The Computer Chronicles: Software Piracy (2/1/1985)

(Re-uploaded due to no sound)
Meet teenage software pirates, computer lawyers and the battle over software ownership.
Guests: Mark Pump, Alpha Logic; Smith McKeithen, Activision; Frankie Mouse, Hacker; Neil Smith, Software Publish Assoc; John Draper (Captain Crunch); Gary Kildall, DRI
Products/Demos: Locksmith, Cap'n Software, Easy Writer, MacWare

[@lucius1976]

School back then was a paradise for trading the newest pirated software (mostly games). Good times. You actually liked to go to school each day.

[@staffoffice]

I used this is the 80's for pirating software on the Apple //e it was even better when you had a friend who worked at a software store. The good old days...

[@thehouseofhoops]

Don't copy that floppy ya sloppy jalopy!

[@ed7590]

I think one thing all these people missed is that there was never any evidence that if people stopped pirating software the price would come down. They all said this is why it's so expensive, but if everyone bought their copy who's to say the software companies wouldn't just harvest it all up and become more profitable?

[@MrBronsonNY]

Gary Kildall is a genuine jedi.

[@reeseyme9613]

+carlos carrion bill gates is the billionair darth vader that leeches garys success at the beginning, legally

Obi-wan, to be more precise.

[@BAZFANSHOTHITSClassicTunes]

Apple prices are still in the eighties.

[@cubematrixstudio7605]

In 1996 I worked for a well known videogame production company in SoCal, they had 30 PCs, and one copy of windows, one copy of 3ds Studio and one copy of Photoshop... hmmm

[@Applecompuser]

Can ya say the name?

[@rustynail6819]

There is no code of honor in the cloning business. The only thing we did was NEVER sell it.

[@Stinger2578]

It was interesting to hear a sentence with mention of 'one of largest pirate groups in the bay area' where one of the largest torrent sites today contains some of those key words in its name.

[@icemachine79]

We used to have a store here that "rented" out software for a week at a time. The fine print on the contract said you weren't allowed to keep it installed or copy it after your rental period was up, but of course nobody did that. It was a pain when CD-ROMs came out, but that changed once you found a friend with a burner. The store shut down in the early 2000s when the internet made it easy to pirate software, but despite legal challenges they stayed open for about 20 years.

[@Losttouchjs]

Putting these guys together next to each other considering the circumstances, I thought I would at least see one fight : /

[@saluk7419]

Almost 30 years later and still pretty relevant. The more things change...

[@SaccoBelmonte]

One of the most interesting episodes from CC. :D Love Captain Crunch!

[@mariocardabollo3631]

Thanks to piracy people buy computers and as for games, if the game really deserves it, a lot of people will eventually buy the game... once the price is about fair.

[@bliglum]

Developers saying that piracy is to blame for their poor sales has always been a BS excuse. Everyone always wants to point the finger, look for a scapegoat, etc... A good example would be Grand Theft Auto V. A pirated version was leaked and available weeks before it's initial release on flashmodded Xbox 360's and PS3's. And yet, it still made nearly a billion in sales in it's first 24hrs. Readily availabe pirated copies did nothing to stop it from selling absolutely gangbusters. It's currently sold over 60 million copies! Bottom line, make a good product, people will buy it.

[@EngAlperDemir]

Definitely not watching this using a pirated copy of Windows...

[@roachtoasties]

Of course, all the software they're talking about back then (1985) that illegal copies are being made, you couldn't even give away today. :\

[@chell_1.]

700 dollars for a freaking spreadsheet, and now we can use google sheets for free

[@DanVanDam]

To think of the miles we ran to finally walk smoothly huh.

[@rustynail6819]

I used this on my Apple //e all the time! This and Echo were great utils. Had a friend who worked at a software store in the 80's and he would let us borrow all the software we wanted and we would copy it! Guy from Activision was butt hurt over Lock Smith LOL!!

[@therealAZLN]

You know, while I don’t pirate software, I can see it being justified in the case of abandonware. If the IP holder no longer wishes to sell a product & lets it go, are they really a victim if users of said software freely distribute it among themselves? Especially if no money is involved.

