The Complex Matter of Fear & Hunger

[@Painticus]

Hello! I'm jumping in preemptively here to address some criticism I know I'll get for the video. Below are some things I've heard other people say to shut down criticisms of the game before, and other things are more specific to this video which I reckon people will bring up. "You know you can just install a censor mod, right?" Yeah - I've seen it. I've got some friends that play with censor mods on, and that's fine for them. But, as I say in the video, the nudity is okay by me. The SA and whatnot is what bothers me. Installing something to remove that aspect of the game for a review would be effectively pulling wool over everyone's eyes in an attempt to make the game less controversial - when the SA and generally inappropriate content is something the developer intentionally put into the game. This is not something we should overlook because we like other aspects of the game. We have to call out things that are unacceptable or detrimental to a product - even if we like the rest of it. Conversely... "You're just oversensitive about the SA." Not quite, I just have standards. And as far as shock content goes, it's not even that effective. It's just distasteful and edgy. "You built your character all wrong, of course you found it tedious in parts. You can get an immediate speed boost if you choose to immediately rush to the dungeons in the intro, and if you pick Cahara or D'arce as your playable character the game is much easier." (and any other 'just do xyz and you'll be fine' type comments) I know that now, but I didn't know when I started. A new player wouldn't know these things. More importantly, a new player shouldn't know these things. I approached this (relatively) blind, and reviewed my experience as such - because that's how I cover almost every game on this channel. That's how most people approach most games - especially horror games which are usually very far removed from the idea of a meta build. For a game that has its main strengths in atmosphere, visuals, and narrative, having a super pragmatic and mechanically focussed approach is pretty counterintuitive. If I wanted to play a power fantasy JRPG, I'd play one. "You just don't like hard/dark/bleak games." I do - genuinely, I really do. Not the ultra-hard kinds that are made to infuriate like a lot of gimmick platformers and whatnot, but the ones that are mechanically, thematically, or narratively tough. I mention the Souls games in the video, and they are (with one exception) some of my favourite games ever. I also mention STALKER - a notoriously bleak and unforgiving game, which happens to be my favourite FPS series. I've also covered games like Hexcraft: Eventide Sigil on the channel which is a very grim game in tone, and I really enjoyed it. The game that I've covered which is probably closest to Fear and Hunger in terms of tone and difficulty would be Darkwood, another game I adored. The "difficult" parts of Fear and Hunger that I disliked were all timewasting mechanics and RNG events, which these other games largely (or entirely) lack. Which leads me to... "You're just impatient." There's a fine line between being patient and disrespecting your own time. You have to choose what to be patient for - and with a video game, if I know there are other video games out there without the problematic content that will provide a similar (if not better) atmosphere and payoff than what I'm currently playing, I'll have all the patience in the world. For the other game. Not to get too existential with it, but we've only got so much time, and I'd rather not spend it on coinflips. "You can get explosive vials in a few ways - you can find them and craft them." Indeed you can! But there are two major problems with that. Firstly, the currency you need to buy the guaranteed recipe for explosive vials is also randomly placed, meaning you could potentially never find enough money to buy it. Then there are the issues of getting the right materials for it, which I found to be abundant, but again - it's random. But the second problem is a far bigger one - which is that a random consumable item should not lock you out of 2 of the games endings. That's absurd. I don't know any other game that does that with something so wholly unremarkable. "The game is meant to be replayed multiple times, you don't need to access all of the endings in one playthrough." That's entirely fair, and I appreciate that the game has a lot of replayability. The explosive vials can still fuck off though. "You used an exploit/cheat to beat the game!" Yep! But I still got 2 endings legitimately, and the only reason I cheated was to get more coverage of the game which I was softlocked out of. If I had known how unpleasant the Gauntlet area was, I wouldn't have bothered. I'd probably have tried to get the God of Ultraviolence ending instead, because that one sounds kinda fun. "You'd like it way more if you saw/did/read/looked up-" Whatever you are going to recommend, I have either done it or seen it since finishing the script. I know more about this game than I ever needed to for this video because I really wanted to give it a chance - and I gave it substantially more time and thought than I have for any other game I have looked at in several years. What you see in the video is my initial experience with the game, but following that (all throughout the editing process) I read/watched so much - and even replayed the game fully. None of it changed my mind. Yes, I know the King in Yellow is in the game. "The game just isn't for you." That's a very fair analysis. Again, like I say in the opening of the video - I know a lot of people love this game and that's okay, I don't have any issues with people that do. Having watched a lot of fan content surrounding the game I know that it is a very active and fun community who are almost entirely very lovely. But there are certain issues with the game that I can't overlook, and I would encourage even those that revere the game to be open to these criticisms too. I hope people don't just view this video as me hating the game - because there are so many aspects of it that are truly great, and I love that those parts are celebrated. Much love all

[@jtru0]

❤❤

[@Crumb_B]

You dropped this my man 👑

[@basketodone]

I think most of these are pretty fair criticisms, but I disagree with the idea that it's unfun because a new player doesn't know everything they need to know right off the bat. I consider this to be a "wiki game", something that's very common these days, especially in groups like those that enjoy Fear and Hunger. This includes a lot of other dark roguelikes, like The Binding of Isaac, Darkest Dungeon, etc, and other games like Terraria or Minecraft. At the end of the day, there's two ways to enjoy these games. You can go into them blind, spend an exorbitant amount of time failing and learning, and eventually feeling the satisfaction of doing everything right through trail and error, or; just look it up. I don't see what about Fear and Hunger's blind gameplay makes it any worse than any of these other games.

[@waltervoidbringer4491]

Using cheats and exploits, especially exploits, is 100% valid. All-Bones Jones, another content creator that is basically a celebrity in the F&H community, notoriously says that dev-tiles are canon to the Dungeons of Fear and Hunger. If the game is unfair then the player can be unfair too. Him, and a couple of other players and content creators have carried out vivisection after a vivisection to know every bone and muscle in Miro's infamous spaghetti code to break the game as much as possible

[@Shenaldrac]

Oh oh, let me shut down your criticism! Oh I have you dead to rights Painticus, you'll never criticize another beloved cult classic video game in this town again! Ahem. You only dislike it because it does things you think genuinely harm the game itself as well as being frankly unacceptable in a modern context! Bam, gottem B)

[@fearhunger3983]

Thanks for a comprehensive look at the game! A lot of the criticism is fair. Might sound a bit pretentious, but F&H1 was never really meant to be a "good" game as far as general game design consensus goes. It was an experience and experiment first and a video game second if that makes sense. With F&H2 I thought there could be potential for a "fun" game too with some of the established game design. So in that light, I always understood perfectly well why some people weren't feeling the game. If anything, I'm a bit surprised how liked F&H ended up becoming.

[@Painticus]

It says a lot about both you and the vast majority of Fear & Hunger fans that my criticisms have been met very openly and respectfully. The communities surrounding this game and the sequel are full of lovely people and I'm very happy that people have recognised that I'm still very impressed by the aspects of the game I did enjoy. Truly, the world, lore, characters, and style are all spectacular and I can't wait to see what Termina holds. Thank you for taking the time to watch the video and comment - and thank you for fostering such a great playerbase!!

[@masterzoroark6664]

In these regard- of a game being suprisingly loved by community - it's not dissimilar to works of Icepick Lodge. Their games, especially older, are rough and hard to make a point And I guess this is why people gravitate to them- they tend to force one to become media literate to enjoy, and if it sticks, it usually leaves a proper mark.

