The Corporate Treatment of LGBT Representation in Animation

[@Cartoonshi]

This was supposed to be titled "I hate Disney I hate Disney asdasfsdvc\z" but I'm currently off benadryl rn Patreon - www.patreon.com/cartoonshi Discord Server - discord.gg/Q2AMHsB Letterboxd - letterboxd.com/Cartoonshi/

[@theconductoresplin8092]

Ace? ????

[@Edmeister]

@@theconductoresplin8092 its a card you use in a standard game of Durak /s

[@SubZero-hs9xc]

Thanks for make this video

[@nicestoriesnottherealstori3006]

Did I tell you about what happened in Florida after Disney opposed the "Don't say gay" bill.

[@theconductoresplin8092]

@@Edmeister Oh ok

[@Lenny-ue8hk]

With the Ruby and Sapphire wedding, certain countries had been dubbing Ruby as male to make the relationship straight, which is why they had Ruby wear a dress and Sapphire wear a tuxedo, so it was much harder to hide it.

[@luisnavarro1614]

Gladly here in latam Ruby had a voice actress

[@daniapfel2825]

​@@luisnavarro1614Cool

[@willowshake023]

It was the case in russian dub (I'm in Ukraine, so the CN channel here is russian-speaking)

[@sierraa.bryant9322]

That’s amazing

[@stillprimethosewhoknow]

Those countries are a w

[@jeepmega629]

The Disney LGBT Guide: Step 1: Put a LGBT character in your show/tv series/movie Step 2: Make the marketing revolve around such character Step 3: Give the character such a minute role that they are easy to remove from the product in places like Russia and China, and so the product doesn't get banned there and you can still make a lot of money. Edit: WOW THIS COMMENT GOT POPULAR

[@MauricioLuigui]

The owl house

[@michaeldeguzman3852]

lightyear

[@aintnoway5005]

wish i lived in the countries where lgbtq was banned, theres no point of it in shows

[@AngelicoCiudad]

That's basically it so is why I don't blame Disney because is difficult to make profit worldwide to fit everyone culture -- US-Americans needs to know usa ain't the world.

[@tarnsanders259]

@@aintnoway5005 "Wish I lived in a place where straight representation was banned, there's no point of it in shows" see how stupid you sound?

[@privatehere3324]

Exactly I see a lot of criticism for these shows and the “last minute gay” but I clearly see with the owl house that it’s the corporations that are to blame not the creators we need to put more pressure on corporations instead of creators doing there best.

[@slevinchannel7589]

Expect more LGBT-Hate. The Daily-Wire, a known Hategroup, is Expanding. They are literally growing, not shrinking. Its that simple.

[@randomcake1435]

Voltron's situation was shit, especially when they could've written a Klance ship so much better than Allurance and get their LGBTQ+ rep in, AND satsfy the fans

[@twentyonetortas5921]

​@@randomcake1435 didn't something like this also happen to Korrasami hence why people thought their relationship was so sudden even though they wrote letters only to each other during those three years Korra and Asami were separated from each other when Korra was recovering from the poisoning

[@isabellarobinson6082]

Exactly, Dana Terrace (the creator of the owl house) said how she and her crew had to fight tooth and nail to get lgbt rep into the show only for it to get canceled 2 years into its run and before the 2nd season even finished airing.

[@nyxcat3621]

True: a lot of the time, creators are only allowed to outright say their characters are lgbt+ at the end of the show because that’s the only time the studio can’t cancel the show over it, as it’s already ending. So many “last minute gay” characters are likely characters who have been planned to be such for a while, but not allowed to actually show it.

[@GamerBoss-zz6xp]

LGBT has basically become a marketing strategy. "Implying that we have gay characters in our show will make us seem more friendly" even though that isn't entirely true at all.

[@idkidc2573]

"lgbt has become a marketing strategy" you use that word... i dont think you know what it means

[@audreyharris7643]

@@idkidc2573 why do you say that

[@Scruffy-qi3ik]

@@idkidc2573 it kind of literally is, what companies do during pride month isn’t them actually being helpful or supportive, they’re trying to get more money

[@nao-bo4yz]

we have the spending money!

[@BabyGirlTiny]

It’s less marketing and more morality.

[@officerwalter8877]

Disney be like: “Yeah this show is getting lots of critical acclaim and is loved by many, can it.” Honestly I’m more of an Amphibia person but for you owl house fans I feel for y’all.

[@aclaymushroomwithaberet7084]

thank you.

[@clashman7564]

I care about Star vs The Forces of Evil.

[@herowither12354]

Amphibia would've met the same fate if Season 3 wasn't almost completed at the time

[@cwanimations]

@@clashman7564 I feel bad for you

[@fear7126]

@@clashman7564 FUCK THAT SEASON FINALE I STILL HAVENT RECOVERED

[@yesyesyesyes4923]

I honestly got so pissed when Onward was featured in the LGBT list on Disney+ for just one line, and Owl House is pushed to the back of the section

[@garibaldibritann1240]

That is the worst bait-and-switch LGBT coverage ever done by Disney since Beauty and The Beast live action remake

[@endamcnabola]

There's an LGBT list?

[@garibaldibritann1240]

@@endamcnabola Yes, during Pride Month (or as in my country as Pancasila Day)

[@bonedude666]

Ok, yeah no. I can kinda understand why Gravity Falls is there, but that's just fucking retarded. "HeY, gUyS, tHiS mOvIe HaS lGtBq ChArAcTeRs!" "Sweet, who are they?" "This one female cop that shows up for 3 minutes who has one line mentioning her girlfriend's daughter." *"What the fu-"*

[@anangryaustralian8518]

@KnightLite I don't know the exact one but it was something about the character mention "her girlfriend and her kid" and that was it she played no part to the story and was never seen after that

[@godnkosi8879]

i won't lie, i'm not apart of the LGBT nor do i celebrate things like pride month... but seeing this kind of stuff really pisses me off, totally unfair man. everyone and everything deserves a chance.

[@ogcolumbinakinnie6556]

You are the kind of ally we need. Thank you

[@payt00n]

Sucks really, like I'd for my community to be in the show without being seen as a marketing strategy for a month than get censored a few weeks later

[@thefancybarbieharlequin]

@@ogcolumbinakinnie6556 Yes, the ally we need more of

[@Stud-Studios]

Im the same way

[@WannabeDev1]

@@payt00n same

[@Geobot3000]

Disney: Sees that LGBT representation is making them more money Also Disney: *We gotta cut that shit now!*

[@jamesthegoo7600]

Wait till this guy here's about Lightyear

[@beakslololol4347]

@@jamesthegoo7600 what

[@chadbaby1921]

@@jamesthegoo7600 hears*

[@mrlaz9011]

@@jamesthegoo7600 there are also other reasons for the movie failing

[@idkidc2573]

@@jamesthegoo7600 1 movie vs the douzens of shows that have gotten extremely popular cuz of lgbt rep

[@nathanblackburn1193]

It's important to note that while LGBTQ+ representation has gotten better (as in no longer have any remotely LGBTQ+ character as either a ridiculous stereotype or villain) better does not mean good for example getting slapped is better than being stabbed but I'd rather have neither happen, we can't get complacent and we need to hold companies like Disney to ever higher standards until they are at the level of non-LGBTQ+ standards.

[@brailianharvey-howard1207]

No

[@muntu1221]

Okay, let's be a little more clear. Getting slapped or stabbed are both, generally, negative outcomes. I'd rather have a full course meal if I'm starving, but I'm not going to say no to a slice of toast. Nobody is getting complacent. People in the industry are fighting harder than ever to get better representation in cartoons and media. With each bit of representation, it gets better on the next run. There's not really any holding Disney to a higher standard. It's a capitalist company, it's always going to fluctuate. Remember how we used to have a lot of movies in the 90's about random black families, sometimes even discussing racism? Yeah, post-9/11 Disney had almost no black characters except side characters or one lead amongst mostly white ones. Because Disney wanted to appeal to a "neutral" American demographic. We had a few things like That's So Raven and The Proud Family, but those could get booted to ABC Family in a minute if they got "too ethnic". Anyway, point is, let's stop relying on companies. Let's support the creators who are often risking their jobs and their passion projects to get this representation out there. There's plenty more representation out there that could use some uplifting, especially when it's not tied to a company that doesn't need our dollar.

[@wakkaseta8351]

You're clearly living under a rock, because LGBTQ+ characters are going right back to being ridiculous stereotypes, and it's people like you who think it's still this grand struggle for survival if you don't have them shoved into everything that regressed things. The flaming queen caricature is back in the form of "YaSs QuEeN sLaY" characters.

[@Jasper08th]

@@muntu1221 Spot on

[@Dragonrider1227]

There is a LOT of room for improvement but like I said in my own comment, I come from a time when the lesbians in Sailor Moon had to be dubbed as "cousins" so the idea that there is even this much is actually still a big deal from my perspective.

