's already basically illegible.

[@vulpes7079]

What institute

[@JackTheShadowMuncher]

@@vulpes7079 The Institute

[@ashawesome7234]

@@vulpes7079it’s a fallout 4 reference.

[@TEMMIS]

Crown? England? I don’t know what you’re talking about General. All I know is another settlement needs our help. I’ll mark it on your map.

[@RoseRedd-k4b]

Boy the Queen is really annoyed by Margaret Thatcher. I bet when she comes in to her drawing room she is like, Ughhhh

[@MTknitter22]

Yes I think the feeling was mutual.

[@RoseRedd-k4b]

@@MTknitter22 😃

[@utareangara5529]

Lizzie being a total bad ass

[@michaelgarcia2973]

Helen Mirren also did a fine performance of Her Magesty The Queen Elizabeth II

[@marlenewilliamson4005]

Thatcher's stand was because of her son's business interests .

[@poussinhamzah4013]

Les deux ont leur propre perspective, La Reine était dévoué à son rôle en tete du Commonwealth tandis que Madame Thatcher était préoccupée par la gestion du pays......

[@nthabi25]

As a South African the commonwealth is not that important to us. I only found out about Commonwealth Day when I moved to the UK. We don’t celebrate it and we certainly do not even acknowledge it. It is celebrated here in the UK purely to optics. To give impression of Empire

[@AndoCommando1000]

Same here as an Australian. The Commonwealth never features in our lives. It's not a thing for which we feel any affinity or meaningful part of our identities. Weirdly, people in the UK seem have these pseudo-reverent beliefs about the Commonwealth. But it's such nothing-burger in the lives and countries of ACTUAL countries IN the Commonwealth. When I moved to the UK, Brexiteers kept harping on stupidly about returning to the Commonwealth. It's as though they didn't realise the Commonwealth pretty much only exists on paper. It is not a political anything.

[@kendallbedford2523]

While I think and know that anything the monarchy did was only to benefit THEM some of the recourses in action were needed but how Britain went about doing it was definitely inappropriate. This is why nobody in any African country or pan African country mourned the death of the queen. Me personally I could care less about the monarchy especially given their history to the slave trade.

[@nthabi25]

@@AndoCommando1000 interesting to know that is the case in Australia too... pseudo reverent 😂 that is exactly what it is

[@isotropisch82]

I am British and I have never heard of Commonwealth Day. We absolutely do not celebrate commonwealth day and no one cares about the commonwealth. I would add though, that countries are completely free to leave the commonwealth, three have left, Ireland, South Africa and Pakistan, and the latter two came back. International cooperation is a good thing.

[@baltasarnoreno5973]

UK citizen here. I have never heard of Commonwealth Day, nor do I recall any mention of it in the media etc.

[@RyanRuark]

Thatcher was such a wicked creature

[@YangBalanceYin]

Couldn't have the son's business ventures jeopardized...

[@darbyheavey406]

The ANC was a tool of the USSR. SA today is a hell hole. The UK is next if Brits dont get a pair. Imagine defeating the Germans & the USSR and falling to a mob of imported tribal barbarians that fornicate with goats.

[@jessesaavedra2517]

Her favorite haha

[@progguy10]

Claire foy and Gillian Anderson just having a tour de force on screen

[@chrisshoemaker3855]

That’s Olivia Colman playing the Queen

[@kimberlyc1406]

wrong actress, Claire played the younger version last season

[@adelaferreira4575]

Not Claire Foy,the Oscar winner actress is Olivia Colman !

[@molelekitumelo7639]

Thatcher was being difficult

[@SymphonyBrahms]

As she usually was.

[@Afroman29]

She was being pig headed and obstinate.

[@NightSkeptic]

"corrupt" Corrupt was the word you were looking for.

[@jessecarozza6745]

Her son had dealings in SA; sanctions would've hurt the family coffers.

[@jcf2322]

Yeah, in the long run Thatcher's position was not very justifiable, but she was coming from a position of what was best for the people who elected her, the health of the British economy, and whom she was ultimately accountable to. The queen was right to push, and push hard, and the background diplomacy ultimately came out ahead.

[@JWRogersPS]

Yet her actions did irreparable harm to Britain's economy. That's because she wasn't acting on behalf of the British people, but on behalf of her own twisted ideology.

