The Contrarians: Worst Album Edition, Episode 3: Led Zeppelin's Presence

Metal Maverick Martin Popoff and fellow Contrarian Marco go in deep on Led Zeppelin Presence!
The Contrarians is a show where one of us picks a dark horse album from a band as their best. In this series we tend to lean the other way and look at a band's worst album.
Agree, disagree or agree to disagree! Let us know in the comments where we failed to hit the mark and why you would have done a better job!
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[@thecontrarians2438]

We felt pretty strongly about Presence from Led Zeppelin being their worst album, but if you watch the episode you will see that we also praise the album and discuss how it is actually a good album. When you compare it to the rest of Zeppelin's catalog it doesn't look so hot, but which other album would you rate lower than this one?

[@paulmonahawk4921]

I think most of the effort, time, or budget perhaps went into the two big epic tracks on presence (ALS and NFBM) the rest are kind of forgetable. ITTO is my choice for weakest, it is good to hear plant and jones working together on that one but page is definately conspicous in his absence by then he was big into heroin, by all accounts

[@thecontrarians2438]

@@paulmonahawk4921 Ya and Plant's son was killed during this album or right before right? could be off on the timeline about that.

[@paulmonahawk4921]

@@thecontrarians2438 If you think about that context songs like all of my love become really heartbreaking...

[@terrytheman3317]

Plant's son died during the 1977 tour for this album

[@richardtyson8258]

In Through the Out Door is the worst

[@TimsVinylConfessions]

Great episode...have to mention though...they DID perform "For Your Life" during the 2007 reunion show, and it was a nice surprise.

[@thecontrarians2438]

Wow cool piece of info we over looked! Thanks for the comment and the compliment!

[@TimsVinylConfessions]

@Martin Popoff Sure why not haha

[@Chrisdrumz]

Unfortunately it seems most of the audience at that show had NO idea what song they where playing.

[@bernardmaasdijk734]

@@Chrisdrumz Always a problem for bands: they finally decide to play an "obscure" song as something of a surprise and half the audience heads for the bar (or nowadays start checking their social media probably).

[@user-mr6kg2op8m]

My favourite led Zeppelin album personally :P not even just for Achilles last stand , I love every track.

[@thecontrarians2438]

wow! Hope you don't hate us now! We really like the album the too,we just thought it was up against some tough competition. It really is a return to roots hard rockin album led mostly by Page. Can't go wrong with that!

[@petervanbuskirk500]

It's a top 3 Zeppelin album for me.

[@michaelthompson3286]

I wonder why they felt like they had to rush into this album? You'd think they could dictate when they wanted to release something by this point?

[@pjones8404]

I couldn't disagree more. Presence is my all-time FAVORITE album! No apologies! Top to bottom it is just amazing. Robert Plant does some of his best singing and the sonics are amazing! "Achilles Last Stand" - One of the heaviest songs they ever did. It's relentless and Bonham's drumming is massive! "For Your Life" - What a groove! John Paul Jones and John Bonham are spectacular! Jimmy's solo is so unusual and special. "Royal Orleans" - This belongs on side one of Led Zeppelin III right after "Out On the Tiles". Again, Bonham is crushing it! (sense a trend??) "Nobody's Fault By Mine" - Simply one of my all-time favorite Zeppelin songs. So progressive and heavy. Robert's harmonica solo is awesome. "Candy Store Rock" - All groove and feel. A great change of pace to the rest of the album. "Hots On For Nowhere" - Funky and some stunning drumming from John Bonham. It is just works for me on all levels. "Tea For One" - AH...the real gem. Without hesitation this is my favorite Jimmy Page guitar solo ever. The amount of space between the notes in that groove is breathtaking. It's so bluesy and dark. Just a perfectly constructed masterpiece! The real stars of this album are John Bonham and John Paul Jones. They are in perfect sync the entire album. Is this their heaviest album? No...but it is the one I listen to the most and have since 1976. So my Led Zeppelin rankings are as follows. 1) Presence 2) Led Zeppelin II 3) Led Zeppelin III 4) Led Zeppelin IV 5) Led Zeppelin I 6) Physical Graffiti 7) Houses of the Holy 8) In Through the Out Door

[@thecontrarians2438]

nice list, we actually discussed between the three: Houses, ITTOD and Presence, Martin seemed to like ITTOD a little more and I liked Houses a little more so we settled on Presence, so we kind of agreed between the two of us it was the worst but actually i think Martin doesnt put it on the bottom of his own list and I'd have to re-evaluate mine to see where it falls on mine, but like we said its one of the highest rated "worst" albums we did, and in this case we were probably being more nit-picky and cheeky more than just disregarding its merits. Achilles is probably in my top 3 zeppelin songs.

[@drummer78]

“Presence” isn’t their best but damn, “Nobody’s Fault But My Mine” is one of my favorites of LZ. It has everything: spooky Jimmy Page guitar intro, a monster flam intro by John Bonham, blues harp solo by Robert Plant and killer bass by JPJ.

[@thecontrarians2438]

I dont disagree!

[@drummer78]

The Contrarians I think it was that first flam by John Bonham that really struck me when I first heard the song. I don’t think “Presence” is thought of as a production gem but (as you noted on the show), the drums are great. Insightful show. Be interesting to hear a Contrarians show on a Who album.

[@thecontrarians2438]

@@drummer78 Wow ya I don't even know what we'd do for the Who if we were to do a regular episode or worst album episode, worst album episode would probably be something they did in the 80s... good recommendation though.

[@drummer78]

The Contrarians I think the much maligned Face Dances deserves a revisit. The Who Are You Album is fascinating on a lot of levels too (Keith Moon essentially being incapable of playing but somehow still doing it), the album as a response to punk, John Entwistle’s songs, “Not to Be Taken Away” cover art. Last Moon record. kzbin.info/www/bejne/fZW3eaRqn7V7oa8

[@thecontrarians2438]

@@drummer78 sounds like i'll have to check it out with some fresh ears!

[@seancushnie974]

I’d like to add that as someone who has played bass for 17 years, studied music, rhythm harmony etc. this record really grooves real hard, and great rhythmic interplay between the boys. I think it lacks in the arrangements, song concepts and lyrics. But it is still stronger than most bands best record in my opinion

[@thecontrarians2438]

Awesome, appreciate the musical expertise. I think zeppelin's worst, whether people think its ITTOD or CODA, or Presence really is still pretty solid.

[@aweekback1]

Thank you!!!!!! So much fun hanging out with yas

[@thecontrarians2438]

haha you're welcome! come hang out anytime!