[@Aondeug]

It may sound a bit weird and this is a month late reply but the fact that the first game wasn't designed to be a "good" game is honestly what endeared me to it so much. One thing I really like in video games is a strong thematic presence, especially if it is one that the gameplay is made to bow to. This can be a very polarizing approach to games, but I find it very fascinating to analyze and experience. Basically everywhere I looked in Fear and Hunger I found more and more things that led back to the themes of the game. To the point where I was often thinking about how my experience of restarting the game a lot could be viewed with the themes and worldbuilding in mind. The more I learned about the game and how to actually play it through repetition and experimentation with often fatal results, the more things like the Hall of the New Gods or Enki's story really began to sit with me. It's an uncompromisingly cohesive experience and that's just neat. Hearing that Termina was more approachable is somewhat why it's taken me so long to start on it. Since starting on it I'm liking a lot. It's gotten me restarting the game a lot just to examine the other characters and to see what patterns I can unravel with the time chunks. And I'm really loving that the expansions to the lore and the soundscape and art is wonderful. But hearing that the game wasn't as unrelentingly hostile to the player did give me a bit of pause. I suppose because I'm a weird art person who likes reading and writing essays at heart and Fear and Hunger's hostility to the player definitely gave me that. Thankfully Termina is very ripe for that sort of thing itself, though I do think that there is something very special about the first game. It's not for everyone. I'd suggest most people start with Termina. But the first game just hits a certain way for precisely the very reasons I wouldn't recommend it over its sequel. Also, it's a bit tangential so I am not sure where to put it in this though it feels relevant. But part of my experience with the first game is very colored by my fondness for traditional roguelikes. Wherein a lot of the progress you make in the games isn't just the bigger numbers or getting closer to the end of the game, it is in the accumulation of knowledge even when you lose. It's the playing fast and loose with risk and reward and being fine with your experiments failing because you can always try again.

[@johnskelington]

​@Painticus Termina has you play a game that involves murdering innocents to save yourself. Saw-like game confirmed?

[@ElskaFox]

@@Painticus, I really hope you like Termina!! It's a very different vibe from the 1st Funger and much more enjoyable, IMO. Best of luck!!

[@arthurjeannin3357]

About the coin flips: I did check the game's files when I was playing because it seemed very low to me too - you can open it in RPG Maker and see every single part of the code. The coin flip event really is a 50/50 chance! Failing 14 times in a row certainly is TERRIBLE luck though haha

[@Painticus]

oh god

[@necrosadotor]

did u guys use the lucky coin then? because many people don't know to use it, which is strange because its usage is explained literally in the beginning of the game

[@Painticus]

I believe I use it in the video

[@necrosadotor]

it's where you press shift when coin flipping. it'd be insanely bad luck to get 15 times wrong even then, but ofc that's also possible@@Painticus

[@obazu3727]

Lot of games actually have hidden "pity" systems to keep the players from getting these kinds of unlucky roll sequences. Interesting Firaxis made a game mode for X-com 2, that didn't have these systems turned on(in other words a game mode, where the rng was actually working exactly as stated) and they ended up getting ton of complaints from players, who thought the game was cheating against them.

[@s.l.r.9407]

"With this combination of fears, if we find a gnome we're fucked" 💀

[@carriebrute3627]

Honestly is super wholesome to see that the game about murdering kids , exposed genitalia and very explicit mental and physical abuse has one of the most wholesome and respectful communities seeing everyone being nice with this persons opinions and thoughts on a game they love despite this person saying they didn’t liked it is very cool

[@Killysunt]

This game really is one that I just enjoy watching others suffer playing rather than playing it myself lmao

[@Painticus]

That seems to be what a lot of people feel, and I understand that completely! I've since watched other people playing it and it's more interesting than doing it yourself for sure

[@planterion7969]

Yeah that's me too, I got it after watching a few videos about it and tried it. After three hours I was so annoyed by the gameplay that I put the game down and went back to watching videos XD

[@excitedcat9517]

Absolutely, My man 👏👏👏

[@josedorsaith5261]

My GF is the same way with any horror game. Turned out to be a great date-night; sitting on the couch, me with the controller

[@ghoulishshift]

The gameplay takes a while to click since it's all based on knowledge. The more you know the more fun it gets

[@firetube8288]

To be fair, if you try to make love to the child the goddess in question literally kills you with an instant game over

[@ghostlyblue5735]

That's good

[@polo3292]

She is not the god of famous KZbinrs anyways

[@chrisossu2070]

It's more surprising that Fear & Hunger blew up as much as it did, considering it was intentionally built to be unrelentingly hostile. Like, it was built for an incredibly niche audience but somehow everyone ended up playing it. FYI, while the sequel does tone down the grosser elements of the previous game and is less luck-based, there are gameplay elements that seem to actively punish those who think their tactics in the first game will carry over. It's better to go into Termina completely fresh and learn its particular set of rules rather than draw from your experiences with the first Fear & Hunger for assistance.

[@SpecterVonBaren]

Sir, might I introduce you to a game called 'Getting Over It's?

[@anthonykarnes6804]

Two words. Pocket cat

[@mado-wh4jv]

The difficulty of the game isn't really a problem for a community. People got their interest and catch on the game learning about the characters and the worldbuilding, and when they actually want to play the game they use a guide and actually practice to play efficiently without losing the fun of it. That's why the game is popular regardless of its hostility.

[@planterion7969]

I think most of the community of this game doesn't even play it themselves much, me included. We just watch videos about it, since I think many people find the lore interesting, but I don't think nearly as many people actually enjoy playing the game.

[@mado-wh4jv]

@@planterion7969 I do, I love realistic rpgs and survival horrors, of course I use the 99 enlightened books mod, I am not expending 1 hour straight of gameplay just to find a bed so I can save the game and come back later.

[@CriticalNobody]

Seems like a game built to simulate having a killer DM who’s going to screw you over for the lols

[@yserareborn]

To be honest, that is one thing I kind of like about Fear and Hunger. It does at least invoke the feeling of playing one of those old-school ADnD games where you play through a scenario built to churn through characters.

[@thekameru6058]

From what I've read, the creator got the idea for this game whilst playing a sort of 'what would you do in this horrible situation if you were in a dungeon' idea game with his friends at school. So, you're bloody close basically. Oh yeah, and agree with Painticus - fuck them nails.