[@jcf2322]

@@JWRogersPS That's debatable. Her economic policies had a heavy hand on reducing the power of organized labor, but it's not a given that was necessarily a bad thing. Many of the nationalized industries were propping not productive sectors, and you can only keep that up for so long.

[@JWRogersPS]

@@jcf2322 Spoken like a true conservative.

[@rational9229]

@@JWRogersPS As Thatcher said, the problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money.

[@nastropc]

⁠@@jcf2322The shift to neoliberalism and privatisation of utilities begun under Thatcher has been a stellar success. I’m off to catch a cheap reliable train for a day trip to the beach to swim in the clean sea. Must remember to buy a cheap Royal Mail stamp from the wonderful reliable Post Office to post my cheap electric bill on the way, and fill up my water bottle with a refreshing, safe and cheap drink from the tap, before getting a cheap reliable bus to the train station.

[@NoNo-or2wj]

glad they kept thatcher's unabashed racism, would have been way too unrealistic for her not to bring up the fact that she thinks of africa as uncivilized tribes

[@peter455sd]

And what is sub-saharan Africa ? Tell me.

[@IT-qb7dw]

​@@peter455sd richest continent

[@inmyelementblue7186]

@@peter455sd and why are you people so obsessed with what is civilized or uncivilized what doesn’t stand to your standards? If you don’t like something you leave it alone. They never asked you to bring them anything. They survive the way they’ve been surviving for centuries thousands of years. whether or not you qualify them as civilizer uncivilized it doesn’t mean that you should be intruding yourselves in their affairs or in their way of life. Typical white people mindset.

[@mckenzie.8653]

@@peter455sd Africa is civilized. Don't be ignorant.

[@peter455sd]

@@mckenzie.8653 Pffttthahahahahahahahaha.....

[@iluop3623]

I hate Margaret for not supporting the Commonwealth

[@brober]

Thatcher was a pompous harridan. Poor Denis.

[@Afroman29]

Yes she was

[@junkboxxxxxx]

YES THE COMMONWEALTH YOU QUNT

[@JoseSanchez-cc8rr]

That insufferable, corrupt, and perfidious woman from Grantham.

[@manu_val]

Said a frowny nobody.

[@SymphonyBrahms]

Thatcher was a hateful old hag.

[@Afroman29]

​@@manu_valsaid a mindless nobody.

[@olasek7972]

egg headed leftists hate her, love it 😂

[@lauren9004]

Interesting

[@ReaverLordTonus]

So was Thatcher racist or something? Pretty sure she could have maintained economic continuity while expressing some measure of condemnation for Apartheid.

[@3dartxsi]

Really is impressive to be more racist than the Queen of England.

[@here_we_go_again2571]

I've got to agree with Thatcher about the British economy and South Africa. BUT I've got to agree with HMTQ about the Apartheid regime in South Africa

[@jeanlebreton2049]

"HMTQ" 😂 you have way too reverence for a powerless hereditary monarch

[@sjn7688]

Hence why 'doing the right thing' is not always so clear.

[@NoNo-or2wj]

nice to know that you too would ignore the actual voices of the people whose lives you're deciding

[@here_we_go_again2571]

@@NoNo-or2wj Thatcher was responsible for the citizens of the UK who voted her into power. She was NOT responsible for what was happening in a Commonwealth Country. The sanctions were not good for the economy of the UK

[@laetiziacoronet243]

@@jeanlebreton2049 We just saw her talking directly to the PM. I wouldn't call that powerless.

[@keithammleter3824]

This TV show was speculative fiction - on this segment anyway - the weekly sessions of the PM with the Queen were secret. However, Thatcher as portrayed was dead right. The empire was basically lost. Britain was stuffed, stuffed by World War driving it bankrupt, and stuffed by poor post-war leadership. It was up to Britain to fix its own troubles - the countries of the former empire would not. Further, her opinion that sanctions just don't work is correct. They didn't bring down South Africa, they caused it to strengthen - e.g., making their own gasoline. Current sanctions against Russia are only making it stronger - fixing its technology production issues, fixing its internal supply chain, and looking to China and North Korea to trade with. Pre-war sanctions against Japan not only made it stronger, they induced it to start a war against the USA.

