The Convergence of Science and Spirituality (Part One) | Donald Hoffman & Rupert Spira

In the latest Rupert Spira Podcast episode Simon Mundie moderates a fascinating discussion on science and spirituality with Rupert and cognitive scientist Donald Hoffman.
The conversation includes topics such as: Why is the concept of space-time is doomed? How close are we to a theory of everything? Does the perennial philosophy need an upgrade? Can maths describe reality? Why does the one localise? and Is science finally catching up with what the great spiritual traditions have been telling us for centuries?
You can follow Donald Hoffman on Twitter @donalddhoffman
You follow Simon Mundie on Twitter and Instagram @simonmundie
Timestamps:
0:00 The Case Against Reality
3:00 The Hard Problem Of Consciousness
9:52 Why Are Most Scientists Materialists?
12:54 Who Is Qualified To Make Observations About The Nature Of Reality?
15:29 The Hard Problem Of Matter
20:33 No-One Has Ever Found Matter
25:10 Space-Time Is Doomed
32:48 Quantum Theory Is Not Fundamental Either
34:03 Why Is The Fact That Space-Time Is Doomed Not On The News?
40:57 The Real Meaning Of The Word Illusion
47:40 Exploring Other Dimensions
57:14 What Are Conscious Agents?
1:04:06 One Consciousness
1:07:32 Infinite Infinities
1:12:19 Why Does The One Localise?
1:15:46 Could There Be A ‘why’ On The Relative Level?
1:23:48 Interface Theory
1:36:05 A Theory Of Everything
1:41:06 A Convergence Of Science And Spirituality
1:49:46 The Implications Of The Perennial Philosophy
1:55:51 Let Go Of Thought
2:01:08 Seeing Through The Illusion Of The Separate Self
2:10:08 Thoughts, Fears And Beliefs
2:14:46 Walking The Talk
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[@mrnibelheim]

We are so privileged to be witnessing such an important moment in human history: physics, philosophy, neuroscience, cognitive psychology and spirituality are converging in a unique way for the first time, ever. This is a Copernican shift!

[@my3rs307]

​@SIMPLY HUMAN do you know what you are talking about?

[@my3rs307]

@SIMPLY HUMAN you're probably a materialist ?

[@my3rs307]

@SIMPLY HUMAN ok, and I'm an idealist

[@michalrusin6503]

@SIMPLY HUMAN some examples of those absurd ideas ?

[@michalrusin6503]

@SIMPLY HUMAN if you speak about consciousness then what is the problem in throwing things that appear in its field !?

[@skyotter3317]

This is one of the most amazing conversations I’ve heard in my lifetime. I also salute the brilliant humility of these men

[@Dhorpatan]

Kiss their butts a little more. Kneel and kiss their shoes too.

[@Revalanga]

Nemini dubium est!

[@Jamesgarethmorgan]

Me three. This is life-changing for me.

[@dododojo1931]

@@Jamesgarethmorgan Me too; the synthesis of science and spirituality, particularly conveyed in such a simple, humble way is absolutely life-changing and hopefully world-changing ❤

[@darylsprake8617]

The end of thought leads quickly to physical death and then reawaking without continuous thought.what rupert is talking about is just a trick of the mind.he is a fool

[@david203]

About the fear of death, discussed right at the end: after many years of practicing Transcendental Meditation, six years ago the occurrence of Stage 4 colon cancer started a year of treatments that gave me constant feedback that I had lost all fear of death. From the moment of diagnosis through all the treatments I found myself enjoying the process as an interesting adventure, free of any anxiety, worries, or fears. There were times when the pain was almost unbearable, but I simply asked for pain medication, which worked nicely most of the time. Never did I wish for something different to happen; I accepted everything. I especially loved my devoted caregivers and my cancer support group. I agree with Hoffman that effective meditation really works to help us enjoy life. I have fortunately survived the cancer and have been free of it for over five years.

[@BeauSmithFtl]

What a beautiful awareness. Thank you for sharing your experience. Blessings to you.