[@marclahn7072]

Martin, I'm so with ya here at the top w/PG & III (but not Presence, which I like) btw, "Sick as a Dog" is my fave Aerosmith song Anyway, completely agree about Physical Graffiti (not only my fave Zep, but I too rank it as an all time fave LP from anyone). Also, LZ III is absolutely brilliant, unique and engrossing, with some of the bands most unique and engaging songs (Friends, Out On The Tiles, Celebration Day, Bron-Y-Aur Stomp, That's The Way, etc.) So absolutely PG & III. Both awesome. Also want to say that "The Crunge" is bloody fantastic. All of you saying that song is crap, you're just no fun. And get some analog funk into your life! Rock is best when it's tight and inspires "Uuuuuhs" and "Owwws" Not to mention guitar and how cool funk chords are as well as big riffs * Presence is a really good album, bolstered by its best tracks "For Your Life," "Royal Orleans," (see Crunge), "Nobody's Fault But Mine," and "Achilles Last Stand" **I might agree with you about Candy Store Rock and Tea For One (overlong, don't look forward to it) has never been a fave...almost like the album ends just before that song begins. BUT I love it's intro though! Wish the song had stayed in that groove. Hots On For Nowhere is a good track. I enjoy it quite a bit. Not as much as the LPs best, but still good to me. ***Finally, guy on the right (my right, watching this). There are gems on this record. Second, stop going by old critics' reviews from back then, as gospel. We all knew most of those were off base and ignorant at the time. you look foolish going by what they had to say. Better to listen to real fans and musicians. We'll tell you the gospel! Marc (NJ, USA)

[@cladouce]

Thanks guys, great episode and loving the concept, please keep at it! I completely agree with Martin, if you have to choose, it is Presence (and thanks for the history lesson!) though I would rank Houses next ahead of Out Door. I assume Coda doesn't qualify though it is definitely my least favourite

[@thecontrarians2438]

Thanks for the positive comments on the format! we hope to continue for the for see able future. You're right about Coda, it's kind of a compilation album more than a regular studio album. Martin was a little more partial to Out Door and I was a little more partial to Houses, hence we were left with Presence as the clear bottom.

[@JCM-LedZeppelin-Stories]

As someone who owns 26 copies of In Through the Outdoor and a Zepp head..i agree with Martin. Presence had no backstory, no concept other than survival and probably forced on Robert. It drags on the chord motifs that stuck with Jimmy after PG - see Custard Pie. I love the album but in terms of creativity its has many limitations, its hangover vibe is never an easy listening, like a metallic post-heroin recollection. In Through The Outdoor was the "reunion" and reconciliation album after the worse tragedy the band faced before 1980. Their most original stuff (as in sounds and styles, even proto 80s synth rock, no Van Halen Jump without Carouselambra) was Led Zeppelin III, Houses and ITTOD. Kashmir could not have happened without Friends. Drumming wise Bonham got better and tastier as time went on, he saved Presence. Loved the video. God Bless You Guys!

[@thecontrarians2438]

thanks for the comment!!

[@JCM-LedZeppelin-Stories]

@@thecontrarians2438 thanks for the reply :)

[@jonblackers4339]

" its hangover vibe is never an easy listening, like a metallic post-heroin recollection."Great people have silly ideas as well.I never used heroin or smoked , only coffee with loads of milk but I LOVE Presence and ITTO I try to appreciate and it has its great moments but man that fucking synth/80 s drivel.....I hated JUMP. What did that have to do with heavyrock?

[@damiankarras]

Agreed, although I could also say In Through The Out Door as well.

[@thecontrarians2438]

Ya, they are typically the bottom two of Led Zeppelin's albums.

[@neillenet291]

@Martin Popoff I give JPJ alot of credit for getting in through the out door completed. From what I read Page was in a herion stupor and of course Plant had just lost his son.

[@markwilliams8829]

Sorry, but it’s gotta be in through the out door for this one.....

[@thecontrarians2438]

Ya it was close for us

[@jonblackers4339]

@@thecontrarians2438 PRESENCE is a desert island disc where ITTO is something to reflect upon by people claiming to be openminded by synths et all.

[@tomojay28]

Agree with Martin, the opening to Tea For One is catchy; wish they had built a song around that riff

[@jml8238]

This episode is right on the money. We all seem to agree that Achilles and Nobody are the strongest songs on "Presence". They are quite repetitive but great nonetheless. The artwork for the album is pretty iconic though, almost more than the musical content, to some extent. I used to rate "In Through The Out Door" as the weakest album up to 2020 because......Hot Dog. Once we skip that song and we digest the obnoxious keyboard riff in Carouselambra, ITTOD is actually a fun listen. Granted it is more mature-sounding than rocking but the musicianship on it is eclectic and focused, in true Zeppelin-fashion. So awesome to hear that final Plant-shriek in I'm Gonna Crawl. Nowadays, after learning just how much of it is borrowed, I'm tempted to say that the 2nd-worst album is LZ1.

[@thecontrarians2438]

haha thanks for being on our side! We've been getting killed in the comments for this one! Appreciate the support!

[@neilshaw1329]

It's always difficult to say best and worst about LZ when the standard is so high in all their output, and amazingly varied. Saw them play Achilles at Knebworth in '79 which at the time blew me away.

[@briandunlap8534]

For Your Life was played at the final reunion concert

[@azdh85224]

I am really enjoying your videos. I found Martin on Pete’s channel and find this discussion and info so interesting. I am a guitar player and for me, Led Zep has a lot of cool riff songs I can play on guitar. Presence does not have the riffs and that is why I don’t like it as much as the others. Keep up the great work. 👍🏻

[@thecontrarians2438]

Awesome thank you! Pete and Martin are metal beasts! they go on deep dives of bands I've never even heard of before! Hopefully you stick around for a while, thanks for the comment!

[@seancushnie974]

I absolutely love Presence. I would pick Coda as the worst but it’s really a b-sides and rarities record, and that is really great too. Led Zeppelin never made a bad album

[@jimg6570]

I generally agree with your reviews but would add that "Nobody's Fault But Mine" is one of the best remakes in rock history. Thunderous drum attack by Bonham.

[@thecontrarians2438]

Thanks for the comment!

[@david10006]

I don't know if i would use the word "worst", more like weakest. It's an odd album in the sense that I've heard it dozens of times and love it while it's playing but little sticks with you after it's done besides "Achilles", "Nobody's Fault but mine" and maybe "Royal Orleans". More then anything they just sounded tired. To me, "In Through The Out Door" was a breath of fresh air and sounded like a band having fun again.

[@thecontrarians2438]

ya, hard to call it a bad album, but one of them has to be the worst of the bunch, Zeppelin had a pretty solid output you cant go wrong with any of the albums.

[@anypoxynames]

Not a fan of ITTOD, weakest for me. It's about opinions, really.

[@Mike-aka747]

Not the worst zep album. That honor goes to ITTOD. Too much filller on that album. Hot Dog?? Haha. You gotta be joking! And 2 other tracks suck too high heaven as well. No other Zep offering has 3 bad tracks on it. The only song on Prescence I can’t tolerate is Tea for One.

[@thecontrarians2438]

Ya, it's a toss up for me though. Presence pretty much being the only thing probably off of both albums that I really like... And Martin likes ITTOD a little more, but it wasnt hard to give up either of them TBH

[@rileyyoung8525]

I would say "For Your Life" is the hidden gem on Presence. Really heavy drums from Bonham on that track.

[@keitha.563]

For your life is amazing . Not sure exactly what they are talking about.