[@kristofgriffin384]

I honestly don't care if a movie or show features LGBT characters or not. If the story and characters are good, then I don't mind it. Rather, my beef is with the fact they flaunt homosexual characters as some sort of selling point, rather than just being an aspect of the character. They're treated less like characters and more like circus attractions that we must see. While at the same time using them as a shield to dismiss any sort of criticism with the show or movie. If it sucks just put a minority in there, and if people hate it just call them bigots.

[@albay543]

😎

[@silashurd3597]

Then are you mad at Lightyear?

[@ShiningTaiga]

As someone who's LGBT I agree I don't want to be pandered to my sexuality isn't who I am it's a small aspect of who I am

[@crowmaster9652]

You see the issue is that they shoehorn agendas rather than let the damn thing exist without it being as flashy as advertisements. Because not everyone is interested in advertisements and they have the choice to not be interested in advertisements.

[@catgirl-jj8no]

@@silashurd3597 Lightyear was a mess of a movie. It's not a mess for having lesbians in it; It's a mess because it's an awful movie

[@creaturw]

Has anyone else noticed how the most stereotypical and unhealthy lgbt relationships or caricatures of characters get put on a pedestal by TV shows but then stuff like this happens where more realistic relationships are shut down and canceled? I hate it :/

[@nathanielwilliams6042]

That's because they support wokeness, not things happening naturally if the creator can find a way to not just create it but also make it woke (in a corporate sense) they will definitely have a better chance with the studio then if they just write it naturally. Despite what they believe on the inside, they still have an agenda to push publicly so if the writer and Disney can shake hands on the agenda to push, they would most likely have a good chance of getting it in there.

[@Peasham]

@@nathanielwilliams6042 You have just seen a video that explains that representation is fought for by creatives and is not pushed by the company.

[@actualgoblin]

@@nathanielwilliams6042 what's so "woke" about the romanticization(?) of toxic relationships and commodification of stereotypes that only exist to further marginalize the communities these pieces of media claim they want to represent & even empower? tl;dr what the hell does "woke" mean anyway?

[@wakkaseta8351]

Because those are the sorts of relationships Twitter/Tumblr and most online fandoms glorify, therefore it's what sells best for companies.

[@Peasham]

@@wakkaseta8351 No, those are the only sorts of relationships Twitter/Tumblr have.

[@solarrrrrrrr]

Disney: “We support LGBTQ!” Also Disney : “Wait you have LGBTQ in your show?! TIME TO CANCEL!”

[@makinyoumad9498]

It's funny because that's not the reason

[@ElFlores1984]

based disney

[@donxx1206]

@@justaturky2890 stevan universe was on cn and ran for 6 seasons and a movie

[@apm69]

@@makinyoumad9498 no actually they said it wasn’t their brand

[@apm69]

@@donxx1206 yeah that show lasted longer than the owl house 😭

[@serroy]

i remember steven universe being one of my favorite shows while i was in elementary school. then they just randomly stopped airing it. it's wasn't like the other shows that stopped airing, i could still watch camp lazlo and samurai jack at night time if i wanted to, but not steven universe. years after i actually learned what was the reason. in turkey they censor some shows so much that it's ridiculous, a gumball episode shortened from almost 12 minutes to just 7 minutes and they had the audacity to air that sh!t

[@serroy]

@@birelestirmenindusunceleri4347 aynı muameleyi hetero ilişkilere de uygulamadıkları sürece mantıklı bir açıklaması yok. çocuklar her zaman televizyonda bir kadın ve bir erkeğin ilişki yaşadığını, öpüştüğünü, evlenip çocuk yaptığını görüyor. ister inan ister inanma çocuklar karşı cinslerinden hoşlandıkları kadar kendi cinslerinden de hoşlanabilirler. gey, biseksüel, trans çocuklar (aynı şekilde ebeveynleri eşcinsel olan çocuklar) var ve eğer bu çocukların hetero ilişkilere maruz kalması hayal güçlerini kötü etkilemiyorsa hetero bir çocuğun da gey iki insan görmesi onun hayal gücünü kötü filan etkilemez. video da dediği gibi bu ilişkileri çizgi filmlerde göstermemiz lazım. bunlar normal şeyler.

[@katlyndobransky2419]

I loved SU as a kid too. I never felt like it was pushing an agenda. As a matter of fact, I always thought that Ruby was a boy lmao. But it didn’t matter, because the gems literally have no gender

[@testerwulf3357]

@@katlyndobransky2419 Ruby actually was a boy in all countries that had laws against lgbt! But that got shattered when "he" wore a dress to the wedding..

[@faceless-man2851]

@@birelestirmenindusunceleri4347 katılıyorum, LGBTQ çocuklara gösterilmesine karşıyım kesinlike ama bence normal fillm veya dhaa ciddi büyük yaş animasyon filmlerde olması o kadar k9tü değil

[@melodi_bunniez]

Yup, I love Steven Universe too. Thankfully it wasn't banned in my country, mainly because there's not a lot censoring in kids' series and most of the media is focused on our cringey telenovelas

[@Flamecreeper677]

I never knew that the wedding was the reason for Steve universe rushing to the end. What a dumb decision to can it after all it did. I’m not in the LGBTQ but I agree they should have more representation and not just as background characters.

[@silashurd3597]

@bruh moment uh what???

[@Jonathan-us1qu]

No wonder it ended kinda weird compared to the rest of the shows pacing

[@HotDogTimeMachine385]

Pretty much. Sugar realized Cartoon Network will torch any queer scenes, so she purposefully had the diamonds return during the wedding. "Oh, you're gonna cut the wedding episode? Well then you're also gonna have to cut the diamonds return, the biggest moment in the show! Ha, checkmate. Show the wedding or ALL of your fans will suffer." She also had Sapphire wear a suit and Ruby wear a dress because in some languages Ruby was called "he". Because space crystals NEED TO BE HETEROSEXUAL. "You can dub the show to erase lesbians, but you can't edit out an entire design! Ha." Cartoon network saw she wasn't going on her knees so they forced a rushed ending. The rushed ending to Steven Universe is Cartoon Network's fault. But it was still popular enough to get a movie and a sequel series. They could have just let her finish the show but nooooo.....

[@HotDogTimeMachine385]

@bruh moment Pretty much. Sugar realized Cartoon Network will torch any queer scenes, so she purposefully had the diamonds return during the wedding. "Oh, you're gonna cut the wedding episode? Well then you're also gonna have to cut the diamonds return, the biggest moment in the show! Ha, checkmate. Show the wedding or ALL of your fans will suffer." She also had Sapphire wear a suit and Ruby wear a dress because in some languages Ruby was called "he". Because space crystals NEED TO BE HETEROSEXUAL. "You can dub the show to erase lesbians, but you can't edit out an entire design! Ha." Cartoon network saw she wasn't going on her knees so they forced a rushed ending. The rushed ending to Steven Universe is Cartoon Network's fault. But it was still popular enough to get a movie and a sequel series. They could have just let her finish the show but nooooo.....

[@TheMrDukk]

*disney moment*

[@frenchiesottises8193]

Even as a straight person, I feel offended when this stuff happens. Disney goes all out during pride month, but they turn around and shut down shows for having proper representation. It's just a marketing ploy to make them look friendly. Also, let's not forget this, *these are the same people who don't think twice about showing borderline abusive relationships and play that all up for laughs.*

[@RandomBadAnimator]

Same here man. Whats bad is bad, no matter if gay or not.

[@hamishstewart5324]

Also, let’s not forget that companies are completely fine with putting heterosexual relationships in media aimed at kids that are either completely passionless and just there to fill a quota, or are borderline abusive, with one partner physically hurting the other, which is usually played for laughs.

[@TheMightyGlizzy]

For example She-ra

[@Milo_hAt3r]

If homosexual relationships and more can't be In shows, then no relationships are allowed at all

[@ExtremeWreck]

Pucca I couldn't even laugh at.

[@Sapphire_7]

Edit: because it will make the kids have question

[@ozzie_theotter]

@@Sapphire_7 you'd be surprised how easy it'd be to tell a kid that some boys like girls, and others like boys

[@DangerVA]

As someone who doesn't give a flying griffin about which sexuality a relationship is in media as long as it is done well, I hope the next generation (as long as the planet still exists /j) gets to have LGBT rep more freely then we do.

[@AmbarGriss]

Well, even with all the flaws, we do have better rep today than we had years ago, so let's hope things keep improving.

[@DangerVA]

@@AmbarGriss That's the spirit, think hopeful, not pessimistic. Some things improve with time, and I think (and hope) this is one of them

[@jaywerner8415]

@@AmbarGriss I hope so, though it seems it gonna be a LONG, HARD road.