[@MTknitter22]

All know that a great many things with the Royals that “are supposed to be secret” end up with leakers leaking. But your points about sanctions correct as proven by history.

[@SymphonyBrahms]

But sanctions were necessary against an evil apartheid state like South Africa.

[@Afroman29]

Empires are like sand castles. Only the tide is forever. - Inspector Kido- Man In The High Castle. The British Empire died at the end of WWII and couldn't never be maintained after the war or brought back. The Commonwealth was right to impose sanctions on a regime that was openly racist and discriminated against a proportion of the people of South Africa because they were different. The other commonwealth leaders and the queen were right and. Thatcher was only thinking of herself as she often did without regard of the fact of what was happening on the ground in South Africa. The rest of you nonsense babbling about sanctions on Russia is incorrect. Ukraine was invaded illegally and Russia like any other country has to face consequences. I also doubt China seriously wants to support Russia after their disastrous war so far, they haven't supported Putin and they shouldn't. Maybe check your facts next time.

[@keithammleter3824]

@@Afroman29 You have confused intent with effect. It was perhaps morally right to impose sanctions, as the SA regime was indeed racist and discriminative, but as pointed out, sanctions were counter productive. Russia was indeed wrong to invade Ukraine - an illegal act. But, again, that doesn't mean sanctions will work, and they haven't. Putin has carried on regardless. There is absolutely no sign that Putin will cease his illegal action due to sanctions and every sign that he will continue with the war. The sanctions have made Russia stronger: At the start of the Ukraine war, Russian tanks were fitted with French-made sensor and fire control systems. Now the French systems have been replaced by Russian-made systems built with Chinese parts. Before the sanctions, Russian trade with North Korea was negligible. Now it is significant. Russia is buying lots of arms from North Korea. Russia's trade with China has increased. The Russian car & truck industry was heavily dependent on the West for know-how, machine tools and parts. Since that has been cut-off, Russia has turned to China for expertise and car/truck parts, and their car manufacturing is stronger than ever. Did you not see news reports about Fat Kim visiting Putin, and Putin visiting Fat Kim? Did you not see news reports about Putin and Jinping signing treaties recently? Treaty of Friendship (renewed), Treaties for economic cooperation (several signed last year)? Sure, China SHOULDN'T support Russia. But that certainly does NOT mean they WOULDN'T. They are. It might be morally wrong, but it suits them. There's money in it, and its a case of "up yours" to the USA. Looking at the Ukraine War from the Russian viewpoint, it looks far from disastrous. Sure, vast numbers have been killed and injured on both sides. But looking at how much Ukraine territory is Russian controlled today with how much 2 years ago, not much has changed. Putin is in for the long haul. He can afford to be -Russia has 150 million people, Ukraine only 32 million (counted before many left due to the war). Putin is banking on the West becoming tired of supporting the Ukraine - as soon as that happens, Ukraine is finished. The West is banking on Putin becoming tired first. You should understand the big picture: It probably doesn't matter whether Russia wins or looses in the Ukraine. Either way, Putin will likely wait a bit for military lessons to be learnt, then attack another former Iron Curtin country.

[@mrsupremegascon]

@@Afroman29 China very much support Russia, and it's less and less a disastrous war as Ukrainians forces are being pushed back from the Donbass. At this rate, especially with the US and EU support for Ukraine getting weaker and Zelensky being far less popular than 2 years ago, Putin will most likely claim victory and keep the 4 Oblats they currently control after a cease fire. A sign that we go on that direction is Zelensky accepting for the first time since the beginning of the war, to make a peace summit with Russians (maybe even Putin) in Switzerland that November.

[@zacmumblethunder7466]

Sorry, this was done much better in the stage play "The Audience" with Helen Mirren. The dialogue was more convincing and had more bite.

[@Xerxes2005]

Thatcher was a proponent of realism in politics. In her mind, the country's foreign affairs must be aimed at furthering and protecting the country's interests. Morality, principles or ideology do not factor in. Apartheid may be bad, but she believed it was not worth fighting South Africa over it and risk losing 3 billion pounds in trade. The Queen here is more an idealist. She's fighting for principles and values. I believe that, generally, realism will do the lesser harm. But sometimes, you need to stand for what is right. Thatcher was on the wrong side of history here.

[@isotropisch82]

You are right, realism is temporary, idealism is less temporary. Thatcher came and went and she (and the UK) was remembered for supporting apartheid, no one praises her for that now.