[@kal_bec]

very rare people make the correct choice of making a video 4:3 when 90% of the footage is 4:3. Good man

[@obazu3727]

Haverinen actually touched on the use of shocking content in his bachelor's thesis, on thematics of horror in video games, using his game design work on the demo of Fear & Hunger as a case study. Here's a quote from the paper, translated from Finnish to English: "During the design of the game, the question of how far to stretch the horror scenes constantly arose. Several studies referenced in this thesis have depicted the traumatizing effects of horror games and imagery, which only added weight to the question. Despite the moral choices continuously troubling the development of the game, it remains uncompromising and utilizes everything in the imagery that was originally planned." And here is a quote on the function of the shocking scenes in the game: "The game features some scenes that act as punishments for players for poor performance, for when mere death in the game does not convey enough significance to failure. In these scenes, the extreme imagery is taken beyond the game's already macabre visuals." He also has two pages long chapter on creating narrative resonance via what he calls "anti-gameplay"

[@obazu3727]

Here's a translation on what he had to say about anti-gameplay: "I believe that for horror games, the most entertaining gaming experience does not produce the sought-after reactions from players. Section 4.4.1 already discussed how, from a game mechanics perspective, horror games often put the player in a vulnerable position. Fear & Hunger aims for this by breaking several game mechanics textbook teachings with elements that do not conform to the generally accepted notions of good video game design. Within the thesis, I refer to these elements as anti-gameplay elements. Examples of such elements in Fear & Hunger include: the game does not explain any of its features. Only through trial and error can the player find a purpose for items that otherwise seem nearly useless. The game contains one-way dead ends that leave the player without the possibility to continue the game in a normal manner. The character development in the game works almost in the opposite way to traditional role-playing games, where the player's characters become stronger with each battle, whereas in Fear & Hunger, characters lose limbs and approach permanent disability with each monster encounter. Although the anti-gameplay features likely cause frustration and irritation among players at times, this is not their primary purpose; rather, they aim to reinforce narrative themes. The dungeons of fear and hunger are meant to be distressing and hopeless, where the fate of the player's characters is in the hands of higher powers. The anti-gameplay features create a contrast to ludonarrative dissonance; they create ludonarrative resonance. Game mechanics have been made unpleasant on purpose so that the player would avoid the same dangers as the game character. The purpose of the anti-gameplay elements is to make the player paranoid about every choice and to seek alternative means to avoid the dungeon's dangers. Through ludonarrative resonance, I aim to achieve higher immersion, which in turn would add to the game's frightening atmosphere." And here's what people had to say about the punishing elements in the demo: "Based on feedback from the test version, it became clear that these particular features caused considerable frustration for several players. Sudden deaths, where opponents can kill game characters with a single strike without any warning, were found to be particularly unpleasant. However, on the other hand, many players quickly learned creative ways to avoid these events. The sudden deaths reinforced positive experiences with features that helped players out of trouble. The lack of explanations for game mechanics initially caused frustration, but at the same time, it added mystery and fear of the unknown to many. The feeling of hopelessness seemed to be strongly conveyed through these anti-gameplay elements. Mastering the game mechanics also created feelings of success among players. All those who provided feedback mentioned that the anti-gameplay elements, despite their unpleasantness, were not so severe as to completely stop players from playing. Looking forward, the game's anti-gameplay features require a lot of balancing, but I believe they have a strong impact on creating the overall image of the game and help achieve the desired feelings of hopelessness. This subject area is also quite unexplored in game development, so as an experimental indie game, Fear & Hunger serves as a good platform for further research."

[@Painticus]

Thank you for this info! Definitely a good read. It reminds me a lot of the writing that is done on experimental film (which I had to go through a ton of doing my degree). I feel that F&H1, while theoretically very cool and asks a lot of important questions about the medium (much like a lot of experimental cinema does), does not translate well to a consumer experience (in the same way a lot of experimental cinema does too). This game being a thesis makes a lot of sense - and I'm sure academically it was well received. The dev is very talented and I appreciate that F&H2 seems to be a combination of F&H1's theoretical strengths & player feedback

[@VCV95]

Funger 1 is actively antagonistic to players, as are many other eastern European games. Honestly there are so many parallels between Funger and Pathologic. Pathologic HATES you as a player, and actually does almost everything in its power to screw you over, RNG involvement and not explaining things all over both games. The content is obviously troubling, but outside of actually "showing" some things, the game is about the same level as several other adult dark fantasy series, and much less horny about it on average imo. Look at Game of Thrones, Berserk, Hellsing, and even JoJo for well loved media with some insanely intense themes and graphic scenes of violence, gore, and sexual assault, and handled worse on occasion too. It can be a part of horror imo. The level of fan service or being outright sexually pleasing is part of the determination to me, and fear and hunger is pretty good about not titillating players, more grossing them way the hell out, as desired and intended. I don't disagree it's a borderline impossible subject to handle well, but Fear and Hunger could definitely handle it worse, and it's done it's job making you obsessed enough to make a 40 minute video while correctly not advocating the content in the game. It's meant to be troublesome, disturbing, and triggering, and While I agree it's not good, it's handled well and has a full right to exist alongside movies like Salo, The Human Centipede, and more media.

[@lorddervish212quinterosara6]

Damn, where do we find this thesis?@@obazu3727

[@waltervoidbringer4491]

As someone who actually loves F&H games and played through 'em to hell and back, everything here is valid. F&H1 is, at it's core, an egregiously rough game. It tells you jack shit, breaks your arms and legs, drags you to the nearest pond and throws you in there. Sink or swim. It took me 30+ hours to finish my first run, and that is ignoring all the other various times I dropped the game for one reason or another. It is not a fun game to play until you learn enough to literally cheese everything. So, how about the second game? F&H: Termina is an infinitely better game in every aspect. Miro listened to the criticism people had with the first game, which resulted in a gem. Mind you, still a rough gem but it's better than a bloodstained rock that was the first game (the bloodstains come from your skull). P.S.: There is an upcoming update for F&H: Termina which adds a fishing minigame and clowns. The rough gem will become a diamond! WOOOO!!!

[@Painticus]

Holy shit there's a fishing minigame coming to F&H2? I'm all in

[@harrisonfackrell]

The phobia mechanic doesn't actually do much. The weakness status effect (which phobias inflict when activated) make you more likely to be hit by, and take more damage from, physical attacks. However, very few attacks in the game (approximately 60 out of 300-or-so) actually qualify as physical. In fact, at least one of the phobias corresponds to *no* enemy that has physical attacks.

[@johnskelington]

Some horror games make you feel like you're trapped in a place you don't belong in. Fear & Hunger makes you feel like you're trapped in a DnD campaign with Eric Cartman as the Dungeon Master.

[@uraniumsgloriousjunkyard6194]

I absolutely love Fear & Hunger, but I respect your opinion. This game is far from being for everyone, and I can see how playing it could feel like a tedious and unfair experience. It is way more antagonistic to the player than other games that are considered hard but more fair. It is truly cruel, especially in the beginning. With that said, the brutality it shows has a deeper meaning than you think in my humble opinion. I made a bunch of videos on the strong Freudian psychological themes in the first game. And many others had explored other deeper parts of this game. Maybe you would appreciate them more as a viewer and not a player. Disconnected from the cruelty the game can inflict on you.

[@planterion7969]

Yeah, I too like this game in theory but absolutely hate the gameplay, most of it doesn't even feel difficult or unfair to me, just annoying, tedious and boring, not like a challenge but a waste of time. But the setting is interesting, so I agree that it is fun to watch videos about the game and watch others play it.

[@bancon903]

there is a way to get around the coinflip attacks the game doesnt explicitly say this but enemies will project their big attack before they actually do it like when it says "the stinger is pulsating" it means the guard will charge the next turn and if you use defend it will completely nullify the attack

[@herminy1324]

That’s just what Finland is like, don’t go to Finland.

[@RobertMatheson]

Do you know how mad you have to make this man for him not to have a party at the notion of "bug ending"

[@TKVirusman]

The point about artificial and fair difficulty literally just being a matter of opinion is so creative, original and TRUE that you are getting my sub instantly. Thank you wise gamer man!