[@DanVanDam]

Abandonware isn't really a legit thing, it was even introduced back in the day even when a product was fresh still on the market, or if the product is still being sold across Steam, GOG, etc etc. Now if it was legitimate Freeware, announced by every Dick and Sally mentioning "oh yeah I worked on that, we have no intentions of renewing any copy writes, IP, or what have you, feel free to download it!" Otherwise its still just stealing the software/games. In trade by default you give something to get something. Like whenever I buy pc games on ebay, I bought a copy of such and such from so and so. Someone got some extra money in their pocket and i gained something I can preserve. While you already know that, a lot of the sites that do abandonware swear up and down they are preserving history. Preserving something is to have value in it, I see people download whole sets of Dos games, and just make fun of them the whole time. I can understand if someone uses the site to try a game, or to get a digital copy of something that might be very hard to pull off of a floppy drive or whatever. That makes sense.

[@UncleKennysPlace]

"It takes from 1,500 to 2,000 hours to create a piece of quality software ..." Every company on earth wishes that was still true.

[@theedrstrangelove]

I have to laugh at this. Without exception, every software, hardware, technology billionaire got their start copying software! Don't copy that floppy!

[@JS-wp4gs]

No they didn't. Stop spreading nonsense

[@H76Pro]

All they said is still relevant now!! Very interesting and informative! I hope Frankie didn't go to jail!

[@Robert_Presto]

I remember "Copy 2 PC"on a floppy disk back in 1986 !

[@oldtwins]

Where is Frankie Mouse today ? Step forward and tell us where you are.

[@chukchee]

He has turned into a mouse...

[@gmodderr]

Has HP ever changed it's logo? It looks almost identical in 1985 as in 2015

[@DanVanDam]

this episode was pretty good. both sides spoke briefly of the morals of piracy. It is interesting of how yesterday and today are the same in set for this.

[@CaptchaNeon]

There's not a program in the world worth $500. I don't give a damn how many people you're paying. I imagine that they made a deal with "Frankie Mouse" so that he wouldn't be criminally charged in order for him to go on the show. Anyone know whatever happened to him?

[@APCLZ]

i died when they introduced Frankie Mouse xD

[@allenwaddell556]

I find it very interesting that some of the very same people who whined about software piracy are the same ones who now want to hire an actor once then use their image without royalties in perpetuity. Apparently it's only a problem when it's done to you and not when you do it to someone else.

[@marshallgraphic]

Now there is a solution with subscription-based software, but it still has not done enough to help with the high costs of software.

[@BryonLape]

Locksmith sure looks familiar. I'm betting I had friends who had copies for their Apple.

[@dachanist]

It's a shame Gary didn't take to opportunity to joke about being overly litigious and greedy about software IP. He could easily have reminded the Activision guy that he invented the first OS and was IBM's first choice but blew it on over pricing and a late deal. If they are pirating your work, you're doing it right man.

[@ZagnutBar]

Yes let's use the recording industry as the standard for why piracy isn't a problem!

[@wildone106]

22:02 is Franky out of jail yet?

[@geofftottenperthcoys9944]

Ah the old days, so many copies of copies!

[@TheChodax]

Set the bits free!

[@dsh20091]

Having recently filed our taxes, it was especially funny/interesting to hear them say that the IRS expected to start taking e-filed taxes -- possibly on floppy disk in the next five years. That was about the only part of this video that's out dated. Just about every view of piracy on both sides is still the same in 2020.

[@zentura88]

Software still ain't dead yet despite "piracy"...

[@sologals361]

2014 and Piracy is still uncontrolled.

[@qwiksquirrel]

MrMikehunt87 It's not about greed. As Gabe Newell so rightly pointed out: "Piracy is almost always a service problem and not a pricing problem"

[@qwiksquirrel]

MrMikehunt87 I'm sure you know much more about this than Gabe Newell, who just happens to disagree with you. But what does he know. He's only one of the absolute authorities on the subject, with shit-tons of cash on the line and a few decades of industry experience.

[@qwiksquirrel]

Actually you said it is a main reason, which I pointed out is in direct contradiction to ACTUAL EXPERTS. You may have all the opinions you wish. But when they are plain wrong, they are worthless. And an rational man is always ready to change his opinion, when it is not correct.

[@qwiksquirrel]

Sure thing buddy. Just keep pretending that you know more about this than the actual experts who have spent decades figuring this shit out and in the case of Newell, stand to loose shit-loads of money if he is wrong (as it is among the things their business model is based on). Fuck actual facts when we have your glorious opinion.

[@Ace1000ks19751982]

It is more difficult to pirate software, because a lot of software is moving towards cloud computing.

[@jonp4846]

Anyone remember half tracking on Apple disks?