[@pantherstealth1645]

I feel i am on the same path as you except they won’t give pain meds. No meds period. When i was 18 at my first non pediatric doctor, had me fill out the form and it asked if i have a history of drug use. I misunderstood and put YES because i had used magic mushrooms and weed a couple times. Since then, they have falsely marked me as an addict and will not medically assist me in any way. I am 40 now. Life is suffering and for every negative we experience here, we will exist in the exact opposite amount of the positive direction. We are creating the definitions and parameters of the truth of ultimate reality.❤

[@david203]

@@pantherstealth1645 I feel for you. It can be difficult to find a doctor who will listen and act as a proponent in getting your claim verified and your record changed. Keep looking. I am fairly certain that it is not acceptable in medical practice to deny pain medications to those in pain.

[@animesh7296]

Really the same thing happens with Ramana Maharishi, He refused to take anesthesia for his cancer operation in Chennai and Doctors operated on him. Later he just said that he was witnessing his operation with the doctors.

[@1031jmurray]

I'm looking forward to death. I can't wait to see what's next

[@lindaross783]

Years ago I was listening to Dr. Hoffman speak about the codes behind the form, it was about a chair I believe. I suddenly had a shift and saw the simulation we are in to the extent I was able to get it.I was working on my thesis and my world flipped upside down. Guess I was ready to see it. Thank you Dr. Hoffman. Later I found Rupert Spira and there's more peace on the horizon. Two of my favorite teachers and in the same place!!!

[@warmrainofficial]

Could not believe my eyes when this came up in my feed!!!! The two people who have had the biggest influence on my development in the last year in convo together This was a beautiful way to spend 2h28m & 58s of my life

[@lindawilliams7302]

Have you also listened to Tom Campbell and his my Big Toe (theory of everything ) concept ?

[@84sahi]

I know right.

[@ACIM_]

@@84sahi watched this three times so far 🌀☀️🌀☀️🌀

[@tl3684]

Without a doubt, this has been the most impactful conversations I've ever listened to....and thank goodness we didn't lose Mr. Hoffman last year.

[@scottbarrett1763]

What happened to him last year?

[@AuroCords]

​@@scottbarrett1763covid, he talks about it near the end of the conversation

[@jmerdsoy]

​@@scottbarrett1763my question as well

[@ivazic225]

@@scottbarrett1763 he got sick from COVID and almost died.

[@Jamesgarethmorgan]

@@ivazic225 Lucky break for all of us.

[@Abdulralbader]

I had to pause the video half way through and give credit to Simon and his brilliant moderation. Thank you for the beautiful way your facilitated this conversation.

[@soleknight3212]

Only 20 mins in and ABSOLUTELY BRILLIANT. Both these guys said it. You can't capture the truth with the mind. Ever. Which is why they will never scientifically find out what lays behind the 'big bang'. Go silent without a single quiver of thought and you have your answer. God bless

[@Shadowdaddy87]

This bad news and good news for science. On the one hand, discovery and pealing back the layers of reality can potentially go on forever. But on the other hand, the final layer cannot ever be reached.

[@soleknight3212]

@@Shadowdaddy87 Indeed. I'm a scientist by background and all I can say is that, it's fun.....for a while! :)

[@Aetherfield]

So does it mean nothing that humanity is destroying the the planet & it’s de-evolving inhabitants? How do we enter the “road not taken,” where the beings who saw beyond the programming, but lost the race here dwell?

[@soleknight3212]

@@Aetherfield I hear you - one can still play the game of the matrix and wake up inside it. But ultimately it is still always within the wider nature of Christ Consciousness, which is your true being and your ultimate liberation.

[@Aetherfield]

@@soleknight3212 I do wonder how to exit the cave of this matrix. It does feel like a trap of reincarnation for eternity. Scientism itself, seems a trap. Once we have subscribe to it, can we ever truly reach Christ consciousness from here?