[@ManSoloyoutube]

Fear and Hunger. That about describes by 2 emotions when i see a new paint video

[@Beeyo176]

I love FnH, but at no point did I ever think, "Painticus would LOVE this!" Absolutely doesnt feel like his lane

[@evanwojtalewicz4983]

Fear and Hunger is a game that is a whole lot more fun to watch than to play. It's a game that is carried SO hard by its lore and story. I feel that the internet's infatuation by this series is due to the fact that most people have never actually played it. They experience the story through content creators without having to go through the tedium of the game itself. I honestly wish fear and hunger was a book series instead of a game series. One thing you didn't get correct is the fear and hunger ending. It's implied that a darkness comes to the world yes but it does something that the game rarely does. Give meaning to hardship. The idea of the god of fear and hunger is that is creates hardship for the express purpose of training and molding humanity to be stronger. Funger 2 is indeed quite a lot more mature and better. Less tedium, same baller story. Top notch video as always. I look forward to more :) -TheWyvernBorn

[@woelikeme]

Its weird because I think I disagree and agree with what you said about the sexual violence. I can see how it can be much or teeter on edgy and it obviously can be a lot, but I think it does add SO much to the bleek horror of the dungeon. You yourself said that violence is so separated from our daily lives but then said the violence was enough to show the horrors of this dungeon. I think it made me just never feel safe and as a man that's not really something I've worried about much in a game or irl. This was such a unique horror for me

[@derosapigi56]

This was a great video! You brought up a lot of valid points. I’ve watched various people play this game over the years, and the vast majority who manage to get endings are those who end up using exploits to get past the unbearable RNG mechanics and time limit. I enjoy the lore behind both games, but it’s definitely not something I’d want to play for myself With the SA, I think it’s good that there are proper content warnings for both games (believe me I’ve played games that give no warning), but you do have to question when there’s any point for including it in the first place. It felt like SA was just included for shock value and I wasn’t sure how to feel about it

[@doctorrussia]

Im honestly super glad you brought up the sa stuff. Its so weird how no one really criticizes that part of the game

[@OperatorMax1993]

Man I thought I was the only one, I agree it's so weird that almost nobody didn't criticise that

[@kaibaiarrio1299]

YEAH like its one thing to reference sa/imply that sa is happening and the aftermath, but having it happen on-screen? THATS when it becomes a problem imo. Theres no good reason to actively show sa happening

[@soracool1234]

Well I think they're different camps when it comes to that. One side may not talk about it cuz they simply see it as shock value and don't look too deep into it, just like all the other grotesque stuff in the game. Another side that may actually dislike it but don't criticize or talk about it much as to not damage the overall value of the game to other people. And another side (which i stand more on), where people actually do find there to be a deeper meaning to it alongside the other depraved shit in the game. And sorry if I do a poor job at explaining what I mean but I'ma try here. Violence, greed, lust, pain, suffering, religion, and influence of gods. These are all core concepts Miro wanted to express in this game. To show a world and its inhabitants at their most depraved and warped selves. And on the topic of sex and sexual violence, a large part of why it's so prevalent is due to the influence of the old gods Sylvian, Gro-Goroth, and the mental warping aspects of the dungeon due to the god of the depths. Sylvian created life so, love, sex and fertility is everything and gro goroth is everything to do with destruction. Mix those two influences together with the dungeon and you get the pure madness we see. Most enemies ( which are predominately humans that have been changed and malformed such as the classic guards) being nude and sexually violent is because of their influence and the imperfections of man. Men, women, and even animals being able to have sex and become what we see as twisted amalgamation of a being but Sylvian considers as marriage and unity in its purest form. Bunny mask orgy rituals that people find a warped sense of peace in doing even if it ends up killing them. But to Sylvian it shows pure love and fertility. Cannibalistic plus orgy rituals people do that we know is fucked up but makes them feel invigorated and pleases Gro-Goroth because it's a pure form of destruction. And I could go farther with it but I think the point was made. I think the material shown here has a deeper meaning to it, than just "ew everything has a dick wants to grape me. This is messed up".

[@TrinSpin]

I respectfully disagree that gore, or excessive violence is so far removed from most peoples' lives that it can't be traumatic to the same degree as SA. I suggest you look into the rate of suicide (and mental illness) for first responders, particularly EMTs. While not to the same degree, doctors and technicians that work in emerge also deal with having to see horrific things near daily. And that's without even getting into survivors of assault with a deadly weapon. I'll admit I'm biased because of my own past experiences and social circle, but even despite that I still think everything should be on the table.

[@Painticus]

Oh I wasn't saying that it's less traumatic - I'm well aware that it is - I was simply saying it's less common and less normalised. I totally understand that it's still a very prominent issue in many peoples' lives

[@TrinSpin]

​@@Painticus well, after having finally played it I now have to eat my hat because A) your callout/criticism/clarification in the Sad Satan video was accurate for my knee-jerk defence B) you were right that the sexual content in the start of Funger adds absolutely nothing. Shit's like a store-brand 00s Nitroplus/Urobutcher VN; none of the artistry that leads to the gut-punch from the shock content. I was operating on faith that the internet wouldn't glaze such a punitive game for no reason. (yes, I should know better) I will still die on the hill that exposure to/trauma from gore/death is much more common than you'd expect. And that Crucible Knight Ordovis and friend was an amazingly fun boss fight specifically because of how hard they input read.

[@orza20]

The crashes seem like an accurate analogy to the tedious game mechanics. Imagine if the game actually did do that? Would people praise it for that? I doubt it, but if they somehow tied it in a way that "narratively made sense", some people would praise it

[@DBArtsCreators]

All I can say is this regarding the games' use of sexual assault and similar depraved acts - if they were cut, it would imply that there are limits to the evil & depravity of the world / that there are lines even the most evil of beings would not cross. That would degrade the themes of the game (which can largely be summarized as "the world is fucked, people are fucked, and you don't have to be the lowest of the low to do fucked things. Being good/moral in the world is hell"). Such is what I get from the game and its exploration of depraved, primal nature at least.

[@brycemoose7026]

My thoughts exactly

[@nandanthony]

kinda funny how the gods will smite you for paedophillia lmao

[@riverpubby]

to be fair he didn't necessarily imply that it should be cut entirely, just that it didn't need to be shown on screen. For example, when he got to the part about the book, he mentioned that THAT was the sort of sexual depravity he expected - and said book was implying the impregnation of corpses, which. Is pretty effing depraved. He also mentioned that people would draw their own conclusions when confronted with monsters with their "members" out. He actually made an excellent point about something like this in another video - he said something to the effect of "We have learned that 'baby shoes for sale, brand new, never worn' is far more horrifying than '(insert graphic description of the way that a baby was killed in some form of media here i dont remember what it was)' Which in my opinion having a black screen with a popup of "the monster claims your body" instead of just showing you getting SA'd by it would be not only far more tasteful but also leave the horrors to the imagination.

[@spooks3502]

Thankyou for mentioning the needless sa. I'm sick of media showing scenes like that, which are triggering for multiple people, purely in the name of shock horror. Implying these things is just as shocking, if not more so, when done correctly.

[@MDiarmeid]

Fantastic video dude, even tho i disagreed with many of the points, the presentation and how you articulate the points it is really good and comprehensible! Now idk if you would like to, but if your ever curious i think it might be worth to give F&H 2 a shot, now idk if you would like it, but given that many of the issues explained here are toned down a lot, and the exploration and combat its more rewarding, without sacrificing the tension or the sense of danger. But again only if you are curious and stuff.

[@redrighthand9571]

As someone who's loved Fear & Hunger since 2017, it's entirely justifiable to not like it. The game is actively hostile to the player, as several other people have mentioned. I don't get why people are so shocked when someone hates (or criticizes) Fear & Hunger. The game is designed to cause that.