[@allsystemsgo8678]

Tea for one is awesome. I don't love Achilles but you have to respect it. Crazy epic track.

[@dawnthechaldean5377]

Also, I like the way Martin said remastering doesn't change his mind about an album. An album is only as good content-wise as it was the day it hit the record stores. Anything after that is like cheating.

[@thecontrarians2438]

Yep, I get the fortunate chance to pick his brain when we do these so i make the most of it when I can.

[@blaisebarshaw2534]

I will respectfully disagree. Out Door is worse. And I gotta admit I rarely listen to Houses of the Holy either. Presence had a freshness and brightness I actually enjoy. I thought it was their best production job.

[@thecontrarians2438]

Ya and we kind of threw around all three of those albums, but like I mentioned in another reply, Martin was a bit more partial to Out Door, and I was a bit more partial to Houses, which left Presence out in the cold, for better or worse, but ya, we can split hairs about Led Zeppelin all day, its a great discography

[@shadowstealer2790]

I'm someone who loves equally rock, reggae, funk, rap ,post-punk, drum and bass and music from India and Africa. I'm also lucky enough to have seen Zep do "Achilles Last Stand" at Knebworth in '79 and yes it was stunning, what a track, def in my Zep top 5 .Two of the criticisms made are the reasons I like "Presence". For "rushed" read spontaneous and not laboured over. Plant's voice is far less upfront and his lyrics are more cryptic which for me is far better that the overly male bombast and tolkienesque fluff that are the elements I like least about the earlier albums. The way into funk that they found on "Trampled" is soaked into their bones on Presence, and at least 3 of the tracks have effortless grooves that you could play happily next to a mid -70's.Funakadelic album. I would dispute the implication that pressured, unhappy conditions necessarily make for a lesser album, ultimately there no rules on what makes greatness.I agree that "Physical" is their best, but Presence is by no means their worst, I prefer it to "III" and "Houses".

[@thecontrarians2438]

wow ya great points, i think you're right about not having to be in the happiest state to make a great album and I can see your point about Plant's voice, but I dont think the way he sang on Presence was a stylistic choice, I do think his vocals were labored but its certainly subjective as to what you enjoy hearing. I can see your point about Funkadelic and you could probably slide some of those songs right onto a Funkadelic album, but I dont think they would stand up to Funk's strongest songs off of their better albums. Great comment thank you.

[@shadowstealer2790]

@@thecontrarians2438 A pleasure guys, great to wag about music with you. True it was not a stylistic choice on Plant's part, but neither was it Lennon's choice to have a heavy flu when he sang "Twist and Shout" and arguably bettered the Isley Brothers' version which is no mean feat ! Point taken about Funkadelic, but it's still really something when a band rocks hard and heavy but you notice you're swinging your hips to them rather than banging your head ( or maybe both at once who knows). I detect an admiration for the great Funkadelic, would be great if you guys and the Classic Rock Vlogosphere in general gave them a shout, they belong there as much as they do in Funk and Soul.

[@PittsburghRocks]

I always stop after Achilles Last Stand. Follow-up is inconsistent but much more interesting.

[@marclahn7072]

Thought I should at least follow up to state which LZ album I think is the weakest. Neglected to do that in my previous comment. This is def a "read more" entry. So.... I won't say "worst" because Led Zeppelin never made a truly "bad" album. Maybe if they'd been afforded a career in the pastel-tinged MTV 80s, with its headstockless guitars and big shoulder pads they could've possibly made a bad one. But I guess, the great John Bonham saved them from that kind of horrible chance. Again, to reiterate, LZ didn't make any bad albums. Not like we're talking: Kansas - Power Rush - Hold Your Fire Rolling Stones - Dirty Work AC/DC - Blow Up Your Video Bowie - Never Let Me Down (and the last two there, AC/DC & Bowie, are all time favorite artists of mine, so it pains me to state the obvious there...but they are bad albums. *amongst an incredible career of brilliance though) Anyway, my vote for "worst" Zep is indeed "In Through The Outdoor" (1979). Again, while I do not consider it "bad," nearly half (or half) of the record does make me a little queasy (and I'm not really talking 'hot dogs' here) I was 13 in 1979. If into music, films, etc. it was kind of a brilliant age to be, within such an exciting year (promising little era) on this planet. Future looked and felt thrilling in many ways. But thanks to the emergence of a particular 3 letter logo a couple years later, that wonderful promise pretty much got smashed to bits and thrown into the trash. Still, 1979-1981 was a special little wrinkle in time and I'll always love it. I digress... So I bought ITTO brand new at Two Guys (dept store) record dept. week it came out, in 1979. The LP was covered by the brown bag (looked like a larger version of my lunch bag for school) it was yet another groovy/mysterious marketing idea of the 70s! As we all know, there were slightly different artwork covers (the barroom scene, similar bit different), under that bag. *Btw, could there be a less exciting ploy for selling an LP? -- "Oooh , I wonder which 'slightly altered picture of some dejected dude in a bar' I'll get!! This was no "Roxy Music - Country Life". Still, I didn't know what was under there, and was obviously excited for the new Zep LP. Buying it that day, was just one of so many memorable LP purchases during the true golden age of ROCK. But then I got it home. -- And I did go in thru the back door (if that matters) The first track, "In The Evening," suckered me into believing this was another great (now decade closing) Zeppelin album, with it's big riff and undeniable verse sections. Great song! And the 2nd track, "South Bound Suarez" came off unique, catchy and carrying a vague sense of humor too (something I always like in my rock n roll) The problems came after that. With only one, count em ONE, other song I genuinely liked off this record. Thank God it was 10 minutes long ("Carouselambra") with it's fantastic sludge-riff-middle that still gets me scrambling for a Bic lighter. So 3 of the album's songs did pay off for me. But the rest of it, really did not. And still does not. 1. "Fool In The Rain" sounds like Phil Collins (or let's say Phil Collins to come) with Plant in far too whiny voice for the refrains, and a sort of "circling musical approach" that makes me dizzy, not in a good way. This was the first song on the LP that made me feel seasick. I grant you that it's a somewhat catchy number, but so is "Row, Row, Your Boat" and "Tie a Yellow Ribbon..." 2. Now "Hot Dog," for me, is a bit unfairly maligned. I mean, look, it is a parody. Weird how some people just don't get a bit of playful, natural humor and/or can't give the band a chance to have a little fun for 3:15. We all know Plant was an Elvis fan. And Jimmy grew up with that skiffle. Give em a break. Let 'em rip some saloon mug smasher for 3 minutes. And I am "no fan" of country (esp this modern dreck that's been going on since the 90s) but "Hot Dog" is a catchy and quasi-fun kinda throwback tune, right? if you can just allow yourself to be silly or understanding for 3 damn minutes. It's just too easy to criticize this song. They did it well. Leave 'em alone about it. 3. BUT then we get to the "seasick plus!" part of the album, with the again, admittedly catchy/ 'single ready' "All My Love" I remember liking this song, at first, in '79. The opening synth riff sounded good in my air conditioned bedroom. But over the years, and with more and more girls saying "oh, that's my favorite Led Zeppelin song!"(barf) it just became more and more of an nauseating albatross of a tune. I nearly grew --fearful-- of Robert's queasy, whining, oft repeating chorus. So, I'm not sure if it's this one or "Fool" that I like least, but it's definitely one of 'em. 4. And that leaves us with essentially, a "torch song" in "I'm Gonna Crawl." (this album's Tea For One) Crawl is better than Tea though. It's actually very good. *Still do love the intro of T41. If they'd stuck with that groove induced, wholly unique idea, Presence probably wouldn't be headlined up there. So, then.....for all of what I've said here, in such a quick, pithy manner (wink, nudge), "In Through the Outdoor" imo, is the weakest Zep. You can't say "Coda," it's a compilation. And one that includes some very good numbers at that. In the end, I will not say that ITTO so much deserved to be adorned with that proverbial "brown bag over it's head" It is a decent LP, one that truly carries it's own personality (and mild charms) into the oblivion of future generations. And "In the Evening," "South Bound Suarez" and "Carouselambra" are absolute keepers. I'm just saying it's the weakest of a great 12 year run. The strongest aspects of "Presence" are superior and more impressive than really anything on ITTO, save for maybe "In the Evening" and "Carouselambra" (esp the latter's killer, slowed down middle section!) Spark one up for that. Heh! 🔥 Marc