[@BigJack512]

I‘be listened to hundreds of conversations with Don, Rupert, Bernardo and others. For me this is perhaps the most clear and impactful synthesis of idealism, non-duality, and current scientific inquiry yet. 🙏

[@chiefcheeser]

The interviewer is absolutely over the moon with how good this is!

[@stevenkingneff]

What a privilege to listen these two. I practice passage meditation and use the following passage attributed to Sankara from around 700CE. It seems to speak to this discussion. “ I am reality without beginning...I have no part in the illusion of ‘I’ and ‘you’, ‘this’ and ‘that’. I am ...one without a second, bliss without end, the unchanging, eternal truth. I dwell in all beings as the pure consciousness, the ground of all phenomena, internal and external. I am both the enjoyer and that which is enjoyed. In the days of my ignorance, I used to think of these as separate from myself. Now I know that I am all.”

[@pastryman7324]

What is the name of the book from which this passage is from?

[@stevenkingneff]

@@pastryman7324 It was not in a book. I first saw it mentioned in Robert Lanza's book "Biocentricity...". I was reading "Passage Meditation" by Eknath Easwaran and this passage really spoke to my thoughts about science and spirituality. Hope this helps.

[@derrymullins-fp8pl]

Brilliant

[@Heaven351]

You mean Adi guru shankaracharya? Yes he gave Advaita Vedanta , non dualism

[@footballfactory8797]

This conversation needs sharing to everyone on the planet. ❤

[@rijumatiwallis7597]

Dear Rupert, Don and Simon, thank you for a profound, stimulating and astonishing conversation, I am very grateful! It's amazing that in western philosophy Kant realised that space, time and causality are projections of our representation of the world nearly 300 years ago and through the work of you and others, the world is just beginning to catch up with him! Of course the Buddha and many great spiritual teachers have been directing us towards these insights for much longer. It's wonderful that the best of scientific and spiritual traditions are able to come together in this way. May all three of you continue for a long time in this important work.

[@tajzikria5307]

Absolutely brilliant!

[@TommyOnPiano]

Glad your health is better Donald. Love you all.

[@dazlemwithlovelight]

No words can match this sharing. THANK YOU ALL. Cheers from a retired soldier down under.💓💞💕

[@Meditation409]

This is a massive blow to physicalists and materialism. We literally are seeing a new door slowly open in science in other words a brand new foundation to science is forming. It's an awesome time to be here and witness this as it slowly unfolds!! ❤

[@84sahi]

Absolutely soon science can prove God the universal infinite consiousness infact exists and God is viewing the world through our localized minds of 8 billion. 😊

[@paulkeogh7077]

At 1:19:00 minutes Don asks “why does the one localise” into seemingly separate conscious agents. Rupert says we cannot know the answer but I wonder whether it’s the necessary condition for the One to be real: because the One is the many and only through each separate agent, does the One constitute reality. Another way of expressing this is to imagine that from the perspective of wholeness the many parts appear as one: like looking at the Earth from space, an astronaut sees one unified “object” although it has innumerable parts all contributing to and contextualised by the whole. For the One to be fundamental and the ultimate reality it must be simultaneously every “thing” and no “thing”. It must be unity and individuality, non-duality and duality. Rupert is spot on when he says, that fundamental consciousness is “that” within which everything manifests, from which all things take form and by which all forms come to know themselves their ultimate ground of being, reality or the One.

[@LifeDeathandStuff]

This is amazing! I feel lucky and blessed beyond belief that I was born in an era where the internet exists and is accessible to almost every one and I get to watch a video like this! Brillant minds, sharing their knowledge with open hearts. Thank you. 💙👏

[@andrewtyler4480]

I’m so relieved by the the findings of every major field of study and what we already knew deep down; we are eternal. Consciousness is a fundamental element of the universe. What a wonderful time to be alive! 💯

[@versoturner5777]

I'm glad you pulled through Donald Hoffman

[@HoscoFelix]

Great conversation, a meeting of two beautiful minds. Very well moderated too, an excellent balance of taking the guests' thoughts to the next logical step while being constructively provocative and keeping it grounded. Also, Mr Spira has such a poetic way of speaking that he's a pleasure to listen to no matter what he's saying!