[@wesjanson6979]

actually she was on the exactly correct side of history. give the nation over to the native Afrians and what happens? Economy destroyed, country in ruins, genocide against any whites still living in the country. They got to be rulers of their own wasteland that's true, but the same nation that was prosperous, modern, and capable is just a bunch of fucking dirt with blacks in charge. Apartheid didn't go far enough obviously and Elizabeth surely has a substantial amount of blood on her hands for falling for this bullshit.

[@darbyheavey406]

In 2024 SA cant feed itself after being Africi'a breadmasket for a century. SA is ruled by commies & tribal idiots.

[@faithlesshound5621]

The Marquess of Salisbury (one of Queen Victoria's prime ministers) repeatedly expressed the view that the morality taught to ordinary people, and the sentiments of the Sermon on the Mount, have no place in politics or business. He said "The poor in spirit are not blessed, and the meek shall not inherit the earth." He remains a hero of the Right.

[@RK-um9tu]

Thatcher was a racist. None of your excuse making changes that historical fact Also the fact that your wrote, "Apartheid 'may be' bad" makes it prefectly clear who you are and what your believe.

[@goli4t18]

Despite what you may think of Thatcher and her "reign", sanctions were proven more than enough times throughout the history to be ineffective. Sanctioned countries' governments always ended up spinning the narrative to its citizens that their lower level of economic welfare (which sadly is an inevitable result of sanctions) is caused by some kind of outside, hostile influence while conviniently painting themselves as the defenders of sovereignity. As we can unfortunatelly see, that lesson was still not learned with sanctioning Russia because of the war with Ukraine.

[@whatwhat3825]

Sanctions don't work in a day, or a week, or a month. They creep in in years. Every year, you tick down a couple % points in growth. After 5 years, they're 10% behind you. Cuba is a perfect example of a country where sanctions have devestated it's economy. Russia is not growing in any meaningful way. They're 2 years into a war of aggression, and as long as they continue it and act as a belligerent regieme the further they will fall behind with a lack of investment.

[@TheMap1997]

Thatcher is right. Commonwealth is nothing more than organisation that meets couple times a year and held games. Americans have more leverage to these countries than Britain even though they're outside of the commonwealth

[@Afroman29]

Thatcher was wrong. South Africa is a commonwealth country and other commonwealth leaders were right to slap sanctions on the racist dictatorship in charge then. Thatcher was as always being pig headed and only thinking of herself, not of the people being discriminated against.

[@oriesheppard8498]

I feel like the Iron Lady was racist.

[@mayaflici374]

Her son was a businessman. In south Africa. Of course she wouldn't want a stop to that regime thru economical difficulty.

[@Brend.0]

Just benefited from racism​@@mayaflici374

[@SymphonyBrahms]

You think so? Yes.

[@Afroman29]

She was very racist

[@Afroman29]

​@@mayaflici374yet the regime there was brutally opressing people because they were a different skin colour. Thatcher showed her trueself, a racist bigot.

[@vanillaaudio185]

Just couldn’t fucking help yourself Peter. With the anachronistic maga reference.

[@mckenzie.8653]

Take deep breaths! It'll be ok 😂

[@caterpillar1936]

I wouldn't say its anachronistic. I can imagine 'make britain great again' being said by Thatcher in passing, and Olivia Coleman did a good job of acting like it was the first time she'd ever heard the phrase.

[@Afroman29]

​@@mckenzie.8653take a deep breath, no one cares. 😂

[@gayan2517]

Anti Apartheid vs Pro Apartheid.

[@09rja]

Not really. Just disagreement as to how to deal with it.

[@patrickt.4121]

MBGA!

[@Afroman29]

MAGA Moron. 😂

[@Otto_VonJizzmark]

The common wealth is a joke haha

[@Afroman29]

Thatcher was and still is a joke.

[@peter455sd]

So it was the queen that destroyed S. Africa,now we know...

[@zackzeman6449]

no it wasnt

[@2511dhall]

Not really, she was the Queen of South Africa but never had any say in how to run the country as in all the realms had a Viceroy.

[@yucol5661]

Was getting rid of apartheid “destroying South Africa” to you? I guess we know that you only care about money and not quality of life. Or you only care about the life of the elites