[@goodboi1725]

Maybe the next step could be male gay couples not getting the parent to parent treatment lmao

[@DangerVA]

@@goodboi1725 That would be nice

[@Dan-zc3ou]

The fact that Lumity and Owl House as a whole managed to be this good even after Disney gutted it and left it to die makes me so angry for the wasted potential

[@isabellarobinson6082]

Agreed, the possibility of what they could've done with a full 3rd season or even a 4th keeps me up at night.

[@WDB2005]

Owl House deserved better, if it aired on Cartoon Network along with Amphibia, both of those shows would’ve gotten better treatment and time management and heck even a crossover (Cartoon Network loves doing crossovers)

[@meh4294]

Idk man ,what happened to SU is CN's fault

[@Trist233]

Nah, they both got overshadowed by TTG

[@Commenter839]

@@Trist233 TTG honestly isn't spammed as much as it once was. They still play it a lot, but as of late I've also been seeing Craig of the Creek and We Bare Bears a lot too. Hopefully I don't jinx this, but stuff like "TTG, all week long, nonstop" seems to be in the past now.

[@supernova4378]

I do belive they were supposed to or at least very likely to get a cross-over as there is references to each other as they exist in the same earth

[@Trist233]

@@Commenter839 Meanwhile, CN Turkey airs 24h TTG Marathon today

[@ericlee4177]

Though it's not a cartoon couple, Holt and Kevin from Brooklyn 99 is the best gay relationship in my opinion because they never feel like they are pandering but are treated like any straight couple in the series.

[@shadowcutter007]

You're right and you should say it

[@ExtremeWreck]

@CrazyNendo Well to be fair, I won't want to trust NBC in the 1st place since they were the first of the 3 big networks to discontinue airing Saturday Morning cartoons.

[@Nipotazzi]

What bothers me more about Disney is that they are always perfectly fine with showing incredibly violent moments, Like someone getting stabbed in the back with a sword, people accidentally hanging themselves, literally being forcefully dragged to HELL, being eaten alive, falling to their death from an high place. The last one happened so many times in their oldest cartoons! But no, same sex kissing is a mega big no no for their managers. What a joke...

[@CCaster2000]

I used to think the "Disney Brand" was just not wanting shows that were too dark for kids which I found hypocritical because of Gravity Falls and all the villain deaths from past Disney movies.

[@tb14333]

Tadashi dying in Big Hero 6 broke me but yet Amity and Luz kissing and becoming a couple was a big no no 😂☠️

[@HogBurger]

I mean the falling to their death one isn’t that violent since more often than not we never see them go splat and become a skin,flesh, and bone pancake upon impact.

[@Nipotazzi]

@@HogBurger If falling to your death is the least gruesome death type in all of their cartoons, then that should tell you something

[@HogBurger]

@@Nipotazzi yeah I remember full well, you could see him fall straight into lava.

[@yappertron2010]

Rebecca: Makes a gay wedding and CN says they are all for it CN in a meeting with Rebecca: *EXPLAIN YOURSELF, WENCH!* Edit: Sorry to be that guy, but 800 likes? Got damn.

[@thefanwithoutaface8105]

I mean you only have to look at Lightyear to understand why. Cartoon Network and Disney are businesses, making money is a crucial part of their day to day. When they showed Lightyear which only had a couple of minutes worth of gay kissing in it it was banned in 14 countries whose combined population likely equates to almost 10 times that of the US population and as a result of that it flopped hard. People seeking LGBT rep generally aren't as big as people make them out to be and if the story isn't that good anyway then the company will have effectively wasted time, money and resources on something that ultimately fails.

[@JESSEM19987]

Rebecca Sugar: It was for goofs, for laughs. Why are you not laughing? It is lesbian rocks getting married, isn't that a silly funny joke?

[@gildanonofyabiznez6430]

@@thefanwithoutaface8105 then they shouldn't be fucking hypocritical to begin with

[@Innerpandora]

@@JESSEM19987 ?

[@JESSEM19987]

@@Innerpandora it is called penguinz0 and playing on to the comment

[@MissTelevision]

In my own video on the topic of Steven Universe I really glossed over the topic of the wedding arc leading to the cancellation of Steven Universe, and looking back, it was really a missed opportunity. Regardless of how the crew did a bad job scrambling and panicking to fill those last 46 episodes, I honestly think it’s worth noting. Rebecca sacrificed everything, the full creative vision of her first fully helmed show that she had spent half a decade realizing, just so she could help further LGBT representation in mainstream children’s animation to the best of her ability. I have no doubt that without her series, we wouldn’t have Lumity in The Owl House and I will ALWAYS commend her for making such a sacrifice for something that important. You may not be able to defend the finale, but you’d have to be a fool not to defend that.

[@thedeadpoolwhochuckles.6852]

too many lesbian rocks, not enough Gay male rocks. 4/10 wouldn't recommend.

[@idkidc2573]

@@thedeadpoolwhochuckles.6852 mlm get more rep than any other group in the community this has to be a joke

[@odeiofunkdeputariarum851]

Things like that makes me wonder what the show would have been if they scrapped the wedding and had more episodes

[@MissTelevision]

Even still they could have attempted to replicate with what little time they had instead of skipping from Season 5 to Season 7. Hella missed opportunity. You should watch a certain video by myself (it has scarf man in it)

[@kirbyboycoolness6734]

@@thedeadpoolwhochuckles.6852 TRUE

[@coolchips283]

I loved to watch The Owl House and my Mom saw some episodes then she saw the Lumity kiss she forbid me to watch it saying it’s inappropriate, but whenever she sees a boy and a girl kissing or something really gory she’s fine with it. And with the Onward movie that one line of dialogue made her go crazy and rant about how inappropriate and horrible it is

[@WDB2005]

Sounds like your mom really doesn’t understand how media works (no offense)

[@coolchips283]

@@WDB2005 none taken I agree

[@saulgoodman6457]

My mom wouldn't let me watch the show "Sanjay and Craig" because they said the word "stupid". I'm honestly glad she wouldn't let me watch that show, it wasn't that good anyways.

[@WDB2005]

@@saulgoodman6457 Does your mom seriously think stupid is a really bad word or something?

[@coolchips283]

@@saulgoodman6457 bruh that’s crazy but yeah would have been a waste of time

[@CEOofAutism]

"I don't want to play with you anymore" - every company on July first

[@cdvideodump]

"Bye, [homophobic slur]" - every company on July first

[@judeblack4360]

Pride month is over. Does this mean we can have wrath month now?

[@ExtremeWreck]

More like "Death is coming closer to you, going at the speed of 88,954 miles a second".

[@squeaks5677]

@@judeblack4360 lust month 😏

[@Notdaphnelmao]

LMAO

[@marisolbecerra06]

Honestly Luz and Amity just as a relationship in general is one of the most natural-feeling couple in kids media, it's one of the few children's shows that doesn't do that dumb "will they won't they" or "hero gets the girl in the end as a reward" (the only thing I don't really like about avatar honestly) they continuously develop as the episodes go on in S2A, and then in 2B there's none of that added turbulence for drama, "will they BREAK UP 😱😱" nonsense, the way they interact and treat each other in their relationship feels so natural and real. Honestly one of my favorite cartoon couples

[@tb14333]

Right!? I've been watching shows from my childhood and Lumitys relationship takes the cake for the most natural. I did know that they kissed and became a couple before watching the show. But I still loved seeing the progression

[@testerwulf3357]

Honestly a huge fan they didn't do like others and hold the relationship off till the end with all the unnecessary tension..really refreshing to see the relationship blossom and bloom throughout the series. Instead of a "will they break up?!" at every difficult moment in their relationship they talk it out like a healthy relationship SHOULD and they in turn grow closer and better themselves.

[@alysssabear]

It’s one of the most healthy animated relationships I’ve ever seen, both LGBTQ+ and in general, and Disney fucking cancels it.

[@isabellarobinson6082]

Exactly, even as a little kid the whole "will they, won't they" deal in cartoons pissed me off. I can understand wanting to develop a relationship and not rush right into it but come on! Danny Phantom was the worst offender of all.

[@paz1514]

Shouldn't really be lgbt propaganda in kids shows honestly

[@nestorcsamacho6328]

I love how TOH gave this young man a true character development, going from some edgy dude to a great critic :)

[@saulgoodman6457]

Exactly. I wasn't a fan of his original Owl House video, but he's grown a lot, and I'm starting to like his videos.

[@isabellarobinson6082]

​@@saulgoodman6457 agreed, the fact that this show is so good that it can give someone irl character development is truly awe-inspiring.

[@daniapfel2825]

It’s Hunter or Gus ?

[@monkeyman2022]

@@daniapfel2825 I think they’re referring to Cartoonshi himself, as his original Owl House video is something he (currently, not at the time) deems mildly offensive as you can see in the pinned comment of that video.