[@MrDavidStevens]

I think there are only 3 albums which are really in the running for least good: Presence, In Through the Out Door, and Houses of the Holy. Personally I love HotH, but I know many consider it markedly weaker than the tried & true classics so I mentioned it. But far and away the other two are the ones which carry the burden for "worst" in the catalog among most fans it seems. So in that sense I'm not even sure I'd classify this as a contrarian pick, since I would have immediately narrowed down the choices to Presence and In Through the Out Door. Or rather, this might only get a few contrarian points because I would agree that ITtOD is the most likely pick for worst, but Presence is definitely second in line for a lot of fans. That being said I might have to go revisit both Presence and ITtOD because I'm not sure I have an opinion past knowing which songs I really like on both albums. My choice for worst might come down just to which album has the fewest songs I don't like or love. They each definitely have classic songs for me. I love Achilles Last Stand, it was likely my favorite Zeppelin tune when I was a teenager. Nobody's Fault But Mine is a classic as well for me. Just glancing at ITtOD there are 4 songs I like quite a lot, so like I said it probably comes down to which record has the lowest lows, or the fewest weak moments. Side note: I laughed at the Peter Criss comment

[@thecontrarians2438]

Hey thanks for the comment! We actually were discussing which album between the 3 we would do but I liked more songs on Houses and Martin liked more songs on ITTOD so we naturally landed on Presence. There are redeemable qualities and weaknesses about all three so really like you said it just come down to preference of songs. Achillies is probably the strongest song off of all three albums though. Thanks for the comments! Glad we gave you a laugh too!

[@maverickminstrel1557]

i prefer this album to houses of the holy...and...in thru the out door...but i enjoy the fact you do know wot youre talking about too...great stuff..

[@thecontrarians2438]

I thank you!! 🙏

[@kimberlywalker3970]

I'm a fairly new Led Zeppelin fan so, I love shows dealing w/them. I would also rate this album a six. Like most people, I don't think any of their studio albums are "bad" but, I would rank it second to the bottom just before Led Zeppelin III. My favorite song on this album is Nobody's Fault But Mine. It's also my second favorite Zeppelin song. I also like For Your Life, Achilles Last Stand and Tea For One. The remaining songs are pretty forgettable, in my opinion. It's also a Zeppelin album I don't reach for often. If I want to hear three of the four songs I mentioned, I can watch one of their lives shows and they'll play them. And, they were near the end of their run so, the wear and tear is understandable. Not a bad album but, based on Led Zeppelin standards, it's definitely not their best.

[@thecontrarians2438]

Good points thanks for the comment! I pretty much agree with you!

[@Danimal77]

While I'd rank Presence as my least favourite Led Zeppelin album, it does contain my favourite Led Zeppelin song of all their albums, Achilles Last Stand. I also think Tea For One is very underrated, but in many ways it feels like a poor man's version of Since I've Been Loving You. Other highlights are, For Your Life, and Nobody's Fault But Mine. Remember, I said that Presence is my least favourite album, but it's far from being a bad album, but in terms of their other stellar albums (perhaps with the exception of In Through The Out Door), it's not top quality from start to finish. With exception to the songs I mentioned, the rest feel more like b-sides that didn't make it onto Physical Graffiti.

[@thecontrarians2438]

Nobody's Fault and Achilles are pretty much the only things I think a casual fan would be interested in, If your a deeper fan of music theirs definitely more to presence, and as for being a "worst" album (which found its way there for us because of process of elimination) it's the highest one we've rated so far. Thanks for all the comments!

[@jonblackers4339]

@@thecontrarians2438 So most "real fans"" put PRESENCE in the worse albums list but people being a deeper dan of their music think there s definitely more to PRESENCE? I dont get you guys. Did you also basH Achilles and also admitting its the best song of the album? Its one of THE classics. PRESENCE is one of my favourites, to hell with the naysayers. I love WHO DO WE THINK WE ARE AS WELL and I still almost vomit hearing ITTO

[@mikewest1542]

I had all the Led Zep albums , but I sold TSRTS and ITTOD, very poor live and studio albums, but funnily enough I kept Coda, ( played twice) , on Presence only Achilles last stand and Nobody’s fault but mine satisfy !

[@thecontrarians2438]

I've seen people rate Coda quite well! on Guitar Hack's Zeppelin ranking episode with Pete Pardo and Martin Popoff im pretty sure it ranked quite decently on everyone's lists even more than the first record!

[@rael2099]

Zep is not over rated, and they're godly, lol. Presence is indeed over rated by many fans. It's an album full of torture, and you can hear that in Plant's strained vocal cords. The death of his child and his accident's painful sequels. A nightmarish period of time that spawned a troubled album. They changed the rules of the game as drastically as The Beatles did. It kind of happened the same with Let it Be vs Led Zeppelin II and Presence vs Rocks. One band is literally going through the out door and a new one starts to take over. Although I'd place Van Halen higher instead of Aerosmith. Having said this, Zep was a short lived band that lasted 2 albums too far. They were like a shooting star that overstayed their presence, pun intended. I'm also fond of In Through the Out Door, and they seemed to start to adapt to the times (Jonesy's pixie magic all over the place again), perhaps they had more life ahead, but alas, Bonham dies and we never got to know what could have been of them in the turn of the new decade.

[@thecontrarians2438]

Wow well said thank you for commenting!

[@lucymolockian1849]

I'm going with ITTOD.

[@caramanico1]

Presence is a FABULOUS AND FANTASTIC album! More diversity (ie, acoustic material) does NOT automatically make an album better than any other - the overall quality and feel is the key, emotion being what music is about. There is A LOT of energy, power and emotion in every single track, though we all have faves and dislikes concerning specific tracks. Jimmy developed his "guitar army." Bonzo is incredible everywhere. Plant is a much more mature singer (and person). GUYS GUYS GUYS - this album has as much power as any of their others but it shows a ton of maturity. IT IS A GREAT GREAT GREAT collection of songs.