[@sologals361]

I dont think it takes thousands of hours to programme Dizzy after Dizzy after Dizzy.

[@billkillernic]

The pirate looks exactly like Steward xD

[@pastuh]

Similar television series in 2017 ?

[@SweetBearCub]

I think the biggest reason that such a series might not work today is that technology moves from one thing to another so fast that by the time you researched and produced a show (add extra time for guests), it would be outdated.

[@kevinjhonson5925]

I remember copying the first need for speed 55 floppy disks.

[@psyience3213]

The reality of pirating is that most people that can buy it, do, and the people who couldn’t ir wouldn’t otherwise buy it get a copy

[@DanVanDam]

However a lot justify bootlegging because they want to. As apposed to just paying 5 bucks for something that would not put them out. Then watch them spending 15 bucks on a BK combo meal. The wrongs do not justify the means in most cases. If you can support a company just do so, and pass it forward. If someone can not afford a game, just grab the demo, and play it a ton until the game goes cheap enough to afford it, or find something legitimately free(not stolen). ;)

[@psyience3213]

@@DanVanDam that’s what I’m saying though, that’s basically how it is. Most gamers are more than happy to support their favorite game developers and pay the price for the game. I’m saying that the people who end up pirating the software are typically people who wouldn’t buy the software otherwise. The reality of software piracy is that developers really don’t lose much money at all. Plus there are benefits to buying it like updates, patches, support, the box art, guides etc.. And there are a lot of downsides to pirating like broken software, viruses, it usually requires more know how than the average user… It’s a good thing that software piracy wasn’t as big of a deal if they thought it would be. Just look at tears of the kingdom. It was hacked and passed around before launch and they still sold 10 million copies already. People are buying it, not pirating it.

[@okaro6595]

Before 1990 on Finland you had a right to copy software for personal use.

[@DanVanDam]

This was always a thing even in the states, just a lot of companies were not clear on that ideal over all. People often backed up their games, other times did not realize they could/cared as much.

[@BAZFANSHOTHITSClassicTunes]

I bet that kid got arrested on the way out

[@YorHighness]

The good old Securerom Days.

[@johneygd]

Whaaaoooh, you telling me that even in the mid-80's there were allready hackers to crack games and share it on their websites with thousands of other users,if they dit had a modem,that's just blow my mind concidering the WWW internet was 10 years away from that time,also there was no GUI os system yet ,whoooaah those peoples really were in the space age because these day's it's so common now. But Atari at the other hand used cartrides albeit for their game console to prevent this.

[@tobasuowari5898]

Even cartridges were not an effective means of prevention. Atari is one thing, but a better example would be, well, Atari...and Nintendo, when Atari started Tengen and releasing unlicensed NES games. Same method could be used for piracy, although there are easier ways of bypassing the 10NES.

[@kewkabe]

FRANKIE MOUSE IS MASTER PIRATE

[@zobook]

Good luck getting a original copy in Latin America back in those days, not to mention use that "warranty" the guy mentioned.

[@comments2840]

Software was such a funny topic then, from today's perspective.

[@Tooxcade]

funny "if statement" code 4:10

[@judmcc]

Incorrect use of "zero-sum game".

[@TheChodax]

Yep, he's deliberately doing it as well.

[@wildone106]

15:15 omg I want Klondike 2000!!!!!!

[@rickonami]

23:54 He's right about that....Till today the problem still exists.

[@moow950]

Ayayeh....living the pirate 🏴‍☠️ way 😁 Those were the good ole days ... remember the Sony root kit ? 😉

[@inf3321]

Software piracy dates back to the beginning of software. This is still a problem today. 2100, and piracy still occurs every day. Time does not heal, makes it worse.

[@Kalumbatsch]

InfinityPlusOne "Software piracy" is a propaganda bullshit term. Comparing sharing information with hijacking ships is laughable.

[@oldtwinsna8347]

Much less of an issue today with subscription models that simply won't continue to work without a valid credential login. Sure, some have gone elaborate lengths to create a man in the middle solution, complete with full spyware to hijack your computer along with it.

[@neverwin2518]

14:50 I heard "quiet a bitch"

[@Kaynos]

Wow Activision in 1985.

[@arranmc182]

Then GNU & Linux came along and changed this whole mindset lol

[@johndonovan7018]

kildall is at least honest. it is about control! it always was! he says it right off the bat.

[@mostlypeacefulrowan8747]

Lol sending in a floppy disk = electronic tax filing!