[@mattmolloy636]

F&H Termina is probably more your speed, so much so that it's generally recommended when it comes to which game you should start with. That said, how'd you enter a room full of meat mannequins and selectively choose to sacrifice a playable character?

[@Painticus]

I kicked myself over the mannequin room after I beat the game the first time. Turns out I interacted with everything in the room OTHER than the big clone vat thing. You have to interact with it in a specific spot otherwise it doesn't work and naturally I missed it because I'm a fool. My apologies go out to Cahara's family, and I wish to pass on this message: my bad lol

[@gabriel0742]

fear and hunger is set in a location where it is possible for people to act on their desires without any consequences or intervention for their actions at all. A lot of them will decide to do horrible things because there exists terrible people in real life that go to the absolute worst extremes imaginable if they can do it with no impunity at all. If you remove the sexual violence, you aren't telling a faithful reality to that world. It's perfectly fine to not want to watch that type of content, because it doesn't have to be watched by every person on the planet. But removing it from the game entirely is just kind of ridiculous when you consider the other forms of violence that happen in the game and the circumstances around it.

[@blackbannercasual5849]

Hi, I know I’m late of 8 months circa but I couldn’t help myself from commenting, I really had to. As an avid Fear and Hunger Fan I wanted to say that I really appreciated and enjoyed the video, you bring up extremely fair points but also a few wrongs things that I’d like to correct (and also express a few opinions on the way): - The Coin Flip is actually 50/50, you are just unbelievably unlucky 😭 - As someone who has a shit ton of hours on both the games I’m really surprised how unlucky you was with the items (I did A LOT of runs and I usually had 90% of what I needed always, I don’t consider myself lucky but still makes me think) - Ragnvaldr (The Outlander) is absolutely the worst character for someone that just started the game, which trust me if you picked Cahara (The Mercenary) or D’arce (The Knight) it would have been A LOT easier - Not a tip or anything but D’arce didn’t get SAed and there are many ways one can tell this: 1) D’arce is very emotional on a certain aspect, she would have got a more psychological repercussion for sure 2) we meet her right after she got captured (since if we leave she will die, meaning that she just got overwhelmed) 3) when you make love with her she says that she’s a virgin and is completely inexperienced. Now more on the opinion part: - Sexual Violence is a really heavy topic because of how closer it is from the sea of guts and blood of gore, and I completely understand why a lot of people don’t like it in media. But I’m glad that lately we’re getting series and games like F&H that represents it and does it right: you said that it is unnecessary but imo it really isn’t, sure the game wouldn’t change much without it, but it is serves to show how evil and raw the world of Funger is, it doesn’t only kill you, it spits on you, it makes you feel less of a human and it destroys your character both physically and mentally. Is it excessive? Maybe. Is it thematically heavy and scary? Imo yes. - Funger’s most strong weapon is knowledge, trial and error is everything in this game (unless you’re a pussy like me who played the games only after seeing full walkthroughs 😗🎵) and I understand why people find this a turn off, I mean, it wastes a lot of time, but I also find it unbelievably satisfying when everything goes as planned because I know what I’m doing. Anyway since the game is a bitch with you don’t feel too bad finding ways to cheese it lol (like save scumming or searching for cheap guides). Anyway the video was great, I love how you criticized it so politely and I like your voice a lot! It took me quite a lot to write this comment and I should go to sleep now, good night and I hope you’ll enjoy (or you’ve enjoyed if you already played it) F&H2 more!

[@helloeverybody.8455]

As much as I love this game, I totally get your criticisms, particularly when it comes to the amount of chance in this game. Even I start to get peeved when my character wakes up from a killing intent five times in the cells, even when every enemy in the room has been destroyed.

[@carloshiguerey6342]

One interesting aspect of games is how they can make us feel from what is shown to us. F&H makes sure to make you feel disgust, anger, fear and oppression, which I find really interesting, because these are feeling you have commonly in your life; from colleagues, from "friends", from relatives or perfect strangers. Of course you may think why'd anyone want to have those feelings? The thing is that you don't want to, but to let them be helps to accept them and diggest that they exist inside of you, in quality of a normal human being. Fear and hunger is a playground for the lowest of the human psyche itself, I could even say it's cathartic and that's the reason it's so popular: We all have traumas, we all have hurts, we all feel disrespected and used and keep it unresolved; most people want to help their issues or persue a solution but not all of us have the courage or the idea on how to give the first step. The game isn't only about the game, it's about you and how you won't give up even though you feel it's cruel and relentless, just as the life is (too often). It's a depiction of how the human can overcome the horrors to stand for the best and for their principles, and as is for the story of the god of fear and hunger, how the duality of your fearful feral being and brilliant ideal determination will allow you to ascend and be someone better, an idol, and maybe an idol that is meant to stay.

[@JorguinTorpedo-ff5vk]

hey, I really liked your analysis including your points on Using SA. I was kind of calm with the subject thinking "ah, it's a screwed up world and it's a Finnish dark fantasy game", it's not a good reason, but a good cope I must admit. the most cohesive explanation in the game world would be the fact that sex is a form of ancient magic of the older gods, like you can learn jerk off as a form of witchcraft. Anyway, the second game has an area that touches on abuse involving children, which is done in a very well thought out way, but can still get you out of the game.

[@briancordry8165]

really glad that you brought up the point about the gratuitous sexual violence and exactly *why* it's so much more offensive. seems like the truth of that point is lost on the edgelord younger generation (which is like kinda ironic?). those parts consistently make me uncomfortable too, which i get is the point, but i feel like there's a way to imply sexual violence without ... delighting in being so graphic about it? i recently watched some anime for the first time with an extremely obsessed friend and i felt the exact same way - why is this stuff being so explicitly shown?? great vid

[@riverpubby]

Copying my reply to a different comment bc I think it's relevant here too- "He actually made an excellent point about something like this in another video - he said something to the effect of "We have learned that 'baby shoes for sale, brand new, never worn' is far more horrifying than '(insert graphic description of the way that a baby was killed in some form of media here i dont remember what it was)' Which in my opinion having a black screen with a popup of "the monster claims your body" instead of just showing you getting SA'd by it would be not only far more tasteful but also leave the horrors to the imagination."

[@travisgeorge1553]

Termina , is definitely a better experience. While there's still some sexualized themes, it's a lot more digestible. Every enemy, isn't coming at you with their junk out....well, there is the Woodsman...but he's got a whole nother thing going on there. I honestly don't even recall a single depiction of SA in it. Weird stuff involving a woman and a goat....also connected to the Woodsman btw. The horror themes are far more into body horror, violence, cultish activities, and the bizzare/unknown. Sex took a huge back seat in it. Oh, and it plays more like a game you can actually learn, instead of being RNG heavy.

[@Grayfox176]

I don't recall any explicit SA, but there is a point in the game where, depending on who you are playing as (I know that Marina and Abella both can have this happen, not sure if Karin or Olivia can), that if you rest in a specific place, you wake up to another character attempting SA on you. So, there is that. But it definitely is much tamer in comparison to what can be shown in this game.