[@gayratkidfromiowasomehow5584]

I remember seeing so many articles talking about gay background characters in Disney and laughing myself to death over how stupid it was. The I saw their twitter post… and lost it; I nearly choked to death laughing because of how they handle gay shows/ topics.

[@punkysnarks]

[Redacted]

[@imnotfromfrancewheeler2678]

@@punkysnarks Is that an analogy or something?

[@punkysnarks]

@@imnotfromfrancewheeler2678 [redacted]

[@imnotfromfrancewheeler2678]

@@punkysnarks I don't understand the point of that notion. Do you somehow think parents don't care about human trafficking because they also hold conservative values? It's possible to be against both without contradicting yourself.

[@punkysnarks]

@@imnotfromfrancewheeler2678 Okay, fine. I was being racist again. I will pull it.

[@Nonjola]

Say about Japan and Europe whatever you want, but they at least had the guts to go through with their representation. Sailormoon was filled with LGBTQ characters, from homosexuals to non-binary people, and even transexual characters and the French cartoon Space Goofs had a character that was clearly a gay guy. Sure, he was portrayed in a stereotypical way, but it is still better than what Disney and other American companies are doing.

[@ExtremeWreck]

For the US, blame Christianity for having the worst freakin' fandom in the histoy of fandoms pal.

[@Commenter839]

Cardcaptor Sakura is one of my favorites. Probably the first and only time I've seen the protagonist and her eventual love interest have a long standing crush on the same person, who himself ends up in a gay relationship with the protagonist's brother. And it's not treated as a joke, either. The gay crushes and relationships are just as normal as the straight ones. Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha also had the titular character adopt a child with another woman in the future. Nanoha and Fate are shown to live in the same house, sleep in the same bed, and their daughter calls them both mom, which is pretty insanely progressive for a 2007 show that doesn't even have romance as a selling point. I'm surprised it isn't talked about more. There's also Chivalry of a Failed Knight, which has a MtF trans girl in the main cast. It was pretty cool to see her introduce herself and tell the main characters that she goes by female pronouns; I don't think I'd ever seen that in a show before. They even included little details like her using the girl's bathrooms at school, but using the boy's bathrooms in areas where people wouldn't know her. For how progressive it seemed though, I was pretty disappointed that the show had to include a throwaway gag about how she looked in a swimsuit. Anime did tend to have an issue with either fetishizing LGBT people or making them jokes, but shows that treat them seriously tend to do it pretty well.

[@wolfyrichards]

Ah yes, back when two of the characters that were romantically involved in Sailor Moon were labeled as "cousins" in the US translation. Can't believe that whoever translated it preferred for it to look like incest rather than a normal healthy lesbian couple lol

[@Nonjola]

@@wolfyrichards I think in the German version they also labelled them as cousins.

[@wolfyrichards]

@@Nonjola Oh dang

[@rosieg6989]

This is everything I am constantly telling people about Disney's lgbt problem, they try their hardest to stop their creators from making lgbt characters, but when their creators manage to get the tiniest bit of rep they tell the whole world how proud they are of themselves for making the character/scene. Also, out of 22 lgbt disney film characters (including pixar, mcu, and star wars) only 6 are from a strictly disney film, and not a single one was confirmed on screen, its their sub studios doing most of the heavy lifting.

[@hamishstewart5324]

This is why I’m baffled by people who claim that the media is pushing an LBGT agenda onto people. There’s no agenda here, they’re just saying they care about LGBT people to get more revenue.

[@Nanokoex]

i saw she-ra princess of power, gay or not that is one hell of a toxic relationship. Catra almost destroyed reality to get back at adora for leaving

[@tealover4013]

Yeah i think that show had more of the case of bad writing, sure dreamworks can have its part in it too but many scenes in she ra should definetly get a rewrite for catradora to work

[@Nanokoex]

@@tealover4013 character traits could use some work too

[@manuba_]

yupp it really sucks that one of the very few queer couples we have in cartoons is that of an abusive relationship being romanticized :( And the worst part is She-ra had gotten Netflix/Dreamworks' approval for 5 seasons from the beginning, so they didn't face any problems like cancelation or shortening of the last seasons like Steven Universe or The Olw House had, the writers just wanted to write their relationship like that and saw no problem in it being this way. So sad.

[@manuba_]

@@tealover4013 not mentioning they are adoptive sisters like... they both are raised together since childhood by the same person who they both see as their mother figure... they are sisters in every way possible without explicitly saying the word

[@Nanokoex]

@@manuba_ the 5 seasons is a lie, it had less 30 minute episodes then the original she-ra. It was really just 2 seasons split apart to make people think it was a good show, that people demanded more. Netflix does this trick to alot of its properties, like cuphead.

[@MutatedPercent]

Thanks for bringing light to this, I have noticed people pointing out some points made in the video but I'm glad that more youtubers are getting the strength to fully discuss it.

[@everforward5561]

DISNEY: "MY WORK HERE IS DONE." EVERYONE: "BUT YOU DIDN'T DO ANYTHING." DISNEY: *DISAPPEARS OUT THE WINDOW*

[@Thumpies3]

Well, my work here is done. What do you mean you’re work is done, you didnt do anything. Hehehe… Didn’t I?

[@Your-Least-Favorite-Stranger]

@James Crombie Many things; an old Jimmy Neutron episode immediately comes to mind.

[@nunyabizness6089]

@James Crombie Also prominently, sailor moon abridged.

[@privatehere3324]

That is the problem with lily orchard you can criticize these shows but she straight up chooses to believe that everything is the creators fault and censorship has nothing to do with the problem with it. Especially now that she is calling the owl house racist these people make it just as hard for creators as corporations.

[@Slipperyslab]

She think toh is racist??? Can elaborate more on this?

[@christopherbennett5858]

@@Slipperyslab She didn’t. She was talking about how the fan base was a little more focused on the non POC characters like Amity to the point that they ignored Luz being present.

[@gizoginjr]

She has never once called TOH racist. She has said that the fandom has a racism problem, because so many fans pretend that Hunter or Amity are the main characters while ignoring Luz, Willow, and Gus.

[@gizoginjr]

Also, what is everyone’s problem with Lily Orchard? I never hear her name mentioned anywhere outside her own videos except as a punchline, but this very video is going over many of the exact same points that she’s been raising for years.

[@christopherbennett5858]

@@gizoginjr I know, right? She literally put this up years ago about how Disney treats these decisions. The other problem is that, even if someone did have actual criticism, so many people have been dishonest in their critiques when their rebuttals can be refuted by the videos they criticise. Honestly, I think it’s because she’s popular and an easy target.

[@AgentNero9]

" a kid show casually having a LGBT representation " Disney: What no! get this out of the show! "someone getting fucking stabed and almost dying" Disney: *ill allow it*

[@WDB2005]

Amphibia and Owl House reference

[@AgentNero9]

@@WDB2005 on spot lmao

[@intergalactic-oboist]

They pulled "True Colors" from air for a week and made them put a content warning and also something at the end of the episode showing that they were okay. I get your point but they very much did try to censor that.

[@AgentNero9]

@@intergalactic-oboist i kinda meant like marcy getting stabed and Disney allowing that

[@ken6056]

@@AgentNero9 marcy getting stabbed and sasha getting slashed in the back is allowed but not this 💀

[@smae98]

disney: allows a child to be stabbed and basically tortured (Amphibia) also disney: nooOoOOo! you can’t have Luz and Amity kiss! China and Russia or smth don’t allow that!

[@B_H_J]

Hooty looks so goofy in your pfp 😭

[@azizshamsi6044]

Even in every Islamic country

[@stillprimethosewhoknow]

Second one is worse. Glad Disney came to their senses and deleted that stupid shit.

[@stillprimethosewhoknow]

@@azizshamsi6044I live in one of those countries, so proud

[@veronica3662]

​@@stillprimethosewhoknowHow tf are 2 people loving eachother worse than attempted murder?

[@Zelnyair]

I just want any of these shows to be able to say the word 'gay'. Or 'lesbian'. Or 'trans', or any of the other words that LGBTQIA+ stands for If they're our allies, they should at least be able to say the words.

[@manuba_]

They say it in Kipo and the age of wonderbeasts!! It's on minute 8:21 The protagonist girl tells her friend that she might have a crush on him and he goes like "oh, I mean you're awesome and I really like you, but I'm gay :)" and then later on the show he gets a boyfriend and they kiss it's really wholesome

[@onaippiano3491]

Dead End: Paranormal Park's main character straight up says he's trans in the second episode. It's a relatively new Netflix cartoon (although the original pilot's pretty old). It's interesting that Netflix doesn't seem to have an issue with labels while tv networks still do

[@sylvan-the-necromancer]

@@onaippiano3491 My best guess is because more karens and people of similar views watch tv networks (and by watch I mean use as a babysitter) than netflix, so they can't go as far with lgbt rep than netflix can.