[@kyxxit3664]

Rupert Spira, Your perspective of the perennial philosophy when compared to Buddhism, etc. is brilliant. It's made an amazing difference in my life. Thank you

[@alheidis]

Buddhism has said this for hundreds of years, and science is just catching up. It sounds scary to think that things don’t exist, but in fact it is liberating! It does not mean that there is no reality, but we see/hear/smell/taste/touch and think only appearances of the underlying reality, which is mind (consciousness).

[@sandramynard1046]

@@usr909 science and spirituality are opposites. science can’t explain it and indeed deny it.

[@haxstir]

" It sounds scary to think that things don’t exist, but in fact it is liberating!" Be careful as this can lead to thinking that doesn't take care of the context in which it exists and it does exist for a reason. At some point it becomes unnecessary, say for instance when we worry too much but even then worrying too much might be an indicator of something to examine that needs examining.

[@jr6200]

To have such easy access to brilliant conversations by such top men in their fields, as the internet is now providing, could never have been accomplished in the past. It's a kind of miracle, though it's now an everyday matter. Wonder how long colleges will last in their current form? I never heard anything like this conversation in all the years I spent with my degrees.

[@plumeria66]

Science is an antiquated monolith when you think about it. They can’t revise their textbooks easily without causing massive uproar. This is with governing as well.

[@antwillis01]

Beautiful trio working in harmony. Let us all raise to it's frequency in this grand piece of music. Let the crescendo be utterly amazing to behold when the world is all listening.

[@oliviapendergast1]

153K views is amazing. That many people interested...or maybe a few of us have watched it 100x? This conversation is amazing. I'm hanging on by my fingernails with Donald but experientially "understand" Rupert's words. Love hearing both sides.

[@jazzit251]

Spirituality and science looking in the same direction means true progress and deep knowledge unfolding! ❤ Much love to both of these human gems

[@anitastewart4359]

Two of my favorite great Minds coming together discussing one of my favorite topics with so many amazing insights, thanks to both and would love more of the conversation to continue.

[@Your-True-Self]

Wow, I started watching out of interest and couldn't stop until the end. Rupert I love your work and your gift of communication. Don I hadn't heard before but the combination was amazing, well done Simon for the choreography. Brilliantly and thoughtfully presented, Thank you

[@levanmelikishvili4373]

No words. Absolutely mesmerizing! I felt privileged to have an opportunity to listen to such a wonderful conversation 🙏

[@gentlemanx7987]

Immensely fascinating. My mind sucks that up as if it was sweet, sweet juice. 😁Thank you. 🍀

[@AdrianSlo]

Very nice explanation of the VR headset and "reality isn't real"

[@versoturner5777]

This video is so important. I hope many really consider what was said.

[@cynfowler1]

Yes , I discovered Don Hoffman just as COVID hit. And later found Rupert about 2 years later. Now we have 2science based thinkers talking with the key spiritual communicator of our time!. The 2 science based thinkers I refer : Don and Bernardo Kastrup , of course!

[@cynfowler1]

2Science based thinkers being Don and Bernardo teaming up with Rupert.s Direct Path! Perfection in it’s oneness!

[@waynzwhirled6181]

How do you not love these two gentleman, both figuratively and literally. This presentation is a wonderful gift to your listeners.

[@fionamcmillan7147]

I am so happy and excited....when I listened last night to Donald talking to Lex Fridman I wrote a comment suggesting they check out the work of Rupert Spira....and low and behold when i awake the universe has been at work! A FB link showed me they had already met. This is super exciting. I am a comparative theologian writing my dissertation about NDEs, altered states of consciousness and Vajrayana philosophy. Research into Consciousness absolutely needs to be inter disciplinary.... scientists, religious studies, philosophy of religion scholars, process theologians and experts in dharma studies, need to have discussions together because we need many minds here, many perspectives to understand how consciousness operates. Blessings to everyone especially Rupert and Don. Thank you.