[@spookyjones6577]

about the sexual stuff…I hope it isn’t lost on you that whatever happens to the little girl is your own doing in the game. Actually, the game actively punishes you, doesn’t reward or makes it explicitly obvious what will happen (think pocketcat) if you choose to use the girl for whatever screwed up thing is in the dungeon. It’s kind of weird, but as a woman, I actually love the inclusion of sexual themes in the game. It’s thematic with Sylvian and makes sense in the game world and I think just calling it an inclusion for shock value limits a proper analysis and appreciation for it. In the game, the monsters use their sexuality for monstrous purposes, makes sense. You can also cut off their members. A lot of fun. The worshippers for Sylvian have an orgy nonstop that they don’t actually seem to enjoy…but it heals you to participate. It is interesting to me and doesn’t seem to be there for pure shock value. I for one feel like the loss of the sexual aspects would take away from the game.

[@IAreNotaPotato]

You like the inclusion in the game of being able to have sex with a kid? Think about what you just said...

[@epicsavagebros7400]

@@IAreNotaPotatoThat is not possible in the game. If you try the game simply says no same with Moonless.

[@IAreNotaPotato]

@@epicsavagebros7400 why did you tag me in some random post I don't know what post you are referring too

[@epicsavagebros7400]

@@IAreNotaPotato It would seem you have deleted it

[@IAreNotaPotato]

@@epicsavagebros7400 then how are you responding to it? I didn't delete anything

[@JC-bv6tb]

Funger always struck me as a game that's more interesting to talk about than actually play, which is why I never touched it - and this is coming from someone who has Pathologic Classic HD as one of their favourite games of all time. Thanks for taking one for the team and going through it so I didn't have to. Great video as usual!

[@Zawamin]

Awesome video! I'm a big fan of Funger (especially 2), but it's awesome to see someone with something new to add, especially when it feels like everyones saying the same stuff about a game that's very interesting to talk about

[@cartertitan-rv3xe]

maybe im just braindead but i really dont understand how dismemberment and extreme gore is so far removed from normal life, but sa is just not. both things are real tragedies that happen to real people, but the criticism presented here just makes it seem like sa is not acceptable in this context because its uncomfortable, which i dont really get because i personally thought that the discomfort and disgust was one of the main points of the game. otherwise i agree with pretty much every other argument.

[@riverpubby]

The thing is, a good 80-90% of the population will go their entire lives without actually seeing a dead body (except maybe at a relative's funeral). On the other hand, if you walk into a room of people, chances are most of them will have experienced some form of assault. It's a lot more common. It isn't that having SA in the game is unacceptable, it's the way it's displayed. Honestly I've only seen this video and not played the game, but from what I've seen even the gore aspects are very stylized and imo not the worst thing in the world - when limbs are cut off it has a vibe very similar to when people draw the large cartoon hams with the bones sticking out. They aren't bleeding all over the place, you don't see their bones splinter or their marrow. The gore rooms are very cartoony, same with the wizard's head. If the entire game is like that, there's absolutely a valid argument for why the SA is unreasonable and out of place but the gore isn't. I mentioned in a couple other replies but they could have implied SA without showing it directly, the example I used being a black screen with the words "the monster claims your body" as an alternative He even mentions in a book that has mentions of putting the person's "seed" into the "womb" of a corpse was well done and the sort of deviancy he expected

[@necrosadotor]

i disagree about the sex parts being too much on F&H, but you have respectable points

[@harrisonfackrell]

I am very impressed that you found the cloning room, but did not make a clone for the purpose of summoning Chambara.

[@justinahmer7116]

I’m a huge fan of the game and found myself captivated by the lore wanting to know everything and devouring any and all content related to it but I gotta say this was a really fair and good video

[@thatonekarissa]

been waiting for this vid forever bc you have been talking and teasing about it FOREVER. it’s like christmas. 40 minutes?????? i’m eating good

[@pterojacktylus2475]

I really love the game, and I'm here to say there is a million reasons I can understand why someone wouldn't like it. Same with berserk, same with so many of its inspirations, theyre dark, and as much as i love them they ARE edgelordy in many senses. I have a million friends who love games I hate, and theres millions of games ive wanted people to try or love and have failed to get them into. Respect to you for having your own opinons and sharing them, and to hell with anyone who thinks the community should just be a vacuum of praise.

[@PotentiallySky]

"I'm getting an Amnesia vibe from it" as the game says 'Your dark descent is just in it's beginning steps...' is absolutely perfect

[@DarkKnight6six6]

Fear and Hunger is absolutely NOT the kind of thing everyone is going to love. You'll either fall so deep into the rabbit hole that you will never escape, or will turn back and stay away forever, and that's okay.

[@therabbithole993]

the most lovecraftian thing about this game is it can drive you insane

[@gorillahandler]

I absolutely love fear & hunger but I totally respect your take. Playing the game is honestly pulling teeth sometimes, but the atmosphere and lore are just so good that I can't help but love it. If you're just looking at the gameplay, it's really not that great and it does punish you just for trying to play it. But getting to learn about the world and what's actually going on is so goddamn interesting that it's still like a 9/10 experience for me. Keep it up dude

[@GeorgeWest-l9n]

Something small I noticed that I really dislike in 2 is the coin flip animation, you can tell mid flip which side it’s going to land, where in the first game the coin could flip again one it landed

[@dunningdunning4711]

Honestly fair criticisms. I love this game and it really resonated with me, I became obsessed with it and trudged through it to get all the endings, but I can understand why people wouldn't like it. For me, all the rng-based elements tied in heavily to the themes of the game and created a vision that paralleled my own struggles with mental health. Trying and failing and trying again until you succeed while at the mercy of a random, bleak environment was a really cathartic experience and I believe Funger is actually a lot more hopeful than it lets on. But with all the praise I can heap on the game, I agree 100% about the explicit SA. It feels cheap, tasteless and edgy - and, like you said, needless, when it is already heavily implied.

[@thedigiseviper1330]

I love Fear & Hunger. I also love your videos. I understand why you wouldn't end up liking it, your reasons are valid, and the game is by no means perfect. Personally, I enjoyed how unapologetic it was and how fathomless and unknowable it felt. But from the perspective of one of the people who was excitedly waiting for this video after recommending it to you, I did not come away disappointed, and I really enjoyed the video even though there are points I disagree with. I'm glad you gave it a fair shot, and even more glad that you didn't let the overwhelming fan praise influence your opinions on it. All that is to say, its a shame there needed to be such a heavy disclaimer ahead of an opinion piece at all. You shouldn't be ashamed of what you've made here, because it's yours and it's genuine. Well done on the video, and I look forward to seeing what you do next.

[@maxobyrne1474]

I was worried when you said “little pre-video ramble” but then I saw the timestamp, thank god

[@DivinityIncarnate000]

I deeply love fear and hunger. But, it isn’t for everyone. That’s half of the appeal. I’m glad to have watched this and can’t even disagree with most things here. Still, fear and hunger is and will always be one of my favorite games

[@dankomancer]

yeah couldn't tell you how many times I've alt+F4'd this game

[@kalamaroe7137]

It's cliché to say but never before have I seen a statement more (admittedly) true yet offensive than calling Crow Mauler, "Dollar Store Pyramid Head."

[@Painticus]

Hey, its a very well spent dollar. Crow Mauler is cool!

[@kalamaroe7137]

@@Painticus True! Shame none of the characters have any seeds or live worms on hand. (Good video btw.)