[@jurassicarkjordanisgreat1778]

There not your allys. There pretending to be so that you guys don't cancel them and because of that nobody does cancel them because they put on the act of allyship. They get paid by investments to push these messages. They don't actually care. What you gotta do is make your own company and start produce media to compete with the big guys. Because they aren't gonna change because all they care about is money.

[@brailianharvey-howard1207]

No

[@b4ooks233]

So it’s a constant loop of a creator trying to include a relationship they want too but the process of even including it was so hard that the development of the relationship in the show can be rushed due to the creator feeling pressured to make due on what he/she fought for too show. That might be wrong but I’m all for relationships no matter what they are as long as they don’t constantly force the characters too act a certain way because of it.

[@PlatinumHntr]

2:10 I just wanna say how SMOOTH that animation looks like Holy Sh!t is that smooth. It makes it more disappointing that they canceled a good show just because of lesbians

[@saulgoodman6457]

IKR? The show has some pretty amazing animation, especially in the second season.

[@azoplayz2385]

That seems like more than enough reason to cancel it cause it always sometimes you will forget that kids are going to watch this shit

[@noboloboski]

(even tho luz is bi canonically)

[@azoplayz2385]

@@noboloboski what?

[@payt00n]

Arcane and Kipo and the wilderbeast are such good shows with amazing rep and I recommend both

[@lamarcynalc]

Fr!

[@Ich-Existiere-Nicht]

Kipo is so underrated it makes me sad

[@MobDraws69]

I usually don’t pay much thought to this topic, but the shows I like most are axed just because one of the characters aren’t straight. I watch shows for their stories, but Disney doesn’t care about those in place of politics and it’s infuriating as a writer myself. In fact, it worries me that I may not have a future in this field because of the stranglehold both Disney and politics have over modern media.

[@payt00n]

Gay characters shouldn't be political at all which is the sad part, me existing isn't political 💀💀💀

[@bobtheball5384]

@@payt00n Fr

[@adampkalb]

If Disney and other entertainment companies only care about _politics_ now, then they have forgotten what it really means to be an _entertainment_ company because otherwise, they are failing their job by giving us the opposite of representation. July 2, 2022, 12:15pm

[@NuniaBiznaz]

@@adampkalb A company just looks to make money. If their show gets banned from too many countries because they hate the gays or something, they lose money. Therefore they try to strike the perfect balance of allowing minor amount of representation that can be easily reversed/censored in countries where they stand to gain money, and allow it in places there it'll be accepted or at least tolerated in hopes of gaining a bit of extra money from it too. It is in the very nature of companies/corporations to be fuelled by greed, and that's a bigger focus than politics-although they certainly wouldn't have to do this if their sources of income weren't taking a political stance against LGBT.

[@adampkalb]

@@NuniaBiznaz Well, those entertainment companies still need to watch out if their greed actually prevents them from entertaining anyone. This is why nobody likes The Emoji Movie and Space Jam: A New Legacy when the stories of those movies were just soulless advertisements for many other products. July 4, 2022, 6:38pm

[@schmoferino]

Two opposing sexes kiss: aight cool Two of the same sex kiss: literally a fucking crime

[@AlextheHomo]

Painfuly accurate

[@mpc7540]

Correction; Two opposing sexes passionately kissing: aight cool Two of the same sex kiss located so far in the background it's like playing Where's Waldo: That's a fucking crime

[@cyberkkult]

@@mpc7540 reminds me when the republicans were screaming on twitter over that 1 millisecond lesbian kiss in lightyear 💀

[@katlyndobransky2419]

@@cyberkkult I mean it was stupid and unnecessary Imo

[@cyberkkult]

@@katlyndobransky2419 yeah but they wouldn’t be saying anything if it was a man and a woman kissing, which is why it’s hella stupid lol. they’re just complaining over nothin

[@the_weird_human_creature]

Personally, I am not a member of the LGTBQ+ community but I support them no matter what. Hopefully things will change for the better eventually.

[@RainbowStarGirl2007]

we respect people like you ❤

[@Mediados]

Same it only annoys me when a show has a great overarcing plot that nobody talks about because someone in there is gay. If the goal is to make LGBTQ a common and widely accepted thing, pointing it out, underlining it in red and drawing a circle around it undermines the entire concept of representation.

[@izzyk5724]

Now your speaking my language

[@mizuuthetrans]

I like you 🤗

[@noboloboski]

I'm a barbsexual of the LGBBQ+ community (i'm actually bi, take a joke)

[@yogibear8683]

Prise Month may be over, but I still wish some of you and your loved one a Happy and safe summer.

[@ramen-numerals]

What I hate about the representation in media is how it usually feels forced. A show will have zero romantic elements then be like "LOOK A GAY COUPLE. WE HAVE A GAY COUPLE."

[@teeveeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee]

Lol Straight characters are allowed to be as open with the fact that they're straight as possible, but the second a gay character is introduced, then suddenly you act as if being gay is their only personality and that they're "shoving it down your throat" lmao.

[@wakkaseta8351]

@@teeveeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee The moment you see a conservative, you suddenly act as if being a bigot is their only personality and that they're opressing you, so what's your point?

[@marygraceoyangorin8918]

@@teeveeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee Yep, absolutely. I don't get these types of people, these people actually can't stand gay characters in their media and call it "fOrcEd repResnTaTIon" .

[@hex9077]

Examples?

[@semidecent4395]

Idk about it feeling forced, but I do hate when it takes precedence over personality or story

[@TheDigitalApple]

Honestly hearing companies put a gay character into a show and people getting weirdly excited about it reminds me of putting a pair of keys in front of baby’s to get them to laugh.

[@kit40tatoon]

Id say its more akin to dangling food infront of a starving homeless person

[@thedeadpoolwhochuckles.6852]

@@kit40tatoon its not that dire. if you want to normalize gay you don't point it out at every turn.

[@brycev8491]

@@thedeadpoolwhochuckles.6852 Because the moment a straight protagonist gets into a relationship with someone, it's definitely not being "pointed out."

[@idkidc2573]

@@thedeadpoolwhochuckles.6852 straight people are allowed to get excited about straight relationships in media but if a gay person does it with gay ships suddenly its "oh so you think being gay shouldnt be normalized?"

[@whiteeye3453]

Oh we have a envy in this section Besides sexual minority are small % of population so it is not that they are important but why they act like they are at top of the word wich piss off people of

[@ainsleyjackson6690]

the owl house is genuinely getting so good in the second season it boggles my mind it had to be shortened

[@matt98785]

I will never forgive Disney for what they did to The Owl House

[@epRivera]

Wasn't there a finale? (I don't know, I don't watch)

[@mattblaster2378]

@@epRivera there was. It’s posted on their main channel. But Disney hates the gays so much that they canceled the show with plenty of time to wrap up it’s story and made it more accessible to wider audience’s to make sure that it would never be associated with the Disney brand. Just like Cartoon Network when they canceled Steven universe and gave them a whole epilogue season and movie. These companies just can’t stand these gay having shows.

[@Gaming.Gamer.]

​@@epRiveraYes. And it was GREAT! But still, most would've enjoyed a whole 3rd season, me included. The finale was the ending it deserved but when it comes to the story, it happens a bit too fast.

[@Thehonoredone110]

Like it was great but I don't support lgbtq

[@Peasham]

​@@Thehonoredone110Wtf does that mean

[@StoryTeller796]

With how hard they work to keep LGBTQ representation out, they sure could accomplish a lot of good for the LGBTQ community if they put this same work ethic and political savvyness to actually HELP THEM! But ehh, it'll probably take a lot of convincing to turn these companies about. It is truly and honestly a tragedy for all of them, especially Disney, that they would do this kind of stuff, to just cause problems for everyone like this.

[@ChezBurger_97]

this reminds me of the "companies when it hits july 1st 12:00 am" memes i see because as short as those videos are, they are true companies will do whatever it takes to multiply their monetary gain especially if it's "representation" i feel like lgbtq couples should be shown and normalized whether they are background/side characters, or even if it's not easy to realize right off the bat queer relationships aren't any different from straight relationships, both require you to have love and affection to the person (or people) you are dating i can't believe companies allow lgbtq relationships to air on tv, then get mad at it sooner or later if the next generation fails and society collapses (/j), all i ask for is that queer couples to be fully normalized it's not that being straight is bad, i just want people be feel comfortable in their preferences

[@austinreed5805]

As someone who isn’t a part of the LGBT community, I am completely fine with LGBT representations in shows. However, I do not like it when a company completely uses representation as a crutch or censors it to the point of it not even existing. It completely contradicts what representation is supposed to be. Let alone, the fact these companies wave pride flags during June just pisses me off. If you’re not truly representing, then why wave the flags?! Of course the answer is cancelation, but you get my point, it’s contradicting. I hope that better representation can be reached in the near future, despite greedy companies. For now, Hazbin Hotel might be the show I’m looking forward to for said representation. Hell, the show has more LGBT characters than Straight characters, not only that, but the characters are good. So, I feel like that show, despite it’s own controversies, will be the next show to look forward to for LGBT representation. That is if A24 doesn’t pull a Disney or gets acquired by any large corporate entity.