[@michaelfrazia4569]

physical graffiti is my favorite zep album...only thing that I don't like about them post 72 is plants live voice completely lost its upper register...for any version of any song anyone can tell me he sounds good live after 72 i can show you a live version from 72 and before where it's like 2 different singers. I prefer presence to in through the out door although I like in through the out door...I also liked hots on for nowhere and royal Orleans...I know I'm the only one...I think for your life is a classic underrated zep song and one of their best post physical....to me presence was pages album like in through the out door was jones...I love pages playing on presence...plants voice in the studio began showing the signs of what he was experiencing live for years...the higher singing on physical were the carryovers from houses of the holy, and the lower range stuff were from later sessions. he never regained his upper range ...sorry to zep fans ( I am a huge one) but that's the truth..by 26 plants voice had lost the wild high end that separated him and made him a legend. he was serviceable in the studio and awful live from 75-80...he actually sounded way better on the 79 tour than he did in 73, 75,and 77, but still never regained the pre 73 dynamic

[@DrJimmy88]

1. Presence is my favorite Zep record, but I know it's not for everyone 2. It can't be their "worst" album because it doesn't have The Crunge on it.

[@thecontrarians2438]

Haha fair enough!

[@keitha.563]

Achilles awesome guitar listen to it with headphones. For your life GREAT song . John Paul great Gallup bass on Achilles too . Heart made Barracuda ripped from zep just switched the bass to guitar. Tea for one is great . Your both not zepheads . Great album ✌🏻

[@thecontrarians2438]

Achillies is one of the greatest Zeppelin songs ever

[@jonblackers4339]

@@thecontrarians2438 but you still criticised it? Were you bored or seeking attention?

[@thekeysman1]

i know one thing for sure, All My Love is Led Zeppelin's worst song, for the few ballads they did do, or one of the songs played one radio that was awful, the instrumentation, the signing, their studio albums are magical overall, whenever i did hear the first few bars, the radio would be turned off, when i did listen to radio many years ago, who listens to radio any more???

[@domielakrabi3276]

Great show guys - thanks! I totally agree with you. Presence is a good record. LZ has no bad records only less great ones! In Through the Outdoor - often mentioned as the worst - was a bit more creative; a step in a different direction, into the 80's and I listen to it a bit more than to Presence and JPJ is really great on it. My favorites on Presence: "Nobody's Fault but Mine", "Tea for One" and of course "Achilles Last Stand" the dinosaur on the record.

[@thecontrarians2438]

Thanks for the comment! that's kind of how we felt, i think we rated Presence as a combined 6 or 7 which is pretty good for a "worst" album, GNR Chinese Democracy landed in the same kind of place where it's not a bad album but for certain reasons we said it couldnt be as high as Appetite or Illusions

[@Rataxes]

Well, Presence is the Zep album I've listened to more times than the other ones combined. It sure is Page's album and greatest moment. I find most of their albums very uneven, with tops and downs, like their "IV". side one is brilliant, side two is meh except for the fantastic "Levee". Just my 2c...

[@vbassone]

NO NO NO NO!!!!! AGAIN Martin, YOU COULD NOT BE MORE WRONG... IN THROUGH THE OUTDOOR IS THE WEAKEST OFFICIAL STUDIO RECORD ZEPPELIN MADE, NOT PRESENCE, WHICH HAS SOME GREAT GREAT PLAYING AND SONGS ON IT. AGAIN YOU DON'T KNOW WTF YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT. WRONG AGAINNNNNNNNNN.

[@thecontrarians2438]

lol ouch! that was quick! what songs do you prefer from Presence to ITTOD?

[@vbassone]

@Martin Popoff I don't care about the "many views" that are out there. CLEARLY, Presence is a much stronger record in general than most think, and CLEARLY ITTOD is a weaker record. Some of the best GROOVES Zeppelin ever played were on Presence. There are some incredibly funky feels/grooves that underscore several songs on Presence that are fantastic! Not to mention ACHILLES LAST STAND; one of the greatest Zeppelin tunes of all time.........

[@mortimerbustos4487]

The Presence album cover makes me think of how smart phones are now always present. It’s always there and drawing our attention much like the object on the album art.

[@thecontrarians2438]

wow! Awesome observation! you're right, and i'll probably think of that analogy whenever i see it

[@mortimerbustos4487]

@@thecontrarians2438 Thanks! Love the show!

[@mortimerbustos4487]

It adds to the black hole narrative as well.

[@thecontrarians2438]

@@mortimerbustos4487 Agreed! And thank you!

[@axl666axl666]

Presence is my fav Zeppelin album. If I had to pick a worst album (excluding Coda), I think I'd go with the debut. Really hard to call that worst though

[@Marcio-kv4uk]

I dig y’all discussions, but seriously, why not ITTOD? That sucks. In the Evening, south bons saurez and hot dog?!

[@thecontrarians2438]

we had come down to Houses, Presence and ITTOD, of course i wasnt gonna let Houses be worst and Martin was high on ITTOD, so Presence was kind of left in the cold, theres thing i like about both and things i dont like about both, tbh they're probably more about even for me, though Achilles is the best thing on either album

[@Misfitnz8]

Presents for me is good and why better than in through the out door

[@albertoramirez6388]

All of the songs have elements I like. Royal Orleans, Candy Store Rock, and Hots On for Nowhere are my least favorite, but I still enjoy them overall...

[@gincat8]

I do not agree...I love 'Presence'...I love that , imo, it is the bridge between JP's early playing style and what he would do post Zeppelin. JP's style really shifted on Presence...except for maybe on 'Tea for One'. I am a huge 'The Firm" fan...you can hear that the Firm grew from on Presence...I think the Firm albums are brilliant, but never get their fair shake existing in the shadows of both LZ and BC. The guitar work on Presence shows how JP continued to grow as an artist.

[@thecontrarians2438]

Interesting because I've heard people say that ITTOD is a reflection on what Plant would start doing after Zeppelin. We feel the same way about the influence of Page on Presence, when it came down to which album though for our worst spot, we kind of split between ITTOD and Houses of the Holy which left presence out in the cold, not a bad album at all though, Zeppelin was a solid band.

[@gincat8]

@@thecontrarians2438 I fully appreciate your analysis...I would have chosen to say something like'least best' rather than 'worst'...lol...they do not have any 'worst' really...for ages my two fave LZ records are 3 and Presence...for me, Presence is the under appreciated gem in the LZ canon...while I like ITTOD, it is almost like a record from a different band for me...Presence has some of JPs most creative fretboard stylings...strats and whammies too! Heck, my fave Deep Purple album is CTTB...

[@thecontrarians2438]

@@gincat8 ya I hear ya, somehow though i think "Least Best" doesnt have the same ring to it lol

[@gincat8]

@@thecontrarians2438 lol...you guys contextualise that 'worst' is actually still 'very good' in this instance...but I can think of some great bands that have done full on 'shark sandwich' level albums that deserve the term 'worst'...