[@binathere2574]

I'm fairly positive an NDE is exactly the same as an OBE.

[@grzegkania]

The whole conversation is absolutely amazing, but if I were to choose one topic only, perhaps it would be their remarks on the perennial philosophy, which is like the very essence of mankind's spiritual wisdom, but again - as both Rupert and Donald emphasize - it is only a hand pointing at the Moon and not the Moon itself.

[@Jiv509]

Where science is just beginning to wonder, the Hindu scriptures(Vedas) have it all and beyond. I am happy to see that science is confirming that the sages/Vedas are correct/valid and not based on belief. The filter Mr. Hoffman speaks of is Maya I think. Maya veils the reality and projects this world. Thank you all for this enriching conversation🙏

[@idrearamacirmtamta1293]

So great to listen to these two in conversation 😌

[@nivedithakamath9388]

Thank you Rupert, Don and Simon. Feeling so grateful for this video 🙏🎊

[@tiffanyjoleenbowserdimeco6294]

This conversation is a profound gift to humanity. Breathtaking. Thank you gentlemen.🌹

[@shubharao9741]

Wonderful interaction of spirituality and science

[@Sonaurea]

Just awesome to see it unfold

[@mutloppi]

This was wonderful, thank you!

[@NectareanSpirit]

This was simply spectacular. What a treat. Deep gratitude to all three of you gentlemen🙏♥

[@Christoth2012]

Absolutely fantastic. Is the rift that Thomas Aquinas created between science and spirituality finally beginning to heal?

[@englandw]

All things in perspective, I believe we can qualify this conversation as in the realm of historic, given the timing of these two illumined minds, bridging science and consciousness in pioneering ways.

[@ferisons]

What an amazing discussion. loved it. These kind of 'science meets spirituality' talks are my favorite type of discussions. If you enjoyed this, you might also like the two talks with Rupert Spira & Bernardo Kastrup, and the Dialogue between Rupert Spira and Swami Sarvapriyananda.

[@elisabethhgelid6969]

The reward is the happiness and love of unity with truth. Truth is consciousness which we are and never can be separated from. This is so beautiful 😂❤

[@LB-W]

What a gift. To see these two beautiful thinkers create a moment of expansion past their limited words. I believe I have been witness to something very special. Thank you to all three of you. To conduct a conversation of such depth was spectacular.

[@michaelmitchell2143]

Rupert is the man

[@claudesilverio677]

I really like this Interview. I meditate more than 20 years. Hoffmanns Theories are great. This is the first scientific concept I can agree, which confirms my meditation and psychodelic experience. 🎉❤

[@ckunert1]

Such a gift you are Simon for bringing these voices to us. So many people nay-say technology, but this is one of the prime examples of being able to CHOOSE what we pay attention to. As Edward R. Morrow said in regard to radio, "This instrument can teach, it can illuminate; yes, and even it can inspire. But it can do so only to the extent that humans are determined to use it to those ends. Otherwise, it's nothing but wires and lights in a box.”

[@goatfahter]

This is PRICELESS !! , I'm grateful to be in this space and time to watch this

[@AwareOfBeingAware]

Pure joy. Thank you so much

[@lindal.7242]

We need a further evolution of mind in order to adopt what Mr. Spira is saying about how we're all one. Newer more aware generations will have to arrive before the knowledge and truth of this is adopted and implemented for a more altruistic world.

[@pablokagioglu2546]

Brilliant talk. Donald and Rupert are amazing. I so agree with Rupert, paraphrasing, “if you are a hammer, everything looks like a nail”. I’ve always wondered if we have the “language” or the “mind” to figure out what’s on the “other side” beyond the world we see. Can anyone figure out the “5 dimension” (or higher) with our 4-dimensional brain? Is it all down to math? Exciting time for Physics.

[@athena3865]

Oh my gosh Don, how horrific for you; I can relate very well, different circumstances. I am reading your book now. So glad you are still with us. Retired professional cardiac nurse, here. Namaste'.