[@anothermiddleschoolburnout8816]

Oof on the Hazbin Hotel. I liked it but it did not deliver on the hype. They didn't censor relationships but the amount of corporate meddling definitely stunted the show from being amazing.

[@TisPopRock]

This is why I don’t want my stories to be airing on a network, specifically Disney channel. As much as I love Disney channel it sounds like hell trying to work with them and also almost all my characters are LGBT so I’d probably get cancelled real quick. Edit: I’m making it a book now

[@shonnaa7117]

Same, I don't want any companies taking control of my projects. All of my works are better off as a web series like Helluva Boss.

[@WDB2005]

From the looks of it, Nickelodeon is the only network actually worth dealing with.

[@kittykittybangbang9367]

@@WDB2005 that's terrible because if a show isn't an instant success on Nick, then it will be quickly axed out

[@payt00n]

You'll be a lot better off with like Netflix or something

[@whiteeye3453]

If your point of your characters is being not straight then you will never succeed it not because of company but of being typical left entertainment wich is politics and boredom wich audience

[@DogWithAYoutubeAccount]

I hate that networks have the audacity to claim to be SO progressive, but as soon as profits come into play, that enthusiasm is just completely gone. I think what these people don’t think or care about is how representation can make those who are being represented feel and the kind of impact it can have on those who watch the show. When I was younger, I loved Steven Universe a lot. I’ll always remember the day the episode where Sapphire and Ruby are revealed to be a fusion aired. They are shown to be a couple and when Ruby kissed Sapphire and they hugged, I realized that THAT WAS POSSIBLE. I realized that girls can love other girls like boys and girls can like each other. I was very young at the time, so this concept had never really even crossed my mind. I had to have rewatched that scene at least seven times because I was so awestruck by it! And I’ll admit I shed a few tears. Why? Because in that moment I understood the feelings I’d been having for as long as I could remember. Finding having a boyfriend weird and just claiming I had one to fit in? The butterflies in my stomach I got around a certain girl? Not understanding why I didn’t find any boys who my friends thought were cute appealing at all? Why I always thought I’d never get married because I didn’t want a husband? It suddenly all clicked got me that I was like Ruby and Sapphire. And I realized that I loved girls all along. For the first time, I felt like I wasn’t weird for feeling what I did. I understood it was something normal for the first time in my life. And all that came from a single moment in a cartoon I watched when I was around 10 years old. Representation can do a lot for people. It can do so much for kids who are confused and scared about what they’re feeling and who they are. I’ll always appreciate Steven Universe, even years later, for giving me that moment of understanding.

[@sierraa.bryant9322]

I’m very glad you were able to come to that realization ❤️

[@MrMcGrawAndTheBigFeathers]

The worse thing is that it's been proven that even doing the bare minimum seems to get Disney too much heat nowadays. Both Dr Strange and Lightyear have couples who get like 1 minute of screentime and then instantly die, but that was enough for people to piss their shits over it, which will only make Disney more regressive on this.

[@xanderg.1070]

By the time this video is released and while I am writing this, CN was rerunning Steven Universe episodes this week from 6-8pm for pride month. Which is funny considering how CN was giving Rebecca a hard time about the lgbtq representation in her show.

[@vegetafan9922]

The 1st of June, Disney XD ran a marathon of The Owl House consisting of episodes focused on the development of Luz and Amity's relationship.

[@four-en-tee]

My biggest gripe as someone that's often rather anti-SJW is that "This isn't like Velma where they blackwashed her and Shaggy and then omitted the funny talking dog. Dana Terrace and her team wrote an original, SUCCESSFUL, awe-inspiring story that tackled LGBTQ+ themes maturely and respectfully while telling an awesome story on the surface, and Disney threw it in the dumpster. Its a punch to the face to someone who appreciates good writing, and a shotgun to the knees to anyone that identifies as anything other than a cis, binary man or woman." Like, this show is miles better than something like Steven Universe or The Legend of Korra in terms of objective writing quality (which makes sense, Dana also worked on Gravity Falls), yet those shows got to run its course while this got treated unjustly. Its just bullshit. The Owl House has basically become this generation's Samurai Jack. They should redo season 3 and give the story a proper conclusion. Like, if fucking Zach Snyder is allowed to spend 5 hours wasting everyone's time with his brooding vision of the DC Universe, i don't get why Disney can't throw us a bone (especially if what we got wasn't at all what Dana intended). Disney really owes it to this show's fans to do it again and do it right.

[@legendaresn6983]

Dana did what? What is the name of the show?

[@alexgomez6723]

It’s insulting to compare pandering trash that’s really just a glorified Harry Potter fanfiction like Foul House to something like Samurai Jack.

[@JeraspatFGF]

i’ve been a passive viewer of yours since i got recced your video on the loud house winter 2021, and it’s been such a privilege to see you grow both in skill and in confidence as a video essayist, and as usual you knock it out of the fucking PARK with this one! i never considered the angle of disney not being proud of the actual steps taken by its queer creators to tell their own stories in the same way they are their snapshot, blink and miss it rep but. Holy Shit, that says so much. “Gays are fine, but only when we can make them as nondescript and safe as possible to avoid harming our bottom line.” and it’s just so Vindicating to hear that voiced by someone else, yknow? but yeah, keep up the great work, and i continue to be a huge fan of your stuff!

[@toon4thought]

In the past month alone, Disney has had conservative groups get on their cases for: a brief scene with a trans boy talking about tampons in the "Baymax" series, and a one-second kiss in "Lightyear" (albeit one that was wholesome AF in-context) that despite its briefness was enough for many countries and groups to ban the film outright. Seeing such media fire stem from such minimal action that isn't really deserving of praise at this point is just so pathetic to me.

[@silashurd3597]

That’s literally what I’ve been saying, literally movies or such like Lightyear (I haven’t seen Baymax) has something minimal and played normally is enough to cause an entire army of people to try to murder it but you have shows like some of the ones Cartoonshi shows and literally no one cares and is fine with it and even celebrates it. It’s massively hypocritical and I just don’t get it. Btw I saw Lightyear and I actually thought it was good, as for Baymax, that is for the future

[@toon4thought]

@@silashurd3597 I feel like Disney is at least partially "egging them on" to get mad.

[@thefanwithoutaface8105]

Uh Lightyear was banned in countries like the Middle East and China who are fervently anti LGBT. That's a cultural thing and you getting mad about it won't help anything and it won't change any time soon. You have to accept most countries aren't very accepting of things.

[@imnotfromfrancewheeler2678]

It's not a complicated or new thing. It's a religious thing. It's not the fact there's kissing involved, it's the LGBT aspect that people reject. It's hypocritical, yes. But people are acting as if religion or similar preferences are a new phenomenon that only began surfacing yesterday.

[@randomchannel609]

@@toon4thought Bro wtf when I saw it at my theater there was no kiss

[@youtubecreators384]

And this is why independent shows like Helluva Boss and Hazbin Hotel are total hits. They're not under the tyrannical rule of the mouse or Hollywood.

[@smingus101]

too bad those two are filled to the brim with tropes & cliches

[@youtubecreators384]

@@smingus101 Filled to the brim with tropes and cliches? Please elaborate.

[@HoneyWareDX]

​@freerobux49 or maybe they actually watched the show and realised, it's not actually great as some people say it is, especially after S1.

[@anothermiddleschoolburnout8816]

​@@HoneyWareDX Hazbin Hotel definitely floundered due to it's pacing. I believe that the team had more episodes lined up for the first season but Amazon cut it to eight. I feel like the Hazbin would have been so much better if they went a similar route as Helluva Boss.

[@VigilanteLulu]

Happy (End of ) Pride Month, dude! Nice video about the corporate attitudes towards LGBT characters in animation and how those corp-heads sabotage the vision of the creators. Alex Hirsch and Dana Terrace are so based in their callouts of the big D!

[@A350flyernyc]

The worst part is that there’s no way to win in this situation. You can either boycott the network and pirate the shows, but that wouldn’t do much damage to the network, and would probably hurt the creators of the shows a lot more. Alternatively, you can watch through official means, but then you’d have to do business with the networks that are censuring this stuff. There’s no way to win against the networks.

[@chrisdonovan205]

sad thing is luz and amity was a healthy relationship totally should have fit the brand

[@alejandrokudo5463]

12:57 You know, at first I was surprised when this was the reason, the sole reason, that Steven Universe was not picked up for more episodes, but then I’m like “why TF should I be surprised? It’s executives we’re talking about.”