[@jonblackers4339]

@@thecontrarians2438 Why then was Planty a coward hiring a Pagey like guitarplayer and adding 2 Zepp like songs with Cozy to Pics at 11?Principle of moments was such a depression for me, He allegedly said to that great guitarplayer to learn how not to play!

[@chopayrussell9660]

Not my favorite album of theirs but I think highly under rated and out does "In through the Outdoor"

[@ignatiusjackson235]

I'm in the weird camp that thinks "Nobody's Fault but Mine" is one of the weaker tracks, but I defend the album as a whole based on the merits of cuts like "For Your Life," "Royal Orleans," "Hots On for Nowhere," and "Achilles Last Stand". How's that for CONTRARIAN? 😁

[@thecontrarians2438]

haha you should be on the show!

[@ignatiusjackson235]

@@thecontrarians2438 Haha, thanks! 😁

[@leswadley6792]

Totally dig it guys! I’m so into your show! If you ever need a 4th guy lol! Best quote ever” Sounds like it could be on Peter criss solo album” lol! I for one love his solo album🤪🤦‍♂️!

[@thecontrarians2438]

haha thanks Les!! Glad you like the show! We'll let you know when we're hiring!

[@thecontrarians2438]

we are going to do a video feedback episode if you want to send a short (1-2 min) feedback clip of yourself to our email [e-mail] we will eventually respond to it in an episode!

[@leswadley6792]

@@thecontrarians2438 Sweet! I definitely will!

[@ignatiusjackson235]

Aerosmith couldn't lick "Achilles Last Stand" with Gene Simmons' tongue.

[@iancocks9408]

I quite like the album as it’s led zeppelin, I would rate it a above iii and in through the out door. But all their albums are good to me. iii is good acoustic numbers but the electric songs are very weak.

[@thecontrarians2438]

They're all pretty good, this one is one of our higher rated "worst" album episodes!

[@jonblackers4339]

I was pretty much bored by the acoustic stuff on 3, 1 would have been enough.

[@kevinthetruckdriver353]

This is easy. Worst: A) Coda B) Presence Best: (my favorites) A) Houses of the Holy B) Ruins (Led Zeppelin IV)

[@thecontrarians2438]

nice! Martin had Houses as one of his worst but i saved it because i like it a lot!

[@kevinthetruckdriver353]

@@thecontrarians2438 - *Houses of the Holy* is the only album (vinyl) where I listen to the side A. Then I flipped the album over so I could find that gosh darn bridge.

[@josephrobertmah3438]

I have nothing to add....extremely respectfully critiqued by Martin and Marco and lots of good comments here. Well, maybe a couple of things to add: the album sounds a bit claustrophobic - after Archilles Last Stand, it sound like an early example of the “Loudness War” with the dynamic range being crushed. Aside from Archilles and maybe Nobody’s Fault But Mine, there are precious few hooks (not a bad thing - jazz and classical often lack hooks but Led Zeppelin usually have killer hooks). The album cover could have been better - some of the pictures look fantastic but a few could have been more realistic looking - no shadow of the object on the golf course or the mountain. If it was intentional, I didn’t get it (referring to Martin’s comment of the absence). Finally, Most people rate In Through the Out Door as their worst, but it was the only album released after I had become a fan (besides Coda, which was an album of out takes), so that holds a special place in my heart. Another great episode. Thanks, Gents!

[@thecontrarians2438]

Thanks Joseph! Ya for picking this one it came down to Houses, Out door and Presence, Martin liked Outdoor a little more and I definitely had Houses ahead of Presence so we landed on Presence, even though we completed this episode and I had to do research, i have to think about whats on it and look at the track listing because it's quite forgettable (for me) although it also holds one of my top ten Zeppelin songs (Achillies) so it goes to show that not everything is black and white, and worst doesnt mean bad. Never noticed the lack of shadows in the pictures thanks for pointing that out!!

[@josephrobertmah3438]

@@thecontrarians2438 Thanks, Marco! I think that was a fair compromise. If you took heat from your audience for naming Presence the least of the Zeppelin albums, you may have been forced off the internet had you selected Houses of the Holy. Sure, The Crunge, Dancing Days, and The Ocean are pretty terrible but the other five songs are pretty important to the Zeppelin catalog. The opening two songs are really powerful, especially The Rain Song. As you mentioned, there are some good grooves & atmosphere on lesser known “Out Door” songs like Carouselambra, I’m Gonna Crawl, and Southbound Saurez. Tea For One, Candy Store Rock, Royal Orleans, Hots On For Nowhere - not so much! It’s Led Zeppelin so it’s great and innovative and powerful, but something has to come last.

[@thecontrarians2438]

@@josephrobertmah3438 ya houses to me is a classic, i dont think as much for martin but there's some standouts and i like it better than both presence and outdoor for sure... and then we didnt go with Coda for obvious reason, but there's stuff i like on that one too!

[@jonblackers4339]

The cover art I never got or liked. Wish they had put a groupshot of the band on the front. Always liked the one, Knebworth but that was later, where they stood in some field. Wasnt the grouppic in front of the classroom PRESENCE era? ITTO art work and bullshitting around with slightly differing covers was really annoying.PG had a great cover. HOTH was weird and TODAY it would have berated as paedophilia.

[@mikek8553]

So you mean In Through the Crap Door is better than this?

[@MexicanradioDJ]

I think first of all we can't ignore the elephant in the room. CODA is the worst album to carry the Zeppelin name. At least to me. We know its circumstances but it is still an official release and not a compilation. Personally I would put In through the outdoor and Houses of the Holy lower as well. It was for years my favourite Zeppelin album, which now goes to Zeppelin III. Achilles last stand is one of the true great rock songs and almost a template for hard rock in the 1980s. I actually love Nobodys fault but mine. Tea for one is a great blues song which I do actually love it. In through the Out door doesn't have a single outstanding track and for me a step down. Zeppelin post IV were in decline to me. The exception is Physical graffiti. But it drags and let us be honest they were using left overs to fill out side 4. I was so pleased they revisited For your life at the 02 gig. Is it perfect, well far from it but not their worst and considering the drugs and disfuction in the band from '76 onwards it is no surprise they were in decline.

[@thecontrarians2438]

Ya we purposefully left CODA off the list, as its basically a compilation of outtakes and stuff.. though... Martin actually likes CODA a lot so if we included it, we may have gone with Presence anyway. To be honest though the first convo we had about it i said, so we're doing CODA? but we ended up putting that one aside.

[@dawnthechaldean5377]

Presence only has two songs worthy of the name Led Zeppelin. Too bad there wasn't a studio fire that could have saved the world from this disappointing release. I suppose its only saving grace is that it doesn't have as much derivative material as some of their earliest releases. I would rather listen to Led Zeppelin borrow heavily from blues icons with the finally release sounding well-performed and emotionally powerful. I think that means I agree that it is their WORST album. To be nice, I will say I love "Achilles Last Stand" and would rank it higher than many songs from their top albums.