[@MrBjornHarvold]

Reminds me of those epic conversations between David Bohm and Krishnamurti. Thank you for this.

[@monicamackrizz5641]

What a privilege ! A wonderful conversation! I have learned so much! Thank you so much for such an important talk ! So important for Humanity! 🙏🏼

[@sanjivkumar8588]

Donalds ideas are great. He is truly utilising Vedic knowledge for present

[@a1librarian]

i’m so thrilled. i’ve been wanting to hear these two in conversation ❤❤❤

[@phaerocon11]

Man!!! What an interview!! I'm surprised it didn't break the internet...

[@jofbron1447]

This is absolutely incredible

[@bensmithy4279]

Dayum never have I ever rewinded and re-listened to a video so much in my life. So much to take in and so much to process. ❤

[@baberraza4231]

mind blowing conversation. what a treat to see converging Donald/Rupert thoughts on reality and consciousness

[@kkandthegirls6363]

I'm honored to be able to witness a discussion between such extraordinary and visionary people. I feel like I've been given a glimpse of tomorrow's potential, and I'm inspired. How lucky are we to live amongst and be able to learn from these people? Thank you.

[@olibirkett331]

I had a near death experience many years ago, and ever since I woke up I've known I'm not my body. It is good to hear wiser people back my experience.

[@futureselfnow]

Very cool. I watch a lot of NDE’s on KZbin.

[@binathere2574]

OBE s will get you there. 😊

[@otptm]

Thank you for sharing this wonderful video

[@jonathanmoore5619]

I am he as you are he as you are me And we are all together... Thank you John.

[@elisabethhgelid6969]

And the unity with truth is completed in every babystep towards it.

[@natarajma]

The discovery of the amplitudehedron reminds me of the vedic concept of Hiranyagarbha. And i believe it's possible to 'cognize' Hiranyagarbha when in states very close to pure consciousness. I'd love to hear Rupert and Donald talk about this more. It's absolutely fascinating.

[@donlimuti8659]

Donald Hoffman has opened the boundaries of science and philosophy. He has also made KZbin a more worthwhile destination. I send him Spira and Simon all the agents I can muster.

[@ilianaramirez7041]

What a great interview! ❤❤

[@tutorial9322]

What a great trio ❤️ thank you all 🙏🏻

[@oliviergoethals4137]

Convergence like in this talk is the uppercut fundamaterialist needs to wake up to their true nature. Thx for sharing.

[@praveenvarma1369]

Rupert, an enlightened mind see matter in a different perspective than an ignorant mind. In such a mind there is no 'I'. It needs to happen and it is not an experience (as an experience requires an experiencer). It is more of a change in focus.

[@monicaarcher7107]

the days of the debate about the hard problem of consciousness are numbered. Lovely Rupert.

[@velerina2017]

Two of my current fixations... I'd love more of them together ❤

[@MacShrike]

What an absolute pleasure to be able to experience this meeting. Thank you all! I have used recreational drugs, medical drugs (anti depressants and heart medication) and then some, to "find"/sustain/experience myself. Then I thought that being myself was the goal. Now I'm learning that trying to be yourself is actually less than what you can be. So now I'm just being, not trying it. And every time I succeed it seems; failure is an illusion. On the fear part, and the not stepping in front of the train to prove a point: A silly but true quote from a movie: "fear is an illusion, a hysterical reaction to an unknown future. But danger; danger is very real". (Love = Love) is Love.

[@sanjayseroha4219]

It is great feeling to know that science is finally catching up to what Yogis and Rishis that lived in Himalayas thousands of years ago have written in ancient Hindu spiritual text called Upanishads ❤

[@owaisahmad7841]

Love the host - he lets the guests say what they want to say without interrupting them, unlike many other famous podcast hosts.