[@bunnychu15]

As many issues as I have with Steven Universe, it really sucks that it was rushed just because the network screwed them over. I really hope The Owl House doesn't suffer the same fate. So far it's been well-paced, but Disney is practically the king of "here's your six seconds of representation from a minor character no one cares about!"

[@bradyboy6874]

there was a time in my life when I outright hated this channel, back when you made the owl house video. But as the years passed and my own tolerance and understanding of sarcasm has evolved, as well as your own video making style. I find myself sitting here a fan, and while I don’t agree with a number of your points, you are definitely one of the funniest youtubers I’ve seen in a long time. Today I have subscribed and am looking forward to the enjoyment my future will hold.

[@brem-]

NGL it would be kinda nice to see more gay couples rather than lesbian. Like the only time I see gay couples in a show they're like background character you'll see like once or twice, meanwhile lesbian couples are either the main characters (luz and amity), the supporting characters (ruby and saphire), or just regular side characters (jackie and chloe). Not to say that I hate the lesbian representation, but give my boys some love too.

[@idkidc2573]

gay couples have more rep than lesbians in any medium besides children's cartoons

[@brem-]

@@idkidc2573 Then lets switch it up, get some gays in the cartoons and get some lesbians in the other mediums

[@greensonickid3304]

People when a boy and girl kiss on camera for twenty seconds: 😃 The same people when a girl and girl hold hands for 1 second: 😠

[@granda3649]

Idk anyone who's like that

[@toorurururu5911]

@@granda3649 yeah same

[@dalepirofsky3851]

@@toorurururu5911 Clearly the one million moms

[@KokaKola633]

The hypocrisy :/

[@granda3649]

@@KokaKola633 it's not hypocrisy to like the default setting

[@tinkywinky5558]

I'm glad representation is slowly getting better in animated media. There's a struggle for sure in terms of having it be out there without corporate meddling and censorship (which i think will always exist given the very great divide of non-western cultures regarding LGBT which is debatably harsher in other countries than here) Most we can ask for is for the writing of the representation that does exist to at least be well written (and pray for less corporate meddling). Arcane and Owl House will always be top-tier in both writing and representation department with organic and healthy LGBT relationships along with compelling stories that can support itself without just solely relying on the representation as it's saving grace. I hope it just becomes the new standards and raises the bars enough for future representation to be on par with instead of it being poorly handled/written like She-Ra (intentional or not it promoted toxic/abusive relationships with the main ship and just had general poor writing imho)

[@daniapfel2825]

What’s wrong with She-Ra ?

[@bill6644]

People need to understand that companies don't care about anyone .their main goal is money .

[@Dragonrider1227]

Its true. Black, white, gay, straight, you can't rely on any soulless corporation for true, genuine representation.

[@basiccake2805]

Its for the love of money.

[@isabellarobinson6082]

That doesn't make it right, to use "companies want money" as a scapegoat for said companies being shitty is dumb.

[@geet9830]

i'm very happy more and more people realizing a lot of "rushed" lgbt rep is the fault of network censorship, not the creators who have to fight and risk their career just to have it at all.

[@lukasier26]

8:25 This is something more than representation, it's balls Who could have thought while watching the show for the first times that creators decided to sink the first possible ship so fast by revealing Benson's sexuality. It's just harder to write it this way than just staying with basic heterosexual ship of basically two main characters

[@tadesubaru1383]

We need more ace and aroace characters in media, especially for children

[@AdventMusics07]

im all up for ace and aroace characters, gay or bi characters influence kids badly.

[@lovelygurlz7883]

@@AdventMusics07 Then we should also not put straight couples, they influence childrens as well.

[@AdventMusics07]

@@lovelygurlz7883 yeah but they influence in a normal way, same sex marriages arent that normal for me, keep whining.

[@lovelygurlz7883]

@@AdventMusics07 just because you think it's strange doesn't mean it's bad. Keep dreaming.

[@Leadlight280]

@@AdventMusics07 your argument is "Mom me not likey, that's yucky"

[@thefanwithoutaface8105]

Here's my thoughts most shows should take a note from Archer. They have Ray, a gay character who was gay from the start, they didn't make a big deal about it, it was a part of his character outside of other things and let the audience decide whether they liked him or not. Ray is a character I enjoy in Archer, him being gay is just part of his character and FX didn't parade him like some kind of champion of progressive, he's just a character. That's what I wish shows would realize, gay characters are just characters and shouldn't be treated like some revolutionary thing people need to celebrate. If a character is well written their sexuality shouldn't matter.

[@itarfer]

The reason lumity and edaine(?) works and is the representation we've been waiting for is that the queer characters and their relationships are central to their story, you know. Like most straight relationships in most media. Its an ACTUAL story about someone like us.

[@raven3067]

We're still getting 3 Owl House specials. Better than getting nothing at all.

[@RavenStarMedia]

Plus we got the Collector and Season 2 being much better paced.

[@jofoster7092]

Wait.. Being gay isn't gonna make satan erupt out of my chest?!?! Aw man, I really wanted that to happen in front of my enemies.

[@justaghostinthesea]

This is why I'm homophobic. The day I learned I couldn't summon Satan from my chest was the day I decided to hate the gays.

[@Drakewhobesilent]

A video like this is refreshing compared to the hundreds that will rant about how a cartoon is “woke” because it had a queer character with 30 seconds of dialogue

[@404_coffee9]

I have to agree man or mam it's rather refreshing.

[@sunkenobi1501]

I get where where those people are coming from but I think I can summarize it." The exist of gay characters isn't problem the is that you make a big deal out of it when we've have been doing it for the past decades. To say that here and now is where we finally get representation is dishonest." There simple as that.

[@Hero_Of_Time241]

I have found one show that avoids this: the Netflix animated series dead end It talks about two teens getting a job at an old amusement park run infested with demons (some more malicious than others) and talking about the teen's struggles The character that is important for this discussion is Barney, the male lead He is both gay and trans, and those topics are not shied away from at all and are instead an important part of his character, with him not returning home after getting the job because he fears his grand mother's judgment and that his parents do not support him I feel like it was handled very well and respectfully, with the fact that he's trans actively being part of his motivations and struggles, and even driving him to not judge or hide people (or in his case his partially demon infested dog Pugsley) that have changed

[@Nova_Yt12]

The Owl house animators when every something interesting happens: FINALLY, the reason I wake up in the morning

[@williamstark9568]

Make a gay or representative character. Make sure they're easy to edit out for overseas versions. Claim progress has been made.

[@SaturnSZN]

Disney: We love LGBTQ! Lets put it in our shows! *They lose money* Disney: lemme see those shows again

[@daniapfel2825]

Yeah Disney is pathetic

[@Xenomorphmaindbd999]

As a man who like men I don’t want to be paraded around by some billion dollar media conglomerate why can’t countries like Russia just let ppl like me exist irl and on television

[@l8studios_]

As a straight white boy this really makes me sad. Lumity is my favourite relationship ever written and let’s be honest the Owl House was cancelled over it and it really annoys me

[@starfieldgames5976]

it wasn’t though?

[@rfurthegamer3412]

@@starfieldgames5976it was cancelled for ‘not fitting the brand’ by one guy (theorised to be the ceo guy I forgot the name of(who is infamous for not liking lgbt themes)) after they showed lgbt themes. Make up your own mind

[@starfieldgames5976]

@@rfurthegamer3412 they showed lgbtq+ themes LONG before that, and dana has said herself it was to save costs during the pandemic.

[@rfurthegamer3412]

@@starfieldgames5976 link? And I don’t think Dana would say it was homophobia while on paytoll

[@ethan1969]

I like how Disney makes statements like “there’s room for everyone under the rainbow” but then they’re totally fine with censoring that stuff in their movies and shows when it goes overseas to China and shit.

[@actiii4170]

I think The Boys perfectly represents how media portrays LGBTQ rep with a simple question, “Do you see us as human?”

[@HannyaHalo]

This video is great and I really appreciate the effort you put into it. More people need to call out this "we support LGBT" bullshit during pride month all big corporations do and then turn around and try their best to hide LGBT representation at every corner and alleyway.

[@ImAmity]

The timing this showed up in my recommendation is rough. The Owl House finale just happened, and I am still destroyed by my favorite show being cancelled.