[@thecontrarians2438]

I agree, and it's a good thing there wasnt a fire because they we wouldnt even have Achilles last stand! Thanks for the comment!

[@dawnthechaldean5377]

@@thecontrarians2438 Actually, I said it was too bad there wasn't a studio fire. I envision the two good songs being salvaged and looking like soggy, black seaweed that could be dried out to make the final cut. All of the other songs were licked by the flames and mercifully burned to a crisp in my fantasy. :-)

[@jonblackers4339]

Yeah, and 50% of Rainbow Rising was selfindulgent shit or throw aways. Come on!

[@metaleyez1]

I agree. Finaly. My best - Led Zeppelin I

[@thecontrarians2438]

I LOVE Zep 1, Zep 1 gets some bad comments too but boy did they have a fantastic run of albums didnt they?

[@atlasking6110]

Presence is a thousand times better than In Through the Out Door

[@thecontrarians2438]

lol right, can't disagree too much with your point about cheesy lyrics

[@robbjj1]

ittod is a great lp..i reather like coda too Presence is a dude for me,

[@kevinputry5655]

As much as I have to agree that this album could have been much better and in spite of a couple of killer tracks(Achilles Last Stand and Nobody's Fault But Mine) I can't rank this one at the bottom. For me the worst is In Through The Outdoor. Too much pop on that album for my taste and not nearly enough rocking. Sure, Presence had some mediocre and some lame tracks but In Through The Outdoor has never grown on me. I've always found that one a bit irritating.

[@FundamentalsUK]

Each to their own , it’s one of my favs. 🤘🏻

[@keitha.563]

Physical graffiti is a great album but it's pointed to because of Kashmir . The Rover is the best on that album.

[@matthewashman1406]

Its there best album musically i believe. The interplay between PageJones,Bonzo is first rate

[@carlosabad6596]

Totally disagreed on Hots on for nowhere. Bonham shines on that song.

[@drew.reviews]

The critic quote that said it dies after Achilles Last Stand is extremely short sighted. Nobody's Fault and For Your Life are strong tunes.

[@thecontrarians2438]

Agreed, it's not a bad album we rated quite high for a "worst album" and we really paid for even doing this episode in the comments!

[@drew.reviews]

@@thecontrarians2438 nah, you guys did good. This was a hard one to tackle. I might have went with ITTOD , but it's all subjective. Keep up the good work.

[@thecontrarians2438]

@@drew.reviews Thank you!!!

[@andreijurca5546]

Tea for one is the standout track for me...Candy store rock and hots of nowhere are not that bad

[@markhaselow8315]

Not quite accurate, Martin. They played For Your Life live on the Celebration Day O2 concert in 2007.

[@jonblackers4339]

Didnt Page/Plant play TEA FOR ONE?

[@jukeboxcowboy]

It's III...No, wait...Hear me out...and don't keep reading this unless you want led Zeppelin III possibly spoiled for you forever. But when I think of Led Zeppelin III, the first thing that comes to mind is that annoyingly noisy kick drum pedal. Bonham used the same squeaky-ass Speed King kick pedal on other albums, but it's most noticable on "Since I've Been Loving You". Ever since noticing it, it's all I can hear. It drives me insane; Here's an album with some of their best performances, some of their best songs, some of their best lyrics, and "squeak squeak squeak squeak squeak squeak...." Every time the album is remastered, they take another whack at getting rid of that squeak, but it just won't disappear. Modern technology has failed us. We can send a spaceship to Mars, but we still can't fix that stupid squeaky kick pedal on led Zeppelin III.

[@thecontrarians2438]

Lol I stopped reading, jk I’ll be listening now for that squeaky pedal!! Thanks Jukebox Cowboy!

[@jukeboxcowboy]

@@thecontrarians2438 Read at your own risk: " The squeak of the pedal is audible in the following Led Zeppelin recordings: 'Since I've Been Loving You', 'The Ocean', 'The Rain Song', 'Houses of the Holy', 'Ten Years Gone', 'Bonzo's Montreux' and the live version of 'I Can't Quit You Baby' on Coda and 'All My Love' on In Through The Out Door. Jimmy Page has commented on the squeaking: "The only real problem I can remember encountering was when we were putting the first boxed set together. There was an awfully squeaky bass drum pedal on 'Since I've Been Loving You'. It sounds louder and louder every time I hear it! [laughs]. That was something that was obviously sadly overlooked at the time.""

[@bernardmaasdijk734]

III is a great album. The first 4 tracks are of a consistently high quality and very varied. A squeaky drum pedal is not going to spoil that. Since I found out, some 20 years ago, what it was I always listen for that squeak at the start of "Since...". It doesn't bother me.

[@terrytheman3317]

For your worst album series...you should add Queen's Hot Space

[@jukeboxcowboy]

Reckon it's among their best.

[@jonblackers4339]

Imagine if Zepp would have sucked as much in the 80s as QUEEN did?

[@zodiac6968]

Iv'e been a Led Zeppelin fan since 1980, my least fave album is Houses of the Holy.

[@thecontrarians2438]

That one was up for contention but honestly I don’t really hate any Zeppelin album

[@troymasters3315]

Can't say I agree but that's fine. Everyone has their own opinions. In Through The Outdoor takes the album as worst album for me. It doesn't gell but that's my opinion.

[@thecontrarians2438]

Ya we took a lot of abuse for this episode, thanks for not piling on!

[@dannyjoebrown4611]

"Achiles Last Stand" might be the best song they ever did, which is saying something. And "Nobody's Fault" is the heaviest thing they ever did. The bluesy track is pretty good. The rest all seems to just slide into itself as one long forgettable song that smells like too much smack. It's their "Technical Ecstasy" but with even more filler.

[@dannyjoebrown4611]

I'm sorry Martin, but you're wrong. Now drop, and give the group 20 Bonzo pushups. BEGIN! I still remember the first time I heard "Nobody's Fault" and closing my eyes and seeing a blue neon spider web extending for infinity...man, that's Page making a sonic deal with the devil right there, and I was on board no matter where it went. I was in the back of a 1978 Monte Carlo and WEBN was playing it out of Cincinnati. To this day that song makes me throw up the horns and bray like a man beast.

[@KowankoMusic]

Have to agree with your take on this - it's Jimmy's album and he was operating nowhere near the peak of his powers. People tend to dump on In Through but I think that album benefits from JPJ's taking the reins and adding some fresh new aspects to the band's sound ("Carouselambra" is an unfairly overlooked epic). Presence has two killer tracks for sure, but the rest is kind of a bore.

[@thecontrarians2438]

Yep I agree, Presence is about 2 songs and the rest is practically filler. Thanks for the comment!

[@Baz63]

Well you go against Jimmy Page's thoughts on this album. For me one of their best and certainly better than 'In Through Out Of The Door'.

[@francoisjus]

No acoustic track = no good Led Zep album ? It might be a good clue...

[@thecontrarians2438]

you're on to something!