[@Sapphireeyes104]

I really like parts of this game. To the point where I can tolerate the parts of the game that I don't like. The more knowledge you get in this game the more of a chance you have to get through it, and there's a feeling of real accomplishment when you figure out how to deal with something in the game without being crippled from it. I like the characters, at least in design. I like the creepy bleak-ass world, I even like some of the monster designs. Moonless is awesome, and Crow Mauler, dick that he might be, also has a pretty cool design, just to name a couple. I like the music, with the music of Mahabre being oddly soothing and one of my favorites. It was a lot of fun for me experimenting with different tactics and approaches. Teaching the little girl Combustion (a completely free, fairly powerful fire spell) was probably my favorite, turning her from this tiny defenseless thing to a threat on par with some of the enemies. Even better if you curse a dagger you can find for her too. Just little stuff like that. Honestly, thinking back, I think I might like listening to people talk about the world, characters and trivia more than actually playing the game itself. I just think it's a cool story. All that said, I can totally understand why you wouldn't like this game. Hell, it's hard to understand why I like it. A lot of it IS straight up bullshit, and I don't think there even is a good ending, at least without playing on higher difficulties, even then whether they're "good" endings is up for debate. I like how that fits into the oppressive narrative and atmosphere of the game, but I could see that being another thing to turn people away. I haven't played Termina yet, mostly due to life already being stressful enough at the moment and I've been playing games for escapism purposes, but I hear it's better about things like SA and limb penalties. Even if I liked the game, it was still nice listening to someone else talk about it, even if they didn't like it like I did. 'S all good. If you try Termina, I hope you like that one ^^

[@bladedfanfighter]

26:13 a lady in the neighbouring apartment just fell off something and, like, fuckin wilhelm screamed right during this transition and I fully thought it was part of the video for a minute (she's fine they're just rowdy)

[@Painticus]

She was a paid actor

[@bladedfanfighter]

lol

[@thatorangeguy3646]

my only criticism of your points is that you need a good reason to use grim aspects that are present in real life. as this can just be applied to anything. you could say doom is disgusting because your dad got mulched in a car crash, killing dogs is horrible because your beloved pet died etc. these are terrible things, and they definitely vary in both intensity and frequency however i dont think that should bar them from being used "without a very good reason" as said reason will be entirely subjective. for example is it valid having a character who is a victim of sexual assault? is it valid having a character who is a victim of horrific injury? id argue the answer should always be yes in media, while anyone can and probably should find it disturbing or distasteful, its inclusion should not need to fit into anyone but the authors view of if it belongs. personally, i feel Fear and Hunger definitely uses sex as a matter of context, with things like love cults and being able to "marry". its used as a way to convey the perversion of love and the bond of marriage in a bleak setting,this is not to say it doesn't use it for shock value at all but i feel like writing it off as ALL there to go "wow so edgy" is just a strawman.

[@Painticus]

I should have phrased my point differently - I'm not saying things _can't_ use grim material, they just have to use it carefully on a case by case basis if they want it to be effective. Authors are free to include whatever they like in their work - and audiences are free to criticise their work too.

[@thatorangeguy3646]

fair enough. i found it very effective. the pleasure cults eating each other while having sex paints this horrid scene of hedonism similar to psychopaths finding gratification in their cruelty. most things allude to such dark topics but fear and hunger just shows you with no fanfare or warning, its a cruel and disgusting place within that dungeon and sudden acts of violence of any kind happen frequently.@cus

[@icedcoffee5755]

I know this is 8 months later, but one of Elden ring’s bosses (malenia) does in fact break fromsofts own rules; she can essentially “unstagger” herself after being staggered with a heavy weapon, which not even crucible knights can do.

[@Hexie094]

I love fear and hunger, it's not for everyone and that's a great thing, It shows us games can successes while being niche, you may have a favorite dish but people would turn their nose up at it, I don't expect you to cook your favorite food differently to better suit the pallet of everyone. The combat is fun and really rewards knowledge, its not like most RPGS where you get the god killer sword or brain explosion spell and just spam those while chugging healing items, and the lore is some of the most interesting and deep things I've seen from gaming in a while. and the bleak oppressive atmosphere is peak though I do agree with some stuff, mainly the lack of saves, funger is a series of knowledge checks, you can do the game hitless and more realistically saveless if you know everything like fight timings (every coin flip attack can be guarded), im fine with how little the game tells you, you need to either read NPC dialogue or read the books you pick up (Alchemillia vol. 1/2/3 tells you what herbs do and things like that) but the steep punishment for failing a knowledge check and limited saves is a nasty combo, the game is best played experiencing it as blind as possible but using some beginner/spoiler free guilds. And the SA is eh, there is an argument that like gore it is also used to show brutality and blah blah but the scenes in the game really add next to nothing, the dev proved this by being a good boy and only putting 1 SA scene in funger 2 (and one very vague one the community can't even agree if it is a SA scene or not). The monster nudity is good tho as it makes the player feel uneasy and showing love goes with the eldritch s3x god thing. (also it's not even implied d'arce is SA'ed, she's just attacked while fully armored, no lines imply it was more then that or anything in the environment) Also small point but its an RPGmaker game so very easy to break open, variable 0014 coin_flip is just an operation that calls for a number between 1 and 2, the flips are not rigged, true randomness can feel sucky especially when so many games use pseudo-rng to pad the numbers for better odds

[@buttercupbarbs4283]

Joke at 12:37 is REALLY funny. Subscribing

[@corbynlarsson9279]

I love fear and hunger, played through the entire game and got all the endings, through watching youtube

[@TheMonk3613]

Icecrown theme fits Fear and Hunger well. I haven't realized this until I saw this video.

[@tanjiorno_kamadovvana]

Something I noticed about the game is that it seems to sorta favor one option for a bit before it switches. I just tried to stick to the option that worked twice in a row until it failed twice in a row Which Is probably the fault of the engine being unable to produce true randomness

[@mfkrwill]

"the green realm" bit got me every time

[@alphamale7388]

Thank you for articulating what I couldn't to some friends (they raised the points you did in your video about dismemberment but), about my discomfort with the amount of SA and how it is presented; I feel like the developer took feedback and refine the game, toning down the SA and improving mechanics until Fear and Hunger Termina was presented to the world. This comes from someone who didn't play this game and couldn't finish Berserk either due to the gratuitous amount of SA.

[@VervainVanity]

I love fear and hunger. Love love it. And I actually agree with you on a lot of these points. I especially agree with you about the coin flip mechanics there are too many of them and they aren't much fun. If you ever get the inclination to play the sequel I would be interested to know your thoughts on it too because this was very interesting.

[@sibel9272]

1:38 You don't fuck with no Yume Nikki, no LISA no NOTHING?! (I just wanted to do that meme)

[@PaganPilot]

imho, you dont have to like something and dont have to explain why, just as another person can like it turn and not explain why. Some of us like edgy while others dont n vice versa and thats fine.

[@BodaciousCarmichael]

I feel like if you are inquired why you find something "edgy" enjoyable, you kind of have to. Especially if it's SA and gore.

[@BodaciousCarmichael]

I mean those are pretty serious red flags. We aren't talking about fucking slendytubbies you know.

[@hiide0us123]

​@@BodaciousCarmichaelWdym red flags? Do we have to explain every time we like a campy slasher movie or (fake) gore shlock?

[@LoKri00]

Im gonna be honest, i love to finally hear some genuine critique of this game. I like it, sure, but its undeniably flawed. Its the kind of game that could only come from a solo dev just making a game to make people feel like a background character in berserk. Warts and all, its facinating and unique, both from a game perspective but also from a psychology of a game developer perspective

[@thegreatgoatking.kingofall4001]

Oh boy, with a runtime like this and a subject such as fear and hunger? This comments section is gonna be a bit spicy once the time comes. Personally I have no horse in the game, I'm just here to watch Paint talk about stuff. Though with any subject as personal as horror and themes like SA, I don't think there's every such a thing as a relaxed conversation.