[@daniapfel2825]

Yeah and I love your profil

[@sadlobster1]

I'm going to be honest with everyone here I was raised Lutheran Catholic my whole life by my mother, while my father follows the more Roman Catholic version of Christianity. Over the years, I was raised to believe that we should "do unto others as they would unto you." In other words, I treat people with the same amount of kindness I would expect THEY might give ME; INCLUDING the LGBTQ+ Community. Sadly, all this anti-gay behavior by the so-called "good people of the cloth" I've seen this past year alone has led me to almost hate my own faith...ALMOST! I say that because I remind myself that not every Christian hates the LGBT like Ron DeSantis, Ben Shapiro and all those people in the "fundamental Christian groups" do. There are those among Christians who not only act as allies to the Community but may also part of the LGBT themselves. So...anytime I hear about the GOP trying to "save America" by criminalizing LGBTQ+ existence, I shake my head and ultimately cry out the word "HYPOCRITES!" In closing, we need to stop all this hate and discrimination towards the Community and instead direct that behavior towards people who actually DESERVE IT...like the Proud Boys or the guy who shot up that school in Uvalde

[@punkysnarks]

Roman Catholic here. I feel you. Honestly, between the homophobia, transphobia, apathy to mass shooting victims, apathy to rape ("God wanted you to get raped, it was God's plan for you to be forced to have a child") and casual discarding of women's rights for "thuh unborn bbys" while the world just keeps becoming a shittier place for babies to grow up in (assuming they don't kill themselves and the mother during birth), I have become totally disillusioned with my faith. Catholics strike me now as hypocrites and, if you pardon me for the overused term, sheep. What's pissing me off is that these supposedly loving religious folk are spreading hysteria about how trans people and allies are groomers even if none of them ever have the chance to interact with kids. The fuck happened to "Thou shalt not spread falsehoods". And how is downplaying actual pedophilia a loving saintly thing to do? Do they really think kids are just so impressionable that one gay kiss will turn them gay? Are drag queens really just chaining these kids in front of them and forcing them to listen to their storytimes? Anyway, there is zero hope of my parents becoming in favor of LGBT+. They're in their 60's, of course gay people are scary. My mom even once compared their "propaganda" to *nazi propaganda*. My three brothers have become phobic as well. I think I was only spared because I gained my internet addiction and gained acquaintances and friends who are either LGBT+ or allies. Now I couldn't think of lining up with "my people" and hating gays. I don't regret harshly telling off the people who think trans people are groomers or abused into becoming that way. Because they're just fucking people. That's it. And so I get a headache when mom and dad start ranting to each other about LGBT+ matters and tune it out with music or KZbin, that's how sick I am of all these homophobic excuses.

[@amberrichards2778]

Thanks for being an ally < 3

[@whiteeye3453]

Did you even consider if lgbt is wrong on some level?

[@sadlobster1]

@@amberrichards2778 You're very welcome

[@sadlobster1]

@@punkysnarks Thankfully, my own mother is more open-minded...but only a little when it comes to the LGBT. For example, she's been an Ellen fan for years and never felt disturbed by the fact she was a lesbian nor was she put off by the numerous LGBTQ+ guests Ellen had on the show. However, she DOES seem to have difficulty understanding the nature of non-binary people and their mindset of being "genderless"

[@fatguy4137]

Is it Weird if I never noticed the Cops relationship as a kid in Gravity Falls? Man I was a Obliviously stupid Child.

[@legendaresn6983]

I always assumed it was a big bro little bro relationship since one of them was significantly older

[@naterivers6107]

I just got done with The Owl House season 1 and while it does have it's more tismic moment, I was blown away with how strong the character development was, and Luz x Amnity was very well developed. As for Korrasami it's the exact opposite of that, going from two character that were barely on speaking terms to being friends suddenly only for them to kiss at the end with literally no build whats so ever.

[@tb14333]

To be fair, the creators had to fight Nickelodeon for the handholding scene. Especially since it was pre-gay marriage in the US. They were able to write more about their relationship in the comics. Nickelodeon in general just screwed them over the whole time while they created TLOK

[@naterivers6107]

@@tb14333 Actually, Legend of Korra was given just about every possible chance to succeed. I remember being a young teen during Avatar's original run and it's no exaduration to say everyone was talking about it. Me and my friends couldn't shut up about it. It was a massively popular series. Korra was coming in off those coat tails and the leading hype was huge. It was all over youtube, everyone was buzzing over it. And then it fell off cause the first season was kinda weak. Season 2 was outright catestrophic and so Nick moved Korra to online only, which was a dick move for sure, but they had their chances. And then there was Korrasami. It had absolutely no build up. No possible flirtation, no introspection towards one another, no psudo date where they happened to spend the evening together dressed well, just that ending with them holding hands. And even then, it just sorta looked like they were taking a teleporting pose.... thing.

[@tb14333]

@@naterivers6107 ATLA was greenlite 3 seasons right off the bat. Where as TLOK was greenlite season by season. Seasons 3 and 4 were greenlite together but seasons 1 and 2 wearnt, which would explain the finished ending in season 1. The creators thought that season 1 would be the end of the series. And again, the reason because there was no buildup to Korra and Asami is because they couldn't put any. The hand hold was risky enough at the time. Nickelodeon is more open about queer characters now, but back then they wearnt. They didnt consider it kid friendly. So the hand hold may have been small but it was the a great bouncing board for having queer characters in children cartoons. I would have loved to have seen a whole development without the Mako mess. But because of Nickelodeon, they couldn't.

[@naterivers6107]

@@tb14333 It's the opposite actually. Last Airbender was given a single half season to gauge reception, at which point they were green lit for more episodes. Legend of Korra was picked up up a single season, but then during development where told the network had ordered 4 seasons. Though even then that's not really a good excuse. Season 1 could have very easily been used as a spring board, provided it was written well. It wasn't though and Mike and Byran completely shit the bed when trying to write more.

[@tb14333]

@@naterivers6107 either way, they wouldn't have been able to written a Korra and Asami love story because of the time it aired. They were restricted and hand hold was one thing they could sneak in. If they launched TLOK in 2022, I'm sure we would of gotten a full love story progression due to the more queer positive atmosphere Nickelodeon has today. Since a Korra movie is in the works at Avatar Studios, hopefully we can see some Korra ans Asami scenes

[@thecowboybebop2071]

I really don’t like Netflix for a lot of reasons, but the fact that they picked up Nimona after Disney tried ending it before it got nominated for an Oscar OVER DISNEY’S WISH is so amazing. (The movie is also one of my favorite movies from 2023, it’s incredible)

[@Ashlee665]

Som people say that is "shoving pride down their throats" which is immature,bro just one gay kiss and you say "STOP SHOVING PRIDE DOWN PEOPLES THROATS"

[@Rhythmgameenthusiast]

a guide to lgbt+ media by me, a lesbian 1- gueer relationship is abusive but praised (shera - catra is NOT a good match for adora, they do not have any kind of pacing or chemistry to their relationship- this is just 1 example) 2- good Sapphic rep, but gets pulled just bc the company backing it is homophobic (owl house, lumity) 3- easily dismissible/queerbaiting (amphibia, star wars, svtfoe, voltron, etc) we(i) hate disney

[@evocarnashion7680]

I like how this could also go for "video games cause violence" and just because teens/kids see violent (or in this case lgbtq+) it doesnt instantly turn them into a 'monster' (I am not being offensive, I just know people who are very anti-lgbt+ and think it is a sin to all things on earth).

[@AdventMusics07]

its a sin in my religion anyway, go become islamophobic if u hate that.

[@isabellarobinson6082]

Agreed. Despite my dad completely wrecking me in every match of any fighting game we play, having something to share with him feels amazing.

[@justaghostinthesea]

Video games are actually more likely to prevent violence, since kids will be at home playing games, not out doing crime

[@jellycrab]

Bro, why do we have the same personality? You talk about shows like the owl house, and steven universe, then put a cringe warning for star wars like good on you man 👍

[@Sudafedz]

Bro I hate what they did to Jackie. She goes on an expensive ass date, tells Marco "friend g" disappears for years has a girlfriend for less than 3 minutes and then we never see her again.

[@comradejellobiafra4638]

Unrelated note but i think both The Boys and Helluva Boss have very good representation (I know these shows have nothing in common but whatever). Neither of them hides their gays, and their relationships are treated as that, not as jokes or simply used to say "SEE! WE HAVE GAYS!".

[@WannabeDev1]

Sorry, I just like to think of a billboard advertising a show, and it just says “SEE! WE HAVE GAYS!”

[@tinkywinky5558]

Honestly I’m not much of a fan of Helluva Boss but I really like the representation in that show. I really think there’s legitimate chemistry and an interesting story with the main (sorta) pairing. They just so happen to be gay and that’s EXACTLY how it should be And there’s a focus on mlm representation in it which isn’t really focused in many other shows (beside Kipo)

[@microwavegum]

It absolutely breaks my heart. Imagine all the incredible LGBTQAI+ media that might never see the light of day. I guess only the future will tell.

[@ExtremeWreck]

It has already happened quite a number of times. There probably are some that did see the light of day, but are now lost media & will be VERY hard to find!

[@checkered_egg]

i absolutely LOVE the owl house, but it definitely could have been developed better if they didn't cut the season. it's so disappointing having characters that represent your identity being policed like this because FINALLY i'm seeing people like me in cartoons only for the cartoons to get cancelled or restricted.