[@shoominati23]

No one is even going to name CODA as their worst .. I know , I know .. it's technically a collection of unreleased material

[@stilettos9]

My absolute favorite led zeppelin album! And I hate physical graffiti! And houses of the holy!

[@painless465]

If you like John Bonham embracing the "funk",you will LOVE Presence. I disagree about "Hots on for Nowhere",I think it's one of their catchiest tunes,even funkier than Trampled Underfoot. Side one as a whole to me is all killer and no filler. Im only not crazy about "candystore rock" and "tea for one",which sounds like a weaker "Since Ive been Loving You". I would certainly prefer to ;isten to it over "in Through the Outdoor"or even "Led Zeppelin II". I really dont find Rocks a much better album than this frankly,although I do like it a lot. Agents of Fortune neither,so Zeppelin was still clutching the mantle in '76!

[@bathtubgeorge]

In Through the Outdoor, for me, was the weakest of the LZ albums, but after watching this I may have to change that view, because for many years, probably decades even, I have questioned this one, often putting it down to "well, I'm just not into this right now" so it would not last long on the turntable. How they cane have such highs as "Achillies Last Stand" and "Nobody's Fault But Mine" to the lows, everything else, is mind boggling. But perhaps because the rest of the record is rather weak they tend to stand out like giants.

[@stevemcnary7963]

In Thru the Outdoor has only 1 good song & the rest should've been on a Robert Plant solo album. In The Evening is the only song that could make Presence.

[@thecontrarians2438]

Caroselabra and All of my Love are good too, ITTOD grooves a bit more then presence and tries a few things where I find Presence stakes out familiar territory but ya, either album could land at the bottom for sure.

[@vbassone]

@Martin Popoff Well Martin, with all the STUPID and MISINFORMED "views" you have put forth, you are CLEARLY NOT the "metal swami." Sorry dude.

[@vbassone]

@@thecontrarians2438 "ITTOD grooves more than Presence"????????? REALLY??? Some of the greatest funky grooves ZEPPELIN EVER RECORDED ARE ON PRESENCE. You couldn't be more wrong...

[@thecontrarians2438]

@@vbassone lol thanks again for letting us know, we can always count on you!

[@danielvysocky2716]

Presence may contain the greatest electric playing of Page's entire BUT it's about the actual songs, which Presence really doesn't have.

[@thecontrarians2438]

Agreed, a couple of standouts and some forgettable tracks, a subpar effort for Led Zeppelin for songwriting

[@dickwhiskey8041]

Loved Martin's comment about "Tea For One" collapsing into the blues. 😂

[@jimhutchins2893]

Led Zeppelin III is the most disappointing, weakest album to me. Despite containing 3 songs I love, Immigrant Song, Since I've Been Loving You, and That's the Way; it also contains the weakest songs that I rarely listen to( Friends, Out on the Tiles, Tangerine) , including the worst Zep song of all times, Hat's Off to Roy Harper. I listen to the entire Presence album straight through, whereas I cannot do that with LZ 3.

[@thecontrarians2438]

Ya good points, and Achilles last stand might be the best overall songs from both albums.

[@stilettos9]

Plus, I absolutely love song remains the same as the best live album too. So I totally disagree with you Martin on this occasion, which is rare!

[@finlaycowan3681]

Surely In through the Out Door is the worst... It was really a John paul Jones album and the rest of the band just phoned it in. Presence contains Achilles Heel which many fans/ pundits say is Bonhams finest moment ? And...hell... the rest of the album is consistently brilliant.

[@thecontrarians2438]

Ya Achilles is the stand out one for me in almost the whole catalog even, its right up in my top ten songs... I've been mentioned in the comments that really the discussion we had was which was the worst, Martin liked ITTOD a little more and I liked Houses a little more, so out of the three we ranked at the bottom, we settled on Presence. but we've given it the highest rating of any "worst" album we've done. Thanks for the comment!

[@johng.7560]

Nobody's Fault But Mine is incredible, and Achilles Last Stand is really good. After that I don't really care too much for anything else. I don't care for LZ III or Presence, and they are my least favorite. It's really hard to see either III or Presence being considered anything other than the bottom of the pack.

[@dirkworld]

Ha, my favorite Led Zeppelin album for several reasons. One: they recorded it fast, under many obstacles and health woes. Its Bonham heavy and so completely original. There is none of their plagiarism or cherry picking of old blues numbers. Achilles Last Stand / nobodies fault but mine are among the best things they've ever done. Its stripped , raw Zeppelin.

[@thecontrarians2438]

ya you're right, we still rated it pretty high for a "worst" album, and we've definitely paid for calling it the "worst" in the comments lol thank you!

[@dirkworld]

@@thecontrarians2438 LOL, I think its Lose / Lose whenever using "worst" in any album context . Except for "hot space" :)

[@keitha.563]

For your life is that the biggest hidden gem Period!

[@jaredjacoby4621]

Presence is easily my least favorite LZ album. In Through the Outdoor was a huge improvement.

[@robitaillecopeland1996]

it's a lazy and mailed in record. It's not collaborative at all. Like mentioned, it's an album made because they had time to fill and kill. Only three songs are really worth putting on a Led Zeppelin album i.e. 'Achilles Last Stand', 'Nobody's Fault But Mine' and 'For Your Life which are very strong offerings. But even then, John Paul Jones is nowhere to be found and imho he's the glue and unsung hero of the band so his omission is glaring. Easily the worst Led Zeppelin album and tbh not a very good album despite three great songs and them being a legendary band.

[@thecontrarians2438]

Thank you!! It's nice to have a few folks on our side! :) Agree with everything you said

[@keitha.563]

For your life awesome monster riff.

[@63mckenzie]

Presence always struck me as an album full off great opening licks then the songs went nowhere. That said, it is still a millions times better than ITTOD!!!!!

[@abdulbasheer8349]

In thru the outdoor scores 7 for me. The rest score 7.5 and above.

[@thecontrarians2438]

Still pretty good for a band to have not a stinker in the whole catalog!

[@byzantineification]

"For Your Life" has grown into being one of my all time favorite LZ songs ever... that riff in the middle section especially... having said that that "The Crunge" from HOTH and "Hot Dog" from ITTO cant stand at all

[@andreijurca5546]

1. I 2. II 3. III 4. VI 5. PG 6. ITTOD 7. Presence 8. HOTH 9. CODA

[@neillenet291]

Worst Led Zeppelin album? Out through the in Door. Presence is a great album.

[@thecontrarians2438]

ya we paid for this in the comments

[@neillenet291]

@@thecontrarians2438 we all like what we like. There really isn't a wrong opinion when it comes to our individual tastes.

[@thecontrarians2438]

@@neillenet291 thank you!

[@stiffrichard2816]

They didn't go into the studio intending it to be a commercial hit. They did it for themselves and it's a hugely innovative and influential album. Achillies Last Stand was the blueprint for 80's metal, Nobody's Fault and Hots On For Nowhere are classics, and Tea For One really sucks you into a dark, melancholy blues mood. There is some filler but not it's bad. Physical Graffiti had more.