[@junkyardwulf2874]

"If more people buy it, it will be much cheaper" Haha what a load of crap, I hope no one fell for that. Businesses don't work like that. If more people bought it, it would be seen as confirmation that the product was worth that much to the business.

[@DanVanDam]

Actually that is partially true, and here it why. If a ton of units sell: usually that means everyone roughly has one. Over time the company sees success, will try to cut costs, improve of fuck-ups at the factory, or do a smaller version of something for the cheapasses. Or those who can not afford it. If there is no one else to sell to, software wise here, it will get deeper discounts. If the game sucks, then sure, that deep discount just happens. That rule for thumb for businesses is more of a thought for produce, food, gas, beer, whatever that is a item that can be replenished. If sales slow down, because everyone bought one model of the Switch, and aside from getting a extra if it breaks down. How much more sales would that company see? It is not a scam term if it actually makes sense. If you bought a PS2 at the time, and the thing worked flawlessly. Would you Not buy another? This applies to multi-million dollar margin. Aside from the software sales. Back to PCs, with Steam if a game sells a ton of copies, over time that meant they couldn't sell anymore at the price suggested, and had to make the price cheaper. As it is mostly a percentage to Valve, then its marked down, just cheaper. Same with those greatest hits copies, sold cheaper. So the guy who made that comment could have expressed better depth behind that, otherwise its sensible. The value of the game deceases as its ran its limit of top dollar sales. So forth.

[@CzlowiekDrzewo]

GARY KILLED ALL

[@acidangel111]

This really didn't age well.. The ' well if everyone would have one , maybe they would be like records - 10 dollars a piece .... was then and is now complete and absolute crap. Software pricing has NOTHING to do and has NEVER had to do with supply and demand like a record or cassette tape once upon a time.

[@TheSkepticalIdealist]

The idea that it's "exactly" the same as stealing a car is such a stupid argument, why do they have to ruin a perfectly valid point? It's actually quite significantly meaningfully different. They always made their argument worse when they said things like this.

[@sologals361]

we wont say his name. we will just show his face........FACEPALM.

[@cyphaborg6598]

It wasn't piracy that lead to his demise though. LMAO Activision " there's no need "

[@ferreday1]

Combe over chronicles,

[@thomasmaurer1097]

i got msdos 5.0 on 5 1/4inc for 10$ :P

[@axiomfinity]

Software is too expensive especially for compilers like bp7 making it hard for the poor to get into programming so we turn to a pirate bbs to get our tools.

[@alexsmith6607]

cost is the key way to stop Piracy , higher the cost more the download.

[@DirtyBob7777]

it's only illegal if you get caught... 300 baud is slower than snail snot.

[@AriannaEuryaleMusic]

Love this show.. even now year 2312 cant believe Stewart was so stupid over that kid

[@PauloConstantino167]

If you don't want your software pirated, don't write software. I hate, hate, HATE, money hungry bastards.

[@TheChodax]

Amen.

[@DanVanDam]

You hear that indie company who works out of a garage. Wanting money for there time and effort on a long project. Same to you Painter who worked on a chisel for solid hours standing up. your art is free! (sarcasm) Information is free pending. If a person chooses to ask for a fee for a application. It is there problem, Not yours. The term Fuck does not apply to me simply because I know I am clearly not in the wrong to think openly on the subject. ^_^.

[@chukchee]

When I go in the store, and the product costs too much, I steal it. If it were cheaper, I would not steal it. :)

[@nicktucker3437]

getting on a BBS on an Apple II, sad, should at least be using a Commodore 64 and Fast Hack'm was way better than Locksmith. The only worthwhile program on the Apple II anyhow was Oregon Trail anyhow. Reality is the harder they made the copy protection is the more groups it appealed to as they all wanted to be the first to release a cracked version of the software showing they were the first to outsmart the developers. It was a game inside a game.

[@doriangray6326]

Microsoft Ms DOS was software piracy CPM ,..

[@Astinsan]

Arrrrrrr!

[@jexes23]

Why wouldn't people copy that stuff if they for some unknown reason wanted another copy of that garbage? Those graphics and features are complete shit. You'd have to pay me to use that crap.

[@KentPittsburgh]

Haha, give them a fake name "Frankie Mouse," but show your face on TV...makes sense to me. I also how he looks like the cliche hacker from the 80s and 90s.

[@marsh84722]

arr matey

[@Kg277]

Soob-Logic?? bwwawawwwaaaaaaahaha!