[@polarpickles8035]

awesome video, subbed. excited to see your opinion on termina if you ever decide to make something about it !

[@tboyjaydee]

"what is November if not the now of the past?" so true king so off

[@Kapibar]

I just like feeling like a god after doing simplest of things, in spite of the game doing everything in its power to stop me. Cool stuff. It kinda reminds me of Gothic games, except in those you only had to fight against horrible controls and random bugs, lol. Also the atmosphere is amazing, even if sometimes it all goes so over the top it's just funny.

[@DemuDesu]

Finally a fair and accurate review of the game, rather than pretentious ones which just try to make us hop on the bandwagon. There are other hard RPGs, especially in roguelike genre, but good/popular ones have very fair difficulty where you can get out of tough spots if you're smart enough. People who love F&H should try roguelikes, then they'll realize F&H isn't that great. RNG heavy mechanics is never fun even if there is an exploit unless you enjoy gambling (and/or shock r@pe porn).

[@OperatorMax1993]

Yeah, there's other challenging RPGs like Battle Brothers and Stoneshard. I did play around with them and even though I faced a lot of unfair moments (and maybe it could be attributed to the fact that I'm not a skilled tactician or whatever). it still feels more fair (and thankfully doesn't include SA stuff) and possible to get out of bad situations

[@wren5685]

I think the fear and hunger & F.A.T.A.L creators would be friends.

[@Precisionetica]

I’m not a fan of it either, but the fact that he named the game, fear & hunger, and sold millions of copies is the ultimate irony. Most of you ( independent game developers included) will never do anything in life because you don’t possess the fear and hunger to win.

[@8saiharamasukoi]

man thats kind of edgy

[@insertgoodchannelnamehere]

People like it because they play it for 20 minutes, say "wow, this sure is hard!" and then watch a youtube video about how the game is good.

[@hugoj.r.8684]

Te quiero paintivus, desde México te mando todo mi apoyo, eres un grande

[@therabbithole993]

the second one corrects most the issues you had with the first one its still unfair but at least you can save safely

[@kellytamia9152]

Dollar store pyramidhead is crazy 😭

[@blackleon1708]

I love videos about fh, it has very intriguing setting and lore. I don't even try to play it, I just know I would hate that type of gameplay. It's not for everyone, and it's okay to admit.

[@StanTxc]

I really enjoyed watching the games Shut in, House, Yippie Psycho, Count Lucanor and Ive watched manlybadasshero's 6 episodes of The Last Door(sorry if the titles of the games are not correct). I have realised that even if i dont enjoy reading anything other than webnovels or a certain type of light novels i may enjoy Lovecrafts works. I saw your channel and your interest in Lovecraft so id appreciate it if you can tell me where to start, what to read, i dont know anything about him and havent read anything, just recommend me where to start. Thank you!

[@computersocsci]

39:47 Ah, that's me! Thanks for a great video. I hate this game, but I love hearing your thoughts about it.

[@Tracy_LLC]

I experienced trauma as a child from a pervert, and just like everyone that virtue signals on behalf of other people, there is no reason for it, that's what the warning from Steam and the beginning of the game is for, the sexually imagery is used for horror and only horror, and I feel it's thematically appropriate, I know you were just trying to be considerate, the gross nudity helps make the game as scary as it is.

[@johnskelington]

Here's the problem, the presentation falls completely flat. It looks childish more than anything.

[@mertkorkmaz1669]

I found most of your critisism valid especially the save system. But you can completly avoid coin flip attacks by blocking. Most coin flip attacks are not random and in fact happen at exact turns. Pressing defend on your main character at that turn completly negates the coin flip attack. I found it similar in a way that you have to learn attack patterns in souls games. There are signs for this usualy at the text on top of screen. If i am not remembering it wrong for the basic big junk guard always does a coin flip attack at second turn and after that it just does nornal things two turns then coin attack again. Maybe this info can make the game more enjoyable for you. Also your characters aged because you let the ghost on the mines touch them if they do that three times its death and aging effect is permanent.

[@allthatisandeverwas]

I’m glad you made this video, because I’ve been fascinated by this series’ lore and story concepts from the outside, but had reservations about the sexual assault content and what sounded like a lot of tedium (that can often lead to more sexual assault content). You made excellent points about how it has to have a greater narrative purpose, and the game just doesn’t seem to really give it that. I think a lot of the defense of this game’s difficulty comes from people who didn’t actually go in blind but rather followed guides from the plethora of sources that have cropped up over the last year or so. You did the right thing by eschewing that to give a more honest perspective of what the game would be like for a casual player. Curious to see what you think of Termina, because that one does seem to be the superior game of the two. If it does turn out to be as big of an improvement as others have stated, I’ll definitely give it a shot.

[@chrisdiokno5600]

The worldbuilding is alsp honestly pretty good

[@AkumaKiraDev]

I agree with this review. I really like this game and it's sequel, but them being rpg maker games I started cheating when it got too frustrating. It's not the optimal way to play but it was the way I could "enjoy" it.

[@AkumaKiraDev]

Oh and regarding the naughty elements, I feel the same as them being in Beserk. It's shocking, but it also doesn't make the content better. I think things could always be implied rather than shown. And they are often not used to say anything other than evil is evil.

[@Painticus]

"They are often not used to say anything other than evil is evil" is an excellent way of putting it. I feel that things like this are often a crutch for people who don't have the confidence to build their world in more subtle ways. I'm sure we'll look back on stuff like that in the same way we do for 70s/80s US films that gave their villains Russian accents simply to make sure people know who the bad guys were. Also, hello Akuma Kira!

[@limbobilbo8743]

I have a big personal disdain for the genre of “games that are made intentionally to be difficult to play” Fear and Hunger is one of the things that fits into that. I tried it once for like an hour and gave up. I can appreciate it but I just never see those games as appealing.

[@lbobby6116]

Thank god this game is getting the criticism it deserves. Genuinely unfun gameplay wise, cool lore and decent story, but overall agonizing to play and tacky in it's shock.

[@KaiserV-2]

I'm just here for the tasty lore of the game. Doubt I'll ever play it, but if a game has a good story in all in for it no matter how bad or good the gameplay is. Even then the game looks fun.

[@TheRabbitPoet]

2:12 the last door icon spotted!

[@MeltMasterFresh]

Good review! No hate. Its a game you want to play until you are playing it 😁

[@sadfaffsafd6153]

f&h seems like pathologic in the sense that its a game that's far more enjoyable/interesting to talk about then it is actually play

[@oscarfowwilde]

Enjoy this video but theres a few points I noticed as someone with insane knowledge of the game! 1) the game has a (yea, rng) book called anathomia that will tell you what status effects are 2) i agree, and so does the creator in retrospect, that the sa is a bit much. however, it is thrre because of the god of the depths; he distorts people into primal animals, which is why the forms are the way they are and the dungeon is distorted-constantly changing and all they want to do is murder and reproduce. (ps darce isnt the only one implied to have been sa’d, cahara was too. dev also heavily toned down on this in the sequel) 3) the ghost miner uses ruin, which turns your character old like you saw. if it happens to you three times, youll die of a heart attack. Sorry if this seems passive aggressive? im really not trying to be like that.