[@safia9536]

I can appreciate Donald Hoffman's desire to utilize the tool that is mind to play via scientific study. However Rupert Spira, I appreciate the simplicity of the truth that just IS w/o question. The conundrum is that science (both technical & social science) is relentless questioning yet useful on the stage of life. Perhaps to go back and forth btwn sleep and wakefulness is the grand play on this small scale.

[@MagdiNonDuality]

The mind is in the realm of that which is created. Although creation is limitless, the created is limited and cannot fathom the totality of creation. Thus, this entire inquiry into creation can, at most, reveal that we don't know and that we cannot know. The understanding that there is no need to know goes hand in hand with the understanding that the totality is revealed in the most natural experience of awareness. Once the experience of awareness and the experience of being, of 'I am' are united into one understanding, the interior and the exterior are revealed to be one reality.

[@tanya2700]

Incredible conversation. Thank you

[@IAn0nI]

Well done Rupert and Don!

[@ElAsh-pc7fr]

Rupert and Don 🙏🙏

[@noellecuisine8912]

❤ and a sweet smile to You 3 for this beautiful conversation 😊

[@bennyskim]

Donald Hoffman is absolutely correct!

[@johnnastrom9400]

Wow! Two of my favorites. The world could sure benefit from hearing more conversations from people like these two.

[@piyadushanka]

Absolutely wonderful and awe inspiring conversation 🙏🙏🙏

[@david203]

The famous Scottish physicist John Bell was just about the only strong supporter of David Bohm's 1952 interpretation of quantum mechanics, which eliminated its nondeterminism, making it no longer a way to suggest that human consciousness has anything to do with how Nature works. The funny thing is that after David Bohm was ostracized from physics for this and his political opinions, he spent about 30 years as Jiddu Krishnamurti's associate and secretary. Bohm was always interested in nonduality himself, even though he showed how to remove the mysticism from quantum mechanics.

[@markhogan77]

Great Convo gentlemen !! Kinda makes me disappear into my own little slice of the universe 🤩

[@irenedecaso6245]

"the hard problem of matter" brilliant!!

[@robaddonizio520]

Wow. This was one of the most fascinating discussions I’ve heard in the realm of the science and non duality that I have heard yet. As I continue to walk my own path of spiritual enlightenment I am amazed to find great thoughts being wonderfully articulated!

[@tristanbrandt3886]

This has resonated with me on a level I can't express, absolutely wonderful. It wasn't mentioned other than the context of "drugs," but I wonder what either of these speakers has to say about psychedelics? Having had mushroom, and more importantly Bufo Alvarius experiences, the source they refer to is exactly that. The source of consciousness and being. During the psychedelic experiences, your finite mind is washed away and you enter source. Quite forcably in some instances, but if you can surrender, it's the most real realness I have ever felt. Although they are related to meditation, would either speaker dismiss what is felt through psychedelic experience?

[@pikiwiki]

"a lot of people don't discriminate between the core message of the Perennial Philosophy and the temporal as well as cultural temperament in which it is expressed" Extremely accurate

[@torushyperbolid7968]

Beautiful dialog! Thank you all so much for these insides!!!

[@michaelhaas401]

Seeing many compliments here, and I add my own. I have not read anything by Rupert Spira, but I have read Donald Hoffman’s A Case Against Reality. Utterly fascinating.

[@maxvanderas]

Science confirming (well, close to I hope) what many different ancient traditions have been saying for thousands of years. This is almost a class of Neo Advaita Vedanta, if you liked this talk try Swami Sarvapryananda. You can also hear some Alan Watts talking about the "Game of Hide and Seek" why Consciousness gets embodied. What Don is describing of the non-self/no-ego would agree with the description of many Gurus of what Samadhi is (the last level of the 8th Fold Path of Buddha). "Something that is an illusion doesn't imply that it is not real" this is in more than one way what Shankara described as Maya, the veil of illusion. The 1 Consciousness that Don is trying to prove and Rupert says is everything is of course the Pantheist idea of Brahman. This, to me at least, is what a 2023 conversation of secular spirituality should really sound like. Thanks for sharing.