[@u0aol1]

I copy cdroms.

[@andycristea]

12.2hrs/week on a pc... hahahaah i beat that in a day!

[@hunterleach5710]

I don't know if anyone thought of this piracy prevention idea in the 1980s, but I know it's possible, but here is how it would work, each copy would have its own code that is randomly generated, the code would be encrypted, once you ran the program program with display phone number and you would hook your modem up to the telephone and you would have to dial the telephone number before you could do anything else,, once you called it the program would connect to a database of codes and copying software, , and when it has all the information it would scan your computer for software that was used most commonly for pirating software, if it found any you would be unable to use the program until you would,, remove the software , and you would also be greeted with a message saying you are not allowed to use this software

[@jonathont5570]

Dont copy... ruin the industry....blah blah blah.... Still looks really good to me, now where is may VPN password.

[@mauryginsberg7720]

GNU/Linux is the way of the Jedi! :)

[@tonyman1106]

4:36 the days before activision sold there soul to the devil

[@FurbyGender]

That John guy who owns the Captain software company, obviously has some sort of disorder that causes compulsive rocking. I would say likely it's Autism but, I don't think much of anything was known about Autism then.

[@theedrstrangelove]

COC Leader That is the guy who taught Jobs and Wozniak how to phonephreak! Oh, and you are right, he is not "normal". He's probably only taken 3 showers since this aired!

[@munchyman3]

+Mentholian Smoke Too much acid.

[@ldchappell1]

I wonder what that Activision guy would think of Bittorent and Pirate Bay? They should change the name from Pirate Bay to Malware Bay. You're just begging for it if you try to download something using Pirate Bay. I wouldn't be surprised if 8 out 10 files on that site are infected with something. I still remember all the talk about Napster in the late 90s. Back then people were still using dial up service. It was possible to download a complete CD or album but it was also time consuming and most of the time you would end up getting cut off. I downloaded some obscure 60s stuff off Napster because I couldn't find it anywhere else. It took at least 12 to 15 minutes to download one three minute song. That was tame compared to what you can do now. These days with broad band internet you can go go to sites like Pirate Bay and type in "Complete Discography of The Beatles." and have the entire catalog downloaded onto your hard drive in 30 minutes.

[@ldchappell1]

Supercat Mao I haven't had any problems with torrents since I switched from Zone Alarm to Panda Anti-Virus. It doesn't allow any crap files into your computer.

[@blackneos940]

+ldchappell1 I don't really have to worry about Viruses or Malware since I use Linux..... :) It's AWESOME!..... :D

[@ldchappell1]

blackneos940 Yep. The only way to get a virus on Linux is if the virus was specifically designed for Linux and that's very rare. It goes against the whole purpose of creating viruses which is to infect as many computers as possible. Right now I'm using a 2007 Dell 280 Optiplex desktop with Windows XP Pro that I rescued from a garbage dumpster 3 years ago. . The only thing it was missing was the RAM cards. I installed 2 GB of RAM and now it works great. As soon as I buy a newer computer I'm going to convert it into a Linux machine. I did some research on it and my computer is a perfect candidate for that type of operating system change. That way I won't have to worry about malware and viruses because Microsoft is no longer providing security updates. By the way, blackneos, what browser are you using? Firefox or Chrome? Another reason I want to convert is because I heard that Chrome will no longer be protecting computers with the XP operating system.

[@PoeRacing]

Steam caused me to stop pirating games. A nice clean interface with good support and decent pricing for the value of what you get. If only streaming TV and movies weren't such a jungle.

[@DanVanDam]

You hear that, silence. Why? Because there are no black Apache Helicopters. :) But hey I will let you ramble lol. As far as the term "sheep to the flock" your example to me is not even valid. I am clear hearing to open information like the next guy, however if its IP its another ball game. But hey keep thinking the world is free. Because your cheap do not make excuses for yourself. Have a good one man.

[@richardfirthucsb]

HAHA they live in the past. what muppets they are.

[@thomasmaurer1097]

my idea is to make piracy go away .. ok we put evey thang online as a browser app ... and we give it away for free .... boom stopped piracy lol or make ROM catty again lol --- Linux for life

[@SlayerOfCunts]

Fun fact for those of you who didn't know this: Frankie Mouse is Jeffrey Dahmer. Sad to see all that intelligence wasted.

[@rosemarysandcastle]

i used fastcopy 3 on atari st. now atari are dead